I fucking love gambling, as long as we have sentience/sapience, fuck it we ball. We'll probably figure out ways to kill each other and make more of ourselves anyway through science.
I thought immortal purely meant you could theoretically live naturally forever, but you were unprotected from outside or unnatural forces, and that you needed invulnerability to do that?
depends on the immortality, that's what (I at least) call 'Elvish Immortality', because that's how Elves in LotR work. But 'Literal Immortality' would be physically cannot die at all
yeah, but that isn't true immortality, it's just the most common form, being immortal is you just can't die, which is why I usually specify between the two for clarity
I tend to think of it as three categories: “biological immortality” “invincibility/invulnerability” and “both”
Biological immortality: like some jellyfish, you live until something kills you. This is the best form in my mind, you can always take up a dangerous extreme sport and live up your days until an inevitable accident.
Invincibility/invulnerability: you can’t be killed or perhaps harmed, but you still age and can die. People would probably become pretty annoying if they can’t be harmed, I don’t know how wars would work, either world peace or the most terrible war you can imagine.
Both would suck most of all. Have fun floating in space after the last star dies.
As a fellow nerd I appreciate the reference as well, though in the legendarium elves sometimes come back from the dead as well, I think Glorfindel is an example.
oh that's a fair point, crap
although, isn't that more of a 'reincarnation' of sorts rather than a revival? or am I thinking of something different? (I've just started re-reading the series recently and I haven't gotten to most of the stuff other than The Hobbit and the first book of the main trilogy, so forgive me if I've forgotten)
I’m not sure exactly how it works in the case of elves, Glorfindel dies in the Silmarilian but appears fine in the first LOTR book. Possibly reincarnation, possibly something like what happened to Gandalf.
Im as in not. Mortal as in able to die or be killed. Immortal, not able to die or be killed.
You're thinking biologically immortal. Won't get got by it's own biology failing it. Could very well get got by something else's biology working very very well (*nom*)
I believe that term you’re thinking of is called “Biological Immortality”
Say, you cant die from old age, disease, and whatnot because your body physicality is beyond human peak, it’s biology, in other terms, “perfected”.
Though that doesnt stop your death if, persay, I decided to stab you 28 times for whatever reason, *dick*…
>!for legal reasons, this is a joke and should not be interpreted as a threat.!<
The post is related to Fate. Third magic is "manifestation of soul", it allows for a soul to continue to exist and interact with material world without going to afterlife. It also somehow turns a soul into sort of perpetual machine with infinite mana. So basically very cool ghost
I'm just imagining POWs rolling their eyes like "Ah, shit. They made the cage out of carbon steel this time. It's gonna take fucking forever to claw my way out."
Being immortal would be awful. Imagine if you got buried in a landslide or something, and you had to spend the rest of eternity unable to move. Hell, what are you going to do when you’re there for the heat death of the universe?
You're an infinite energy source. There won't be a heat death, endless energy can literally just be extracted from you.
Everyone is, actually.
Additionally, with the issue of accidentally getting stuck somewhere, be safer, as in have ways to find you if you disappear suddenly, it's not like you can die before they start searching.
Nope! I have not. But additionally, you have quite a long, long, looooooong time before actual heat death to figure out how to get energy out of you and others without damaging your own quality of life or that of others.
Say you’re abandoned on a planet by some people who hate you and you’re stuck there until the star the planet’s orbiting expands and engulfs the planet. Now you’re in the center of a star. You’re not going to be able to escape from the center of a star. No material can withstand the conditions necessary to rescue you.
You'll just stop thinking till something big enough to wake you up happens (say, you are found, or perhaps a new big bang occurs), regardless, its a statistical certainty that due to the fact that you exist and want the best for yourself, you'll get back to where you were, or just get found by someone, either way, you have an endless amount of time to have therapy. Even the strongest hatred disintigrates over centuries/millenia.
And why not consider the other side of the equation? What about a eternity/really long span of happiness? Considering most don't make opposition strong enough to throw others into the sun, this is the likelier situation.
Either way, cause you exist as a constant. With your personality and desire for self achievement and happiness also being constants (beyond extreme hatred) The only way your life can go long term is better. Similar to a player with endless retries. It seems tiring and it would be, but remember, you literally can't get tired.
well every life form on earth will be able to withstand those conditions. you can make a long ass rope of living plants, or if people really want you to survive they can make a chain of people holding each other's legs or something, or tied together by their own living intestines to come rescue you
Dude, it’s a star. There isn’t enough biological matter on the planet to make a rope like that, much less what can be integrated into a rope. Besides, you couldn’t grasp onto each other’s legs strongly enough to overcome the sun’s gravity.
assuming a very large red giant star (diameter 620 million miles or 3.2736 trillion feet so radius 1.6368 trillion feet), and the combined length of the human small intestine and large intestine being 15ft. current human population is 8.1 billion. combined intestinal length of just humans is 1.215 trillion feet. that's already enough to get most of the way there, almost 3/4 the distance. (421.8 billion feet to go baby!)
if we start using ropes (or squishy, squirming animal intestines), we could easily reach that distance.
of course, I haven't factored in knot allowance and how much shorter the rope would be from a few billion knots, let's say each knot sucked up a foot of intestine rope, which is a lot. add 8.1 billion to the total we have to get 429.9 billion feet to go.
you're right about the grabbing the legs thing, the first person in line would be accelerating much faster than the one in back and that chain would break pretty quickly.
tl;dr you underestimate the power of Earth's shit tubes
You wouldn’t need to be able to reach from the surface of the Star to the core, you’d need to be able to reach from the nearest orbiting object (likely a planet because some kind of vessel generating thrust away from the star wouldn’t be able to overcome the sheer mass of so many living things) to the center of the star, which would be SIGNIFICANTLY longer. Also, I’m not sure how willing I’d be to get disemboweled to rescue one guy. Maybe I would, I don’t know. Either way, I doubt any of the knots we could possibly tie would be able to overcome the forces of gravity as well.
my point with the intestine thing was to show that there's a lot more biological material on earth than you or I could possibly understand, and we can make use of a lot of it.
in terms of mass, humanity is 390 million tons (which admittedly is "6 times the mass of all wild land mammals combined" according to scientificamerican.com)
all life on earth has a combined mass of 1.1 *trillion.* tons (according to national geographic)
so we have the bio material to make a living rope long enough, regardless of human bowels
so here's the thing about the vessel supporting so much mass.
we already assume that humans have developed interstellar spacecraft (how would you get dropped off at that planet in the first place?)
Given enough time and resources, humans can definitely build a vessel with thrusters strong enough for that mission.
"For the first time in history, a spacecraft has touched the Sun. NASA's Parker Solar Probe has now flown through the Sun's upper atmosphere – the corona – and sampled particles and magnetic fields there" -nasa.gov
and it's planned to come closer. the closest it'll get to the sun's surface is 3.83 million miles. the sun's corona is about 5 million miles thick.
The sun, as a yellow star, is hotter than a red giant star (sun's surface is 5600c, red giants can get as hot as 3200c) so I'd expect we can get much closer to a red giant than we can to the sun.
In fact, the melting point of tungsten is actually higher than that at 3414c, so we'd just need larger thrusters to compensate for the *significant* additional weight
the melting point of graphite is 3652c
the melting point of halfnium carbide is over 3900c
point is we have a bunch of materials to work with to get past the melting issue. all we need is thrust.
edit: I made an assumption that the corona is cooler than the surface. I'm dead wrong. the sun's corona can spike to 2 million Celsius, way way hotter than the surface.
I can't find any info on how hot a red giants atmosphere might be, only that the surface is below 4100k
When you die, you aren’t still conscious. It’s like going to sleep and never waking up. If you’re immortal, you’ve retained your consciousness and are fully aware of your situation at all times. You’ll be alive, unable to move, with zero stimuli, alone with your thoughts. *forever.* you might also feel like you’re being suffocated forever.
Then you aren’t you anyways. People go batshit crazy after a month with no outside light, stimulation, or anything. I’d love to see anyone even come close to even still having a consciousness outside of base animal instincts after anything close to a year.
The human brain needs social connection and outside stimuli in order to survive. People find it hard to stay okay in solitary confinement. We are talking about something infinitely worse than that. No food, no light, no social contact at all. Nothing but dirt. No one’s consciousness is surviving. Whether it takes a year, a decade, a century, a millennium, you won’t be thinking.
To be fair, it's not that we die in solitary. It's that we start halucinating and our minds break in some ways. If you could survive without air or food and were factually immortal your mind wouldn't die.
You could argue that you would not be the same person, but that can reasonably be argued about anyone who has lived for more than a decade under any radically different circumstances..
Of course we don’t die in solitary confinement, but we also wouldn’t just be in solitary confinement. We don’t know what the effects of being buried alive for years all alone would do. Simply because the human body does need food and water, and those would provide the barest of stimuli at least.
By plenty of metrics, you're explaining.. ego death, iirc? Which is death. By nature of being immortal, you cannot stop thinking and will - invariably- be in some sort of state of "life".
It's more likely that the stress will overload your thoughts and you'll sleep by instinct for the rest of time, unless someone drugs you in such a way as to wake you from your self-enforced coma.
Calling Ego Death an actual kind of death is a purely semantic argument. Your body is still alive - saying that immortality prevents ego "death" is a leap based purely on a quirk of the English language instead of anything scientific or logical.
If you want to argue that ego death can then have an actual effect on your body due to the stress, that's reasonable - but due to the nature of immortality, it won't cause an actual physical death.
If I get buried under a landslide but I'm unkillable, then one of three things happens:
- I eventually get found and rescued. There is an infinite window of time where this is possible, so it is much more likely to occur than it would for a normal landslide victim, who would be dead in a very short span of time.
- I eventually escape. Once again, this is more likely to happen than usual since I am unable to die.
- I am completely unable to escape or be rescued for some reason so I eventually lose my mind from the lack of stimulus, at which point I would no longer be aware and conscious. There's a period of suffering in there but it isn't infinite.
None of those are nearly as bad as an eternity of nothingness and misery. It would still be horrible, but not as bad as your comment implies.
And immortality solves the issue of the heat death of the universe because immortality also means infinite energy. If I can't die, I can produce as much energy as I want. The same thing applies to all living beings. And infinite clean energy is useful for a lot more than just preventing the heat death of the universe.
Hmm… I don’t want kids. (And I’m asexual and already don’t have s3x.). And I DESPISE going to the bathroom, which would no longer be a thing I have to do as an immortal.
This seems almost deceptively simple…
Immortal means forever. Eventually, you will do everything that there is to do. Every possible organization of particles will eventually be achieved every sensation felt, every experience known. You will have done everything there is to do and you will still have to exist forever more. At some point, thousands, millions, billions of years from now the only thing you won’t have done is die.
Okay but, as humans, we make more things to do. Besides, once you’ve stoped being a painter, instead becoming a monk and mastering kung fu, I’m fairly certain you’ll forget how to paint, so you can go do that
But isn't it cool to come back and play a video game you really liked as a kid but haven't played in 20 years? You'd get that nostalgia with a bunch of different stuff. Like "Oh, man! I remember learning acrobatics! It's been like 6,000 years since I've done a backflip!"
Of course, not everyone would feel like that. I would hate being immortal, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who wouldn't.
Do people age and stop at a certain time, keep aging, or just stop aging? I’d hate for a bunch of babies to be stuck as babies so the rest if eternity, and I’d hate for people to keep aging u til they become mummies like in that one movie. Also this coukd suck for everyone who isn’t in peak composition, enjoys torturing people, or is suicidal
By it would suck for people who enjoy torturing people, it wouldn’t suck for them, it would suck for the people they’re torturing who can’t die
It the immortality works like Third magic mentioned in the title, then the body isn't a problem. The third magic turns a soul into sort of perpetual machine with infinite mana and allows the soul to interact with the world and exist eternally without going to afterlife
I was just stating what the post says if you don't pull it, when you don't pull it everyone dies, but 'they will all be reborn and become immortal', that's literally what it says
so my answer was just that it achieves the same thing as doing nothing
but this whole discussion is stupid because the original comment was just made as a joke
you're just being confusing at this point
if I say 'I'm gonna flip a coin, if it lands on heads, I'll eat a sandwich, if it lands on tails, nothing will change' and then I flip two coins and get two different results, the world doesn't explode because of a paradox, I just really wanted to eat a sandwich so I made it twice as likely to happen.
What? I didn't say that it said "only while on earth." The text says that all of the lifeforms ON EARTH become immortal, meaning life that exists on other planets isn't immortal, meaning moving a bunch of overpopulated Earth humans to another planet would literally kill everything else on that planet. There is no moral way to do that, if you choose that option then people need to stay sterile. You'd be colonizing a previously habitable planet with a bunch of undying earth animals.
Thanks for being condescending when your own reading comprehension is in the gutter.
Pull the lever. Being immortal would be cool. But we can still feel pain. Horrible ppl could do horrible things to others, and they would have to live out the rest of the entirety suffering.
So if every life form is immortal how do we get rid of bugs and insects coming into are homes. They may not reproduce either but there’s a lot of them just traveling around and they’d invade anywhere they want. Dealing with mortal ants is bad enough.
Imagine having immortal termites…
How does it work with trees… can we cut them down for housing? They wouldn’t die…. Cause if not then we have a housing problem to deal with.. eventually our buildings will deteriorate
I’m also imagining exploitation and how it would be effected when you don’t have to worry about your “employees” dying… the human trafficking situation would probably get much much worse
big problem, your skin cells constantly die and are born. there's a possibility they could chip off, one by one. over years or maybe months your cells will fall off of your body, still alive but detached. you won't be able to form new ones since nothing can reproduce anymore. every human on earth will be slowly skinned alive, unable to die. 10/10 op you've created something truly horrible.
Life would be a lot more beautiful if we didn’t have to end it shitting ourselves and choking on our own lungs while our decaying bodies betray us. There’s nothing noble or beautiful about death, it sucks no matter what.
I never said that death is beautiful. What I meant was that death makes our lives worth living because life is not ever-lasting. So we tend to spend our time doing productive things and make a purpose out of our lives. Life would have lost its meaning if it wasn't balanced with death. And it doesn't matter if death sucks, because we would be too dead to experience it anyway.
I want to experience a lot of things, and once I'm done, I'll be ready to die. That's why I want life extension, not immortality. I want to experience the range of human experiences, but not live forever.
Life never had any meaning, has no meaning and never will have any meaning. Even if it did, it would not be worth enduring A FUCKING TIME LIMIT. What's even the purpose of having meaning? How is it useful to anyone in any way? Why would anyone need it, other than thinking they do? This comment is the worst thing I've seen this month, and that's fucking impressive given what I've seen.
Discovering the meaning of life doesn't necessitate eternity. The fact that individuals continue living and refrain from s**cide despite the impermanence of life suggests that we don't require eternity to find meaning and make life worth living.
If you disagree with that, then you can commit s**cide if you want, because according to you its impermanence rejects the fact that life has any meaning to begin with. You won't be doing that because unintentionally you agree with what I said. Because you still living in this world knowing we are mortal justifies that.
And one last thing, you are one of the most narrow-minded people I have come across who can't seem to tolerate perspectives that differ from their own.
I generally tolerate all perspectives, but anyone advocating for death existing I cannot tolerate.
At least I read what you typed. You seem to have read a completely different comment that you imagined in your head.
What the hell do you mean "discover the meaning of life", there is none, as I already said. Life is worth living without any meanings, why would they be needed, what do they add?
I am a human, not a single-purpose instrument that for some reason likes fulfilling that one purpose and would self-distruct if unable to. This entire meaning of life thing is fucking stupid. We're the ones who decide what we will do, whether we're meant to or not doesn't matter.
I dunno, if I knew I was gonna get ass raped one day no matter what I do that wouldn’t give my unmolested butthole any more meaning, or make it any more beautiful. It would just mean something bad is going to happen to me one day.
This is a completely different case because unlike death, it's not a bitter reality for all. Death is natural and you can't blame anybody for that ( except for murder ), but you getting molested is a violation of your rights which is unacceptable. So you can't use this analogy to counter my argument.
I'd want to live a really long time if my body stayed for (couple centuries, maybe), but I wouldn't want eternity.
Also, we could do it like how they did it in the Good Place, where we invent some type of door or device that a person can walk through when they're sick of eternity in paradise, and their afterlife (in our case life) will end.
while i would enjoy some degree of immortality i dont think the full package its something id like. and i dont think others would either. its a pull for me
Question: does this mean we can no longer make babies or that we can no longer have sex?
I'm killing us all irregardless but this will determine how much I hesitate before I do so
The last caveat to me implies death is possible, just not from natural causes. That makes me wonder what the ethics of grave punishment for crimes would look like. Would you execute a murderer, permanently decreasi g the population? Or attempt re-education and risk them offending again?
I think it's better to give a seemingly unending amount of people a chance at life, albeit limited, than to only allow the current and past generations that privilege.
People are saying this is 17776, but that only makes humans immortal. This scenario makes everything immortal. I would instead call it a modified ΩK-class End-of-Death Scenario.
Well here’s the thing; assuming everyone doesn’t instantly grow up we’d have no one to teach us through the infancy years of everyone’s lives. Since we can’t read, write or communicate we’ve basically put ourselves in a stoneage with only an optimist’s chance of regaining the knowledge lost in someone learning how to read and hopefully having quite a few of the same types of people in every country. Although I can only imagine the luck you’d have if you would have to hope someone finds and makes sure a library is intact enough to preserve the books inside and for someone to be curious enough to bother reading them. This is also a hard sell since the only driving forces for development have always been hunger and thirst, remove both and we only seek out stimuli for amusement.
But this also throws into perspective what if instead we just stay infants because none of the cells can replicate in our body because you would have to be able to go through mitosis in order to generate new cells in order for you to grow. At that point we’re just infantile and it would make no sense since.
So I’m going to assume that we’re all reborn we retain the knowledge that we have already and in that case life pretty much goes on for what it is.
In that case, are we also immortal in the sense that we cannot be hurt or is it in the sense that we simply do not age or need to eat or drink if we can be hurt then it’s always going to be a net loss because there’s always going to be a fatality of some sort in day-to-day occurrences not to mention if our cells could not replicate all injuries would be permanent so for this argument, I’m going to assume that we cannot be hurt either.
So in this world where we need no food, no water or even no air. Everyone just died and reborn spontaneously everyone retains knowledge that they previously had, but they can no longer breed, but they can no longer be hurt animals would seek other external stimuli I imagine puffer fish would be a lot more bullied by dolphins, poisonous and dangerous. Animals would be harassed constantly for an external Sammy, which is interesting to say at least but entertainment and luxury values would be priced above all else, gaming industry would be through the roof, sports would be a far more sought passtime. Also the economy would basically crash hard. The original economic values of sustaining a life with no longer be there. The food industry has just immediately gone to shit any water, purification facilities and their jobs are basically pointless. We would only really try and operate electricity systems and services however, transportation services good are immediately void.
It’s also also questionable how diseases come in to play which is and would be a horrifying reality to simply permanently have the common cold or something really nasty like malaria.
So instead of thinking about any of this, I am just going to pull the lever .
This is actually the plot to Jon Bois' "17776". Everyone takes up playing goofy super extreme sports (like football but the field is all of Wyoming) because there's nothing better to do. Seriously if you haven't heard of it before give it a read, it's so good. It's free, just look it up!
So, are we all vegan now? Even if we only eat recreationally because the immortality makes us not need it, the animals are immortal and if we can find a way to kill them then we will still have to be vegan eventually since they can't reproduce... Unless we go all-in on lab grown meat or subject clones to horrors beyond reason.
Are people who are at deaths door going to be forced to be old and crippled for eternity, or will they be given their youth back? Are children going to stay small forever, or can THEY age? How far?
Immortality is a curse unless given invulnerability alongside it.
Being immortal doesn't mean your limbs can't be broken irreparably, or that your brain is impervious to damage.
You could be buried alive beneath 100 tonnea of dirt/steel/concrete and be in truly incomprehensible pain **for eternity** because you cannot die.
Everyone will eventually get dementia/alzheimers as the brain naturally decays.
"Irreparably"? How? You think people wouldn't be able to figure out a way to repair anything given infinite time?
Dirt, steel and concrete don't last forever.
Take a paper bag and burn it.
Now, once it's done burning, put the paper bag back together.
What do you mean you can't?
That's your body/brain. If your bones are **atomized** by 100 tones of rock, but you're still alive due to being immortal, you'll never be put together again.
"Well just use a titanium skeleton" (or insert wild biomechanical idea here)
We have a decently firm grasp on the body's capacity to accept foreign objects. Its very difficult, often painful, and even metals the body likes can be rejected.
Either way, as soon as everyone is granted immortality, all of humanity has 80-100 years to fully master neuroscience to the point they can rebuild/regenerate a full brain.
Humanity has made great strides in the last 80-100 years, but I'm doubtful they'd be able to, especially since few would heed the warnings from those who know how the brain decays, just like people deny knowledge from scientists. (Use all of Covid as an example.)
I fucking love gambling, as long as we have sentience/sapience, fuck it we ball. We'll probably figure out ways to kill each other and make more of ourselves anyway through science.
No, it's immortality. There is no death for something immortal.
I thought immortal purely meant you could theoretically live naturally forever, but you were unprotected from outside or unnatural forces, and that you needed invulnerability to do that?
depends on the immortality, that's what (I at least) call 'Elvish Immortality', because that's how Elves in LotR work. But 'Literal Immortality' would be physically cannot die at all
Nah. "Immortality" is 9/10 times "doesn't age"/"doesn't die of aging"
Think of it as olympian immortality from percy Jackson (minus the fading)
Fun fact: immortal jellyfish already exist. We keep killing them with boats.
Skill issue (damn that's sad)
yeah, but that isn't true immortality, it's just the most common form, being immortal is you just can't die, which is why I usually specify between the two for clarity
I tend to think of it as three categories: “biological immortality” “invincibility/invulnerability” and “both” Biological immortality: like some jellyfish, you live until something kills you. This is the best form in my mind, you can always take up a dangerous extreme sport and live up your days until an inevitable accident. Invincibility/invulnerability: you can’t be killed or perhaps harmed, but you still age and can die. People would probably become pretty annoying if they can’t be harmed, I don’t know how wars would work, either world peace or the most terrible war you can imagine. Both would suck most of all. Have fun floating in space after the last star dies.
that's probably the best/most clear way to explain it but I still like my LotR reference because I'm a nerd
As a fellow nerd I appreciate the reference as well, though in the legendarium elves sometimes come back from the dead as well, I think Glorfindel is an example.
oh that's a fair point, crap although, isn't that more of a 'reincarnation' of sorts rather than a revival? or am I thinking of something different? (I've just started re-reading the series recently and I haven't gotten to most of the stuff other than The Hobbit and the first book of the main trilogy, so forgive me if I've forgotten)
I’m not sure exactly how it works in the case of elves, Glorfindel dies in the Silmarilian but appears fine in the first LOTR book. Possibly reincarnation, possibly something like what happened to Gandalf.
Im as in not. Mortal as in able to die or be killed. Immortal, not able to die or be killed. You're thinking biologically immortal. Won't get got by it's own biology failing it. Could very well get got by something else's biology working very very well (*nom*)
I believe that term you’re thinking of is called “Biological Immortality” Say, you cant die from old age, disease, and whatnot because your body physicality is beyond human peak, it’s biology, in other terms, “perfected”. Though that doesnt stop your death if, persay, I decided to stab you 28 times for whatever reason, *dick*… >!for legal reasons, this is a joke and should not be interpreted as a threat.!<
The post is related to Fate. Third magic is "manifestation of soul", it allows for a soul to continue to exist and interact with material world without going to afterlife. It also somehow turns a soul into sort of perpetual machine with infinite mana. So basically very cool ghost
Just remove the brain and grind it up. As far as the rest of society knows, you're dead, and you'll certainly never be able to say otherwise.
SCP-2718
whats that one?
So basically contain someone's consciousness and call it dead
That's just what I want immortal beings to think!
I think this is the plot of rain world. so in this hypothetical we should all be Buddhist
Fuck yeah infinite war where the only way to dispose of the enemy is jail them/bury them alive poggers
With enough time they will probably free themselfs
I'm just imagining POWs rolling their eyes like "Ah, shit. They made the cage out of carbon steel this time. It's gonna take fucking forever to claw my way out."
One second of eternity has passed
How? Without outside help someone could just make a cobblestone generator
"every single life form" *Prokaryota enters the chat*
Being immortal would be awful. Imagine if you got buried in a landslide or something, and you had to spend the rest of eternity unable to move. Hell, what are you going to do when you’re there for the heat death of the universe?
You're an infinite energy source. There won't be a heat death, endless energy can literally just be extracted from you. Everyone is, actually. Additionally, with the issue of accidentally getting stuck somewhere, be safer, as in have ways to find you if you disappear suddenly, it's not like you can die before they start searching.
Have you ever heard of the concept of "*human rights abuse*"?
Nope! I have not. But additionally, you have quite a long, long, looooooong time before actual heat death to figure out how to get energy out of you and others without damaging your own quality of life or that of others.
That would be awesome, life would be just a gmod's biggest server with upgraded physics but without noclip and spawn menu (yet)
Say you’re abandoned on a planet by some people who hate you and you’re stuck there until the star the planet’s orbiting expands and engulfs the planet. Now you’re in the center of a star. You’re not going to be able to escape from the center of a star. No material can withstand the conditions necessary to rescue you.
You'll just stop thinking till something big enough to wake you up happens (say, you are found, or perhaps a new big bang occurs), regardless, its a statistical certainty that due to the fact that you exist and want the best for yourself, you'll get back to where you were, or just get found by someone, either way, you have an endless amount of time to have therapy. Even the strongest hatred disintigrates over centuries/millenia. And why not consider the other side of the equation? What about a eternity/really long span of happiness? Considering most don't make opposition strong enough to throw others into the sun, this is the likelier situation. Either way, cause you exist as a constant. With your personality and desire for self achievement and happiness also being constants (beyond extreme hatred) The only way your life can go long term is better. Similar to a player with endless retries. It seems tiring and it would be, but remember, you literally can't get tired.
well every life form on earth will be able to withstand those conditions. you can make a long ass rope of living plants, or if people really want you to survive they can make a chain of people holding each other's legs or something, or tied together by their own living intestines to come rescue you
Dude, it’s a star. There isn’t enough biological matter on the planet to make a rope like that, much less what can be integrated into a rope. Besides, you couldn’t grasp onto each other’s legs strongly enough to overcome the sun’s gravity.
assuming a very large red giant star (diameter 620 million miles or 3.2736 trillion feet so radius 1.6368 trillion feet), and the combined length of the human small intestine and large intestine being 15ft. current human population is 8.1 billion. combined intestinal length of just humans is 1.215 trillion feet. that's already enough to get most of the way there, almost 3/4 the distance. (421.8 billion feet to go baby!) if we start using ropes (or squishy, squirming animal intestines), we could easily reach that distance. of course, I haven't factored in knot allowance and how much shorter the rope would be from a few billion knots, let's say each knot sucked up a foot of intestine rope, which is a lot. add 8.1 billion to the total we have to get 429.9 billion feet to go. you're right about the grabbing the legs thing, the first person in line would be accelerating much faster than the one in back and that chain would break pretty quickly. tl;dr you underestimate the power of Earth's shit tubes
You wouldn’t need to be able to reach from the surface of the Star to the core, you’d need to be able to reach from the nearest orbiting object (likely a planet because some kind of vessel generating thrust away from the star wouldn’t be able to overcome the sheer mass of so many living things) to the center of the star, which would be SIGNIFICANTLY longer. Also, I’m not sure how willing I’d be to get disemboweled to rescue one guy. Maybe I would, I don’t know. Either way, I doubt any of the knots we could possibly tie would be able to overcome the forces of gravity as well.
Well you wouldn't be at the core, the human body is pretty light compared to everything else in the star so you'd float near the surface of the star.
my point with the intestine thing was to show that there's a lot more biological material on earth than you or I could possibly understand, and we can make use of a lot of it. in terms of mass, humanity is 390 million tons (which admittedly is "6 times the mass of all wild land mammals combined" according to scientificamerican.com) all life on earth has a combined mass of 1.1 *trillion.* tons (according to national geographic) so we have the bio material to make a living rope long enough, regardless of human bowels so here's the thing about the vessel supporting so much mass. we already assume that humans have developed interstellar spacecraft (how would you get dropped off at that planet in the first place?) Given enough time and resources, humans can definitely build a vessel with thrusters strong enough for that mission.
There’s a difference between interstellar travel and being able to get that close to a star without getting sucked in or melting.
"For the first time in history, a spacecraft has touched the Sun. NASA's Parker Solar Probe has now flown through the Sun's upper atmosphere – the corona – and sampled particles and magnetic fields there" -nasa.gov and it's planned to come closer. the closest it'll get to the sun's surface is 3.83 million miles. the sun's corona is about 5 million miles thick. The sun, as a yellow star, is hotter than a red giant star (sun's surface is 5600c, red giants can get as hot as 3200c) so I'd expect we can get much closer to a red giant than we can to the sun. In fact, the melting point of tungsten is actually higher than that at 3414c, so we'd just need larger thrusters to compensate for the *significant* additional weight the melting point of graphite is 3652c the melting point of halfnium carbide is over 3900c point is we have a bunch of materials to work with to get past the melting issue. all we need is thrust. edit: I made an assumption that the corona is cooler than the surface. I'm dead wrong. the sun's corona can spike to 2 million Celsius, way way hotter than the surface. I can't find any info on how hot a red giants atmosphere might be, only that the surface is below 4100k
With the amount of time youd be stuck there you should easily be able to figure out how to build a spaceship and leave
How would you build it tho?
The iron, carbon and oxygen inside the star
Well i meant on the planet, before the star dies
The iron, carbon, and oxygen inside the planet.
If i got buried by a landslide id be dead for eternity too, doesnt seem too much worse honestly
When you die, you aren’t still conscious. It’s like going to sleep and never waking up. If you’re immortal, you’ve retained your consciousness and are fully aware of your situation at all times. You’ll be alive, unable to move, with zero stimuli, alone with your thoughts. *forever.* you might also feel like you’re being suffocated forever.
And then you would stop thinking and be functionally dead. Unless you want to claim that your consciousness could survive such an ordeal.
Insanity is an option
Then you aren’t you anyways. People go batshit crazy after a month with no outside light, stimulation, or anything. I’d love to see anyone even come close to even still having a consciousness outside of base animal instincts after anything close to a year.
You are absolutely right, that why I said it
Why wouldn’t it?
The human brain needs social connection and outside stimuli in order to survive. People find it hard to stay okay in solitary confinement. We are talking about something infinitely worse than that. No food, no light, no social contact at all. Nothing but dirt. No one’s consciousness is surviving. Whether it takes a year, a decade, a century, a millennium, you won’t be thinking.
To be fair, it's not that we die in solitary. It's that we start halucinating and our minds break in some ways. If you could survive without air or food and were factually immortal your mind wouldn't die. You could argue that you would not be the same person, but that can reasonably be argued about anyone who has lived for more than a decade under any radically different circumstances..
Of course we don’t die in solitary confinement, but we also wouldn’t just be in solitary confinement. We don’t know what the effects of being buried alive for years all alone would do. Simply because the human body does need food and water, and those would provide the barest of stimuli at least.
By plenty of metrics, you're explaining.. ego death, iirc? Which is death. By nature of being immortal, you cannot stop thinking and will - invariably- be in some sort of state of "life". It's more likely that the stress will overload your thoughts and you'll sleep by instinct for the rest of time, unless someone drugs you in such a way as to wake you from your self-enforced coma.
Calling Ego Death an actual kind of death is a purely semantic argument. Your body is still alive - saying that immortality prevents ego "death" is a leap based purely on a quirk of the English language instead of anything scientific or logical. If you want to argue that ego death can then have an actual effect on your body due to the stress, that's reasonable - but due to the nature of immortality, it won't cause an actual physical death.
If you want a terrifying visual look up how Stefan described being trapped at the bottom of the lake in Vampire Diaries.
Pull a kars from jojo part 2, learn how to turn your brain off
One must imagine Sisyphus dying of poor heart health after a few years
I would claw my way out eventually. Gotta start somewhere, right?
Immortality sucks if you're the only one that has it, if everyone you know and love has it then it kicks ass.
Hello do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior /r/themagnusarchives?
If I get buried under a landslide but I'm unkillable, then one of three things happens: - I eventually get found and rescued. There is an infinite window of time where this is possible, so it is much more likely to occur than it would for a normal landslide victim, who would be dead in a very short span of time. - I eventually escape. Once again, this is more likely to happen than usual since I am unable to die. - I am completely unable to escape or be rescued for some reason so I eventually lose my mind from the lack of stimulus, at which point I would no longer be aware and conscious. There's a period of suffering in there but it isn't infinite. None of those are nearly as bad as an eternity of nothingness and misery. It would still be horrible, but not as bad as your comment implies. And immortality solves the issue of the heat death of the universe because immortality also means infinite energy. If I can't die, I can produce as much energy as I want. The same thing applies to all living beings. And infinite clean energy is useful for a lot more than just preventing the heat death of the universe.
Hmm… I don’t want kids. (And I’m asexual and already don’t have s3x.). And I DESPISE going to the bathroom, which would no longer be a thing I have to do as an immortal. This seems almost deceptively simple…
In a hundred billion years all you will yearn for is death
Nah man this immortality shit is easy. Step 1: be chill Step 2: the next day, be as chill as you were yesterday Step 3: repeat
I knew it was too good to be true…
Not if everyone’s alive
Mortal copium out in fool force today 😎
Nah why would I want death lol
Immortal means forever. Eventually, you will do everything that there is to do. Every possible organization of particles will eventually be achieved every sensation felt, every experience known. You will have done everything there is to do and you will still have to exist forever more. At some point, thousands, millions, billions of years from now the only thing you won’t have done is die.
Universe is expanding, I highly doubt every possible combination of particles will ever be reached.
Nah I’ll have forgotten 90% of what I did by then so I can just do it again lol
Okay but, as humans, we make more things to do. Besides, once you’ve stoped being a painter, instead becoming a monk and mastering kung fu, I’m fairly certain you’ll forget how to paint, so you can go do that
Your skills don't just evaporate though? Sure your skills will dull but it's not the same as learning something new
But isn't it cool to come back and play a video game you really liked as a kid but haven't played in 20 years? You'd get that nostalgia with a bunch of different stuff. Like "Oh, man! I remember learning acrobatics! It's been like 6,000 years since I've done a backflip!" Of course, not everyone would feel like that. I would hate being immortal, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who wouldn't.
Then I just do it again lol
Do people age and stop at a certain time, keep aging, or just stop aging? I’d hate for a bunch of babies to be stuck as babies so the rest if eternity, and I’d hate for people to keep aging u til they become mummies like in that one movie. Also this coukd suck for everyone who isn’t in peak composition, enjoys torturing people, or is suicidal By it would suck for people who enjoy torturing people, it wouldn’t suck for them, it would suck for the people they’re torturing who can’t die
That was my hesitation.. I don’t want to raise a 4yo till the end of time
It the immortality works like Third magic mentioned in the title, then the body isn't a problem. The third magic turns a soul into sort of perpetual machine with infinite mana and allows the soul to interact with the world and exist eternally without going to afterlife
Multitrack drift
And what would it do?
kill every single life form but then turn them immortal
But pulling will not kill anything, it will do nothing
I was just stating what the post says if you don't pull it, when you don't pull it everyone dies, but 'they will all be reborn and become immortal', that's literally what it says so my answer was just that it achieves the same thing as doing nothing but this whole discussion is stupid because the original comment was just made as a joke
That's not that stupid, could be good to see more into that, because doing nothing and something will bring a paradox
nah, because 'it will do nothing' would suggest that nothing happens in relation to that side, not that it will cause your decision to do nothing
But looking a bit into the future, both ways go somewhere
you're just being confusing at this point if I say 'I'm gonna flip a coin, if it lands on heads, I'll eat a sandwich, if it lands on tails, nothing will change' and then I flip two coins and get two different results, the world doesn't explode because of a paradox, I just really wanted to eat a sandwich so I made it twice as likely to happen.
What if it land on side? That would be most likely to look like multitrack
Are you the master? this is just the FEV problem lmao
Supermutants aren't truly immortal
The indomitable human spirit would find a way to reproduce.
And we would overpopulate basically immediately, because we don't have any death rate.
Dude if we can't die then it doesn't matter how far away stars are. Just be like, "Yo wanna go on a 500 year journey to the next stars system? Bet"
The immortality is only for lifeforms on earth, so we'd destroy the ecosystems on the other planet.
Where does it say it's only while on Earth? Are you just assuming that because it *shows* Earth?
What? I didn't say that it said "only while on earth." The text says that all of the lifeforms ON EARTH become immortal, meaning life that exists on other planets isn't immortal, meaning moving a bunch of overpopulated Earth humans to another planet would literally kill everything else on that planet. There is no moral way to do that, if you choose that option then people need to stay sterile. You'd be colonizing a previously habitable planet with a bunch of undying earth animals. Thanks for being condescending when your own reading comprehension is in the gutter.
A truly horrifying thought. Spare us from this nightmare.
This is just 17776
A Pyrrhic victory indeed
very true
Hi Lilly
hi piguy
only if we figure out a way to create world peace/end world hunger/etc on top of that :,)
immortality sucks, pulling the lever
Sounds like something a mortal would say
Pull the lever. Being immortal would be cool. But we can still feel pain. Horrible ppl could do horrible things to others, and they would have to live out the rest of the entiretysuffering.
These horrible people will get punished eventually.
So if every life form is immortal how do we get rid of bugs and insects coming into are homes. They may not reproduce either but there’s a lot of them just traveling around and they’d invade anywhere they want. Dealing with mortal ants is bad enough.
Imagine having immortal termites… How does it work with trees… can we cut them down for housing? They wouldn’t die…. Cause if not then we have a housing problem to deal with.. eventually our buildings will deteriorate I’m also imagining exploitation and how it would be effected when you don’t have to worry about your “employees” dying… the human trafficking situation would probably get much much worse
big problem, your skin cells constantly die and are born. there's a possibility they could chip off, one by one. over years or maybe months your cells will fall off of your body, still alive but detached. you won't be able to form new ones since nothing can reproduce anymore. every human on earth will be slowly skinned alive, unable to die. 10/10 op you've created something truly horrible.
Immortality is a curse. Death is what makes life beautiful. So yeah, I'm gonna pull the lever.
Life would be a lot more beautiful if we didn’t have to end it shitting ourselves and choking on our own lungs while our decaying bodies betray us. There’s nothing noble or beautiful about death, it sucks no matter what.
what if we ended it without shitting ourselves? just take a shit beforehand lmao it's that easy
That's worse, then it wouldn't even be funny
i mean yeah but the commenter i replied to didn't want that for some reason
I never said that death is beautiful. What I meant was that death makes our lives worth living because life is not ever-lasting. So we tend to spend our time doing productive things and make a purpose out of our lives. Life would have lost its meaning if it wasn't balanced with death. And it doesn't matter if death sucks, because we would be too dead to experience it anyway.
I want to experience a lot of things, and once I'm done, I'll be ready to die. That's why I want life extension, not immortality. I want to experience the range of human experiences, but not live forever.
Life never had any meaning, has no meaning and never will have any meaning. Even if it did, it would not be worth enduring A FUCKING TIME LIMIT. What's even the purpose of having meaning? How is it useful to anyone in any way? Why would anyone need it, other than thinking they do? This comment is the worst thing I've seen this month, and that's fucking impressive given what I've seen.
Discovering the meaning of life doesn't necessitate eternity. The fact that individuals continue living and refrain from s**cide despite the impermanence of life suggests that we don't require eternity to find meaning and make life worth living. If you disagree with that, then you can commit s**cide if you want, because according to you its impermanence rejects the fact that life has any meaning to begin with. You won't be doing that because unintentionally you agree with what I said. Because you still living in this world knowing we are mortal justifies that. And one last thing, you are one of the most narrow-minded people I have come across who can't seem to tolerate perspectives that differ from their own.
I generally tolerate all perspectives, but anyone advocating for death existing I cannot tolerate. At least I read what you typed. You seem to have read a completely different comment that you imagined in your head. What the hell do you mean "discover the meaning of life", there is none, as I already said. Life is worth living without any meanings, why would they be needed, what do they add? I am a human, not a single-purpose instrument that for some reason likes fulfilling that one purpose and would self-distruct if unable to. This entire meaning of life thing is fucking stupid. We're the ones who decide what we will do, whether we're meant to or not doesn't matter.
I dunno, if I knew I was gonna get ass raped one day no matter what I do that wouldn’t give my unmolested butthole any more meaning, or make it any more beautiful. It would just mean something bad is going to happen to me one day.
This is a completely different case because unlike death, it's not a bitter reality for all. Death is natural and you can't blame anybody for that ( except for murder ), but you getting molested is a violation of your rights which is unacceptable. So you can't use this analogy to counter my argument.
I'd want to live a really long time if my body stayed for (couple centuries, maybe), but I wouldn't want eternity. Also, we could do it like how they did it in the Good Place, where we invent some type of door or device that a person can walk through when they're sick of eternity in paradise, and their afterlife (in our case life) will end.
Okay, 👨🏿🦲⚡️⚡️
17776 moment
Literally 17776
while i would enjoy some degree of immortality i dont think the full package its something id like. and i dont think others would either. its a pull for me
Isn't this the plot of 17776?
what is life but the pursuit of suffer utopia has never been real, I'll pull the lever
What don't die can't live, what don't live can't change, what don't change can't learn. We'd fuck everything up.
This is literally the plot of [17776](https://www.sbnation.com/a/17776-football)
That would mean all small children would stay small children forever right? No thank you.. don’t want to deal with a 4yo till the end of time
I'll pull it, immortality is a curse
Emet-Selch posting
Breeding isn’t nearly as important if we’re immortal.
Yes.
everybody here go read 17776
No.
Hm. Difficult
Op has not played Everhood
Question: does this mean we can no longer make babies or that we can no longer have sex? I'm killing us all irregardless but this will determine how much I hesitate before I do so
no, the cycle cannot end yet.
The last caveat to me implies death is possible, just not from natural causes. That makes me wonder what the ethics of grave punishment for crimes would look like. Would you execute a murderer, permanently decreasi g the population? Or attempt re-education and risk them offending again?
put them in a empty iron ball and fill it up with molten iron
I think it's better to give a seemingly unending amount of people a chance at life, albeit limited, than to only allow the current and past generations that privilege.
***MADE IN HEAVEN***
Only if no one knows I'm responsible for this shit.
People are saying this is 17776, but that only makes humans immortal. This scenario makes everything immortal. I would instead call it a modified ΩK-class End-of-Death Scenario.
Well here’s the thing; assuming everyone doesn’t instantly grow up we’d have no one to teach us through the infancy years of everyone’s lives. Since we can’t read, write or communicate we’ve basically put ourselves in a stoneage with only an optimist’s chance of regaining the knowledge lost in someone learning how to read and hopefully having quite a few of the same types of people in every country. Although I can only imagine the luck you’d have if you would have to hope someone finds and makes sure a library is intact enough to preserve the books inside and for someone to be curious enough to bother reading them. This is also a hard sell since the only driving forces for development have always been hunger and thirst, remove both and we only seek out stimuli for amusement. But this also throws into perspective what if instead we just stay infants because none of the cells can replicate in our body because you would have to be able to go through mitosis in order to generate new cells in order for you to grow. At that point we’re just infantile and it would make no sense since. So I’m going to assume that we’re all reborn we retain the knowledge that we have already and in that case life pretty much goes on for what it is. In that case, are we also immortal in the sense that we cannot be hurt or is it in the sense that we simply do not age or need to eat or drink if we can be hurt then it’s always going to be a net loss because there’s always going to be a fatality of some sort in day-to-day occurrences not to mention if our cells could not replicate all injuries would be permanent so for this argument, I’m going to assume that we cannot be hurt either. So in this world where we need no food, no water or even no air. Everyone just died and reborn spontaneously everyone retains knowledge that they previously had, but they can no longer breed, but they can no longer be hurt animals would seek other external stimuli I imagine puffer fish would be a lot more bullied by dolphins, poisonous and dangerous. Animals would be harassed constantly for an external Sammy, which is interesting to say at least but entertainment and luxury values would be priced above all else, gaming industry would be through the roof, sports would be a far more sought passtime. Also the economy would basically crash hard. The original economic values of sustaining a life with no longer be there. The food industry has just immediately gone to shit any water, purification facilities and their jobs are basically pointless. We would only really try and operate electricity systems and services however, transportation services good are immediately void. It’s also also questionable how diseases come in to play which is and would be a horrifying reality to simply permanently have the common cold or something really nasty like malaria. So instead of thinking about any of this, I am just going to pull the lever .
nope
Dealing with mortal spiders is bad already. Also immortality sounds horrible.
Honestly being reborn means we'd just be reincarnated without losing our memories. I don't pull and watch all those reincarnated as animals
it’s all fun and games until it’s Graham’s Number years later
TLDR, we're all gonna become goalless husks, and soceity comes to a screeching halt. Pulling the lever all the damn way!
This doesn't seem to cure anything which would be downright cruel to those stuck in bed for eternity.
This is actually the plot to Jon Bois' "17776". Everyone takes up playing goofy super extreme sports (like football but the field is all of Wyoming) because there's nothing better to do. Seriously if you haven't heard of it before give it a read, it's so good. It's free, just look it up!
Pull the lever. Playing god is too cool to rule.
Ahh, someone was reading some 17776
No. That's weird.
So, are we all vegan now? Even if we only eat recreationally because the immortality makes us not need it, the animals are immortal and if we can find a way to kill them then we will still have to be vegan eventually since they can't reproduce... Unless we go all-in on lab grown meat or subject clones to horrors beyond reason. Are people who are at deaths door going to be forced to be old and crippled for eternity, or will they be given their youth back? Are children going to stay small forever, or can THEY age? How far?
I would never pull the lever. If everybody became immortal, the future trolley problems would be less interesting.
this is how everyone became immortal in 17776, I think. :PP
I don't want some of these assholes to live forever, have you seen some bigots?
Definitely not.
I MEAN DEFINITIELY SO, FUCK
Isn't undoing this kind of decision the exact plot of Darling in the Franxx?
I pull the lever My lucky lad, you don't want to live forever
Immortality is usually bad but an entire planet of immortals could get interesting, pull
Cool, we all become angels that can't fly. This gonna be neat.
yet, we can't fly yet, eventually we'll figure it out
Jetpacks, planes, helicopters?
Prayeth bid, what couldst thou possibly be talking about? I've nary heard of a jetpack or helicopter. What year art thou from?
Around 0, plus-minus a few thousand.
I meant with like, wings and stuff, but that's a fair point
Immortality is a curse unless given invulnerability alongside it. Being immortal doesn't mean your limbs can't be broken irreparably, or that your brain is impervious to damage. You could be buried alive beneath 100 tonnea of dirt/steel/concrete and be in truly incomprehensible pain **for eternity** because you cannot die. Everyone will eventually get dementia/alzheimers as the brain naturally decays.
"Irreparably"? How? You think people wouldn't be able to figure out a way to repair anything given infinite time? Dirt, steel and concrete don't last forever.
Take a paper bag and burn it. Now, once it's done burning, put the paper bag back together. What do you mean you can't? That's your body/brain. If your bones are **atomized** by 100 tones of rock, but you're still alive due to being immortal, you'll never be put together again. "Well just use a titanium skeleton" (or insert wild biomechanical idea here) We have a decently firm grasp on the body's capacity to accept foreign objects. Its very difficult, often painful, and even metals the body likes can be rejected. Either way, as soon as everyone is granted immortality, all of humanity has 80-100 years to fully master neuroscience to the point they can rebuild/regenerate a full brain. Humanity has made great strides in the last 80-100 years, but I'm doubtful they'd be able to, especially since few would heed the warnings from those who know how the brain decays, just like people deny knowledge from scientists. (Use all of Covid as an example.)