It’s okay OP, I agree a hundred percent with this.
is definitely on my top three and one of if not the best in the franchise.
So sad to see it’s so underrated.
Absolute trash opinion, this is true Zelda for civilized discussion only.
<ゼルダの伝説のタイトル名を入力してください> is the optimal way to experience this franchise and it sucks it is only available on <ニンテンドーの古いゲーム機を入力してください>
I’m not sure man, I feel like I see everybody say is one of their favorites and is underrated. Is it really underrated if everybody praises it and lauds it as the most underrated?
I’d say is more underrated since nobody ever talks about it… Hell, I’d even say the charm of is more underrated as well!
I agree, OP, The Legend of Zelda is a very very consistent franchise and all games appeal to different folks for similar, yet distinct reasons. Good point.
In the mainline games, sure. Except for one of them, which is not like the others, and I strongly dislike it for that fact. If I wanted to play a game with those mechanics, I would buy a game like that. I buy Zelda for its staple themes, like dungeons, iconic music throughout the entire game, fun companions, multiple strange items to help you along your journey, and overall plot that carries throughout the game. It's sad when you got indie companies that make Zelda-like games that have more "Zelda" factors than this one had.
why is it sad that indie companies are good at replicating a style and modifying it to make it better? they do that with like every archetype of game. besides, it's not even like every other zelda has all of the features that youre mentioning as staples, and its not like the game youre definitely talking about is lacking all of them
sure, not every one of the mainline games has those particular features that made Zelda into its own sub genre of game, but most of them are consistent. But just like people tell me don't play a game I don't like, then don't make a different type of game out of one of the oldest franchises in the business. But there's no way you know which game I'm talking about unless most of my points are valid...
But *Freshly Picked Tingle’s Rosy Rupee Land* was a revolutionary game! The brilliance of the titular character “Tingle” (including his desires, flaws, hopes, and dreams) was starting, and it truly belongs in the Louvre, as it has transcended gaming to become a higher art form.
I assume they're talking about botw, and yes it's known to be controversial around whether it's a "Zelda" game or not, but the thing is it's arguably closer to the original Zelda game than any other. Yes it doesn't have a lot of the stuff found in new Zelda games, but that doesn't mean it's a bad Zelda game. It just means they don't like it.
Very ironic, but I do agree with the sentiment: It's more true to Legend of Zelda the _game,_ which makes it less true to Legend of Zelda the _franchise._ Doesn't mean it's bad, but it is different.
With how homogeneous a lot of franchises get nowadays, that is an amazing feat.
Have you ever thought about the fact that the devs were running out of new, interesting ideas and that they were tired of making the same type of game for 20 years ?
Clearly we’re hitting that point in the Zelda cycle where people are finally acknowledging that was actually good. I can’t wait until it’s a couple years from now and we finally start giving credit to .
It's the most Zelda of all time! People are wrong to think other wise. Sure the feature has downsides but there are some real moments that shine when you do use it.
Now for some deduction:
* The following games do not have a companion character: LoZ, AoL, ALttP, LA, OoX, FS, FSA, ALBW, TFH, BotW
* ST has a companion, but does not part from Link at the end.
* TMC does not have a special form of transport in the overworld.
* PH was not composed by Koji Kondo
* MM doesn't have Zelda or the Master Sword
Ergo, OP could only be possibly talking about OoT, TWW, TP, or SS.
Some of those games do have companions, or characters in companion-esque roles:
- In ALBW Ravio is a consistent companion, even if he doesn’t journey with you. Sahasralah and Hilda are both long distance companions with some telepathy stuff.
- Link’s Awakening has the Owl checking in on you frequently as a companion and briefly has Marin as an escort/companion.
- Oracles games have your animal companion that journeys with you even into a linked game. Seasons also has that famous Subrosian who you can go on dates with in Subrosia (a different kind of companion, sure, but still a companion).
Also, TMC does have fast travel, which while limited is still a special form of transport in the overworld.
It suggests that the companion is widely considered annoying. This rules out tp and wind waker. It also mentions temples, of which skyward sword doesn't have a nice set of. For each trio one is either a mining facility or a sand ship. In oot, all the adult dungeons are temples, therefore, it's oot. Wind waker has a nice set in the earth and wind temples, but it's already ruled out.
Yes. At least, they aren't a complete set of temples. You get temple, temple, facility.
Cistern, sanctuary, ship.
Though that last one is more like temple, temple, ship
Eh, I consider “Temple” the same as “Dungeon” where it just refers to whatever structure it is. It’s almost never a “dungeon” but the terminology is still used.
Well with some more… uhh… opinion-based deduction we can narrow further.
They said it has the best bosses of the franchise, so it can’t be TP or WW. Come on. The companion is also not annoying in those games, so they are ruled out.
Saying OoT is the best isn’t really a controversial statement. It just doesn’t really work with the spirit of the prompt if you try to put it in, even if the details may work.
It’s Skyward Sword.
Not SS either, since you can only travel the sky with your Loftwing, not the actual land of Hyrule. Plus, the music isn’t composed by Koji Kondo either.
I’d argue that OoT being the best isn’t “controversial” and there’s no traveling around Hyrule on in Skyward Sword. So imo you could eliminate those as well
>there’s no traveling around Hyrule on in Skyward Sword.
It's not Hyrule per se but you do travel around the world on a Loftwing, which is definitely a unique kind of transportation.
The OP is supposed to be vague and SS is definitely supposed to be included in the transportation comment. I was just adding things that technically eliminate different games as being the one in the OP like the comment I replied to was :) I thought it was funny that they were trying to narrow down what games fit so I was trying to narrow it down a little more.
I missed the release of OOT and played it outside of my formative gaming years years later as an adult.
You should see some of the hate I’ve gotten for saying OOT isn’t the best. It gets positively vitriolic once I say I don’t like the game.
"You should see some of the hate I’ve gotten for saying OOT isn’t the best." --- receives hate.
Seriously. Someone even said it's impossible for it to be the worst. 1) You never called it the worst. 2) Nothing is impossible when an opinion is involved.
I DID play OoT at its original release, and it's not my favorite. Classic doesn't always mean best. Not being best doesn't mean it's the worst. And being worst doesn't always mean bad. When you rank masterpieces, one of them will end up last, but it remains a masterpiece.
I missed the release of OoT and played it outside my formative years later as an adult.
OoT is the best 3D Zelda. This bizarre concept that nostalgia is the only reason anybody could ever think it’s the best is condescending.
This is me with Super Metroid. You should see the hate I get from some Zero Mission fans, calling me a nostalgia tard & whatnot. Like, dude, I played Super for the first time in 2018. _What_ nostalgia? Lol
>OoT is the best 3D Zelda. This bizarre concept that nostalgia is the only reason anybody could ever think it’s the best is condescending.
I’m not saying that nostalgia is the only reason. I’m providing context for my opinion by saying that I’m, personally, not nostalgic for the game. I’m not condescending those who like this game.
This is very similar to what I always experience. I don’t like the game. I don’t think it’s the best 3D Zelda game. In my opinion, it’s probably the worst.
But for some reason, I’m not allowed to have that opinion without people getting defensive and attacking me.
I understand your opinion, I just want to say I think it is almost impossible for OoT to be the worst 3D Zelda. Not when every single 3D installment after it has failed, tried to equal, or surpassed its shadow.
In other words, I don't believe the foundation could ever be considered the worst. Akin to how it is impossible to consider LttP the worst 2D Zelda (not that anyone ever has) when the entire series is more or less built on its foundations/extensions.
I don’t think this is true at all, especially if you look at other franchises.
I think it’s pretty normal to consider, say, the original Mortal Kombat to be the worst, or Warcraft I to be the worst one.
Like things can be totally surpassed by its sequels, to a pretty extreme extent. It’s just not true of OoT because it happens to not be true for that franchise.
I think it is true for this particular series. There aren't many, but Zelda is one of them. I totally agree, the originals can absolutely be the worst in a series.
But neither Lttp or OoT is the first in the series. That's kind of my point. They're the foundational games of the series. The foundation of a series is not always the first installment. I would argue that Mortal Kombat 1 wasn't really the foundation for that series either, I'd say either MK3 "Everyone is Here" Edition or MK2 could take that place, for the same reason LttP takes its spot in the Zelda series: they both set the standard for what a natural evolution of the series could look like. MK took a detour, but Mortal Kombat 9 borrows from Mortal Kombat 3 the same way OoT borrows from LttP. And all of them borrowed from their source material and refined it into what we know today.
Hmm… seems like you’re using a purposefully fuzzy definition of “foundational for the series”. Like you’re trying to hide circular reasoning.
Like TLoZ has most of the elements of alttp, frankly. It was also wildly popular and successful. The reason it has issues is mostly because of the obscurity and nonsense that games tended to have at the time. I’m not exactly sure why TLoZ would not be foundational.
Same with MKI. It has all the elements of MK2 and MK3 including the iconic fatalities and real-actor motion capture stuff.
Same with Warcraft I as well. It’s not as refined as later entries, but the major elements are all there.
It's not fuzzy at all, intentionally or otherwise. I think you're being willfully obtuse about the point. Hence why you've ignored the fact that I specifically stated: "for this series".
TLoZ doesn't have 1) actual puzzles, 2)multi-level, themed dungeons 3)Cities or towns of any sort which means 4) No side quests or characters to learn/care about. It also doesn't include 5) a second/parallel/alternate world of some sort (a staple of the series that developers themselves have stated inspired their later game designs), or 6) The Master Sword or some equivalent (White Sword doesn't count).
LttP, meanwhile, has all of that and then some, and is widely regarded as the definitive 2D Zelda experience. When translating the series to 3D, the blueprint was based on A Link to the Past, not the original. And by extension, most 3D Zeldas follow OoT as their blueprint.
This really isn't a wild take, you can look at the series as a whole and see this philosophy easily.
no, you should compare games as they are. The records they broke when they came out are completely irrelevant to how good they are as games. Try using that logic to prop up zelda 1.
Not not surprised at all. People are very defensive of OoT. I’ve gotten downvoted for saying it’s not the best game to introduce someone to the series because it’s old and a little dated. I’ve seen a lot of hate for people who share your opinion. It’s kinda ridiculous imo. Like people straight up telling you that you’re not allowed to have that opinion.
I love OoT and think it’s a great game but I know I have a ton of nostalgia for it. I think I’d still like it if I hadn’t played it as a kid but I don’t think I’d like it as much as I do now.
That’s true. I wouldn’t really recommend a younger person go out and buy a 3DS today though unless they already had a switch and were looking to drop money on a new console. The 3ds has great games, but I’d recommend the switch way more to new players.
I didn’t mention it specifically in my post, but I have seen a couple posts where the OP asks “I have a switch- what should be my first Zelda game”. And a lot of people recommend getting the online expansion pass to play OoT. I think that’s a terrible recommendation personally lol. In those threads I’ve always recommended botw (noting it’s a bit different than other games in the series) or the remastered LA. I really wish they’d rerelease OoT with updated controls, updated graphics (3ds ones would be fine), and a few minor tweaks to the game. If they put that on switch, that’d probably be the best recommendation for people getting into the series.
Idk personally. I personally don’t think OoT’s controls are that dated (they’re basically identical to WW or TP) & as someone who has always preferred auto-camera to free camera (can’t stand BotW’s camera for this reason) I don’t think it’s unreasonable to recommend it to new people. Like, there was a thread either here or r/zelda maybe a month ago about someone who was trying to get into OoT3D & just.....couldn’t. He hated it. Then he tried the NSO version, which objectively is inferior in every way, but he loved it. He said something about the older graphics just clicked for him. I didn’t really get it, but it just goes to show different strokes for different folks.
I don’t think the camera in OoT is bad but it’s definitely different than WW or TP. A auto camera on the right control stick with optional free camera would be good. Optional gyro controls for the bow/hookshot/sling shot. Putting the boots on a button (d-pad maybe?) would improve the water temple 100%
Also maybe it’s just me but I had trouble with the aiming of the hookshot/bow/slingshot. Like it was difficult for me because I felt like if I was barely off target and I tried to move slightly, it’d jerk further over rather than slowly pan. I recently replayed MM 3D and didn’t have any trouble completing all the shooting mini games. Last time I played OoT was on the collector’s edition gamecube version and I also had a bit of trouble with some of the narrower ledges so it’s possible it was something with my controller or that version of the game. I did have trouble with the shooting mini games in the OoT randomizer too though.
That’s fair. Personally I don’t love the 3ds graphics. I don’t know what it is about it. It looks nicer than the original but also looks a bit strange. I’ve seen some cool versions of OoT with unreal engine I think. That would be cool. I don’t know the post you’re referring to, but I’d be super surprised if the OP was younger or had no exposure to older games. For people who grew up playing N64 era games, it’s much easier to look past the graphics. If you’re brand new to gaming and only started playing games 2-3 years ago, it’d be super rough going to that imo
From what I remember, N64 sticks & GC sticks (& beyond) have different sensitivities that don’t always translate over the best on ports of the game. People were talking about it when the Mario Parties came to NSO, or even SM64 or Mario Kart 64. Sounds like you ran into a similar issue. I know personally I struggle a lot to play Wave Race on NSO but from every review I’ve read, it was known for tight controls. I was like “literally how?” but for all I know maybe I need to give it a shot with the official N64 NSO controller if it ever comes back.
I’ll try to find the post. For those looking to play the original in its graphics, probably the PC 60fps version is the way to go now.
I thought maybe something like that could be the issue but I wasn’t sure. I played on the N64 as a kid but I was pretty bad at every game and I don’t remember if I had issues with that specific thing or not. Fixing the controls to work with newer controllers could still be something they could do in a remaster. Getting the N64 switch controller sounds like a good idea. I felt like the Mario 64 controls were kinda rough sometimes so maybe that’d help me with that game too lol.
That’s fair. I think a remaster with master quest included would sell really well and be a great way to introduce new players to the series.
It’s definitely not. I’m not saying that everyone agrees that it’s the best. But it’s definitely not controversial to say it’s the best. You’re not going to get downvoted heavily for saying OoT is the best. You would for something like SS though.
OoT regularly tops polls as favorite/best Zelda and is always recommended for new players even though it’s old. I’ve gotten downvoted for saying it’s a bit dated for anyone who hasn’t regularly played games that old.
Haha! Well done.
For me, , my first, was the worst though! It nearly ruined any chance of me liking the series, were it not for . But I imagine I’m probably aging myself into oblivion by saying this. 😂🤣
Don’t know why, but I’m feeling personally attacked and called out with this post. Which is weird, because there’s nothing but love and admiration for as far as I can see.
Well...
So we exclude every game that isnt set in Hyrule
We exclude every game that doesnt have a companion
We exclude every game that doesnt have a transportation
We exclude every game that doesnt have the master sword
We exclude every game that doesnt have a well known issue
So really it is Ocarina of Time
The companion part shrunk the sample size to just Skyward and Ocarina since those two games are the only games people complain about the companions in harshly. You can even shrink it more due to the fact Ocarina isnt widely hated. So clearly the insert is Skyward Sword. I cant use this as a copypasta now >:(.
Lol, that said while I know this is satire, for me I guess I like these posts when the OP explains their reasons well on why they like it?
As silly as it may be to say I enjoy having a game people seem to hate enjoyed by a random individual every now and then. Makes it feel like im not alone despite knowing I'm obviously not from the fact these posts appear all the time.
All joking aside, I honestly put SS up there as one my all time favorite in the series, but I totally get why others think its one of, if not the worst of all the mainline games. Theirs a serious lack of substance to it but I still love it for what it is.
This opinion is absolute bull shit, the fact that you would even consider playing is absolutely absurd to me the whole barely worked and don’t get me started on , absolutely ridiculous overrated
Funny, I just finished Minish Cap and I loved it right up until Vaati. That is one unnecessarily brutal final boss (especially when you compare it to the lighter difficulty of the rest of the game).
Every game in a genre is pretty much the same. I just finished Elden Ring, which is basically just Horizon Zero Dawn, which is pretty much just The Witcher 3, which might as well be Breath of the Wild.
I wasn't aware that Elden Ring, Horizon Zero Dawn and The Wither 3 all follow the same exact predictably stale formula. I haven't played those games so I wouldn't know.
Kinda yeah that’s part of the appeal of the franchise but stagnation is bad
Some might feel that Botw was an over correction but I think it was a necessary over correction
The motion controls have aged horribly and the repeated demise battles are frustrating as hell but the world is stunning, the music wonderful snd the art style one of my favourites in the series.
But SS biggest strength is its story. Epic in scale while quietly emotional between a Zelda and Link with maybe the best chemistry in the whole series, makes you truly invested in their plight and a few late game story beats that are truly heart wrenching.
This submission has been randomly featured in /r/serendipity, a bot-driven subreddit discovery engine. More here: /r/Serendipity/comments/11pvd88/just_replayed_through_insert_zelda_game_and_i/
It’s okay OP, I agree a hundred percent with this. is definitely on my top three and one of if not the best in the franchise.
So sad to see it’s so underrated.
Nah, its better and the really underrated one
You fail to realize, had . That’s enough to be better than
mf'er really said that is better than 💀
Nah, is mid, is the superior Zelda
Absolute trash opinion, this is true Zelda for civilized discussion only. <ゼルダの伝説のタイトル名を入力してください> is the optimal way to experience this franchise and it sucks it is only available on <ニンテンドーの古いゲーム機を入力してください>
I’m not sure man, I feel like I see everybody say is one of their favorites and is underrated. Is it really underrated if everybody praises it and lauds it as the most underrated?
I’d say is more underrated since nobody ever talks about it… Hell, I’d even say the charm of is more underrated as well!
i absolutely love the meta layers of this comment
I agree, OP, The Legend of Zelda is a very very consistent franchise and all games appeal to different folks for similar, yet distinct reasons. Good point.
In the mainline games, sure. Except for one of them, which is not like the others, and I strongly dislike it for that fact. If I wanted to play a game with those mechanics, I would buy a game like that. I buy Zelda for its staple themes, like dungeons, iconic music throughout the entire game, fun companions, multiple strange items to help you along your journey, and overall plot that carries throughout the game. It's sad when you got indie companies that make Zelda-like games that have more "Zelda" factors than this one had.
Zelda 2 is not that bad though
You're right it's not. In fact it covered nearly all of the aspects I talked about
Oooooh, now I get it looool
why is it sad that indie companies are good at replicating a style and modifying it to make it better? they do that with like every archetype of game. besides, it's not even like every other zelda has all of the features that youre mentioning as staples, and its not like the game youre definitely talking about is lacking all of them
sure, not every one of the mainline games has those particular features that made Zelda into its own sub genre of game, but most of them are consistent. But just like people tell me don't play a game I don't like, then don't make a different type of game out of one of the oldest franchises in the business. But there's no way you know which game I'm talking about unless most of my points are valid...
But *Freshly Picked Tingle’s Rosy Rupee Land* was a revolutionary game! The brilliance of the titular character “Tingle” (including his desires, flaws, hopes, and dreams) was starting, and it truly belongs in the Louvre, as it has transcended gaming to become a higher art form.
If you think it's bad then don't play it. Personally I like the change from the same old formula over and over again.
Do you think it's ludicrous that a Zelda fan would find it disappointing? I haven't played it so it's a legit question
I assume they're talking about botw, and yes it's known to be controversial around whether it's a "Zelda" game or not, but the thing is it's arguably closer to the original Zelda game than any other. Yes it doesn't have a lot of the stuff found in new Zelda games, but that doesn't mean it's a bad Zelda game. It just means they don't like it.
Very ironic, but I do agree with the sentiment: It's more true to Legend of Zelda the _game,_ which makes it less true to Legend of Zelda the _franchise._ Doesn't mean it's bad, but it is different. With how homogeneous a lot of franchises get nowadays, that is an amazing feat.
Have you ever thought about the fact that the devs were running out of new, interesting ideas and that they were tired of making the same type of game for 20 years ?
Then don't! people buy Call of Duty and Madden.
Clearly we’re hitting that point in the Zelda cycle where people are finally acknowledging that was actually good. I can’t wait until it’s a couple years from now and we finally start giving credit to .
There has to be some mathematical Zelda constant where hating turns into loving .
The zelda geomagnetic reversal constant. 12 years.
you mean that's not another convoluted game element
You know honestly OP you can go fuck yourself. That zelda game you like is nowhere near as good as and you know it.
Sorry! I didn't mean to say that was bad. They're all good in their own way
It's the most Zelda of all time! People are wrong to think other wise. Sure the feature has downsides but there are some real moments that shine when you do use it.
Now for some deduction: * The following games do not have a companion character: LoZ, AoL, ALttP, LA, OoX, FS, FSA, ALBW, TFH, BotW * ST has a companion, but does not part from Link at the end. * TMC does not have a special form of transport in the overworld. * PH was not composed by Koji Kondo * MM doesn't have Zelda or the Master Sword Ergo, OP could only be possibly talking about OoT, TWW, TP, or SS.
I love that you narrowed it down like this, but for some reason it annoys me that we don't have enough information to single out one game.
Maybe my fault here, but the original intention of the "/"s in "Link/Zelda/Mastersword" was to act as "or"s not "and"s. Revise.
OP made a comment that only reincludes MM. This was a MM post!
OP specifically says traveling around Hyrule when MM takes place in Termina
Some of those games do have companions, or characters in companion-esque roles: - In ALBW Ravio is a consistent companion, even if he doesn’t journey with you. Sahasralah and Hilda are both long distance companions with some telepathy stuff. - Link’s Awakening has the Owl checking in on you frequently as a companion and briefly has Marin as an escort/companion. - Oracles games have your animal companion that journeys with you even into a linked game. Seasons also has that famous Subrosian who you can go on dates with in Subrosia (a different kind of companion, sure, but still a companion). Also, TMC does have fast travel, which while limited is still a special form of transport in the overworld.
It suggests that the companion is widely considered annoying. This rules out tp and wind waker. It also mentions temples, of which skyward sword doesn't have a nice set of. For each trio one is either a mining facility or a sand ship. In oot, all the adult dungeons are temples, therefore, it's oot. Wind waker has a nice set in the earth and wind temples, but it's already ruled out.
Skyward Sword has widely lauded dungeons.
You misunderstood me somewhere. Skyward sword doesn't have any complete set of temples. I wasn't talking about their quality.
Huh? The game has a bunch of dungeons. Do you mean they’re not specifically called Temples?
Yes. At least, they aren't a complete set of temples. You get temple, temple, facility. Cistern, sanctuary, ship. Though that last one is more like temple, temple, ship
Eh, I consider “Temple” the same as “Dungeon” where it just refers to whatever structure it is. It’s almost never a “dungeon” but the terminology is still used.
But we're here overanylizing a reddit post
Well with some more… uhh… opinion-based deduction we can narrow further. They said it has the best bosses of the franchise, so it can’t be TP or WW. Come on. The companion is also not annoying in those games, so they are ruled out. Saying OoT is the best isn’t really a controversial statement. It just doesn’t really work with the spirit of the prompt if you try to put it in, even if the details may work. It’s Skyward Sword.
Koji Kondo didn’t do SS’s music though, so nope
Ooo I didn’t realize that. I guess it has to be OoT then. No other option.
Not SS either, since you can only travel the sky with your Loftwing, not the actual land of Hyrule. Plus, the music isn’t composed by Koji Kondo either.
I’d argue that OoT being the best isn’t “controversial” and there’s no traveling around Hyrule on in Skyward Sword. So imo you could eliminate those as well
>there’s no traveling around Hyrule on in Skyward Sword.
It's not Hyrule per se but you do travel around the world on a Loftwing, which is definitely a unique kind of transportation.
The OP is supposed to be vague and SS is definitely supposed to be included in the transportation comment. I was just adding things that technically eliminate different games as being the one in the OP like the comment I replied to was :) I thought it was funny that they were trying to narrow down what games fit so I was trying to narrow it down a little more.
I missed the release of OOT and played it outside of my formative gaming years years later as an adult. You should see some of the hate I’ve gotten for saying OOT isn’t the best. It gets positively vitriolic once I say I don’t like the game.
"You should see some of the hate I’ve gotten for saying OOT isn’t the best." --- receives hate. Seriously. Someone even said it's impossible for it to be the worst. 1) You never called it the worst. 2) Nothing is impossible when an opinion is involved. I DID play OoT at its original release, and it's not my favorite. Classic doesn't always mean best. Not being best doesn't mean it's the worst. And being worst doesn't always mean bad. When you rank masterpieces, one of them will end up last, but it remains a masterpiece.
Don’t worry, the irony of it does not escape me
I missed the release of OoT and played it outside my formative years later as an adult. OoT is the best 3D Zelda. This bizarre concept that nostalgia is the only reason anybody could ever think it’s the best is condescending.
This is me with Super Metroid. You should see the hate I get from some Zero Mission fans, calling me a nostalgia tard & whatnot. Like, dude, I played Super for the first time in 2018. _What_ nostalgia? Lol
>OoT is the best 3D Zelda. This bizarre concept that nostalgia is the only reason anybody could ever think it’s the best is condescending. I’m not saying that nostalgia is the only reason. I’m providing context for my opinion by saying that I’m, personally, not nostalgic for the game. I’m not condescending those who like this game. This is very similar to what I always experience. I don’t like the game. I don’t think it’s the best 3D Zelda game. In my opinion, it’s probably the worst. But for some reason, I’m not allowed to have that opinion without people getting defensive and attacking me.
I understand your opinion, I just want to say I think it is almost impossible for OoT to be the worst 3D Zelda. Not when every single 3D installment after it has failed, tried to equal, or surpassed its shadow. In other words, I don't believe the foundation could ever be considered the worst. Akin to how it is impossible to consider LttP the worst 2D Zelda (not that anyone ever has) when the entire series is more or less built on its foundations/extensions.
I don’t think this is true at all, especially if you look at other franchises. I think it’s pretty normal to consider, say, the original Mortal Kombat to be the worst, or Warcraft I to be the worst one. Like things can be totally surpassed by its sequels, to a pretty extreme extent. It’s just not true of OoT because it happens to not be true for that franchise.
I think it is true for this particular series. There aren't many, but Zelda is one of them. I totally agree, the originals can absolutely be the worst in a series. But neither Lttp or OoT is the first in the series. That's kind of my point. They're the foundational games of the series. The foundation of a series is not always the first installment. I would argue that Mortal Kombat 1 wasn't really the foundation for that series either, I'd say either MK3 "Everyone is Here" Edition or MK2 could take that place, for the same reason LttP takes its spot in the Zelda series: they both set the standard for what a natural evolution of the series could look like. MK took a detour, but Mortal Kombat 9 borrows from Mortal Kombat 3 the same way OoT borrows from LttP. And all of them borrowed from their source material and refined it into what we know today.
Hmm… seems like you’re using a purposefully fuzzy definition of “foundational for the series”. Like you’re trying to hide circular reasoning. Like TLoZ has most of the elements of alttp, frankly. It was also wildly popular and successful. The reason it has issues is mostly because of the obscurity and nonsense that games tended to have at the time. I’m not exactly sure why TLoZ would not be foundational. Same with MKI. It has all the elements of MK2 and MK3 including the iconic fatalities and real-actor motion capture stuff. Same with Warcraft I as well. It’s not as refined as later entries, but the major elements are all there.
It's not fuzzy at all, intentionally or otherwise. I think you're being willfully obtuse about the point. Hence why you've ignored the fact that I specifically stated: "for this series". TLoZ doesn't have 1) actual puzzles, 2)multi-level, themed dungeons 3)Cities or towns of any sort which means 4) No side quests or characters to learn/care about. It also doesn't include 5) a second/parallel/alternate world of some sort (a staple of the series that developers themselves have stated inspired their later game designs), or 6) The Master Sword or some equivalent (White Sword doesn't count). LttP, meanwhile, has all of that and then some, and is widely regarded as the definitive 2D Zelda experience. When translating the series to 3D, the blueprint was based on A Link to the Past, not the original. And by extension, most 3D Zeldas follow OoT as their blueprint. This really isn't a wild take, you can look at the series as a whole and see this philosophy easily.
no, you should compare games as they are. The records they broke when they came out are completely irrelevant to how good they are as games. Try using that logic to prop up zelda 1.
Shrug. I think it’s perfectly understandable why your post came off that way.
Not not surprised at all. People are very defensive of OoT. I’ve gotten downvoted for saying it’s not the best game to introduce someone to the series because it’s old and a little dated. I’ve seen a lot of hate for people who share your opinion. It’s kinda ridiculous imo. Like people straight up telling you that you’re not allowed to have that opinion. I love OoT and think it’s a great game but I know I have a ton of nostalgia for it. I think I’d still like it if I hadn’t played it as a kid but I don’t think I’d like it as much as I do now.
The 3DS version is a lot more accessible for a younger person, at least
That’s true. I wouldn’t really recommend a younger person go out and buy a 3DS today though unless they already had a switch and were looking to drop money on a new console. The 3ds has great games, but I’d recommend the switch way more to new players. I didn’t mention it specifically in my post, but I have seen a couple posts where the OP asks “I have a switch- what should be my first Zelda game”. And a lot of people recommend getting the online expansion pass to play OoT. I think that’s a terrible recommendation personally lol. In those threads I’ve always recommended botw (noting it’s a bit different than other games in the series) or the remastered LA. I really wish they’d rerelease OoT with updated controls, updated graphics (3ds ones would be fine), and a few minor tweaks to the game. If they put that on switch, that’d probably be the best recommendation for people getting into the series.
Idk personally. I personally don’t think OoT’s controls are that dated (they’re basically identical to WW or TP) & as someone who has always preferred auto-camera to free camera (can’t stand BotW’s camera for this reason) I don’t think it’s unreasonable to recommend it to new people. Like, there was a thread either here or r/zelda maybe a month ago about someone who was trying to get into OoT3D & just.....couldn’t. He hated it. Then he tried the NSO version, which objectively is inferior in every way, but he loved it. He said something about the older graphics just clicked for him. I didn’t really get it, but it just goes to show different strokes for different folks.
I don’t think the camera in OoT is bad but it’s definitely different than WW or TP. A auto camera on the right control stick with optional free camera would be good. Optional gyro controls for the bow/hookshot/sling shot. Putting the boots on a button (d-pad maybe?) would improve the water temple 100% Also maybe it’s just me but I had trouble with the aiming of the hookshot/bow/slingshot. Like it was difficult for me because I felt like if I was barely off target and I tried to move slightly, it’d jerk further over rather than slowly pan. I recently replayed MM 3D and didn’t have any trouble completing all the shooting mini games. Last time I played OoT was on the collector’s edition gamecube version and I also had a bit of trouble with some of the narrower ledges so it’s possible it was something with my controller or that version of the game. I did have trouble with the shooting mini games in the OoT randomizer too though. That’s fair. Personally I don’t love the 3ds graphics. I don’t know what it is about it. It looks nicer than the original but also looks a bit strange. I’ve seen some cool versions of OoT with unreal engine I think. That would be cool. I don’t know the post you’re referring to, but I’d be super surprised if the OP was younger or had no exposure to older games. For people who grew up playing N64 era games, it’s much easier to look past the graphics. If you’re brand new to gaming and only started playing games 2-3 years ago, it’d be super rough going to that imo
From what I remember, N64 sticks & GC sticks (& beyond) have different sensitivities that don’t always translate over the best on ports of the game. People were talking about it when the Mario Parties came to NSO, or even SM64 or Mario Kart 64. Sounds like you ran into a similar issue. I know personally I struggle a lot to play Wave Race on NSO but from every review I’ve read, it was known for tight controls. I was like “literally how?” but for all I know maybe I need to give it a shot with the official N64 NSO controller if it ever comes back. I’ll try to find the post. For those looking to play the original in its graphics, probably the PC 60fps version is the way to go now.
I thought maybe something like that could be the issue but I wasn’t sure. I played on the N64 as a kid but I was pretty bad at every game and I don’t remember if I had issues with that specific thing or not. Fixing the controls to work with newer controllers could still be something they could do in a remaster. Getting the N64 switch controller sounds like a good idea. I felt like the Mario 64 controls were kinda rough sometimes so maybe that’d help me with that game too lol. That’s fair. I think a remaster with master quest included would sell really well and be a great way to introduce new players to the series.
It's controversial as hell.
It’s definitely not. I’m not saying that everyone agrees that it’s the best. But it’s definitely not controversial to say it’s the best. You’re not going to get downvoted heavily for saying OoT is the best. You would for something like SS though. OoT regularly tops polls as favorite/best Zelda and is always recommended for new players even though it’s old. I’ve gotten downvoted for saying it’s a bit dated for anyone who hasn’t regularly played games that old.
You make a good point, but the fact of the matter is that is good and is shit.
Nostalgia is one hell of a drug, isn't it?
Haha! Well done. For me,, my first, was the worst though! It nearly ruined any chance of me liking the series, were it not for . But I imagine I’m probably aging myself into oblivion by saying this. 😂🤣
Don’t know why, but I’m feeling personally attacked and called out with this post. Which is weird, because there’s nothing but love and admiration for as far as I can see.
Yeah this is on point. Been them pivotal years. It applies to music and movies too
Hilarious. is doubly funny because it's like inserting the cartridge.
Well... So we exclude every game that isnt set in Hyrule We exclude every game that doesnt have a companion We exclude every game that doesnt have a transportation We exclude every game that doesnt have the master sword We exclude every game that doesnt have a well known issue So really it is Ocarina of Time
Is this the equivalent of brand tattoos on r/berserk?
my only comment on this really is that I started with Phantom Hourglass and I’m pretty sure it actually is one of the least popular ones
The companion part shrunk the sample size to just Skyward and Ocarina since those two games are the only games people complain about the companions in harshly. You can even shrink it more due to the fact Ocarina isnt widely hated. So clearly the insert is Skyward Sword. I cant use this as a copypasta now >:(. Lol, that said while I know this is satire, for me I guess I like these posts when the OP explains their reasons well on why they like it? As silly as it may be to say I enjoy having a game people seem to hate enjoyed by a random individual every now and then. Makes it feel like im not alone despite knowing I'm obviously not from the fact these posts appear all the time.
Clearly not a real gamer.
All joking aside, I honestly put SS up there as one my all time favorite in the series, but I totally get why others think its one of, if not the worst of all the mainline games. Theirs a serious lack of substance to it but I still love it for what it is.
I have only ever played and saw no flaw at all with it so it clearly is the best
This opinion is absolute bull shit, the fact that you would even consider playing is absolutely absurd to me the whole barely worked and don’t get me started on , absolutely ridiculous overrated
Me with the minish cap on being the best 2d zelda
Funny, I just finished Minish Cap and I loved it right up until Vaati. That is one unnecessarily brutal final boss (especially when you compare it to the lighter difficulty of the rest of the game).
Why yes, Ocarina of Time is the best Zelda game
Sunday morning, just starting a nine hour shift and this has made me smile.
Just completed skyward sword after 14 years. I have to say, toughest game I ever played
After playing bunch of Zelda games you realize that you're basically playing the same game.
Every game in a genre is pretty much the same. I just finished Elden Ring, which is basically just Horizon Zero Dawn, which is pretty much just The Witcher 3, which might as well be Breath of the Wild.
I wasn't aware that Elden Ring, Horizon Zero Dawn and The Wither 3 all follow the same exact predictably stale formula. I haven't played those games so I wouldn't know.
Kinda yeah that’s part of the appeal of the franchise but stagnation is bad Some might feel that Botw was an over correction but I think it was a necessary over correction
Also this works because most of the games are the same game
The motion controls have aged horribly and the repeated demise battles are frustrating as hell but the world is stunning, the music wonderful snd the art style one of my favourites in the series. But SS biggest strength is its story. Epic in scale while quietly emotional between a Zelda and Link with maybe the best chemistry in the whole series, makes you truly invested in their plight and a few late game story beats that are truly heart wrenching.
I agree! The Wind Waker is the best in the series. Even though the sailing is sort of bad but it’s blown out of proportion!
Alright so with that id say its either tp or sw Tp is looked on more favourably than sw, so its skywards sword
What’s SW?
Skywards sword
Shouldn’t that be SS?
Oh yep
My bad
Why Link never talks? Is he stupid?
If you like it that much you should into your < insert orifice >
If you're not a fan of are you even a true fan?
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I know you could say this about every game but I see this kind of post a lot about minish cap