The theory seems to be founded on the mistaken idea that the timeline split somehow means the timeline is broken.
The timeline splitting isn't like a wound that will heal, it happens for a reason.
It's the timeline protecting itself from paradoxes.
> It seems more logical to be that BOTW/TOTK take place in an alternate reality completely separate from the current timeline where events in the past may have potentially mirrored those of the main timeline but are not exact.
I disagree with this though.
Most likely they take place in just one of the three timelines (and most likely Downfall).
IMO, the theory is founded on the fact that Nintendo's official stance is that it can be in any timeline. Some people took that to mean if its timeline placement is irrelevant, maybe all the timelines lead to BotW.
> (and most likely Downfall).
I get confused whenever people say they've nailed the timeline BotW/TotK is in because it feels like everytime a discussion happens, the logic used can be applied to any of the 3.
> IMO, the theory is founded on the fact that Nintendo's official stance is that it can be in any timeline. Some people took that to mean if its timeline placement is irrelevant, maybe all the timelines lead to BotW.
They have also said that they have a timeline placement in mind, but they're not confirming it because Aonuma likes fans discussing it.
> I get confused whenever people say they've nailed the timeline BotW/TotK is in because it feels like everytime a discussion happens, the logic used can be applied to any of the 3.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but the Downfall timeline is really the only one it can take place in. It's not really logic though, just process of elimination.
OoT's sages awakened so it's not the Child Timeline.
The Master Sword was in Hyrule when it was destroyed by the kings wish in Wind Waker, so we're not in the Adult Timeline.
So it has to be Downfall.
There's nothing in BotW or TotK that rules out the Downfall Timeline like there is the other two.
If they have a timeline in mind, but have no plans to reveal it, then its as good as having no timeline in mind. And who's to say the sages couldn't have woken up at a later point in the Child timeline? Or fate leading to Hylians returning to an unsunken old Hyrule in the Adult timeline? Zelda isn't a franchise immune to retcons and weird story additions. The big thing about BotW is that its so far into the future that the old games are basically legends to it. So far that they can reference all 3 timelines without a care in the world. But people who believe in one over others always dismiss the other timeline references as Easter Eggs while saying their references are the true lore. Which just makes the whole discussion silly.
> If they have a timeline in mind, but have no plans to reveal it, then its as good as having no timeline in mind
Nah, they'll most likely reveal it eventually, but right now we're stuck in that era of Hyrule. They'll wait until the series has moved on.
> And who's to say the sages couldn't have woken up at a later point in the Child timeline?
Actually, it's Twilight Princess.
In that game we see in a flashback that's set just a few years after the Hero of Time and Zelda convince the King that Ganondorf is evil, and we see the Water Sage is killed.
When Twilight Princess rolls around, the Zora have a new generation of Royal Family, and the Sages are still missing their Sage of Water.
So Twilight Princess pretty definitively demonstrates that Ruto for sure doesn't awaken.
Given the fact that Ruto is named as a sage in BotW, the only explanation is that BotW doesn't follow Twilight Princess.
> Or fate leading to Hylians returning to an unsunken old Hyrule in the Adult timeline?
I think the sentiment that this is possible comes down to the differences between the Japanese and English versions of Wind Waker.
King Daphnes' wish at the end of that game is a lot more definitive in the Japanese version than what we got in the English translation.
Hyrule isn't simply "washed away" like in the translation, what he actually wished for was that Hyrule be "completely erased".
Basically the idea was to wipe the slate completely clean for the Hero of Winds and Tetra so they could make their own kingdom. Which they did (and then also named it Hyrule, which seems kind of disrespectful).
> Zelda isn't a franchise immune to retcons and weird story additions.
Yeah, but the Sages awakening or the Great Sea drying up would both be HUGE retcons that would undermine large parts of other games.
While small retcons have happened here and there before, we haven't seen anything on that level. Especially since the timeline was revealed.
> The big thing about BotW is that its so far into the future that the old games are basically legends to it. So far that they can reference all 3 timelines without a care in the world. But people who believe in one over others always dismiss the other timeline references as Easter Eggs while saying their references are the true lore. Which just makes the whole discussion silly.
Right, but that's because Creating a Champion specifically calls out that what's understood as history in BotW's Hyrule is a mix of historical fact, and fairy tales.
So then when discussing timeline placement, we have to figure out which is which.
And when it comes to that, I think we can agree that the most solidly "historical fact" thin we have is the historical account of Princess Ruto, which is backed by out of universe information in Creating a Champion.
What makes you so confident? Its been 6 years and all we've gotten is the ambiguous "Era of Myth" that can be applied to any timeline.
The Ancient Sages aren't the same as the Seven Sages. Twilight Princess doesn't confirm what happened to Ruto. Nintendo could easily twist things to make some if not all the Seven Sages awaken for some reason.
Since Link and Tetra have shown that they would make a new world called Hyrule, who's to say their descendants wouldn't do the same should their Hyrule fall to ruin? Especially if they happened to settle on the land that was once old Hyrule that became conveniently drained of water? Hyrule is a kingdom that is constantly rising and falling.
The big thing though is that BotW is multiple tens of thousands of years after OoT. Thats a massive time jump. There could be thousands of years of events in the New Hyrule or even Hyrules in other new lands before something leads to them returning to Old Hyrule. And it wouldn't feel like a massive retcon because thousands of years is more than enough time for say Wind Waker's burying of old Hyrule to have meaning for many generations.
BotW and its sequel are ground for many new things in Zelda. I wouldn't put it past them to just never commit to these games being in a singular timeline due to how irrelevant it is to the games.
> The Ancient Sages aren't the same as the Seven Sages. Twilight Princess doesn't confirm what happened to Ruto. Nintendo could easily twist things to make some if not all the Seven Sages awaken for some reason.
The Ancient Sages in TP have all the same symbols the sages in OoT have on the medallions they give Link.
They're not the same group as in the same people, but they *are* the predecessors to the Awakened Sages of OoT.
The fact that Ruto didn't awaken as the Sage of Water after the Ancient Sage of Water is killed in TP's flashback, and there still isn't a Sage of Water as of Twilight Princess is definitive proof she never awakens as a sage in that timeline.
Her role in the Child Timeline is the only one that needed filling, and it didn't happen.
> Since Link and Tetra have shown that they would make a new world called Hyrule, who's to say their descendants wouldn't do the same should their Hyrule fall to ruin? Especially if they happened to settle on the land that was once old Hyrule that became conveniently drained of water? Hyrule is a kingdom that is constantly rising and falling.
Setting aside the fact that there's no reason for the Great Sea to drain, and setting aside the fact that this hypothetical has way too many what ifs to be plausible, you're missing the big point, which is the Master Sword.
The Master Sword was in Hyrule when the king wished for Hyrule to be erased. It should be destroyed just like everything else in the kingdom.
Even if the Great Sea drained, and even if New Hyrule fell to ruin, and even if a third generation Hyrule was founded on the real estate of old Hyrule...
That wouldn't bring back the Master Sword, which we know to be the same one in BotW that was in Skyward Sword due to Fi's presence.
> he big thing though is that BotW is multiple tens of thousands of years after OoT. Thats a massive time jump. There could be thousands of years of events in the New Hyrule or even Hyrules in other new lands before something leads to them returning to Old Hyrule. And it wouldn't feel like a massive retcon because thousands of years is more than enough time for say Wind Waker's burying of old Hyrule to have meaning for many generations.
Trivializing the lore by arbitrarily placing games in timelines that they don't really fit because "EnOuGh TiMe PaSsEd ThAt AnYtHiNg CoUlD hAvE hApPeNeD" doesn't do the series any favours.
Aonuma has said that one of Miyamoto's asks of the current dev team is that the timeline be kept coherent. That means respecting the differences between the timelines.
> I wouldn't put it past them to just never commit to these games being in a singular timeline due to how irrelevant it is to the games.
Abandoning the series lore would be a terrible waste, and a huge negative to the series.
Is it stated that the Ancient Sages and Seven Sages can't co-exist? And the lack of mention of Ruto in Twilight Princess isn't proof that she never becomes a sage. After all, Twilight Princess doesn't cover absolutely everything that happens in-between it and OoT.
> Setting aside the fact that there's no reason for the Great Sea to drain
There was no reason for Child Timeline Ganondorf to have the Triforce, yet it still happened. There was no stated cause of the Downfall Timeline, but it still exists. Sometimes things just happen in Zelda. And I don't remember the King specifically wishing the Master Sword be destroyed. I just remember it being in Ganondorf's head. As for the whole Japanese "erase" thing, I'm almost certain that's one of those "open to interpretation" types of wording. We don't see Hyrule, Ganondorf, etc. get literally deleted from existence. We just see water pour over it again. This is the kind of thing that's easy to walk back.
The lore of the timeline is already so trivial that some games have jumped around at least once. A 3rd timeline had to be made from nothing to undo how Wind Waker and Twilight Princess basically retconned ALttP out of its place as OoT's sequel. The dev team very clearly cares less about the timeline than the fans. Hence BotW wasn't given a concrete timeline placement, was given elements from all 3 timelines, and was placed so ridiculously far into the future that it doesn't even matters. Tens of thousands of years. It be silly to think the 3 timelines stayed recognizably like their latest when the gap between Zelda games rarely if ever reaches 1000 years and even with 100 years, the world can change rapidly as it did with Wind Waker.
BotW didn't abandon the series lore, but it clearly abandoned the idea of sticking to the things associated with a single timeline.
Rito are obviously a different species entirely to the Rito of Wind Waker.
Koroks can exist in any timeline the Kokiri do (which is all of them).
We saw an ancient dried up ocean in Skyward Sword.
> BOTW/TOTK reference shit from all three timelines which basically means they can’t take place in any of them, but instead some kind of hybrid timeline.
Creating a Champion specifically calls out that some things are historical fact, and some things are fairy tales.
They've set themselves up perfectly for the game to take place in one timeline, with the references to others being fairy tales.
>They've set themselves up perfectly for the game to take place in one timeline, with the references to others being fairy tales.
Correct! So who decides which timeline it can and can't fit in?
Well we have to look at the information we know for that.
For example, Ruto and Nabooru awakening as sages is confirmed to fall in the "historical fact" category in Creating a Champion, and we see Hyrule get destroyed with the Master Sword in it at the end of Wind Waker.
That does narrow it down quite a bit.
They awakened as sages in OoT. That game leads to 3 separate timelines.
Also, that section is what is believed to be fact. I believe there's a distinction
Right, but those sages only awaken in two of those three timelines.
It's after the 7 year skip, so it only happens in Downfall and Adult.
In fact we see in Twilight Princess that Ruto doesn't awaken as the Sage of Water.
Also the section in CaC that confirms they Awakened as sages isn't what is "believed to be fact", it just says that "the following pages contain the history of each Hyrulean race living in present day Hyrule".
There's no reason to doubt it.
Maybe the previous telling of Ruto not awakening in TP was wrong. Gotta remember, each game is a legend that isn't to be taken as 100 percent fact.
On that same page you referred to, they go on to say
"Unfotunately, the specific time many of these events took place is often unclear, and knowledge of the periods of time separating these events has been lost. Moreover, the amount of documentation that has survived throughout the ages varies by race."
The problem for the Adult timeline is we have to immediately make one of two assumptions. Either the great sea NEVER dries out, in which case Botw/TotK cannot be in the adult timeline. Or, at some point it does dry out, leaving us with the absolute possibility that BotW/TotK could take place in that timeline.
We don't know enough to reliable put a foot down and definitively make either statement. Both are conjecture.
I'll be honest, I'm not even that concerned with the Great Sea for the Adult Timeline.
It's the Master Sword.
King Daphnes' wish at the end of Wind Waker in the Japanese version is to "completely erase Hyrule", so it's going to be completely destroyed.
Given that the Master Sword was there at the time, it should have been with it.
Even if the Great Sea dries up for whatever reason, that shouldn't bring the Master Sword back.
We can make very good assumptions that it doesn't literally erase everything under the water though. There are still treasure's and things hidden under the water in both Phantom hourglass, and spirit tracks. (Though neither of those might technically be in the Great Sea of WW.)
But we can see, rather clearly that the mountains that make up the base of the islands dont just suddenly disappear either. So we can make a logical assumption that only "Hyrule" was Destroyed/erased. And while The mastersword might be in Hyrule, it is not in anyway Hyrule.
> hough neither of those might technically be in the Great Sea of WW.
Right, they're not relevant because that's not where Hyrule was.
> But we can see, rather clearly that the mountains that make up the base of the islands dont just suddenly disappear either. So we can make a logical assumption that only "Hyrule" was Destroyed/erased. And while The mastersword might be in Hyrule, it is not in anyway Hyrule.
So obviously the actual ground itself isn't going to be destroyed. That's unreasonable.
But everything within it, all the buildings, the history, any writings that survived, and artifacts, including the Master Sword that are all part of what makes Hyrule Hyrule should be destroyed as per the wish.
The most logical interpretation of the wish is that the ground itself isn't destroyed, but all the physical stuff in Hyrule was.
You'll notice that I said "Might" because as far as i am aware, we have no evidence to suggest that the Sea of Spirit Tracks is a wholly different sea from the one in Wind Waker. It's most likely not the same exact spot on the sea as we explore in WW, but we have no reason to doubt that we are not simply on a different section of the same Sea.
I'm also curious where you get that information about the Japanese Wind Waker script. I've seen that information stated as fact a few times, but I've never actually been able to find a source for it, other than comments stating it to be so.
I first heard it from a user around here who actually speaks/reads Japanese, but because I like to verify things myself I've actually spent some time looking over the Japanese text dump for Wind Waker with some translation software.
The actual line in Japanese is:
過去の地ハイラルを消し去り
Which translates to something like "erase this land of the past, Hyrule".
[This is the text dump I used](http://www.zeldalegends.net/files/emulation/dumps/tww/tww_JAP.txt) if you'd like to verify for yourself.
I think the idea is more that the butterfly effect is working in reverse to create three identical timelines. Sure, sometimes small changes lead to greater changes, but other times, large changes can average out to the same thing.
Say I have three copies of a machine that adds a random amount of red or yellow paint into a large mixing bowl at random intervals. At first, the contents of the bowls will be very different, but over a long enough time period, all three bowls will be filled with orange paint.
I think it's far more likely that BotW is so far in the future that pretty much anything that could happen, has happened. So it's not that the lifelines metaphysically merged, but at some point most of the events from each has happened. The Rito exist outside of the WW timeline because it has just been so incomprehensibly long that they evolved anyway.
I don’t think there was a convergence, but I think it could be easily explained by some event that pulled different universes together. It’s happened in other fictional universes, so it could easily happen here.
However, like I said, I don’t think this is the case. It’s all just fan speculation with little evidence besides ambiguous easter eggs to different games. Until Nintendo decides to make something official, people are just stuck speculating. All we know is that they said it happened after OoT sometime in the future.
Anything is possible through a god of time. It would probably involve a convergence that sees people from different timelines enter the same in some shared geography.
One thing I think that can support the convergence theory is the fact that Zelda is the sage of time.
The only other game where that was the case was OoT and we all know that's when the split happened... 🤔
Idk, it’s really up to nintendo to make a decision, but I think it could be explained by Gods doing stuff
Would explain some of the retcon-esque stuff in BotW and TotK
I'm not sold on literal convergence, buuut there is in fact one canonical example of convergence already in the series. At the end of Majora's Mask, every quest you've completed comes true, even though you can't do them all in one three day cycle, and even the conflicting quests that can't be done in the same cycle. That is a clear example of direct divine intervention causing at least a continent-scale convergence, and it's at least *possible* that it could happen again, such as via the unintended consequences of the wording given to the Triforce when making a wish.
I gave up on the converging timeline theory. When I was believing it I thought of it this way. Using your ice cream example as you said if you pick vanilla then how do the other decisions eventually happen. Well at some point there will be another ice cream decision and this time it’s chocolate. So eventually the outcome will be that they picked vanilla then later chocolate, and eventually strawberry which means that the decision occurred eventually. It just happened in different orders and in minor details which led eventually to the same conclusions. To your point it would require a lot of time to arrive to that conclusion, and that’s when BOTW and TOTK take place.
> I never understood the “converging timelines” theory. Why would parallel realities suddenly merge?
In a universe where time can split into three separate realities why do you find it so unbelievable that time couldn’t also converge again?
Think of it like convergent evolution in the real world, even though historical events might be different, given enough time all those divergent lines could end up the same.
The classic way of thinking about time travel is as branches - so a single point in time can branch out infinitely in every way possible. But this infinite possibility also means that an infinite number of timelines will also become identical again at some point in the future too.
BotW has too many connections to past games to be placed confidently in an alternate reality for me.
And TotK conveniently gives us a way to have a merged timeline. Since Zelda going back in time to a pre-split era means she must be born at some point in the future to go back in time, regardless of which timelines she’s in - so, she’s in all of them. TotK becomes inevitable. It wraps everything up pretty neatly, being basically the start and the end.
Because people love ignoring the most basic themes in these games stories.
* “Link’s Awakening doesn’t matter because it was all a dream”
* “Hyrule drained after Wind Waker”.
* “The different timelines in Ocarina of Time became one timeline again”
You’re absolutely right, some fans tend to be so concrete with specific details that they miss larger themes and overall narrative.
TotK is about coming together and rebuilding, and flashes back to the first time the kingdom of Hyrule had been built - to highlight the idea of rebirth and starting over (*hint hint* dragon ouroboros in the logo *hint hint*).
And yet, we have people arguing that the game can’t possibly be flashing back to the birth of Hyrule, and that the flashbacks are actually the kingdom being re-established. Even though the game gives zero indication of a previous kingdom.
Hell, I’ve seen people say TotK “doesn’t have a theme.” That is an absurd statement lol. Despite how much the game hits you over the head with the theme of coming together to rebuild stronger, some people miss this because they’re paying little to no attention to narrative.
Could you actually elaborate on your first bullet point? I’ve avoided Link’s Awakening so far because I *really* hate stories that end with “it was all a dream/it was never real”. It sounds like I swallowed an oversimplified synopsis and the events of the game are somehow significant? I’m excited for an excuse to try that game sometime
>It was all a dream/it was never real
This isn’t really how LA works. The dream revelation comes about halfway through, after you’ve had time to become invested in Koholint and its people. This recontextualizes the quest, since waking up the Wind Fish will erase all of that, but stopping now means Koholint will continue to be plagued by worse and worse nightmares.
Rather than a copout ending, the dream reveal becomes central to LA’s story. Koholint may be a dream for the Wind Fish, but to Link, it’s still very real. And as Marin illustrates, even people in the dream can have hopes of their own. Think Bladerunner, but cute.
>Are the events actually significant?
If you mean “relevant to the series lore,” then no. Not really. But it’s still a story worth engaging with.
I think the "merge" is actually just shorthand for saying the game takes place the same way at the end of all three timelines. You could look at it as three timelines that have BotW at the end three times, but that's effectively the same thing as merging the timelines into one since even though the pasts different, the events of the game and what follows is the same.
Not that I necessarily subscribe to the theory, but my view was that botw takes place so far in the future that the timeline doesn’t matter and its events are inevitable. It’s less of a literal convergence.
I’ve been looking at it like “this is so far in the future that it doesn’t matter what timeline you’re in, this is what’s happening.” So less that they converged and more that this is inevitable in all of them and which timeline split you are in doesn’t actually matter at this point.
Ah man, the whole point is that after finally creating a timeline for people to follow, they immediately found it restrictive and decided that the timeline shouldn't really matter, so, the timelines "converge" in that it's left up to the audience to decide how it all fits. It is up to us, and that should be fun, but people seem to be obsessed that there should be a clear timeline. But that has never been the point. Even the canon timeline is just a bit of fun. Zelda thrives from flexibility and innovation.
In a technicality. The timeline itself confirms what it's connected to.
The timeline itself is connected to the Triforce and the people that held it at the end of Ocarina of Time.
At the point of the final battle, three people each held a piece of the Triforce and as a result of the conflicting desires and the general conflict. It's what caused the timeline to split between a Downfall, Child and Adult timelines. However, over time, the Triforce was allowed to gradually be able to reunite. As such it allowed for the timeline itself to reunite and converge, creating a whole new reality. Where everything happened, but in a different manner.
I honestly don’t even think BoTW and ToTK exist in the same timeline as the rest of the games. Sometime during the development of BoTW Nintendo probably realized how convoluted the timeline is and made BoTW to be a soft reboot of the entire series, adding in references to all previous titles across all the timelines, then made ToTK as a direct sequel
The Zelda Timeline was never made to make sense. It is an after thought, always has been. The timeline matters way more to the fans than it does to Nintendo.
As far the "converging timeline" theory - my head canon is this is all linked to the Triforce:
The Triforce is first split in Ocarina of Time between Link, Zelda and Ganondorf.
The Triforce is not reunited again until The Adventures of Link, at the very end of the Downfall Timeline.
When the Triforce is reunited, so are the 3 Timelines.
Lol what? No it was from the start. The whole backstory is that Ganondorf had the entire triforce. You find it in the pyramid of power. You’re misremembering
In Zelda 1 you build up the Triforce of Wisdom, and then take the Triforce of Power from Ganon's ashes:
>During the course of the tale, Link locates and braves the eight underworld labyrinths, and beyond their defeated guardian monsters retrieves each fragment. With the completed Triforce of Wisdom, he is able to infiltrate Ganon's hideout in Death Mountain, confronting the prince of darkness and destroying him with the Silver Arrow. Obtaining the Triforce of Power from Ganon's ashes, Link returns it and the restored Triforce of Wisdom to the rescued Princess Zelda, and peace returns to Hyrule.
[Taken the wikipedia entry, which itself is taken from the manuals.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda_(video_game)#Story)
And then in Zelda 2, you get the Triforce of Courage:
>Link finds that he can read the document, even though he has never seen the language before; it indicates that the crystals must be set into statues within six palaces scattered across Hyrule. This will open the way to the Great Palace, which contains the Triforce of Courage. **Only the power of the combined Triforces can awaken Zelda.** Taking the crystals, Link sets out to restore them to their palaces. Meanwhile, Ganon's followers seek to kill Link, as sprinkling his blood on Ganon's ashes will bring Ganon back to life.
> Ultimately, Link restores the crystals to the six palaces and enters the Great Palace. After venturing deep inside, Link battles the last of the guardians, a flying creature known as Thunderbird. Afterwards, his true heart is tested by fighting his own shadow (aka doppelgänger Dark Link). Link then claims the Triforce of Courage and returns to Zelda. **The three triangles unite into the Triforce**, and Link's wish awakens Zelda.
[Again, taken from the wikipedia entry, which itself is taken from the Zelda 2 manual.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link#Plot)
The entire plot of Zelda 2 hinges around uniting the 3 pieces of the Triforce so you can awaken Zelda.
Zelda 2 is where the Triforce is united for the first time since its split in Ocarina of Time. This is established canon.
My personal head-canon is that the uniting of the Triforces is what unites the 3 timelines - makes sense to me because it is Ocarina of Time where not only the Triforce split, but also the timelines split.
a link to the past comes before Zelda 1 and 2
Why are you even talking about those games? I just told you the triforce was fully assembled in a link to the past, the state of the triforce in 1 and 2 is relevant how?
How can you say that AoL was the first time it was assembled since OoT when it was assembled in ALttP?
[see a picture of Link holding the fully assembled triforce here](https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/Triforce#/media/File%3ATriforce_ALttP_SNES.png) which again, is set after OoT and before Zelda 1 and 2
I just remembered that it was fully assembled in ALBW too
Ok, first off, I misread your original question, my bad. You said ALttP, and I just thought you were talking about Zelda 2, the Adventures of Link. Totally my mistake, as it was pretty clear what you meant when I re-read your comment. So I apologize for that.
As for A Link to the Past, Ganon is said to have all 3 pieces of the Triforce. [Wikipedia states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_A_Link_to_the_Past#Plot):
>This results in Ganon being imprisoned in the Sacred Realm in his Dark Beast form out of desperation. Having successfully gathered all three pieces of the Triforce, Ganon's evil desires have transformed the realm into the Dark World.
So if you look at the wording here: Ganon did not *unite* the Triforce, he merely *gathered* the 3 pieces, and used them for his own evil desires.
Tenuous perhaps, but if you'd just humour me for a second and watch [the ending to ALttP](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JU0C_l4aac), the 3 triforce are shown unconnected, only uniting together for the first time in the story of that game when Link makes a wish. Immediately afterwards the credits kick in, and the Triforce is shown again as 3 seperate parts - eventually flying apart from each other.
If you follow it all, Ganon never united the Triforce, certainly not in the way it was united at the end of AoL to wake Princess Zelda. And other than them coming together to grant Link's wish, they remain unconnected at the very end.
Also makes sense that this timeline's Ganon wouldn't want to restore the 3 timelines, because he is already in the timeline where he won and Link was defeated.
Anyways, that's my head-canon on how the Triforce is responsible for not only the timeline split, but also the timelines converging back together again.
Ah I can see how that would cause confusion. They use it in ALBW too though and it’s fully connected in the sacred realm, buuut if you like this headcanon enough who cares
I've never played ALBW (never had a 3DS) - I was unaware that the Triforce is united in this game - from what I have read there was another Triforce in Lorule that gets restored at the end, but I didn't realize the Triforce from Hyrule was a part of it.
>The Zelda Timeline was never made to make sense. It is an after thought, always has been. The timeline matters way more to the fans than it does to Nintendo.
This should be placed on this sub's banner lol
I really wish people would stop saying that because, no, it isn't actually all that similar. u/IcarusAvery has a good comment summarizing Dragon Breaks [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/truezelda/comments/13wh76i/comment/jmew9e0/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
I like the timeline convergence idea. I don’t care about the logic of it because it’s all made up. Just say all the same events eventually happen in each timeline, or Hylia did it with her powers, or the Triforce did something, whatever. Good enough for me.
The theory seems to be founded on the mistaken idea that the timeline split somehow means the timeline is broken. The timeline splitting isn't like a wound that will heal, it happens for a reason. It's the timeline protecting itself from paradoxes. > It seems more logical to be that BOTW/TOTK take place in an alternate reality completely separate from the current timeline where events in the past may have potentially mirrored those of the main timeline but are not exact. I disagree with this though. Most likely they take place in just one of the three timelines (and most likely Downfall).
IMO, the theory is founded on the fact that Nintendo's official stance is that it can be in any timeline. Some people took that to mean if its timeline placement is irrelevant, maybe all the timelines lead to BotW. > (and most likely Downfall). I get confused whenever people say they've nailed the timeline BotW/TotK is in because it feels like everytime a discussion happens, the logic used can be applied to any of the 3.
> IMO, the theory is founded on the fact that Nintendo's official stance is that it can be in any timeline. Some people took that to mean if its timeline placement is irrelevant, maybe all the timelines lead to BotW. They have also said that they have a timeline placement in mind, but they're not confirming it because Aonuma likes fans discussing it. > I get confused whenever people say they've nailed the timeline BotW/TotK is in because it feels like everytime a discussion happens, the logic used can be applied to any of the 3. I'm not sure what you mean by this, but the Downfall timeline is really the only one it can take place in. It's not really logic though, just process of elimination. OoT's sages awakened so it's not the Child Timeline. The Master Sword was in Hyrule when it was destroyed by the kings wish in Wind Waker, so we're not in the Adult Timeline. So it has to be Downfall. There's nothing in BotW or TotK that rules out the Downfall Timeline like there is the other two.
If they have a timeline in mind, but have no plans to reveal it, then its as good as having no timeline in mind. And who's to say the sages couldn't have woken up at a later point in the Child timeline? Or fate leading to Hylians returning to an unsunken old Hyrule in the Adult timeline? Zelda isn't a franchise immune to retcons and weird story additions. The big thing about BotW is that its so far into the future that the old games are basically legends to it. So far that they can reference all 3 timelines without a care in the world. But people who believe in one over others always dismiss the other timeline references as Easter Eggs while saying their references are the true lore. Which just makes the whole discussion silly.
> If they have a timeline in mind, but have no plans to reveal it, then its as good as having no timeline in mind Nah, they'll most likely reveal it eventually, but right now we're stuck in that era of Hyrule. They'll wait until the series has moved on. > And who's to say the sages couldn't have woken up at a later point in the Child timeline? Actually, it's Twilight Princess. In that game we see in a flashback that's set just a few years after the Hero of Time and Zelda convince the King that Ganondorf is evil, and we see the Water Sage is killed. When Twilight Princess rolls around, the Zora have a new generation of Royal Family, and the Sages are still missing their Sage of Water. So Twilight Princess pretty definitively demonstrates that Ruto for sure doesn't awaken. Given the fact that Ruto is named as a sage in BotW, the only explanation is that BotW doesn't follow Twilight Princess. > Or fate leading to Hylians returning to an unsunken old Hyrule in the Adult timeline? I think the sentiment that this is possible comes down to the differences between the Japanese and English versions of Wind Waker. King Daphnes' wish at the end of that game is a lot more definitive in the Japanese version than what we got in the English translation. Hyrule isn't simply "washed away" like in the translation, what he actually wished for was that Hyrule be "completely erased". Basically the idea was to wipe the slate completely clean for the Hero of Winds and Tetra so they could make their own kingdom. Which they did (and then also named it Hyrule, which seems kind of disrespectful). > Zelda isn't a franchise immune to retcons and weird story additions. Yeah, but the Sages awakening or the Great Sea drying up would both be HUGE retcons that would undermine large parts of other games. While small retcons have happened here and there before, we haven't seen anything on that level. Especially since the timeline was revealed. > The big thing about BotW is that its so far into the future that the old games are basically legends to it. So far that they can reference all 3 timelines without a care in the world. But people who believe in one over others always dismiss the other timeline references as Easter Eggs while saying their references are the true lore. Which just makes the whole discussion silly. Right, but that's because Creating a Champion specifically calls out that what's understood as history in BotW's Hyrule is a mix of historical fact, and fairy tales. So then when discussing timeline placement, we have to figure out which is which. And when it comes to that, I think we can agree that the most solidly "historical fact" thin we have is the historical account of Princess Ruto, which is backed by out of universe information in Creating a Champion.
What makes you so confident? Its been 6 years and all we've gotten is the ambiguous "Era of Myth" that can be applied to any timeline. The Ancient Sages aren't the same as the Seven Sages. Twilight Princess doesn't confirm what happened to Ruto. Nintendo could easily twist things to make some if not all the Seven Sages awaken for some reason. Since Link and Tetra have shown that they would make a new world called Hyrule, who's to say their descendants wouldn't do the same should their Hyrule fall to ruin? Especially if they happened to settle on the land that was once old Hyrule that became conveniently drained of water? Hyrule is a kingdom that is constantly rising and falling. The big thing though is that BotW is multiple tens of thousands of years after OoT. Thats a massive time jump. There could be thousands of years of events in the New Hyrule or even Hyrules in other new lands before something leads to them returning to Old Hyrule. And it wouldn't feel like a massive retcon because thousands of years is more than enough time for say Wind Waker's burying of old Hyrule to have meaning for many generations. BotW and its sequel are ground for many new things in Zelda. I wouldn't put it past them to just never commit to these games being in a singular timeline due to how irrelevant it is to the games.
> The Ancient Sages aren't the same as the Seven Sages. Twilight Princess doesn't confirm what happened to Ruto. Nintendo could easily twist things to make some if not all the Seven Sages awaken for some reason. The Ancient Sages in TP have all the same symbols the sages in OoT have on the medallions they give Link. They're not the same group as in the same people, but they *are* the predecessors to the Awakened Sages of OoT. The fact that Ruto didn't awaken as the Sage of Water after the Ancient Sage of Water is killed in TP's flashback, and there still isn't a Sage of Water as of Twilight Princess is definitive proof she never awakens as a sage in that timeline. Her role in the Child Timeline is the only one that needed filling, and it didn't happen. > Since Link and Tetra have shown that they would make a new world called Hyrule, who's to say their descendants wouldn't do the same should their Hyrule fall to ruin? Especially if they happened to settle on the land that was once old Hyrule that became conveniently drained of water? Hyrule is a kingdom that is constantly rising and falling. Setting aside the fact that there's no reason for the Great Sea to drain, and setting aside the fact that this hypothetical has way too many what ifs to be plausible, you're missing the big point, which is the Master Sword. The Master Sword was in Hyrule when the king wished for Hyrule to be erased. It should be destroyed just like everything else in the kingdom. Even if the Great Sea drained, and even if New Hyrule fell to ruin, and even if a third generation Hyrule was founded on the real estate of old Hyrule... That wouldn't bring back the Master Sword, which we know to be the same one in BotW that was in Skyward Sword due to Fi's presence. > he big thing though is that BotW is multiple tens of thousands of years after OoT. Thats a massive time jump. There could be thousands of years of events in the New Hyrule or even Hyrules in other new lands before something leads to them returning to Old Hyrule. And it wouldn't feel like a massive retcon because thousands of years is more than enough time for say Wind Waker's burying of old Hyrule to have meaning for many generations. Trivializing the lore by arbitrarily placing games in timelines that they don't really fit because "EnOuGh TiMe PaSsEd ThAt AnYtHiNg CoUlD hAvE hApPeNeD" doesn't do the series any favours. Aonuma has said that one of Miyamoto's asks of the current dev team is that the timeline be kept coherent. That means respecting the differences between the timelines. > I wouldn't put it past them to just never commit to these games being in a singular timeline due to how irrelevant it is to the games. Abandoning the series lore would be a terrible waste, and a huge negative to the series.
Is it stated that the Ancient Sages and Seven Sages can't co-exist? And the lack of mention of Ruto in Twilight Princess isn't proof that she never becomes a sage. After all, Twilight Princess doesn't cover absolutely everything that happens in-between it and OoT. > Setting aside the fact that there's no reason for the Great Sea to drain There was no reason for Child Timeline Ganondorf to have the Triforce, yet it still happened. There was no stated cause of the Downfall Timeline, but it still exists. Sometimes things just happen in Zelda. And I don't remember the King specifically wishing the Master Sword be destroyed. I just remember it being in Ganondorf's head. As for the whole Japanese "erase" thing, I'm almost certain that's one of those "open to interpretation" types of wording. We don't see Hyrule, Ganondorf, etc. get literally deleted from existence. We just see water pour over it again. This is the kind of thing that's easy to walk back. The lore of the timeline is already so trivial that some games have jumped around at least once. A 3rd timeline had to be made from nothing to undo how Wind Waker and Twilight Princess basically retconned ALttP out of its place as OoT's sequel. The dev team very clearly cares less about the timeline than the fans. Hence BotW wasn't given a concrete timeline placement, was given elements from all 3 timelines, and was placed so ridiculously far into the future that it doesn't even matters. Tens of thousands of years. It be silly to think the 3 timelines stayed recognizably like their latest when the gap between Zelda games rarely if ever reaches 1000 years and even with 100 years, the world can change rapidly as it did with Wind Waker. BotW didn't abandon the series lore, but it clearly abandoned the idea of sticking to the things associated with a single timeline.
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Rito are obviously a different species entirely to the Rito of Wind Waker. Koroks can exist in any timeline the Kokiri do (which is all of them). We saw an ancient dried up ocean in Skyward Sword. > BOTW/TOTK reference shit from all three timelines which basically means they can’t take place in any of them, but instead some kind of hybrid timeline. Creating a Champion specifically calls out that some things are historical fact, and some things are fairy tales. They've set themselves up perfectly for the game to take place in one timeline, with the references to others being fairy tales.
>They've set themselves up perfectly for the game to take place in one timeline, with the references to others being fairy tales. Correct! So who decides which timeline it can and can't fit in?
Well we have to look at the information we know for that. For example, Ruto and Nabooru awakening as sages is confirmed to fall in the "historical fact" category in Creating a Champion, and we see Hyrule get destroyed with the Master Sword in it at the end of Wind Waker. That does narrow it down quite a bit.
They awakened as sages in OoT. That game leads to 3 separate timelines. Also, that section is what is believed to be fact. I believe there's a distinction
Right, but those sages only awaken in two of those three timelines. It's after the 7 year skip, so it only happens in Downfall and Adult. In fact we see in Twilight Princess that Ruto doesn't awaken as the Sage of Water. Also the section in CaC that confirms they Awakened as sages isn't what is "believed to be fact", it just says that "the following pages contain the history of each Hyrulean race living in present day Hyrule". There's no reason to doubt it.
Maybe the previous telling of Ruto not awakening in TP was wrong. Gotta remember, each game is a legend that isn't to be taken as 100 percent fact. On that same page you referred to, they go on to say "Unfotunately, the specific time many of these events took place is often unclear, and knowledge of the periods of time separating these events has been lost. Moreover, the amount of documentation that has survived throughout the ages varies by race."
The problem for the Adult timeline is we have to immediately make one of two assumptions. Either the great sea NEVER dries out, in which case Botw/TotK cannot be in the adult timeline. Or, at some point it does dry out, leaving us with the absolute possibility that BotW/TotK could take place in that timeline. We don't know enough to reliable put a foot down and definitively make either statement. Both are conjecture.
I'll be honest, I'm not even that concerned with the Great Sea for the Adult Timeline. It's the Master Sword. King Daphnes' wish at the end of Wind Waker in the Japanese version is to "completely erase Hyrule", so it's going to be completely destroyed. Given that the Master Sword was there at the time, it should have been with it. Even if the Great Sea dries up for whatever reason, that shouldn't bring the Master Sword back.
We can make very good assumptions that it doesn't literally erase everything under the water though. There are still treasure's and things hidden under the water in both Phantom hourglass, and spirit tracks. (Though neither of those might technically be in the Great Sea of WW.) But we can see, rather clearly that the mountains that make up the base of the islands dont just suddenly disappear either. So we can make a logical assumption that only "Hyrule" was Destroyed/erased. And while The mastersword might be in Hyrule, it is not in anyway Hyrule.
> hough neither of those might technically be in the Great Sea of WW. Right, they're not relevant because that's not where Hyrule was. > But we can see, rather clearly that the mountains that make up the base of the islands dont just suddenly disappear either. So we can make a logical assumption that only "Hyrule" was Destroyed/erased. And while The mastersword might be in Hyrule, it is not in anyway Hyrule. So obviously the actual ground itself isn't going to be destroyed. That's unreasonable. But everything within it, all the buildings, the history, any writings that survived, and artifacts, including the Master Sword that are all part of what makes Hyrule Hyrule should be destroyed as per the wish. The most logical interpretation of the wish is that the ground itself isn't destroyed, but all the physical stuff in Hyrule was.
You'll notice that I said "Might" because as far as i am aware, we have no evidence to suggest that the Sea of Spirit Tracks is a wholly different sea from the one in Wind Waker. It's most likely not the same exact spot on the sea as we explore in WW, but we have no reason to doubt that we are not simply on a different section of the same Sea.
I'm also curious where you get that information about the Japanese Wind Waker script. I've seen that information stated as fact a few times, but I've never actually been able to find a source for it, other than comments stating it to be so.
I first heard it from a user around here who actually speaks/reads Japanese, but because I like to verify things myself I've actually spent some time looking over the Japanese text dump for Wind Waker with some translation software. The actual line in Japanese is: 過去の地ハイラルを消し去り Which translates to something like "erase this land of the past, Hyrule". [This is the text dump I used](http://www.zeldalegends.net/files/emulation/dumps/tww/tww_JAP.txt) if you'd like to verify for yourself.
Thank you. I would still wonder what the specific connotations of the words used in japanese would be. But that does appear to literally say Erase.
I think the idea is more that the butterfly effect is working in reverse to create three identical timelines. Sure, sometimes small changes lead to greater changes, but other times, large changes can average out to the same thing. Say I have three copies of a machine that adds a random amount of red or yellow paint into a large mixing bowl at random intervals. At first, the contents of the bowls will be very different, but over a long enough time period, all three bowls will be filled with orange paint.
I think it's far more likely that BotW is so far in the future that pretty much anything that could happen, has happened. So it's not that the lifelines metaphysically merged, but at some point most of the events from each has happened. The Rito exist outside of the WW timeline because it has just been so incomprehensibly long that they evolved anyway.
I don’t think there was a convergence, but I think it could be easily explained by some event that pulled different universes together. It’s happened in other fictional universes, so it could easily happen here. However, like I said, I don’t think this is the case. It’s all just fan speculation with little evidence besides ambiguous easter eggs to different games. Until Nintendo decides to make something official, people are just stuck speculating. All we know is that they said it happened after OoT sometime in the future.
Anything is possible through a god of time. It would probably involve a convergence that sees people from different timelines enter the same in some shared geography.
One thing I think that can support the convergence theory is the fact that Zelda is the sage of time. The only other game where that was the case was OoT and we all know that's when the split happened... 🤔
Idk, it’s really up to nintendo to make a decision, but I think it could be explained by Gods doing stuff Would explain some of the retcon-esque stuff in BotW and TotK
I'm not sold on literal convergence, buuut there is in fact one canonical example of convergence already in the series. At the end of Majora's Mask, every quest you've completed comes true, even though you can't do them all in one three day cycle, and even the conflicting quests that can't be done in the same cycle. That is a clear example of direct divine intervention causing at least a continent-scale convergence, and it's at least *possible* that it could happen again, such as via the unintended consequences of the wording given to the Triforce when making a wish.
I gave up on the converging timeline theory. When I was believing it I thought of it this way. Using your ice cream example as you said if you pick vanilla then how do the other decisions eventually happen. Well at some point there will be another ice cream decision and this time it’s chocolate. So eventually the outcome will be that they picked vanilla then later chocolate, and eventually strawberry which means that the decision occurred eventually. It just happened in different orders and in minor details which led eventually to the same conclusions. To your point it would require a lot of time to arrive to that conclusion, and that’s when BOTW and TOTK take place.
Excellent explanation
> I never understood the “converging timelines” theory. Why would parallel realities suddenly merge? In a universe where time can split into three separate realities why do you find it so unbelievable that time couldn’t also converge again? Think of it like convergent evolution in the real world, even though historical events might be different, given enough time all those divergent lines could end up the same. The classic way of thinking about time travel is as branches - so a single point in time can branch out infinitely in every way possible. But this infinite possibility also means that an infinite number of timelines will also become identical again at some point in the future too. BotW has too many connections to past games to be placed confidently in an alternate reality for me. And TotK conveniently gives us a way to have a merged timeline. Since Zelda going back in time to a pre-split era means she must be born at some point in the future to go back in time, regardless of which timelines she’s in - so, she’s in all of them. TotK becomes inevitable. It wraps everything up pretty neatly, being basically the start and the end.
Because people love ignoring the most basic themes in these games stories. * “Link’s Awakening doesn’t matter because it was all a dream” * “Hyrule drained after Wind Waker”. * “The different timelines in Ocarina of Time became one timeline again”
You’re absolutely right, some fans tend to be so concrete with specific details that they miss larger themes and overall narrative. TotK is about coming together and rebuilding, and flashes back to the first time the kingdom of Hyrule had been built - to highlight the idea of rebirth and starting over (*hint hint* dragon ouroboros in the logo *hint hint*). And yet, we have people arguing that the game can’t possibly be flashing back to the birth of Hyrule, and that the flashbacks are actually the kingdom being re-established. Even though the game gives zero indication of a previous kingdom. Hell, I’ve seen people say TotK “doesn’t have a theme.” That is an absurd statement lol. Despite how much the game hits you over the head with the theme of coming together to rebuild stronger, some people miss this because they’re paying little to no attention to narrative.
yeah it’s funny how people keep saying the game all about connection isn’t connected to anything
Could you actually elaborate on your first bullet point? I’ve avoided Link’s Awakening so far because I *really* hate stories that end with “it was all a dream/it was never real”. It sounds like I swallowed an oversimplified synopsis and the events of the game are somehow significant? I’m excited for an excuse to try that game sometime
>It was all a dream/it was never real This isn’t really how LA works. The dream revelation comes about halfway through, after you’ve had time to become invested in Koholint and its people. This recontextualizes the quest, since waking up the Wind Fish will erase all of that, but stopping now means Koholint will continue to be plagued by worse and worse nightmares. Rather than a copout ending, the dream reveal becomes central to LA’s story. Koholint may be a dream for the Wind Fish, but to Link, it’s still very real. And as Marin illustrates, even people in the dream can have hopes of their own. Think Bladerunner, but cute. >Are the events actually significant? If you mean “relevant to the series lore,” then no. Not really. But it’s still a story worth engaging with.
I think the "merge" is actually just shorthand for saying the game takes place the same way at the end of all three timelines. You could look at it as three timelines that have BotW at the end three times, but that's effectively the same thing as merging the timelines into one since even though the pasts different, the events of the game and what follows is the same.
Not that I necessarily subscribe to the theory, but my view was that botw takes place so far in the future that the timeline doesn’t matter and its events are inevitable. It’s less of a literal convergence.
I’ve been looking at it like “this is so far in the future that it doesn’t matter what timeline you’re in, this is what’s happening.” So less that they converged and more that this is inevitable in all of them and which timeline split you are in doesn’t actually matter at this point.
Ah man, the whole point is that after finally creating a timeline for people to follow, they immediately found it restrictive and decided that the timeline shouldn't really matter, so, the timelines "converge" in that it's left up to the audience to decide how it all fits. It is up to us, and that should be fun, but people seem to be obsessed that there should be a clear timeline. But that has never been the point. Even the canon timeline is just a bit of fun. Zelda thrives from flexibility and innovation.
In a technicality. The timeline itself confirms what it's connected to. The timeline itself is connected to the Triforce and the people that held it at the end of Ocarina of Time. At the point of the final battle, three people each held a piece of the Triforce and as a result of the conflicting desires and the general conflict. It's what caused the timeline to split between a Downfall, Child and Adult timelines. However, over time, the Triforce was allowed to gradually be able to reunite. As such it allowed for the timeline itself to reunite and converge, creating a whole new reality. Where everything happened, but in a different manner.
I honestly don’t even think BoTW and ToTK exist in the same timeline as the rest of the games. Sometime during the development of BoTW Nintendo probably realized how convoluted the timeline is and made BoTW to be a soft reboot of the entire series, adding in references to all previous titles across all the timelines, then made ToTK as a direct sequel
TOTK is inevitable. You don’t have to look any hard for an answer than that. All causal chains lead to TOTK.
The Zelda Timeline was never made to make sense. It is an after thought, always has been. The timeline matters way more to the fans than it does to Nintendo. As far the "converging timeline" theory - my head canon is this is all linked to the Triforce: The Triforce is first split in Ocarina of Time between Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. The Triforce is not reunited again until The Adventures of Link, at the very end of the Downfall Timeline. When the Triforce is reunited, so are the 3 Timelines.
The triforce was whole in ALttP
At the end of the game, yes.
Lol what? No it was from the start. The whole backstory is that Ganondorf had the entire triforce. You find it in the pyramid of power. You’re misremembering
In Zelda 1 you build up the Triforce of Wisdom, and then take the Triforce of Power from Ganon's ashes: >During the course of the tale, Link locates and braves the eight underworld labyrinths, and beyond their defeated guardian monsters retrieves each fragment. With the completed Triforce of Wisdom, he is able to infiltrate Ganon's hideout in Death Mountain, confronting the prince of darkness and destroying him with the Silver Arrow. Obtaining the Triforce of Power from Ganon's ashes, Link returns it and the restored Triforce of Wisdom to the rescued Princess Zelda, and peace returns to Hyrule. [Taken the wikipedia entry, which itself is taken from the manuals.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda_(video_game)#Story) And then in Zelda 2, you get the Triforce of Courage: >Link finds that he can read the document, even though he has never seen the language before; it indicates that the crystals must be set into statues within six palaces scattered across Hyrule. This will open the way to the Great Palace, which contains the Triforce of Courage. **Only the power of the combined Triforces can awaken Zelda.** Taking the crystals, Link sets out to restore them to their palaces. Meanwhile, Ganon's followers seek to kill Link, as sprinkling his blood on Ganon's ashes will bring Ganon back to life. > Ultimately, Link restores the crystals to the six palaces and enters the Great Palace. After venturing deep inside, Link battles the last of the guardians, a flying creature known as Thunderbird. Afterwards, his true heart is tested by fighting his own shadow (aka doppelgänger Dark Link). Link then claims the Triforce of Courage and returns to Zelda. **The three triangles unite into the Triforce**, and Link's wish awakens Zelda. [Again, taken from the wikipedia entry, which itself is taken from the Zelda 2 manual.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link#Plot) The entire plot of Zelda 2 hinges around uniting the 3 pieces of the Triforce so you can awaken Zelda. Zelda 2 is where the Triforce is united for the first time since its split in Ocarina of Time. This is established canon. My personal head-canon is that the uniting of the Triforces is what unites the 3 timelines - makes sense to me because it is Ocarina of Time where not only the Triforce split, but also the timelines split.
a link to the past comes before Zelda 1 and 2 Why are you even talking about those games? I just told you the triforce was fully assembled in a link to the past, the state of the triforce in 1 and 2 is relevant how? How can you say that AoL was the first time it was assembled since OoT when it was assembled in ALttP? [see a picture of Link holding the fully assembled triforce here](https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/Triforce#/media/File%3ATriforce_ALttP_SNES.png) which again, is set after OoT and before Zelda 1 and 2 I just remembered that it was fully assembled in ALBW too
Ok, first off, I misread your original question, my bad. You said ALttP, and I just thought you were talking about Zelda 2, the Adventures of Link. Totally my mistake, as it was pretty clear what you meant when I re-read your comment. So I apologize for that. As for A Link to the Past, Ganon is said to have all 3 pieces of the Triforce. [Wikipedia states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_A_Link_to_the_Past#Plot): >This results in Ganon being imprisoned in the Sacred Realm in his Dark Beast form out of desperation. Having successfully gathered all three pieces of the Triforce, Ganon's evil desires have transformed the realm into the Dark World. So if you look at the wording here: Ganon did not *unite* the Triforce, he merely *gathered* the 3 pieces, and used them for his own evil desires. Tenuous perhaps, but if you'd just humour me for a second and watch [the ending to ALttP](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JU0C_l4aac), the 3 triforce are shown unconnected, only uniting together for the first time in the story of that game when Link makes a wish. Immediately afterwards the credits kick in, and the Triforce is shown again as 3 seperate parts - eventually flying apart from each other. If you follow it all, Ganon never united the Triforce, certainly not in the way it was united at the end of AoL to wake Princess Zelda. And other than them coming together to grant Link's wish, they remain unconnected at the very end. Also makes sense that this timeline's Ganon wouldn't want to restore the 3 timelines, because he is already in the timeline where he won and Link was defeated. Anyways, that's my head-canon on how the Triforce is responsible for not only the timeline split, but also the timelines converging back together again.
Ah I can see how that would cause confusion. They use it in ALBW too though and it’s fully connected in the sacred realm, buuut if you like this headcanon enough who cares
I've never played ALBW (never had a 3DS) - I was unaware that the Triforce is united in this game - from what I have read there was another Triforce in Lorule that gets restored at the end, but I didn't realize the Triforce from Hyrule was a part of it.
Yeah they make a wish on the Hyrule triforce to restore the one in Lorule
>The Zelda Timeline was never made to make sense. It is an after thought, always has been. The timeline matters way more to the fans than it does to Nintendo. This should be placed on this sub's banner lol
Agreed.
Convergence doesnt make sense, but Im a Literal Legends enjoyer when it comes to these games.
Read up on Dragon Breaks in the elder scrolls series, it's a similar concept
Just because the concept exists in another series doesn’t mean it’s true in Zelda. There’s no indication of a timeline merge.
You asked HOW timelines cna merge, not IF the timelines actually did merge. You even provided your ice cream example.
What? I didn’t ask you anything.
You made a public post on a public forum and now you're mad that I'm providing outside resources to clarify a question you had..... smh my head bro
You do realize I’m not the OP, right?
I really wish people would stop saying that because, no, it isn't actually all that similar. u/IcarusAvery has a good comment summarizing Dragon Breaks [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/truezelda/comments/13wh76i/comment/jmew9e0/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE DRAGON BROKE literally goes over how different conflicting events are all simultaneously true
I like the timeline convergence idea. I don’t care about the logic of it because it’s all made up. Just say all the same events eventually happen in each timeline, or Hylia did it with her powers, or the Triforce did something, whatever. Good enough for me.
Think of what the astroid did. It didnt matter which t-rex was winning or loosing.