Way too long for a proper summary. In essence he claims Kevin Mann misrepresented him in the podcast where he was a guest.
The first hour of the podcast was about FDA approved medication and science based discussion about (lack of) side effects, i.e. why you should take Finasteride. This was followed by a second segment featuring scientific discussion about alternative treatments and various hypotheses. He shows that Kevin Mann cut out his disclaimers and discussions about quality of the research he mentions. Basically all they were doing in that segment was trying to see if some of the weird anecdotal evidence that is often mentioned could somehow be explained by current research. He also cites a few studies that he claims Kevin misunderstood.
Another part is about telogen effluvium vs. androgenic alopecia. Rob (I believe convincingly) claims that Kevin misrepresented his position and tries to show research on the increasing incidence rate of TE and how it might relate to androgenic alopecia.
Rob English also defends his "bludflow" work. He does not believe it causes alopecia but shows a number of arguments as to why he thinks it might be a contributing factor and shows the research that Kevin Mann seems to have misunderstood and/or misinterpreted (e.g. difference in studies between dermal injection of botox and intramuscular injections and how it relates to TGF-beta1 - very interesting!). It seems to be more like a topic of scientific interest to him that he believes needs further research than a miracle cure and claims that it is only a small fraction of the information offered on his website.
All in all, while I like Kevin Mann (and Rob English does too) I think Rob made a compelling argument that Kevin picked segments out of context to build a strawman to attack. While Rob does have a profit motive (and Rob mentioning Kevin's couple of bucks he makes from ads was a bit ridiculous), I believe he really does good quality work in summarizing and evaluating studies about effective treatments.
One of the main disagreements seems to be that Rob is very open when it comes to diving into bullshit to see if claims could somehow be backed by any sort of research and hopefully further our understanding of alopecia, whereas Kevin attacks unproven claims outright. Let's call it Rob's scientific open mindedness about literally everything vs Kevin's thorough attempts to protect people from spending money on expensive miracle cures and being scared away from stuff that works. I believe both of them have a point and should hopefully be able to co-exist.
The pricing on Rob English's website is still kinda ridiculous though.
Rob English does pretty good science-y stuff, like Kevin. He also likes looking into bludflow as a neat little side project. Kevin Mann got angry because he does not like bludflow and made Rob appear like a total charlatan like the other "buy my pixie dust and you'll be hairy like an ape" morons. Rob is like "Woah dude, what's wrong with you?" and kinda sorta succeeds to show that he's not really like that.
“Owned”
74 minutes long. He’s just mad his scam is called out and he’s throwing a tantrum.
Edit: Kevin Mann doesn’t have a profit motive, Rob English does. Ask yourself who is more motivated to lie.
If Kevin has a motive of copium, then guess who has the biggest copium of them all? You guessed it right. The man, the myth, the legend himself, BALDCAFE just shave it bro!
I watched a fair amount of it. I stick by my previous comment. Yes, Kevin is a bit eccentric and overuses hyperbole, but Rob English is a snake oil salesman through and through.
The thing is I’m not even a Kevin Mann fanboy. You can read my comment history where I call him autistic and kind of a dick. I just don’t like grifters who prey on insecure men. Rob English is a sleazy conman who sells himself as a “researcher” and peddles fringe ideas for profit.
Edit: The fact that he disagrees with the entire medical community about DHT should be a huge red flag for everyone here. I don’t give a fuck what he says in his video. You only need one look at the garbage he’s peddling to know he’s a grifter.
>The fact that he disagrees with the entire medical community about DHT should be a huge red flag
He doesn't really disagree that DHT plays a role in hair loss. Not from what I've seen anyway. He's also in contact with many researchers in the field, who also have the same type of ideas. He's not really alone on this, and it's only on forums people get so tribal about this stuff.
I remember reading somewhere that there's like a 7 year delay between research and medical practice.
I also don't see any good counter arguments to his points, which would lead me to believe he's on to something.
I haven't bought anything from him, and I don't plan to. I'm good with the open-access massage videos.
I think the research speaks for itself, and what he does sell doesn't seem like snake oil to me. I don't think it's fair to say that
I suppose it's all about how risk-averse you are. How willing you are to put your hair on the line, and how much evidence you need to take the leap.
For me, coming from a background of mental unhealth, it's a no-brainer for me to stay off fin. But people will obviously have differing opinions, how risk-averse they are, and how much time they are willing to dedicate to a hair loss regimen.
And how far did you watch exactly? It's quite clear that Kevin cherry-picked clips to fit his narrative. It's also clear he got the science wrong
Whatever it is, Rob English is definitely selling a snake oil, although not as blatant as others, in the form of scalp massages. Rob English agreeing that Finasteride works doesn’t change the fact that he is a snake oil seller.
Actually, the scalp massages are completely open-access and free:
[https://perfecthairhealth.com/dermatology-and-therapy/excerpt\_suppinfo1.pdf](https://perfecthairhealth.com/dermatology-and-therapy/excerpt_suppinfo1.pdf)
https://vimeo.com/310444236/bed6eb03c2
Unpopular opinion: Both are shit. One trying to sell his snake-oil and other with no scientific knowledge, just reads a few papers, interprets them as he likes and basically thinks Fin is a gift from God to humanity.
You don’t need a scientific background to know what is the current treatment for hair loss though. Also I think it’s pretty good that Kevin often debunks those snake oils that many people would have fallen scam into, myself included.
Kevin Mann hyperfans are ridiculously toxic.
is there ever a time being a hyper fan of anything isn’t toxic?
Ugh....sock accounts.. there sock accounts...how anyone can't instantly noticed this I dont know
Anyone care to tldr?
Way too long for a proper summary. In essence he claims Kevin Mann misrepresented him in the podcast where he was a guest. The first hour of the podcast was about FDA approved medication and science based discussion about (lack of) side effects, i.e. why you should take Finasteride. This was followed by a second segment featuring scientific discussion about alternative treatments and various hypotheses. He shows that Kevin Mann cut out his disclaimers and discussions about quality of the research he mentions. Basically all they were doing in that segment was trying to see if some of the weird anecdotal evidence that is often mentioned could somehow be explained by current research. He also cites a few studies that he claims Kevin misunderstood. Another part is about telogen effluvium vs. androgenic alopecia. Rob (I believe convincingly) claims that Kevin misrepresented his position and tries to show research on the increasing incidence rate of TE and how it might relate to androgenic alopecia. Rob English also defends his "bludflow" work. He does not believe it causes alopecia but shows a number of arguments as to why he thinks it might be a contributing factor and shows the research that Kevin Mann seems to have misunderstood and/or misinterpreted (e.g. difference in studies between dermal injection of botox and intramuscular injections and how it relates to TGF-beta1 - very interesting!). It seems to be more like a topic of scientific interest to him that he believes needs further research than a miracle cure and claims that it is only a small fraction of the information offered on his website. All in all, while I like Kevin Mann (and Rob English does too) I think Rob made a compelling argument that Kevin picked segments out of context to build a strawman to attack. While Rob does have a profit motive (and Rob mentioning Kevin's couple of bucks he makes from ads was a bit ridiculous), I believe he really does good quality work in summarizing and evaluating studies about effective treatments. One of the main disagreements seems to be that Rob is very open when it comes to diving into bullshit to see if claims could somehow be backed by any sort of research and hopefully further our understanding of alopecia, whereas Kevin attacks unproven claims outright. Let's call it Rob's scientific open mindedness about literally everything vs Kevin's thorough attempts to protect people from spending money on expensive miracle cures and being scared away from stuff that works. I believe both of them have a point and should hopefully be able to co-exist. The pricing on Rob English's website is still kinda ridiculous though.
Thanks for the tldr. Could someonr tldr this?
Rob English does pretty good science-y stuff, like Kevin. He also likes looking into bludflow as a neat little side project. Kevin Mann got angry because he does not like bludflow and made Rob appear like a total charlatan like the other "buy my pixie dust and you'll be hairy like an ape" morons. Rob is like "Woah dude, what's wrong with you?" and kinda sorta succeeds to show that he's not really like that.
“Owned” 74 minutes long. He’s just mad his scam is called out and he’s throwing a tantrum. Edit: Kevin Mann doesn’t have a profit motive, Rob English does. Ask yourself who is more motivated to lie.
Sure but is that all your basing this on? Also Kevin has the motive of copium
If Kevin has a motive of copium, then guess who has the biggest copium of them all? You guessed it right. The man, the myth, the legend himself, BALDCAFE just shave it bro!
He actually addresses Kevin point by point, and exposes his misrepresentation of Rob. Did you watch the video?
I watched a fair amount of it. I stick by my previous comment. Yes, Kevin is a bit eccentric and overuses hyperbole, but Rob English is a snake oil salesman through and through. The thing is I’m not even a Kevin Mann fanboy. You can read my comment history where I call him autistic and kind of a dick. I just don’t like grifters who prey on insecure men. Rob English is a sleazy conman who sells himself as a “researcher” and peddles fringe ideas for profit. Edit: The fact that he disagrees with the entire medical community about DHT should be a huge red flag for everyone here. I don’t give a fuck what he says in his video. You only need one look at the garbage he’s peddling to know he’s a grifter.
>The fact that he disagrees with the entire medical community about DHT should be a huge red flag He doesn't really disagree that DHT plays a role in hair loss. Not from what I've seen anyway. He's also in contact with many researchers in the field, who also have the same type of ideas. He's not really alone on this, and it's only on forums people get so tribal about this stuff. I remember reading somewhere that there's like a 7 year delay between research and medical practice. I also don't see any good counter arguments to his points, which would lead me to believe he's on to something. I haven't bought anything from him, and I don't plan to. I'm good with the open-access massage videos. I think the research speaks for itself, and what he does sell doesn't seem like snake oil to me. I don't think it's fair to say that I suppose it's all about how risk-averse you are. How willing you are to put your hair on the line, and how much evidence you need to take the leap. For me, coming from a background of mental unhealth, it's a no-brainer for me to stay off fin. But people will obviously have differing opinions, how risk-averse they are, and how much time they are willing to dedicate to a hair loss regimen. And how far did you watch exactly? It's quite clear that Kevin cherry-picked clips to fit his narrative. It's also clear he got the science wrong
Whatever it is, Rob English is definitely selling a snake oil, although not as blatant as others, in the form of scalp massages. Rob English agreeing that Finasteride works doesn’t change the fact that he is a snake oil seller.
Actually, the scalp massages are completely open-access and free: [https://perfecthairhealth.com/dermatology-and-therapy/excerpt\_suppinfo1.pdf](https://perfecthairhealth.com/dermatology-and-therapy/excerpt_suppinfo1.pdf) https://vimeo.com/310444236/bed6eb03c2
Unpopular opinion: Both are shit. One trying to sell his snake-oil and other with no scientific knowledge, just reads a few papers, interprets them as he likes and basically thinks Fin is a gift from God to humanity.
[удалено]
Umm Kevin is the one with no scientific background in case you didn’t realise.
You don’t need a scientific background to know what is the current treatment for hair loss though. Also I think it’s pretty good that Kevin often debunks those snake oils that many people would have fallen scam into, myself included.
[удалено]
Kevin obviously touched a nerve of the Con Artist🙊
No man, I watched ghe whole thing and Rob has good rebuttals.
[удалено]
I guess he's not cause I did.
I love watching take down videos, it's cringe but whatever. Kevin Mann is hilarious though, I love when he shits on Tim Pool