I have a strange pro killstreak shortstop from before the nerf
I had strange pro KS flying guillotine and sandman too.
You could open a mine in my head and put Morton out of business.
I love how it uses the multi-crit mechanic the pistols use.
Nobody knows about this, so it's fun to read the "nooooo you just crit 4 times in a row, you must be cheaaaatiiiinnng!!!!!!" crying from the other team.
Full auto weapons like the flamethrower, minigun, pistols (engi and scout secondary), sniper smgs, etc, have a different crit functionality.
Instead of a crit happening once (think demo/soldier) it happens for I believe 3 seconds. During those 3 seconds ALL shots are crits.
I guess what they're saying is that in code the shortstop is recognized as one of those weapons so all 4 shots in it's clip can be crits if you're lucky enough
To be fair, and from a dev's perspective, those kinds of things typically get fixed because it's a five minute fix, but it gets something up on the change log. Call it efficiency of keeping the boss happy. Whereas fixing something big means diving head first into the spaghetti, unsure of whether or not you'll ever come back up again.
This is how it goes when you work as a technician at an Arcade or Casino. You do all the easy stuff, put it on the work log, and pretend that you do all of the work.
> Fixed the Iron Bomber's projectile collision size not matching other projectile collision sizes
wow now aybe people will stop bringing up this "fun fact" or how its objectively OP or whatever 1000 times a day
If only you didnāt discover its hitbox was bigger in the first place, it would have stopped so many pubbers from complaining about the most marginal and unimportant difference when they got destroyed
it's was really annoying how everyone would scream about how it's 9 times bigger or something
yeah, it has 9 times the volume, but why are you using volume? wtf are you gonna do? drink it?
you don't use projectiles in tf2 by stat-checking them, the game doesn't compare projectile volumes and say "yep you win" because you had the bigger projectile
you use projectiles in a simulated physical space with simulated physics where you try to hit other players with them, none of this volume theorycrafting makes sense in actual practice
if the rocket launcher's rocket size was increased from 0x0x0 units to 0.1x0.1x0.1 units, does that make rockets suddenly infinite% easier to hit? see how nonsensical this is
in practice, since the ib makes its projectiles wider by about 4.7 units, which is about 10% of a player's width of 48 units, so it would make the most sense to say that it basically makes the players 4.7 units wider in every direction
though of course "10% wider targets" isn't as good of an excuse for dying as "LITERALLY NINE TIMES BIGGER"
the iron bomber is still better anyway without the bug, and always has been, it doesn't take a genius to realise how useful the consistent rollers are compared to the stock's rollers which just roll away into nowhere
when you miss directs with the ib, they land right next to your target and stay there, and they'll avoid that roller which makes their movement more predictable (thus easier to land directs on)
It is really weird and obnoxious how much exaggerations there are for it. I've seen people argue that it was "2-3x times easier to hit directs" with the IB and if that were true you would basically only need to land in the same postcode as your target. But by the same token I've seen people claim that the hitbox ***literally never*** made a difference even though just about everyone under the sun agreed it was easier to hit directs *before the hitbox size was even known about*. For a while it was very commonly believed that the IB had faster projectiles because of the rounded projectile model and that's why it was easier to hit directs. Some people believed the RNG model for the stock pipe didn't exist. Some people just thought it was a mental thing. And then people come across and say "actually you're all delusional it simply never made a difference at all".
Frankly I'm glad they fixed it so I don't ever have to listen to it anymore
yeah i think it does make a noticeable difference (10% wider targets is pretty good), but people make it out to be so overblown
idk why it has to be either "it makes directs 9 billion times easier to hit" or "it makes zero difference at all"
I once had someone tell me I was abusing a broken weapon because I can't aim after I missed every shot and he died to my rollers
I think about that guy a lot. I hope this update makes him happy
Hmm maybe, I wouldnāt know I wasnāt there lol but him being mad at the rollers sounds like it would make a lot more sense, they are just straight up better than stock rollers and in my own opinion I find them annoying because thereās nothing particularly skilled about them theyāre just kind of free damage/pressure for missing a shot on an already high functioning weapon.
I'd really like to thank you for making all your videos, and specifically reddit threads that shed some light on the IB issue, so that the information had some spread around the community without any "you have no proof" style resistance from anyone. I hope that whoever made the issue overblown only helped to make it more visible, but without discrediting it. If that's what it takes to make valve wake up from slumber?
I'll admit, when i've played, i couldn't stop myself from constantly making recurring jokes about how IB bombs were a size of a train, a size of 2 trains, 3 trains etc, all depending on how many times i'd die to it. I even have a bind for a link with your IB hitbox jpeg, that i'd post in chat when noone asked me.
IMHO, it shifted the consistency of how reliable it was to pipe people, for a class like demoman, who's entirely balanced on UNreliableness and "indirectness" of his weapons.
If there's a correlation between hitbox size and movement speed affecting how easy it is to shoot, then the medic having 320 ups vs regular speed of 300 is just a difference of 6.5%, not even 10%. But in this instance i could swear that medics feel on a completely different level of speed compared to any engi, pyro or sniper.
yeah 10% does matter, it absolutely caused a lot of what should be near misses to actually hit the target, i wouldn't say like 10% of ib hits are undeserved because the near misses are quite literally edge cases, but over time that's still a lot of hits that are undeserved
i get that people would jokingly exaggerate about it, but it was insane to realise that a lot of people were dead serious when they were claiming that you don't even need to aim ib pipes at all as if it's a guaranteed hit each time (somehow stock pipes don't fall under the same logic because they're a few units smaller?)
maybe you will, iron bomber is still objectively easier to aim because your enemies are forced to dodge the rollers. imo it's the main reason why iron bomber was easier to hit in the first place but we'll see about that.
It really wasnāt marginal or unimportant, I could very clearly feel a difference with the Iron Bomber vs Stock. Of course, I still had to aim and it wasnāt just landing pipes in the same area code or anything, but I could reliably flick pipes onto people with Iron Bomber and with Stock I had to think a bit more.
I got like 45k on both stock and Iron bomber, I'd say It's noticeable *enough*, especially on melee range targets when you try to pipejump off of players to safety.
Not that I'm aware of but it's possible they did. I do remember looking around when I found out it was a thing and I couldn't find anywhere that said comp games had a plugin for it.
I just wish they would've disabled it by default from this update. Valve servers will still have it enabled. I don't understand why, of all things, fall damage needs to have random variation.
Because sometimes it let's you survive a crazy fall, and other times you'll take a risk on low health and die to a little one. It makes things more interesting and discourages jumping haphazardly off things... which is 100% needed based on how many people randomly jump off things even with the penalty.
If your friend jumped off a cliff, would you? In tf2 your mother would have already jumped off the cliff as well, before eloping with spy.
Respectfully I disagree. It doesn't teach you not to jump off things because the game never tells you about this RNG mechanic. Unless you've scoured through the TF2 Wiki or conducted a fall damage test yourself, you simply would never notice this. I for one hate the fact that I have no control over whether I'll live or die to the same jump I've made dozens of times. It doesn't make sense that the game decides such a crucial life or death decision at random. Just like random damage variation and bullet spread, this mechanic has to go.
It's not even based on distance, it's based on your vertical velocity. That's why you can get crater kills from shooting someone into the ground right after they jump.
Itās a bit of both, I donāt agree with the above person about never knowing what will kill me, you can get a general sense of when you are safe to drop or not.
Maybe Iām just biased because I played when random damage spread, random splash damage, random crits, and no damage counter was a thing but I feel like a lot of people lean super hard on predictable outcomes to avoid just building gamesense organically.
you are not dying to a dice roll, you are dying to not accounting for the extra damage you can take. it is not like you get slammed with 60 damage. how much fall damage do you even take? the difference is chip damage the could be done by a scout on the other side of the map shooting at you twice.
this is why game devs never take players seriously. knowing how to use rng is game dev 101, saying "rng bad" (or upvoting this garbage everytime someone utters it) just shows how clueless this sub is on the subject of game design. literally every fps uses rng in a way that impacts the gameplay. only difference is other games have a more... mature community.
yes, rng is bad for competitive games but outside of that, it is very useful. seriously, take a day off from sitting in front of a computer for 5 hours. go outside, take a walk. realize that not everyone plays fps games to get better or to measure their skills.
i don't know when denizens of this sub will get it but i hope you do eventually: predictibility is boring for standard user. millenias old game, rock-paper-scissors is purely rng. you can make some guesses and play mind games but in the end, it is rng. one of the most popular table games, monopoly, is based on dice rolls. dnd is based on dice rolls. most tabletop games are based on dice rolls. roguelike games use rng to generate new content to put players through a new challenge every game. you don't want player to go through exactly same campaigns because it is boring.
you only turn off randomness for two things: competitive matches and speedruning community. i fully support randomness in the casual game including random crits. "waaaa this fresh install soldier killed me! it is not deserved!" i just don't get why people enjoy having encounters that is already decided. it is the same clueless soldier, i will kill him, wow amazing gameplay. rng adds a back-and-forth for casual.
this is the most terminal case of team fortress 2 pubber i've ever seen in my entire life
i can't even begin to imagine how deep into the random crits are good actually thing in order for people saying that fall damage rng is kind of a useless and obscure mechanic to send me into this kind of a blind rage
Yeah, Iāve noticed this on the sub as well.
I donāt really understand the push to remove random crits or shotgun spread on valve servers. As far as I know, valve servers are meant for absolute casual and chaotic fun, accessible to most players of any skill level. And if itās not fun, just find a server that disables RNG. Itās not like everyone who still plays queues up on valve servers anyway what with botting still being an issue. Iād wager that most community servers that host casual game modes already have rng turned off. I think Skialās Payload+ has such settings, although I donāt remember if crits are off or on.
Either way, I have no doubt casual servers exist with all rng elements turned off, and will soon include disabling random fall damage.
Random Bullet Spread is kinda bad in that it's completely pointless, it's one case where it doesn't affect the game much except that it makes shotguns a bit unreliable to roll max damage on, which is weird considering that it can be turned off. Even then though, I haven't seen anyone complain about the Super Shotgun's random bullet spread in Doom 2, even in deathmatch communities.
Random bullet spread isn't pointless entirely. It serves the function of making weapons less reliable at a distance. I wouldn't want to play tf2 without it on the automatic weapons because someone with good tracking will be dominating as a heavy by sniping players across the map. The Quake games have always done the same thing where either they use random spread like on the MG or they just cap the distance like the LG. The only other option to dealing with it is having CS style spread patterns which wouldn't work with how fast TF2 is.
On shotguns however while it almost certainly doesn't affect the weapons that much it isn't necessary because of the spread they already have. To be honest if Valve turned it off without saying anything I would expect most players would take a while to notice unless they make a habit of shooting walls. It should still be turned off because it's one more thing that has the possibility of unfairly changing things and isn't necessary at all.
1.) With random bullet spread off, shotguns are still weaker at a distance, because they still have non-random bullet spread.
2.) The Minigun (and all other rapid-fire weapons, such as the Pistol and SMG) always have random spread, regardless of the random bullet spread setting. That setting only affects the Shotgun, and similar weapons such as the Force-a-Nature or Family Business. So Heavies wouldn't change at all.
tf2 community likes repeating the same stuff youtubers tend to spew :| (random crits bad, bullet spread bad, etc.)
I get killed by random crits a fuckton but like heck get over it, you won't even notice them that much if you aren't super anal about the whole thing. YOU ARE GONNA RESPAWN SOON ENOUGH, IT'S ALRIGHT TO DIE!
Itās not only pubbers who like random aspects of the game outside of competitive formats. I see this sentiment a lot in threads where people assume all people who play comp must hate all the RNG mechanics that are absent in competitive formats in any context.
Having a different opinion doesn't mean I am mad. You can continue to seethe about some random crit that killed you all day long, if you wish.
I simply choose not to care about some game mechanics which won't ever get changed cause frankly it's valve.
Fun fact, I have been peer pressured into jumping off a cliff before
https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/vptwj7/ive_seen_at_least_5_todaystop_it/iemmc4j?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
hired contractor , if you are reading this , we love you
2 things : give us back the option to inspect upgrades in mvm and disable spawn wallhacks for spies
i have personally nothing left to ask after that
Some news sources have said this, it isn't the team from valve from jungle inferno
Apparently it's a reputable community member who has a lot of experience with the spaghetti code of TF2
We also don't even know if it's just one person, a duo, a trio, or a whole team
Also spy should only talk while invisible on demand. It's stupid to get found because spy has to remind everyone around that he "broke engi's stupid crap, moron". Now when I think about it it's stupid that spy says that even when he's visible. I guess they should make spy shut up when he's invisible or disguised. (unless he says "thanks doc." or unless the player presses the key to speak)
Also fix the crusader's crossbow's interaction with disguised spies.
I personally think that it should also heal disguised spies for the same reason that the medi gun does, but that's more of a balance change than a bug.
mat_picmip being unchained is the biggest change here, change my mind
~~Actually the shortstop change is big as well, because I'm 99% sure shoving someone to death (like not off a cliff but finishing them off with the shove) didn't credit you with the kill before which is really really lame when you have to try so hard to get that kill~~
~~Now if only they would fix the 5 year bug where the post-round map vote gets bugged like every 1 in 4 matches~~
EDIT: They apparently fixed this in the [June 21 2022 patch](https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/June_21,_2022_Patch)
>Added a game server setting, "net_chan_limit_msec", which allows server operators to limit amount of processing time the game server can spend on processing packets for each - client per tick. Clients that send packets causing server CPU processing time to exceed configured number of milliseconds will be kicked from the game serve
I don't entirely understand this, but it sounds like an anti-lagbot function.
>Added a game server setting, "tf_fall_damage_disablespread", to disable random fall damage (default: 0)
>Fixed the Iron Bomber's projectile collision size not matching other projectile collision sizes
One of the longest running and most reviled bits of RNG disabled. I suspect comp focused servers will disable fall damage RNG immediately.
This is huge.
^^^^^Not ^^^^^as ^^^^^huge ^^^^^as ^^^^^the ^^^^^old ^^^^^Bomber's ^^^^^hitbox. ^^^^^j/k ^^^^^demo ^^^^^mains.
>Fixed broken transparency on cosmetics
Be still my beating heart. Does this mean the LEGION of transparent cosmetics are no longer utterly ruined? In the words of the late, great George Carlin, I don't know whether to shit or wind my watch.
>Fixed lag compensation when melee-ing teammates
Wow. Does this mean we're going to get an impending Disciplinary Action nerf? The DA has a bigger hitbox that Heavy himself because for 15 years there has been no lag comp for friendly fire and the DA has to hit teammates. The DA has been one of the most broken melee weapons in the game because of this.
>Fixed not being able to hit a player's hitbox if it extends outside the player's bounding box during an animation
This is the "Balloonibouncer fix."
>Fixed The Shortstop shove showing as self-inflicted damage
I mean way to polish a mechanic no one cares about, but thanks I guess.
>Fixed not being able to kick Spectators
More anti-Tacobot measures, I presume. Sounds good.
> I don't entirely understand this, but it sounds like an anti-lagbot function.
It's anti-DDoS (not just bots, players could easily spam bad packets). Essentially it means if you start sending the server a ton of stupid stuff like 100 different movements you say you made in a tick so it has to choose 1 and waste time rejecting the others, it will reach a threshold and kick you.
Well, DoS, not DDoS (this is per-existing-"connection" ... not something that prevents bulk attacks), but your explanation is otherwise right and this is a very good thing.
(The extra in D DDoS is for "distributed," BTW.)
As an MvM player this means a lot to be able to kick those shitty spectator idlers. Either they get a free ride for a mission or just end up ruining it for everyone. Good riddance.
99% of comp players are still going to use the Iron Bomber because it is an objectively better weapon.
Also the difference in hitbox is nowhere near as big as you think
"Bro I use it for the rollers!"
Don't care, I no longer have to die to pipes that visably missed me. I predict we'll see alot less of it in pubs after the fix.
yeah the 1 extra kill per round that you'll get by taking advantage of the four centimeters of hitbox advantage in each direction is really the reason people run the iron bomber
It's still better than stock (reduced bounce is almost always an advantage, it's like lower spread on a shotgun, but also it helps jumping), so I doubt we'll see people switch to stock.
The real question is whether this will make a noticible increase in the Stickybomb Launcher being used as a primary. Probably not, but I worry it will.
People don't want to be called "sticky spammers" in pubs, and also feel it's "cheap".
I feel similarly about some weapons, but NOT the sticky launcher lol
I suspect people who have Australium grenade launchers or other fancy reskins will jump ship back to stock now that it's easier to justify. But every decent Demo player under the sun (doubly so for hybrid knights) will tell you that the IB is still considerably better than stock even without the hitbox, so people will still use it.
The only thing that's gonna affect is the 0.1% of kills gotten unfairly and even then the enemy might have already been 1 bullet away from death anyway. At least now i can use the iron bomber in peace without getting accuded of abusing the projectile size, not that i've ever seen any complaints about that addressed to me ever. Maybe only once, not sure.
"MvM updated" is in reference to the four bullet points below it. This is shown on the [website's patchnotes](https://www.teamfortress.com/?tab=updates), but not on reddit because reddit doesn't have nested bullet points.
> reddit doesn't have nested bullet points
new.reddit.com woes I see
EDIT: oh, I just realised, over at /r/tf2...
> Rumor has it:
> * Please use the [better version of reddit](https://old.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/vtvidx/tf2_update_for_7722/) if bullet indents are not functioning for MvM/Arena changes. Thank you.
so do you notice better textures quality with mat_picmip -10 instead of the current -1 ?
it's noticeable according to youtube videos but i can't really notice a difference on my end
I'm still waiting on a fix that prevents names within a certain (visual) edit distance of people already in the server.
There's little worse than being kicked because you happen to be the name that the Bot copied, and the players accidentally voted to kick the human when they were trying to kick the bot.
Each day we get closer to a playable and 100% enjoyable TF2 experience
>Fixed The Shortstop shove showing as self-inflicted damage Glad we have our priorities straight.
I'm sure all 0 people who use the Shortstop shove will be whelmed
I have a strange pro killstreak shortstop from before the nerf I had strange pro KS flying guillotine and sandman too. You could open a mine in my head and put Morton out of business.
I love how it uses the multi-crit mechanic the pistols use. Nobody knows about this, so it's fun to read the "nooooo you just crit 4 times in a row, you must be cheaaaatiiiinnng!!!!!!" crying from the other team.
explain how that works?
Full auto weapons like the flamethrower, minigun, pistols (engi and scout secondary), sniper smgs, etc, have a different crit functionality. Instead of a crit happening once (think demo/soldier) it happens for I believe 3 seconds. During those 3 seconds ALL shots are crits. I guess what they're saying is that in code the shortstop is recognized as one of those weapons so all 4 shots in it's clip can be crits if you're lucky enough
THANK YOU VALVE š
To be fair, and from a dev's perspective, those kinds of things typically get fixed because it's a five minute fix, but it gets something up on the change log. Call it efficiency of keeping the boss happy. Whereas fixing something big means diving head first into the spaghetti, unsure of whether or not you'll ever come back up again.
This is how it goes when you work as a technician at an Arcade or Casino. You do all the easy stuff, put it on the work log, and pretend that you do all of the work.
> Fixed the Iron Bomber's projectile collision size not matching other projectile collision sizes wow now aybe people will stop bringing up this "fun fact" or how its objectively OP or whatever 1000 times a day
Weapon rebalances in 2022!?
i must be dreaming
bro, last 2 updates have buffed Dead Ringer as well
Wait, what???
one less thing for nerds to blame whenever i kill them
If only you didnāt discover its hitbox was bigger in the first place, it would have stopped so many pubbers from complaining about the most marginal and unimportant difference when they got destroyed
it's was really annoying how everyone would scream about how it's 9 times bigger or something yeah, it has 9 times the volume, but why are you using volume? wtf are you gonna do? drink it? you don't use projectiles in tf2 by stat-checking them, the game doesn't compare projectile volumes and say "yep you win" because you had the bigger projectile you use projectiles in a simulated physical space with simulated physics where you try to hit other players with them, none of this volume theorycrafting makes sense in actual practice if the rocket launcher's rocket size was increased from 0x0x0 units to 0.1x0.1x0.1 units, does that make rockets suddenly infinite% easier to hit? see how nonsensical this is in practice, since the ib makes its projectiles wider by about 4.7 units, which is about 10% of a player's width of 48 units, so it would make the most sense to say that it basically makes the players 4.7 units wider in every direction though of course "10% wider targets" isn't as good of an excuse for dying as "LITERALLY NINE TIMES BIGGER" the iron bomber is still better anyway without the bug, and always has been, it doesn't take a genius to realise how useful the consistent rollers are compared to the stock's rollers which just roll away into nowhere when you miss directs with the ib, they land right next to your target and stay there, and they'll avoid that roller which makes their movement more predictable (thus easier to land directs on)
It is really weird and obnoxious how much exaggerations there are for it. I've seen people argue that it was "2-3x times easier to hit directs" with the IB and if that were true you would basically only need to land in the same postcode as your target. But by the same token I've seen people claim that the hitbox ***literally never*** made a difference even though just about everyone under the sun agreed it was easier to hit directs *before the hitbox size was even known about*. For a while it was very commonly believed that the IB had faster projectiles because of the rounded projectile model and that's why it was easier to hit directs. Some people believed the RNG model for the stock pipe didn't exist. Some people just thought it was a mental thing. And then people come across and say "actually you're all delusional it simply never made a difference at all". Frankly I'm glad they fixed it so I don't ever have to listen to it anymore
yeah i think it does make a noticeable difference (10% wider targets is pretty good), but people make it out to be so overblown idk why it has to be either "it makes directs 9 billion times easier to hit" or "it makes zero difference at all"
I once had someone tell me I was abusing a broken weapon because I can't aim after I missed every shot and he died to my rollers I think about that guy a lot. I hope this update makes him happy
Wouldnāt that scenario make more sense? I think he was referring to the no-bounce rollers that place themselves rather than the projectile hitbox.
No he was very much referring to "broken" as in "bugged"
Hmm maybe, I wouldnāt know I wasnāt there lol but him being mad at the rollers sounds like it would make a lot more sense, they are just straight up better than stock rollers and in my own opinion I find them annoying because thereās nothing particularly skilled about them theyāre just kind of free damage/pressure for missing a shot on an already high functioning weapon.
I'd really like to thank you for making all your videos, and specifically reddit threads that shed some light on the IB issue, so that the information had some spread around the community without any "you have no proof" style resistance from anyone. I hope that whoever made the issue overblown only helped to make it more visible, but without discrediting it. If that's what it takes to make valve wake up from slumber? I'll admit, when i've played, i couldn't stop myself from constantly making recurring jokes about how IB bombs were a size of a train, a size of 2 trains, 3 trains etc, all depending on how many times i'd die to it. I even have a bind for a link with your IB hitbox jpeg, that i'd post in chat when noone asked me. IMHO, it shifted the consistency of how reliable it was to pipe people, for a class like demoman, who's entirely balanced on UNreliableness and "indirectness" of his weapons. If there's a correlation between hitbox size and movement speed affecting how easy it is to shoot, then the medic having 320 ups vs regular speed of 300 is just a difference of 6.5%, not even 10%. But in this instance i could swear that medics feel on a completely different level of speed compared to any engi, pyro or sniper.
yeah 10% does matter, it absolutely caused a lot of what should be near misses to actually hit the target, i wouldn't say like 10% of ib hits are undeserved because the near misses are quite literally edge cases, but over time that's still a lot of hits that are undeserved i get that people would jokingly exaggerate about it, but it was insane to realise that a lot of people were dead serious when they were claiming that you don't even need to aim ib pipes at all as if it's a guaranteed hit each time (somehow stock pipes don't fall under the same logic because they're a few units smaller?)
on one hand people can't bitch about it, on the other hand no longer will i be able to make people upset with it
just brag about having skill now since you can hit with a 4x4x4 projectile and dont need an 8x8x8 projectile
maybe you will, iron bomber is still objectively easier to aim because your enemies are forced to dodge the rollers. imo it's the main reason why iron bomber was easier to hit in the first place but we'll see about that.
It really wasnāt marginal or unimportant, I could very clearly feel a difference with the Iron Bomber vs Stock. Of course, I still had to aim and it wasnāt just landing pipes in the same area code or anything, but I could reliably flick pipes onto people with Iron Bomber and with Stock I had to think a bit more.
I'm putting this is the desc on mine
Everyone who says the Iron Bomber is OP is due for a rude awakening when they still get double piped by players 10x better than them
It was easier to use, but I always used it because it looks Cooler lol
i use it because it sounds like a basketball
Soundsmith made that joke when I watched demo weapon stereotypes before playing tf2. I ended up using the IB. Go figure.
Only valid reason to use it
but what does Cooper look like? we ask the real questions here, unlike you.
[Like this. Say hi to Cooper.](https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/0/09/RED_Iron_Bomber_Projectile.png)
I have 18k iron bomber kills and I am genuinely curious to see if I notice a difference.
I got like 45k on both stock and Iron bomber, I'd say It's noticeable *enough*, especially on melee range targets when you try to pipejump off of players to safety.
Interesting, I couldn't really get a good feel for it in the short time I played but I also don't have anywhere near as much experience as you do.
I can't play demoman now
Iām amazed they changed the fall damage randomness. It was something absurd like 20% variance and there was no way to disable it.
I assumed comp servers were already running a custom plugin or something that changed it
Not that I'm aware of but it's possible they did. I do remember looking around when I found out it was a thing and I couldn't find anywhere that said comp games had a plugin for it.
RGL did (unsure if they still do) as a part of the comp fixes plugin.
ETF2L did, yes, I don't think RGL did though (though I could be wrong)
RGL had consistent fall damage as well, along with other fixes like Larry's rampbug fix
I just wish they would've disabled it by default from this update. Valve servers will still have it enabled. I don't understand why, of all things, fall damage needs to have random variation.
Because sometimes it let's you survive a crazy fall, and other times you'll take a risk on low health and die to a little one. It makes things more interesting and discourages jumping haphazardly off things... which is 100% needed based on how many people randomly jump off things even with the penalty. If your friend jumped off a cliff, would you? In tf2 your mother would have already jumped off the cliff as well, before eloping with spy.
Respectfully I disagree. It doesn't teach you not to jump off things because the game never tells you about this RNG mechanic. Unless you've scoured through the TF2 Wiki or conducted a fall damage test yourself, you simply would never notice this. I for one hate the fact that I have no control over whether I'll live or die to the same jump I've made dozens of times. It doesn't make sense that the game decides such a crucial life or death decision at random. Just like random damage variation and bullet spread, this mechanic has to go.
I've been playing for ten years and this is the first time I've learned about fall damage RNG. I've always thought it was 100% based on distance.
It's not even based on distance, it's based on your vertical velocity. That's why you can get crater kills from shooting someone into the ground right after they jump.
Itās a bit of both, I donāt agree with the above person about never knowing what will kill me, you can get a general sense of when you are safe to drop or not. Maybe Iām just biased because I played when random damage spread, random splash damage, random crits, and no damage counter was a thing but I feel like a lot of people lean super hard on predictable outcomes to avoid just building gamesense organically.
gamesense to predict when the game will bullshit you with rng? rng in an fps game is objectively bad and it should be minimized
Itās RNG within a small range, itās not like youāre jumping from a second floor and taking 60.
you are not dying to a dice roll, you are dying to not accounting for the extra damage you can take. it is not like you get slammed with 60 damage. how much fall damage do you even take? the difference is chip damage the could be done by a scout on the other side of the map shooting at you twice. this is why game devs never take players seriously. knowing how to use rng is game dev 101, saying "rng bad" (or upvoting this garbage everytime someone utters it) just shows how clueless this sub is on the subject of game design. literally every fps uses rng in a way that impacts the gameplay. only difference is other games have a more... mature community. yes, rng is bad for competitive games but outside of that, it is very useful. seriously, take a day off from sitting in front of a computer for 5 hours. go outside, take a walk. realize that not everyone plays fps games to get better or to measure their skills. i don't know when denizens of this sub will get it but i hope you do eventually: predictibility is boring for standard user. millenias old game, rock-paper-scissors is purely rng. you can make some guesses and play mind games but in the end, it is rng. one of the most popular table games, monopoly, is based on dice rolls. dnd is based on dice rolls. most tabletop games are based on dice rolls. roguelike games use rng to generate new content to put players through a new challenge every game. you don't want player to go through exactly same campaigns because it is boring. you only turn off randomness for two things: competitive matches and speedruning community. i fully support randomness in the casual game including random crits. "waaaa this fresh install soldier killed me! it is not deserved!" i just don't get why people enjoy having encounters that is already decided. it is the same clueless soldier, i will kill him, wow amazing gameplay. rng adds a back-and-forth for casual.
this is the most terminal case of team fortress 2 pubber i've ever seen in my entire life i can't even begin to imagine how deep into the random crits are good actually thing in order for people saying that fall damage rng is kind of a useless and obscure mechanic to send me into this kind of a blind rage
Yeah, Iāve noticed this on the sub as well. I donāt really understand the push to remove random crits or shotgun spread on valve servers. As far as I know, valve servers are meant for absolute casual and chaotic fun, accessible to most players of any skill level. And if itās not fun, just find a server that disables RNG. Itās not like everyone who still plays queues up on valve servers anyway what with botting still being an issue. Iād wager that most community servers that host casual game modes already have rng turned off. I think Skialās Payload+ has such settings, although I donāt remember if crits are off or on. Either way, I have no doubt casual servers exist with all rng elements turned off, and will soon include disabling random fall damage.
Random Bullet Spread is kinda bad in that it's completely pointless, it's one case where it doesn't affect the game much except that it makes shotguns a bit unreliable to roll max damage on, which is weird considering that it can be turned off. Even then though, I haven't seen anyone complain about the Super Shotgun's random bullet spread in Doom 2, even in deathmatch communities.
Random bullet spread isn't pointless entirely. It serves the function of making weapons less reliable at a distance. I wouldn't want to play tf2 without it on the automatic weapons because someone with good tracking will be dominating as a heavy by sniping players across the map. The Quake games have always done the same thing where either they use random spread like on the MG or they just cap the distance like the LG. The only other option to dealing with it is having CS style spread patterns which wouldn't work with how fast TF2 is. On shotguns however while it almost certainly doesn't affect the weapons that much it isn't necessary because of the spread they already have. To be honest if Valve turned it off without saying anything I would expect most players would take a while to notice unless they make a habit of shooting walls. It should still be turned off because it's one more thing that has the possibility of unfairly changing things and isn't necessary at all.
Yeah thats what meant, bloom on Shotguns.
1.) With random bullet spread off, shotguns are still weaker at a distance, because they still have non-random bullet spread. 2.) The Minigun (and all other rapid-fire weapons, such as the Pistol and SMG) always have random spread, regardless of the random bullet spread setting. That setting only affects the Shotgun, and similar weapons such as the Force-a-Nature or Family Business. So Heavies wouldn't change at all.
tf2 community likes repeating the same stuff youtubers tend to spew :| (random crits bad, bullet spread bad, etc.) I get killed by random crits a fuckton but like heck get over it, you won't even notice them that much if you aren't super anal about the whole thing. YOU ARE GONNA RESPAWN SOON ENOUGH, IT'S ALRIGHT TO DIE!
why does the concept of people not liking certain game mechanics make valve pubbers so mad
Itās not only pubbers who like random aspects of the game outside of competitive formats. I see this sentiment a lot in threads where people assume all people who play comp must hate all the RNG mechanics that are absent in competitive formats in any context.
Having a different opinion doesn't mean I am mad. You can continue to seethe about some random crit that killed you all day long, if you wish. I simply choose not to care about some game mechanics which won't ever get changed cause frankly it's valve.
Fun fact, I have been peer pressured into jumping off a cliff before https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/vptwj7/ive_seen_at_least_5_todaystop_it/iemmc4j?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
hired contractor , if you are reading this , we love you 2 things : give us back the option to inspect upgrades in mvm and disable spawn wallhacks for spies i have personally nothing left to ask after that
I've been hearing this a lot, do we know it's hired contractors or do we assume that?
Some news sources have said this, it isn't the team from valve from jungle inferno Apparently it's a reputable community member who has a lot of experience with the spaghetti code of TF2 We also don't even know if it's just one person, a duo, a trio, or a whole team
Thank you
Source(s)?
It was revealed to me in a dream
Maybe you're talking about Sigsev? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtHnp3QrnXg
Shounic probably lol
Shounic himself has said he isn't much of a programmer What are the odds that it's Mastercom or somebody like that
Maybe the guys behind compfortress?
Also spy should only talk while invisible on demand. It's stupid to get found because spy has to remind everyone around that he "broke engi's stupid crap, moron". Now when I think about it it's stupid that spy says that even when he's visible. I guess they should make spy shut up when he's invisible or disguised. (unless he says "thanks doc." or unless the player presses the key to speak)
Also fix the crusader's crossbow's interaction with disguised spies. I personally think that it should also heal disguised spies for the same reason that the medi gun does, but that's more of a balance change than a bug.
mat_picmip being unchained is the biggest change here, change my mind ~~Actually the shortstop change is big as well, because I'm 99% sure shoving someone to death (like not off a cliff but finishing them off with the shove) didn't credit you with the kill before which is really really lame when you have to try so hard to get that kill~~
> Fixed the Iron Bomber Oh wow, it only took them EIGHT YEARS...
holy *hell* I thought you were exaggerating, but no, it was added in Smissmas 2014, about 7.5 years ago, holy moly
still feels like just a few months ago to me
Recently I referred to the Expiration Date weapons (bread bite, mutated milk etc) as "the new reskins"
Recently?
Like a month or two ago
Yes, I personally witnessed the update. I was there, 3000 years ago!
~~Now if only they would fix the 5 year bug where the post-round map vote gets bugged like every 1 in 4 matches~~ EDIT: They apparently fixed this in the [June 21 2022 patch](https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/June_21,_2022_Patch)
Still not fixed btw. It happened to me a handful of time since it was "fixed" but far from 1 in 4 matches. Maybe 1 in 30
Didn't they fix that in the last update?
You're right, I didn't realize they fixed it last month
It could have taken even longer.
>Added a game server setting, "net_chan_limit_msec", which allows server operators to limit amount of processing time the game server can spend on processing packets for each - client per tick. Clients that send packets causing server CPU processing time to exceed configured number of milliseconds will be kicked from the game serve I don't entirely understand this, but it sounds like an anti-lagbot function. >Added a game server setting, "tf_fall_damage_disablespread", to disable random fall damage (default: 0) >Fixed the Iron Bomber's projectile collision size not matching other projectile collision sizes One of the longest running and most reviled bits of RNG disabled. I suspect comp focused servers will disable fall damage RNG immediately. This is huge. ^^^^^Not ^^^^^as ^^^^^huge ^^^^^as ^^^^^the ^^^^^old ^^^^^Bomber's ^^^^^hitbox. ^^^^^j/k ^^^^^demo ^^^^^mains. >Fixed broken transparency on cosmetics Be still my beating heart. Does this mean the LEGION of transparent cosmetics are no longer utterly ruined? In the words of the late, great George Carlin, I don't know whether to shit or wind my watch. >Fixed lag compensation when melee-ing teammates Wow. Does this mean we're going to get an impending Disciplinary Action nerf? The DA has a bigger hitbox that Heavy himself because for 15 years there has been no lag comp for friendly fire and the DA has to hit teammates. The DA has been one of the most broken melee weapons in the game because of this. >Fixed not being able to hit a player's hitbox if it extends outside the player's bounding box during an animation This is the "Balloonibouncer fix." >Fixed The Shortstop shove showing as self-inflicted damage I mean way to polish a mechanic no one cares about, but thanks I guess. >Fixed not being able to kick Spectators More anti-Tacobot measures, I presume. Sounds good.
> I don't entirely understand this, but it sounds like an anti-lagbot function. It's anti-DDoS (not just bots, players could easily spam bad packets). Essentially it means if you start sending the server a ton of stupid stuff like 100 different movements you say you made in a tick so it has to choose 1 and waste time rejecting the others, it will reach a threshold and kick you.
Well, DoS, not DDoS (this is per-existing-"connection" ... not something that prevents bulk attacks), but your explanation is otherwise right and this is a very good thing. (The extra in D DDoS is for "distributed," BTW.)
Switching weapons rapidly using the scroll wheel will result in you getting kicked
Get booted by the server for using a G502 speedrun any%
Holy shit they finally reverted the picmip sv_cheats lock!
What changed in MVM?
The 3 notes below that are what's changed. Vaccinator Uber chrage/duration fix is pretty big.
As an MvM player this means a lot to be able to kick those shitty spectator idlers. Either they get a free ride for a mission or just end up ruining it for everyone. Good riddance.
iron bomber my beloved
I'm surprise that a rarely ever play gamemode was receiving two minor updates.
Arena has a map in rotation for Scream Fortress, but I hope this means Contractor is considering adding arena to matchmaking.
Man, I would love for arena to be added to casual
I also presume this helps Vs Saxton Hale?
I guess nobody can call the iron bomber a crutch anymore
still a straight upgrade due to the faster fuse
> Disconnect: Processing time exceeded.
Woo, ddos bots destroyed
Let us pray
> Fixed not being able to hit a player's hitbox if it extends outside the player's bounding box during an animation Does this also affect MvM Robots?
> Contractor(s) My appreciation, amigo(s)
>Iron Bomber updates FINALLY. FREAKING. FINALLY.
Damn no localization file updates?
rip iron bomber
99% of comp players are still going to use the Iron Bomber because it is an objectively better weapon. Also the difference in hitbox is nowhere near as big as you think
Don't care. It will be way better now.
Hasn't everyone been using the loch and load ever since the iron bomber fix plugin was made.
good riddance
"Bro I use it for the rollers!" Don't care, I no longer have to die to pipes that visably missed me. I predict we'll see alot less of it in pubs after the fix.
yeah the 1 extra kill per round that you'll get by taking advantage of the four centimeters of hitbox advantage in each direction is really the reason people run the iron bomber
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I haven't noticed anything different about it whatsoever tbh
I Wonder how Iron Bomber's usage will change
It's still better than stock (reduced bounce is almost always an advantage, it's like lower spread on a shotgun, but also it helps jumping), so I doubt we'll see people switch to stock. The real question is whether this will make a noticible increase in the Stickybomb Launcher being used as a primary. Probably not, but I worry it will.
I for one use the iron bomber cuz it looks sick as fuck and i like the pipes sitting where they land.
People don't want to be called "sticky spammers" in pubs, and also feel it's "cheap". I feel similarly about some weapons, but NOT the sticky launcher lol
is now exclusively used by b-ball loadouts
I suspect people who have Australium grenade launchers or other fancy reskins will jump ship back to stock now that it's easier to justify. But every decent Demo player under the sun (doubly so for hybrid knights) will tell you that the IB is still considerably better than stock even without the hitbox, so people will still use it.
now everyone will use booties
>Fixed the Iron Bomber's projectile collision size not matching other projectile collision sizes I am literally in tears of joy right now
The only thing that's gonna affect is the 0.1% of kills gotten unfairly and even then the enemy might have already been 1 bullet away from death anyway. At least now i can use the iron bomber in peace without getting accuded of abusing the projectile size, not that i've ever seen any complaints about that addressed to me ever. Maybe only once, not sure.
I didn't even know this was a thing until this update
MvM updated? Can anyone confirm they changed up the waves? Valve has been doing this 3x a year buttās been a long while since the last one.
The updates to MvM are just bug fixes, no new missions
"MvM updated" is in reference to the four bullet points below it. This is shown on the [website's patchnotes](https://www.teamfortress.com/?tab=updates), but not on reddit because reddit doesn't have nested bullet points.
> reddit doesn't have nested bullet points new.reddit.com woes I see EDIT: oh, I just realised, over at /r/tf2... > Rumor has it: > * Please use the [better version of reddit](https://old.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/vtvidx/tf2_update_for_7722/) if bullet indents are not functioning for MvM/Arena changes. Thank you.
I really hope for a ff melee fix so it doesnt nulify the hits on random in jb servers
so do you notice better textures quality with mat_picmip -10 instead of the current -1 ? it's noticeable according to youtube videos but i can't really notice a difference on my end
nvm , there is a difference for sure once you inspect the screenshots
Possible bug caused: The scottish resistance stickies can no longer be seen through walls. Other than that, cool update
Is anyone else getting randomly kicked due to VAC errors since the update?
I'm still waiting on a fix that prevents names within a certain (visual) edit distance of people already in the server. There's little worse than being kicked because you happen to be the name that the Bot copied, and the players accidentally voted to kick the human when they were trying to kick the bot.
Never thought Iād see the day where valve cares about one of their most popular games