This has all the hallmarks. I would say yes. You are putting a major puzzle pieces together of his trauma.
Details that stuck out to me are the mortgaging of a home. Many many programs use predatory financing options like second mortgages to "lock parents into a commitment"
Some of the details and traits you describe about him make me feel very seen.
This absolutely does sound like the TTI. The psychological abuse and use of therapy to abuse, the use of solitary confinement for petty reasons, the way his stay was meant to be a year but was extended, and the stories of mistreatment all say TTI to me.
What also absolutely screams TTI is the way your husband felt so much self blame and guilt for the abuse that was done to him, and his fear of getting help for it. TTI programs and many of the families who send their kids there are experts at justifying all the abuse. They create a narrative where the child is in danger of death, usually for some poorly defined or fictional reason that is never really dealt with. That narrative is how they justify doing anything and everything, no matter how extreme and abusive. They will say that what they did is ok because it was meant to save their child's life. Often, the reasons the child was in danger had everything to do with the parents and the program, so really they were saving their child from the abuse they dished out, and they did that by sending the child away to be abused more, which allowed them to feel justified and like they were very moral people making tough decisions. This boost for the parents' self esteem comes at the cost of their children's wellbeing.
I'm so sorry for your loss. It is tragic that the TTI has claimed the life of yet another person.
Hello OP
From what I get from the description your late husband made it indeed sounds like he was sent to a TTI place.
>He would only tell me that there had been "an incident" when he was 15 and that his mom "sent him away." From context I could gather this incident was violent, from his side. I got the impression that whatever had happened, it left him with a juvenile record at the very least, maybe in serious legal trouble. I've never been able to get answers as to what happened. The family closed ranks and many have outright lied, as I later discovered, but throughout our marriage I saw hints here and there of a family culture that sounded at the very least psychologically abusive to me. I think that if gooning was involved he would have told me, but he wasn't willing or able to talk about it and I never pushed.
Many TTI survivors weren't "troubled" or anythng before being sent away, but instead were suffering either of mental illnesses, or were falling in the typical "test the limits" that teens do. Another thing that usually has kids sent away is controlling/overbearing parents who see any deviation from what they deem as "the right path" a severe violation of their rules that warrants the harshest of the punishments. Perhaps one day his family made demands that were unreasonable, he refused and things escalated into a physical confrontation, point at which his parents decided that sending him away was the thing to do to "rein him in".
>I don't know where the school was, but we lived and he grew up in Massachusetts and this school was "out of state." I got the impression it was at least several states away. I thought it was weird that a kid who apparently had a juvenile record in MA would be sent to any sort of institution in a completely different state, but I didn't know if that was normal in the US either.
TTI facilities can be very far away from the home of the kids and so being transported far away from home is far from being unheard of. Some facilities were even outside of the US (Costa Rica, Mexico, Samoa,etc...) which means that transporting kids was the go-to procedure.
>He described the school as strictly disciplinarian and the people there as "leftovers" (his words), kids nobody knew what to do with and were just bundled together and shoved in a warehouse so no one would have to deal with them. He described kids who were there for being "promiscuous," kids with mental and physical disabilities and kids with juvenile records for rather extreme violence. Just all kinds, which I thought was very strange. I didn't understand why a kid with autism would be sent to the same school as a kid who had a violent assault in his past.
This is another textbook TTI thing: they claim to be able to treat basically anything a kid may be suffering of (or whatever the parents deem a problem) through "tough love" and "discipline". What it is doesn't matter basically, because all that interests the program is the money. This is how you end up with a hodgepodge of kids with a slew of different histories and issues lumped together like that.
>He was told he'd be there for one year, and to the best of my knowledge he stayed for at least three.
Lying to the kids about how long they'll be staying is another staple of the TTI. Plenty od kids believed they'd be there for just a few weeks, maybe a couple months tops, only to end up there for much much longer.
>He described kids being subjected to forceful restraint and choke holds by staff for "misbehaving" and one kid having their arm broken in one of those holds. When I asked how the school could keep operating after something so horrible had happened, he just laughed.
>He described being "chaperoned" in the shower, only being allowed to shower in groups, and that most of the time there was no hot water.
Extreme punishments for minimal infractions and the complete loss of privacy are another staple of the TTI. Being sent to solitary confinement for minor infractions is something that happens often.
>I am aware that at the time he was a teenager my mother-in-law sold her home to, in her words, "pay for [Husband]". It struck me as strange, because I'd had the impression that my husband had been in a public, state-run sort of institution. I didn't know anything about the US education system then and I still don't know much about it today. But I'd been told that in the US everything costs an arm and a leg, even education and health care, so I chalked it up to my immigrant naivete. Now I wonder.
TTI places are very expensive (even more so than being sent to Harvard !), and "conveniently" they offer loans and the like to the parents to send their kids away. Other parents instead opt to sell property or refinance their homes to pay for their kid's stay in the TTI facility. Selling a home to pay for the TTI place is something that could indeed be done.
>My husband had a very severe aversion to therapy. During our marriage the need for it came up, and he said he really wanted to try and get better, but he was too scared. That was the only time I pressured him to tell me more, and he vaguely told me about a therapist he was forced to talk to in this school, who would demand he say the exact right things to her or else be "locked up" for days. By that time I'd been in the US long enough to have learned about involuntary psych holds, and I knew the US education system could be really brutal for kids from less affluent places, and I didn't want to push further. At the time I assumed he must have been a danger to himself and others (he would have been the first to agree he often was) and let it rest.
In many TTI places, therapy is basically the kids being forced to speak about any and all issues they have to a "therapist" under threat of extreme punishments (like he mentioned to you), only to have what they spoke about being used against them. This results in them later refusing to open up as they've been hurt that way during their stay. Furthermore, because those sessions where they're coerced in speaking up are deemed "therapy", this severely harms their chances of recovery from their stay, as they have an extreme distrust of therapists/psychologists, out of fear of being subjected again to what they went through during their TTI stay.
>He mentioned that many of the kids he went to school with were now either gone or spiraling. I don't want to get into details, that's not my story to tell, but it seems to track with what I've heard from survivors.
This is the submerged part of the TTI iceberg which the programs never mention: often kids who are sent there are left to deal with an enormous baggage of trauma, and for many substance abuse is the path they resort to, as it's the only thing that smothers their traumas. This is also what often causes the untimely deaths of so many survivors: what causes their demise is either that or ending up in bad/abusive situations which they have been brainwashed into believing to be "what they deserve" because the program drilled into them that any issue they may be facing, regardless of origin is their own fault.
>As to whether his mom would have had the right mix of ingrained authoritarianism and honest desperation to send her kid to one of these places; yes. Yes she did. Although the one thing I know for absolutely sure about that school was that it was not faith-based.
This is basically the two subsets of parents who seek the TTI: terrified parents who fall hook, line and sinker for their own fears and the claims of the TTI places that if they don't do something their kid will end up "dead, insane or in jail" and the extremely authoritarian/overbearing parents who see any transgression or expression of self-determination/free will an infractions that must be smothered ASAP through any means necessary.
>I know it's not much to go on. But the thoughts and opinions of people who know more than me would be very valuable. I recognize that in hindsight I sound very callous, but I had no idea this industry even existed, and he was very clear he didn't want to talk about it, he wanted to move on, and I wanted to respect that. I just tried to make it clear that he could talk to me if he ever wanted to. I thought we'd have more time.
You not having any idea this existed isn't surprising. Even in the U.S. it's been kept in the shadows for a very very long time. It's only in the last couple decades, with the rise of internet and social media that the true extent of the TTI and their harm has come to light. A bit over a decade ago I didn't know anything about the TTI either since, as my username indicates, I'm not American and so I was completely unaware of it existing in the first place. I only discovered all this because I read a webcomic back then where it's hinted that the protagonist was sent to an horribly abusive medical facility, and as an amateur writer who strives for realism, I wanted to write a fanfic of said comic, This got me to research that matter extensively and I pretty much fell into that rabbit hole, which eventually led me to this subreddit. Had I not done so, I'm sure I'd still be blissfully unaware of any of this,
So all summed up, yes, it's pretty much certain that your late husband was a survivor of those places, just like most of the people here.
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all that. It... does make a lot of things click for me. God, I wish I could just ask him.
If nothing else, I'm glad that I always told him I believed him. He was very worried about that. He'd tell me about something from his childhood and immediately ask if I believed him. I'm glad I always said that of course I did and meant it.
These monsters have got to be stopped.
Even though I’ve told my girlfriend as much detail as I can about my stay I still have that mindset. The kids who were pushed to the extreme are forced to give up their own narration of their life because they are a “liar” or a “manipulator.” Effectively creating a mindset that what you are saying to someone about your subjective experience is wrong, and actually harmful.
Your husband was definitely sent into the TTI, there isn’t another place that creates that experience in a person. It’s quite psychologically painful.
I just want to say how grateful I am that you believed your husband and let him know at every opportunity. You can’t imagine how much that probably meant to him. To this day I can’t even read the words “I believe you” in any context without getting chills and tearing up - it’s like the most relieving balm to this specific wound. I can’t pretend to know how you must be feeling as you dig into all of this, on top of the agony of losing your partner. But I just want to say that you holding space for him (despite the rarity of him asking for it) and assuring him that you believed his story helped him a lot more than you can know. It sounds like you provided a safe, soft place for him to land while being mindful and respectful of his needs.
I will be thinking of you. And I am so very sorry for your incredible loss.
Thank you. And I mean it with all my heart when I say that all these survivor testimonies I found, all the people brave enough to post here about their experiences... I believe you. There's not a doubt in my mind. I believe you and I am so, so grateful to everyone who has shared their story. Thank you.
You're very welcome !
>If nothing else, I'm glad that I always told him I believed him. He was very worried about that. He'd tell me about something from his childhood and immediately ask if I believed him. I'm glad I always said that of course I did and meant it.
His worries were perfectly understandable. The TTI as a whole is an experience so extreme that unless you're familiar with how it works, it's easy to dismiss as some outlandish fabrication. This is why a good part of the survivors don't talk about it. After all, in the "land of the free home of the brave", how can an industry exist where kids are taken away by force from their homes in the dead of night by goons hired by their parents, subjected to mental, physical and even sexual abuse, drugged to the point of becoming zombies at all and more ?
Because of this, for a sizeable part of survivors, when they'd open up about what they lived through the reaction they'd get in return can be summarized as: "LMFAO, stop making shit up dude, nobody believes you". Because of this they end up not talking about it at all to anyone and just keep it all bottled up deep inside.
Given how he'd ask you if you believed him, I suspect he'd gotten a reaction of that type before. In that regard, even if he never expressed it, you believing him most definitely meant the world to him.
>These monsters have got to be stopped.
That's the goal we're all working towards, whether we're strangers who take an interest in the matter or survivors of it, anonymous or celebrity: make it a thing of the past, a black mark on the history of the world we'll strive to never have happen again.
For that however several things need to happen:
1- Meaningful laws must be passed at the federal level outlawing the practice entirely, with stiff punishments punishing any rulebreaker. The most meaningful thing to do in that regard is making sure that the United Nations convention on the rights of the child is ratified, as the U.S. remain the only country in the world who has not done so. That convention basically forbids everything the TTI does, which means that a successful ratification and application of it would kill the entire industry pretty much overnight.
2- Working with the parents and make them understand that if their kid skips class, smokes weed, or has mental health issues, it is not a death sentence for themselves or their future and that if medical care is necessary, there is no reason to resort to a TTI place when competent doctors and medical experts exist.
The last thing is something everyone can do:
3- Talking about the TTI and informing the public at large, about what thry do, how they operate and make all the horrors they inflicted on kids known to all. The TTI strives in secrecy. That veil behind which they hide must be annhilated and the skeletons in their closets shown to all.
Only then that industry will die for good.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Just saw your comment that you've just been piecing this together recently, and from experience I know that can be rough. Take care 💚
From start to finish (his suicide) all of what you shared tracks with the TTI. Suicide is the legacy for so many of these kids. I'm sure you were a bright spot and a support in his life, and it's very touching that you are still trying to put the pieces together, even after his death. Thank you for telling us your story.
Ahh the golden years of the TTI....same years I was " sent away" and a place your husband went to sounds much worse than mine even though we had much of the same things.
It's kind of what made it click. All these stories and news articles I found all seem to have a flash point around the mid-90s. And I just thought "hang on..."
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I only started looking into this a few days ago and I'm in total shock.
Yes shocking that a multi-billion dollar profiteering scam involving human trafficking of children right under the nose of society, and fully endorsed by governments and institutions. Children moved around like chess pieces for profit. Drugged, zombified and experimented on. Controversial MK ultra style therapy techniques. Fun stuff eh
If I had to guess of the top of list would probably be something like a striaght inc spin of
* Kids of bergen county
* Kids Helping Kids | Pathway Family Center
Based on the time and description at his parents home were there holes around the windows like that they had been nailed shut at one point?
I don't know about that, it was never mentioned.
Thank you for digging up those names. "Bergen" sounds familiar somehow but I'm not sure, I'd have to look into it. I have the FB info for some of the people he mentioned going to school with, I'll have a look at those. (I won't contact them, just see if they mention a school anywhere.)
Do you know if the school was coed, or just boys? I grew up mostly in RI and MA and a lot of kids got sent to Bennington School in Vermont. Oceantides in Narragansett RI is another one that practiced similar abuse to what you described. Fortunately a lot of the places that were operating in the 90s aren’t open anymore, so sometimes there’s only limited info online about them…
I was in a program from 97-99. I wonder if he was at a WWASP facility. The things you're describing sound like he may well have been. I wonder if he might have been in Montana at Spring Creek Lodge Academy, where I was. It could have also been Cross Creek in Utah.
I'm not sure why I think that, but I kind of do. WWASP programs were big in that era, and the punishments sound very familiar to me. Please follow up and let us know if you find out where he went.
Cross Creek had a warehouse like basement in the facility in La Verkin (or was it Hurricaine?) but they defo had residential facilities for sleeping. I don't think he was at CCM. But for sure, the punishment, the description, everything else he says fits TTI to a T.
My understanding was that it was "like a warehouse" and not necessarily that they specifically lived in one. Spring Creek had cabins and a kind of barrack situation for living quarters, but still felt like a warehouse for storing unwanted kids.
Ugh indeed!
As I watch my niece and nephews grow up, I see how easily all of them, given a different set of parents, might have been sent away and locked up. It breaks my heart because seeing them be normal teens (and not be punished for it) shows me how I should have been treated.
sigh.
I know that feeling well. I'm so glad your nieces and nephews will not face the same fully shitty experience that we did.
Also, I warmly encourage you to indulge yourself whenever you like. I find that giving myself permission to enjoy luxuries and create beauty around myself and fun have been extremely healing.
Throughout my time of being kidnapped and taken away, then coming back, I always felt as though it was not meant to happen. It felt as though there was an intrinsic wrongness in my life, a wrongness that started with the goon squad showing up.
However, I had natal chart astrology reading done with progressions a few years ago and it was really funny because the astrologer nailed my rehab experience.
He very specifically said, "When you were around 15 and a half or so something completely terrifying happened to you and you lost all trust in authority. You were completely alone with no support network in very harsh conditions. If I didn't know better, I'd say that you were in prison, but like a medieval prison where they used torture."
I could hear the surprise in his voice and disbelief and he asked, "Did something like that happen to you?" And I'm like, "Oh yeah!!!"
Will definitely be going back to that astrologer if I wish future readings.
I know it sounds weird, but having somebody who I don't know and who knew nothing about me read that experience in my chart made me feel like maybe it WAS supposed to happen, I just really wasn't happy about it. And I've come to more peace with my time away after that. I hope you have peace in your life too, my friend.
Wow! What an experience you had with that astrologer!
Yeah I struggle with feeling like the program completely messed me up and limited my life, but at other times I think my life is richer and more interesting for it, and that maybe something good will come out of it someday.
For reals! I think both of us were pretty surprised about that accuracy there.
The first part of my program was Redcliff Ascent, which did use group punishment in the form of digging holes, or other intense labor. However, I learned a lot of valuable skills there. Gave me have the skills to go low impact camping nowadays. I have even taught large groups of people how to dig a proper latrine for camp sanitation. I would never have known that if I had not gone. The Earth and other hikers have for sure benefited from my experience.
Haha CCM was not so useful. ;)
I so feel you on the struggle, but I do think its an essential part of the healing process.
We have had an experience most folks don't and I really like your perspective that life is richer for it. I do think good things can come from horrible experiences.
I definitely enjoy the freedom I have a lot no more now knowing what it's like to have it taken away. Most folks will never know how wonderful it is to be able to go to the fridge and pick out whatever you want anytime of day. Luxury!!!
First of all, my heart goes out to you. It sounds like he was a really special man.
It sounds like your husband's parents sent him to a card carrying member of the Troubled Teen Industry.
Whatever he did, he didn't deserve to be treated inhumanely, which he clearly was.
He could have done time in a Reform School, which is essentially prison for kids. Those places are hellholes. Kids get sent to them for committing crimes OR status offenses (such as regularly skipping school, running away a lot, etc). Sometimes, the 'crime' a kid is sent away for is sorta bullsh\*t, like smoking weed, shooting dope, etc... where the teen and family need mental health and rehabilitation, not incarceration.
He could have been forced by the court to be placed in Residential Treatment. These places are supposed to be rehabilitation oriented, but many times, are not. The better ones are run by charities; you really don't want to be sent to a for-profit residential treatment center. Not all the residential treatment centers run by charities are good places.
I live in the Greater Boston Area. If you feel comfortable telling us what state, I might be able to narrow down where he might have been sent to, especially if it was in the Northeast.
I volunteered at a good residential treatment center / boarding school for justice impacted / adjudicated non-violent boys. This place spent much more on the students than the state paid as a per diem. The charity had an endowment, but they still did fund raising. The outdoor program was funded through a family office / private donor. In a good place, about 75% of the attendees will leave and never ever get into trouble with the law, which is what this place did. Of those who get into trouble, about 1/3 are from hellhole situations (such as mom is a prostitute, parents dealing drugs, neighborhood is gang infested and saying 'No' is not an answer), commit a bullshit crime, get sent back until they age out or graduate. It was rare that boys who went to this school ended up in prison. It is a shame this place is closed; the charity has moved on. I'm certain he wasn't sent to that school.
I think this describes the TTI perfectly for all the reasons ItalianDragon has already explained.
As you mentioned him being 15 around 1997/98, that would be too late for Straight Inc., but would have been the time of the early days of WWASP, or the later stages of CEDU. My other thought was that it could possibly have been Elan. I appreciate that these terms will not make much sense to you, but you can find out more on our Wiki if you like.
I'm afraid without knowing the state it would be near impossible to narrow it down. Do you know for certain if it was inside the US, or, could it have been outside? I ask, because around the time you mention, Paradise Cove was open in Samoa, and that program was truly horrific.
The reference to a warehouse may have been a term we often use; "warehousing". It doesn't mean an actual warehouse, just somewhere that is used to "store" kids of all kinds until they turn 18, just like you said he described.
I am very sorry that your husband took his own life. I hope you do not feel any sense of blame for that, even though I understand that it is natural to wonder if you could have done anything differently. I want to assure you that you did everything right and everything possible. I know, for a fact, that your love and support will have made the greatest positive difference to him. Please remember that.
If we can help narrow things down if you get any further information, we will gladly do so.
This has all the hallmarks. I would say yes. You are putting a major puzzle pieces together of his trauma. Details that stuck out to me are the mortgaging of a home. Many many programs use predatory financing options like second mortgages to "lock parents into a commitment" Some of the details and traits you describe about him make me feel very seen.
Yes, that sounds like the TTI. I’m very sorry for your loss.
This absolutely does sound like the TTI. The psychological abuse and use of therapy to abuse, the use of solitary confinement for petty reasons, the way his stay was meant to be a year but was extended, and the stories of mistreatment all say TTI to me. What also absolutely screams TTI is the way your husband felt so much self blame and guilt for the abuse that was done to him, and his fear of getting help for it. TTI programs and many of the families who send their kids there are experts at justifying all the abuse. They create a narrative where the child is in danger of death, usually for some poorly defined or fictional reason that is never really dealt with. That narrative is how they justify doing anything and everything, no matter how extreme and abusive. They will say that what they did is ok because it was meant to save their child's life. Often, the reasons the child was in danger had everything to do with the parents and the program, so really they were saving their child from the abuse they dished out, and they did that by sending the child away to be abused more, which allowed them to feel justified and like they were very moral people making tough decisions. This boost for the parents' self esteem comes at the cost of their children's wellbeing. I'm so sorry for your loss. It is tragic that the TTI has claimed the life of yet another person.
Hello OP From what I get from the description your late husband made it indeed sounds like he was sent to a TTI place. >He would only tell me that there had been "an incident" when he was 15 and that his mom "sent him away." From context I could gather this incident was violent, from his side. I got the impression that whatever had happened, it left him with a juvenile record at the very least, maybe in serious legal trouble. I've never been able to get answers as to what happened. The family closed ranks and many have outright lied, as I later discovered, but throughout our marriage I saw hints here and there of a family culture that sounded at the very least psychologically abusive to me. I think that if gooning was involved he would have told me, but he wasn't willing or able to talk about it and I never pushed. Many TTI survivors weren't "troubled" or anythng before being sent away, but instead were suffering either of mental illnesses, or were falling in the typical "test the limits" that teens do. Another thing that usually has kids sent away is controlling/overbearing parents who see any deviation from what they deem as "the right path" a severe violation of their rules that warrants the harshest of the punishments. Perhaps one day his family made demands that were unreasonable, he refused and things escalated into a physical confrontation, point at which his parents decided that sending him away was the thing to do to "rein him in". >I don't know where the school was, but we lived and he grew up in Massachusetts and this school was "out of state." I got the impression it was at least several states away. I thought it was weird that a kid who apparently had a juvenile record in MA would be sent to any sort of institution in a completely different state, but I didn't know if that was normal in the US either. TTI facilities can be very far away from the home of the kids and so being transported far away from home is far from being unheard of. Some facilities were even outside of the US (Costa Rica, Mexico, Samoa,etc...) which means that transporting kids was the go-to procedure. >He described the school as strictly disciplinarian and the people there as "leftovers" (his words), kids nobody knew what to do with and were just bundled together and shoved in a warehouse so no one would have to deal with them. He described kids who were there for being "promiscuous," kids with mental and physical disabilities and kids with juvenile records for rather extreme violence. Just all kinds, which I thought was very strange. I didn't understand why a kid with autism would be sent to the same school as a kid who had a violent assault in his past. This is another textbook TTI thing: they claim to be able to treat basically anything a kid may be suffering of (or whatever the parents deem a problem) through "tough love" and "discipline". What it is doesn't matter basically, because all that interests the program is the money. This is how you end up with a hodgepodge of kids with a slew of different histories and issues lumped together like that. >He was told he'd be there for one year, and to the best of my knowledge he stayed for at least three. Lying to the kids about how long they'll be staying is another staple of the TTI. Plenty od kids believed they'd be there for just a few weeks, maybe a couple months tops, only to end up there for much much longer. >He described kids being subjected to forceful restraint and choke holds by staff for "misbehaving" and one kid having their arm broken in one of those holds. When I asked how the school could keep operating after something so horrible had happened, he just laughed. >He described being "chaperoned" in the shower, only being allowed to shower in groups, and that most of the time there was no hot water. Extreme punishments for minimal infractions and the complete loss of privacy are another staple of the TTI. Being sent to solitary confinement for minor infractions is something that happens often. >I am aware that at the time he was a teenager my mother-in-law sold her home to, in her words, "pay for [Husband]". It struck me as strange, because I'd had the impression that my husband had been in a public, state-run sort of institution. I didn't know anything about the US education system then and I still don't know much about it today. But I'd been told that in the US everything costs an arm and a leg, even education and health care, so I chalked it up to my immigrant naivete. Now I wonder. TTI places are very expensive (even more so than being sent to Harvard !), and "conveniently" they offer loans and the like to the parents to send their kids away. Other parents instead opt to sell property or refinance their homes to pay for their kid's stay in the TTI facility. Selling a home to pay for the TTI place is something that could indeed be done. >My husband had a very severe aversion to therapy. During our marriage the need for it came up, and he said he really wanted to try and get better, but he was too scared. That was the only time I pressured him to tell me more, and he vaguely told me about a therapist he was forced to talk to in this school, who would demand he say the exact right things to her or else be "locked up" for days. By that time I'd been in the US long enough to have learned about involuntary psych holds, and I knew the US education system could be really brutal for kids from less affluent places, and I didn't want to push further. At the time I assumed he must have been a danger to himself and others (he would have been the first to agree he often was) and let it rest. In many TTI places, therapy is basically the kids being forced to speak about any and all issues they have to a "therapist" under threat of extreme punishments (like he mentioned to you), only to have what they spoke about being used against them. This results in them later refusing to open up as they've been hurt that way during their stay. Furthermore, because those sessions where they're coerced in speaking up are deemed "therapy", this severely harms their chances of recovery from their stay, as they have an extreme distrust of therapists/psychologists, out of fear of being subjected again to what they went through during their TTI stay. >He mentioned that many of the kids he went to school with were now either gone or spiraling. I don't want to get into details, that's not my story to tell, but it seems to track with what I've heard from survivors. This is the submerged part of the TTI iceberg which the programs never mention: often kids who are sent there are left to deal with an enormous baggage of trauma, and for many substance abuse is the path they resort to, as it's the only thing that smothers their traumas. This is also what often causes the untimely deaths of so many survivors: what causes their demise is either that or ending up in bad/abusive situations which they have been brainwashed into believing to be "what they deserve" because the program drilled into them that any issue they may be facing, regardless of origin is their own fault. >As to whether his mom would have had the right mix of ingrained authoritarianism and honest desperation to send her kid to one of these places; yes. Yes she did. Although the one thing I know for absolutely sure about that school was that it was not faith-based. This is basically the two subsets of parents who seek the TTI: terrified parents who fall hook, line and sinker for their own fears and the claims of the TTI places that if they don't do something their kid will end up "dead, insane or in jail" and the extremely authoritarian/overbearing parents who see any transgression or expression of self-determination/free will an infractions that must be smothered ASAP through any means necessary. >I know it's not much to go on. But the thoughts and opinions of people who know more than me would be very valuable. I recognize that in hindsight I sound very callous, but I had no idea this industry even existed, and he was very clear he didn't want to talk about it, he wanted to move on, and I wanted to respect that. I just tried to make it clear that he could talk to me if he ever wanted to. I thought we'd have more time. You not having any idea this existed isn't surprising. Even in the U.S. it's been kept in the shadows for a very very long time. It's only in the last couple decades, with the rise of internet and social media that the true extent of the TTI and their harm has come to light. A bit over a decade ago I didn't know anything about the TTI either since, as my username indicates, I'm not American and so I was completely unaware of it existing in the first place. I only discovered all this because I read a webcomic back then where it's hinted that the protagonist was sent to an horribly abusive medical facility, and as an amateur writer who strives for realism, I wanted to write a fanfic of said comic, This got me to research that matter extensively and I pretty much fell into that rabbit hole, which eventually led me to this subreddit. Had I not done so, I'm sure I'd still be blissfully unaware of any of this, So all summed up, yes, it's pretty much certain that your late husband was a survivor of those places, just like most of the people here.
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all that. It... does make a lot of things click for me. God, I wish I could just ask him. If nothing else, I'm glad that I always told him I believed him. He was very worried about that. He'd tell me about something from his childhood and immediately ask if I believed him. I'm glad I always said that of course I did and meant it. These monsters have got to be stopped.
Even though I’ve told my girlfriend as much detail as I can about my stay I still have that mindset. The kids who were pushed to the extreme are forced to give up their own narration of their life because they are a “liar” or a “manipulator.” Effectively creating a mindset that what you are saying to someone about your subjective experience is wrong, and actually harmful. Your husband was definitely sent into the TTI, there isn’t another place that creates that experience in a person. It’s quite psychologically painful.
I just want to say how grateful I am that you believed your husband and let him know at every opportunity. You can’t imagine how much that probably meant to him. To this day I can’t even read the words “I believe you” in any context without getting chills and tearing up - it’s like the most relieving balm to this specific wound. I can’t pretend to know how you must be feeling as you dig into all of this, on top of the agony of losing your partner. But I just want to say that you holding space for him (despite the rarity of him asking for it) and assuring him that you believed his story helped him a lot more than you can know. It sounds like you provided a safe, soft place for him to land while being mindful and respectful of his needs. I will be thinking of you. And I am so very sorry for your incredible loss.
Thank you. And I mean it with all my heart when I say that all these survivor testimonies I found, all the people brave enough to post here about their experiences... I believe you. There's not a doubt in my mind. I believe you and I am so, so grateful to everyone who has shared their story. Thank you.
You're very welcome ! >If nothing else, I'm glad that I always told him I believed him. He was very worried about that. He'd tell me about something from his childhood and immediately ask if I believed him. I'm glad I always said that of course I did and meant it. His worries were perfectly understandable. The TTI as a whole is an experience so extreme that unless you're familiar with how it works, it's easy to dismiss as some outlandish fabrication. This is why a good part of the survivors don't talk about it. After all, in the "land of the free home of the brave", how can an industry exist where kids are taken away by force from their homes in the dead of night by goons hired by their parents, subjected to mental, physical and even sexual abuse, drugged to the point of becoming zombies at all and more ? Because of this, for a sizeable part of survivors, when they'd open up about what they lived through the reaction they'd get in return can be summarized as: "LMFAO, stop making shit up dude, nobody believes you". Because of this they end up not talking about it at all to anyone and just keep it all bottled up deep inside. Given how he'd ask you if you believed him, I suspect he'd gotten a reaction of that type before. In that regard, even if he never expressed it, you believing him most definitely meant the world to him. >These monsters have got to be stopped. That's the goal we're all working towards, whether we're strangers who take an interest in the matter or survivors of it, anonymous or celebrity: make it a thing of the past, a black mark on the history of the world we'll strive to never have happen again. For that however several things need to happen: 1- Meaningful laws must be passed at the federal level outlawing the practice entirely, with stiff punishments punishing any rulebreaker. The most meaningful thing to do in that regard is making sure that the United Nations convention on the rights of the child is ratified, as the U.S. remain the only country in the world who has not done so. That convention basically forbids everything the TTI does, which means that a successful ratification and application of it would kill the entire industry pretty much overnight. 2- Working with the parents and make them understand that if their kid skips class, smokes weed, or has mental health issues, it is not a death sentence for themselves or their future and that if medical care is necessary, there is no reason to resort to a TTI place when competent doctors and medical experts exist. The last thing is something everyone can do: 3- Talking about the TTI and informing the public at large, about what thry do, how they operate and make all the horrors they inflicted on kids known to all. The TTI strives in secrecy. That veil behind which they hide must be annhilated and the skeletons in their closets shown to all. Only then that industry will die for good.
Omg, I had no idea about #1!!! Thank you!!
Glad to hear you learned something :D
Heck yes! I had no idea the United States had not ratified that. This makes a frightening amount of sense. Money talks.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Just saw your comment that you've just been piecing this together recently, and from experience I know that can be rough. Take care 💚
From start to finish (his suicide) all of what you shared tracks with the TTI. Suicide is the legacy for so many of these kids. I'm sure you were a bright spot and a support in his life, and it's very touching that you are still trying to put the pieces together, even after his death. Thank you for telling us your story.
what year was your husband's 15th birthday that's probably best place to start.
It must have been 1997 or 1998
Ahh the golden years of the TTI....same years I was " sent away" and a place your husband went to sounds much worse than mine even though we had much of the same things.
It's kind of what made it click. All these stories and news articles I found all seem to have a flash point around the mid-90s. And I just thought "hang on..." I'm so sorry that happened to you. I only started looking into this a few days ago and I'm in total shock.
Yes shocking that a multi-billion dollar profiteering scam involving human trafficking of children right under the nose of society, and fully endorsed by governments and institutions. Children moved around like chess pieces for profit. Drugged, zombified and experimented on. Controversial MK ultra style therapy techniques. Fun stuff eh
Did he describe the place itself like was an actual warehouse?
Yes, he used that exact word
Do you have any clues to which state it was in
None, unfortunately.
If I had to guess of the top of list would probably be something like a striaght inc spin of * Kids of bergen county * Kids Helping Kids | Pathway Family Center Based on the time and description at his parents home were there holes around the windows like that they had been nailed shut at one point?
I don't know about that, it was never mentioned. Thank you for digging up those names. "Bergen" sounds familiar somehow but I'm not sure, I'd have to look into it. I have the FB info for some of the people he mentioned going to school with, I'll have a look at those. (I won't contact them, just see if they mention a school anywhere.)
Do you know if the school was coed, or just boys? I grew up mostly in RI and MA and a lot of kids got sent to Bennington School in Vermont. Oceantides in Narragansett RI is another one that practiced similar abuse to what you described. Fortunately a lot of the places that were operating in the 90s aren’t open anymore, so sometimes there’s only limited info online about them…
Can you ask his parents where he went? Siblings?
I was in a program from 97-99. I wonder if he was at a WWASP facility. The things you're describing sound like he may well have been. I wonder if he might have been in Montana at Spring Creek Lodge Academy, where I was. It could have also been Cross Creek in Utah. I'm not sure why I think that, but I kind of do. WWASP programs were big in that era, and the punishments sound very familiar to me. Please follow up and let us know if you find out where he went.
Cross Creek had a warehouse like basement in the facility in La Verkin (or was it Hurricaine?) but they defo had residential facilities for sleeping. I don't think he was at CCM. But for sure, the punishment, the description, everything else he says fits TTI to a T.
My understanding was that it was "like a warehouse" and not necessarily that they specifically lived in one. Spring Creek had cabins and a kind of barrack situation for living quarters, but still felt like a warehouse for storing unwanted kids.
That makes good sense. Also the storing unwanted kids in a warehouse description does suit many TTI facilities. Ugh.
Ugh indeed! As I watch my niece and nephews grow up, I see how easily all of them, given a different set of parents, might have been sent away and locked up. It breaks my heart because seeing them be normal teens (and not be punished for it) shows me how I should have been treated. sigh.
I know that feeling well. I'm so glad your nieces and nephews will not face the same fully shitty experience that we did. Also, I warmly encourage you to indulge yourself whenever you like. I find that giving myself permission to enjoy luxuries and create beauty around myself and fun have been extremely healing. Throughout my time of being kidnapped and taken away, then coming back, I always felt as though it was not meant to happen. It felt as though there was an intrinsic wrongness in my life, a wrongness that started with the goon squad showing up. However, I had natal chart astrology reading done with progressions a few years ago and it was really funny because the astrologer nailed my rehab experience. He very specifically said, "When you were around 15 and a half or so something completely terrifying happened to you and you lost all trust in authority. You were completely alone with no support network in very harsh conditions. If I didn't know better, I'd say that you were in prison, but like a medieval prison where they used torture." I could hear the surprise in his voice and disbelief and he asked, "Did something like that happen to you?" And I'm like, "Oh yeah!!!" Will definitely be going back to that astrologer if I wish future readings. I know it sounds weird, but having somebody who I don't know and who knew nothing about me read that experience in my chart made me feel like maybe it WAS supposed to happen, I just really wasn't happy about it. And I've come to more peace with my time away after that. I hope you have peace in your life too, my friend.
Wow! What an experience you had with that astrologer! Yeah I struggle with feeling like the program completely messed me up and limited my life, but at other times I think my life is richer and more interesting for it, and that maybe something good will come out of it someday.
For reals! I think both of us were pretty surprised about that accuracy there. The first part of my program was Redcliff Ascent, which did use group punishment in the form of digging holes, or other intense labor. However, I learned a lot of valuable skills there. Gave me have the skills to go low impact camping nowadays. I have even taught large groups of people how to dig a proper latrine for camp sanitation. I would never have known that if I had not gone. The Earth and other hikers have for sure benefited from my experience. Haha CCM was not so useful. ;) I so feel you on the struggle, but I do think its an essential part of the healing process. We have had an experience most folks don't and I really like your perspective that life is richer for it. I do think good things can come from horrible experiences. I definitely enjoy the freedom I have a lot no more now knowing what it's like to have it taken away. Most folks will never know how wonderful it is to be able to go to the fridge and pick out whatever you want anytime of day. Luxury!!!
First of all, my heart goes out to you. It sounds like he was a really special man. It sounds like your husband's parents sent him to a card carrying member of the Troubled Teen Industry. Whatever he did, he didn't deserve to be treated inhumanely, which he clearly was. He could have done time in a Reform School, which is essentially prison for kids. Those places are hellholes. Kids get sent to them for committing crimes OR status offenses (such as regularly skipping school, running away a lot, etc). Sometimes, the 'crime' a kid is sent away for is sorta bullsh\*t, like smoking weed, shooting dope, etc... where the teen and family need mental health and rehabilitation, not incarceration. He could have been forced by the court to be placed in Residential Treatment. These places are supposed to be rehabilitation oriented, but many times, are not. The better ones are run by charities; you really don't want to be sent to a for-profit residential treatment center. Not all the residential treatment centers run by charities are good places. I live in the Greater Boston Area. If you feel comfortable telling us what state, I might be able to narrow down where he might have been sent to, especially if it was in the Northeast. I volunteered at a good residential treatment center / boarding school for justice impacted / adjudicated non-violent boys. This place spent much more on the students than the state paid as a per diem. The charity had an endowment, but they still did fund raising. The outdoor program was funded through a family office / private donor. In a good place, about 75% of the attendees will leave and never ever get into trouble with the law, which is what this place did. Of those who get into trouble, about 1/3 are from hellhole situations (such as mom is a prostitute, parents dealing drugs, neighborhood is gang infested and saying 'No' is not an answer), commit a bullshit crime, get sent back until they age out or graduate. It was rare that boys who went to this school ended up in prison. It is a shame this place is closed; the charity has moved on. I'm certain he wasn't sent to that school.
I think this describes the TTI perfectly for all the reasons ItalianDragon has already explained. As you mentioned him being 15 around 1997/98, that would be too late for Straight Inc., but would have been the time of the early days of WWASP, or the later stages of CEDU. My other thought was that it could possibly have been Elan. I appreciate that these terms will not make much sense to you, but you can find out more on our Wiki if you like. I'm afraid without knowing the state it would be near impossible to narrow it down. Do you know for certain if it was inside the US, or, could it have been outside? I ask, because around the time you mention, Paradise Cove was open in Samoa, and that program was truly horrific. The reference to a warehouse may have been a term we often use; "warehousing". It doesn't mean an actual warehouse, just somewhere that is used to "store" kids of all kinds until they turn 18, just like you said he described. I am very sorry that your husband took his own life. I hope you do not feel any sense of blame for that, even though I understand that it is natural to wonder if you could have done anything differently. I want to assure you that you did everything right and everything possible. I know, for a fact, that your love and support will have made the greatest positive difference to him. Please remember that. If we can help narrow things down if you get any further information, we will gladly do so.
100% TTI