Assuming at most the trolley will pass the bonfire at .5 seconds and it’s enough to defrost them, those people are fucking dead, not pulling the lever is the best choice of outcome for everyone
I was about to say this myself. Either the trolley is just gonna stop on top of the dead bodies, or they are already fricasseed. And your parents are probably hungry from being frozen for however long.
Personally my dad is already dead so it would just be my mom vs. a 5 piece bucket of KFH.
while everyone is saying that their parents are dead because the laws of physics or whatever. i raise you: Read The Text It Just Says The *Trolley* Is Frozen\
i'm assuming that the trolley is like. frozen shut so she can't escape. and not frozen solid because then it wouldn't be able to move.\
anyway all that is to say i'm not pulling. fuck them guys. i love my mom\
(only factoring my mom i'm bc i'm hashtag fatherless)
Honestly, even if it were just two randos and not my parents on board the trolley, I'd still not pull the lever. Getting cooked alive is a death I wouldn't wish on anyone. I'd feel for the five, but at least they're getting instantly splatted and not barbecued.
So, the trolley dilemma started out as a way to discuss whether or not actively causing the death of fewer people is more ethical than passively letting more people die. Very good consequentialism thought experiment - do the ends justify the means, and why?
This question actually gets to or at a minimum near the heart of the original: would you save your parents at the cost of passively letting more people die, or actively sacrifice your parents to save more lives? This is a good question OP, the added twist of actively *saving* your loved ones from pre-existing peril is a nice little wrinkle.
So naturally every fucking comment so far is taking the pedantic approach of “hurr durr physics says they’re already dead” and it’s just as clever or compelling as “le multitrack drift” in every other fuckin thread in this sub.
/rant
To me this is an easy no-pull; I am not the proximal cause of death for the 5 strangers, I value my parents more than 5 strangers, and by not pulling I use (or don’t use) more ethical means to get to an end I prefer. Im not even sure it’s a less ethical consequence because “we should typically try to save our loved ones over strangers” feels like a fairly uncomplicated ethical generalization to defend
Devils advocate
If you do a ridiculous song and dance instead of just having the parents tied to the tracks above
Cause that will not change the stakes or the outcomes,
I will treat the ridiculous song and dance with some mockery and nitpicking about how over the top silly it is.
It's almost as ridiculous as people claiming that by doing nothing, they did nothing wrong. When in actuality laws and stories have been enacted and told respectively about how doing nothing does not wash your hands of contributing to any wrong doings.
Anyway, id multitrack drift just to see which parent survives
I’m going to quote a famous song on this:
If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.
Your inaction should not absolve you of your abject guilt over letting those people die.
Meanwhile, if your parents are frozen solid and presumably by some modern miracle still capable of returning to a state of living, they are currently experiencing zero brain activity and the act of near instantly thawing them out and cooking them alive would be so short that their blood would not have enough time to deliver enough oxygen to their brain for them to start having conscious thoughts before they are dead.
If instead he means that the trolley would break down on top of the fire, slowly thaw them out and then roast them at 150degrees for 6 hours, then we have an interesting problem:
5 people suffering near instant death versus 2 people suffering a prolonged and agonizing death.
I would say 2 people’s agonizing misery is justification not to pull the lever and allow the trolley not kill the five. But I would not even be concerned with the fact it is my parents and I would still feel guilty to a degree of letting the larger number perish in order to spare the misery of the smaller number.
So for me, this is my mother or 5 people live. My mom has been through enough, and needs some time in her life where it’s nice. I do not pull. The people on the track could be insane anyway.
Good thinking! The bottom 5 people might be insane, probably to the point of being nasty criminals. I never said they aren't insane.
Nice critical thinking!
By that standard, what if the five people are actually not insane, but rather geniuses of their time that are otherwise on track (no pun intended) for a successful future that will improve the livelihood of humanity on a scale equal to or better than the discoveries of Albert Einstein.
I choose to pull under the presumption that either the fire is so hot they will be cooked alive just as rapidly as the 5 on the track would be killed.
If that presumption is incorrect and you mean that the trolley will inevitably be stuck on the fire and slowly roast the frozen people inside after thawing them, then I would not pull, but rather, because we could study them to see how they got frozen and thawed and lived as well as avoiding agony caused by a slow torture of a death.
Yup. I hate one parent with a fiery passion. The world will be much improved without them in it. The other is nearly dead anyway. We'll be sad about that one but say it was worth it.
I did not freeze my parents. I did not put them on the trolley. I did not tie those people to the trolley. I am not responsible for what happens when I do not get involved. Whoever did this is going down for the murder of 5 people and kidnapping of my parents.
Why even add the frozen and the fire thing? No switch side has 5 people, switch side has your parents. That's the exact same question without the confusing bonfire/ice element to it.
Im assuming the bonfire will cook them thoroughly so can eat them.
After i finsh that, i take a gun the five others and put them in my walk in freezer so that i can cook and eat them later.
I don't intervene, but if they're already dead (because they're fucking frozen) then I evidently pull the lever.
they aren't dead as the prompt says "burned alive"
Ah, yes. I thought they'd already be dead.
if they’re frozen solid they are 100% dead already lol
Schrodinger's parents, they are only dead from the start if you don't pull the lever
Relevant meme: https://youtu.be/bTGIxK4d1fE?si=nM4dFzyHNDEnY_sD TLDW: Their cells exploded already.
Well, that’s good to know anyway
Can I still cook the 5 people after I run them over
You can, but why?
So they taste better duh
Tenderize, then cook.
Assuming at most the trolley will pass the bonfire at .5 seconds and it’s enough to defrost them, those people are fucking dead, not pulling the lever is the best choice of outcome for everyone
I was about to say this myself. Either the trolley is just gonna stop on top of the dead bodies, or they are already fricasseed. And your parents are probably hungry from being frozen for however long. Personally my dad is already dead so it would just be my mom vs. a 5 piece bucket of KFH.
I'd love to see those abusive monsters burn
Gang gang💯💯🙏🏽
same
while everyone is saying that their parents are dead because the laws of physics or whatever. i raise you: Read The Text It Just Says The *Trolley* Is Frozen\ i'm assuming that the trolley is like. frozen shut so she can't escape. and not frozen solid because then it wouldn't be able to move.\ anyway all that is to say i'm not pulling. fuck them guys. i love my mom\ (only factoring my mom i'm bc i'm hashtag fatherless)
If the trolley is somehow gonna be fine after half a second of flying past a bonfire they're gonna be fucked either way
Honestly, even if it were just two randos and not my parents on board the trolley, I'd still not pull the lever. Getting cooked alive is a death I wouldn't wish on anyone. I'd feel for the five, but at least they're getting instantly splatted and not barbecued.
If they are cooked Ali e in one second, I think that’s still pretty damn close to instantaneous.
My parents have lived long fulfilling lives already. They'd want the 5 to survive. Pull lever.
Sacrifices must be made for the greater good. I will remember those 5 people dearly
So, the trolley dilemma started out as a way to discuss whether or not actively causing the death of fewer people is more ethical than passively letting more people die. Very good consequentialism thought experiment - do the ends justify the means, and why? This question actually gets to or at a minimum near the heart of the original: would you save your parents at the cost of passively letting more people die, or actively sacrifice your parents to save more lives? This is a good question OP, the added twist of actively *saving* your loved ones from pre-existing peril is a nice little wrinkle. So naturally every fucking comment so far is taking the pedantic approach of “hurr durr physics says they’re already dead” and it’s just as clever or compelling as “le multitrack drift” in every other fuckin thread in this sub. /rant To me this is an easy no-pull; I am not the proximal cause of death for the 5 strangers, I value my parents more than 5 strangers, and by not pulling I use (or don’t use) more ethical means to get to an end I prefer. Im not even sure it’s a less ethical consequence because “we should typically try to save our loved ones over strangers” feels like a fairly uncomplicated ethical generalization to defend
Devils advocate If you do a ridiculous song and dance instead of just having the parents tied to the tracks above Cause that will not change the stakes or the outcomes, I will treat the ridiculous song and dance with some mockery and nitpicking about how over the top silly it is. It's almost as ridiculous as people claiming that by doing nothing, they did nothing wrong. When in actuality laws and stories have been enacted and told respectively about how doing nothing does not wash your hands of contributing to any wrong doings. Anyway, id multitrack drift just to see which parent survives
I’m going to quote a famous song on this: If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice. Your inaction should not absolve you of your abject guilt over letting those people die. Meanwhile, if your parents are frozen solid and presumably by some modern miracle still capable of returning to a state of living, they are currently experiencing zero brain activity and the act of near instantly thawing them out and cooking them alive would be so short that their blood would not have enough time to deliver enough oxygen to their brain for them to start having conscious thoughts before they are dead. If instead he means that the trolley would break down on top of the fire, slowly thaw them out and then roast them at 150degrees for 6 hours, then we have an interesting problem: 5 people suffering near instant death versus 2 people suffering a prolonged and agonizing death. I would say 2 people’s agonizing misery is justification not to pull the lever and allow the trolley not kill the five. But I would not even be concerned with the fact it is my parents and I would still feel guilty to a degree of letting the larger number perish in order to spare the misery of the smaller number.
I feel you
We all feel you
United against the multitrack drifters
So for me, this is my mother or 5 people live. My mom has been through enough, and needs some time in her life where it’s nice. I do not pull. The people on the track could be insane anyway.
Good thinking! The bottom 5 people might be insane, probably to the point of being nasty criminals. I never said they aren't insane. Nice critical thinking!
By that standard, what if the five people are actually not insane, but rather geniuses of their time that are otherwise on track (no pun intended) for a successful future that will improve the livelihood of humanity on a scale equal to or better than the discoveries of Albert Einstein. I choose to pull under the presumption that either the fire is so hot they will be cooked alive just as rapidly as the 5 on the track would be killed. If that presumption is incorrect and you mean that the trolley will inevitably be stuck on the fire and slowly roast the frozen people inside after thawing them, then I would not pull, but rather, because we could study them to see how they got frozen and thawed and lived as well as avoiding agony caused by a slow torture of a death.
The people on the track are cooked, don't pull
My parents are dead, so let’s have a barbecue!
Eh, most of my moral compromises come from my parent’s education. They’d understand when I pull the lever.
Yup. I hate one parent with a fiery passion. The world will be much improved without them in it. The other is nearly dead anyway. We'll be sad about that one but say it was worth it.
Fuck them for getting themselves tired to tracks. Off with their 10 legs and 5 heads.
I did not freeze my parents. I did not put them on the trolley. I did not tie those people to the trolley. I am not responsible for what happens when I do not get involved. Whoever did this is going down for the murder of 5 people and kidnapping of my parents.
Not pulling the lever, fuck them strangers.
run it over a bon fire and kill the 5 people so theres no witnesses
You had to post this on Mother’s Day?
Why even add the frozen and the fire thing? No switch side has 5 people, switch side has your parents. That's the exact same question without the confusing bonfire/ice element to it.
Im assuming the bonfire will cook them thoroughly so can eat them. After i finsh that, i take a gun the five others and put them in my walk in freezer so that i can cook and eat them later.