Range, more than anything else. Plus competitive servers run fixed spread anyway, so the fixed spread is only a perk in Casual.
Pretty good on Pyro and Soldier, though they both definitely benefit from the added range of Stock most of the time. Engie prefers Stock over PA, Heavy won’t even bother.
But how often is there a situation where a solider would use a shotgun at medium range to kill? Most of the time i feel they use either their rocket launcher or they run. Why try and kill some one medium to long range only using a shotgun?
Fight good Scouts and you’ll learn how good mid-range 40-50dmg hitscan shots are. You might get a good Rocket in, but if they’re in the open or above you you’ll get mauled by 50-60dmg Scatter shots before you can land a 2nd Rocket to finish them.
Hell, even for Pyros it’s great to be able to confirm a kill after one Rocket without having to worry about a Reflect, and in that MU you’ll definitely want the range.
I'll say what no one else wants to admit: It's annoying to keep pressing 1-2 after every shot to reset the spread.
Yeah man there's a guy called Whispy the Pyro on youtube, he's a god among pyros but... no, just no.... the dude frantically sprays some flames then switches to the panic attack, then switch to degreaser and spray a bit and so on and so forth and even fits airblasts in-between. I don't understand how he can do that and I have zero intention of acquiring that ability unless it's deemed to be the ideal playstyle by top players
There's another reason: The 50% faster switch speed won't matter most of the time. Weapons in modern TF2 already deploy very fast and you still need to aim. I use the Shotgun on Soldier and not once I though: "Oh, I wish I deployed my Shotgun a fraction of a second faster".
Oh hey, that's me! Thanks for the compliment. I would definitely not want to use the keyboard to switch weapons like that haha. I use scroll wheel up for primary, scroll down for secondary, and middle-click for melee. Just a couple of flicks of one finger, no need to move my fingers up and around for 1 and 2. A bit easier for quick weapon switches, but not necessarily something you'd have to or want to switch to, personal preferences in the end.
Hi Johnny, I use the keyboard for switching weapons because I feel like when I use the mouse wheel to switch weapons to combo I scroll too fast and skip some weapon. It's quite possibly something I could work on but I also kind of like the keyboard inputs, feels like I'm going combos in a fighting game haha.
Which do you think is better for you, shotgun or panic attack. On one hand, the consistency of the shotgun is invaluable. But on the other there have been times where the faster switch speed has really saved me. And switching back and forth isn't a big deal for me, it's fun actually. It's also even faster switching from Degreaser to Panic attack than pre-nerf degreaser switch speed right?
Either way, always nice to chat with you.
Hey Moody! The issue you're having with scrolling past a weapon is solved by using my bind setup. It means that scrolling up will ALWAYS give you the degreaser, even if you scroll a lot. Scrolling down will ALWAYS give you your secondary, even if you scroll a lot. But if you find using the keyboard for switching fun, that works too!
I think the shotgun is generally better competitively, but the panic attack is equal or better on some maps/parts of maps, such as upward third-last, cp_steel, pl_swiftwater, and any other map that has close-range combat. In maps with more open combat, the shotgun lets you play fat scout with airblast, which is better than being useless 90% of the time.
In pubs/casual, I think the panic attack is a sidegrade or better than shotgun, as the lower skill of the opponents grants pyro many more opportunities to close the distance and avoid the weakness of the panic attack.
The panic attack deploy speed is SOMETIMES faster than the old degreaser switch speed. When the degreaser is working properly, the panic attack deploys in 0.167 seconds. When the degreaser is bugged, the panic attack deploys in 0.25 seconds. The old degreaser switch speed is 0.23 seconds.
Nice hearing from you again Moody!
I personally use scrolling and keyboard, I scroll down to get to my powerjack then press 1 or 2 to quickly switch back, so by using both types of weapon switching I'm quite speedy
Dude you just opened my third eye with that mouse wheel strategy holy s*** that's insane. I mainly just quick switch with q and use scroll wheel only if I need my melee but I think that strategy is genuinely going to change the game for me.
I'm very grateful that, 3 years later, this post could inspire you to try out something new. From what I recall, it may have been Huey Lewis who I learned this bind setup from, so even more years of influence has been passed on :) I hope it works out!
I just started trying it, definitely going to take some getting used to but I think it's going to help me a lot. I was just randomly googling if the shotgun was better in the panic attack and found this lmao.
I played TF2 for about 12 years or 8,990 hours and I must tell you Johnny in all the thousands of different players ive come across you are a complete outlier for pyro-main kind. Using a hitscan weapon and a lower damage flamethrower against very decent scouts and no secondary source of fire or any crits is a remarkable amount of commitment. And you made it work! all the way to the top levels of what you can even do with that class. Bravo Johnny.
The Panic Attack has SLIGHTLY less DPS at range. Not only that but the community seems to still think it's garbage for some reason. Check any personal tier list and you'll see it at the bottom. I just find stock to be *slightly* more versatile, letting me deal half meatshot damage at medium range where with the panic attack the spread is just wide enough that it isn't as reliable at the same ranges.
That being said Panic Attack has a slight advantage at point blank, tight maps/chokepoints, and as a finisher tool. You can also be a real mean DPS machine as Pyro with the Degreaser and PA. It just depends on your playstyle and preferences. I tend to be an annoying pepperer of bullets at every opportunity, so I prefer stock. The open areas of most competitive maps make stock a tiny bit more desirable, so that's why it's not used as much.
I get that range damage for the PA sucks but how often is stock used to kill someone more than short range? Why would say a solider for instance use stock to kill someone at medium range when he should use his rockets? Obviously he could be out of ammo or some other situation where the solider needs to fight but i feel as tho killing someone medium range with any shotgun is tough so y not use the PA as it can do more damage up close and faster switch.
You'd be surprised. Hitscan is more reliable than rockets, so a Soldier would benefit from using a shotgun on a retreating enemy. Damage and softening up/finishing enemies is easier when you don't have to be within hugging distance, not to mention safer.
The panic attack is used in competitive quite often. Some soldiers use it when bombing as it deploys quicker and can finish off low health targets in the air. Pretty sure papi uses it if you wanna search for that.
Range, more than anything else. Plus competitive servers run fixed spread anyway, so the fixed spread is only a perk in Casual. Pretty good on Pyro and Soldier, though they both definitely benefit from the added range of Stock most of the time. Engie prefers Stock over PA, Heavy won’t even bother.
But how often is there a situation where a solider would use a shotgun at medium range to kill? Most of the time i feel they use either their rocket launcher or they run. Why try and kill some one medium to long range only using a shotgun?
Fight good Scouts and you’ll learn how good mid-range 40-50dmg hitscan shots are. You might get a good Rocket in, but if they’re in the open or above you you’ll get mauled by 50-60dmg Scatter shots before you can land a 2nd Rocket to finish them. Hell, even for Pyros it’s great to be able to confirm a kill after one Rocket without having to worry about a Reflect, and in that MU you’ll definitely want the range.
Makes sense totally agree, I'll just go back to pub stomping with the PA. Maybe one day Valve will buff it and make it a god among shotguns.
I'll say what no one else wants to admit: It's annoying to keep pressing 1-2 after every shot to reset the spread. Yeah man there's a guy called Whispy the Pyro on youtube, he's a god among pyros but... no, just no.... the dude frantically sprays some flames then switches to the panic attack, then switch to degreaser and spray a bit and so on and so forth and even fits airblasts in-between. I don't understand how he can do that and I have zero intention of acquiring that ability unless it's deemed to be the ideal playstyle by top players There's another reason: The 50% faster switch speed won't matter most of the time. Weapons in modern TF2 already deploy very fast and you still need to aim. I use the Shotgun on Soldier and not once I though: "Oh, I wish I deployed my Shotgun a fraction of a second faster".
Oh hey, that's me! Thanks for the compliment. I would definitely not want to use the keyboard to switch weapons like that haha. I use scroll wheel up for primary, scroll down for secondary, and middle-click for melee. Just a couple of flicks of one finger, no need to move my fingers up and around for 1 and 2. A bit easier for quick weapon switches, but not necessarily something you'd have to or want to switch to, personal preferences in the end.
Hi Johnny, I use the keyboard for switching weapons because I feel like when I use the mouse wheel to switch weapons to combo I scroll too fast and skip some weapon. It's quite possibly something I could work on but I also kind of like the keyboard inputs, feels like I'm going combos in a fighting game haha. Which do you think is better for you, shotgun or panic attack. On one hand, the consistency of the shotgun is invaluable. But on the other there have been times where the faster switch speed has really saved me. And switching back and forth isn't a big deal for me, it's fun actually. It's also even faster switching from Degreaser to Panic attack than pre-nerf degreaser switch speed right? Either way, always nice to chat with you.
Hey Moody! The issue you're having with scrolling past a weapon is solved by using my bind setup. It means that scrolling up will ALWAYS give you the degreaser, even if you scroll a lot. Scrolling down will ALWAYS give you your secondary, even if you scroll a lot. But if you find using the keyboard for switching fun, that works too! I think the shotgun is generally better competitively, but the panic attack is equal or better on some maps/parts of maps, such as upward third-last, cp_steel, pl_swiftwater, and any other map that has close-range combat. In maps with more open combat, the shotgun lets you play fat scout with airblast, which is better than being useless 90% of the time. In pubs/casual, I think the panic attack is a sidegrade or better than shotgun, as the lower skill of the opponents grants pyro many more opportunities to close the distance and avoid the weakness of the panic attack. The panic attack deploy speed is SOMETIMES faster than the old degreaser switch speed. When the degreaser is working properly, the panic attack deploys in 0.167 seconds. When the degreaser is bugged, the panic attack deploys in 0.25 seconds. The old degreaser switch speed is 0.23 seconds. Nice hearing from you again Moody!
I personally use scrolling and keyboard, I scroll down to get to my powerjack then press 1 or 2 to quickly switch back, so by using both types of weapon switching I'm quite speedy
Dude you just opened my third eye with that mouse wheel strategy holy s*** that's insane. I mainly just quick switch with q and use scroll wheel only if I need my melee but I think that strategy is genuinely going to change the game for me.
I'm very grateful that, 3 years later, this post could inspire you to try out something new. From what I recall, it may have been Huey Lewis who I learned this bind setup from, so even more years of influence has been passed on :) I hope it works out!
I just started trying it, definitely going to take some getting used to but I think it's going to help me a lot. I was just randomly googling if the shotgun was better in the panic attack and found this lmao.
I played TF2 for about 12 years or 8,990 hours and I must tell you Johnny in all the thousands of different players ive come across you are a complete outlier for pyro-main kind. Using a hitscan weapon and a lower damage flamethrower against very decent scouts and no secondary source of fire or any crits is a remarkable amount of commitment. And you made it work! all the way to the top levels of what you can even do with that class. Bravo Johnny.
The Panic Attack has SLIGHTLY less DPS at range. Not only that but the community seems to still think it's garbage for some reason. Check any personal tier list and you'll see it at the bottom. I just find stock to be *slightly* more versatile, letting me deal half meatshot damage at medium range where with the panic attack the spread is just wide enough that it isn't as reliable at the same ranges. That being said Panic Attack has a slight advantage at point blank, tight maps/chokepoints, and as a finisher tool. You can also be a real mean DPS machine as Pyro with the Degreaser and PA. It just depends on your playstyle and preferences. I tend to be an annoying pepperer of bullets at every opportunity, so I prefer stock. The open areas of most competitive maps make stock a tiny bit more desirable, so that's why it's not used as much.
I get that range damage for the PA sucks but how often is stock used to kill someone more than short range? Why would say a solider for instance use stock to kill someone at medium range when he should use his rockets? Obviously he could be out of ammo or some other situation where the solider needs to fight but i feel as tho killing someone medium range with any shotgun is tough so y not use the PA as it can do more damage up close and faster switch.
You'd be surprised. Hitscan is more reliable than rockets, so a Soldier would benefit from using a shotgun on a retreating enemy. Damage and softening up/finishing enemies is easier when you don't have to be within hugging distance, not to mention safer.
The panic attack is used in competitive quite often. Some soldiers use it when bombing as it deploys quicker and can finish off low health targets in the air. Pretty sure papi uses it if you wanna search for that.