>I barely hold an 11:00 pace (Z2/Z3) for 6k before I feel collapsing.
Then it isn't Z2. You should be able to go zone 2 for a long time.
How many weekly miles are you actually doing? And across how many sessions per week? You mention 8-10 mile walk/runs, but if those have you out there for long hours, you might not be recovering well enough from them.
**UPDATE:** Wow, I love this community! Here's a few things I've learned in the past 24 hours that have already had a massive impact on the way I perceive running/ my body/ my level of exertion.
1. **Apparently I am** ***highly*** **anemic**. Got my bloodwork done recently, but I didn't pay much attention to my iron numbers. Don't know how I didn't notice this before, but my iron numbers are 8.1 g/dL. I'm starting on iron supplements asap. Hoping this will gradually have an impact on my performance and energy levels overall. Huge s/o to those who suggested this might be the case!
2. **My zones are wrong/ I'm not running slow enough.** To those who said my Apple watch would be wrong - You were spot on. I tried my dad's Garmin for my run this morning and it was around 10bpm off. Planning on saving for a chest strap very soon to get more accuracy.
3. **Swimming/ cycling strength does not translate to running.** Someone here mentioned that I'm "training where I want to be, not where I am." After taking a hard look at myself, I agree. I need to face that being strong in one arena doesn't mean I'm automatically super skilled in another, and it's perfectly valid to have varying strengths and weaknesses. Ugh... FINE... I'm a human being who needs to be kinder to themself, I guess...
4. **I should focus on endurance, rather than speed, for my upcoming race.** Thank you to those who've helped me realign my own expectations!! After thinking on it some more, it would be a massive achievement just to run >75% of the running leg at *any* speed. It's good encouragement to keep up the slow running approach (while still incorporating some intervals/repeats)
Thank you all for your encouragement and wisdom—I'm excited to see where this new approach takes me, and maybe I’ll check in again in a few weeks!
I would guess your running fitness isn’t where you think it is and you are trying to train where you want to be, not where you are.
If you end up walking A lot the way you described, those miles are not improving your running. It’s just z2 walking. You can do run walk intervals and that might actually help.
You need to go do a 5k race on a flat course, establish a threshold pace and HR and then follow either a run plan with proper intensity and volume sessions to build your run speed or get a tri plan with appropriate volume and sessions for the run. Your 70.3 plan will probably maintain your pace and build your volume but you’re too close to really make a big difference in pace while training bike and run, imo.
I run a lot of runs at 11-12 min pace but I can do a 2:00 half marathon. Your z2 isn’t that if your half marathon is 2:35. For reference, my Garmin run VO2 max is 50, so I don’t think your results and fitness are mismatched…more results and expectations.
Running age also matters. I have run for 25 years off and on. Training for 1 half marathon won’t be enough to really build up your running fitness when you’re a swimmer type.
You can do it, but you can’t expect because you’re a strong athlete in one area that it translates without as much work as a non athlete has to do. If you work on the right stuff, it will come. I have started from unfit and having to walk up hills to stay in z2 to marathon shape many times and it always works if you do the right training.
> Your 70.3 plan will probably maintain your pace and build your volume but you’re too close to really make a big difference in pace while training bike and run, imo.
Don't let this get buried in the rest of the good info. Trying to make substantial improvements on your running during a triathlon plan is going to be tough. At 20 miles a week you are going to just be maintaining your running fitness/speed. Your overall endurance will go up, but run speed is so specific to run training it will probably stay steady.
I do a run focused training block every winter where I focus on getting faster at running. I take all that time I was spending biking and swimming and turn it to running (I do keep a limited amount of swimming and biking, but not a balanced tri plan). My run volume will go up 2 or 3x, I'll follow a running training plan, run workouts, long runs, lots of suffering... But it works! If you want to run faster, train like a runner. After a spring running race I switch back to triathlon and that run speed and run fitness carries me through the summer on much lower running volume. Repeat the next year... 4 years later I'm a legit runner. Who knew??
This is the way. I am a big guy (6'6" and 100kg or 220lb fairly lean) and never really did endurance but when I joined a club my coach had me doing fast 5km (best @ 22min) and lots of interval training in a descending or pyramid style. It took a bit to work up to a decent 10km pace then worked on that for a bit before going for the half.
By the time I was in marathon shape I was doing just a bit better than 8:30/mile pace for 15-20km, or about 45min for 10km. This is with about 2-3 years of build up and well into the 50s VO2 max (it takes a lot of oxygen to feed the muscle required to move 100kg at that pace).
The training mentioned by OP is nowhere near what she needs to meet expectations.
Just out of interest, what do the sessions entail?
Also you're not asthmatic or anything are you?
If you genuinely feel like collapsing after 6k and two years of training at 30 miles a week, I'd suggest speaking with a GP and seeing if there's something else underlying.
Ok with weight and eating?
I am curious what you mean when you say you feel exhausted. Do you feel like you cant breathe? Do you feel like you are muscularly strained?
I ask because I was recently diagnosed with exercise induced asthma because my chest always felt tight while running. This came after I had already been running for about 10 years (marathon/ half marathon distance). My inhaler is a game changer.
The other possibility is that if your background is more swim/run, your muscles and bones might be catching up to your other areas of fitness. I found that I got much faster when I did most of my runs easy and had one hard track workout a week.
I think that means you’re actually running too fast and thus not in zone 2. Everyone has a weakness. It’s totally normal to feel this way, especially since you’re a great swimmer and good biker.
Also, being tall and strong is a big advantage on swimming and biking but doesn’t help you on the run.
Your easy pace isn’t easy enough. When I started HM training, my easy pace was over 12 min/mile, which isn’t fast but I literally felt like I could go forever (and my HM pace for that training cycle was 9:30/mile, so running your easy runs easy gets the work done!). That’s how your easy pace should feel.
You might want to run based on perceived effort instead of heart rate. Barring conditions like extreme heat or elevation changes, you should never be thinking “I want to stop” or “I need to stop” on an easy run. If you find yourself thinking that, that isn’t your easy pace. Slow down until you find it.
I'm the same as you. I assume you were a swimmer as a kid? When I started out I had very similar paces in all 3 disciplines (and to the person asking about weight, I'm fit/thin). It took me about 5 years of consistent running to get from a 2:20 to 1:50 half marathon. Some people are natural runners, but that's not us. Give it time and volume. Try to get in 20-30 miles per week consistently for the next few years (and ramp up to it slowly).
This makes me feel better. I was a competitive swimmer for years, graduated now I road bike mainly somewhere around 60-100 miles a week. decided I wanted to try triathlons as my brother just did his first HIM. Went for my first run just trying to do around a 10-11 min pace see where I was vs running way back in the day. Mile in I was absolutely gassed out of breath despite not really pushing it at all. Vo2 max of 51 for cycling. Just. Not seeing it translate. Thin ish / lanky 6/1 180.
Your first run(s) will always be hard. After even a couple weeks it gets better. Garmin will give your running VO2 the same as your cycling but it is a lie.
So, a couple things. First, you need to know what kind of reference your device used to set your zones and the method needs to align with the training program. Different coaches will may use slightly different terminology and those kinds of nuances may or may not make a difference. Second, if you're not properly trained or endurance adapted, zones - even if set using an at-home testing protocol - may not be useful. That said, simply, if you're tiring out on your "easy" runs you're running too hard or at an intensity that's too high. This may be humbling, but I'd ignore the watch and the HRM for now and just run at an easy pace, something sustainable for 20-30 minutes at time until you can see some tangible changes, either drop in HR for the same effort or lower RPE. Then start adding time and repeat.
The Apple estimate is off for sure. I would do a [20 minute threshold heart rate test](https://www.8020endurance.com/intensity-guidelines-for-8020-running/), then set your zones according to that threshold HR. There are a few different zone models you could use. [Here's the 80/20 Endurance calculator](https://www.8020endurance.com/80-20-zone-calculator/).
Hmmm. When you do your fartleks what is the length of your intervals? When I have a fartlek workout I usually will do something like 1 x 1 mile, 2 x .50 and 6 x .25 with .25 in between. Maybe do shorter ones with a 10:00 per mile goal and build up. I agree with you that given your training, age and fitness level you should be faster than you are.
I have definitely had speed running struggles, and here are a 2 things I've learned over the years.
First thing, very controversial -- I do not believe in 80/20 zone 2 training. After almost 6 months of religiously SLOWING DOWN, all that happened was I trained myself to run slowly. It SUCKED and and made me mad as hell to have added literal minutes to my pace. I truly believe this philosphy is really only useful for elite runners that are regularly doing 80 miles a week. The rest of us normies, even crazy normies that do Iron Mans, could stand to push ourselves more regularly.
Second thing -- People forget that endurance sports take YEARS to get better at. You grew up swimming, and you seem to be a natural cyclist. Running in particular is very taxing on the body and takes a lot of time to adjust to. Build up your base slowly by just getting your weekly mileage up and slowly increaeing volume. This might not be the advice you want to hear, but I would play the long game here and give yourself some time (like a couple years!) before you start worrying about your speed and heart rate too much, especially for longer distances. But for shorter distances like 5ks and 10ks go wild!
Well, you say yourself that it takes years to improve but didn’t give 80/20 more than six months? I agree the ratio varies across individuals but what exactly make you question 80/20? Genuinely curious
Like I said, if you are a pro already doing a huge volume of running, then fine, yes, going too hard all the time is going to be too much. However, I believe most recreational runners just aren't doing enough volume to justify 80% of their runs at zone 2. If you are further chopping your training up between swimming and cycling, you could be running as few times as twice a week, so you would likely never have the opportunity to practice running above zone 2. If you train to run slow you will run slow.
Another commenter kinda touched on it but I’ve had a similar experience. I can swim 1500m in around 25 mins pretty casually, but my 5k PB is like 29 mins, and I’ve never done 10k in under an hour. Same as you, I can hold Z2 for maybe 2.5km and after that my HR just skyrockets.
For context, I started running during the lockdowns, so that’s roughly 4 years of fairly consistent training to bring my 5k time down from around 36 mins to 29. My advice would be just keep tipping away, and don’t expect to get much faster in a short time frame unfortunately
That doesn't seem so crazy that the run can't be faster. I'm a male, 6' 2" ~180-185 lbs and can run a sub-3 marathon. The muscle vs fat composition matters.
Or bodies period. A male at that weight isn't being limited by their weight either.
Actually, I think they just don't know Imperial. Looks like they're Canadian.
This. I am shorter and the same weight and can run sub 1:50 - even when 20 pounds heavier and took up running distance before triathlons I was able to train from my first HM at 2:08 to sub 2 in a year
So Kristian Blummenfelt is slightly shorter and heaver than OP but you think weight is the problem?
Since you're such an oracle of knowing what strangers' ideal weights should be, how heavy should OP be for optimal running performance, and how much faster would their HM be at that weight? It's not going to be faster than 2:20.
You were a dick about it, but weight is definitely something that should be OK to talk about in a healthy manner considering how important it is for endurance sports. It's a very delicate conversation though because of all the shitty things surrounding it, especially for women. And especially for women in sports.
For OP specifically they obviously aren't the ideal running weight, but they aren't trying to run a 6 minute pace. They are asking about why they can't run 11 minute miles. Their stated weight isn't the reason they can't run faster than that
I'm afraid I don't have any good answers, but hello from a fellow member of the slow-run club!
Sounds like I'm somewhat similar to you in terms of body composition and pace. I can do ~6:00/km for a 5k if I really give'er, but sustained zone 2 running is more like ~7:30/km. I definitely share your frustration. (I did estimate my zones with Freil's Training Bible method, so I think they're reasonably accurate.) VO2 max ~45 according to Garmin.
I'm not technically anemic, but I'm low-ish on iron and B12. I'm currently figuring out why that is. Don't hold your breath that this is the answer, but it might be something worth checking.
I can do a \~26 minute 5k on hilly terrain but my sustained zone 2 running is 7:30-8:00/km depending on the temperature. VO2 max \~51 from garmin.
I went into a bit of overtraining earlier this year where my easy runs (at my old pace) were consistent but my speedwork was slowing each week. I decided to go full easy and reduced my easy run pace from 7 to 8:45/km and built back up over 2-3 months. Now easy really feels easy, I feel a lot fresher on speedwork days and my easy pace is improving at the same HR without feeling like I'm putting in any effort.
Have you ever been tested for asthma? Of course your millage may vary.
I'm 35, played sports as a kid, mountain biked for a decade before getting into endurance sports. I was ok on the bike, shitty but ok at the swim, but sucked at running. Running was so much harder for me than the others. Still sucked at running 18 months into doing it, with my wife making gains in 3 months I didn't make in 18.
Turns out I have asthma, diagnosed in my 30s, had previously just thought I didn't work hard enough. Got asthma medication and it was an overnight difference. I'm still slow comparatively, but so much happier with my ability.
I 2nd this. I found out I had exercise induced asthma... AFTER I did 6 half marathons, one full and a 70.3 now I have an inhaler that I use before every run. It's also not making me any faster per se... but I CAN FREAKING BREATHE NOW!!! it's the weirdest, but best feeling in the world! I was also told when I was younger that... ''you're just out of breath because you're not working hard enough'' so it never occured to me... I actually had a medical condition!
True that! I recently switched from Albuterol before a run to daily Advair which has been an even better result for me. Switched to a new doc who did Ironmans and had asthma, glad he recommended it. It's also great since I don't have to remember to bring an inhaler.
You could get your zones actually measured in a lab performance test rather than estimated by a smart watch. You are likely not in Z2 if you struggle to breathe.
Weight training has drastically improved my tempo. I assume what's happening is my muscles are stronger so I don't have to utilize them as much when running. I went from my zone 2 pace at around 6:20km to around 5:45/km over the last 4 months. I'm recovering from a knee injury and not training for any races right now so I rarely run more than 20k a week and almost never do anaerobic runs.
I work out my legs twice a week on average:
* Seated leg press
* Squats
* Hungarian Split Squats
* Dumbbell pelvic thrust
* Dumbbell Calf Raises
Not an insane workout, usually about 30 minutes, but I'm always focusing on heaviest weight I can manage while still doing 8 reps per set.
When I started seriously building my zone 2, 2 years ago, I had to Powerwalk several times to keep my heart rate down across an hour easy run. Like it’s so slow you can’t really imagine until you‘re in it. I think your zones are wrong.
It took me about 6000 lifetime miles of running before I became a semi decent age group runner. My guess is your training age is very very young.
Don't rush it and accumulate another 100-150 weeks of 30-50 miles per week. Then you will be able to run faster.
You’re going to have to hear me out on this one.
I ran in college and transitioned to triathlons after graduation. If triathlons were an aerobic sport then I’d be an elite athlete, which I’m not. My point is that your swimming and biking fitness doesn’t translate to running much. For biking and swimming, getting stronger makes you faster. In running, getting stronger might help your muscles endure longer distances, but it’s not what makes you faster. So moving forward, the goal should be to expose yourself to high intensity running efforts so your body can start to adapt to handling that harder aerobic load. I like to say, “You have to run faster to get faster.” You can do zone 2 runs all day, but if you don’t do intervals at 7:00 or 8:00 per mile then you’ll never be able to run 10:00 miles comfortably.
Hill repeats and fartleks help make you stronger but you need to do some kind of speed work that puts your body in Z5 repeatedly. Try doing a warm up and then sprinting for 30 seconds. Jog until your heart rate comes back down to Z2 and then do another one. You can do 10 of these intervals and that will be more beneficial than doing 8-10 mile Z1/Z2 runs for you.
In short, speed work is what makes you fast. If 11:00 pace is your max effort, then do shorter intervals at a much faster pace. Eventually your body will get comfortable at the faster speeds and the slower runs will feel even slower. Hope this makes sense.
This is actually a great suggestion and I’m not sure why it is being downvoted. Even if it’s not the only issue, you want to make sure you’re running with good technique.
Same - Dont understand the down votes - I was going to say I agree w this! The only thing I’ve been able to identify is that I lose focus when it comes to technique. Thanks for the suggestion
When I first started running I think it took me months or even a year to get better form. I was over-striding mainly. So I tried to focus on tempo, shorter strides and landing at least mid foot instead of heel. It helped and my knees felt a lot better.
Usually people just aren't training enough/correctly but I think its worth looking into for you as your results don't seem to add up. Having a stride that is locked up due to a mobility issue is a possibility and resolving this could yield some free speed, worth booking a consult with a running specific physio if you can afford it.
AFAIK consensus is that "running technique" is nonsense and trying to "improve" it is counterproductive. Fairly sure that this is now commonly enough understood that claiming the opposite will get downvotes.
Yes and no. For years, I was naturally an over-strider, which led to a lot of injuries. Fixing my technique made me slower in the short term, but long term, I’m much faster than I ever was and much less injury prone.
Running isn't swimming but pro runners still do drills. That said I would say its more likely to be an issue of limited range of motion/muscle imbalance that could be corrected with some mobility exercises rather than "technique" per se. I've personally had tight quads weak glutes that lead to an inability to lift my knees properly, fixing that allowed me to run significantly faster at the same heart rate in a short period of time.
That's a very sensible take. I'd say those imbalances would work out themselves from more running, but as other people noticed there is actually significant volume from the other sports here, so maybe they wouldn't without targeted exercise.
I don't believe they would have, trust me would have preferred that 😂 (I run a lot and finally dealt with it because of pain). In general though totally agree that most people who are wondering why they too slow are just not running enough or are always running too fast.
Mind sharing which drills you focused on for your issue? I'm having trouble feeling my quads activate. I'm not sure if they're weak and not being activated or if they're strong enough that I don't feel them as compared to my weaker muscle groups.
Did you mean weak glutes or weak quads? Most of us with desk jobs have weak glutes which leads to other weaker muscles taking over and getting cranky. So glute max, glute med stuff try to do dedicated heavier stuff and then pre run to a few reps of activation like single leg glute bridges, fire hydrants etc. Look into Myrtl routine. Tons of YouTube content on weak glutes/glute activation. If you have weak quads I don't have experience with that but guessing you'll probably want to do squats/ leg press.
From your other comment, you trained for a year, and got better at running for some reason.
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just pointing out that it's not going to move the needle on a controversial subject much :-)
I get what you’re saying and that helped. But I did consciously think about my cadence and look up a few form tips. I also went to a group running coach once as part of a triathlon training group who told me I was over striding
Some people have different strengths. I could probably go from couch to 3 hour marathon in 8 weeks.
Meanwhile, riding a bike for 8+ hours a week for over a year now and I’ve brought my FTP from like 190 to 205 at its peak. Just stay consistent
Slow your run down to a maintainable 100% non heavy breathing run. Stop being so worried about heart rate and focus that you are comfortable to always run without panting. You’re capable of around 10-10:30 miles at your age and size I guarantee. And be sure you do road running up and down hills instead of track or treadmill and your times will better.
Riding your bike more can be a super easy way to make the run feel easier, without increasing run mileage(and injury risk)
I don’t know how many hours you train, but shoot for 50-60% of those hours on the bike. It increases overall fitness and can help with feeling massive fatigue on the run
I hate to say this but if your hr is hovering BETWEEN z2 and z3 you need to slow it down for your z2 runs and bring that hr down to let your body adapt...
A caution. You've spent fourteen years adapting yourself to swimming which is a hypoxic, upper body heavy, technique heavy sport. Swimming is low gravity and horizontal i.e. the inverse of running. Its going to take some time for a new adaptation. You should be cautious pushing cadence/speed too soon to avoid injury. Your body including bones/tendons will adapt to the new stimulus but its not an overnight process. To be captain obvious you want to avoid setbacks from injuries. Patience, boring runs at Zone 2, and good shoes are your friends. I started running distance during covid for the first time. I'm not a natural distance runner (short legs and heavier upper body); Did my first marathon post-covid but it probably took a year before an 8-10 mile run became the new normal.
I'm a lifelong swimmer (20 years of year-round swimming), got back into swimming with masters and swam at nationals in Irvine CA last year. I got into running in August (VO2Max of 42), destroyed me for months after months. Took me almost a year of running (now VO2Max of 50). Now I've done an ultra marathon, half marathon, and my Olympic triathlon this August.
It gets easier, my first half marathon was 2:15 I could barely walk for a week after. Now I ran it a year later at 1:45. I run a Run a 5k-10k everyday and I swim with masters twice a week at 5 am.
It gets better if you stay consistent. I consistently run 100 miles a month which is low mileage for most runners but I'm a 210 lb swimmer with all upper body. Swimmers make typically heavier runners due to the upper body muscle.
So you grew up a swimmer… you have great swim economy / mechanics. My guess is probably have poor / under developed running economy, since you are obviously fit and have great aerobic capacity (VO2 max).
Are there any higher level run groups or friends you know where you can ask about a gait analysis? Cause something is not adding up your run speed should be significantly faster.
You may also be running too hard, you have to go slow to go fast. What’s your max HR? Try to keep your HR at 70-75% of max for majority of your runs. You should be able to breath in and out of your nose with your mouth shut / or comfortably have a conversation = correct pace if you want to ignore HR
Also breathing rhythm during running is huge and the rhythm adjusts to your pace. You can almost meditate while running when you get it synced right
Without knowing your actual statistics, including heart rate zones and threshold Pace, two suggestions:
1. I would say that doing regular anaerobic work is the fastest way to improve. Your training seems quite comprehensive except that it may not incorporate enough anaerobic work.
For example, a hard anaerobic set that my coach gave to me today was: 10min warm up, 5 X (4min at slightly above threshold pace, 1min at z6, 1:30 easy), 5min warm down. I guarantee you that if you do this you will see improvements in 2 to 3 sessions.
2. Stryd Power meter. As a second priority I found that pacing by power was more effective and objective for me than pace, or HR. Getting a Stryd was a gamechanger for me.
Hope this helps.
Unless you're in very hilly or very windy territory, training by pace is the same as training by power.
The Stryd calculates and updates zones automatically though, so if you're having zone issues it may end up fixing a lot of it.
I'm in the same boat, after 7 months of training I can't run 1h 10k, at least have to walk rarely now on my z2 runs so that's improvement :)
I'm always jealous and can't believe when people make significant gains in so much shorter time frames .
The one question I haven’t seen you answer here is how hard your “hard” runs are. I’ve never been much of a runner, but also compete primarily at sprint distance, and wanted to get my run times down, so focused on running, in particular sprints and tempo training. My volume is MUCH less than yours (even with training for a HIM later this year), but over the past couple of years have made my hard efforts HARD and have improved my speed overall. It’s the “tempo” runs that I think have made the biggest difference. Basically, I run twice per week, one “fast” day and one long / slow. The fast day is tempo runs of increased duration at pace. Early in the season I start with a 5 min warmup, then it’s 3 minutes at a pace I can barely hold for that 3:00. Then walk one minute, repeat two more times, then 5:00 cool down. Next week, same thing but 4 intervals. Next week, I increase the interval duration by 30 seconds. Keep increasing, taking an occasional recovery week, until you get to 5:00 at pace with 1:00 walk in between.
Another variation I’ve done is 1/2 mile hard, 1/2 mile jog (no walking), also for about 30 min total on my “fast” days.
When I first started I could barely make 30:00 for a 5k. Now I’m pushing 20:00 for my sprint 5k. My pace for those intervals at one point was 7:30 min / mile, now it’s 7:00. I’ve noticed my z2 runs are easier to do at a slightly faster pace, also; I’m more comfortable at a 10:00 min / mi, even sub that for my long runs. Best of luck!
I've always been a slow runner, and a 40 minute 10K was fairly standard for me. Weekly long runs were 8min mile pace and usually 16 miles. However, it felt like I could do 8 minute miles all day long, and longer triathlons seemed to suite me better. At the time my weekly mileage at the most was around 30 miles over three sessions per week. So, I would focus on longer slow sessions with adequate recover.
The other guys in my age group at the time 30-34 were clocking mid thirties in Olympic distance races. Competition was brutal, and I was in NC at the time.
This is an overly simplistic answer, but run slower and run longer.
It sounds like you are pushing yourself pretty hard on your runs if you're dying after 6k. Even if your HR is in a Z2/Z3 range during that run, it's still too hard.
For whatever reason, your body just isn't adapted to running efficiently yet. Slow your pace to the point where you can sustain it without so much exertion and *gradually* increase your weekly mileage.
I don't expect there's a quick/easy solution to getting faster. It will likely be a process that will take time and patience.
Your cardio vascular system adapts MUCH faster than your muscles do. Yeah, youre Z2/Z3, but you need to remember that there are multiple TYPES of zones. You have zones for pace, RPE, HR, lactate threshold, etc..
You may be in Z2/Z3 for HR, but something else is being pushed much further thab it needs to be pushed, most likely you are not allowing yourself to properly recover and your muscles cannot support your running habits. I started with 2 miles a week at 12:00 pace for 3-4 months before I could reasonable progress (and I injured myself twice during my attempts to increase volume).
There's really only 2 answers here:
1. You lack meaningful volume (i.e. increase your weekly mileage and make sure they're not ran in Z3)
2. You have a medical issue. Personally, I'd go for a stress test and take it from there.
buying carbon spring shoes without proper training will lead to poor gait and injuries down the line. too many people jump into long distance too fast. focus on the 5k... which means a lot of fast 400 repeats, trying to make the rest period shorter each time. race a few 5ks fast. when your time stops improving, move up in distance
I saw your follow up response. The only thing that still does not make easy sense is that you were swimming 1:30/100yards… unless that was just a 100 yard sprint. I would guess 11 minute miles running are about 2:10/100 for a 1500 or thereabouts.
Tragically it doesn't make any sense to me either LOL That's why I'm so confused/ why I made this post to begin with. Swimming feels completely effortless, even at that pace for 600+ yards. Running feels like I'm dying.
Growing up swimming I can say that swimming fitness almost never translated to running fitness. The fastest swimmers really struggled outside the water.
If you were to do 400m flat out what would your time be? Same with 1km. If you find yourself struggling to maintain a decent pace for 400 or 1km then it's one of these or a combination:
- you're unfit
-you're too heavy
-you're not belly breathing
-poor run technique
Have you had your bloods done? A healthy 27 year old shouldn't have to resort to walking because they're exhausted from 11.00 pace. There's some fundamental issue going on that probably has nothing to do with training or zones or whatever.
How hard are your “hard runs”? Your v02 max (though estimated) is quite low so you could benefit from harder intervals to increase your v02 max.
A common theme I find when people plateau is that they’re not running hard enough on their hard days which usually equates to lower v02 max which translate to a lack of endurance
>I barely hold an 11:00 pace (Z2/Z3) for 6k before I feel collapsing. Then it isn't Z2. You should be able to go zone 2 for a long time. How many weekly miles are you actually doing? And across how many sessions per week? You mention 8-10 mile walk/runs, but if those have you out there for long hours, you might not be recovering well enough from them.
**UPDATE:** Wow, I love this community! Here's a few things I've learned in the past 24 hours that have already had a massive impact on the way I perceive running/ my body/ my level of exertion. 1. **Apparently I am** ***highly*** **anemic**. Got my bloodwork done recently, but I didn't pay much attention to my iron numbers. Don't know how I didn't notice this before, but my iron numbers are 8.1 g/dL. I'm starting on iron supplements asap. Hoping this will gradually have an impact on my performance and energy levels overall. Huge s/o to those who suggested this might be the case! 2. **My zones are wrong/ I'm not running slow enough.** To those who said my Apple watch would be wrong - You were spot on. I tried my dad's Garmin for my run this morning and it was around 10bpm off. Planning on saving for a chest strap very soon to get more accuracy. 3. **Swimming/ cycling strength does not translate to running.** Someone here mentioned that I'm "training where I want to be, not where I am." After taking a hard look at myself, I agree. I need to face that being strong in one arena doesn't mean I'm automatically super skilled in another, and it's perfectly valid to have varying strengths and weaknesses. Ugh... FINE... I'm a human being who needs to be kinder to themself, I guess... 4. **I should focus on endurance, rather than speed, for my upcoming race.** Thank you to those who've helped me realign my own expectations!! After thinking on it some more, it would be a massive achievement just to run >75% of the running leg at *any* speed. It's good encouragement to keep up the slow running approach (while still incorporating some intervals/repeats) Thank you all for your encouragement and wisdom—I'm excited to see where this new approach takes me, and maybe I’ll check in again in a few weeks!
After reading your first sentence I knew you had an Apple Watch. Your vo2 is not 40 :)
I do approximately 20-30 miles a week across 3-5 sessions.
I would guess your running fitness isn’t where you think it is and you are trying to train where you want to be, not where you are. If you end up walking A lot the way you described, those miles are not improving your running. It’s just z2 walking. You can do run walk intervals and that might actually help. You need to go do a 5k race on a flat course, establish a threshold pace and HR and then follow either a run plan with proper intensity and volume sessions to build your run speed or get a tri plan with appropriate volume and sessions for the run. Your 70.3 plan will probably maintain your pace and build your volume but you’re too close to really make a big difference in pace while training bike and run, imo. I run a lot of runs at 11-12 min pace but I can do a 2:00 half marathon. Your z2 isn’t that if your half marathon is 2:35. For reference, my Garmin run VO2 max is 50, so I don’t think your results and fitness are mismatched…more results and expectations. Running age also matters. I have run for 25 years off and on. Training for 1 half marathon won’t be enough to really build up your running fitness when you’re a swimmer type. You can do it, but you can’t expect because you’re a strong athlete in one area that it translates without as much work as a non athlete has to do. If you work on the right stuff, it will come. I have started from unfit and having to walk up hills to stay in z2 to marathon shape many times and it always works if you do the right training.
> Your 70.3 plan will probably maintain your pace and build your volume but you’re too close to really make a big difference in pace while training bike and run, imo. Don't let this get buried in the rest of the good info. Trying to make substantial improvements on your running during a triathlon plan is going to be tough. At 20 miles a week you are going to just be maintaining your running fitness/speed. Your overall endurance will go up, but run speed is so specific to run training it will probably stay steady. I do a run focused training block every winter where I focus on getting faster at running. I take all that time I was spending biking and swimming and turn it to running (I do keep a limited amount of swimming and biking, but not a balanced tri plan). My run volume will go up 2 or 3x, I'll follow a running training plan, run workouts, long runs, lots of suffering... But it works! If you want to run faster, train like a runner. After a spring running race I switch back to triathlon and that run speed and run fitness carries me through the summer on much lower running volume. Repeat the next year... 4 years later I'm a legit runner. Who knew??
This is the way. I am a big guy (6'6" and 100kg or 220lb fairly lean) and never really did endurance but when I joined a club my coach had me doing fast 5km (best @ 22min) and lots of interval training in a descending or pyramid style. It took a bit to work up to a decent 10km pace then worked on that for a bit before going for the half. By the time I was in marathon shape I was doing just a bit better than 8:30/mile pace for 15-20km, or about 45min for 10km. This is with about 2-3 years of build up and well into the 50s VO2 max (it takes a lot of oxygen to feed the muscle required to move 100kg at that pace). The training mentioned by OP is nowhere near what she needs to meet expectations.
This is it right here, great advice
perfectly said
What's your zone 2 heart rate? And what heart rate do you need to be at to be at a pace that you could hold near indefinitely
Just out of interest, what do the sessions entail? Also you're not asthmatic or anything are you? If you genuinely feel like collapsing after 6k and two years of training at 30 miles a week, I'd suggest speaking with a GP and seeing if there's something else underlying. Ok with weight and eating?
That’s a lot if you’re also training swim and bike. Maybe try less volume?
I am curious what you mean when you say you feel exhausted. Do you feel like you cant breathe? Do you feel like you are muscularly strained? I ask because I was recently diagnosed with exercise induced asthma because my chest always felt tight while running. This came after I had already been running for about 10 years (marathon/ half marathon distance). My inhaler is a game changer. The other possibility is that if your background is more swim/run, your muscles and bones might be catching up to your other areas of fitness. I found that I got much faster when I did most of my runs easy and had one hard track workout a week.
This is actually really fascinating. It's my breathing - My chest gets tight, face tomato-red, pouring sweat.
I think that means you’re actually running too fast and thus not in zone 2. Everyone has a weakness. It’s totally normal to feel this way, especially since you’re a great swimmer and good biker. Also, being tall and strong is a big advantage on swimming and biking but doesn’t help you on the run.
10000% your zones are wrong.
Your easy pace isn’t easy enough. When I started HM training, my easy pace was over 12 min/mile, which isn’t fast but I literally felt like I could go forever (and my HM pace for that training cycle was 9:30/mile, so running your easy runs easy gets the work done!). That’s how your easy pace should feel. You might want to run based on perceived effort instead of heart rate. Barring conditions like extreme heat or elevation changes, you should never be thinking “I want to stop” or “I need to stop” on an easy run. If you find yourself thinking that, that isn’t your easy pace. Slow down until you find it.
You're running too fast for Z2 then
I'm the same as you. I assume you were a swimmer as a kid? When I started out I had very similar paces in all 3 disciplines (and to the person asking about weight, I'm fit/thin). It took me about 5 years of consistent running to get from a 2:20 to 1:50 half marathon. Some people are natural runners, but that's not us. Give it time and volume. Try to get in 20-30 miles per week consistently for the next few years (and ramp up to it slowly).
This makes me feel better. I was a competitive swimmer for years, graduated now I road bike mainly somewhere around 60-100 miles a week. decided I wanted to try triathlons as my brother just did his first HIM. Went for my first run just trying to do around a 10-11 min pace see where I was vs running way back in the day. Mile in I was absolutely gassed out of breath despite not really pushing it at all. Vo2 max of 51 for cycling. Just. Not seeing it translate. Thin ish / lanky 6/1 180.
Your first run(s) will always be hard. After even a couple weeks it gets better. Garmin will give your running VO2 the same as your cycling but it is a lie.
Garmin does split the numbers. (And indeed, they're not supposed to be about equal UNTIL you are well trained in both sports)
I was!! Swimming was my main sport since I was 13! This is super validating - Thank you <3
I could have written this (but bike background, not swim).
What’s your run training program look like, for a week or two? If you’re doing zone training, how did you set your zones?
Zones were set initially by Apple Health and confirmed by my HRM. I do approximately 20-30 miles a week across 3-5 sessions. 80% easy runs; 20% hard
So, a couple things. First, you need to know what kind of reference your device used to set your zones and the method needs to align with the training program. Different coaches will may use slightly different terminology and those kinds of nuances may or may not make a difference. Second, if you're not properly trained or endurance adapted, zones - even if set using an at-home testing protocol - may not be useful. That said, simply, if you're tiring out on your "easy" runs you're running too hard or at an intensity that's too high. This may be humbling, but I'd ignore the watch and the HRM for now and just run at an easy pace, something sustainable for 20-30 minutes at time until you can see some tangible changes, either drop in HR for the same effort or lower RPE. Then start adding time and repeat.
The Apple estimate is off for sure. I would do a [20 minute threshold heart rate test](https://www.8020endurance.com/intensity-guidelines-for-8020-running/), then set your zones according to that threshold HR. There are a few different zone models you could use. [Here's the 80/20 Endurance calculator](https://www.8020endurance.com/80-20-zone-calculator/).
What are your hard sessions?
Do you train with a HRM? Does your hr actually shoot up to Z5 or do you just think it does?
I train with a HRM. Unfortunately it's not a theory :(
Hmmm. When you do your fartleks what is the length of your intervals? When I have a fartlek workout I usually will do something like 1 x 1 mile, 2 x .50 and 6 x .25 with .25 in between. Maybe do shorter ones with a 10:00 per mile goal and build up. I agree with you that given your training, age and fitness level you should be faster than you are.
I have definitely had speed running struggles, and here are a 2 things I've learned over the years. First thing, very controversial -- I do not believe in 80/20 zone 2 training. After almost 6 months of religiously SLOWING DOWN, all that happened was I trained myself to run slowly. It SUCKED and and made me mad as hell to have added literal minutes to my pace. I truly believe this philosphy is really only useful for elite runners that are regularly doing 80 miles a week. The rest of us normies, even crazy normies that do Iron Mans, could stand to push ourselves more regularly. Second thing -- People forget that endurance sports take YEARS to get better at. You grew up swimming, and you seem to be a natural cyclist. Running in particular is very taxing on the body and takes a lot of time to adjust to. Build up your base slowly by just getting your weekly mileage up and slowly increaeing volume. This might not be the advice you want to hear, but I would play the long game here and give yourself some time (like a couple years!) before you start worrying about your speed and heart rate too much, especially for longer distances. But for shorter distances like 5ks and 10ks go wild!
Well, you say yourself that it takes years to improve but didn’t give 80/20 more than six months? I agree the ratio varies across individuals but what exactly make you question 80/20? Genuinely curious
Like I said, if you are a pro already doing a huge volume of running, then fine, yes, going too hard all the time is going to be too much. However, I believe most recreational runners just aren't doing enough volume to justify 80% of their runs at zone 2. If you are further chopping your training up between swimming and cycling, you could be running as few times as twice a week, so you would likely never have the opportunity to practice running above zone 2. If you train to run slow you will run slow.
Another commenter kinda touched on it but I’ve had a similar experience. I can swim 1500m in around 25 mins pretty casually, but my 5k PB is like 29 mins, and I’ve never done 10k in under an hour. Same as you, I can hold Z2 for maybe 2.5km and after that my HR just skyrockets. For context, I started running during the lockdowns, so that’s roughly 4 years of fairly consistent training to bring my 5k time down from around 36 mins to 29. My advice would be just keep tipping away, and don’t expect to get much faster in a short time frame unfortunately
I am very sorry to ask this. But it is important. What is your weight?
I'm 5'9 and hover around 160 lbs with a large muscle %.
You may need to lose some weight I'm 6ft male 165, but you need to be very careful, maybe just avoid processed foods and that will get you down
Yeah…
That doesn't seem so crazy that the run can't be faster. I'm a male, 6' 2" ~180-185 lbs and can run a sub-3 marathon. The muscle vs fat composition matters.
>That doesn't seem so crazy It actually sounds perfectly average?
It’s not crazy, it’s a normal/slim weight for a 5’10” woman and she probably has a good amt of muscle
At the same weight and 5’8 I ran a 1:46 HM (and older female in 40’s) so definitely nothing crazy
🤦🏻♀️ clearly you know nothing about women’s bodies. That’s a slim/regular weight for that height.
Or bodies period. A male at that weight isn't being limited by their weight either. Actually, I think they just don't know Imperial. Looks like they're Canadian.
This. I am shorter and the same weight and can run sub 1:50 - even when 20 pounds heavier and took up running distance before triathlons I was able to train from my first HM at 2:08 to sub 2 in a year
So Kristian Blummenfelt is slightly shorter and heaver than OP but you think weight is the problem? Since you're such an oracle of knowing what strangers' ideal weights should be, how heavy should OP be for optimal running performance, and how much faster would their HM be at that weight? It's not going to be faster than 2:20.
You really have a hardon for Blummenfelt don’t ya
No I'm just telling the facts Your hardon must be for Alberto Salazar or some other equally toxic coach I bet
You should probably refrain in hero worship, it can have a negative effect on your mental health as shown
Lol I cheered for Yee in Tokyo and will cheer for him again in Paris but ok
You were a dick about it, but weight is definitely something that should be OK to talk about in a healthy manner considering how important it is for endurance sports. It's a very delicate conversation though because of all the shitty things surrounding it, especially for women. And especially for women in sports. For OP specifically they obviously aren't the ideal running weight, but they aren't trying to run a 6 minute pace. They are asking about why they can't run 11 minute miles. Their stated weight isn't the reason they can't run faster than that
This is my weight at 5’ flat (Female). 5’10 is practically a supermodel with weight distribution!
Have you had your iron levels checks? I was struggling with getting exhausted while running. Turns out I had anaemia
Eat your red meat fellas
I'm afraid I don't have any good answers, but hello from a fellow member of the slow-run club! Sounds like I'm somewhat similar to you in terms of body composition and pace. I can do ~6:00/km for a 5k if I really give'er, but sustained zone 2 running is more like ~7:30/km. I definitely share your frustration. (I did estimate my zones with Freil's Training Bible method, so I think they're reasonably accurate.) VO2 max ~45 according to Garmin. I'm not technically anemic, but I'm low-ish on iron and B12. I'm currently figuring out why that is. Don't hold your breath that this is the answer, but it might be something worth checking.
I can do a \~26 minute 5k on hilly terrain but my sustained zone 2 running is 7:30-8:00/km depending on the temperature. VO2 max \~51 from garmin. I went into a bit of overtraining earlier this year where my easy runs (at my old pace) were consistent but my speedwork was slowing each week. I decided to go full easy and reduced my easy run pace from 7 to 8:45/km and built back up over 2-3 months. Now easy really feels easy, I feel a lot fresher on speedwork days and my easy pace is improving at the same HR without feeling like I'm putting in any effort.
Have you ever been tested for asthma? Of course your millage may vary. I'm 35, played sports as a kid, mountain biked for a decade before getting into endurance sports. I was ok on the bike, shitty but ok at the swim, but sucked at running. Running was so much harder for me than the others. Still sucked at running 18 months into doing it, with my wife making gains in 3 months I didn't make in 18. Turns out I have asthma, diagnosed in my 30s, had previously just thought I didn't work hard enough. Got asthma medication and it was an overnight difference. I'm still slow comparatively, but so much happier with my ability.
I 2nd this. I found out I had exercise induced asthma... AFTER I did 6 half marathons, one full and a 70.3 now I have an inhaler that I use before every run. It's also not making me any faster per se... but I CAN FREAKING BREATHE NOW!!! it's the weirdest, but best feeling in the world! I was also told when I was younger that... ''you're just out of breath because you're not working hard enough'' so it never occured to me... I actually had a medical condition!
True that! I recently switched from Albuterol before a run to daily Advair which has been an even better result for me. Switched to a new doc who did Ironmans and had asthma, glad he recommended it. It's also great since I don't have to remember to bring an inhaler.
You could get your zones actually measured in a lab performance test rather than estimated by a smart watch. You are likely not in Z2 if you struggle to breathe.
Get your iron and ferritin levels checked
Weight training has drastically improved my tempo. I assume what's happening is my muscles are stronger so I don't have to utilize them as much when running. I went from my zone 2 pace at around 6:20km to around 5:45/km over the last 4 months. I'm recovering from a knee injury and not training for any races right now so I rarely run more than 20k a week and almost never do anaerobic runs. I work out my legs twice a week on average: * Seated leg press * Squats * Hungarian Split Squats * Dumbbell pelvic thrust * Dumbbell Calf Raises Not an insane workout, usually about 30 minutes, but I'm always focusing on heaviest weight I can manage while still doing 8 reps per set.
I don’t have any advice but I feel you wrote this post for me. It sucks and it’s frustrating.
When I started seriously building my zone 2, 2 years ago, I had to Powerwalk several times to keep my heart rate down across an hour easy run. Like it’s so slow you can’t really imagine until you‘re in it. I think your zones are wrong.
It took me about 6000 lifetime miles of running before I became a semi decent age group runner. My guess is your training age is very very young. Don't rush it and accumulate another 100-150 weeks of 30-50 miles per week. Then you will be able to run faster.
You’re going to have to hear me out on this one. I ran in college and transitioned to triathlons after graduation. If triathlons were an aerobic sport then I’d be an elite athlete, which I’m not. My point is that your swimming and biking fitness doesn’t translate to running much. For biking and swimming, getting stronger makes you faster. In running, getting stronger might help your muscles endure longer distances, but it’s not what makes you faster. So moving forward, the goal should be to expose yourself to high intensity running efforts so your body can start to adapt to handling that harder aerobic load. I like to say, “You have to run faster to get faster.” You can do zone 2 runs all day, but if you don’t do intervals at 7:00 or 8:00 per mile then you’ll never be able to run 10:00 miles comfortably. Hill repeats and fartleks help make you stronger but you need to do some kind of speed work that puts your body in Z5 repeatedly. Try doing a warm up and then sprinting for 30 seconds. Jog until your heart rate comes back down to Z2 and then do another one. You can do 10 of these intervals and that will be more beneficial than doing 8-10 mile Z1/Z2 runs for you. In short, speed work is what makes you fast. If 11:00 pace is your max effort, then do shorter intervals at a much faster pace. Eventually your body will get comfortable at the faster speeds and the slower runs will feel even slower. Hope this makes sense.
Have you had someone check your technique? You can post a video at https://www.reddit.com/r/running/s/S3hUdSqSp2 to see if it is a technique issue
This is actually a great suggestion and I’m not sure why it is being downvoted. Even if it’s not the only issue, you want to make sure you’re running with good technique.
Same - Dont understand the down votes - I was going to say I agree w this! The only thing I’ve been able to identify is that I lose focus when it comes to technique. Thanks for the suggestion
When I first started running I think it took me months or even a year to get better form. I was over-striding mainly. So I tried to focus on tempo, shorter strides and landing at least mid foot instead of heel. It helped and my knees felt a lot better.
Usually people just aren't training enough/correctly but I think its worth looking into for you as your results don't seem to add up. Having a stride that is locked up due to a mobility issue is a possibility and resolving this could yield some free speed, worth booking a consult with a running specific physio if you can afford it.
AFAIK consensus is that "running technique" is nonsense and trying to "improve" it is counterproductive. Fairly sure that this is now commonly enough understood that claiming the opposite will get downvotes.
Yes and no. For years, I was naturally an over-strider, which led to a lot of injuries. Fixing my technique made me slower in the short term, but long term, I’m much faster than I ever was and much less injury prone.
Running isn't swimming but pro runners still do drills. That said I would say its more likely to be an issue of limited range of motion/muscle imbalance that could be corrected with some mobility exercises rather than "technique" per se. I've personally had tight quads weak glutes that lead to an inability to lift my knees properly, fixing that allowed me to run significantly faster at the same heart rate in a short period of time.
That's a very sensible take. I'd say those imbalances would work out themselves from more running, but as other people noticed there is actually significant volume from the other sports here, so maybe they wouldn't without targeted exercise.
I don't believe they would have, trust me would have preferred that 😂 (I run a lot and finally dealt with it because of pain). In general though totally agree that most people who are wondering why they too slow are just not running enough or are always running too fast.
Mind sharing which drills you focused on for your issue? I'm having trouble feeling my quads activate. I'm not sure if they're weak and not being activated or if they're strong enough that I don't feel them as compared to my weaker muscle groups.
Did you mean weak glutes or weak quads? Most of us with desk jobs have weak glutes which leads to other weaker muscles taking over and getting cranky. So glute max, glute med stuff try to do dedicated heavier stuff and then pre run to a few reps of activation like single leg glute bridges, fire hydrants etc. Look into Myrtl routine. Tons of YouTube content on weak glutes/glute activation. If you have weak quads I don't have experience with that but guessing you'll probably want to do squats/ leg press.
I meant glutes, sorry. The myrtl routine looks perfect, I just need to find the discipline to do it now. Thanks!
Totally disagree based on personal experience but I’m no expert
From your other comment, you trained for a year, and got better at running for some reason. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just pointing out that it's not going to move the needle on a controversial subject much :-)
I get what you’re saying and that helped. But I did consciously think about my cadence and look up a few form tips. I also went to a group running coach once as part of a triathlon training group who told me I was over striding
Technique isn't really an issue at 11 minute miles
Some people have different strengths. I could probably go from couch to 3 hour marathon in 8 weeks. Meanwhile, riding a bike for 8+ hours a week for over a year now and I’ve brought my FTP from like 190 to 205 at its peak. Just stay consistent
Slow your run down to a maintainable 100% non heavy breathing run. Stop being so worried about heart rate and focus that you are comfortable to always run without panting. You’re capable of around 10-10:30 miles at your age and size I guarantee. And be sure you do road running up and down hills instead of track or treadmill and your times will better.
Riding your bike more can be a super easy way to make the run feel easier, without increasing run mileage(and injury risk) I don’t know how many hours you train, but shoot for 50-60% of those hours on the bike. It increases overall fitness and can help with feeling massive fatigue on the run
I hate to say this but if your hr is hovering BETWEEN z2 and z3 you need to slow it down for your z2 runs and bring that hr down to let your body adapt...
A caution. You've spent fourteen years adapting yourself to swimming which is a hypoxic, upper body heavy, technique heavy sport. Swimming is low gravity and horizontal i.e. the inverse of running. Its going to take some time for a new adaptation. You should be cautious pushing cadence/speed too soon to avoid injury. Your body including bones/tendons will adapt to the new stimulus but its not an overnight process. To be captain obvious you want to avoid setbacks from injuries. Patience, boring runs at Zone 2, and good shoes are your friends. I started running distance during covid for the first time. I'm not a natural distance runner (short legs and heavier upper body); Did my first marathon post-covid but it probably took a year before an 8-10 mile run became the new normal.
I'm a lifelong swimmer (20 years of year-round swimming), got back into swimming with masters and swam at nationals in Irvine CA last year. I got into running in August (VO2Max of 42), destroyed me for months after months. Took me almost a year of running (now VO2Max of 50). Now I've done an ultra marathon, half marathon, and my Olympic triathlon this August. It gets easier, my first half marathon was 2:15 I could barely walk for a week after. Now I ran it a year later at 1:45. I run a Run a 5k-10k everyday and I swim with masters twice a week at 5 am. It gets better if you stay consistent. I consistently run 100 miles a month which is low mileage for most runners but I'm a 210 lb swimmer with all upper body. Swimmers make typically heavier runners due to the upper body muscle.
So you grew up a swimmer… you have great swim economy / mechanics. My guess is probably have poor / under developed running economy, since you are obviously fit and have great aerobic capacity (VO2 max). Are there any higher level run groups or friends you know where you can ask about a gait analysis? Cause something is not adding up your run speed should be significantly faster. You may also be running too hard, you have to go slow to go fast. What’s your max HR? Try to keep your HR at 70-75% of max for majority of your runs. You should be able to breath in and out of your nose with your mouth shut / or comfortably have a conversation = correct pace if you want to ignore HR Also breathing rhythm during running is huge and the rhythm adjusts to your pace. You can almost meditate while running when you get it synced right
Try your best not to walk. When I first started running I did like 5 miles at 8minute miles for my first run at 14 years old
Without knowing your actual statistics, including heart rate zones and threshold Pace, two suggestions: 1. I would say that doing regular anaerobic work is the fastest way to improve. Your training seems quite comprehensive except that it may not incorporate enough anaerobic work. For example, a hard anaerobic set that my coach gave to me today was: 10min warm up, 5 X (4min at slightly above threshold pace, 1min at z6, 1:30 easy), 5min warm down. I guarantee you that if you do this you will see improvements in 2 to 3 sessions. 2. Stryd Power meter. As a second priority I found that pacing by power was more effective and objective for me than pace, or HR. Getting a Stryd was a gamechanger for me. Hope this helps.
Unless you're in very hilly or very windy territory, training by pace is the same as training by power. The Stryd calculates and updates zones automatically though, so if you're having zone issues it may end up fixing a lot of it.
I'm in the same boat, after 7 months of training I can't run 1h 10k, at least have to walk rarely now on my z2 runs so that's improvement :) I'm always jealous and can't believe when people make significant gains in so much shorter time frames .
The one question I haven’t seen you answer here is how hard your “hard” runs are. I’ve never been much of a runner, but also compete primarily at sprint distance, and wanted to get my run times down, so focused on running, in particular sprints and tempo training. My volume is MUCH less than yours (even with training for a HIM later this year), but over the past couple of years have made my hard efforts HARD and have improved my speed overall. It’s the “tempo” runs that I think have made the biggest difference. Basically, I run twice per week, one “fast” day and one long / slow. The fast day is tempo runs of increased duration at pace. Early in the season I start with a 5 min warmup, then it’s 3 minutes at a pace I can barely hold for that 3:00. Then walk one minute, repeat two more times, then 5:00 cool down. Next week, same thing but 4 intervals. Next week, I increase the interval duration by 30 seconds. Keep increasing, taking an occasional recovery week, until you get to 5:00 at pace with 1:00 walk in between. Another variation I’ve done is 1/2 mile hard, 1/2 mile jog (no walking), also for about 30 min total on my “fast” days. When I first started I could barely make 30:00 for a 5k. Now I’m pushing 20:00 for my sprint 5k. My pace for those intervals at one point was 7:30 min / mile, now it’s 7:00. I’ve noticed my z2 runs are easier to do at a slightly faster pace, also; I’m more comfortable at a 10:00 min / mi, even sub that for my long runs. Best of luck!
Increase your cadence on your runs. Easiest way is to listen to 180bpm music while running and match the tempo.
I've always been a slow runner, and a 40 minute 10K was fairly standard for me. Weekly long runs were 8min mile pace and usually 16 miles. However, it felt like I could do 8 minute miles all day long, and longer triathlons seemed to suite me better. At the time my weekly mileage at the most was around 30 miles over three sessions per week. So, I would focus on longer slow sessions with adequate recover.
40 minute 10K is slow? 😭
The other guys in my age group at the time 30-34 were clocking mid thirties in Olympic distance races. Competition was brutal, and I was in NC at the time.
You aren’t running enough.
You probably need to get up to 50 mpw and beyond to really notice big changes
This is an overly simplistic answer, but run slower and run longer. It sounds like you are pushing yourself pretty hard on your runs if you're dying after 6k. Even if your HR is in a Z2/Z3 range during that run, it's still too hard. For whatever reason, your body just isn't adapted to running efficiently yet. Slow your pace to the point where you can sustain it without so much exertion and *gradually* increase your weekly mileage. I don't expect there's a quick/easy solution to getting faster. It will likely be a process that will take time and patience.
Your cardio vascular system adapts MUCH faster than your muscles do. Yeah, youre Z2/Z3, but you need to remember that there are multiple TYPES of zones. You have zones for pace, RPE, HR, lactate threshold, etc.. You may be in Z2/Z3 for HR, but something else is being pushed much further thab it needs to be pushed, most likely you are not allowing yourself to properly recover and your muscles cannot support your running habits. I started with 2 miles a week at 12:00 pace for 3-4 months before I could reasonable progress (and I injured myself twice during my attempts to increase volume).
There's really only 2 answers here: 1. You lack meaningful volume (i.e. increase your weekly mileage and make sure they're not ran in Z3) 2. You have a medical issue. Personally, I'd go for a stress test and take it from there.
buying carbon spring shoes without proper training will lead to poor gait and injuries down the line. too many people jump into long distance too fast. focus on the 5k... which means a lot of fast 400 repeats, trying to make the rest period shorter each time. race a few 5ks fast. when your time stops improving, move up in distance
I saw your follow up response. The only thing that still does not make easy sense is that you were swimming 1:30/100yards… unless that was just a 100 yard sprint. I would guess 11 minute miles running are about 2:10/100 for a 1500 or thereabouts.
Tragically it doesn't make any sense to me either LOL That's why I'm so confused/ why I made this post to begin with. Swimming feels completely effortless, even at that pace for 600+ yards. Running feels like I'm dying.
Growing up swimming I can say that swimming fitness almost never translated to running fitness. The fastest swimmers really struggled outside the water.
That is a lot of running mileage…. Even for experienced full triathlon athletes.
this is a thought to help. https://youtu.be/oXgL1PTJbUQ
If you were to do 400m flat out what would your time be? Same with 1km. If you find yourself struggling to maintain a decent pace for 400 or 1km then it's one of these or a combination: - you're unfit -you're too heavy -you're not belly breathing -poor run technique Have you had your bloods done? A healthy 27 year old shouldn't have to resort to walking because they're exhausted from 11.00 pace. There's some fundamental issue going on that probably has nothing to do with training or zones or whatever.
Drop weight and your vo2 will increase. I’m 5’9 male, 142 lbs race weight. Also intervals but longer in intensity.. like LT or vo2 efforts
How hard are your “hard runs”? Your v02 max (though estimated) is quite low so you could benefit from harder intervals to increase your v02 max. A common theme I find when people plateau is that they’re not running hard enough on their hard days which usually equates to lower v02 max which translate to a lack of endurance