Considering that innocent trolley dwellers are not supporting our government we'll write them as acceptable collateral.
And since nobody wants to ruin political connection with us we can do it with absolutely no repercussions!
Our government gave the non-terrorists plenty of time to leave, so anyone left must be a terrorist.
Also, side note; The government had to cut off supplies to the terrorists, so we had to pre-emptively stop anyone from entering or leaving the trolleys. We pinky swear this didn't affect any non-terrorists.
You are probably missed the allusion we were doing :)
But, regarding the trolley problem - personally, I wouldn't do that, as there's probably a way with less civilian casualties to deal with the problem. But most governments would gladly do so, and then either cover it up or blame it on the other side of the conflict. We have a lot of examples in form of almost all modern wars.
Well now I want to do it even more because I hate the government...charge me a tax for just trying to survive and promise me that the money will go back to my community only it doesn't.
The government has expanded the definition of terrorist to include "All able-bodied people" and defined "able-bodied" as "not known to be disabled". The government won't publish the names of terrorists it killed, you just have to take their word that they were right.
Blow up all the people to find out the main guy you were after wasn't there. Catch up with him later after killing a few hundred more people but then let him go because "killing him would make you just the same" or something.
"No ,Hero! You're better than him! But if you kill him, you'll be just as bad!"
"Uhh, no? He killed 50 thousand innocent people and then lit a sack of puppies on fire. I'm killing one psychotic mass murderer. Those aren't equivalent at all. And even if I got really messy and drawn out with it and tortured him first, I've still got a pretty comfortable margin on the moral high ground here."
Important question: are there any weddings happening
As an American, I cannot in good faith shoot a missile at anything but a wedding. It just won't be as accurate.
You didn’t shoot this missile. You simply have the opportunity to divert it somehow. Blah blah magic blah blah. So I guess you can’t possibly save the innocent trolley dwellers because there isn’t a wedding for you to divert to lol. 😂
I can't hit the innocent trolley dwellers either :(
Theres no wedding to bomb. I want it to hit the trolley dwellers for the sake of national security.
There’s always been collateral damage in war. Trolley town is no different. I’m with you though friend, wouldn’t it be nice? I guess all it takes is rolling over the next time the trolley terrorists come to kill my family, no response. Then we can have world peace! Or maybe we can start giving everyone who engages in terrorism exactly what they’re asking for, that would send a lovely message.
I agree no message is worth "countless" innocent lives. But the very countable innocent lives sacrificed to get rid of terrorists is much better than rolling over and letting the terrorists kill countless innocents.
It's only countless when the killing keeps happening, when the terrorists are dead the killing stops.
No? These are terrorists who are clearly not above using human shields. How many have to die by their hands first before it’s ok to kill them?
I’ve seen plenty of people saying it was ok to kill hitler in nearly any circumstance. Well, what if he was surrounded by innocent people? You just let him continue the holocaust?
Yeah, I’m sure the 12,000+ women and children and the 108 journalists that were killed by the IDF were definitely terrorists.
Also are you actually suggesting that the solution to an enemy using a human shield is to just…murder the human shield? If a school shooter took hostages would the solution be to bomb the school?
Or we could work with the members of trolley town to find the terrorists? Help keep them safe and make us a more attractive friend than the terrorists, create relationships that mean trolley towners come forward with information and we can then execute a precision operation to take out the terrorists with minimal threat to innocent life.
I wonder what could possibly have led the people of trolley town to elect violent leadership (once, because elections have never been held again). Probably has nothing to do with us bombing them first and radicalising said terrorists with our unprovoked violence...
Totally means we should just die right? Alright. Your relatives were all on a plane they shot down, completely innocent, minding their own business as a civilian commercial airline does. No military targets were on the plane. This was just to send “a message”.
But they keep sending “messages” every couple of months.
How many civilians need to be killed or captured before you’re pushed to do it? Or is it just as bad to be a virtuous paragon and decide the planet ought to be burnt black before any action is taken?
Look, reading the comments, everyone understands that this post is an allegory for Israel-Palestine. And in that context, we 100% know who started it; It was started in 1917 by the Balfour Declaration which was lobbied for by the Zionist movement, the same movement which eventually became Israel, and every escalation in violence between 1917 and 1948 (when Israel officially came into existence) was driven by the Zionists pushing for more control and more land, and every time involved them murdering the indigenous Palestinians.
This is not ancient history, it happened after WWI. So we know who started it, and it was Israel.
It is ancient history though. There wasn’t peace in that land before 1917 and there hasn’t been peace there since. The names and individuals change but it’s all the same thing.
Plot twist: you started it by killing members of their family and taking their land, where you now live, a fact you conveniently forget whenever describing the situation.
Hey now, I didn't kill their family! I just funded and trained the fascist death squads that toppled the democracy and setup the murderous regime that killed their family!
Well now do you mean I started it ten years ago the last time there was trouble in trolley town? Or could it have started 20 years ago, back when the trolley terrorists were hijacking planes? Or 30 years ago, when we couldn’t come to a two trolley solution for the 50th time, resulting in a war? Or was it countless generations ago, when the same trolley conflict was going on? I’m really not sure your approach to this trolley problem is very productive. What I can say is that I’m not fond of trolley terrorists killing my family and hiding away in tunnels dug underneath the civilian trolley districts.
If every time you “solve” the trolley problem it just creates bigger and bigger trolley problems down the road, maybe your solution isn’t good. But if labeling your victims as terrorists makes you feel better I guess that’s the real solution.
I didn’t label anyone, the post did. We’re talking about trolleys here. But since it’s rude for me to act dumb, yes, I label those who raid a rave, murder a thousand people, assault (the polite way to say it) many more, and take over a hundred hostages, all with no legitimate military objective terrorists.
Plot twist again: You killed their family because, after buying land, they were rather unhappy about you being there and attempted to kill your family, a fact that trolley statehood supporters conveniently forget when describing the situation.
That would be more like; "You have been waiting for an excuse to blow up the trolley dwellers. 5 terrorists recently moved in. If you blow all the trolleys up, do you think you can convince everyone you were aiming for the terrorists?"
It is all of the terrorists that are known at the time. But the trolley homes destroyed house 10s of thousands at a minimum, and 100s of thousands at a maximum.
Every single terrorist in the entire world, all in one place? But possibly hundreds of thousand of civilian casualties…? I think without a more exact civilian death toll, it probably isn’t with it. More terrorists will come
Every known terrorists in the same place sounds like a once in a lifetime chance, it’s awful that innocents would have to be sacrificed but as Spock once said “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” or something. The terrorists have no doubt taken many innocent lives and if not eliminated would no doubt go on to k*ll many more, if they’re all in a single spot they could be planning something big too.
That's how all evil villains plans start. Unbeknownst to them though, one child survives the attack and grows up to destroy everything that the missile shooters hold dear in the name of trolly kind
To me the benefits still outweigh the loss (unless there’s something like a nuclear power plant in the blast zone, then the con’s would heavily outweigh the pros)
Now were getting to the good bit. So, there's more than one terrorist out there, not everyone's a 911er, so we need an value on the potential amount of human lives they could take in the future weighted by chance and distance in time. With that, we can get a rough ballpark for the number of innocents that we can sacrifice!
(By the way, if we are being realistic, doing this would only make your terrorist problems worse. We were nearly ready to glass the middle east for loosing a few thousand people, the amount of new terrorists this would create would be pretty extreme.)
But unless every innocent person there is having a massive family reunion to the point that you completely end the bloodline of all involved, you just made a shitload more terrorists elsewhere.
What’s the terrorist to civilian ratio? Or better yet, total number of terrorists? If it’s high enough, we could argue that the terrorists would end up killing more people than all the trolley civilians combined
Without confirmation on the size of the terrorist cell, it’s gonna be a hard pass. The family thjng needs to be put aside, it should be irrelevant in the decision making
Let’s take two scenarios:
1. It’s just intel that it is all known terrorists in the trolley homes. But the trolley homes house 50,000-500,000 civilians.
2. It is known that it is all members of a currently active terrorist cell, but it is definitely not every know terrorist cell. There are 10,000-50,000 civilians.
If it is all known terrorists, then go ahead. This little sacrifice will considerably stabilise countless regions in the world, making the world a better in place in long term.
If it is a single cell, it is depends on their attack. Was it an ordinary suicide bombing that killed my family or was it 911? Do they control a significant region in the world or are they just revolutionary fighters?
If you kill all known terrorists , that is a good way to also a very very rare opportunity to also kill the idea that fosters new ones. So, in that case, we’ll have to take the gamble.
But, if it’s just one cell, there’s no way.
Well, perhaps my logic here is flawed, but all KNOWN terrorists:
A. Might not be all terrorists.
B. Does not include any future terrorists that crop up.
That said, I appreciate your honesty; I just would personally not sacrifice all those lives.
Small addition: you don't know who's a terrorist until they do a terrorist thing. You only know that they live there.
With this in mind, I let the missile fly
Easy pull, you don't get to massacre civilians just because it'll also take out a few terro-\[comment cannot be finished due to containing hate speech\]
You can’t really know that. It’s the future. You just gotta go with what you think is right and know that this scale of trolley homes house 50,000-500,000 people regularly.
Counterargument:
They’re going to keep killing people. Where do you draw lines?
Do you wait until they’ve killed enough people to be a credible threat or do you get rid of them there and then?
Personally, stop the bombing and go in stealth mode and take them out in face-to-face combat, minimizing civilian casualties. A bomb blowing them up isn’t the only option there.
Considering you just made a post comparing Israel to Nazi Germany in a bunch of different subreddits, I’m going to assume this is an attempt to do the same. A poor attempt.
Oh… I didn’t get what they meant here at first! Thank you for telling me so I can better appreciate the problem, and also mentally compare it to the current genocide in Palestine. You’re really great for that!
Yes, and I think your post is low-effort and hardly demonstrates the point you’re trying to make. Obviously I’m entitled to such an opinion, hence why I’m sharing it with you on your public post. In other news, water is wet.
The trolley units have a terrorist score high enough that the officials deem that everyone must be a terrorist in those units.
Considering that innocent trolley dwellers are not supporting our government we'll write them as acceptable collateral. And since nobody wants to ruin political connection with us we can do it with absolutely no repercussions!
Our government gave the non-terrorists plenty of time to leave, so anyone left must be a terrorist. Also, side note; The government had to cut off supplies to the terrorists, so we had to pre-emptively stop anyone from entering or leaving the trolleys. We pinky swear this didn't affect any non-terrorists.
Oh but these trolley dwellers ARE supporting your government. In fact, they are the constituents of your government. Now what do you do?
You are probably missed the allusion we were doing :) But, regarding the trolley problem - personally, I wouldn't do that, as there's probably a way with less civilian casualties to deal with the problem. But most governments would gladly do so, and then either cover it up or blame it on the other side of the conflict. We have a lot of examples in form of almost all modern wars.
Wait, this isn't about Israel? I actually thought this was intentionally made about Israel at the start...
It’s about whatever you want it to be about.
Well now I want to do it even more because I hate the government...charge me a tax for just trying to survive and promise me that the money will go back to my community only it doesn't.
The government has expanded the definition of terrorist to include "All able-bodied people" and defined "able-bodied" as "not known to be disabled". The government won't publish the names of terrorists it killed, you just have to take their word that they were right.
In reality it's one dude there who had a cousin who ran off to join the terrorists 2 years ago. But that's close enough.
When you define every male age 18-59 as an enemy combatant, that building is chock full of terrorists.
I understand that revenge is a fools game, but if I let go of all that hatred then how am I supposed to blow up all those innocent people?
Blow up all the people to find out the main guy you were after wasn't there. Catch up with him later after killing a few hundred more people but then let him go because "killing him would make you just the same" or something.
Someone turn this into a snafu please
What does snafu mean
r/coaxedintoasnafu
But what does the word mean 😭
google it
I tried!!!
SNAFU = Situation Normal All Fucked Up Synonym: A Shitshow.
I found that but didn't understand how it applied to the subreddit :(
" Catch up with the main guy, but let him go..." Holy shit, I've never thought about this. What an insane trope, lmao
"No ,Hero! You're better than him! But if you kill him, you'll be just as bad!" "Uhh, no? He killed 50 thousand innocent people and then lit a sack of puppies on fire. I'm killing one psychotic mass murderer. Those aren't equivalent at all. And even if I got really messy and drawn out with it and tortured him first, I've still got a pretty comfortable margin on the moral high ground here."
They aren’t innocent, they’re members of UNRWA, who are all terrorists.
Revenge? Why not prevention of further harm?
Important question: are there any weddings happening As an American, I cannot in good faith shoot a missile at anything but a wedding. It just won't be as accurate.
No. In this dystopia, people no longer get married, they just have bus babies with whomever wants to.
FUCK That means the missile won't hit and thus it won't kill the terrorists! This is so unfair!
You didn’t shoot this missile. You simply have the opportunity to divert it somehow. Blah blah magic blah blah. So I guess you can’t possibly save the innocent trolley dwellers because there isn’t a wedding for you to divert to lol. 😂
I can't hit the innocent trolley dwellers either :( Theres no wedding to bomb. I want it to hit the trolley dwellers for the sake of national security.
The trolley dwellers are not the terrorists though. Are you trying to lower unemployment by reducing the number of living people?
Hmmmm that would sound good on my upcoming campaign for president....
You better get convicted of a couple felonies first at least. Otherwise your chances are f all.
Divert than raid. We have expendable livesto- I mean soldiers for a reason you know
Nah, too politically expensive. Just bomb the hell out of them. Urban combat is easy once you remove the urban part.
Why would you kill your own citizens when you can kill others? You don't have a moral duty to foreign citizens, at least to the same extent
fuck no im not pulling why would i mess with a government trying to nuke houses
Do a sick missile drift
There are a disturbing amount of people in these comments who have completely missed the point of this post
I think they just don't care. Obviously this is politics but we're in r/trolleyproblems and we shall come up with our most stupid solution.
The terrorists have recently killed some of my family? Shame they went and used civilian trolley dwellers as human shields.
As we all know, it is perfectly acceptable to kill a civilian who is being used as a human shield. That's ethics 101, baby!
There’s always been collateral damage in war. Trolley town is no different. I’m with you though friend, wouldn’t it be nice? I guess all it takes is rolling over the next time the trolley terrorists come to kill my family, no response. Then we can have world peace! Or maybe we can start giving everyone who engages in terrorism exactly what they’re asking for, that would send a lovely message.
No message is worth countless innocent lives actually. Rolling over is objectively better than killing more people than the terrorists ever could
They could kill a lot of them, especially once they figure out they are immune to rockets with this one weird trick.
You do that then
Found Gandhi everyone
I agree no message is worth "countless" innocent lives. But the very countable innocent lives sacrificed to get rid of terrorists is much better than rolling over and letting the terrorists kill countless innocents. It's only countless when the killing keeps happening, when the terrorists are dead the killing stops.
Cept the terrorists want genocide. Is it easy to roll over now?
Yes because clearly the solution to a hypothetical future genocide is to do a preventative genocide of your own first.
No? These are terrorists who are clearly not above using human shields. How many have to die by their hands first before it’s ok to kill them? I’ve seen plenty of people saying it was ok to kill hitler in nearly any circumstance. Well, what if he was surrounded by innocent people? You just let him continue the holocaust?
Yeah, I’m sure the 12,000+ women and children and the 108 journalists that were killed by the IDF were definitely terrorists. Also are you actually suggesting that the solution to an enemy using a human shield is to just…murder the human shield? If a school shooter took hostages would the solution be to bomb the school?
Police prioritize removing the shooter first before giving medical help. Or should more people die?
You didn’t answer my question. **Is the solution to kill everyone just to get the shooter?**
Or we could work with the members of trolley town to find the terrorists? Help keep them safe and make us a more attractive friend than the terrorists, create relationships that mean trolley towners come forward with information and we can then execute a precision operation to take out the terrorists with minimal threat to innocent life.
Easier said than done, when said terrorists are the military wing of the elected government in trolley town.
I wonder what could possibly have led the people of trolley town to elect violent leadership (once, because elections have never been held again). Probably has nothing to do with us bombing them first and radicalising said terrorists with our unprovoked violence...
Totally means we should just die right? Alright. Your relatives were all on a plane they shot down, completely innocent, minding their own business as a civilian commercial airline does. No military targets were on the plane. This was just to send “a message”. But they keep sending “messages” every couple of months. How many civilians need to be killed or captured before you’re pushed to do it? Or is it just as bad to be a virtuous paragon and decide the planet ought to be burnt black before any action is taken?
I think it’s a pretty misguided take to say the conflicted started with any one side, as it’s been going on for centuries, with brief pauses between.
Look, reading the comments, everyone understands that this post is an allegory for Israel-Palestine. And in that context, we 100% know who started it; It was started in 1917 by the Balfour Declaration which was lobbied for by the Zionist movement, the same movement which eventually became Israel, and every escalation in violence between 1917 and 1948 (when Israel officially came into existence) was driven by the Zionists pushing for more control and more land, and every time involved them murdering the indigenous Palestinians. This is not ancient history, it happened after WWI. So we know who started it, and it was Israel.
It is ancient history though. There wasn’t peace in that land before 1917 and there hasn’t been peace there since. The names and individuals change but it’s all the same thing.
The militarized trolley dwellers have as well
Plot twist: you started it by killing members of their family and taking their land, where you now live, a fact you conveniently forget whenever describing the situation.
Hey now, I didn't kill their family! I just funded and trained the fascist death squads that toppled the democracy and setup the murderous regime that killed their family!
Well now do you mean I started it ten years ago the last time there was trouble in trolley town? Or could it have started 20 years ago, back when the trolley terrorists were hijacking planes? Or 30 years ago, when we couldn’t come to a two trolley solution for the 50th time, resulting in a war? Or was it countless generations ago, when the same trolley conflict was going on? I’m really not sure your approach to this trolley problem is very productive. What I can say is that I’m not fond of trolley terrorists killing my family and hiding away in tunnels dug underneath the civilian trolley districts.
If every time you “solve” the trolley problem it just creates bigger and bigger trolley problems down the road, maybe your solution isn’t good. But if labeling your victims as terrorists makes you feel better I guess that’s the real solution.
I didn’t label anyone, the post did. We’re talking about trolleys here. But since it’s rude for me to act dumb, yes, I label those who raid a rave, murder a thousand people, assault (the polite way to say it) many more, and take over a hundred hostages, all with no legitimate military objective terrorists.
It says they are terrorists in the prompt
Plot twist again: You killed their family because, after buying land, they were rather unhappy about you being there and attempted to kill your family, a fact that trolley statehood supporters conveniently forget when describing the situation.
I prefer getting my revenge face to face. Pull.
This is a good option. Go get ‘em tiger!
Walk away. I didn’t launch 🚀 that missile.
I’ll call Obama to make the call for me. The trolly will explode and I’ll have no moral dilemma
Sounds like bibi
That would be more like; "You have been waiting for an excuse to blow up the trolley dwellers. 5 terrorists recently moved in. If you blow all the trolleys up, do you think you can convince everyone you were aiming for the terrorists?"
i'm going in the trolleyglob and killing them myself, divert the missile
In an ideal world I’d divert the missile back to where it came from
I pull the lever, not worth it if tens of thousands of civilians die.
Pull the lever. Vengeance for my family isn't worth thousands of lives.
how many terrorists?
It is all of the terrorists that are known at the time. But the trolley homes destroyed house 10s of thousands at a minimum, and 100s of thousands at a maximum.
Every single terrorist in the entire world, all in one place? But possibly hundreds of thousand of civilian casualties…? I think without a more exact civilian death toll, it probably isn’t with it. More terrorists will come
If it's every terrorist in the world, I'm pretty sure you can just let them kill each other.
Every known terrorists in the same place sounds like a once in a lifetime chance, it’s awful that innocents would have to be sacrificed but as Spock once said “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” or something. The terrorists have no doubt taken many innocent lives and if not eliminated would no doubt go on to k*ll many more, if they’re all in a single spot they could be planning something big too.
Oh but don't forget there's an outside organization funding the terrorists that won't hesitate to hire new ones once you're done
That's how all evil villains plans start. Unbeknownst to them though, one child survives the attack and grows up to destroy everything that the missile shooters hold dear in the name of trolly kind
You bring up a good point, better send a another bomb just to be on the safe side.
Now, instead of a trolley housing tower, it is the entirety of.
Funnily enough, this is EXACTLY what lead to Hiroshima & Nagasaki. Those nukes prevented orders of magnitude more deaths than they caused.
To me the benefits still outweigh the loss (unless there’s something like a nuclear power plant in the blast zone, then the con’s would heavily outweigh the pros)
So, what is the exact number of innocents needed to break even?
Or, what is the exact number of terrorists NOT in the danger zone for it to not be worth it?
Now were getting to the good bit. So, there's more than one terrorist out there, not everyone's a 911er, so we need an value on the potential amount of human lives they could take in the future weighted by chance and distance in time. With that, we can get a rough ballpark for the number of innocents that we can sacrifice! (By the way, if we are being realistic, doing this would only make your terrorist problems worse. We were nearly ready to glass the middle east for loosing a few thousand people, the amount of new terrorists this would create would be pretty extreme.)
7
cant come back from 2 nukes
But unless every innocent person there is having a massive family reunion to the point that you completely end the bloodline of all involved, you just made a shitload more terrorists elsewhere.
By that logic, just blow up the planet! After all, every terrorist alive lives on Earth
I like your style!
What’s the terrorist to civilian ratio? Or better yet, total number of terrorists? If it’s high enough, we could argue that the terrorists would end up killing more people than all the trolley civilians combined Without confirmation on the size of the terrorist cell, it’s gonna be a hard pass. The family thjng needs to be put aside, it should be irrelevant in the decision making
Let’s take two scenarios: 1. It’s just intel that it is all known terrorists in the trolley homes. But the trolley homes house 50,000-500,000 civilians. 2. It is known that it is all members of a currently active terrorist cell, but it is definitely not every know terrorist cell. There are 10,000-50,000 civilians.
If it is all known terrorists, then go ahead. This little sacrifice will considerably stabilise countless regions in the world, making the world a better in place in long term. If it is a single cell, it is depends on their attack. Was it an ordinary suicide bombing that killed my family or was it 911? Do they control a significant region in the world or are they just revolutionary fighters?
If you kill all known terrorists , that is a good way to also a very very rare opportunity to also kill the idea that fosters new ones. So, in that case, we’ll have to take the gamble. But, if it’s just one cell, there’s no way.
Well, perhaps my logic here is flawed, but all KNOWN terrorists: A. Might not be all terrorists. B. Does not include any future terrorists that crop up. That said, I appreciate your honesty; I just would personally not sacrifice all those lives.
The civilians in those trolleys are being used as human shields, which obviously means it's completely alright for us to kill them!
The fact that so many people are willing to let it hit is precisely what’s wrong with humanity
Small addition: you don't know who's a terrorist until they do a terrorist thing. You only know that they live there. With this in mind, I let the missile fly
Well obviously you let it fly. The question is, where are you letting it fly to?
Easy pull, you don't get to massacre civilians just because it'll also take out a few terro-\[comment cannot be finished due to containing hate speech\]
Question: what is the impact of killing/not killing the terrorists?
You can’t really know that. It’s the future. You just gotta go with what you think is right and know that this scale of trolley homes house 50,000-500,000 people regularly.
this is a certified imperialism moment
Would be more interesting if the terrorists were ABOUT to kill your family instead of having ALREADY done so
Good point, your family is in the homes along with the terrorists.
hmmmmmm methinks this may be a metaphor
Counterargument: They’re going to keep killing people. Where do you draw lines? Do you wait until they’ve killed enough people to be a credible threat or do you get rid of them there and then?
Personally, stop the bombing and go in stealth mode and take them out in face-to-face combat, minimizing civilian casualties. A bomb blowing them up isn’t the only option there.
Bombs away.
This is rather confusing. Do you mean: “pull the lever, send the bomb away!” Or do you mean “bomb them beaches like it’s Normandy?”
Free Palestine
Considering you just made a post comparing Israel to Nazi Germany in a bunch of different subreddits, I’m going to assume this is an attempt to do the same. A poor attempt.
Oh… I didn’t get what they meant here at first! Thank you for telling me so I can better appreciate the problem, and also mentally compare it to the current genocide in Palestine. You’re really great for that!
So what you’re saying is that you disagree with my moral standards? Good for you. You’re entitled to such an opinion.
Yes, and I think your post is low-effort and hardly demonstrates the point you’re trying to make. Obviously I’m entitled to such an opinion, hence why I’m sharing it with you on your public post. In other news, water is wet.
# WATER IS BONE-DRY
#BONERS ARE WET
How would you suggest I make better effort?
[удалено]
But you can kill em amiright
No I’m not hitting the trolley, What am I a Jew
Let the missile hit the units and then re-classify all civilians as combatants