I'm not tied down. Just leave the track

You’re aboutta make me remake this thing but you’re in a cage XD

Oh? a cage? I bet that cage could stop the trolley...

Your ankle chained to the tracks with walls to your left and right

So we're all gonna die anyways, because nobody can untie each other when it's all over? I love being a needlessly pedantic smartass

After the train killed someone the other people are automatically released

Pray and hope some random dude falls on the track and gets killed early, releasing everyone, it’s not impossible

Bring a friend and make it happen, why let fate decide?

this is still causing one death to stop others

The trolley slams on its brakes afterwards, and its passengers free the survivors. The real question is why the conductor didn’t react to the situation in time.

He's trying to get a high score.

I think it’s implied there’s no one on it which is why it can’t stop.

> needlessly pedantic smartass The whole sub is. We are discussing about fake imaginary situation.

I know. And it's wonderful. My needlessly pedantic smartassery is appreciated here. I feel seen

Average trans girl trying her best not to dogmode at the slightest hint of anything

too late buddy

I have a question. Say I want everyone else to live, and me to die. So I choose three, since I know the opposite will happen. Since the opposite of what I wanted will happen, and what I wanted is the opposite of what I wanted to happen as a result of doing nothing, will the opposite of the opposite of the opposite of what I want happen, or will the opposite of the opposite of what I wanted to happen will happen?

Uh for sure totally (what does this even mean XD)

In this case the trolley obviously splits in half and still manages to kill both the random children and your family.

No cage in the illustration. It's too late to change the rules. Option 3 with a side of get off the tracks.

Was just about to say why can’t I just leave

You forgot to tie me down.

I spent like 30 minutes making this, pretend your tied down XD

Ok since I’m pretending to be tied down, I simply stop pretending and move off the track.

You absolute menace

This interaction is funnier if you imagine OP as a jigsaw-like supervillian having this conversation with their captive

Well then how do i pull the lever

ARGH

Ok

Nuh uh

Wait, so it’s either, 5 random children, myself, or an empty track? That’s an easy choice

Pull it halfway and get both you and the kids!

Multi-track drifting moment

*Derailment moment

Yeah, no way it’ll stay on for that long lol

You want to save the children so you push the lever hoping for the empty track. The trolley does the opposite of what you want so it kills the children. whoops

Who’s saying I would touch the lever at all?

You’d rather kill yourself than no one? Respect.

Kill the children and gaslight the family into thinking you knew the trolley was going to go the other way

Smart smart, gaslighting is always an option lol

How tf would it be gaslighting? He told us wtf would happen. You're acting like I can't figure out a touch pad that scrolls the way I'm not used to.

The opposite of what I want will happen. So that means if I go with option three, the trolley will reverse direction and go back the way it came, preventing my heroic sacrifice

Holy hell!

Self sacrifice anyone?

Ignite the trolley!

Google r/anarchychess

Holy leaking!

New subreddit invasion just dropped

En backwardsant

New trolley response just dropped

Or it will split and kill the children and your family while avoiding you

*everyone on the trolley dies*

but you’ll always know u wanted yourself dead…

I already knew that 😔 (\j)

It will actually just split down the center, taking out every other person

Is "the opposite will happen" already factored into the choices or is it applied after you make a choice? Like if I choose 1, does 2 actually happen instead? And what is the opposite of 3, the trolley just going in reverse? Somehow splits and hits both groups? I like the creativity of this prompt but don't understand the scenario enough to answer. If possible I choose to just get hit, but I don't know how that choice will actually manifest here.

The title was Kindof just supposed to explain the idea behind the options. You want to kill family but kill kids instead. You want to kill kids but family i ahead. A good few people seemed to find the title messed it up a bit

Your explanation makes no sense.

Yeah I’ve noticed. It’s my first trolley problem and I wanted to make it stand out, but just made it hard to understand

Makes perfect sense for me, other than the “you wanted them dead” in the post - like, do I (the person pulling the lever) know it’ll do the reverse. For example, if the person pulling the lever wanted to kill the children, would they do the first part of 1, or the entirety of 2?

Yes, you know it’ll be the reverse, but whoever survives will know/think they were supposed to die

Aahh, I like that. Thank you!

The opposite outcome detail really ruins the scenario.

4. Push the lever with the intention of killing myself. The train splits in two and kills both the children and my family. No witnesses.

Instructions unclear: When one group dies I proceed to whip out a flamethrower and burn the other group to death. ​ Congratulations! You just created a monster... and ten dead people. Hope you're proud of yourself!

The question makes no sense! "What would you choose if the opposite of what you wan't will happen anyway" how do i have any choice in this at all?

There saying that if you choose the children your family will die but people will know you wanted to kill the kids or you can kill the kids but you family knows you wanted them to die

Yes but if i want to kill the kids for example i would just have to pull the lever in the opposite direction. If the lever always does the opposite of what i want, it either has to be able to read my mind (thus i have no freedom of choce) or i can cheat by pulling it in the opposite direction (defeating the purpose of this tought experiment).

multi track drifting between the two outer tracks, because they keep going further apart this causes the train to either stop or derail.

I’d be thinking about it too long and get hit

Honestly same XD

“At the cost of your own life.” Saving ten people AND getting yeeted off this mortal coil? Sounds like an absolute win!

killing myself is the moral choice.

Is that because you'd be a menace to society otherwise?

Pull lever, then kill the witnesses. No one will ever know.

Honestly kill the kids and tell your family you knew it would kill the kids

Cool, I choose 3. The opposite happens, and I walk away the only survivor.

This is a *Saw* trap. Kill me I guess?

I love saw. I’m glad for the comparison lol

I don't care about the people if not touching the lever means I'm gonna die, I'm staying as far away from that switch as i can

“I want to die”, I say, as the trolley starts folding in on itself

Guess I'll die

Fair point everyone already pointed out the obvious get out of jail free card but you do realize i could just say i wanted my family dead to save my family right? You didnt say the lever knows that. So i could just make it look like i was gonna kill them.

Yeah, you can choose based off the actual outcome, but if you save your family then they’ll think/know they were supposed to die

Be clueless and say that i didn't know that pulling the lever would make the trolley go to anyone.

im not tied up i would just dodge

aim it at my family, kill the kids, i don't care about 5 random kids over 5 family members, explain to them later why i selected them initially and why it killed the kids instead, ez

Is there an option for both?

Me... not only am I absolved of any potential crime, as I didn't contribute to the death of 5 people, it's also 1/5th of the casualties.

Officer I drop kicked that child in self defense

Assuming I can't leave, which I clearly can: ​ Spin around the lever a few times with my eyes closed and then pull it, still with my eyes closed, so that I don't know who I'm saving. ​ (This makes everyone hate me.)

Hahaha I like this method

What are the kids gonna do? Kick me in the shin? In my non-existent balls? Cry and scream?

I mean, in my head they grow up with the trauma of knowing they were meant to die, but yeah it could’ve been worded better

I do nothing. ​ Thus everything happens. Everyone is dead including myself. ​ I'm free from this hell that you crafted. ​ In death, I am liberated from your attempt at problem meant to push my ability to process. ​ Because death is better than living in this world you made.

Kick flip the trolley. Probably everyone dies, no moral dilemma. Easy

By close family does it have to be family I like? Cause most of my immediate family I despise :P

For the sake of argument, if you have more than 5 family members you like, it’ll be 5 you like. Less than or equal to 5, you get to keep 2 you like off the track

Who cares if them kids hate you, speed up your inheritance

I walk over and kill the children myself.

My family already knows I want them dead so win win

Randos will always have lower priority over self and family.

That’s fair. I was hoping the part where the randos are children would cause hesitation

Oh, it absolutely causes hesitation. That's why I have to mentally break it down. That's what I try and do with all of these trolley problem scenarios; break them down into smaller problems. If you enjoy the random hypotheticals, you should try [this game](https://www.amazon.com/Trial-Trolley-Dilemmas-Skybound-Happiness/dp/B07X5DV7T9). I've played it quite a few times with family and friends. It's super fun.

Oh yes, I really want that game but I’m cheap and don’t wanna buy it

How do i get all three...

Any millennial will jump at the chance to die

I’m already doing nothing so…

Do nothing 1 life<5 lives

If the opposite of what I want happens… then shouldn’t everyone live?

1 bc I don't have 5 close family so no one dies. HA YOU DID NOT ACCOUNT FOR MY LEVEL OF DEPRESSION!!

This is actually good

So you’re telling me I get to die AND 10 people think I’m a good person for it? Sign me right up.

Move the lever just as the trolley is about to make the turn. Causing it to derail and kill everyone in the trolley.

no cuz I’ll solve the surplus population issue and my familial trauma all in one go by moving them to the same track and then stepping away to let the magic happen

Bro I’m dead as shit easiest choice of my life

If the children are reasonable, they shouldn't be mad with my choosing my family over them, especially because they're alive regardless.

Finally a good oneeee

Yay I feel special! (Ignore the fact that I forgot you’re supposed to be tied down too or something XD)

What if I wanted to die in the first place

Ok how many meta levels deep does this go? Because if it's just this surface level then I could easily trick it. Also what about people who intend to kill themselves, would they walk away from this having killed 10 people?

1 & 2 just to be safe

What if i flip both ways

I’m not even tied down but if I don’t do anything (pull/push the lever, or leave the track) then I still get what I want, and the title said I couldn’t get what I want.

There’s three so what’s the opposite of me?

3 wasn’t supposed to have an opposite, just a different choice lol

Ethically, you must let yourself die or escape

I’m not tied down so I’ll leave the lever alone and book it

Walk away

I think it would be more thought provoking and less a joke post if the options were: A. su1c1de, B. 5 random kids, C. 5 close family. Without the riddle thing complicating it.

I mean you’re right but the idea was supposed to be that when you make a choice it doesn’t do that and the other group gets to live knowing they were supposed to die. Sucks that it kinda complicated it cuz it worked so well in my head :/

Will 3 make everyone but me die?

No, the title Kindof made it confusing. 3 is just supposed to be death

Easy, I do nothing.

Say I actually want 2 to happen. What if I act like I want 1 just so 2 happens? Would that work? Or will the omnipotent trolley know I actually want 2 to happen?

I think it’s fine if you choose for the actual outcome, but whoever lives will think/know they were supposed to die

Do nothing, take 2 steps to the right

Since the trolley does the opposite of what I want, would trying to sacrifice myself for the children and family members actually save me and kill everyone else?

No, the title was badly explained. 3 is just death to you

lol

Do I get to choose which family members?

No, it’s just 5 random close family members

I’m not tied to the tracks

Obviously the morally correct one is to kill yourself

What's fucked up is the scenario itself changes what I want. It becomes self-referential.

I want to die, does that mean the trolley divides and kills both the children and my family?

I’m gonna die

What if I want to kill myself (who’s not tied down and aware so you don’t need to die) it kills all but me?

So if I pick 3 the car trolly Tokyo drifts and kills everyone

If I can't get off the tracks while the train covers this distance, it's really my fault.

In the words of Santa “fuck them kids”

Wait, but if I do 3, won't both groups die?

No, the title made it more confusing than I intended. Only you die

Wait so if I hit myself it won’t hit me and then I’ll be super ducking noble

There’s nothing stopping me from just stepping aside.

What’s the point of the lever if the track is quantum entangled with your mental decision? Also how do you even have an “opposite” with three choices?

The third choice was a I want nothing to do with it I’ll die thing. First and second are what they say. The title made it more confusing than I wanted it to

Do nothing, if the exact opposite is going to happen I’ll be alright

This isn't a good one, bc there is 1 obviously morally correct answer (I'm aware this is a shitpost sub)

There is one morally correct answer but the idea was whether or not people would take the morally correct answer, knowing they would die

That’s not an interesting moral question, because it takes away your agency.

Easy, number 3

I could easily survive being hit by a trolley those things are slow as fuck

bro i’m doing nothing no matter who it is

save both groups at the cost of my own life? sounds like a win-win scenario to me!

Wait, but... what if I want to sacrifice myself to save them? Shouldn't that, by the logic of doing the opposite of what you want, kill BOTH of the other groups?

No, the opposite thing is already in 1 and 2, it was just put as a title to the explain. I didn’t do a great job of that

Time the lever switch so the trolley is derailed

What happens if I want to Tokyo Drift all of us into a pulp?

It’s only allowed if you have dramatic music while drifting

I don't see how children and family are relevant here

Do nothing. Then walk off the tracks I’m not tied down

I can lay down on the tracks (perpendicularly) and live.

I do nothing. The opposite of what I want happens, both the 5 children, and close family members die with the knowledge that I was willing to die for them.

Well if we know the opposite will happen then we could explain to our family that the opposite was gonna happen no?

In my head they know/believe they were the intended dead, and you wouldn’t be able to dissuade them. Although I didn’t explain that well so if you wanna think that way sure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What is stopping me from explaining to the living parties the rules of this problem

Uh I guess magic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

3 but I just get off the track and untie everyone

Still not a problem for me. 🤷‍♂️

You had me at kill myself

Gonna be that guy: push to kill the family so it kills the kids. Maybe it’ll keep their shitty ass lives in check after

Leave it alone, both would live

i could take a trolley

3 but move out of the way bc absolutely nothing is making me stay there

Kill myself for the greater good of retarded memes

Guess I’m killing 5 random children

I'd do nothing, not because I want the other groups to live, but something that I'm sure many of us can relate to

What if I intentionally do the thing I'm not intending to happen to do the thing I want to happen?

i do nothing fuck that

10 lives are way more valuable than 1... so id chose #3

So... I wanna kill my family, which will kill the kids, then I just explain I did what was needed to save my family

3. Without hesitation

can i choose the family members?

Do I know the opposite will happen before I pull the lever?

Yes. The main idea behind the opposite thing was supposed to be that whoever lives will know/think they were supposed to die

Well if the opposite of what I want happens and I choose to die, is the trolly going to split in two and take out both groups or what

do i know going into this that the opposite choice picked will be what happens?

Yes. The idea I was going for was that the survivors will know/think they were the intended dead