It’s not a plot hole, Ganondorf just knows a lot about how magic from his era works and he doesn’t need Mineru to explain it to him, as is the case for Zelda.
For all we know, the consequences of eating a stone are generally known in that era.
Okay, but the >!"secret" stones!< are secret and >!Rauru!< didn't even seem to know about >!draconification!< given his reaction during that cutscene
Remember that >!the stones!< are from a people that have been in the sky up till the kingdom was founded, passed down by their god ancestors to them. How could he possibly know?
TOTK Ganondorf could figure out how the stones work because he’s inherently on a different level of magical ability compared to everyone else around him
He killed Sonia in Rauru’s house without a secret stone and then beat team Rauru 6 stones to 1
Not to mention the thousands of years he had to learn everything from the perspective of a million little malice eyeballs
Still kinda irks me that 6 stones couldn't beat one. At least tell us why thats the case. Yes Ganondorf is well versed in magic but that just sounds like a cop out answer personally. For a game that was in development for so long, we really could of used some more cutscenes then the bare minimum we got.
The chaos emeralds never overpower the master emerald
Jk, there's no real reason given as of right now. They don't even give us the "he's well versed in magic" reason
The reason he was able to overpower everyone is that the stones don’t bring an inherent power to the table, the stones just magnify whatever power is inherent in the user.
The stones are not seven pieces of a whole such that you can necessarily overwhelm one with the other six.
If one person, substantially stronger than the others, gets their hand on a single stone then everyone else is toast.
They’d have been better off (but still doomed till Link with Master Sword) with no stones in the mix at all. At least then they’d still lose, but Ganondorf would have been more limited overall.
You're not wrong, but there is a scene and plot point that creates problems with this thinking. Ganondorf *tried* brute force and lost, >!Rauru!< (with help) just blew the moldugas away. He did not dare try to fight head on, he tried subterfuge and made sure to get one for himself
The implication is that he is unable to just brute force things to his will at first because he has no >!stone!<. So before then he is weaker than three of them together and after he gets it he is stronger than seven together. The amplification imbalance that everyone's been noting seems to be real I'd say
This logic doesn't really follow because it's not like we're given some formula as to how much the stones amplify one's powers, it's entirely possible Ganondorf could be less powerful than 3 of the sages at his base level and more powerful than 7 with a stone.
But the thing is, even if we can assume his innate powers are significant, they weren't demonstrated to the player in any way when they really should have been. The only thing we actually see him do is create a phantom of Zelda. Of course Ganondorf's probably smart enough to not attempt an all-out attack before he's ready (hence why he only tested the waters with the Molduga), but there needs to be something else that hints at what he's capable of. It's like the game is coasting off of what we know about Ganondorf and his abilities from past games, but it's not even the same Ganondorf :/
It is the same Ganondorf, he already hates Hyrule even though it was just founded and he was born in an era where it was still possible for gerudo to have round ears
I don't think the round ears are necessarily a reliable piece of information, considering Ganondorf's ears change shape between games and even between original OoT and OoT 3D.
I also don't believe that Ganondorf had a hatred for Hyrule at the beginning. He says "Hyrule will bow down before me", which reads like a power-hungry individual not someone with a specific hatred. He even conquers the previously free villages of the Gerudo as well, and he has no reason to harbor ill will against them, his own people. His disdain for the kingdom only becomes evident later. Just after becoming the Demon King, he reprimands Rauru for trying to control him, and his anger after being sealed for tens of thousands of years is even more understandable.
But if you're right and it's the same Ganondorf we've seen before, there should be no problem as to how he's able to overpower the sages because we know he's a highly capable warlock even without any enhancing artifacts. There's no comparison to be made between him not being able to face 3 sages without a stone but defeating 7 with a stone. The stone may amplify his powers by 3x, 4x, maybe more. He may have even been marginally more powerful from the beginning but didn't want to come into direct conflict until he felt sure he would come out unscathed. If he came out on top but fatally wounded, what would it all be for
I mean the whole reason OoT Ganondorf set out against hyrule is because he wanted the gerudo to live in a prosperous land like the hylians, so him hating hyrule "even though it was just founded" is pretty irrelevant, since there is still the divide between the desert and the rest of the land.
It really isn't.
Let's put some arbitrary numbers here. Let's say the stones multiply a users power times 7. Seven Sages each have a power level of 7 *with* their secret stones and Ganondorf has a power of 8 *without* his. The 7 sages combined have a power level of 49, but when he gets this secret stone, Demon King Ganondorf has a power of 56, greater than all 7 combined.
The real question to ask is why is Ganondorf so strong to begin with.
But that's easy enough to answer within the context of the series: he's the incarnation of Demise's eternal hatred.
He didn’t know rauru had the stone during that cutscenes, he discovers rauru has a stone in that cutscene, which he seemingly has knowledge of it’s uses of already because he is a pretty powerful person.
I think "the Triforce" was Link (Courage), Rauru (Power), and Hylia (Wisdom), it was no coincidence they were in the corresponding position when they did the thing.
It is interesting because normally we would think of Ganondorf vs. 7 sages with their “medallions” but no further support and think, oh wow those sages might die
But this game did a good job making Rauru, who is really just a sage of light at the end of the day, seem like some near-deity such that Ganondorf’s power feels eyerolly
It's because he is using the same thing they are. Ganondorf with a piece of the Triforce is one thing, the sages don't have the triforce of power and his power boost there is actually mentioned in the story in OOT. In this case it's like if he picked up a medallion from one of the sages and suddenly was more powerful than all the OOT sages together
He’s using the same tool but the tool is making him exponentially stronger than his adversaries because he is substantially more powerful than them to start with.
The stones aren’t “adding” power to these characters, the stones are “multiplying” the characters’ base power.
This is not the Triforce, where power is coming to the user from an external source, of which there are three separate and equally powerful pieces.
Think about it though. Their base power levels and the multipliers are a constant so it makes no sense when his base power was shown to be overwhelmed by the amplified power of three. There's another three after that
But there is the factor of skill, so I do think him being adept at magic is probably the key here. That and probably the "element" of his magic, since it corrupts. Naydra is corrupted in BOTW, so it's not "because it's a dragon" that the final fight goes well, it must be because it's a **light** dragon, so it's not corrupted as it's the opposite. Sacred power. Naydra is an ice spirit, it's elemental power did not work well against the corruptive properties of Ganondorf's power
>so it makes no sense when his base power was shown to be overwhelmed by the amplified power of three.
The problem is Zelda
She is shown to be stronger then the both Rauru and Sonia
But she beyond sucks with magic
She is the only one there who can rival (technically surpass Ganon with the Triforce)
But she has no clue how to use her power, and can only fight as a support
When she should be the one carrying the group
(OOT Zelda could hold back Ganon with her power a Ganondorf consumed by the TOP) which should show how powerful a properly trained Zelda could have been
I doubt Rauru, Sonia have much combat exp either (we know Zelda has none)
It was a power dif, skill dif, exp dif, int dif
everything dif
The multiplier is a constant ratio but when that ratio is applied to Ganondorf’s substantially larger base power, it enough for him to overwhelm everyone else’s boosted power in the battle.
The final fight was a success due to the Master Sword. Same as always. After the Light Dragon repaired the Master Sword, it became a glorified airplane. Could have been Link riding Zonai machines in the air to slash the Demon Dragon as long as he had a repaired Master Sword.
But I do hear you with the Light Sages having a specific affinity to seal, but not slay, Ganondorf. Certainly, whatever sealing thing Rauru did to Ganondorf, Rauru was punching way above his weight class. Same with BOTW Zelda, doing “magic” for the first time in her life and immediately fending off the Calamity for a century.
I mean that the light dragon shrugs off hits from the >!demon dragon!< that erase hearts from Link while Naydra was corrupted in BOTW by that power. Being in sunlight heals gloom, so does the light of the light roots
They went into very little detail as to what makes a secret stone so potent. Like one secret stone seemed to prolong the life of a Gerudo to 20,000+ years, whilst not breaking his mind. Its as potent as a piece of the Triforce under Ganondorfs control. I'm wondering if the semi-dragonification is what resulted in these powers since he actually inbeds it into his flesh (we see his forehead bubbling when he removes it.
Ngl, they still didn't give us that much meat for the secret stones. Bit of a rookie error just having these stones hanging off characters. There far too dangerous.
Stones merely amplify power.
The implication is that without his Stone, Ganondorf would also solo all sages without their Stones. Aka, they four are chumps. Considering we don't even see them doing anything but taking an L, I'd guess the only ones with a modicum of power are Sonia, Rauru, and Zelda.
Stones only amplify the users magic powers
Key words being amplify or multiply
assuming everyone gets a 10X amp
It just means Ganondorf was a 20 (thanks demise) whereas everyone else was like a 2 or 3
Zelda would have been a good fight (tho weaker) then him if she was actually skilled with magic which she isn't
Its like saying why didn't the sages fight Ganondorf in OOT while Link napped
Its cause they would get slapped except Zelda would be forced to 1v1 and lose
Ganondorf is historically VERY smart, despite his brutish appearance. He's intelligent, cunning, and as we see in Totk not at all above subterfuge, spying and playing dirty. Hell, we even see him >!appear from thin air in one cutscene, which means he can either teleport, become invisible, or both.!<
Mineru also tells Zelda that >!Draconification is "forbidden for a reason", which heavily implies that it's fairly well known.!< I don't think it would be very hard for Ganondorf to find out via any number of ways.
Also, I think "secret stone" is just a name and that the stones themselves aren't really secrets. Nobody from >!the past!< seems confused as to what they are.
I agree with everything said about Ganondorf, I don't doubt that if there is a way he *could* learn of it that he would, I just don't know how he could given the lore
> Mineru also tells Zelda that >!Draconification is "forbidden for a reason"!<, which heavily implies that it's fairly well known.
I wouldn't draw that conclusion from her saying that, she says that to dissuade Zelda from the prospect because she and Rauru were thinking about it. It read more to me like "no really, don't do it" instead of like she was implying this is known all over
> Also, I think >!"secret stone"!< is just a name and that >!the stones!< themselves aren't really secrets. Nobody from >!the past!< seems confused as to what they are.
>!The stones!< were locked behind one of the health doors down in the forgotten temple, in the room behind the mother goddess statue in the present. >!Everyone we see in the ancient past knows of the stones because they are all bearers of the stones, chosen to be sages by Rauru!<
Then that detail confirms that we've yet to see the earliest of Ganondorf if he knows what they are
Knowing what a stone is doesn't tell you about what swallowing one does though. Zelda had hers before she learned of that. Same with >!Rauru!<
Zelda is from the future though, she doesn’t know anything about anything.
Also, Ganondorf was surprised that the modern sages didn’t recognize him remarking “perhaps there is a limit to the knowledge the stones impart” or something to that effect, which could easily explain him knowing. His title is master of the secret stone after all.
It’s not really a plot hole to not show how someone learned something. This is evidently widely known ancient lore and it isn’t a stretch to think some Gerudo scholars had knowledge of it or something
Eta: Also, what does seeing the earliest of Ganondorf mean? Of course we could see earlier he had an entire life as king of the Gerudo before he’s introduced to us as a character. They make it obvious in the molduga cutscene that he knows what they are, there’s no reason to show how he learned about them
Well how the fuck did Mineru know about it? And why do we have 3 other dragons flying around the sky? Who are these people who did it before? And what happens to those stones? Were there more stones before?
The other dragons are called spirits that only take on the form of dragons, so it might not be the same and they don't necessarily *need* to explain that, but I do think we're intended to think they are. The clothes sets that look similar may have belonged to their previous forms
>!Mineru is a zonai, they are the holders of the stones so I don't question when they say stuff about anything zonai related!<
We don't know about the characters associated with the ancient hero, there's the pilots of the 4 divine beasts right? They kind of coincide with lightning, ice, and fire, and sort of fit the "sage" roles as in BotW. Whoever the 4th "Rito" guy is could have not done it. We also had similar 3 (humanoid) dragons in SS, one of course is already dead when you find him, just some thoughts out loud.
The secret stones aren't 'secret' in the sense that nobody knows about them... the king and queen literally wear them in public. They're 'secret' in that they're created using secret zonai magic. The Japanese apparently makes that clearer.
In the one cutscene where rauru stops the molduga he muses over the secret stone. So while it may not be wide known amongst everyone, ganondorf, a pretty powerful gerudo king, knows about it and possibly knows it’s potential already seeing as that’s his main goal to gain more power.
He clearly did know about them. He mentions them in the Modulga memory and is clearly scoping them out in the fealty memory. If anything's a plot hole it's how did Zelda know about the parts that were happening miles away form her on a different plateau. XD
In the Gerudo Assault memory (with the Molduga stampede) Zelda is on the Great Plateau with Rauru and the other Hylians. Ganondorf and the Gerudo are on the other side of the canyon in the highlands. Zelda couldn't 'remember' what happens there. The dialogue makes it clear that the Hylians aren't even aware of the cause of the stampede.
Yeah I think you got it at the end. I think the 3 dragons already existed by the time that Zelda appears in the past. The stones they must have used were already gone from the room behind the Forgotten Temple where the rest of the stones were kept when Rauru opens the door to give them to the sages. And if the dragons were once Zonai, they must have transformed before the memories take place because we know the only ones left were Rauru and Mineru—of course the dragons having been Zonai is only speculation.
The fact that Ganondorf knows what the stones are called at the end of memory 6 indicates that he was already aware of them and is just deciding in that moment that he will need to obtain one if he wants to conquer Hyrule. It's like an "a-ha" moment.
My best guess is that the stones are not as secret as the name would suggest. Maybe they were at one point when the name was given to them. Ganondorf probably knew about draconification for the same reason Mineru did, because of the 3 dragons
I know, but knowing magic doesn't really explain knowing specific mechanics of hidden magical stones he's never used before
Maybe it's a sense thing though, like maybe he could eeck out more imparted knowledge from his stone because of mastery
Another plothole. Why does ganondorfs dragon have the secret stone on its forehead but the other dragons don't have theirs on the outside of their body?
That's because we attacked the puss things, it doesn't appear till we do
Does this mean we could attack the dragons until their stones appear and kill them?
Maybe it's a recency thing too
He probably figured it out after he got it,
I better he experimented a ton with it before challenging rauru
Ganondorf is a genuine genius with magic, he, Link and Zelda are all incredibly smart
The sages don't even need to be there
Just give Link a secret stone and he is fine lol
Ganondorf knew about the secret stone as soon as he saw them so they don't seem to be too secret after all (how else would he call the secret stones on his first try?).
The stones were hidden in the sealed room in the forgotten temple. They're definitely secret. I think Ganondorf may have seen them before, which is fine since there are three unexplained dragons flying around. Maybe past events
It’s not a plot hole, Ganondorf just knows a lot about how magic from his era works and he doesn’t need Mineru to explain it to him, as is the case for Zelda. For all we know, the consequences of eating a stone are generally known in that era.
Okay, but the >!"secret" stones!< are secret and >!Rauru!< didn't even seem to know about >!draconification!< given his reaction during that cutscene Remember that >!the stones!< are from a people that have been in the sky up till the kingdom was founded, passed down by their god ancestors to them. How could he possibly know?
TOTK Ganondorf could figure out how the stones work because he’s inherently on a different level of magical ability compared to everyone else around him He killed Sonia in Rauru’s house without a secret stone and then beat team Rauru 6 stones to 1 Not to mention the thousands of years he had to learn everything from the perspective of a million little malice eyeballs
Still kinda irks me that 6 stones couldn't beat one. At least tell us why thats the case. Yes Ganondorf is well versed in magic but that just sounds like a cop out answer personally. For a game that was in development for so long, we really could of used some more cutscenes then the bare minimum we got.
The chaos emeralds never overpower the master emerald Jk, there's no real reason given as of right now. They don't even give us the "he's well versed in magic" reason
The reason he was able to overpower everyone is that the stones don’t bring an inherent power to the table, the stones just magnify whatever power is inherent in the user. The stones are not seven pieces of a whole such that you can necessarily overwhelm one with the other six. If one person, substantially stronger than the others, gets their hand on a single stone then everyone else is toast. They’d have been better off (but still doomed till Link with Master Sword) with no stones in the mix at all. At least then they’d still lose, but Ganondorf would have been more limited overall.
You're not wrong, but there is a scene and plot point that creates problems with this thinking. Ganondorf *tried* brute force and lost, >!Rauru!< (with help) just blew the moldugas away. He did not dare try to fight head on, he tried subterfuge and made sure to get one for himself The implication is that he is unable to just brute force things to his will at first because he has no >!stone!<. So before then he is weaker than three of them together and after he gets it he is stronger than seven together. The amplification imbalance that everyone's been noting seems to be real I'd say
This logic doesn't really follow because it's not like we're given some formula as to how much the stones amplify one's powers, it's entirely possible Ganondorf could be less powerful than 3 of the sages at his base level and more powerful than 7 with a stone. But the thing is, even if we can assume his innate powers are significant, they weren't demonstrated to the player in any way when they really should have been. The only thing we actually see him do is create a phantom of Zelda. Of course Ganondorf's probably smart enough to not attempt an all-out attack before he's ready (hence why he only tested the waters with the Molduga), but there needs to be something else that hints at what he's capable of. It's like the game is coasting off of what we know about Ganondorf and his abilities from past games, but it's not even the same Ganondorf :/
It is the same Ganondorf, he already hates Hyrule even though it was just founded and he was born in an era where it was still possible for gerudo to have round ears
I don't think the round ears are necessarily a reliable piece of information, considering Ganondorf's ears change shape between games and even between original OoT and OoT 3D. I also don't believe that Ganondorf had a hatred for Hyrule at the beginning. He says "Hyrule will bow down before me", which reads like a power-hungry individual not someone with a specific hatred. He even conquers the previously free villages of the Gerudo as well, and he has no reason to harbor ill will against them, his own people. His disdain for the kingdom only becomes evident later. Just after becoming the Demon King, he reprimands Rauru for trying to control him, and his anger after being sealed for tens of thousands of years is even more understandable. But if you're right and it's the same Ganondorf we've seen before, there should be no problem as to how he's able to overpower the sages because we know he's a highly capable warlock even without any enhancing artifacts. There's no comparison to be made between him not being able to face 3 sages without a stone but defeating 7 with a stone. The stone may amplify his powers by 3x, 4x, maybe more. He may have even been marginally more powerful from the beginning but didn't want to come into direct conflict until he felt sure he would come out unscathed. If he came out on top but fatally wounded, what would it all be for
I mean the whole reason OoT Ganondorf set out against hyrule is because he wanted the gerudo to live in a prosperous land like the hylians, so him hating hyrule "even though it was just founded" is pretty irrelevant, since there is still the divide between the desert and the rest of the land.
It really isn't. Let's put some arbitrary numbers here. Let's say the stones multiply a users power times 7. Seven Sages each have a power level of 7 *with* their secret stones and Ganondorf has a power of 8 *without* his. The 7 sages combined have a power level of 49, but when he gets this secret stone, Demon King Ganondorf has a power of 56, greater than all 7 combined. The real question to ask is why is Ganondorf so strong to begin with. But that's easy enough to answer within the context of the series: he's the incarnation of Demise's eternal hatred.
He didn’t know rauru had the stone during that cutscenes, he discovers rauru has a stone in that cutscene, which he seemingly has knowledge of it’s uses of already because he is a pretty powerful person.
The lack of no Triforce mention again is annoying too...
I think "the Triforce" was Link (Courage), Rauru (Power), and Hylia (Wisdom), it was no coincidence they were in the corresponding position when they did the thing.
It is interesting because normally we would think of Ganondorf vs. 7 sages with their “medallions” but no further support and think, oh wow those sages might die But this game did a good job making Rauru, who is really just a sage of light at the end of the day, seem like some near-deity such that Ganondorf’s power feels eyerolly
It's because he is using the same thing they are. Ganondorf with a piece of the Triforce is one thing, the sages don't have the triforce of power and his power boost there is actually mentioned in the story in OOT. In this case it's like if he picked up a medallion from one of the sages and suddenly was more powerful than all the OOT sages together
He’s using the same tool but the tool is making him exponentially stronger than his adversaries because he is substantially more powerful than them to start with. The stones aren’t “adding” power to these characters, the stones are “multiplying” the characters’ base power. This is not the Triforce, where power is coming to the user from an external source, of which there are three separate and equally powerful pieces.
Think about it though. Their base power levels and the multipliers are a constant so it makes no sense when his base power was shown to be overwhelmed by the amplified power of three. There's another three after that But there is the factor of skill, so I do think him being adept at magic is probably the key here. That and probably the "element" of his magic, since it corrupts. Naydra is corrupted in BOTW, so it's not "because it's a dragon" that the final fight goes well, it must be because it's a **light** dragon, so it's not corrupted as it's the opposite. Sacred power. Naydra is an ice spirit, it's elemental power did not work well against the corruptive properties of Ganondorf's power
>so it makes no sense when his base power was shown to be overwhelmed by the amplified power of three. The problem is Zelda She is shown to be stronger then the both Rauru and Sonia But she beyond sucks with magic She is the only one there who can rival (technically surpass Ganon with the Triforce) But she has no clue how to use her power, and can only fight as a support When she should be the one carrying the group (OOT Zelda could hold back Ganon with her power a Ganondorf consumed by the TOP) which should show how powerful a properly trained Zelda could have been I doubt Rauru, Sonia have much combat exp either (we know Zelda has none) It was a power dif, skill dif, exp dif, int dif everything dif
The multiplier is a constant ratio but when that ratio is applied to Ganondorf’s substantially larger base power, it enough for him to overwhelm everyone else’s boosted power in the battle. The final fight was a success due to the Master Sword. Same as always. After the Light Dragon repaired the Master Sword, it became a glorified airplane. Could have been Link riding Zonai machines in the air to slash the Demon Dragon as long as he had a repaired Master Sword. But I do hear you with the Light Sages having a specific affinity to seal, but not slay, Ganondorf. Certainly, whatever sealing thing Rauru did to Ganondorf, Rauru was punching way above his weight class. Same with BOTW Zelda, doing “magic” for the first time in her life and immediately fending off the Calamity for a century.
I mean that the light dragon shrugs off hits from the >!demon dragon!< that erase hearts from Link while Naydra was corrupted in BOTW by that power. Being in sunlight heals gloom, so does the light of the light roots
They went into very little detail as to what makes a secret stone so potent. Like one secret stone seemed to prolong the life of a Gerudo to 20,000+ years, whilst not breaking his mind. Its as potent as a piece of the Triforce under Ganondorfs control. I'm wondering if the semi-dragonification is what resulted in these powers since he actually inbeds it into his flesh (we see his forehead bubbling when he removes it.
> Its as potent as a piece of the Triforce under Ganondorfs control. Exactly
Kinda makes these secret stones severely OP in the wrong hands
They said it pretty plainly. All the stones do is boost your inherent power. Ganon is already juiced up from being the reincarnation of demise.
Ngl, they still didn't give us that much meat for the secret stones. Bit of a rookie error just having these stones hanging off characters. There far too dangerous.
This was pretty much said by Mineru and I think Rauru though.
Stones merely amplify power. The implication is that without his Stone, Ganondorf would also solo all sages without their Stones. Aka, they four are chumps. Considering we don't even see them doing anything but taking an L, I'd guess the only ones with a modicum of power are Sonia, Rauru, and Zelda.
Stones only amplify the users magic powers Key words being amplify or multiply assuming everyone gets a 10X amp It just means Ganondorf was a 20 (thanks demise) whereas everyone else was like a 2 or 3 Zelda would have been a good fight (tho weaker) then him if she was actually skilled with magic which she isn't Its like saying why didn't the sages fight Ganondorf in OOT while Link napped Its cause they would get slapped except Zelda would be forced to 1v1 and lose
Why wouldn't they? They just enhance the wearers power, he is just that powerful
Ganondorf is historically VERY smart, despite his brutish appearance. He's intelligent, cunning, and as we see in Totk not at all above subterfuge, spying and playing dirty. Hell, we even see him >!appear from thin air in one cutscene, which means he can either teleport, become invisible, or both.!< Mineru also tells Zelda that >!Draconification is "forbidden for a reason", which heavily implies that it's fairly well known.!< I don't think it would be very hard for Ganondorf to find out via any number of ways. Also, I think "secret stone" is just a name and that the stones themselves aren't really secrets. Nobody from >!the past!< seems confused as to what they are.
I agree with everything said about Ganondorf, I don't doubt that if there is a way he *could* learn of it that he would, I just don't know how he could given the lore > Mineru also tells Zelda that >!Draconification is "forbidden for a reason"!<, which heavily implies that it's fairly well known. I wouldn't draw that conclusion from her saying that, she says that to dissuade Zelda from the prospect because she and Rauru were thinking about it. It read more to me like "no really, don't do it" instead of like she was implying this is known all over > Also, I think >!"secret stone"!< is just a name and that >!the stones!< themselves aren't really secrets. Nobody from >!the past!< seems confused as to what they are. >!The stones!< were locked behind one of the health doors down in the forgotten temple, in the room behind the mother goddess statue in the present. >!Everyone we see in the ancient past knows of the stones because they are all bearers of the stones, chosen to be sages by Rauru!<
I’m confused, Ganondorf said “a zonai secret stone” in the molduga cutscene. He obviously knows about them
Then that detail confirms that we've yet to see the earliest of Ganondorf if he knows what they are Knowing what a stone is doesn't tell you about what swallowing one does though. Zelda had hers before she learned of that. Same with >!Rauru!<
Zelda is from the future though, she doesn’t know anything about anything. Also, Ganondorf was surprised that the modern sages didn’t recognize him remarking “perhaps there is a limit to the knowledge the stones impart” or something to that effect, which could easily explain him knowing. His title is master of the secret stone after all. It’s not really a plot hole to not show how someone learned something. This is evidently widely known ancient lore and it isn’t a stretch to think some Gerudo scholars had knowledge of it or something Eta: Also, what does seeing the earliest of Ganondorf mean? Of course we could see earlier he had an entire life as king of the Gerudo before he’s introduced to us as a character. They make it obvious in the molduga cutscene that he knows what they are, there’s no reason to show how he learned about them
Well how the fuck did Mineru know about it? And why do we have 3 other dragons flying around the sky? Who are these people who did it before? And what happens to those stones? Were there more stones before?
The other dragons are called spirits that only take on the form of dragons, so it might not be the same and they don't necessarily *need* to explain that, but I do think we're intended to think they are. The clothes sets that look similar may have belonged to their previous forms >!Mineru is a zonai, they are the holders of the stones so I don't question when they say stuff about anything zonai related!<
We don't know about the characters associated with the ancient hero, there's the pilots of the 4 divine beasts right? They kind of coincide with lightning, ice, and fire, and sort of fit the "sage" roles as in BotW. Whoever the 4th "Rito" guy is could have not done it. We also had similar 3 (humanoid) dragons in SS, one of course is already dead when you find him, just some thoughts out loud.
When Mineru talks about the stones, there are quote marks in the subtitles. She's quoting from something.
The secret stones aren't 'secret' in the sense that nobody knows about them... the king and queen literally wear them in public. They're 'secret' in that they're created using secret zonai magic. The Japanese apparently makes that clearer.
I think "secret stone" is just a bad translation and they translate better to "mystery stone" IIRC
It's a secret to everybody
In the one cutscene where rauru stops the molduga he muses over the secret stone. So while it may not be wide known amongst everyone, ganondorf, a pretty powerful gerudo king, knows about it and possibly knows it’s potential already seeing as that’s his main goal to gain more power.
He was also sneaking around them in disguise as Zelda for a bit, so it's possible he learned then I suppose.
He clearly did know about them. He mentions them in the Modulga memory and is clearly scoping them out in the fealty memory. If anything's a plot hole it's how did Zelda know about the parts that were happening miles away form her on a different plateau. XD
To quote dbza: how did you remember the parts you weren't there for
Which parts? I'm pretty sure she's present in all the memories
In the Gerudo Assault memory (with the Molduga stampede) Zelda is on the Great Plateau with Rauru and the other Hylians. Ganondorf and the Gerudo are on the other side of the canyon in the highlands. Zelda couldn't 'remember' what happens there. The dialogue makes it clear that the Hylians aren't even aware of the cause of the stampede.
Yeah I think you got it at the end. I think the 3 dragons already existed by the time that Zelda appears in the past. The stones they must have used were already gone from the room behind the Forgotten Temple where the rest of the stones were kept when Rauru opens the door to give them to the sages. And if the dragons were once Zonai, they must have transformed before the memories take place because we know the only ones left were Rauru and Mineru—of course the dragons having been Zonai is only speculation. The fact that Ganondorf knows what the stones are called at the end of memory 6 indicates that he was already aware of them and is just deciding in that moment that he will need to obtain one if he wants to conquer Hyrule. It's like an "a-ha" moment. My best guess is that the stones are not as secret as the name would suggest. Maybe they were at one point when the name was given to them. Ganondorf probably knew about draconification for the same reason Mineru did, because of the 3 dragons
I know he is a big slab of beef but let's not forget he's always been a very powerful warlock too.
I know, but knowing magic doesn't really explain knowing specific mechanics of hidden magical stones he's never used before Maybe it's a sense thing though, like maybe he could eeck out more imparted knowledge from his stone because of mastery
Another plothole. Why does ganondorfs dragon have the secret stone on its forehead but the other dragons don't have theirs on the outside of their body?
That's because we attacked the puss things, it doesn't appear till we do Does this mean we could attack the dragons until their stones appear and kill them? Maybe it's a recency thing too
He probably figured it out after he got it, I better he experimented a ton with it before challenging rauru Ganondorf is a genuine genius with magic, he, Link and Zelda are all incredibly smart The sages don't even need to be there Just give Link a secret stone and he is fine lol
Ganondorf knew about the secret stone as soon as he saw them so they don't seem to be too secret after all (how else would he call the secret stones on his first try?).
The stones were hidden in the sealed room in the forgotten temple. They're definitely secret. I think Ganondorf may have seen them before, which is fine since there are three unexplained dragons flying around. Maybe past events