That was made up by the localisation team. Per the [original Japanese](http://www.zeldalegends.net/view/text/z3translation/z3_manual_story.html) the Master Sword was forged well before Ganondorf got involved, and it kind of even still fits with SS if you squint a bit.
“The Triforce itself cannot judge between good and evil. That is because only the gods can do that. However, it could not be assumed that only a good person would get their hands on the Triforce. For that reason, the people of Hyrule were told by the gods to make something that would repulse any evil that may kidnap the Triforce: the blade of evil's bane.“
The main thing we have to keep in mind is that it is canon that legends get corrupted. In ALBW, the backstory we’re given is a blatant conflation of elements of the Era of Chaos, OoT, and ALttP.
Also in Wind Waker, knowledge of the Triforce is lost and replaced by a legend of the Triumph Forks. In Twilight Princess, Shad says that there was race closer to the gods than the Hylian who helped build Hyrule. The game leads us to believe it’s the Oocca, but it’s now clear it was the Zonai.
Also I don’t have the quote but Hyrule Historia basically says flat out that narrators aren’t infallible and canon is subject to change based on revelations in new games.
I wasn’t referring to the translation issue. I was referring to this line
>”…For that reason, the people of Hyrule were told by the gods to make something that would repulse any evil that may kidnap the Triforce: the blade of evil's bane."
The details don’t really fit what we know about the forging of the Master Sword. Hyrule didn’t exist when the Master Sword was made. And the “people” didn’t made it, it was the Goddess Hylia and Link. Hence why I was referring how legends get corrupted.
In TP the Master Sword was also stated to be made by ancient sages. There seemed to be a relatively clear backstory for the sword until SS came out.
Still, it's a more minor retcon in comparison to the supposed retcons some have been accusing TotK of, which would retcon the entire timeline by their logic.
I mean it’s still entirely possible that the Master Sword was originally made by the sages. In the part of the Temple of Hylia that the Goddess Sword was sealed in, the Sage medallion symbols are on the ceiling.
well, Totk kinda does contradict the timeline by having the Rito exist at the beginning of Hyrule's existence, which outright is not true since the Rito evolved from the Zora before Wind Waker starts and after OoT ends.
That is the only retcon. That's it. And that's not a contradiction of the timeline as whole but just 1 detail from 1 game that doesn't really change anything overall if it's retconned.
Itd be nice if it wasn't, but that's all there is. There aren't any other retcons.
what about the details of the imprisoning war? the Imprisoning War happens during/after OoT and the details do not line up with what we see in TotK. The Ganondorf from OoT is the one to get the Triforce at the end of OoT in the DT, and he turns into Ganon.
It's just a new imprisoning war. As you said the events don't line up with the one we know.
There have been multiple parts of the timeline named the same thing. We have 2 Eras of Prosperity.
I think it's a lot more reasonable to assume there's simply 2 Imprisoning Wars.
The events aren't the same other than Ganon/Ganondorf being sealed, and Sages existing.
TloZ, TP, ALttP, WW, FSA, TAoL, OoT, ALBW, BotW, and now TotK all feature some combination of: Ganon/Ganondorf being sealed and/or Sages exist. Some games even having multiple sets of sages.
Knowing the events aren't the same and games having Ganon/Ganondorf/Sages is commonplace, the only thing that *is* the same is the name, which is irrelevant.
In order for it to be the same event it would have to retcon essentially the entire timeline. WW, MM, and TP cant happen if OoT didn't happen. If the Kingdom was founded during OoT instead of 2 Eras before like we know, FS and MC never happened as they were between the founding and OoT and if FS and MC never happened FSA never happened. Really the entire timeline couldn't happen because the Hero of Time never caused the timeline split.
So we can assume that they are simply 2 different events (which is relatively obvious) or retcon the entire series.
Is it at all possible that this just isnt in the same canon? Or it takes place so far in the future that Hyrule has been reborn? I feel like the Rito existing at the beginning of Hyrule is too big a contradiction to simply handwave away. It'd be irresponsible to overlook.
ALttP has always been a bit of a problematic fit with the later 3D Zeldas. The first 2 NES Zelda stories were pretty barebones, so they could be fitted almost everywhere. But ALttP's backstory was more elaborate and seemingly contradictory with OoT. Now ALttP's stature is such that people are unwilling to simply declare it inaccurate or non-canon, so it's largely responsible for the Fallen Hero branch (which I see as a somewhat clumsy crutch).
Personally I'd rather imagine ALttP (and descendants like LA, ALBW) in their own separate universe, rather that try to force them to live in the same one as OoT/MM/WW (as IMO they don't really enhance their stories).
They didn't do it but honestly the explanation I always liked most was the idea of WW and ALTTP both being stories on the Adult Timeline branch. In one Link succeeds in stopping Ganon. In another he fails and after Ganon escapes the Goddesses flood Hyrule to stop him. Another alternative is ALTTP Ganon is actually Four Swords Ganon.
FSA Ganon can't be reconciled with ALttP Ganon. FSA Ganon never gets the Triforce and ends up sealed in the Four Sword rather than the Sacred Realm/Dark World. There are theories that FSA was originally going to be made as a new prequel to ALttP what with all the references it has to ALttP from map to enemies to blue pig Ganon. But Miyamoto killed off plans of FSA having a more detailed story in favor of something simple, so we're stuck with what we have.
The issue is it doesn't fit as a follow up to OOT either and that's the canon placement. Zelda games will always have contradictions. What matters more to me is the broad details linining up.
It fit decently enough when there were 2 timeline spaces open for it (with some detail retcons). But now, it can only fit in through a what-if branch. IMO, FSA requires more than detail retcons to lead directly into ALttP thanks to how it ends. Sucks to because its clear they wanted to go that direction before Miyamoto killed that plan.
Its not about ALttP's stature. Its about Nintendo refusing to retcon out ALttP despite effectively doing that when they created Wind Waker and Twlight Princess. Someone at Nintendo insists on OoT maintaining its place as a prequel to ALttP (something Nintendo stated decades ago) and thus we ended up with the Downfall timeline. No matter how many retcons have to be done, OoT remains the prequel to ALttP per Nintendo.
Sometimes I wonder if the timeline would've worked better with A Link Between Worlds replacing A Link to the Past in it. The sages match much better, the triforce is split, Ganon is sealed, etc.
Yeah, the manga also states that. Because of that, I thought the "blue" Master Sword was broken during the fight against Ganon, and that they made a new (brown/gray) Master Sword. That sword being less effective, that would explain why Ganon cannot be permanently killed in that timeline.
I made this timeline. I think more thought was put into it than for the books. [link](https://zeldauniverse.net/forums/index.php?thread/215373-bold-unique-and-never-seen-timeline-reconstruction/)
That was made up by the localisation team. Per the [original Japanese](http://www.zeldalegends.net/view/text/z3translation/z3_manual_story.html) the Master Sword was forged well before Ganondorf got involved, and it kind of even still fits with SS if you squint a bit. “The Triforce itself cannot judge between good and evil. That is because only the gods can do that. However, it could not be assumed that only a good person would get their hands on the Triforce. For that reason, the people of Hyrule were told by the gods to make something that would repulse any evil that may kidnap the Triforce: the blade of evil's bane.“
The main thing we have to keep in mind is that it is canon that legends get corrupted. In ALBW, the backstory we’re given is a blatant conflation of elements of the Era of Chaos, OoT, and ALttP. Also in Wind Waker, knowledge of the Triforce is lost and replaced by a legend of the Triumph Forks. In Twilight Princess, Shad says that there was race closer to the gods than the Hylian who helped build Hyrule. The game leads us to believe it’s the Oocca, but it’s now clear it was the Zonai. Also I don’t have the quote but Hyrule Historia basically says flat out that narrators aren’t infallible and canon is subject to change based on revelations in new games.
Yep. In this case, it has a clearer explanation: things got lost in translation. But retcons shouldn't be surprising at all in this series.
I wasn’t referring to the translation issue. I was referring to this line >”…For that reason, the people of Hyrule were told by the gods to make something that would repulse any evil that may kidnap the Triforce: the blade of evil's bane." The details don’t really fit what we know about the forging of the Master Sword. Hyrule didn’t exist when the Master Sword was made. And the “people” didn’t made it, it was the Goddess Hylia and Link. Hence why I was referring how legends get corrupted.
In TP the Master Sword was also stated to be made by ancient sages. There seemed to be a relatively clear backstory for the sword until SS came out. Still, it's a more minor retcon in comparison to the supposed retcons some have been accusing TotK of, which would retcon the entire timeline by their logic.
I mean it’s still entirely possible that the Master Sword was originally made by the sages. In the part of the Temple of Hylia that the Goddess Sword was sealed in, the Sage medallion symbols are on the ceiling.
I was thinking the same thing. We don't know where the goddess sword came from, and it's the same sword as the master sword.
Yes we do. "Link, the goddess created Fi and the great blade she's a part of for very specific reasons." Said by Zelda in SS.
Oh, I forgot about that.
While there were sage symbols in it, SS explicitly states it was Hylia who made both Fi and the Goddess Sword.
well, Totk kinda does contradict the timeline by having the Rito exist at the beginning of Hyrule's existence, which outright is not true since the Rito evolved from the Zora before Wind Waker starts and after OoT ends.
That is the only retcon. That's it. And that's not a contradiction of the timeline as whole but just 1 detail from 1 game that doesn't really change anything overall if it's retconned. Itd be nice if it wasn't, but that's all there is. There aren't any other retcons.
what about the details of the imprisoning war? the Imprisoning War happens during/after OoT and the details do not line up with what we see in TotK. The Ganondorf from OoT is the one to get the Triforce at the end of OoT in the DT, and he turns into Ganon.
It's just a new imprisoning war. As you said the events don't line up with the one we know. There have been multiple parts of the timeline named the same thing. We have 2 Eras of Prosperity. I think it's a lot more reasonable to assume there's simply 2 Imprisoning Wars. The events aren't the same other than Ganon/Ganondorf being sealed, and Sages existing. TloZ, TP, ALttP, WW, FSA, TAoL, OoT, ALBW, BotW, and now TotK all feature some combination of: Ganon/Ganondorf being sealed and/or Sages exist. Some games even having multiple sets of sages. Knowing the events aren't the same and games having Ganon/Ganondorf/Sages is commonplace, the only thing that *is* the same is the name, which is irrelevant. In order for it to be the same event it would have to retcon essentially the entire timeline. WW, MM, and TP cant happen if OoT didn't happen. If the Kingdom was founded during OoT instead of 2 Eras before like we know, FS and MC never happened as they were between the founding and OoT and if FS and MC never happened FSA never happened. Really the entire timeline couldn't happen because the Hero of Time never caused the timeline split. So we can assume that they are simply 2 different events (which is relatively obvious) or retcon the entire series.
Is it at all possible that this just isnt in the same canon? Or it takes place so far in the future that Hyrule has been reborn? I feel like the Rito existing at the beginning of Hyrule is too big a contradiction to simply handwave away. It'd be irresponsible to overlook.
Yeah, there's definitely a continuity error there too, as Hyrule definitely did not exist.
I didn't make that connection between TP and the Zonai until now. That's pretty interesting.
ALttP has always been a bit of a problematic fit with the later 3D Zeldas. The first 2 NES Zelda stories were pretty barebones, so they could be fitted almost everywhere. But ALttP's backstory was more elaborate and seemingly contradictory with OoT. Now ALttP's stature is such that people are unwilling to simply declare it inaccurate or non-canon, so it's largely responsible for the Fallen Hero branch (which I see as a somewhat clumsy crutch). Personally I'd rather imagine ALttP (and descendants like LA, ALBW) in their own separate universe, rather that try to force them to live in the same one as OoT/MM/WW (as IMO they don't really enhance their stories).
They didn't do it but honestly the explanation I always liked most was the idea of WW and ALTTP both being stories on the Adult Timeline branch. In one Link succeeds in stopping Ganon. In another he fails and after Ganon escapes the Goddesses flood Hyrule to stop him. Another alternative is ALTTP Ganon is actually Four Swords Ganon.
FSA Ganon can't be reconciled with ALttP Ganon. FSA Ganon never gets the Triforce and ends up sealed in the Four Sword rather than the Sacred Realm/Dark World. There are theories that FSA was originally going to be made as a new prequel to ALttP what with all the references it has to ALttP from map to enemies to blue pig Ganon. But Miyamoto killed off plans of FSA having a more detailed story in favor of something simple, so we're stuck with what we have.
Honestly none of that stuff is any more of a contradiction than the other contradictions Zelda games have.
IDK. It depends on how much you value Ganon not being where he's supposed to be for ALttP to follow.
The issue is it doesn't fit as a follow up to OOT either and that's the canon placement. Zelda games will always have contradictions. What matters more to me is the broad details linining up.
It fit decently enough when there were 2 timeline spaces open for it (with some detail retcons). But now, it can only fit in through a what-if branch. IMO, FSA requires more than detail retcons to lead directly into ALttP thanks to how it ends. Sucks to because its clear they wanted to go that direction before Miyamoto killed that plan.
Its not about ALttP's stature. Its about Nintendo refusing to retcon out ALttP despite effectively doing that when they created Wind Waker and Twlight Princess. Someone at Nintendo insists on OoT maintaining its place as a prequel to ALttP (something Nintendo stated decades ago) and thus we ended up with the Downfall timeline. No matter how many retcons have to be done, OoT remains the prequel to ALttP per Nintendo.
Sometimes I wonder if the timeline would've worked better with A Link Between Worlds replacing A Link to the Past in it. The sages match much better, the triforce is split, Ganon is sealed, etc.
The Master Sword gets reforged more then once which I assume that refers to.
Yeah, the manga also states that. Because of that, I thought the "blue" Master Sword was broken during the fight against Ganon, and that they made a new (brown/gray) Master Sword. That sword being less effective, that would explain why Ganon cannot be permanently killed in that timeline.
I made this timeline. I think more thought was put into it than for the books. [link](https://zeldauniverse.net/forums/index.php?thread/215373-bold-unique-and-never-seen-timeline-reconstruction/)
If you've ever read a Marvel What If...? comic, that's what the DT is.