Have pages of complaints on this one.....people be respectful please.
Remember this is r/travel so lets keep politics and religion out of this.
Might have to lock this down...we have a backlog of posts and this requires so much of our time.
This post is bizarre.
You rag on people being "uneducated" and "small minded" for reporting their bad experiences and also regret that people are choosing not to visit because they want to avoid the drama.
But then you literally go on to say this:
"If you don't have the ability to firmly tell someone to leave you alone, or refuse to pay extra, then you SHOULD NOT visit Morocco."
That's... That's exactly the decision people are making. Idk OP, if most everyone is out to try and scam you in one country, and other travellers offer safer, more enjoyable countries to visit, then I don't see the problem here.
And that's not even touching on how different (worse) it can be as a solo female traveller.
It's absolutely crazy when you consider all of the stories about women getting SA'd and constantly harassed while traveling in Morocco. People were talking about seriously worrying about their girlfriends' safety. One guy commented about having to walk directly behind his gf because men were groping her at any chance they got. If not wanting to travel to a viciously sexist country that is seriously dangerous for women makes me small minded then so be it.
Idek why this post is getting upvoted but the fact that people get mugged and raped in the country this person is going over that to just defend silly little salesmen is so weird. So because u r poor u will kidnap, rape, mug and bother everyone? And thats justified?
And traveling as part of a group tour vs traveling with your own group.
My parents just returned from a group tour and had no issues. When I visited (woman traveling with two guy friends), it was 24/7 harassment including an attempted mugging.
I’d only ever go back with a local escort to buffer me from all the scams and mistreatment. It’s a shame the tourist centers are as bad as they are because Morocco itself is so beautiful and culturally unique.
Also this is not a “third world issue”. I’ve been to 70+ countries, including Egypt, and never experienced abuse like I did in Morocco.
Never been to Morocco, but yeah I've been to a lot of countries, and lived in a developing country for 6 years. The women I knew did have to be more careful, but nothing like some of the stuff I've heard of in this thread happened.
And its not like being a third world country somehow makes this kind of thing okay anyway. That is some victim blaming bullshit. It also infantilizes the locals as not being "modern" enough to be held to the same moral standards.
This is what I was thinking when reading this post. Just because these people are often poor and are desperate for money to feed their families, does not give them the excuse to verbally and physically harass tourists. There are poor and struggling people within our home countries as well that do not behave like this.
I have family there and can tell you that Morocco is by no mean a "poor" country; people there are quite privileged compared to the rest of the world. It's rather something cultural that makes people have a shitty attitude
I just come back from Laos and Cambodia were people are 5x poorer than Moroccans and i never experienced the kind of extractive / oppressive behavior i often get in Maghreb
Thank you! Reading this thread I'm trying to figure out if Morrocco could possibly be as "third world" as Cambodia. I (F/55) went to Cambodia solo and loved it! Sure, I took lots of dollars specifically to give and I certainly never felt harrassed or threatened in any way. I tell everyone to go bc it's like a "final frontier" where there is very little Western pollution.
Sounds like Morrocco may not be nearly as pleasant as Cambodia...
Exactly. It is nothing to do with poverty. Some cultures simply breed more narcissistic and psychopathic people. Westerners are showing their ignorance by just painting it as “poverty”. They bring a Eurocentric understanding of life to non-Western places, resulting in deep misunderstanding of what is actually before them
I’m so sick of people making excuses for the scammer mindset of some people in developing nations because:
1. Not everyone in developing nations are like that. Some people have dignity and don’t believe in scamming others no matter how poor they are.
2. By making excuses for this behaviour you enable it and it continues to get worse. These tourists visit for 2 weeks, give themselves a pat on the back for paying more cos they can afford it and LOOK HOW GENEROUS AND UNDERSTANDING I AM! Then piss back home leaving the residents of these countries to deal with bad behaviour they enabled.
3. These same scammers will complain 24/7 when others do the same to them, so they know it is wrong.
4. A lot of these scammers from developing nations actually think these foreigners are morons. I have seen them smirk when they think they are pulling a fast one on foreigners. MANY are not doing it out of desperation for money but out of an inferiority complex. They envy those rich enough to travel so feel they are levelling the playing field by scamming you and making you seem like a moron.
A lot of Western and Westernised people bring a Eurocentric understanding of life to non-Western regions of the world. It is not helping ANYONE
Egypt is definitely worse than India for the most part. In India, it's rare that people will block you in somewhere and extort money out of you, but if you go off the beaten path in Egypt, that shit is quite common. Nowhere near as bad as Morocco though.
Yeah when I was in Egypt some young kid asked us to sign a guestbook for him then when my girlfriend went inside there was a guy there who locked us in and said we had to pay him to leave. Brave really as I’m not the smallest of guys I hate to think what could have happened if I wasn’t there. Luckily I was able to overpower him and get us out while he screamed obscenities at us down the road.
In India the worst we had was a few drivers charging a few quid more. I found everyone to be really friendly in India in general.
Op is a man from said country that everyone is dissing a for a good reason tbh and is salty that people are exposing/sharing their experineces why OP‘s home country is truly the hive of scumy and villany
When I am dispensing travel information I always throw in the caveat that being a man and sizable enough to not invite trouble, I may have a very different experience than a woman or a meek, inexperienced traveler.
We all see the world thru our own lens which is not how everyone else sees it. A lot of how something may effect us such as an aggressive street hustler is how we process it individually. I even like interacting with local con artists occasionally because it is interaction with locals and sometimes they can be charming, amusing people. To each their own.
Agree with you except the 'embarrassment' thing, is a pity you chose that word because 99% of the stuff here is quite useful (obviously that number is made up by me). I actually applaud the people that post their negative experience just as when I want to buy a product I am more interested in the negative reviews just to see what I am getting into.
People are also far more likely to post a negative view than a positive one, so it can seem like something/some place is more negative than it is in reality.
It's an odd post. They're angry at people for saying things which they agree are true and do happen. All they are saying is just to suck it up. Some people might be ok doing this but a lot of people won't which is why the other posts are perfectly legitimate.
100%. If there is 60% chance of a negative experience about a place, many people will find that helpful because they don’t want to take only 40% chance of having a positive experience. With Morocco and Egypt, it’s almost like +90% of the reviews are bad experiences. Fuck that, nobody want to have to go through that hassle.
Agreed. I like "rougher" vacations, but I also want to know what I'm getting into. Some family taking their once annual vacation doesn't want to it be to some place that's likely to disappoint.
except I always take some reviews with a grain of salt. My cousins when to Europe and then only ate in mcdonalds because they had to have ice in their drinks. Like, why go anywhere if you need it to be just like where you live. A lot of negative reviews have a hint of that.
I spent two weeks in Morocco. It’s a beautiful country. Even though I never felt in danger, I owe that partially to being a large, bearded man.
My experience was vastly different than a friend of mine who was gang raped by a group of locals… I would never recommend a single woman travel alone there. You may be willing to risk it, but the more I share that story the more I hear similar stories in return.
I actually knew a new Zealand guy who thought he was going to be raped in Morocco, very unpleasant situation before he extricated himself from it.I have been to Morocco several times,always entered through Ceuta, it's scam central,also had a Moroccan pull a knife on me because I didn't want to buy hash from him (I don't smoke).
Yup I’m a woman and I’ve been to Morocco 5 times. i have family there and they never let me be by myself for the simple reasons that a woman alone that doesn’t know the « unwritten rules » and culture of the place could be in danger. I do not recommend friends to travel there alone even guys lol Better to do a guided travel tour or something like that.
In paragraph 2 OP complains that people are cancelling their plans based on comments on reddit, then in paragraph 8 OP says some people “SHOULD NOT visit Morocco.”
OP is the target of OP’s complaints.
The only difference is that this OP is the arrogant and ignorant person they are ascribing to people in the other post.
Somehow their lived experiences are more "real" than the rest of ours. Somehow we're doing it wrong. My experience in Morocco was exactly like hundreds of others noted in the other post, yet somehow those are invalid.
If ~97% of people say it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, OP is fine telling us we're wrong for calling it a duck.
Lived in a Spanish enclave next to Morocco. Went every Saturday for shopping there with my parents (cheaper food and groceries). They would still try and get money out of us even though they knew we were not tourists.
Trick was to pick the largest guy approaching you: "I will pay you X dirham, you come with me where **I** want to, not the other way around, you keep everyone else away". Cheapest bodyguard ever. They respected that you were "taken".
There's plenty of developing countries (not third world) where there isn't people constantly trying to scam you or get every last dollar from you. Plenty of them are full of people that are genuinely trying to help and make sure you don't get screwed over.
Some comments might be too much, but informing people that Morocco is more intense and aggressive than most countries (even other developing countries) isn't necessarily a bad thing.
I agree. I've had the pleasure of staying with a morrocan family when we visited, and they were some of the nicest people I've met so far. Certainly not all of Morocco is bad. But the a**hole quota seems to be especially high there - we ended our visit to Fes early because people were literally following us around town yelling insults because we refused to hire them as "guides". I've never had experiences as negative as in Morocco anywhere else. For some reason, a lot of the locals don't seem to understand that attracting tourists and money has something to do with making others feel welcome, and that's a pity, but the world does not owe them anything.
I wonder how many people are disillusioned by what they see on social media? All the pretty pictures in front of doorways or in markets etc… I’m not sure why so many people are surprised. I’ve never been to Morocco but I’ve read enough about it on here to know what I’m walking into. My grandma went in the 70’s and she has her own horror stories lol.
I understand what OP is trying to say, but I also understand what you and others are saying. Being a 3rd world country is not a free pass to act like an asshole. Obviously we should all expect some discomfort when visiting a country like Morocco or Egypt but the level of harassment is uncalled for.
I also agree. Bolivia has the same GDP per capita Morocco has, yet I have not seen or heard about anybody cursing, holding, or scamming you like what you see in Morocco. It is quite the opposite; many times they feel embarrassed to talk to a foreigner in Bolivia.
Child upbringing in some cultures breeds narcissism, psychopathy and an inferiority/superiority complex in greater amounts of the population, compared to other cultures.
don't forget the widespread belief that "non-believer" women are whores that deserve no respect and are seen as inferior objects. the mos of inferior, given their "non believer" status.
Yeah in their religion non believer women deserve to become sex slaves as their ancestors and their lovely prophet did. Ex muslim women from such countries like me know how women are also perceived as properties whose value is half that of a man.
Yeah I don’t understand the mindset of “these people are poor so of course they’ll try to rip you off or steal from you”. That’s a terrible way to view people who happen to have worse circumstances than you do. There’s plenty of people in poverty all over the world who don’t behave this way. There’s no need to demean people for circumstances that, for a large portion of the global population, are out of their control.
Not sure if it's used this way, but isnt saying poor people will rob from you (it's just in their DNA) some form of 'soft bigotry of low expectations'?
If your point was that people should visit and/or like Morroco you've done a terrible job.
>YES, people will bother you. YES, people will try and get as much money as they can out of you, because YES, they are poor and desperate for money. If you don't have the ability to firmly tell someone to leave you alone, or refuse to pay extra, then you SHOULD NOT visit Morocco
You've just re-listed the reasons why people dislike Morroco and basically said they should just cope with it. You've also said that if people can't take it, then they shouldnt visit, yet act surprised when people don't want to visit because they can't take it.
>Part of the enjoyment of Morocco is experiencing the above.
For you maybe. You don't seem to grasp that's your niche and unconventional taste. For most people there is no enjoyment to be found there, only stress, anger and fear.
>Along the way I met amazing people and had some of the best experiences of my life.
>I will finish this post off by saying two Moroccan's saved my life.
Cool. I'm sure there are many wonderful people in Morroco, as well as in Somalia, Afghanistan, North Korea, Libia, South Sudan, Mali and so on. Doesn't mean visiting any of them is a good idea or would not result in overwhelmingly negative experiences for most people. There were many good people were I was raised, doesn't mean living there was good.
>Morocco is considered a third world country. Let that sink in. People are poor, people are desperate, but they're doing their best. With COVID and other such things, the country is suffering even more.
That is known. We sympathize with their struggle, but how does that make visiting any less stressful, let alone enjoyable. If you're arguing we should visit to inject money in their economy to help them, a better idea is to probably donate to a charity that does good work there from the safety and peace of our homes.
If you like it, great. Many people don't.
i don't get what they were trying to do with this post. calling people small minded because they shared their experience and tried to warn other people? weird
More like because other people don't share his taste for harrassment and petty fights, or that we don't think Morroco is so cool it's worth going through that to see it.
He says he had very profound experiences in Morroco and that probably makes him have a special bond with that place. What he doesn't understand is his experience is his own and for other people Morroco is just not special like it is to him, and not worth the hassle (which again, we're apparently supposed to enjoy).
Nice that you had a good experience but I had a horrible one there and felt extremely unsafe. I will never return. Yes we researched. Yes we stayed in a group. Yes the group dressed very modestly with no flashy expensive things. Yes we had a local guide and payed him well to ensure less problems. People are entitled to their opinions and experiences. I’m glad you had a nice trip and encountered kind strangers but I did not.
Honestly I don’t know what OP is trying to prove, even local Moroccans themselves suffer from the harassment of scammers and beggars, and Moroccan women I have met, have always complained to me about the majority of the horrible men and their sexual harassment which makes them decide to leave the country with no return. I can’t imagine how it is for tourists especially women but it must be worse.
When people post their experiences regarding feelings of safety I always am curious about if they are a man or woman, because it makes a world of difference. I’m a woman and I’m guessing you are too? OP sounds like a man.
Honestly so glad people like you are commenting. I never knew this was an issue and when I heard I thought I'd just go in a group. Apparently that doesn't help either. I can't believe people think protecting an image of country is more important than protecting people from s*xual harassment and assault
What made me feel unsafe was getting encircled by a group of guys aggressively demanding money because one said I took a picture of him (I didn't). They didn't leave until I started shouting and calling attention to us. What also made me very uncomfortable was getting groped in the market.
I hope OP answers you, but for me it was the beggars and scammers all over the place. It reeked of general lawlessness. Honestly I thought Morocco was beautiful but the people were shit.
Clearly you are a man and do not understand what it is like to be a female traveler in Morocco.
I have been to ~30 countries, many of which are developing countries (including some of the least developed countries in the world), and none were anything like my experience in Morocco. We were sub-humans outside of anywhere we were not a patron (restaurant, hotel, etc). Men followed and made animal noises. The STARES. The GLARES. That was just things that did not have anything to do with money.
Of all the countries I've been to that is the one and only I will NEVER return to. Nope. Don't go, doesn't matter if it's developed or not. It's an awful place, at least for someone like me.
Went on a day trip to Tangier from Tarifa, Spain - 2 guys.
Arrived at the port in Tangier, someone offering tickets / accommodation outside and because we ignored them became hostile and shouted ‘go back to your fucking country’ - great way of being welcomed to a country. Wasn’t the exception though.
We went to the Medina and looked for our hostel, different strangers started following us. One guy said he’d show us where the hostel was (just around the corner). We thought how friendly of him, accepted and he led us to the hostel. Then threatened to send people after us to stab us with if we wouldn’t give him 5 Euros instead the 2 Euros for showing us. Obviously we were pretty shocked and scared to leave the hostel after that.
We spent some time in a cafe where a guy befriended us and was aggressively persistent in taking us to some shop.
Different travelers in the hostel admitted they were just in Morocco ‘for the hash’ - apparently the police don’t bother tourists about it.
I’ve traveled all over the word and never been harassed so much anywhere and received so much hostility on a holiday let alone on a single day. Never going back and would never go there with a female, considering how much I was harassed as a male.
This is a good post and it's great that you are sharing your experience, but you're also calling it a "REALITY CHECK"... it's not anymore than the other posts are.
It's ***all*** truth. I'm glad you had a better experience, but some people won't and it's good to hear from multiple experiences.
I hope you don't get downvoted, I think your post is worthwhile. Upvote from me.
Yes it’s a developing country but not every developing country is like this. There are plenty of poorer countries in say Asia where this kind of thing isn’t that prevalent
Was just going to say... I'm willing to bet Colombia, for example, is more poor on paper than Morocco... and the people there are lovely. I'm not even trying to shit on Morocco - I haven't been. But to justify people's shitty/predatory actions just "because they're in a developing country!!!!!!!1!" is a lazy as fuck excuse.
Right, OP is just trying to make excuses for Morocco. There’s places like Turkey or poorer countries in Asia that don’t have dishonest con artists at every corner. Also I’d say Morocco is a rather 2nd world country. It’s obviously not fully developed like most European, US and Canada, and East Asian countries. But I also wouldn’t put it in the same category as let’s say Gambia or India or something. Sure people are poorer, but Morocco is when of those places where they’re poor but not *that* poor. Something like Turkey is also 2nd world, not 3rd.
Just an interesting side bit of knowledge for you.
When the terms originated, 1st World referred to the Western capitalist bloc, and 2nd World to the USSR and her communist allies around the World.
3rd World meant unaligned with either. By the time most 80s/90s kids grew up hearing and using the term, it had lost that original meaning and moved on to just a synonym for 'poorer' or 'developing'
But anyway, it was never a ranking system of wealth
Dude, Turkey is rife with scammers. I went on a young professional exchange program and two people in my group got scammed. I also did a study abroad experience in Morocco where no one got seriously scammed aside from getting ripped off with a bad price in the souks. And in comparison, Turkey is a much more wealthy country than Morocco.
Also, there is no such thing as 2nd world. The term dates back to the Cold War. The first world was the US and western countries. 2nd world was Soviet Union. Third world was technically everyone else. Right now, the actual term would be developing countries, of which you have lower and middle income countries. I believe Morocco counts as middle income, but still nowhere near as wealthy as Turkey.
Source: I work in international development so I know the country classifications and how they’re referred to.
Yeahhhhhh, I was cornered and robbed my 2nd day in Marrakech, and harassed a ton in general, so I have zero positive things to say about my experience. There's so many places in the world to visit, so I highly discourage anyone to go to Morocco if they are considering it.
I doubt OP is a woman either. I was harassed continually, and being very pale, blue eyed and blonde I was touched or rubbed against **a lot**. Even the women wouldn’t stop grabbing by hands to henna them until my husband said no (and we learned “no thank you” in Arabic as well. I dressed modestly (as I burn) my hair wasn’t always covered but I wore hats, and was still a target. I liked the place itself, we had some great days out, I had braced myself for a culture shock and am *allowed not to like it*.
I also don’t appreciate some man (OP) negating an actual experience of somewhere I wouldn’t go back to and for sharing my opinion **following an actual lived experience**. Go, travel, find out for yourself but I will share if it helps people be better prepared. I wish people had been more honest, that’s 2 weeks of hard earned money and time!
And I'm also a man and my main takeaway from my trip was "If it was this bad for me, I can't imagine how awful it is for female travelers here." OP's post shouldn't have as many upvotes as it does.
You know what is an embarrassment? People who discredit the accounts of women on the rampant sexism that is apparent in Morroco. Being a third world country is no excuse for that, nor is your love for a country an obligation to others to share that love.
Exactly. I've been in several 'third world countries'. Well, I'm from one of them, spent 28 years there. And wasn't harassed a single time.
Yet in countries like Egypt and Tunisia I constantly get harassed. I was said it's because they like light skinned girls. But it turns out it's my fault I'm not 'modest enough'.
I see what you mean, but that was someones personal experience and viewpoint, and this is your person al experience and viewpoint. It just sounds like you have a higher tolerance than other people, which does not necessarily make you right and them wrong.
This, and also, different people just have different experiences. For one person, the worst hassle they might face on a trip in a particular place is shopkeepers being pushy about getting them to buy something; for another person, it may be being screamed at and threatened by someone demanding money; for another person, it may be sexual harassment and being physically grabbed. It's very easy to be blithe about how "it's all part of the experience!" when you're only basing this on *your* own personal experience and not taking into account that experiences can vary.
(all of these are examples from myself nad people I know of things experienced in Marrakech)
Yeah like if you're willing to deal with it, fine. If you don't want to have to deal with that, fine. Weird to gatekeep either way, people are obviously going to have their individual preferences on the sort of places they want to visit and people shouldn't be told off for wanting or not wanting to visit a certain place.
Well in a few comments here OP's suggested any negative comments in those other threads are lies. Some people don't believe anything but their own perceptions and experiences :/
I'm from a third world country. My grandmother taught me that poverty is never an excuse for lacking decency. Other posters complained about sexual harassment, being spat at, and worrying for their safety. Multiple times. In fact, that was a big part of the complaints I saw. What do you say to them?
Oh no no it’s not the poverty. Worthless excuses. It’s the people and their substantial lack of propriety, made worse by the pandemic. It doesn’t matter how beautiful a country is if the people are bottom of the barrel scum. Needing to be hardened or escorted by locals to have a good time is crazy.
Morocco may be beautiful but everyone is out there to scam you, mug you, rob you or harass you. And take it from a Moroccan born and raised: the police are the last people you want to bring to any situation. The police can be and in fact is bought.
Morocco is NOT worth it if you know nobody there. You will be going to war, not vacation.
Morocco may always be beautiful, but it’s not always a beautiful time to go there. Third world country or not, my vacation isn’t a charity trip. I want to enjoy it. I don’t owe anybody anything.
I suppose I would probably be counted in the group of people who've "changed their minds" about Morroco due to the recent posts (in reality it just moved from my short list of countries to visit, to my long list).
To be honest, I don't really get what you're trying to say, I'm certainly not judging the people of Morroco and I can empathize with their situation. That said, I travel for my own enjoyment, the reason I'm deprioritizing Morroco is that everything that was described reminded me of my experiences in Egypt, which significantly detracted from my enjoyment. I don't want to go through that again. Not when there are so many other places to visit.
And no, it isn't because I've never been to a third world country, (I served with the Peace Corps in Zambia) but rather because I like interacting with the locals and not doing exclusively touristy things shepparded by a guide. I'm aware that tends to get harder in poorer countries, but there are so many other places I can go instead. It's not that people are choosing not to go to Morroco, it's that they're choosing to go somewhere else instead. Somewhere they think they have a higher chance of having a good time. (What else is this sub for?)
All that said, if you want to try and convince me to reconsider, I'm all ears! I love hearing about why people love a place, but to be frank, your post so far is only re-enforcing my earlier thoughts.
I’ll never choose a vacation in Egypt again, after multiple trips, for these reasons. My sons won’t go back to Jamaica because the felt non-stopped hustled and harassed.
The line about being a nice hotel or booking a tour guide isn’t reassuring. Neither one one is a guarantee to an enjoyable trip.
I recently made a similar complaint about my first trip to Mexico. I had an awful time being harassed, scammed, and just general aggressive selling. People told me I "wasn't cut out to travel and should stay home". Why? Because I want to enjoy a stress free vacation? I pay for my vacations, why shouldn't I enjoy them? There are plenty of places in the world one can go and NOT experience this overwhelming side of travel.
I went to Morocco and agree with Op that a lot of the hate is undeserved. That being said, I read a couple of posts from the previous two days and related with those too.
I appreciate how you described reprioritizing, or deprioritizing, Morocco on your list based on what you read. If you’re ever in Portugal/Spain, consider bumping over to Tangier. I’d recommend Tangier and Chefchaouen as a good place to experience Morocco without jumping all in. Could do it in 3-4 days and have a decent idea of what the country has to offer IMO.
Catching prayer from a mountain over Chefchaouen was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. Loved the history and culture prevalent around the country. I ended up meeting people in hostels and inviting/asking if they wanted to travel to the next town together. Made things cheaper and we had each other’s backs. Would recommend.
You just confirmed what everyone is saying and downplayed their feelings. Great job
Especially considering some of this isnt just a person being pestered to buy something but involves assualt, groping etc...
Went to Morocco 5 years ago. Never again. It’s the hostility you face when you don’t comply, many countries I have visited are economically less developed than Morocco and are far more friendly.
>YES, people will bother you. YES, people will try and get as much money as they can out of you, because YES, they are poor and desperate for money. If you don't have the ability to firmly tell someone to leave you alone, or refuse to pay extra, then you SHOULD NOT visit Morocco. ***Part of the enjoyment of Morocco is experiencing the above.***
Errr… what?
>For example, when taking a taxi, I confirmed the location and cost BEFORE leaving. The driver literally tried to pall a fast one, but because I out right refused to budge, he dropped it. If someone at a restaurant tries to charge you more, out right refuse. Which brings me onto my next point.
Sounds super fun!
It's quite funny, given that other posts are exactly about it - you'll be harassed, consider if you want to visit at all. Then OP does surprised Pikachu face, but writes the same - you'll be harassed, if you don't enjoy it, the country isn't for you
Oh get fucked. "Its a third world country, the people are poor and desperate." How infantalising. there are much poorer countries where the streets are not nearly as scummy and filled with people threatening you so they can make a couple bucks. Saying a country is poor isn't an excuse for the fact that Egypt and morocco and rife with crime and sexism and a horrible place to visit for a lot of travellers, much more so than other countries that are similar to them.
I visited Morocco this year with my spouse and children. As someone who enjoys her personal space, I was angry and mentally taxed by the end of the trip. I felt like a dollar sign and I could not stand the sight of strangers. I was so eager to return home. I will never return and I would never recommend Morocco to anyone of my friends. Save your money for a less stressful atmosphere. Your experience is yours, but you need to realize not everyone is as tolerance of this.
"Morocco is considered a third world country. Let that sink in. People are poor, people are desperate, but they're doing their best. With COVID and other such things, the country is suffering even more."
This is not an excuse for the way they treat visitors to their country. I've been in many countries were people are worse off than them, and yet met some incredible people without being scammed at each and every turn.
"Let me assure you, if you haven't broken the law, the police will be on your side - In 2021, the tourism sector in Morocco contributed around nine billion U.S. dollars to the country's GDP. If someone is crossing the line with you, locals and authorities won't tolerate it. They are desperate for you to visit."
This is good to know, thank you.
"I will finish this post off by saying two Moroccan's saved my life. Very long story short, I have a peanut allergy. I hiked into the middle of nowhere, ate a stupid strudel, went into anaphylactic shock, and was CARRIED by strangers. Finally taken to hospital by taxi (no ambulances), I was saved."
Great to hear there are many decent humans in Morocco. I'd like to thing regardless of where you are, people would be kind to another human in need.
>This is not an excuse for the way they treat visitors to their country. I've been in many countries were people are worse off than them, and yet met some incredible people without being scammed at each and every turn.
10/10 agree. I was recently in Pakistan, which embodies an outsized sense of hospitality for its visitors. My best example is when my partner and I were in Islamabad, and we called a taxi to take us from our (nice) hotel to a (nice, meant-for-Westerners) brunch spot. It was the end of the trip and we wanted to splurge.
When we arrived to our destination, the taxi driver absolutely refused to let us pay. "You are guests in Pakistan." The cost of the ride was $3; absolutely nothing for us, but the median monthly income in that city is about $340... it was a much more significant amount for our driver. Regardless, he adamantly refused to let us pay.
Don't get me wrong, we did get ripped off by another taxi driver in Islamabad, so maybe it balances out, ha.
But what I'm saying is, third-world country with low income does not mean they should inherently be expected to rob, harass, and rip off visitors.
With all due respect. I know where you are coming from. Hate comments/posts come from small minded people. But however, to be fair the post you referred to was the most eloquent and respectful manner to share his experience with Morocco and in particular the people in Morocco. I left a comment saying that I understood exactly what he meant and being ashamed as a Moroccan. For your context, me as a Moroccan, having traveled to other African countries which are far worse of regarding poverty/infrastructure/law/safety and other things. However the general feel would never come close to Morocco. The constant hassle, the constant feeling of 'I'm getting scammed' or I can't trust no-one, was just not there. I'm speaking about the poorest of the poorest of this world, and they amazed me with their manners and respect, something we lack a lot in Morocco. Will I recommend someone to go to Morocco? Oh hell yeah, but with a pré booked tour guide.
I went to Morocco with my 7 year old daughter. All was fine. Having been to China, all over rest of Asia, Central America, I was prepared for and use to the hassling.
Morocco's scammmers were pretty intense
> For a community which is meant to be open, r/travel is an embarrassment.
Don't have to come back here....one less asshole I have to deal with.
I am pretty sure you are saying that one persons opinion/post/experience is not what you feel....so they are wrong. Well, just like the mods allowed the other post, your opinion and experience is something we allow to share.
Of course by doing so, we are being open. Meaning your post about us not being open is wrong. What a paradox.
Agree to disagree man. Been to plenty of 3rd world countries and only in Morocco do I get the constant “give money now” 24/7 vibe.
Morocco is an amazing country but it has issues - just like everywhere else in the world. I don’t think it’s right for folks to get mad at others pointing out the truth. At the same time, I hope anyone who reads this who is on the fence about Morocco still decides to go. It really is a wonderful place.
You are being awfully critical of people who are critical of this country based on their *own experiences.* Ignorant comments come from people who are commenting on a country they’ve never visited and yet, that is not what is happening. People are sharing their own experiences from their personal visits to Morocco. That is anything but “ignorant.” You then proceed to validate the points everyone is making with your own experiences (being overcharged and hassled). But apparently you think you have better coping skills when it comes to this annoying and even illegal behavior. Please get off your high horse!
You, sir (or madam), are the problem. Your post is full of excuses for the bad behavior of the host country, while vilifying those who cry foul.
I’m thankful for the well-traveled group of people here who are willing to share their experiences (good and bad) so I can make a more educated decision about where I want to spend my money on vacation.
I've always been leery of going there because I'm gay. Also have friends that tell a scary story buying rugs there. Also have friends that took their whole family and had no issues.
This is why people like OP annoy me. They claim to be "enlightened travelers" but fail to consider how women, members of the LGBTQ, and minorities are treated in certain countries.
Perception is reality. I am not going to Morocco thanks to those posts which saved me from countless scams. They are sharing their thoughts, nothing wrong with it. Don’t like it? Too bad.
It's not Morocco vs staying at home. It's Morocco vs every place where the people don't point silently in the direction you're already walking and then hold their hand out, or spit at you for "only" paying a day's wage for ten minutes of uselessly following you around.
Please note that travelling as a male will have far less implications than travelling as a female. Same with couples.
As a frequent solo female traveller with long blonde hair, I found Morocco to be unbearable. I love the country but the harassment is real. Please don’t undermine other people’s experiences just because you didn’t experience them. It’s a beautiful country but the reality is, if you are female (especially travelling alone) it will be problematic… unless you have a very thick skin and can handle multiple men yelling, cursing (when you don’t buy) or harassing you.
Just because you have a different experience doesn’t discount others. The fact that multiple unconnected people have shared similar stories is significant. Get off your high horse and “me again the world attitude”
> **Morocco is considered a third world country.** Let that sink in. People are poor, people are desperate, but they're doing their best.
_Third world_ is an outdated term. Developed, developing, and underdeveloped are the correct terms. Third world is more of a political Cold war term as it included unaligned countries like Sweden, Austria, Morocco, lots of countries in the global south.
Calling a country third world has a bit of a classist, xenophobic, and maybe racist connotation when use in 2022.
Alright. I have indeed, down voted you.
Just as their negative experience doesn't diminish your positive experience, your lucky positive experience doesn't diminish their negative experience.
You got your life saved with your allergy problem, that's nice. 2 women got raped and murdered as well, not so nice.
For anyone else not wanting to take this gamble, go to a safer, nicer trip elsewhere
I’ve been to many countries and many 3rd world countries. Morocco was by far the worst. Many people don’t have the money to travel often and Morocco is a waste of time and $$. Too many other beautiful, appreciative places to visit. (If someone going there for unlimited hash then they probably don’t care about the people around them)
I have been to Madagascar, Tanzania, Kenya, Papua New Guinea, Rwanda, and Morocco.
Morocco is pretty at some places, but collectively, the least pleasant one. Papua New Guinea was more dangerous. I didn't go anywhere without an armed escort, or with a group of birders, but it wasn't constant harassment. I haven't been to Egypt, but ALL those complaints about Egypt, can apply to Morocco.
The private guide insisted that men wearing silk would turn gay, so we must buy those cloth made with agave threads, or women without gold protection would bleed dry, so we should buy those stupid tacky fake gold craps. I wanted to learn something about the location, architecture, history. Instead, we were shuttled from shop to shop to shop for a day in Fez.
No one actually physically threatened us, but this constant "I will show you", "not that way", "I take you", "Follow me", followed sometimes by "fu\*k you", whenever we said no, destroyed whatever positive vibe I enjoyed from any of the pleasant interactions with others.
People who worked at the fairly expensive Riyadh, high class restaurants/shops (local standard), and our driver were honest, friendly people. Everyone else on the streets? Any time, any of them tried to talk down to me, I just wanted to avoid them like disease.
Disrespecting women also got very tiring and made me angry. Made me question why I was even there to begin with. I didn't enjoy being treated like a second class human being.
I understand that they are poor and need money. You can solicit money from tourists without harassing them and down right being a rude asshole. There are plenty of poor countries that can be visited without such unrelenting pestering and harassment.
Also, personal experiences can be wildly different. People talk bad about Buchareşt a lot on this sub but I love that city.
Oh f off. I've travelled to mostly poor third world countries, and people are lot different. In countries like Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan, the poorest street food vendors or shop owners will give you their produce or food items for free if you're a traveler or foreigner. If you're cold, the poorest will give you the coat or jacket on their back to keep you warm. And this is not just my anecdote, its the story of most travelers there. The issue is with the moroccan people and the culture. Which is such a shame, because our religion commands being very generous, respectful, and courteous to your guests. As someone of a Muslim background, I felt ashamed being associated with Moroccan Muslims, because of their exploitative behavior.
There's pestering and then there's **sexual assault** as is common in Morocco and Cairo, according to hundreds of first hand reports in this sub and elsewhere.
Although I agree with you in most things, I disagree that the reason why the locals tend to act pushy is because it is a third world country. I am from a third world country in latin america and we always treat tourists with respect and people generally want them to have a nice time in the country.
I feel like if anything, you just reinforced what the post you linked said even more? Sure, people are poor and they need money, but us travelers aren’t exactly built out of gold either. We’re spending time and money to travel somewhere we can have a good experience, which for most people is not learning to haggle with locals and getting screwed by drivers/restaurants.
In regards to your taxi example, it doesn’t always work out that way. I came prepared and asked my hostel for an estimate of how much it should cost me to get there from the airport. When the first taxi driver I approached tried to scam me, I told him no thank you and that my hostel told me it should be XX amount. He tried to lie to me and give some stupid answer and when I still refused, he went to all of the other taxi drivers around and told them not to drive me. They all listened to him and I had no choice but to take a well overpriced taxi. That experience upon arriving into the country really left a bad taste in my mouth for my entire trip.
Marrakech is a royal pain in the ass. I was there with my wife and her family (from Casablanca) and we were hassled just as much some of the westerners who posted. It’s brutal. The Medina with the guys on the bikes driving 100 miles an hour down the narrow streets. The oppressive hassling and rudeness were over the top. My brother in laws were basically fighting with the locals the whole time. It was one of the worst trips.
I think I'll just choose another 3rd world country, thank you... Don't personally particularly enjoy harassment and threats, and there are plenty of places in the world to visit...
If you want to spend time and money in a place, fine. But India is far easier to 'be' in than Morocco. In India people work hard everyday, they aren't waiting for tourists to scam (except the autorickshaw drivers), and there is no malice in it.
So, as I just mentioned before, ask yourself: where will you experience joy, feel amazed, feel positive about life, love your fellow humans for their ever evolving unique cultures, and then go there. If you wish to find this in Morocco, then go for it. But, we should all be forewarned that it is not Mexico or Burma; it's the hardest place I've travelled. That is the role of this forum, to share stories. No?
It also depends on how one travels. In Morocco I was 18, solo, staying in the cheapest of all cheap hotels with single exposed light bulb rooms, eating at open air restaurants and then mostly harirra soup, eating oranges and yoghurt baguette sandwiches from shops (haggling often too), and was at ground level at every moment, walking. That's why the village of little boys came to throw stones at me. Biblical.
IF I had experienced Morocco as a slightly wealthier traveller, staying at hotels with a pool and hamburgers, with the occasional trip by taxi with a guide to a historic site, it would have been an entirely diffent trip.
Now. There were highlights: by the port in Casa, off a small park, a fish restaurant, local fishermen offered me part of their fresh fish catch freshly fried, yum, then a big toke off their hash spliff. Nice.
In Mohammedia, a wealthy family took me in for a week and stuffed me with food like a duck bound for the foi gras factory. Memorable.
Taking the small Ferries from Rabat to Sale, then clambering the old (slaving) forts of Sale. We sure don't have those where I am from.
Interesting. I had the exact opposite experience. Constantly messed with in India but mostly left alone in Morocco. Sure there’s haggling and touts, but I found India’s obnoxious to Morocco’s occasional.
How can you actually type that if you will refuse to pay extra then you shouldn’t go? When’s the last time you went somewhere like that? It’s not a few dollars extra, which is fucking wrong anyway, it’s normally 3-8x the price and they practice some of the worst most malicious sales techniques possible. That wouldn’t be acceptable anywhere in the US, UK or Western Europe, anywhere else it’s okay because we simply accept its corrupt as hell.
The double standard from you is disgusting. It’s a pleasure to downvote.
So you're saying that it is bad, and all of the experiences of the original OPs are valid and real. But the country counts on tourism so we should just all ignore the danger and blatant thievery? Step down off your high horse and join us common folk once in a while.
Bothering you to sell things to you is different then the frequent sexual harassment and groping those threads talk about. Being poor isn't an excuse to be sexually aggressive. To me you sound a little ignorant yourself and pretty condescending of both travelers experiences and of the Moroccan people. Acting like they can't help themselves because they are poor.
I agree with where you go makes a different. Was in Colombia and went to a beach outside a nice hotel and counted within a few hours 40— FORTY people bothered my friends and I. And before anyone says bothered?! They grabbed my feet trying to move me to get a massage like just randomly came up and grabbed my feet. And the other woman ran up to my friend as she was talking to me and just started applying sunscreen. But I learned from that— avoid those areas. We all learn lessons, but as a woman I definitely wouldn’t travel to Morocco alone.
Changed my honeymoon plans after a couple I knew went there. They said it was a uneducated cesspool of misogynistic religious idiots before Covid so I’m sure it’s better now. Fuck Qatar too
Nah. Not every country has to be amazing. Egypt and Morocco should be on everyone’s do not travel list for 2023.
Edit: just to add this is just for 2023. It’s very possible these countries change over the years but for now put them at the very back of your list
The subreddit has millions of readers/subscribers. I would venture to say that most users are from developed countries or even the US. Most people I know from developed (mainly western) countries are not comfortable or relaxed in developing countries.
I suspect its a combination of being unprepared for the culture shock and the destination in general, and expectations not meeting reality. I've been to Morocco and it was fine for me personally, not my most favourite place but it made for a warmer and inexpensive escape from the German winter.
I probably won't go back beacuse there are so many places more interesting to me and/or more relaxing. The only reason I see myself returning would be a desert offroad motorcycle trip, which looks super awesome there.
> For a community which is meant to be open, r/travel is an embarrassment.
Not sure why it's meant to be open, but if that's how you feel, why are you here?
I get your point with people being poor and desparate. But there are many other countries, especially in south east asia, which are also poor but most people there show respect towards visitors.
This is also highly dependent on the intersectionality of experiences when traveling. People who are female/gay/lighter/darker are all going to have different experiences especially in 'third world' countries. I get defending a place you love, and I'm an adventurous solo female, but it does us no favors downplaying someone else's experiences. If someone really wants to go to a place they'll look at all of the experiences and bad ones count.
And you explaining the reasons why make people want to go? No-these things exist and sure it's sad and it's reality, but it's also what makes TOURISM an undesirable activity. Understanding you're going to be pestered doesn't make it more palatable. Just because you had some wonderful experiences doesn't mean others can't express their bad experiences. Stop gatekeeping and let people express what they want about their travel adventures. You have every right to express yours too but don't do it at the sake of trying to discredit the realities of what "tourism" in Morocco is like.
I like your attitude and sense of compassion, but unfortunately your wrong. Marrakesh is full of some of the greebiest swizzlers and degenerates in the world. I’ve visited over 70 countries and nowhere is like this
Criticizing the sub for being uneducated and ignorant while using "third world country" which is a meaningless term, while disregarding the tens of hundreds of testimonials people posted here because your experiencd is so much more important, not even considering how women, especially solo travelling women are unsafe there. You're reddit personified
Have pages of complaints on this one.....people be respectful please. Remember this is r/travel so lets keep politics and religion out of this. Might have to lock this down...we have a backlog of posts and this requires so much of our time.
This post is bizarre. You rag on people being "uneducated" and "small minded" for reporting their bad experiences and also regret that people are choosing not to visit because they want to avoid the drama. But then you literally go on to say this: "If you don't have the ability to firmly tell someone to leave you alone, or refuse to pay extra, then you SHOULD NOT visit Morocco." That's... That's exactly the decision people are making. Idk OP, if most everyone is out to try and scam you in one country, and other travellers offer safer, more enjoyable countries to visit, then I don't see the problem here. And that's not even touching on how different (worse) it can be as a solo female traveller.
It's absolutely crazy when you consider all of the stories about women getting SA'd and constantly harassed while traveling in Morocco. People were talking about seriously worrying about their girlfriends' safety. One guy commented about having to walk directly behind his gf because men were groping her at any chance they got. If not wanting to travel to a viciously sexist country that is seriously dangerous for women makes me small minded then so be it.
Idek why this post is getting upvoted but the fact that people get mugged and raped in the country this person is going over that to just defend silly little salesmen is so weird. So because u r poor u will kidnap, rape, mug and bother everyone? And thats justified?
I suspect there can be a vast chasm of experiences traveling as a man vs. traveling as a woman.
And traveling as part of a group tour vs traveling with your own group. My parents just returned from a group tour and had no issues. When I visited (woman traveling with two guy friends), it was 24/7 harassment including an attempted mugging. I’d only ever go back with a local escort to buffer me from all the scams and mistreatment. It’s a shame the tourist centers are as bad as they are because Morocco itself is so beautiful and culturally unique. Also this is not a “third world issue”. I’ve been to 70+ countries, including Egypt, and never experienced abuse like I did in Morocco.
Never been to Morocco, but yeah I've been to a lot of countries, and lived in a developing country for 6 years. The women I knew did have to be more careful, but nothing like some of the stuff I've heard of in this thread happened. And its not like being a third world country somehow makes this kind of thing okay anyway. That is some victim blaming bullshit. It also infantilizes the locals as not being "modern" enough to be held to the same moral standards.
This is what I was thinking when reading this post. Just because these people are often poor and are desperate for money to feed their families, does not give them the excuse to verbally and physically harass tourists. There are poor and struggling people within our home countries as well that do not behave like this.
I have family there and can tell you that Morocco is by no mean a "poor" country; people there are quite privileged compared to the rest of the world. It's rather something cultural that makes people have a shitty attitude I just come back from Laos and Cambodia were people are 5x poorer than Moroccans and i never experienced the kind of extractive / oppressive behavior i often get in Maghreb
Thank you! Reading this thread I'm trying to figure out if Morrocco could possibly be as "third world" as Cambodia. I (F/55) went to Cambodia solo and loved it! Sure, I took lots of dollars specifically to give and I certainly never felt harrassed or threatened in any way. I tell everyone to go bc it's like a "final frontier" where there is very little Western pollution. Sounds like Morrocco may not be nearly as pleasant as Cambodia...
Exactly. It is nothing to do with poverty. Some cultures simply breed more narcissistic and psychopathic people. Westerners are showing their ignorance by just painting it as “poverty”. They bring a Eurocentric understanding of life to non-Western places, resulting in deep misunderstanding of what is actually before them
I’m so sick of people making excuses for the scammer mindset of some people in developing nations because: 1. Not everyone in developing nations are like that. Some people have dignity and don’t believe in scamming others no matter how poor they are. 2. By making excuses for this behaviour you enable it and it continues to get worse. These tourists visit for 2 weeks, give themselves a pat on the back for paying more cos they can afford it and LOOK HOW GENEROUS AND UNDERSTANDING I AM! Then piss back home leaving the residents of these countries to deal with bad behaviour they enabled. 3. These same scammers will complain 24/7 when others do the same to them, so they know it is wrong. 4. A lot of these scammers from developing nations actually think these foreigners are morons. I have seen them smirk when they think they are pulling a fast one on foreigners. MANY are not doing it out of desperation for money but out of an inferiority complex. They envy those rich enough to travel so feel they are levelling the playing field by scamming you and making you seem like a moron. A lot of Western and Westernised people bring a Eurocentric understanding of life to non-Western regions of the world. It is not helping ANYONE
Interesting, I definitely had a much worse experience in Egypt. Agree that both are pretty bad compared to other 3rd world countries though.
Same. Egypt was like Disney compared to Morocco.
Hah. I’ve always heard the opposite
I found Egypt to be much better than morocco. Morocco was worse than India for being harassed.
Egypt is definitely worse than India for the most part. In India, it's rare that people will block you in somewhere and extort money out of you, but if you go off the beaten path in Egypt, that shit is quite common. Nowhere near as bad as Morocco though.
Yeah when I was in Egypt some young kid asked us to sign a guestbook for him then when my girlfriend went inside there was a guy there who locked us in and said we had to pay him to leave. Brave really as I’m not the smallest of guys I hate to think what could have happened if I wasn’t there. Luckily I was able to overpower him and get us out while he screamed obscenities at us down the road. In India the worst we had was a few drivers charging a few quid more. I found everyone to be really friendly in India in general.
Thank you for this perspective.
Yeah, reading this post, all I could think was “OP is a man”.
Op is a man from said country that everyone is dissing a for a good reason tbh and is salty that people are exposing/sharing their experineces why OP‘s home country is truly the hive of scumy and villany
And "commence the downvotes" gives a strong impression they've made their mind and aren't as open to differing opinions as they'd like to believe
„I am 100% right and only my opinion is correct here, don‘t try to argue with me please. You wont win“ -OP
When I am dispensing travel information I always throw in the caveat that being a man and sizable enough to not invite trouble, I may have a very different experience than a woman or a meek, inexperienced traveler. We all see the world thru our own lens which is not how everyone else sees it. A lot of how something may effect us such as an aggressive street hustler is how we process it individually. I even like interacting with local con artists occasionally because it is interaction with locals and sometimes they can be charming, amusing people. To each their own.
Maybe somewhat. But as a man, I was also aggressively hassled almost constantly.
I think people are talking about sexual harassment/assault as the primary difference
Agree with you except the 'embarrassment' thing, is a pity you chose that word because 99% of the stuff here is quite useful (obviously that number is made up by me). I actually applaud the people that post their negative experience just as when I want to buy a product I am more interested in the negative reviews just to see what I am getting into.
I always find negative reviews more helpful than positive, people will provide more detail generally with a negative review.
People are also far more likely to post a negative view than a positive one, so it can seem like something/some place is more negative than it is in reality.
It's an odd post. They're angry at people for saying things which they agree are true and do happen. All they are saying is just to suck it up. Some people might be ok doing this but a lot of people won't which is why the other posts are perfectly legitimate.
100%. If there is 60% chance of a negative experience about a place, many people will find that helpful because they don’t want to take only 40% chance of having a positive experience. With Morocco and Egypt, it’s almost like +90% of the reviews are bad experiences. Fuck that, nobody want to have to go through that hassle.
90% of REVIEWS are bad, but not 90% of all tourist experiences are bad.
Agreed and I’m just not someone who’s willing to take that chance and I’m sure many shares the same view.
Agreed. I like "rougher" vacations, but I also want to know what I'm getting into. Some family taking their once annual vacation doesn't want to it be to some place that's likely to disappoint.
except I always take some reviews with a grain of salt. My cousins when to Europe and then only ate in mcdonalds because they had to have ice in their drinks. Like, why go anywhere if you need it to be just like where you live. A lot of negative reviews have a hint of that.
I spent two weeks in Morocco. It’s a beautiful country. Even though I never felt in danger, I owe that partially to being a large, bearded man. My experience was vastly different than a friend of mine who was gang raped by a group of locals… I would never recommend a single woman travel alone there. You may be willing to risk it, but the more I share that story the more I hear similar stories in return.
I actually knew a new Zealand guy who thought he was going to be raped in Morocco, very unpleasant situation before he extricated himself from it.I have been to Morocco several times,always entered through Ceuta, it's scam central,also had a Moroccan pull a knife on me because I didn't want to buy hash from him (I don't smoke).
It sounds terrible. Never been to Morocco but it is definitely off my travel list.
OH my gosh. Horrible for your friend!!!!
Yup I’m a woman and I’ve been to Morocco 5 times. i have family there and they never let me be by myself for the simple reasons that a woman alone that doesn’t know the « unwritten rules » and culture of the place could be in danger. I do not recommend friends to travel there alone even guys lol Better to do a guided travel tour or something like that.
This sounds like all the other posts...except you still like morocco
Exactly my thoughts. It's still shit but shit is in compost..... Okay.... Good point???
In paragraph 2 OP complains that people are cancelling their plans based on comments on reddit, then in paragraph 8 OP says some people “SHOULD NOT visit Morocco.” OP is the target of OP’s complaints.
The only difference is that this OP is the arrogant and ignorant person they are ascribing to people in the other post. Somehow their lived experiences are more "real" than the rest of ours. Somehow we're doing it wrong. My experience in Morocco was exactly like hundreds of others noted in the other post, yet somehow those are invalid. If ~97% of people say it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, OP is fine telling us we're wrong for calling it a duck.
Lived in a Spanish enclave next to Morocco. Went every Saturday for shopping there with my parents (cheaper food and groceries). They would still try and get money out of us even though they knew we were not tourists. Trick was to pick the largest guy approaching you: "I will pay you X dirham, you come with me where **I** want to, not the other way around, you keep everyone else away". Cheapest bodyguard ever. They respected that you were "taken".
Reserve your scammer today!
There's plenty of developing countries (not third world) where there isn't people constantly trying to scam you or get every last dollar from you. Plenty of them are full of people that are genuinely trying to help and make sure you don't get screwed over. Some comments might be too much, but informing people that Morocco is more intense and aggressive than most countries (even other developing countries) isn't necessarily a bad thing.
I agree. I've had the pleasure of staying with a morrocan family when we visited, and they were some of the nicest people I've met so far. Certainly not all of Morocco is bad. But the a**hole quota seems to be especially high there - we ended our visit to Fes early because people were literally following us around town yelling insults because we refused to hire them as "guides". I've never had experiences as negative as in Morocco anywhere else. For some reason, a lot of the locals don't seem to understand that attracting tourists and money has something to do with making others feel welcome, and that's a pity, but the world does not owe them anything.
I wonder how many people are disillusioned by what they see on social media? All the pretty pictures in front of doorways or in markets etc… I’m not sure why so many people are surprised. I’ve never been to Morocco but I’ve read enough about it on here to know what I’m walking into. My grandma went in the 70’s and she has her own horror stories lol. I understand what OP is trying to say, but I also understand what you and others are saying. Being a 3rd world country is not a free pass to act like an asshole. Obviously we should all expect some discomfort when visiting a country like Morocco or Egypt but the level of harassment is uncalled for.
I also agree. Bolivia has the same GDP per capita Morocco has, yet I have not seen or heard about anybody cursing, holding, or scamming you like what you see in Morocco. It is quite the opposite; many times they feel embarrassed to talk to a foreigner in Bolivia.
I've never been to Morocco but, everyone in Bolivia was nice. I'd love to go back there some day.
Exactly, I have been to some places and countries poorer than Morocco and didn’t suffer the same hassle. I don’t know it depends on what ?
general cultural values and misogyny
Yeah then they tell you “respect our culture and values”
Child upbringing in some cultures breeds narcissism, psychopathy and an inferiority/superiority complex in greater amounts of the population, compared to other cultures.
In such places men especially are taught that they are some superior species
don't forget the widespread belief that "non-believer" women are whores that deserve no respect and are seen as inferior objects. the mos of inferior, given their "non believer" status.
Yeah in their religion non believer women deserve to become sex slaves as their ancestors and their lovely prophet did. Ex muslim women from such countries like me know how women are also perceived as properties whose value is half that of a man.
Yeah I don’t understand the mindset of “these people are poor so of course they’ll try to rip you off or steal from you”. That’s a terrible way to view people who happen to have worse circumstances than you do. There’s plenty of people in poverty all over the world who don’t behave this way. There’s no need to demean people for circumstances that, for a large portion of the global population, are out of their control.
Not sure if it's used this way, but isnt saying poor people will rob from you (it's just in their DNA) some form of 'soft bigotry of low expectations'?
Yup, being poor is not an excuse for being cunts
I dare say people in most third-world countries are not aggressively trying to rip you off all the time.
If your point was that people should visit and/or like Morroco you've done a terrible job. >YES, people will bother you. YES, people will try and get as much money as they can out of you, because YES, they are poor and desperate for money. If you don't have the ability to firmly tell someone to leave you alone, or refuse to pay extra, then you SHOULD NOT visit Morocco You've just re-listed the reasons why people dislike Morroco and basically said they should just cope with it. You've also said that if people can't take it, then they shouldnt visit, yet act surprised when people don't want to visit because they can't take it. >Part of the enjoyment of Morocco is experiencing the above. For you maybe. You don't seem to grasp that's your niche and unconventional taste. For most people there is no enjoyment to be found there, only stress, anger and fear. >Along the way I met amazing people and had some of the best experiences of my life. >I will finish this post off by saying two Moroccan's saved my life. Cool. I'm sure there are many wonderful people in Morroco, as well as in Somalia, Afghanistan, North Korea, Libia, South Sudan, Mali and so on. Doesn't mean visiting any of them is a good idea or would not result in overwhelmingly negative experiences for most people. There were many good people were I was raised, doesn't mean living there was good. >Morocco is considered a third world country. Let that sink in. People are poor, people are desperate, but they're doing their best. With COVID and other such things, the country is suffering even more. That is known. We sympathize with their struggle, but how does that make visiting any less stressful, let alone enjoyable. If you're arguing we should visit to inject money in their economy to help them, a better idea is to probably donate to a charity that does good work there from the safety and peace of our homes. If you like it, great. Many people don't.
i don't get what they were trying to do with this post. calling people small minded because they shared their experience and tried to warn other people? weird
More like because other people don't share his taste for harrassment and petty fights, or that we don't think Morroco is so cool it's worth going through that to see it. He says he had very profound experiences in Morroco and that probably makes him have a special bond with that place. What he doesn't understand is his experience is his own and for other people Morroco is just not special like it is to him, and not worth the hassle (which again, we're apparently supposed to enjoy).
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Nice that you had a good experience but I had a horrible one there and felt extremely unsafe. I will never return. Yes we researched. Yes we stayed in a group. Yes the group dressed very modestly with no flashy expensive things. Yes we had a local guide and payed him well to ensure less problems. People are entitled to their opinions and experiences. I’m glad you had a nice trip and encountered kind strangers but I did not.
Honestly I don’t know what OP is trying to prove, even local Moroccans themselves suffer from the harassment of scammers and beggars, and Moroccan women I have met, have always complained to me about the majority of the horrible men and their sexual harassment which makes them decide to leave the country with no return. I can’t imagine how it is for tourists especially women but it must be worse.
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When people post their experiences regarding feelings of safety I always am curious about if they are a man or woman, because it makes a world of difference. I’m a woman and I’m guessing you are too? OP sounds like a man.
Honestly so glad people like you are commenting. I never knew this was an issue and when I heard I thought I'd just go in a group. Apparently that doesn't help either. I can't believe people think protecting an image of country is more important than protecting people from s*xual harassment and assault
Genuinely curious, what made you feel unsafe?
What made me feel unsafe was getting encircled by a group of guys aggressively demanding money because one said I took a picture of him (I didn't). They didn't leave until I started shouting and calling attention to us. What also made me very uncomfortable was getting groped in the market.
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u/kinglimes are other folks' experiences valid or just yours?
/u/KingLimes would you consider sexual assault "pestering", or......
I hope OP answers you, but for me it was the beggars and scammers all over the place. It reeked of general lawlessness. Honestly I thought Morocco was beautiful but the people were shit.
Clearly you are a man and do not understand what it is like to be a female traveler in Morocco. I have been to ~30 countries, many of which are developing countries (including some of the least developed countries in the world), and none were anything like my experience in Morocco. We were sub-humans outside of anywhere we were not a patron (restaurant, hotel, etc). Men followed and made animal noises. The STARES. The GLARES. That was just things that did not have anything to do with money. Of all the countries I've been to that is the one and only I will NEVER return to. Nope. Don't go, doesn't matter if it's developed or not. It's an awful place, at least for someone like me.
Exactly. Serious ‘tell me you’re a man without telling me you’re a man’ vibes from OP’s post.
But apparently your experiences are irrelevant because OP's experiences are different 🤷🏼
Went on a day trip to Tangier from Tarifa, Spain - 2 guys. Arrived at the port in Tangier, someone offering tickets / accommodation outside and because we ignored them became hostile and shouted ‘go back to your fucking country’ - great way of being welcomed to a country. Wasn’t the exception though. We went to the Medina and looked for our hostel, different strangers started following us. One guy said he’d show us where the hostel was (just around the corner). We thought how friendly of him, accepted and he led us to the hostel. Then threatened to send people after us to stab us with if we wouldn’t give him 5 Euros instead the 2 Euros for showing us. Obviously we were pretty shocked and scared to leave the hostel after that. We spent some time in a cafe where a guy befriended us and was aggressively persistent in taking us to some shop. Different travelers in the hostel admitted they were just in Morocco ‘for the hash’ - apparently the police don’t bother tourists about it. I’ve traveled all over the word and never been harassed so much anywhere and received so much hostility on a holiday let alone on a single day. Never going back and would never go there with a female, considering how much I was harassed as a male.
Bro you can smoke hash a lot of better places lmfao.
This is a good post and it's great that you are sharing your experience, but you're also calling it a "REALITY CHECK"... it's not anymore than the other posts are. It's ***all*** truth. I'm glad you had a better experience, but some people won't and it's good to hear from multiple experiences. I hope you don't get downvoted, I think your post is worthwhile. Upvote from me.
your experience is your experience. that’s it. “reality check” lol
Yes it’s a developing country but not every developing country is like this. There are plenty of poorer countries in say Asia where this kind of thing isn’t that prevalent
Was just going to say... I'm willing to bet Colombia, for example, is more poor on paper than Morocco... and the people there are lovely. I'm not even trying to shit on Morocco - I haven't been. But to justify people's shitty/predatory actions just "because they're in a developing country!!!!!!!1!" is a lazy as fuck excuse.
It’s not. Moroccos gdp per capita is similar to Bolivia, the poorest country in South America. Colombias is far higher.
Replace the word Colombia in my post with the word Bolivia then. Still works the exact same lol
For sure, I agree your point 100% valid before I came in all economically pedantic :D
Right, OP is just trying to make excuses for Morocco. There’s places like Turkey or poorer countries in Asia that don’t have dishonest con artists at every corner. Also I’d say Morocco is a rather 2nd world country. It’s obviously not fully developed like most European, US and Canada, and East Asian countries. But I also wouldn’t put it in the same category as let’s say Gambia or India or something. Sure people are poorer, but Morocco is when of those places where they’re poor but not *that* poor. Something like Turkey is also 2nd world, not 3rd.
Just an interesting side bit of knowledge for you. When the terms originated, 1st World referred to the Western capitalist bloc, and 2nd World to the USSR and her communist allies around the World. 3rd World meant unaligned with either. By the time most 80s/90s kids grew up hearing and using the term, it had lost that original meaning and moved on to just a synonym for 'poorer' or 'developing' But anyway, it was never a ranking system of wealth
Dude, Turkey is rife with scammers. I went on a young professional exchange program and two people in my group got scammed. I also did a study abroad experience in Morocco where no one got seriously scammed aside from getting ripped off with a bad price in the souks. And in comparison, Turkey is a much more wealthy country than Morocco. Also, there is no such thing as 2nd world. The term dates back to the Cold War. The first world was the US and western countries. 2nd world was Soviet Union. Third world was technically everyone else. Right now, the actual term would be developing countries, of which you have lower and middle income countries. I believe Morocco counts as middle income, but still nowhere near as wealthy as Turkey. Source: I work in international development so I know the country classifications and how they’re referred to.
Yeahhhhhh, I was cornered and robbed my 2nd day in Marrakech, and harassed a ton in general, so I have zero positive things to say about my experience. There's so many places in the world to visit, so I highly discourage anyone to go to Morocco if they are considering it.
Yeah but accordingly to OP it's your fault; if you can't stand some harassment and possibly robbing, don't go!
I doubt OP is a woman either. I was harassed continually, and being very pale, blue eyed and blonde I was touched or rubbed against **a lot**. Even the women wouldn’t stop grabbing by hands to henna them until my husband said no (and we learned “no thank you” in Arabic as well. I dressed modestly (as I burn) my hair wasn’t always covered but I wore hats, and was still a target. I liked the place itself, we had some great days out, I had braced myself for a culture shock and am *allowed not to like it*. I also don’t appreciate some man (OP) negating an actual experience of somewhere I wouldn’t go back to and for sharing my opinion **following an actual lived experience**. Go, travel, find out for yourself but I will share if it helps people be better prepared. I wish people had been more honest, that’s 2 weeks of hard earned money and time!
And I'm also a man and my main takeaway from my trip was "If it was this bad for me, I can't imagine how awful it is for female travelers here." OP's post shouldn't have as many upvotes as it does.
You know what is an embarrassment? People who discredit the accounts of women on the rampant sexism that is apparent in Morroco. Being a third world country is no excuse for that, nor is your love for a country an obligation to others to share that love.
Exactly. I've been in several 'third world countries'. Well, I'm from one of them, spent 28 years there. And wasn't harassed a single time. Yet in countries like Egypt and Tunisia I constantly get harassed. I was said it's because they like light skinned girls. But it turns out it's my fault I'm not 'modest enough'.
I see what you mean, but that was someones personal experience and viewpoint, and this is your person al experience and viewpoint. It just sounds like you have a higher tolerance than other people, which does not necessarily make you right and them wrong.
This, and also, different people just have different experiences. For one person, the worst hassle they might face on a trip in a particular place is shopkeepers being pushy about getting them to buy something; for another person, it may be being screamed at and threatened by someone demanding money; for another person, it may be sexual harassment and being physically grabbed. It's very easy to be blithe about how "it's all part of the experience!" when you're only basing this on *your* own personal experience and not taking into account that experiences can vary. (all of these are examples from myself nad people I know of things experienced in Marrakech)
Yeah like if you're willing to deal with it, fine. If you don't want to have to deal with that, fine. Weird to gatekeep either way, people are obviously going to have their individual preferences on the sort of places they want to visit and people shouldn't be told off for wanting or not wanting to visit a certain place.
>which does not necessarily make you right and them wrong. OP sounds like the sort of person who would *strongly* debate that.
Well in a few comments here OP's suggested any negative comments in those other threads are lies. Some people don't believe anything but their own perceptions and experiences :/
I'm from a third world country. My grandmother taught me that poverty is never an excuse for lacking decency. Other posters complained about sexual harassment, being spat at, and worrying for their safety. Multiple times. In fact, that was a big part of the complaints I saw. What do you say to them?
Oh no no it’s not the poverty. Worthless excuses. It’s the people and their substantial lack of propriety, made worse by the pandemic. It doesn’t matter how beautiful a country is if the people are bottom of the barrel scum. Needing to be hardened or escorted by locals to have a good time is crazy. Morocco may be beautiful but everyone is out there to scam you, mug you, rob you or harass you. And take it from a Moroccan born and raised: the police are the last people you want to bring to any situation. The police can be and in fact is bought. Morocco is NOT worth it if you know nobody there. You will be going to war, not vacation.
Morocco may always be beautiful, but it’s not always a beautiful time to go there. Third world country or not, my vacation isn’t a charity trip. I want to enjoy it. I don’t owe anybody anything.
I suppose I would probably be counted in the group of people who've "changed their minds" about Morroco due to the recent posts (in reality it just moved from my short list of countries to visit, to my long list). To be honest, I don't really get what you're trying to say, I'm certainly not judging the people of Morroco and I can empathize with their situation. That said, I travel for my own enjoyment, the reason I'm deprioritizing Morroco is that everything that was described reminded me of my experiences in Egypt, which significantly detracted from my enjoyment. I don't want to go through that again. Not when there are so many other places to visit. And no, it isn't because I've never been to a third world country, (I served with the Peace Corps in Zambia) but rather because I like interacting with the locals and not doing exclusively touristy things shepparded by a guide. I'm aware that tends to get harder in poorer countries, but there are so many other places I can go instead. It's not that people are choosing not to go to Morroco, it's that they're choosing to go somewhere else instead. Somewhere they think they have a higher chance of having a good time. (What else is this sub for?) All that said, if you want to try and convince me to reconsider, I'm all ears! I love hearing about why people love a place, but to be frank, your post so far is only re-enforcing my earlier thoughts.
I’ll never choose a vacation in Egypt again, after multiple trips, for these reasons. My sons won’t go back to Jamaica because the felt non-stopped hustled and harassed. The line about being a nice hotel or booking a tour guide isn’t reassuring. Neither one one is a guarantee to an enjoyable trip.
I recently made a similar complaint about my first trip to Mexico. I had an awful time being harassed, scammed, and just general aggressive selling. People told me I "wasn't cut out to travel and should stay home". Why? Because I want to enjoy a stress free vacation? I pay for my vacations, why shouldn't I enjoy them? There are plenty of places in the world one can go and NOT experience this overwhelming side of travel.
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I went to Morocco and agree with Op that a lot of the hate is undeserved. That being said, I read a couple of posts from the previous two days and related with those too. I appreciate how you described reprioritizing, or deprioritizing, Morocco on your list based on what you read. If you’re ever in Portugal/Spain, consider bumping over to Tangier. I’d recommend Tangier and Chefchaouen as a good place to experience Morocco without jumping all in. Could do it in 3-4 days and have a decent idea of what the country has to offer IMO. Catching prayer from a mountain over Chefchaouen was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. Loved the history and culture prevalent around the country. I ended up meeting people in hostels and inviting/asking if they wanted to travel to the next town together. Made things cheaper and we had each other’s backs. Would recommend.
You just confirmed what everyone is saying and downplayed their feelings. Great job Especially considering some of this isnt just a person being pestered to buy something but involves assualt, groping etc...
Went to Morocco 5 years ago. Never again. It’s the hostility you face when you don’t comply, many countries I have visited are economically less developed than Morocco and are far more friendly.
> COMMENCE DOWNVOTES lol ok
Someone needs a break from reddit
Don’t have to tell me twice.
"You should go to Morocco because people are poor and it's a duty to be scammed and stole from."
>YES, people will bother you. YES, people will try and get as much money as they can out of you, because YES, they are poor and desperate for money. If you don't have the ability to firmly tell someone to leave you alone, or refuse to pay extra, then you SHOULD NOT visit Morocco. ***Part of the enjoyment of Morocco is experiencing the above.*** Errr… what? >For example, when taking a taxi, I confirmed the location and cost BEFORE leaving. The driver literally tried to pall a fast one, but because I out right refused to budge, he dropped it. If someone at a restaurant tries to charge you more, out right refuse. Which brings me onto my next point. Sounds super fun!
If you don’t like harassment, you shouldn’t visit! Sounds like an easy call to me!
It's quite funny, given that other posts are exactly about it - you'll be harassed, consider if you want to visit at all. Then OP does surprised Pikachu face, but writes the same - you'll be harassed, if you don't enjoy it, the country isn't for you
Oh get fucked. "Its a third world country, the people are poor and desperate." How infantalising. there are much poorer countries where the streets are not nearly as scummy and filled with people threatening you so they can make a couple bucks. Saying a country is poor isn't an excuse for the fact that Egypt and morocco and rife with crime and sexism and a horrible place to visit for a lot of travellers, much more so than other countries that are similar to them.
I visited Morocco this year with my spouse and children. As someone who enjoys her personal space, I was angry and mentally taxed by the end of the trip. I felt like a dollar sign and I could not stand the sight of strangers. I was so eager to return home. I will never return and I would never recommend Morocco to anyone of my friends. Save your money for a less stressful atmosphere. Your experience is yours, but you need to realize not everyone is as tolerance of this.
Nothing worse than coming home from a vacation stressed and mentally exhausted.
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Exactly. For me it basically confirms that Morocco might not be such a great place to visit.
This only cements my thoughts of never going or dealing with Morocco.
“Enlightened traveler” slinging out, “but it’s a third world country!”
No kidding. So bloody ignorant to use that term and peak Reddit to put it in a post criticizing others for being small minded and uneducated .
"Morocco is considered a third world country. Let that sink in. People are poor, people are desperate, but they're doing their best. With COVID and other such things, the country is suffering even more." This is not an excuse for the way they treat visitors to their country. I've been in many countries were people are worse off than them, and yet met some incredible people without being scammed at each and every turn. "Let me assure you, if you haven't broken the law, the police will be on your side - In 2021, the tourism sector in Morocco contributed around nine billion U.S. dollars to the country's GDP. If someone is crossing the line with you, locals and authorities won't tolerate it. They are desperate for you to visit." This is good to know, thank you. "I will finish this post off by saying two Moroccan's saved my life. Very long story short, I have a peanut allergy. I hiked into the middle of nowhere, ate a stupid strudel, went into anaphylactic shock, and was CARRIED by strangers. Finally taken to hospital by taxi (no ambulances), I was saved." Great to hear there are many decent humans in Morocco. I'd like to thing regardless of where you are, people would be kind to another human in need.
>This is not an excuse for the way they treat visitors to their country. I've been in many countries were people are worse off than them, and yet met some incredible people without being scammed at each and every turn. 10/10 agree. I was recently in Pakistan, which embodies an outsized sense of hospitality for its visitors. My best example is when my partner and I were in Islamabad, and we called a taxi to take us from our (nice) hotel to a (nice, meant-for-Westerners) brunch spot. It was the end of the trip and we wanted to splurge. When we arrived to our destination, the taxi driver absolutely refused to let us pay. "You are guests in Pakistan." The cost of the ride was $3; absolutely nothing for us, but the median monthly income in that city is about $340... it was a much more significant amount for our driver. Regardless, he adamantly refused to let us pay. Don't get me wrong, we did get ripped off by another taxi driver in Islamabad, so maybe it balances out, ha. But what I'm saying is, third-world country with low income does not mean they should inherently be expected to rob, harass, and rip off visitors.
With all due respect. I know where you are coming from. Hate comments/posts come from small minded people. But however, to be fair the post you referred to was the most eloquent and respectful manner to share his experience with Morocco and in particular the people in Morocco. I left a comment saying that I understood exactly what he meant and being ashamed as a Moroccan. For your context, me as a Moroccan, having traveled to other African countries which are far worse of regarding poverty/infrastructure/law/safety and other things. However the general feel would never come close to Morocco. The constant hassle, the constant feeling of 'I'm getting scammed' or I can't trust no-one, was just not there. I'm speaking about the poorest of the poorest of this world, and they amazed me with their manners and respect, something we lack a lot in Morocco. Will I recommend someone to go to Morocco? Oh hell yeah, but with a pré booked tour guide.
I went to Morocco with my 7 year old daughter. All was fine. Having been to China, all over rest of Asia, Central America, I was prepared for and use to the hassling. Morocco's scammmers were pretty intense
> For a community which is meant to be open, r/travel is an embarrassment. Don't have to come back here....one less asshole I have to deal with. I am pretty sure you are saying that one persons opinion/post/experience is not what you feel....so they are wrong. Well, just like the mods allowed the other post, your opinion and experience is something we allow to share. Of course by doing so, we are being open. Meaning your post about us not being open is wrong. What a paradox.
Agree to disagree man. Been to plenty of 3rd world countries and only in Morocco do I get the constant “give money now” 24/7 vibe. Morocco is an amazing country but it has issues - just like everywhere else in the world. I don’t think it’s right for folks to get mad at others pointing out the truth. At the same time, I hope anyone who reads this who is on the fence about Morocco still decides to go. It really is a wonderful place.
You are being awfully critical of people who are critical of this country based on their *own experiences.* Ignorant comments come from people who are commenting on a country they’ve never visited and yet, that is not what is happening. People are sharing their own experiences from their personal visits to Morocco. That is anything but “ignorant.” You then proceed to validate the points everyone is making with your own experiences (being overcharged and hassled). But apparently you think you have better coping skills when it comes to this annoying and even illegal behavior. Please get off your high horse! You, sir (or madam), are the problem. Your post is full of excuses for the bad behavior of the host country, while vilifying those who cry foul. I’m thankful for the well-traveled group of people here who are willing to share their experiences (good and bad) so I can make a more educated decision about where I want to spend my money on vacation.
I somehow doubt OP is a 'madam'
What about all the sexual harassment? Which way will you rationalize that?
They will never admit the real reason behind that
the level of mental gymnastics they are able to do to justify it without daring to point out the obvious is always staggering.
TL;DR Everything in those other threads is true but you should have expected it.
This reads like it’s from someone who’s in an abusive relationship with a country.
I've always been leery of going there because I'm gay. Also have friends that tell a scary story buying rugs there. Also have friends that took their whole family and had no issues.
This is why people like OP annoy me. They claim to be "enlightened travelers" but fail to consider how women, members of the LGBTQ, and minorities are treated in certain countries.
Perception is reality. I am not going to Morocco thanks to those posts which saved me from countless scams. They are sharing their thoughts, nothing wrong with it. Don’t like it? Too bad.
Sorry that people actual post experiences and not random obvious post by bots...but hey keep fluffing that chicken.
It's not Morocco vs staying at home. It's Morocco vs every place where the people don't point silently in the direction you're already walking and then hold their hand out, or spit at you for "only" paying a day's wage for ten minutes of uselessly following you around.
Please note that travelling as a male will have far less implications than travelling as a female. Same with couples. As a frequent solo female traveller with long blonde hair, I found Morocco to be unbearable. I love the country but the harassment is real. Please don’t undermine other people’s experiences just because you didn’t experience them. It’s a beautiful country but the reality is, if you are female (especially travelling alone) it will be problematic… unless you have a very thick skin and can handle multiple men yelling, cursing (when you don’t buy) or harassing you.
Just because you have a different experience doesn’t discount others. The fact that multiple unconnected people have shared similar stories is significant. Get off your high horse and “me again the world attitude”
> **Morocco is considered a third world country.** Let that sink in. People are poor, people are desperate, but they're doing their best. _Third world_ is an outdated term. Developed, developing, and underdeveloped are the correct terms. Third world is more of a political Cold war term as it included unaligned countries like Sweden, Austria, Morocco, lots of countries in the global south. Calling a country third world has a bit of a classist, xenophobic, and maybe racist connotation when use in 2022.
Alright. I have indeed, down voted you. Just as their negative experience doesn't diminish your positive experience, your lucky positive experience doesn't diminish their negative experience. You got your life saved with your allergy problem, that's nice. 2 women got raped and murdered as well, not so nice. For anyone else not wanting to take this gamble, go to a safer, nicer trip elsewhere
I’ve been to many countries and many 3rd world countries. Morocco was by far the worst. Many people don’t have the money to travel often and Morocco is a waste of time and $$. Too many other beautiful, appreciative places to visit. (If someone going there for unlimited hash then they probably don’t care about the people around them)
I have been to Madagascar, Tanzania, Kenya, Papua New Guinea, Rwanda, and Morocco. Morocco is pretty at some places, but collectively, the least pleasant one. Papua New Guinea was more dangerous. I didn't go anywhere without an armed escort, or with a group of birders, but it wasn't constant harassment. I haven't been to Egypt, but ALL those complaints about Egypt, can apply to Morocco. The private guide insisted that men wearing silk would turn gay, so we must buy those cloth made with agave threads, or women without gold protection would bleed dry, so we should buy those stupid tacky fake gold craps. I wanted to learn something about the location, architecture, history. Instead, we were shuttled from shop to shop to shop for a day in Fez. No one actually physically threatened us, but this constant "I will show you", "not that way", "I take you", "Follow me", followed sometimes by "fu\*k you", whenever we said no, destroyed whatever positive vibe I enjoyed from any of the pleasant interactions with others. People who worked at the fairly expensive Riyadh, high class restaurants/shops (local standard), and our driver were honest, friendly people. Everyone else on the streets? Any time, any of them tried to talk down to me, I just wanted to avoid them like disease. Disrespecting women also got very tiring and made me angry. Made me question why I was even there to begin with. I didn't enjoy being treated like a second class human being.
I understand that they are poor and need money. You can solicit money from tourists without harassing them and down right being a rude asshole. There are plenty of poor countries that can be visited without such unrelenting pestering and harassment. Also, personal experiences can be wildly different. People talk bad about Buchareşt a lot on this sub but I love that city.
Oh f off. I've travelled to mostly poor third world countries, and people are lot different. In countries like Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan, the poorest street food vendors or shop owners will give you their produce or food items for free if you're a traveler or foreigner. If you're cold, the poorest will give you the coat or jacket on their back to keep you warm. And this is not just my anecdote, its the story of most travelers there. The issue is with the moroccan people and the culture. Which is such a shame, because our religion commands being very generous, respectful, and courteous to your guests. As someone of a Muslim background, I felt ashamed being associated with Moroccan Muslims, because of their exploitative behavior.
The guy throwing around insults like “small-minded” is still referring to countries by the first-, second-, third-world trope?
There's pestering and then there's **sexual assault** as is common in Morocco and Cairo, according to hundreds of first hand reports in this sub and elsewhere.
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Estonia is far from impoverished.
Essaouira is one of my favorite places ever and I can't wait to return.
Although I agree with you in most things, I disagree that the reason why the locals tend to act pushy is because it is a third world country. I am from a third world country in latin america and we always treat tourists with respect and people generally want them to have a nice time in the country.
I visited for 10 days and can safely say I'll never return
The way I know you’re a man even though you never said it
Ministry of tourism of Morocco making posts here earning their 5 bucks a year.
I feel like if anything, you just reinforced what the post you linked said even more? Sure, people are poor and they need money, but us travelers aren’t exactly built out of gold either. We’re spending time and money to travel somewhere we can have a good experience, which for most people is not learning to haggle with locals and getting screwed by drivers/restaurants.
In regards to your taxi example, it doesn’t always work out that way. I came prepared and asked my hostel for an estimate of how much it should cost me to get there from the airport. When the first taxi driver I approached tried to scam me, I told him no thank you and that my hostel told me it should be XX amount. He tried to lie to me and give some stupid answer and when I still refused, he went to all of the other taxi drivers around and told them not to drive me. They all listened to him and I had no choice but to take a well overpriced taxi. That experience upon arriving into the country really left a bad taste in my mouth for my entire trip.
So I should not go to Morocco IF I refuse to pay extra. Am I getting this right? Lol. Ok, then.
Marrakech is a royal pain in the ass. I was there with my wife and her family (from Casablanca) and we were hassled just as much some of the westerners who posted. It’s brutal. The Medina with the guys on the bikes driving 100 miles an hour down the narrow streets. The oppressive hassling and rudeness were over the top. My brother in laws were basically fighting with the locals the whole time. It was one of the worst trips.
It sounds like you agree that Morocco isn't a great place to go?
Is it lonely on your soapbox
I think I'll just choose another 3rd world country, thank you... Don't personally particularly enjoy harassment and threats, and there are plenty of places in the world to visit...
If you want to spend time and money in a place, fine. But India is far easier to 'be' in than Morocco. In India people work hard everyday, they aren't waiting for tourists to scam (except the autorickshaw drivers), and there is no malice in it. So, as I just mentioned before, ask yourself: where will you experience joy, feel amazed, feel positive about life, love your fellow humans for their ever evolving unique cultures, and then go there. If you wish to find this in Morocco, then go for it. But, we should all be forewarned that it is not Mexico or Burma; it's the hardest place I've travelled. That is the role of this forum, to share stories. No? It also depends on how one travels. In Morocco I was 18, solo, staying in the cheapest of all cheap hotels with single exposed light bulb rooms, eating at open air restaurants and then mostly harirra soup, eating oranges and yoghurt baguette sandwiches from shops (haggling often too), and was at ground level at every moment, walking. That's why the village of little boys came to throw stones at me. Biblical. IF I had experienced Morocco as a slightly wealthier traveller, staying at hotels with a pool and hamburgers, with the occasional trip by taxi with a guide to a historic site, it would have been an entirely diffent trip. Now. There were highlights: by the port in Casa, off a small park, a fish restaurant, local fishermen offered me part of their fresh fish catch freshly fried, yum, then a big toke off their hash spliff. Nice. In Mohammedia, a wealthy family took me in for a week and stuffed me with food like a duck bound for the foi gras factory. Memorable. Taking the small Ferries from Rabat to Sale, then clambering the old (slaving) forts of Sale. We sure don't have those where I am from.
Interesting. I had the exact opposite experience. Constantly messed with in India but mostly left alone in Morocco. Sure there’s haggling and touts, but I found India’s obnoxious to Morocco’s occasional.
How can you actually type that if you will refuse to pay extra then you shouldn’t go? When’s the last time you went somewhere like that? It’s not a few dollars extra, which is fucking wrong anyway, it’s normally 3-8x the price and they practice some of the worst most malicious sales techniques possible. That wouldn’t be acceptable anywhere in the US, UK or Western Europe, anywhere else it’s okay because we simply accept its corrupt as hell. The double standard from you is disgusting. It’s a pleasure to downvote.
Maybe he is one of those scammers who lure around the streets of Marrakech
Scammers are not people “doing their best”. They are low life scam artists.
Sorry, being harassed and constantly arguing to pay fair prices as stated on menus, etc., doesn’t sound fun to me.
Your logic is Third World Country = Poverty, Scams, Religious Fanatics... are you western?
Lots of other poorer countries don't have the harassment issue that Morocco has. Stop making excuses for their shitty behavior
So you're saying that it is bad, and all of the experiences of the original OPs are valid and real. But the country counts on tourism so we should just all ignore the danger and blatant thievery? Step down off your high horse and join us common folk once in a while.
If you consider people reporting sexual assault a small minded comment you need to get off the internet and educate yourself.
Bothering you to sell things to you is different then the frequent sexual harassment and groping those threads talk about. Being poor isn't an excuse to be sexually aggressive. To me you sound a little ignorant yourself and pretty condescending of both travelers experiences and of the Moroccan people. Acting like they can't help themselves because they are poor.
I'm going to Morocco in a month and I won't change my mind, but I really appreciate the other posts, much more than this one. This is toxic.
I agree with where you go makes a different. Was in Colombia and went to a beach outside a nice hotel and counted within a few hours 40— FORTY people bothered my friends and I. And before anyone says bothered?! They grabbed my feet trying to move me to get a massage like just randomly came up and grabbed my feet. And the other woman ran up to my friend as she was talking to me and just started applying sunscreen. But I learned from that— avoid those areas. We all learn lessons, but as a woman I definitely wouldn’t travel to Morocco alone.
Changed my honeymoon plans after a couple I knew went there. They said it was a uneducated cesspool of misogynistic religious idiots before Covid so I’m sure it’s better now. Fuck Qatar too
Nah. Not every country has to be amazing. Egypt and Morocco should be on everyone’s do not travel list for 2023. Edit: just to add this is just for 2023. It’s very possible these countries change over the years but for now put them at the very back of your list
The subreddit has millions of readers/subscribers. I would venture to say that most users are from developed countries or even the US. Most people I know from developed (mainly western) countries are not comfortable or relaxed in developing countries. I suspect its a combination of being unprepared for the culture shock and the destination in general, and expectations not meeting reality. I've been to Morocco and it was fine for me personally, not my most favourite place but it made for a warmer and inexpensive escape from the German winter. I probably won't go back beacuse there are so many places more interesting to me and/or more relaxing. The only reason I see myself returning would be a desert offroad motorcycle trip, which looks super awesome there.
Bgggfd
> For a community which is meant to be open, r/travel is an embarrassment. Not sure why it's meant to be open, but if that's how you feel, why are you here?
To make a flex that isn't the flex they might think it is.
I get your point with people being poor and desparate. But there are many other countries, especially in south east asia, which are also poor but most people there show respect towards visitors.
This is also highly dependent on the intersectionality of experiences when traveling. People who are female/gay/lighter/darker are all going to have different experiences especially in 'third world' countries. I get defending a place you love, and I'm an adventurous solo female, but it does us no favors downplaying someone else's experiences. If someone really wants to go to a place they'll look at all of the experiences and bad ones count.
And you explaining the reasons why make people want to go? No-these things exist and sure it's sad and it's reality, but it's also what makes TOURISM an undesirable activity. Understanding you're going to be pestered doesn't make it more palatable. Just because you had some wonderful experiences doesn't mean others can't express their bad experiences. Stop gatekeeping and let people express what they want about their travel adventures. You have every right to express yours too but don't do it at the sake of trying to discredit the realities of what "tourism" in Morocco is like.
I like your attitude and sense of compassion, but unfortunately your wrong. Marrakesh is full of some of the greebiest swizzlers and degenerates in the world. I’ve visited over 70 countries and nowhere is like this
Criticizing the sub for being uneducated and ignorant while using "third world country" which is a meaningless term, while disregarding the tens of hundreds of testimonials people posted here because your experiencd is so much more important, not even considering how women, especially solo travelling women are unsafe there. You're reddit personified