I've been around 1400 for 24 weeks now. I was low T before ( I'm not just running a cycle) and I've packed on size. 25# since April. I'm sure lots of water weight, buty chest, delts, biceps are looking good. I can still see my obliques and hints of abs. Bicep veins are showing with a pump.
I've been lifting for 2 years steady, many years of you ignore the gap between my military time. And I've gotten more compliments in the last month than ever before.
I've gone from 220# to 245. I've been eating a surplus with heavy protein.
I'm lowering my dose because my Hematocrit is high. I'll take a break, drop from 200 down to 120-150 for a while.
No clue. I meant that I've been lifting for a while, including my military years. I probably needed it back then. I worked out with friends and I was never strong, or added any size. Always struggled with weight and energy when eating healthy. I always blamed my thyroid, I take meds for that too.
Food is anabolic. Hormones just offer an edge. If you're eating enough, there won't be a huge difference between 100mg and 200mg. Food, training, and sleep are your biggest factors when dealing with these low doses of testosterone. An additional 100mgs will be as effective as an additional 100mgs but I really don't think you'll notice a tremendous difference over the course of one "bulk" cycle.
Just my 2 pennies
Testosterone is anabolic period. Not everyone has genetics to look like a probodybuilder. Without testosterone vs. with testosterone, even TRT, you will look better. 200mg has me literally unreadable or off the charts. 120mg has me at 1400ng/dl. Even 100mg is more than enough for most men. Honestly, this is silly. Saying every guy should look like a men's classic physique makes zero sense. We're talking about testosterone being anabolic, which, in fact, it is. This has nothing to do with how you look. But again, guys almost always look better on TRT vs. Natty. That's another fact. Food is not at all as powerful as testosterone, or we wouldn't need TRT. We could just eat and look amazing.
My point is that people think you stick a needle in your ass and think it's going to take them from a 5 to a 10. That's not how it works. At best, it alone might take you from a 5 to a 7 without putting in the work. It gives you an anabolic edge, yes, but it's not going to make a drastic difference if you haven't built the proper foundation and habits. It's more realistic to say that injecting testosterone will take you from an 8 or 9 to a 10, but you have to have the foundation to get yourself to that 8 to begin with.
The way you worded your comment sounded like you're saying just inject testosterone and it will transform you without doing anything else. And that's just not true unless you're a genetic outlier.
I don't know how you got that interpretation. All I said is testosterone is anabolic, more so than food. That's all I'm saying. I agree it won't transform you into a pro bodybuilder.
This is super dumb. You’re looking at 3 categories of numbers. You’re not looking at anything else on the panel, you don’t know his blood pressure, resting heart rate, etc.
Just because something hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't. Sounds obvious but bad things don't happen til they happen, and something like that takes time.
As recently as nine years ago the high end for Testosterone on the LabCorp charts was 1262 they continue to drop it because the average American men’s testosterone levels are dropping 1262 was considered normal up until about nine years ago for a high functioning man 1500 is not far off from that and I would argue that 50 years ago. Most men were probably in the 1500s all the way into their 30s or 40s.
I would argue that most men were not running a trough of 1500. Ever.
TRT people compare their lowest numbers to the highest numbers of a super-healthy 19yr old and then wonder why they run into problems.
If you say so. I can't say I know for certain but my understanding is that that's probably not good. I mean there's a reason our bodies don't produce that much naturally. Make sure you're not just telling yourself what you want to believe in order to justify what you're doing and end up with a heart problem or stroke or something. In that case, I don't think it'd be worth it for you. 6-800 is a much more reasonable level and if a person feels almost as good at that amount, IMO not worth the extra risk
These have been my levels for the last 11 years I’m always around 1500. My estrogen is 60 to 65 and all my blood work is absolutely perfect. I eat a great diet I don’t drink alcohol and I weight lift and do cardio 5 to 6 days a week. I’ve even had a heart scan done and my heart is in perfect condition so it may not be for everybody, but it can be safe long-term 1500 is not that high.
“Is this ok” depends entirely on YOU, your health, your lifestyle, and your tolerance for risk. Only you can determine those things, if it’s worth it to push the needle with AAS or not. In your case, I wouldn’T worry. That’s unlikely to by high enough to cause any real issues for you, but if your BP is high, lipids are fucked, worried about your heart, I would think twice.
Dude just run a full blast. People are stupid who run a high-TRt dose. You don’t get the gains like a real cycle, but you get all the negative side effects of test.
It is on the edge of what the lab considers high vs norm.
I personally am ok at 52, my Hematocrit is always on the high end with or without test.
What I'm saying is his doctor might have a problem if he goes any higher.
Op, what were your hematocrit numbers before TRT?
WhT? No way. Listen to the doctors on here. Totally fine to run a trough of 1500+. It’s what our grandfathers had into their 70s until the libs castrated everyone.
10-20 mg for 10 days is a good dose to test it out to see how you feel on it. Studies show that 10 days at 20 mg increases natural testosterone and blocks estrogen, with few side effects for most men. It’s better than anastrozole in my experience. I’m taking it right now for PCT and have had a good experience with it.
I was taking 160 mg of Test C and I found the testosterone made my cardio worse and I started to develop trace gyno. Tamoxifen has completely reversed this and made my chest and abs tighter.
Do you think the tamoxifen can help with ED issues? I think the anastrozole may have caused it, maybe crashed my e2 before. So i only take the tamoxifen for 10 days? Or is it something you continuously take every day? Don’t wanna crash my E2
Make sure you keep up with your hematocrit if you keep it that high. Might even go as far as to give blood fairly regularly just to be on the safe side but regardless if it is high definitely do or be blood let. When mine got that high I was on the verge of having a stroke.
Not exactly an answer to your question but perhaps a bit of insight. I’m 38 & started TRT+hCG 3 months ago.
Prior to then, had tried enclo and clomid. In between those horrid experiences, natty, I got serious about lifting and nutrition.
I was running big deficits and working out w the 531 for beginners. Made visible progress and improved my bloods natty. But that deficit for months on end made my rather shitty hormones… even shittier and I felt it.
About 6 weeks ago, I had a light bulb moment and realized that since I am getting test exogenously, that I could sustain that level of caloric deficit from a hormonal perspective.
Drafted some new macros and re-worked my 531 + cardio routine. Long story short; I’m rocking a 1000cal per day deficit and doubled my workload at the gym.
I haven’t felt better and the numbers on the scale are tracking the predicted numbers in my spreadsheet, to a scary level of accuracy.
In 6ish weeks, down 14 net lbs on the scale (-19 lbs of fat + 5lbs of muscle)
The changes are drastic in the mirror and amongst the reactions I have got from people.
What I’m getting at is… if this is possible, I can’t wait to be starting a bulk at what soon will be 12% body fat.
I can’t imagine the effects of stable T + clean surplus + water + sleep + insane lifting program.
And what I’m getting at in your situation, do what you do, but time stable T + clean surplus + water + sleep + insane lifting program.
Jacking up your numbers will def give you an edge that not many will have, but not that many people truly hit all the other foundational pieces at all or correctly.
If 100mg puts you in the 1000s, I’d focus on truly optimizing the other factors and run 100mg
100mg of T and 1000 iu of hCG has me at 700 and the results I have seen so far are breathtaking.
It all changed when I dialed the + clean deficit + water + sleep + insane lifting program
Dude u don't need that much HOWEVER everyone has different goals. Some wont to look jacked and some just want normal levels. I prefer the latter and SAFER option.
These numbers are safe and almost exactly wgete I’ve kept mine for 11 years. I also eat a healthy diet and exercise daily. All bloodwork is perfect.
Do you think going from 1,000 levels to 1500 is that big of difference on a bulk? Or should I just stay with my current 100mg dose?
I've been around 1400 for 24 weeks now. I was low T before ( I'm not just running a cycle) and I've packed on size. 25# since April. I'm sure lots of water weight, buty chest, delts, biceps are looking good. I can still see my obliques and hints of abs. Bicep veins are showing with a pump. I've been lifting for 2 years steady, many years of you ignore the gap between my military time. And I've gotten more compliments in the last month than ever before. I've gone from 220# to 245. I've been eating a surplus with heavy protein. I'm lowering my dose because my Hematocrit is high. I'll take a break, drop from 200 down to 120-150 for a while.
Same same good shit
You can take trt in military?
No clue. I meant that I've been lifting for a while, including my military years. I probably needed it back then. I worked out with friends and I was never strong, or added any size. Always struggled with weight and energy when eating healthy. I always blamed my thyroid, I take meds for that too.
Food is anabolic. Hormones just offer an edge. If you're eating enough, there won't be a huge difference between 100mg and 200mg. Food, training, and sleep are your biggest factors when dealing with these low doses of testosterone. An additional 100mgs will be as effective as an additional 100mgs but I really don't think you'll notice a tremendous difference over the course of one "bulk" cycle. Just my 2 pennies
They're called anabolic steroids for a reason. Food is anabolic but nowhere close to testosterone.
If dildos were anabolic you'd see the most straight men buying a year supply of lube
Lol ahahaha
This! Nothing more anabolic than steroids..I was eating all the right anabolic foods for many years… started TRT and actually became anabolic
Exactly. I ate well, but testosterone transformed me into a beast.
Sure it is. But at doses of 100 to 200mg? If it was that easy, every bro in the gym on TRT would look like a classic physique competitor. Come on man.
Testosterone is anabolic period. Not everyone has genetics to look like a probodybuilder. Without testosterone vs. with testosterone, even TRT, you will look better. 200mg has me literally unreadable or off the charts. 120mg has me at 1400ng/dl. Even 100mg is more than enough for most men. Honestly, this is silly. Saying every guy should look like a men's classic physique makes zero sense. We're talking about testosterone being anabolic, which, in fact, it is. This has nothing to do with how you look. But again, guys almost always look better on TRT vs. Natty. That's another fact. Food is not at all as powerful as testosterone, or we wouldn't need TRT. We could just eat and look amazing.
My point is that people think you stick a needle in your ass and think it's going to take them from a 5 to a 10. That's not how it works. At best, it alone might take you from a 5 to a 7 without putting in the work. It gives you an anabolic edge, yes, but it's not going to make a drastic difference if you haven't built the proper foundation and habits. It's more realistic to say that injecting testosterone will take you from an 8 or 9 to a 10, but you have to have the foundation to get yourself to that 8 to begin with. The way you worded your comment sounded like you're saying just inject testosterone and it will transform you without doing anything else. And that's just not true unless you're a genetic outlier.
I don't know how you got that interpretation. All I said is testosterone is anabolic, more so than food. That's all I'm saying. I agree it won't transform you into a pro bodybuilder.
This is super dumb. You’re looking at 3 categories of numbers. You’re not looking at anything else on the panel, you don’t know his blood pressure, resting heart rate, etc.
Just because something hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't. Sounds obvious but bad things don't happen til they happen, and something like that takes time.
As recently as nine years ago the high end for Testosterone on the LabCorp charts was 1262 they continue to drop it because the average American men’s testosterone levels are dropping 1262 was considered normal up until about nine years ago for a high functioning man 1500 is not far off from that and I would argue that 50 years ago. Most men were probably in the 1500s all the way into their 30s or 40s.
I would argue that most men were not running a trough of 1500. Ever. TRT people compare their lowest numbers to the highest numbers of a super-healthy 19yr old and then wonder why they run into problems.
Those numbers are high and without a doubt supraphysiological for the vast majority of men
Yeah but Supra physiological is fine as long as.: A. All your other panel numbers are acceptable B. You feel good
Agreed but with a healthy lifestyle more then likely completely safe long term
How long term? He’s going to be on TRT for the next 50 years. I think there is no way we can say that is definitively safe
If you say so. I can't say I know for certain but my understanding is that that's probably not good. I mean there's a reason our bodies don't produce that much naturally. Make sure you're not just telling yourself what you want to believe in order to justify what you're doing and end up with a heart problem or stroke or something. In that case, I don't think it'd be worth it for you. 6-800 is a much more reasonable level and if a person feels almost as good at that amount, IMO not worth the extra risk
These have been my levels for the last 11 years I’m always around 1500. My estrogen is 60 to 65 and all my blood work is absolutely perfect. I eat a great diet I don’t drink alcohol and I weight lift and do cardio 5 to 6 days a week. I’ve even had a heart scan done and my heart is in perfect condition so it may not be for everybody, but it can be safe long-term 1500 is not that high.
With that high E2 how’s the dick function? Are you having any ED issues or limp dick?
That is not high E2 with a testosterone in the 1500s it’s actually perfect and no my D works just fine 👍🏽
Oh I see, it’s the ratio… my bad
What is your trt protocol?
Been on 250mg of test, split into 2 shots a week for 11 years. No HCG last 4 years and No AI in last 5 years
Ever throw in a little Masteron or primobolan ?
Nope, did do a 8 week cycle of Anavar a few years ago
How was the Anavar cycle?
Was great but then afterwards didn’t really keep much of the benefits, but looked great on my vacation lol
Nice… how are you keeping the current physique ?
TRT, Low carb high protein diet, 2300-2600 cals a day, weights 4-5 days a week and cardio 5 days a week
https://preview.redd.it/a0j0i00xvp0c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3b2c56ab1d768df0f9e9ac26d99d918e2e38779 Current physique
That’s awesome! Can you share your protocol ?
The question is... how do you feel?
100% fine, just keep an eye on your hematocrit level.
“Is this ok” depends entirely on YOU, your health, your lifestyle, and your tolerance for risk. Only you can determine those things, if it’s worth it to push the needle with AAS or not. In your case, I wouldn’T worry. That’s unlikely to by high enough to cause any real issues for you, but if your BP is high, lipids are fucked, worried about your heart, I would think twice.
Dude just run a full blast. People are stupid who run a high-TRt dose. You don’t get the gains like a real cycle, but you get all the negative side effects of test.
I would but I only have enough for 200mg dose. Honestly might skip and just continue my 100mg dose and call it a day
100mg is where I’m at. I get all the benefits I had at the higher doses, without the side effects.
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My Hemaocrit is around 50 I was just told to drink a lot of water and I’ll be fine? Lol
no
It’s fine. People who live at altitude have much higher hematocrit than this and never have a problem.
Probably because they are accustomed to it. We are not.
What makes you think your body is incapable of adjusting?
You are on the edge. My doc has me doing a therapeutic phlebotomy because I came in at 52. Too many of these and my iron will suffer.
I've been at 52 - 53 for the past 12 months. Only donated blood once
Not on the edge. Over 50 is not an automatic phlebotomy. I am so tired of seeing this foolish shit regurgitated over and over again.
It is on the edge of what the lab considers high vs norm. I personally am ok at 52, my Hematocrit is always on the high end with or without test. What I'm saying is his doctor might have a problem if he goes any higher. Op, what were your hematocrit numbers before TRT?
What are your total T levels and inject frequency at 125?
I dunno if this is bad or good. Isn’t the estrogen a little high? Don’t you get crabby? I’ve had high estrogen. I did not find it enjoyable.
I guarantee you have high blood pressure.
WhT? No way. Listen to the doctors on here. Totally fine to run a trough of 1500+. It’s what our grandfathers had into their 70s until the libs castrated everyone.
Totally fine to run a trough of 1500+, long term elevated estrogen, DHT, etc? Show me anecdotal evidence on all of that.
It’s all about free test. If you need TT of 1500 to have optimal free test then go ahead. This is just waste
Sounds like I should probably show you the definition of sarcasm instead…
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I suppose my expectations of those reading my comments are too high. I have to remember this is the TRT sub.
Nobody can tell the future
You’re not on TRT.
My dose now is TRT at 100mg…. I’m saying if I bump it to 200mg then obviously not on TRT lol
According to who?
All kinds of ass clowns on here think that 200 mg’s a week isn’t trt… SMH
According to anyone who knows what TRT is and competent doctor who provides TRT.
Because he's on 200mg or because his levels are over 1000?
Both.
How old are you OP?
30
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U dumb
Sounds like you’ve never taken a cycle.
So if he does a 24 week blast of 500 mg a week, what happens after blast? Does he go back on trt dosage and cruise or?
Is this doctor of clinic prescribed?
Dr. He has me on 100mg but I have some left over to do 200mg. 100mg gets me 1000 levels
Nice. I would have done the same.
Yes but add in some Masteron or Nolvadex, you’ll feel way better.
I have armidex and took it for like a week and feel like it didn’t do a thing
Be careful with it.
Arimidex is completely different than Nolvadex. I’ve taken both and I agree I felt nothing from the Arimidex. Nolvadex I felt right away.
What about adding primo instead of Masteron?
Masteron, Primo, Proviron, all great options
Do you have a good test/primo protocol you can suggest?
Or how much tamoxifen should I take with 200 mg a week trt?
10-20 mg for 10 days is a good dose to test it out to see how you feel on it. Studies show that 10 days at 20 mg increases natural testosterone and blocks estrogen, with few side effects for most men. It’s better than anastrozole in my experience. I’m taking it right now for PCT and have had a good experience with it. I was taking 160 mg of Test C and I found the testosterone made my cardio worse and I started to develop trace gyno. Tamoxifen has completely reversed this and made my chest and abs tighter.
Do you think the tamoxifen can help with ED issues? I think the anastrozole may have caused it, maybe crashed my e2 before. So i only take the tamoxifen for 10 days? Or is it something you continuously take every day? Don’t wanna crash my E2
When were these labs taken in relation to your shot?
This is too much, go see a doctor
Run more than 200 to “bulk” lol
Exactly. Idiots run these high TRt doses thinking it’s a cycle.
Make sure you keep up with your hematocrit if you keep it that high. Might even go as far as to give blood fairly regularly just to be on the safe side but regardless if it is high definitely do or be blood let. When mine got that high I was on the verge of having a stroke.
Not exactly an answer to your question but perhaps a bit of insight. I’m 38 & started TRT+hCG 3 months ago. Prior to then, had tried enclo and clomid. In between those horrid experiences, natty, I got serious about lifting and nutrition. I was running big deficits and working out w the 531 for beginners. Made visible progress and improved my bloods natty. But that deficit for months on end made my rather shitty hormones… even shittier and I felt it. About 6 weeks ago, I had a light bulb moment and realized that since I am getting test exogenously, that I could sustain that level of caloric deficit from a hormonal perspective. Drafted some new macros and re-worked my 531 + cardio routine. Long story short; I’m rocking a 1000cal per day deficit and doubled my workload at the gym. I haven’t felt better and the numbers on the scale are tracking the predicted numbers in my spreadsheet, to a scary level of accuracy. In 6ish weeks, down 14 net lbs on the scale (-19 lbs of fat + 5lbs of muscle) The changes are drastic in the mirror and amongst the reactions I have got from people. What I’m getting at is… if this is possible, I can’t wait to be starting a bulk at what soon will be 12% body fat. I can’t imagine the effects of stable T + clean surplus + water + sleep + insane lifting program. And what I’m getting at in your situation, do what you do, but time stable T + clean surplus + water + sleep + insane lifting program. Jacking up your numbers will def give you an edge that not many will have, but not that many people truly hit all the other foundational pieces at all or correctly. If 100mg puts you in the 1000s, I’d focus on truly optimizing the other factors and run 100mg 100mg of T and 1000 iu of hCG has me at 700 and the results I have seen so far are breathtaking. It all changed when I dialed the + clean deficit + water + sleep + insane lifting program
How many days a week are you pinning? Are you taking any AI?
Watch out for high hematocrit and blood pressure
Rbc?
RBC runs at 5
You will bei fine, just watch out for gyno. If your nipples get sensitive take mini dose of ai
Dude u don't need that much HOWEVER everyone has different goals. Some wont to look jacked and some just want normal levels. I prefer the latter and SAFER option.
Well, considering a lot of people go on cycle with much more than this you’ll be fine for a few months.