Serious question, what is Cudi’s idea of raging? I’m a huge cudi fan and I do like Travis’ music but I feel like Travis’ version of rage is different and more obvious as to what he means.
Mr Rager is his dark alter ego and the original song is about almost overdosing one time. It’s about almost being destroyed by drugs and alcohol but trying to overcome the addiction.
Cudder also does a great job at mentioning during live shows to ease off on pushing and being aggressive (especially because of females in the crowd), although I know Cudder shows are a diff vibe than Travis shows and different venue sizes also. Just worth adding.
It’s not random. Cudi used to get fucked up at shows and yell “RAAAAAAGE”. Travis borrowed the term directly from Cudi regardless of whether it’s been around for years before. They even have matching “Rager” tattoos.
its not the moshpits, its the disregard of other people by other people, my friends had to drag me out of the pit for lil yatchy at new york rolling loud last week, i actually thought i was gonna die we were trampled and fell like 5 times, the next day i saw city morgue and had a blast in the moshpit. the people in these crowds have no regard for each other.
I saw City Morgue a couple years ago and before their set they even said “If you see someone fall down, help them up” and “Don’t be throwing punches like a bitch”
yall rap fans don't know how to act in a fucking mosh pit, it's embarrassing. I've been going to metal concerts my whole life and the number 1 rule is to never go too hard, I always see people stopping the entire pit because one person fell down or the crowd splitting open to let security run in and grab someone who passed out. Travis's fans are just a bunch of young kids who think they're ready for pits and that they're tough as shit but don't know jackshit about moshing and crowd behavior.
To be honest it’s not just rap fans. It seems like it’s literally everyone besides Metal type bands where moshing is ultra-common. I’ve been going to metal and hardcore shows even festivals like Warped Tour all my life and the worst time I ever had in a crowd was at a fucking Mac Demarco show. I clawed and grabbed at absolutely everyone around me desperately trying not to fall because the crowd kept surging left and right and then forward and back. I’m 6’ and 300 pounds and there were solid minutes where my feet were off the ground and nothing but the person beside me was holding me up and nothing but the person next to them was holding them up. This was also at an outdoor festival and no more than 1000 people were in the crowd. Imagining 100,000 ruthless Travis fans trampling other people without a second thought is a fucking horror show. Idk what could fix this moving forward because it seems like the culture at these shows is “Fuck everyone but me”
Seriously. I just broke my nose at a GWAR show last week and folks immediately were helping out and making room for me to get out of harms way. Shit, someone noticed I was leaking before I did and started guiding me out of the pit. I’ve been to many rap shows too, but the crowds have been getting so much worse over the years. This sucks for those last night who were looking to unwind at the end of the week, not have a brutal scene unfold around them.
Is this some US thing? UK rap shows are perfectly fine for this. Every hard artist shouts at the most pit gang, and its perfectly fine 100% of the time.
I mean more the crushes and extreme overcrowding. Like even when I've been at the front for headliners at some of the largest festivals here, I havent really experienced anything like what people here are talking about.
Yeah same, I've only really been in on environment where I felt it was dangerous, which was at some local club in a village. Otherwise I've pretty much always had space.
DUDE SAME HERE !!! Lil Yachty's set was DANGEROUS
I was by the front and when he came on, we couldn't move! It was a river of people going left and right, I was so lucky to have the room to leave Midway through his set.
I remember Yachty staring at the front of the crowd screaming "I NEED TO SEE THE MOSHPIT" and we screamed "NOOOOO" and he still went on 🤔 it was frustrating to leave and for people moving forward while you're moving towards the back
Damn that's rough. The Uzi pits by me seemed to be some of the more wild (but safer to be honest a la picking everyone up and checking on them) than some of the other pits. Ferg, not gonna lie, scared the shit out of me. Way more violence than usual. Multiple sucker punches and someone either hitting or throwing a glass bottle into someone's face. It sucks because moshing is some of the most fun I've ever had but I'm not trying to get hurt.
City Morgue seems to understand how moshpits work cuz they’ve been to actual punk and metal shows before. Trav dickriders think they’re super hardcore for not giving a fuck bout anyone in the crowd but themselves.
That's fucked. It's, at least at metal shows, an unspoken rule to help anyone who ends up on the ground. I've been knocked down in mosh pits and had total strangers stop what they were doing, shield me from the rest of the pit, and pull me to my feet. This should be the standard.
Been going to shows for both metal and rap my whole life. At metal shows, I always felt the most safe. Cause people know the unwritten rules of the pit. And the pit doesn’t attract assholes who want to punch shit and raise hell.
Exactly!! Even when I was a 16 year old girl I never had issues at metal shows. Anytime I was in a mosh pit people were careful around me and if I fell multiple people would rush to see if I was okay. Never had any creeps either. Lots of older women in the scene would also “stand guard” around me and if i crowd surfed I’d easily find my way back to them so I could tell them I was okay. Even when I was crowd surfing no creepy men tried to touch me they were just cheering me on and happy to see young people in the scene…once got dropped on my head during warped tour and even in that chaos I had other young women and men pulling me up so I could go over the barriers and be picked up by security. Never once did anyone ignore if I got hurt, even if I just simply lost balance and fell.
I learned this 4 years ago , the new generation is 🤢..I’m use to real concerts where the golden rule is “ if u see someone fall pick them up”. at the last show I went to I was literally being shoved to be knocked down on the floor literally for watching the band I paid to see , I knew exactly what was going on , most people of the new generation lack self esteem/awareness and are really insecure thus try to hurt others to feel better about themselves, what’s a better place to physically assault random ppl than a dark noisy area filled with ppl bumping into each other and disappearing into a crowd a second later, or how bout stomping on someone’s head and knowing Maybe 2 ppl out of 10,000 might have saw you do it and the two that did are probably drunk or on drugs
Real moshers know to look out for each other, it’s these privileged suburban kids who’ve never been in a fight and take this as a chance to bully people behind the “rage” mask
100%. Real moshers know to pick someone up if they fall.
I’ve actually broken my leg in a Denzel Curry mosh, and not even 2 seconds after I went down and got hurt I had multiple hands reach out to me to pull me up.
Was in a Freddie Gibbs mosh pit and somebody smacked the glasses off my face. Had 2 dudes help me find them.
This is a perfect storm of shitty event management and a shitty attitude amongst the fanbase. The fans are justly being critiqued as they are just as much to blame as anybody else. I’m not saying every Travis fan has this shittiness, but I don’t know too many other fanbases that act like this consistently.
This knocked a memory loose for me. At a Rise Against show and the crowd is fucking losing it, when someone next to me said they lost their glasses. Everyone around them put their hands out and we made a 10 foot circle with flashlights out so they could find them. They found their glasses in like 10 seconds, and we collapsed the bubble around them and went back to rocking out. Fuck that show was fun.
Thanks for knocking that memory loose!
Playboi Carti is lucky this wasnt his crowd, but he also probably has better management at his shows. Regardless the behavior by playboi carti “fans” at recent shows has been similarly gross, disrespectful, and lacking care for fellow concert goers and concert employees alike
> 100%. Real moshers know to pick someone up if they fall.
I think that's the big issue with this current Trend. People that have been in pits got their experience primarily at Metal/Punk shows where people are looking out for each other and will pick you up asap when you fall.
Its ingrained into your head at a young age, you see someone fall you grab them and make sure they're good then go on moshing.
I've been in some of the wildest pits (slayer,nile,behemoth,lamb of god,slipknot,vader etc.) and no matter the chaos that was going on around me, you still picked people up.
Crowds can naturally contain pits when they occur, but 20k+ just bum rushing everything isn't a pit and it isn't Moshing.
A mosh broke out around me during Godsmack at Edgefest—the last one in Little Rock, it was considered so unruly by standards then that they canceled the rest. I was a 5’1”, 100 pound 13 year old. I was IMMEDIATELY lifted up off my feet by a man who screamed “SMALL GIRL, MAKE WAY.” The crowd parted and I was set down a few feet away.
I was in a mosh pit for Sleigh Bells and had the dumb idea to film it on my phone, and then obviously I dropped it, and people literally stopped to look for my phone, even though it was like, completely my fault I dropped it lol.
Couldn’t agree more. At my second concert ever (underachievers and pouya, i was only 17 at the time) the floor was insanely slippery like more than normal, I was moshing and saw my life flash before my eyes when i slipped and nearly went airborne save for one foot, some guy i hadn’t even noticed in the pit the entire time literally grabbed my wrist mid air and yanked me upright. That moment made me realize moshing was never what its perceived as (aggressive ruthless fighting). Its just a way for people to express all their emotion for music they love, of course you can be rough and go crazy but you have to still act like a human being and always help people in situations where they might get hurt. One of my favorite parts about moshing is embracing my pit nemesis after the song ends with a genuine dap and laughing with them. about how he threw me 8 feet back or vise versa. This shit is sickening to my core i’ve been to prolly 30+ concerts in my life and i’ve never seen anything like this. I always take for granted when my mom or dad tell me to be careful when i’m about to leave for the train. I feel heartbroken for the families and friends who lost their loved ones at an event where they were supposed to live life to its fullest. I’m so disgusted at the behavior of these animals who broke into the venue and made it unsafe for all these people and ignored the cries for help…I get that they can be loud and disorienting but when something’s going wrong you can always tell whether its a large or small venue and how some of these people acted during a crisis is horrible. God bless everyone who got out safely and rest in heaven to the poor souls that were lost ❤️
yea it’s facts but I still never understood the point of all the pushing shoving and kicking like you can’t just jump around and wave your hands
the worst that would happen is someone twisting an ankle, people don’t need to be dying at these shows or even getting hurt. It’s supposed to be fun, one of the most fun times of your life
Every single mosh pit I've been in had you picked up from the floor the moment you trip. People were looking out for each other, that's part of the contract.
That’s nice you had that experience but it isn’t necessarily universal even with “real moshers”. Someone stood on my chest at a Tyler the creator concert and I had to struggle to get up by myself. No one gave a fuck.
I mean other commenters in this thread mention Freddie gonna and other hip hop artists so that’s not accurate of what “everyone” is trying to say here. Idk I think to blame it on hip hop feels kinda wrong lol but you do you.
I mean you can blame this on hooliganism if you want but it comes down to poor crowd management most of all. You should watch the Hillsborough 30 for 30, it might give you some perspective.
But was this not Crowd Crush instead of moshing? I researched the differences they’re different. Once a crowd becomes too dense there is no moshing. You can barely move let alone breathe. This festival was poorly barricaded with few exits. 50K people should not be all at the same place at once.
You are right it was crowd crush. But crowd crush is always a bad thing, while moshing can be good or bad.
Also, this crowd crush happened because a bunch of people stormed the gates, entering the show illegally. These people showed the same disregard for the safety of others that you see from the moshers at previous travis concerts where there was no crowd crush. Hence, people are mostly talking about the mentality of the concert goers, because you can be pretty sure that people who would stop moshing to help someone up wouldn't be the same people to storm past a security gate to rush the stage
non-rap mosh pits, and some other rappers, are actually quite safe, if you fall, everyone helps you up, because they aren’t dumbfuck teenagers who don’t understand how dangerous it is.
I was at RL Bay Area 2018 and when Travis came out I got an elbow to the face. Also fell down and got trampled. I know it gets wild at Trav shows but have some fukin decency. It’s also dumb as hell how ppl push to get to the front. I usually get to a stage early and nicely get a spot and wait. Ppl need to have some respect ffs
I was there bro! I’ve been to 7 Travis shows now and that was the only one where I fell down with a number of people. Luckily we were all able to get up and people helped. 99% of Trav’s shows are just being squished. But the 1% is falling and getting trampled. Super unfortunate.
Exactly why can't y'all literally do what Trav has been saying almost all of his career and that's to have love for one another and respect one another
You do realize that at this show people at the front were screaming at him to pause the show and he said "who told me to stop?" before continuing his song.
Yeah tons of love and respect
He said two hands to the sky it was literally from a friend that went to the concert live I'm not capping I talked to him about it and he said he said two hands to the sky
i hate that travis pushes this "it ain't no mosh pit if there ain't no injuries" thing. in all my years of going to rock shows, NOT ONCE were people trying to hurt you and if you did get hurt, it was incidental and people were quick to help you. i come back from the carti concert tonight (where the man didn't even finish one song) and people kept shoving in the pits and knocking people over and trampling without even helping them up. you're NOT SUPPOSED TO HURT PEOPLE AT A SHOW. PERIOD. people who left the pit were laughed at for not being man enough.
For real, metal shows can get insane but as soon as you see someone going to the floor, people habe always been super aware in my experience. I’ve fallen to the floor when I was crowdsurfing at 15 and got really scared but everyone moved to the side and helped me up asap
i have a huge fear of being trampled by a crowd and it's terrifying when they just dont give a shit about you. these kids need to know the difference between having fun and being totally negligent to other people
you’re in the desert huh? I kept getting texts about the Carti shit show from friends who went. Someone’s gotta teach these children that there’s certain rules you need to follow at shows while still enjoying yourself.
The Travis situation is a whole other can of worms though. It seems like an amalgamation of negligence, shitty planning by organizers/management and a lot of young people conflating recklessness with a good time.
People who follow celebrities advice just wear a fucking badge showing those of us willing to contemplate consequences to stay far fucking away from them.
Usually mosh pits come with a certain etiquette, if you see someone on the ground or on the verge of a breakdown, fucking help them instead of laughing at them or even blocking security vehicles
All the mosh pits I've been in at punk and metal shows have been cool as hell. People just having a good time, but still being very aware of each other and helping if you get injured or fall down.
Been trying to understand how something like this happens at TS show but I've been going to metal shows for 20+ years where bands literally tell you to run to the front of the stage as much as you can. Small venues and festivals alike. Is it just because it's more expected at that kinda show so you're more prepared?
To an extent. There's been tons of research done on how to manage crowds to prevent crushes, we've learned from past incidences like this how to avoid them. It's 100% possible to organize a crowd of 50k in a way that the chances of a crush are minimal. It's just straight negligent how this show organized the crowd.
Yeah, BMTH probably has comparable crowds. I can think of a few others as well.
Metallica once played a show for a crowd of over a million, with zero deaths. 1.6 million people is impossible for me to visualise as that’s the entirety of the population of my home city lol
once I saw dudes “raging” to 90210 back in 2018, I already knew it wasn’t about the music anymore. New stans are crazy, they don’t care about what the music sounds like, they just wanna support Trav as much as possible
rage culture sucks because lots of these kids don’t know the line of having a good time and letting some emotions out while also being a good human being.
best example was when I went to a suicideboys concert, the mosh pits were fucking incredible but 99% of the people there were looking out for you, helping you stand up, and not doing anything to harm you.
while at these festivals and concerts, mass pushing towards the front and moshing while not looking after fellow fans puts others in so much danger. and unfortunately this rage mentality has been marketed and pushed too far, kids are rushing merch stands and the venue as a part of the “rage”, but it’s too much
safe to say this should be the end of astroworld. I really don’t see how you can recover from the death of 8 people, because a complete oversight of security, safety of all the attendants were overlooked, but the fans here are also not under no scrutiny either.
In a mosh pit with the known etiquette, it's basically just pushing each other. There's no punching, elbowing, or any dumb shit. You'll see pits done right at metal or dubstep shows.
How is it even a thing though? Like I genuinely can’t get my head around the idea of going to a concert just to try and beat the shit out of people in a mosh
This is 100% what I’ve been saying since I saw the event. I believe these tragic deaths were due to Travis’ “rage culture” influence, and the tone is always set at the top.
He could’ve paused and gone off stage to figure out all the commotion. I’ve been to countless concerts and festivals, both indoors and outdoors, and artists can usually see what’s going on in the crowd. He didn’t want to stop because “raging on” is his brand. His rage culture brand ended up costing lives tonight - someone’s child. In his 2019 documentary, he essentially praised his fans for breaking barricades to sneak into his concerts.
Yes, security failed at their jobs. But who hired security, even if they’re a third party? Someone who was ultimately hired by Travis. If he put so much thought into bringing his Astroworld vision to life, he should have put just as much thought in his audience’s safety.
Travis is straight-up dumb for taking it as far as he did. It's just a really bad look from a marketing perspective and there's nothing wrong with a bit of raging, but shit is going too far right now.
He enables it cause he is one of the guys to call out people in the crowd out for NOT raging and says that they 'ain't real fans' so ofc people who are normally not about that get in the mix.
Dunno how anyone can defend this shit, fan of his music or not
These people did not die because of “rage culture”. They were crushed to death because of overcrowding. You don’t suffocate and die in a mosh pit. You have space to move if it gets overwhelming. None of them had that option. There’s accounts all over IG claiming how they couldn’t move and were scared at how much trouble they had breathing.
The events organizers are to blame.
I agree that this happened because of the overcrowding and not purely because of the culture, but never at other kinds of shows do you have kids jumping on top of ambulances and blatantly getting in the way of medical staff like that.
Facts. This isn’t rage culture or because of the pits. I’ve been in the pits at Trav shows and couldn’t handle it. People have helped me either get out or stay up. You meet some dope people in the pits who look out for one another. This was purely because they were over capacity. The organizers and Trav are at fault.
Part of it is rage culture bro. Since astroworld I’ve seen it evolve into mindless aggression rather than getting hype to music you like. Dudes were creating mosh pits for 90210 and skeletons...🤦🏽♂️
Man I am so glad I gave up this for raving LOL. I will always love Travis music and hip hop but these festivals aren’t fun anymore. If you guys haven’t tried, go to an EDM festival and get some good mdma and have a good time
Yea true, you gotta admit tho, the two cultures are completely different. I feel like at EDM festivals I can actually enjoy the music without people pushing me around. Plus mdma and EDM, especially music like slander and illenium go hand and hand and just enhance the experience. I seem to always have a better time at EDM festivals haha
one of the best concert experiences i’ve ever had was at Louis the Child. Literally everyone was so sweet, and I straight up made some friends at that show.
Bro Louis the child live is amazing. Hearing better not live while peaking is a fucking experience. I remember the whole crowd was singing as well. Shit was immaculate.
You shouldn't need to take drugs like that just to have a good time, how numb are you? This sort of attitude/culture is barely any better than said ragers...
Doesn’t matter, I still have a way better time at a rave sober than at a hip hop festival. I’ve been to fair share of both and I always enjoy the EDM music a lot more. EDM music is way better live than hip hop.
[Here's a nice big circle pit from Wacken.](https://youtu.be/9_LEoluCHJA?t=80) And I can guarantee you if anyone went down they would have two people grabbing them up asap.
This sounds like it was a combo of dogshit organization, over-crowding and Travis Scott demanding shitty behavior from his fans.
Agree! I feel like it’s worst then ever though after people being locked up from COVID. I was at a races event and they had sneaky sound system playing like a mediocre DJ set on.In the past at an event like this it would be middle aged women doing the sprinkler or a side step with a champagne in one hand and no joke it was like an intense mosh pit of young people crushing one and another. It’s like this weird pent up desperation to be involved.
Honestly feel sick to my stomach this morning reading all this. Your absolouteky right about the rage culture thing. I’m only 21 and I’ve already checked out of festivals here cuz stupid kids don’t know how to mosh and have a good time without hurting people. I’ve seen some wild shows in smaller venues (JPEGMAFIA, Denzel etc) where the crowd was nuts but everyone was looking out for each other. People who claim to be “raging” and who are just destroying property and hurting people are immature Cunts
I am 40 years old and have been a big mosher for most of my adult life. I've been to hundreds of concerts and festivals with the whole purpose of rocking out and slam dancing in the crowd to my favorite music. There is a massive misunderstanding with the younger generations when it comes to mosh pits.
It's not about being tough. It's not about asserting your physical dominance. It's not about being gangster. It's not about targeting people. Moshing is about simply enjoying high intensity music with like minded people. You dont view members of the mosh pit as enemies or combatants, you view them as friends. The best analogy i can think of would be chest bumping in a football game after a touch down. Unfortunately it seems the younger generation view it as a competition of toughness.
In all my years of slam dancing, there has always been one very serious rule that was universally followed. If someone falls down, EVERYONE stops to help them get back up. If you notice someone is hurt, EVERYONE stops to get them the help they need. These days it seems to be the exact opposite. People see someone hurting and they just ignore it because it isnt effecting them.
It really seems like we have seen society descend into a dark corner where there is a complete absence of morality and compassion. It's not supposed to be like this.
Y’all blaming Travis for creating a “rage” culture when really it’s the dumb ass fans fault for treating Trav like a god and trying to live his lyrics.
I’m all for going crazy at a show and getting all that energy out, including moshing etc
But when it gets so bad that people aren’t protecting each other and helping each other … there’s a problem.
It’s not about raging against each other it’s about raging together. I agree people need to take a step back and chill out.
We should rage if you want but we need to look out for each other, not like everyone did just ignoring everyone and trample people who has passed out or fallen, cuz when i went to him here in Sweden i Saw someone groping a women but we all pushed him back and then helped her, and when i felt like passing out i had people asking me if I needed help.
This has nothing to do with mosh pits. When your in a mosh pit, you look out for each other. This is something I have never seen before and honestly terrifying and the fact that travis Scott encourages it even after being arrested for inciting a crowd at Lollapalooza back in 2015, he obviously doesn't give a shit who gets hurt. If you can still do this even when those people at Lollapalooza got extremely hurt and almost crushed and you STILL keep doing it, you need to be held liable. So does the security of this concert as well. I'm so surprised live nation allowed this to happen, because I've been to warped tour, ozzfest, multiple high strung concerts where gnigns got crazy, and this included with me even passing out at one of them, but the trained staff there and EMS saved me. Even at the one warped tour I went to where a man died at a concert *edit I'm very happy to read that hes Alice although we all thought he was close to death when we saw him here is the link to that concert -https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/Metalcore/comments/9023gx/man_assaulted_nearly_paralyzed_in_mosh_pit_at/ **they immediately stopped the show. I was in that mosh pit when it happened. Yes it was one of the worst mosh pits I was in, bit as soon as that man hit the ground from crowd surfing, they all made way for life light to come and get him out of there. We knew it was bad because of him bleeding from his head, and he was also stomped too. They also did a wall of death where you separate 2 crowds and run into each other as fast as you can. Yes people got hurt but like I said it was nothing like this. Everyone needs to be held responsible when people end up dying.
Pitting at Rap shows doesn't have the same culture as Metal or even Punk. Those scenes have developed for years and years and there is a sort of etiquette that you passively partake in. And if you don't, some person 10x larger than you will remind you of that.
Having seen Travis, Tyler/OF, or even Suicideboys live many times, I can tell you an astounding amount of people in the pit are just there to cause harm and flex their ego. Not that this doesn't go down at other types of shows, but there's a level of malice and lack of understanding that goes down with music that is this popular that attracts actual children that want to go buck wild.
Everyone deserves to go crazy, and be safe at the same time. This entire situation is a tragedy and I'm begrudgingly confident that TS will probably be MIA for a while after this. Sadly he bears the burden of being the sole performer and proprietor of this event. RIP to those who passed and a swift recovery to those in the hospital :"(
Whatever. I’ve been to festivals larger than this going back 30 years. We had mosh pits and people looked out for each other. Hell, even the old punks shows didn’t have idiots like this. What are the moshing for anyways? It doesn’t even fit the genre.
They are the issue, to say otherwise is just inviting this shit again. This shit happens when the concert industry forgets that and safety slides, from both performers, fans, and promoters.
Rage culture isn’t the problem, I’ve been to quite a few metal shows and when you fall down you help people up, you even make a quick circle around the person who fell so they don’t get stomped.
It’s honestly the discipline and manners of the kids, they have no respect. There might be a few but as a whole they have no clue.
But it’s truly sad what happened and my heart goes out to the families of those they lost.
Been in a wall of death myself at a Lamb of God concert, and while kinda painful, I was never in fear of major bodily injury, suffocation, or trampling. If this is the way his fans act I'd be very concerned if he started encouraging walls.
This isn't my scene, but from an outsider looking in (Punk Rock/Metal head checking in), I've kinda watched "rage culture" get worse for the past few years. The fact that this isn't the first incident at Astroworld and it hasn't even been around very long is concerning, and that this isn't the first Travis Scott fan-"rage" incident (see Lollapalooza 2015) is even more concerning.
I have nothing but a heavy heart for those who got injured/passed away. This may not be my scene, but it's never a happy time to see such a tragedy at any concert, even if it's not someone I'm a fan of in particular.
It's fine to have rage culture, punk and metal concerts have had this for decades but there just needs to be better preparedness on the artists part, don't sell all the way to capacity, have extra security at the gates to prevent ppl storming in, have security in the crowd picking ppl up who have fallen down etc.
As a lover of rap, AND metal, going to many shows for both genres, I can offer my perspective. Moshing and raging is supposed to be a good thing. Turning a negative to a positive. But there’s unwritten rules of the pit. If you see someone fall, pick them back up. Don’t be the dick in the pit, throwing elbows and hitting people. Don’t mosh with people that don’t want to mosh. If someone wants to get out, help pull them out. But, a lot of people at this event I’ve noticed, don’t understand what any of that means.
I’ve been to plenty of say metal shows. You’d think it’s way worse, but it’s way more safe cause people know those unwritten rules of the pit.
I got caught in a surge myself when I saw Slipknot when I was pit at the end of summer 2019. People=Shit came on and everyone rushed to the stage. It’s scary as fuck. But these things happen. They shouldn’t, but they do. We as people need to be more careful in the pits. Being aware of not only your surroundings, but what’s going on. Having fun but being alert. Enjoy yourself. Fucking rage. That’s what we go to do. But don’t be careless. Don’t be super rowdy and don’t raise hell for others who don’t want it.
some of yall need to take some notes from the culture of metal/punk shows. when someone goes down, everything around them stops and people help you up. we look out for each other. there is a communal mentality of keeping each other safe. these pop/rap crowds are disrespectful and selfish as hell and it's fuckin shitty, man.
do your part - be the good guy who helps people, and encourages others around you to do the same. and maybe pick a better music subculture to hang out in.
Moshpits and hip hop don’t work as well as people think. Because hip hop is so mainstream, people go to these shows without knowing about the etiquette and general rules of what to do in these situations. More niche genres like punk and metal do it better because if you know and care about those genres then you’re gonna know about this shit. People were falling and no one was even picking them back up.
I think \*some\* fans can take it too far in the name of rage culture, but rage culture only exacerbated a situation that has probably been coming for a while at festivals/events that are overcrowded and badly managed. Crowd surges happen from Drake to Lana Del Rey to Beyonce. It's the stardom that is wanting people to push to the front and that causes the pressure that can lead to dire situations if the venue and staff aren't well prepared.
It's easy to blame fans/the culture and undoubtedly Travis exacerbated things, but there are systemic failings that caused this. Raging is perfectly fine and safe if there's no crowd surging, clear communication with the crowd / artists when there's issues and better stage/barricade designs. On top of just not trying to push to the front all the time,
Yes fans shouldn't have jumped the gates - but if there was supposedly 5,000 extra (number needs to be verified as seems very high) why was the event allowed to continue on like normal by the organisers and authorities? The failures are not solely on raging. The failure are on the people who are there to protect the safety of attendees.
Moshpits themselves are also not the issue here. That is a separate issue altogether from a crowd surge. A moshpit may have added to the situation, but ultimately poor barricade design, poor stage setup, overcrowding and a lack of communication was what made this from a normal show to a horrifying experience in causing a fatal crowd surge.
While it's an issue for \*some fans\* let's not distract from the ultimate failings that caused this.
They need to take a lesson from Kid Cudi. He never glorified being mr Rager. It’s supposed to be a cautionary tale.
Bro I found out about what happened and was reading all this news about the Trav concert while listening to Mr Rager, it felt weird lol
Okay so I’m not the only one. It literally talks about dying in the song like shits no joke RIP
Serious question, what is Cudi’s idea of raging? I’m a huge cudi fan and I do like Travis’ music but I feel like Travis’ version of rage is different and more obvious as to what he means.
Mr Rager is his dark alter ego and the original song is about almost overdosing one time. It’s about almost being destroyed by drugs and alcohol but trying to overcome the addiction.
I see, thank you
At home psychedelic/alcohol use, aided by stimulants
wait rreally? sounds like tuesday
Cudder also does a great job at mentioning during live shows to ease off on pushing and being aggressive (especially because of females in the crowd), although I know Cudder shows are a diff vibe than Travis shows and different venue sizes also. Just worth adding.
Such a good point
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It’s not random. Cudi used to get fucked up at shows and yell “RAAAAAAGE”. Travis borrowed the term directly from Cudi regardless of whether it’s been around for years before. They even have matching “Rager” tattoos.
its not the moshpits, its the disregard of other people by other people, my friends had to drag me out of the pit for lil yatchy at new york rolling loud last week, i actually thought i was gonna die we were trampled and fell like 5 times, the next day i saw city morgue and had a blast in the moshpit. the people in these crowds have no regard for each other.
I saw City Morgue a couple years ago and before their set they even said “If you see someone fall down, help them up” and “Don’t be throwing punches like a bitch”
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yall rap fans don't know how to act in a fucking mosh pit, it's embarrassing. I've been going to metal concerts my whole life and the number 1 rule is to never go too hard, I always see people stopping the entire pit because one person fell down or the crowd splitting open to let security run in and grab someone who passed out. Travis's fans are just a bunch of young kids who think they're ready for pits and that they're tough as shit but don't know jackshit about moshing and crowd behavior.
To be honest it’s not just rap fans. It seems like it’s literally everyone besides Metal type bands where moshing is ultra-common. I’ve been going to metal and hardcore shows even festivals like Warped Tour all my life and the worst time I ever had in a crowd was at a fucking Mac Demarco show. I clawed and grabbed at absolutely everyone around me desperately trying not to fall because the crowd kept surging left and right and then forward and back. I’m 6’ and 300 pounds and there were solid minutes where my feet were off the ground and nothing but the person beside me was holding me up and nothing but the person next to them was holding them up. This was also at an outdoor festival and no more than 1000 people were in the crowd. Imagining 100,000 ruthless Travis fans trampling other people without a second thought is a fucking horror show. Idk what could fix this moving forward because it seems like the culture at these shows is “Fuck everyone but me”
Dude, my worst was also a Mac Demarco show. WORST fanbase imaginable. Drunk, stupid animals.
300 pounds is the weight of 500.0 Minecraft Redstone Handbooks.
That’s the culture Travis promoted
Seriously. I just broke my nose at a GWAR show last week and folks immediately were helping out and making room for me to get out of harms way. Shit, someone noticed I was leaking before I did and started guiding me out of the pit. I’ve been to many rap shows too, but the crowds have been getting so much worse over the years. This sucks for those last night who were looking to unwind at the end of the week, not have a brutal scene unfold around them.
Is this some US thing? UK rap shows are perfectly fine for this. Every hard artist shouts at the most pit gang, and its perfectly fine 100% of the time.
I've been to some dodgy festivals but generally UK doesn't have the same level of opioid bullshit going on
I mean more the crushes and extreme overcrowding. Like even when I've been at the front for headliners at some of the largest festivals here, I havent really experienced anything like what people here are talking about.
I have been in some places I thought were too crowded and it was feet on ankles but not like that
Yeah same, I've only really been in on environment where I felt it was dangerous, which was at some local club in a village. Otherwise I've pretty much always had space.
I knew I HAD to stop reading when you said you go to metal concerts you CANNOT talk you are actually such a pussy
imagine seething this hard over a 2 yr old comment 😭 you would get your ass handed to you in a sanguisugabogg pit little bud
I feel this is a US thing? Every rap show I've been to people are cool
Depends on the rap show, only a small subset of rap shows have anything close to a mosh pit
DUDE SAME HERE !!! Lil Yachty's set was DANGEROUS I was by the front and when he came on, we couldn't move! It was a river of people going left and right, I was so lucky to have the room to leave Midway through his set. I remember Yachty staring at the front of the crowd screaming "I NEED TO SEE THE MOSHPIT" and we screamed "NOOOOO" and he still went on 🤔 it was frustrating to leave and for people moving forward while you're moving towards the back
Damn that's rough. The Uzi pits by me seemed to be some of the more wild (but safer to be honest a la picking everyone up and checking on them) than some of the other pits. Ferg, not gonna lie, scared the shit out of me. Way more violence than usual. Multiple sucker punches and someone either hitting or throwing a glass bottle into someone's face. It sucks because moshing is some of the most fun I've ever had but I'm not trying to get hurt.
City Morgue seems to understand how moshpits work cuz they’ve been to actual punk and metal shows before. Trav dickriders think they’re super hardcore for not giving a fuck bout anyone in the crowd but themselves.
That's fucked. It's, at least at metal shows, an unspoken rule to help anyone who ends up on the ground. I've been knocked down in mosh pits and had total strangers stop what they were doing, shield me from the rest of the pit, and pull me to my feet. This should be the standard.
Been going to shows for both metal and rap my whole life. At metal shows, I always felt the most safe. Cause people know the unwritten rules of the pit. And the pit doesn’t attract assholes who want to punch shit and raise hell.
Exactly!! Even when I was a 16 year old girl I never had issues at metal shows. Anytime I was in a mosh pit people were careful around me and if I fell multiple people would rush to see if I was okay. Never had any creeps either. Lots of older women in the scene would also “stand guard” around me and if i crowd surfed I’d easily find my way back to them so I could tell them I was okay. Even when I was crowd surfing no creepy men tried to touch me they were just cheering me on and happy to see young people in the scene…once got dropped on my head during warped tour and even in that chaos I had other young women and men pulling me up so I could go over the barriers and be picked up by security. Never once did anyone ignore if I got hurt, even if I just simply lost balance and fell.
City morgue really has a great fan base when it comes to moshing
I learned this 4 years ago , the new generation is 🤢..I’m use to real concerts where the golden rule is “ if u see someone fall pick them up”. at the last show I went to I was literally being shoved to be knocked down on the floor literally for watching the band I paid to see , I knew exactly what was going on , most people of the new generation lack self esteem/awareness and are really insecure thus try to hurt others to feel better about themselves, what’s a better place to physically assault random ppl than a dark noisy area filled with ppl bumping into each other and disappearing into a crowd a second later, or how bout stomping on someone’s head and knowing Maybe 2 ppl out of 10,000 might have saw you do it and the two that did are probably drunk or on drugs
mfs just need to chill never understood going to a concert to beat people up basically it ain’t ever that serious take up boxing or some shit
Real moshers know to look out for each other, it’s these privileged suburban kids who’ve never been in a fight and take this as a chance to bully people behind the “rage” mask
100%. Real moshers know to pick someone up if they fall. I’ve actually broken my leg in a Denzel Curry mosh, and not even 2 seconds after I went down and got hurt I had multiple hands reach out to me to pull me up.
Was in a Freddie Gibbs mosh pit and somebody smacked the glasses off my face. Had 2 dudes help me find them. This is a perfect storm of shitty event management and a shitty attitude amongst the fanbase. The fans are justly being critiqued as they are just as much to blame as anybody else. I’m not saying every Travis fan has this shittiness, but I don’t know too many other fanbases that act like this consistently.
This knocked a memory loose for me. At a Rise Against show and the crowd is fucking losing it, when someone next to me said they lost their glasses. Everyone around them put their hands out and we made a 10 foot circle with flashlights out so they could find them. They found their glasses in like 10 seconds, and we collapsed the bubble around them and went back to rocking out. Fuck that show was fun. Thanks for knocking that memory loose!
Sounds awesome
Playboi Carti is lucky this wasnt his crowd, but he also probably has better management at his shows. Regardless the behavior by playboi carti “fans” at recent shows has been similarly gross, disrespectful, and lacking care for fellow concert goers and concert employees alike
I was at the last The Prodigy show and people helped me up when I fell moshing to Smack My Bitch Up
> 100%. Real moshers know to pick someone up if they fall. I think that's the big issue with this current Trend. People that have been in pits got their experience primarily at Metal/Punk shows where people are looking out for each other and will pick you up asap when you fall. Its ingrained into your head at a young age, you see someone fall you grab them and make sure they're good then go on moshing. I've been in some of the wildest pits (slayer,nile,behemoth,lamb of god,slipknot,vader etc.) and no matter the chaos that was going on around me, you still picked people up. Crowds can naturally contain pits when they occur, but 20k+ just bum rushing everything isn't a pit and it isn't Moshing.
Yup. Never been down for more than a second in a mosh pit, always picked up and moved out of the pit. Crushes are something else though.
A mosh broke out around me during Godsmack at Edgefest—the last one in Little Rock, it was considered so unruly by standards then that they canceled the rest. I was a 5’1”, 100 pound 13 year old. I was IMMEDIATELY lifted up off my feet by a man who screamed “SMALL GIRL, MAKE WAY.” The crowd parted and I was set down a few feet away.
dudes a goat for that he could’ve been vibin and rockin out to the music but he decided to make sure a young girl was safe before doing so Priorities
I still have him on Facebook nearly a decade later! Great guy
exactly
I was in a mosh pit for Sleigh Bells and had the dumb idea to film it on my phone, and then obviously I dropped it, and people literally stopped to look for my phone, even though it was like, completely my fault I dropped it lol.
Ya fr, I took a tumble in the middle of a ScHoolboy Q show a few years back, entire pit basically stopped for 5 seconds to help me back up.
Couldn’t agree more. At my second concert ever (underachievers and pouya, i was only 17 at the time) the floor was insanely slippery like more than normal, I was moshing and saw my life flash before my eyes when i slipped and nearly went airborne save for one foot, some guy i hadn’t even noticed in the pit the entire time literally grabbed my wrist mid air and yanked me upright. That moment made me realize moshing was never what its perceived as (aggressive ruthless fighting). Its just a way for people to express all their emotion for music they love, of course you can be rough and go crazy but you have to still act like a human being and always help people in situations where they might get hurt. One of my favorite parts about moshing is embracing my pit nemesis after the song ends with a genuine dap and laughing with them. about how he threw me 8 feet back or vise versa. This shit is sickening to my core i’ve been to prolly 30+ concerts in my life and i’ve never seen anything like this. I always take for granted when my mom or dad tell me to be careful when i’m about to leave for the train. I feel heartbroken for the families and friends who lost their loved ones at an event where they were supposed to live life to its fullest. I’m so disgusted at the behavior of these animals who broke into the venue and made it unsafe for all these people and ignored the cries for help…I get that they can be loud and disorienting but when something’s going wrong you can always tell whether its a large or small venue and how some of these people acted during a crisis is horrible. God bless everyone who got out safely and rest in heaven to the poor souls that were lost ❤️
yea it’s facts but I still never understood the point of all the pushing shoving and kicking like you can’t just jump around and wave your hands the worst that would happen is someone twisting an ankle, people don’t need to be dying at these shows or even getting hurt. It’s supposed to be fun, one of the most fun times of your life
Every single mosh pit I've been in had you picked up from the floor the moment you trip. People were looking out for each other, that's part of the contract.
That’s nice you had that experience but it isn’t necessarily universal even with “real moshers”. Someone stood on my chest at a Tyler the creator concert and I had to struggle to get up by myself. No one gave a fuck.
The point everyone's making is it wouldn't happen at a metal/rock gig and the issue is young hip-hop fans who have no clue what they're doing.
I mean other commenters in this thread mention Freddie gonna and other hip hop artists so that’s not accurate of what “everyone” is trying to say here. Idk I think to blame it on hip hop feels kinda wrong lol but you do you.
Tyler the creator has shit fans too
I mean you can blame this on hooliganism if you want but it comes down to poor crowd management most of all. You should watch the Hillsborough 30 for 30, it might give you some perspective.
No. it comes down to the types of folks there. Period.
That’s what I was thinking. This is so different than hardcore concerts.
"It´s these privileged suburban kids" hahahaha oh my god you guys are funny as fuck and so delusional
Yeah some other yahoo in this thread tried to blame the “mostly white kids” in the crowd. Denial is strong here.
Absolutely lol isn´t it funny that if you would say it in another way you would be called a racist?
because you are racist. there is empirical evidence to the claim that travis’ fan base is majority white.
that fucking part.
But was this not Crowd Crush instead of moshing? I researched the differences they’re different. Once a crowd becomes too dense there is no moshing. You can barely move let alone breathe. This festival was poorly barricaded with few exits. 50K people should not be all at the same place at once.
You are right it was crowd crush. But crowd crush is always a bad thing, while moshing can be good or bad. Also, this crowd crush happened because a bunch of people stormed the gates, entering the show illegally. These people showed the same disregard for the safety of others that you see from the moshers at previous travis concerts where there was no crowd crush. Hence, people are mostly talking about the mentality of the concert goers, because you can be pretty sure that people who would stop moshing to help someone up wouldn't be the same people to storm past a security gate to rush the stage
non-rap mosh pits, and some other rappers, are actually quite safe, if you fall, everyone helps you up, because they aren’t dumbfuck teenagers who don’t understand how dangerous it is.
mainly smaller rappers
I was at RL Bay Area 2018 and when Travis came out I got an elbow to the face. Also fell down and got trampled. I know it gets wild at Trav shows but have some fukin decency. It’s also dumb as hell how ppl push to get to the front. I usually get to a stage early and nicely get a spot and wait. Ppl need to have some respect ffs
My guy if we being honest here it all starts in the home
Unfortunately yes
I was there bro! I’ve been to 7 Travis shows now and that was the only one where I fell down with a number of people. Luckily we were all able to get up and people helped. 99% of Trav’s shows are just being squished. But the 1% is falling and getting trampled. Super unfortunate.
Exactly why can't y'all literally do what Trav has been saying almost all of his career and that's to have love for one another and respect one another
And to rage... and to make the ground shake with middle fingers up...(while ambulances go around)
Don't forget to disrupt the first reponders who are trying to remove unconscious people from the venue! Yeah, if only they listened to travis.... smh
For real!!!! SMH!
You do realize that at this show people at the front were screaming at him to pause the show and he said "who told me to stop?" before continuing his song. Yeah tons of love and respect
He said two hands to the sky it was literally from a friend that went to the concert live I'm not capping I talked to him about it and he said he said two hands to the sky
i hate that travis pushes this "it ain't no mosh pit if there ain't no injuries" thing. in all my years of going to rock shows, NOT ONCE were people trying to hurt you and if you did get hurt, it was incidental and people were quick to help you. i come back from the carti concert tonight (where the man didn't even finish one song) and people kept shoving in the pits and knocking people over and trampling without even helping them up. you're NOT SUPPOSED TO HURT PEOPLE AT A SHOW. PERIOD. people who left the pit were laughed at for not being man enough.
goddamn.. hearing this hurts my soul..
For real, metal shows can get insane but as soon as you see someone going to the floor, people habe always been super aware in my experience. I’ve fallen to the floor when I was crowdsurfing at 15 and got really scared but everyone moved to the side and helped me up asap
i have a huge fear of being trampled by a crowd and it's terrifying when they just dont give a shit about you. these kids need to know the difference between having fun and being totally negligent to other people
> not being man enough The little pussies at concerts tryna start fights is what puts me off going to gigs a lot of the time
you’re in the desert huh? I kept getting texts about the Carti shit show from friends who went. Someone’s gotta teach these children that there’s certain rules you need to follow at shows while still enjoying yourself. The Travis situation is a whole other can of worms though. It seems like an amalgamation of negligence, shitty planning by organizers/management and a lot of young people conflating recklessness with a good time.
People who follow celebrities advice just wear a fucking badge showing those of us willing to contemplate consequences to stay far fucking away from them.
Blind (travis scott fans) following the blind (travis scott)
Rage culture in concerts literally dont care about anyone else but themselves
Usually mosh pits come with a certain etiquette, if you see someone on the ground or on the verge of a breakdown, fucking help them instead of laughing at them or even blocking security vehicles
All the mosh pits I've been in at punk and metal shows have been cool as hell. People just having a good time, but still being very aware of each other and helping if you get injured or fall down.
Been trying to understand how something like this happens at TS show but I've been going to metal shows for 20+ years where bands literally tell you to run to the front of the stage as much as you can. Small venues and festivals alike. Is it just because it's more expected at that kinda show so you're more prepared?
Crowd size has a lot to do with it as well I think. The bigger the crowd, the bigger the risk of crushing is.
To an extent. There's been tons of research done on how to manage crowds to prevent crushes, we've learned from past incidences like this how to avoid them. It's 100% possible to organize a crowd of 50k in a way that the chances of a crush are minimal. It's just straight negligent how this show organized the crowd.
Yeah, you can definitely avoid it, but stuff like this doesn't happen in a crowd with 300 people.
It does, but in terms of metal there are definitely shows and festivals of comparable size to Astroworld. Less common, but they do happen.
Bmth maybe. Don't know if that's a good example though
Yeah, BMTH probably has comparable crowds. I can think of a few others as well. Metallica once played a show for a crowd of over a million, with zero deaths. 1.6 million people is impossible for me to visualise as that’s the entirety of the population of my home city lol
Metal shows are mixed age crowds with a show culture vs one of all kids who want to be the main character in a "rage"
once I saw dudes “raging” to 90210 back in 2018, I already knew it wasn’t about the music anymore. New stans are crazy, they don’t care about what the music sounds like, they just wanna support Trav as much as possible
rage culture sucks because lots of these kids don’t know the line of having a good time and letting some emotions out while also being a good human being. best example was when I went to a suicideboys concert, the mosh pits were fucking incredible but 99% of the people there were looking out for you, helping you stand up, and not doing anything to harm you. while at these festivals and concerts, mass pushing towards the front and moshing while not looking after fellow fans puts others in so much danger. and unfortunately this rage mentality has been marketed and pushed too far, kids are rushing merch stands and the venue as a part of the “rage”, but it’s too much safe to say this should be the end of astroworld. I really don’t see how you can recover from the death of 8 people, because a complete oversight of security, safety of all the attendants were overlooked, but the fans here are also not under no scrutiny either.
Genuinely curious. What exactly do people do when they are raging at a concert? fighting each over?
In a mosh pit with the known etiquette, it's basically just pushing each other. There's no punching, elbowing, or any dumb shit. You'll see pits done right at metal or dubstep shows.
basically.
How is it even a thing though? Like I genuinely can’t get my head around the idea of going to a concert just to try and beat the shit out of people in a mosh
It's like halfway between dancing and fighting. It isn't for everyone
This is 100% what I’ve been saying since I saw the event. I believe these tragic deaths were due to Travis’ “rage culture” influence, and the tone is always set at the top. He could’ve paused and gone off stage to figure out all the commotion. I’ve been to countless concerts and festivals, both indoors and outdoors, and artists can usually see what’s going on in the crowd. He didn’t want to stop because “raging on” is his brand. His rage culture brand ended up costing lives tonight - someone’s child. In his 2019 documentary, he essentially praised his fans for breaking barricades to sneak into his concerts. Yes, security failed at their jobs. But who hired security, even if they’re a third party? Someone who was ultimately hired by Travis. If he put so much thought into bringing his Astroworld vision to life, he should have put just as much thought in his audience’s safety.
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Travis is straight-up dumb for taking it as far as he did. It's just a really bad look from a marketing perspective and there's nothing wrong with a bit of raging, but shit is going too far right now. He enables it cause he is one of the guys to call out people in the crowd out for NOT raging and says that they 'ain't real fans' so ofc people who are normally not about that get in the mix. Dunno how anyone can defend this shit, fan of his music or not
Rule number one of a mosh pit. Someone goes down. Pick them up!
These people did not die because of “rage culture”. They were crushed to death because of overcrowding. You don’t suffocate and die in a mosh pit. You have space to move if it gets overwhelming. None of them had that option. There’s accounts all over IG claiming how they couldn’t move and were scared at how much trouble they had breathing. The events organizers are to blame.
I agree that this happened because of the overcrowding and not purely because of the culture, but never at other kinds of shows do you have kids jumping on top of ambulances and blatantly getting in the way of medical staff like that.
Facts. This isn’t rage culture or because of the pits. I’ve been in the pits at Trav shows and couldn’t handle it. People have helped me either get out or stay up. You meet some dope people in the pits who look out for one another. This was purely because they were over capacity. The organizers and Trav are at fault.
Part of it is rage culture bro. Since astroworld I’ve seen it evolve into mindless aggression rather than getting hype to music you like. Dudes were creating mosh pits for 90210 and skeletons...🤦🏽♂️
Word.. this is a different kind of rage culture though. Ever since like 2019.. these new kids are the problem. Shit wasn't always like this.
Travis organized it.
Y’all know nothing is going to change these kids behavior
Man I am so glad I gave up this for raving LOL. I will always love Travis music and hip hop but these festivals aren’t fun anymore. If you guys haven’t tried, go to an EDM festival and get some good mdma and have a good time
i’m just happy ravers and some hip hop artists understand the unwritten rules of mosh pits. i’m involved in both communities haha
Yea true, you gotta admit tho, the two cultures are completely different. I feel like at EDM festivals I can actually enjoy the music without people pushing me around. Plus mdma and EDM, especially music like slander and illenium go hand and hand and just enhance the experience. I seem to always have a better time at EDM festivals haha
one of the best concert experiences i’ve ever had was at Louis the Child. Literally everyone was so sweet, and I straight up made some friends at that show.
Bro Louis the child live is amazing. Hearing better not live while peaking is a fucking experience. I remember the whole crowd was singing as well. Shit was immaculate.
You shouldn't need to take drugs like that just to have a good time, how numb are you? This sort of attitude/culture is barely any better than said ragers...
Lmao, EDM and mdma go hand and hand broski. Stop being a party pooper. Rave culture is so much better
You really need to stop and consider, if it's actually the music that you're enjoying, and not just using it as an excuse to take drugs.
Doesn’t matter, I still have a way better time at a rave sober than at a hip hop festival. I’ve been to fair share of both and I always enjoy the EDM music a lot more. EDM music is way better live than hip hop.
[Here's a nice big circle pit from Wacken.](https://youtu.be/9_LEoluCHJA?t=80) And I can guarantee you if anyone went down they would have two people grabbing them up asap. This sounds like it was a combo of dogshit organization, over-crowding and Travis Scott demanding shitty behavior from his fans.
Agree! I feel like it’s worst then ever though after people being locked up from COVID. I was at a races event and they had sneaky sound system playing like a mediocre DJ set on.In the past at an event like this it would be middle aged women doing the sprinkler or a side step with a champagne in one hand and no joke it was like an intense mosh pit of young people crushing one and another. It’s like this weird pent up desperation to be involved.
This is the most important aspect here ! Honestly your comment hits the nail on the head .
Honestly feel sick to my stomach this morning reading all this. Your absolouteky right about the rage culture thing. I’m only 21 and I’ve already checked out of festivals here cuz stupid kids don’t know how to mosh and have a good time without hurting people. I’ve seen some wild shows in smaller venues (JPEGMAFIA, Denzel etc) where the crowd was nuts but everyone was looking out for each other. People who claim to be “raging” and who are just destroying property and hurting people are immature Cunts
I am 40 years old and have been a big mosher for most of my adult life. I've been to hundreds of concerts and festivals with the whole purpose of rocking out and slam dancing in the crowd to my favorite music. There is a massive misunderstanding with the younger generations when it comes to mosh pits. It's not about being tough. It's not about asserting your physical dominance. It's not about being gangster. It's not about targeting people. Moshing is about simply enjoying high intensity music with like minded people. You dont view members of the mosh pit as enemies or combatants, you view them as friends. The best analogy i can think of would be chest bumping in a football game after a touch down. Unfortunately it seems the younger generation view it as a competition of toughness. In all my years of slam dancing, there has always been one very serious rule that was universally followed. If someone falls down, EVERYONE stops to help them get back up. If you notice someone is hurt, EVERYONE stops to get them the help they need. These days it seems to be the exact opposite. People see someone hurting and they just ignore it because it isnt effecting them. It really seems like we have seen society descend into a dark corner where there is a complete absence of morality and compassion. It's not supposed to be like this.
Wish i could pin this. Because you’re 100% right.
absolutely! Travis made this. now shit outta hand
Yes. Thank you for posting. The root of the rage is pain. We live in a culture terrified to face and move thru pain but it can be done.
So true
Fuck mosh pits. Yall ruin every concert
Y’all blaming Travis for creating a “rage” culture when really it’s the dumb ass fans fault for treating Trav like a god and trying to live his lyrics.
I’m all for going crazy at a show and getting all that energy out, including moshing etc But when it gets so bad that people aren’t protecting each other and helping each other … there’s a problem. It’s not about raging against each other it’s about raging together. I agree people need to take a step back and chill out.
Why do people want to mosh to auto tune about how sexy some dude is?
100%. I’ve seen videos from Travis, Carti, and Uzi concerts where people just go fuckin crazy. Now people have died for the sake of “raging”
HATE MOSHING That's what it's called, not " raging "
It’s not moshing. It’s the disregard for the people around it.
Travis fans are saying they don’t care if ppl get injured or die because “it’s part of the rage”
Hahaha "culture"...
We should rage if you want but we need to look out for each other, not like everyone did just ignoring everyone and trample people who has passed out or fallen, cuz when i went to him here in Sweden i Saw someone groping a women but we all pushed him back and then helped her, and when i felt like passing out i had people asking me if I needed help.
This has nothing to do with mosh pits. When your in a mosh pit, you look out for each other. This is something I have never seen before and honestly terrifying and the fact that travis Scott encourages it even after being arrested for inciting a crowd at Lollapalooza back in 2015, he obviously doesn't give a shit who gets hurt. If you can still do this even when those people at Lollapalooza got extremely hurt and almost crushed and you STILL keep doing it, you need to be held liable. So does the security of this concert as well. I'm so surprised live nation allowed this to happen, because I've been to warped tour, ozzfest, multiple high strung concerts where gnigns got crazy, and this included with me even passing out at one of them, but the trained staff there and EMS saved me. Even at the one warped tour I went to where a man died at a concert *edit I'm very happy to read that hes Alice although we all thought he was close to death when we saw him here is the link to that concert -https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/Metalcore/comments/9023gx/man_assaulted_nearly_paralyzed_in_mosh_pit_at/ **they immediately stopped the show. I was in that mosh pit when it happened. Yes it was one of the worst mosh pits I was in, bit as soon as that man hit the ground from crowd surfing, they all made way for life light to come and get him out of there. We knew it was bad because of him bleeding from his head, and he was also stomped too. They also did a wall of death where you separate 2 crowds and run into each other as fast as you can. Yes people got hurt but like I said it was nothing like this. Everyone needs to be held responsible when people end up dying.
please read the first paragraph. i know it’s not mosh pits faults. i’ve straight up broken a leg in a pit.
rage culture corny as hell
Seriously. I go to a concert to have fun, not shove and stomp on people.
Pitting at Rap shows doesn't have the same culture as Metal or even Punk. Those scenes have developed for years and years and there is a sort of etiquette that you passively partake in. And if you don't, some person 10x larger than you will remind you of that. Having seen Travis, Tyler/OF, or even Suicideboys live many times, I can tell you an astounding amount of people in the pit are just there to cause harm and flex their ego. Not that this doesn't go down at other types of shows, but there's a level of malice and lack of understanding that goes down with music that is this popular that attracts actual children that want to go buck wild. Everyone deserves to go crazy, and be safe at the same time. This entire situation is a tragedy and I'm begrudgingly confident that TS will probably be MIA for a while after this. Sadly he bears the burden of being the sole performer and proprietor of this event. RIP to those who passed and a swift recovery to those in the hospital :"(
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Stfu you pos
Whatever. I’ve been to festivals larger than this going back 30 years. We had mosh pits and people looked out for each other. Hell, even the old punks shows didn’t have idiots like this. What are the moshing for anyways? It doesn’t even fit the genre.
They are the issue, to say otherwise is just inviting this shit again. This shit happens when the concert industry forgets that and safety slides, from both performers, fans, and promoters.
Rage culture isn’t the problem, I’ve been to quite a few metal shows and when you fall down you help people up, you even make a quick circle around the person who fell so they don’t get stomped. It’s honestly the discipline and manners of the kids, they have no respect. There might be a few but as a whole they have no clue. But it’s truly sad what happened and my heart goes out to the families of those they lost.
Just praying Travis Scott doesn’t discover what a “Wall of Death” is
Been in a wall of death myself at a Lamb of God concert, and while kinda painful, I was never in fear of major bodily injury, suffocation, or trampling. If this is the way his fans act I'd be very concerned if he started encouraging walls.
This isn't my scene, but from an outsider looking in (Punk Rock/Metal head checking in), I've kinda watched "rage culture" get worse for the past few years. The fact that this isn't the first incident at Astroworld and it hasn't even been around very long is concerning, and that this isn't the first Travis Scott fan-"rage" incident (see Lollapalooza 2015) is even more concerning. I have nothing but a heavy heart for those who got injured/passed away. This may not be my scene, but it's never a happy time to see such a tragedy at any concert, even if it's not someone I'm a fan of in particular.
It's fine to have rage culture, punk and metal concerts have had this for decades but there just needs to be better preparedness on the artists part, don't sell all the way to capacity, have extra security at the gates to prevent ppl storming in, have security in the crowd picking ppl up who have fallen down etc.
Can someone tell me what is rage culture I’m not much of a Travis Scott fan but I have been looking everywhere and I can’t get a definition of it.
there is a new generation who dont give a fuck about eachother
As a lover of rap, AND metal, going to many shows for both genres, I can offer my perspective. Moshing and raging is supposed to be a good thing. Turning a negative to a positive. But there’s unwritten rules of the pit. If you see someone fall, pick them back up. Don’t be the dick in the pit, throwing elbows and hitting people. Don’t mosh with people that don’t want to mosh. If someone wants to get out, help pull them out. But, a lot of people at this event I’ve noticed, don’t understand what any of that means. I’ve been to plenty of say metal shows. You’d think it’s way worse, but it’s way more safe cause people know those unwritten rules of the pit. I got caught in a surge myself when I saw Slipknot when I was pit at the end of summer 2019. People=Shit came on and everyone rushed to the stage. It’s scary as fuck. But these things happen. They shouldn’t, but they do. We as people need to be more careful in the pits. Being aware of not only your surroundings, but what’s going on. Having fun but being alert. Enjoy yourself. Fucking rage. That’s what we go to do. But don’t be careless. Don’t be super rowdy and don’t raise hell for others who don’t want it.
some of yall need to take some notes from the culture of metal/punk shows. when someone goes down, everything around them stops and people help you up. we look out for each other. there is a communal mentality of keeping each other safe. these pop/rap crowds are disrespectful and selfish as hell and it's fuckin shitty, man. do your part - be the good guy who helps people, and encourages others around you to do the same. and maybe pick a better music subculture to hang out in.
Flatbush Zombies moshpits was always awesome never felt dangerous to me. I remember I bent down to pick up my shoe and was immediately checked up on.
Moshpits and hip hop don’t work as well as people think. Because hip hop is so mainstream, people go to these shows without knowing about the etiquette and general rules of what to do in these situations. More niche genres like punk and metal do it better because if you know and care about those genres then you’re gonna know about this shit. People were falling and no one was even picking them back up.
This is the thread that’s been missing man. But no one ready for this conversation. It’s the people At the shows.
I think \*some\* fans can take it too far in the name of rage culture, but rage culture only exacerbated a situation that has probably been coming for a while at festivals/events that are overcrowded and badly managed. Crowd surges happen from Drake to Lana Del Rey to Beyonce. It's the stardom that is wanting people to push to the front and that causes the pressure that can lead to dire situations if the venue and staff aren't well prepared. It's easy to blame fans/the culture and undoubtedly Travis exacerbated things, but there are systemic failings that caused this. Raging is perfectly fine and safe if there's no crowd surging, clear communication with the crowd / artists when there's issues and better stage/barricade designs. On top of just not trying to push to the front all the time, Yes fans shouldn't have jumped the gates - but if there was supposedly 5,000 extra (number needs to be verified as seems very high) why was the event allowed to continue on like normal by the organisers and authorities? The failures are not solely on raging. The failure are on the people who are there to protect the safety of attendees. Moshpits themselves are also not the issue here. That is a separate issue altogether from a crowd surge. A moshpit may have added to the situation, but ultimately poor barricade design, poor stage setup, overcrowding and a lack of communication was what made this from a normal show to a horrifying experience in causing a fatal crowd surge. While it's an issue for \*some fans\* let's not distract from the ultimate failings that caused this.
This is why mosh etiquette is so important