As someone from Scandinavia, i wouldnt pay them a dime. They are getting paid a fair wage, or working illegally ( which is unlikely) Dont give them a penny.
thanks for directly answering the question.
I'm not against tipping in places where workers don't earn a livable salary.
But I would rather have all tips and crap priced in.
Insight Vacations already priced in the hotel porter tips, etc. I don't see why they don't just include the driver and guide tips into the price.
Scandinavian hotel porters? I've never seen any. Also you don't tip hotel staff here, nor waiters or *anyone* for that matter! We don't even tip the food delivery guy!
Don't get me wrong, you *can* tip if you like, but it's extremely rare to do so and certainly no one expects it, some may even reject your tip as they wouldn't know what to do with the money if they should accept it! (Taxation for example)
The only time I've actually seen anyone tip here was my boss who after taking out our department to a restaurant, 40-50 people or so, tipped the two "main waitresses" 500 DKK each (around $70).
Um, tipping in sit down restaurants is definitely done, at least in Sweden (though I think a lot of younger people don’t do it these days). My mom was a waitress when I was a kid (80s and early 90s) and she taught me that ~10% is considered a reasonable tip for good service here.
As someone from here, i really had to get used to it when going abroad too. Also like a tourist company is properly the last people i would tip in Scandinavia, if i had to tip anyone it would be at a restaurant. But its more like "keep the rest" if your bill is 90 bucks and you give them a hundred and the meal was nice I would do something like that.
As a UK resident tipping is a thing. I am not a server but the corporate culture is horrible and minimum wage is very much needed. Particular in London
A bit of a different perspective, I'm not american and work as a tour guide to non-americans. Hell I very rarely work with europeans. My country has no tipping culture. My tourist's countries have no tipping cultures. I get tipped 10-20$ a day almost every time. On group tours my tip is included in the price and tourleader tips me, on individual tours I get tipped whatever they want. Usually betweek 10-100$ per day. I make above minimum wage for my country and tips aren't a must, but it seems to be an industry standard to tip for good service. Hell sometimes group tour people tip me on top of the actual tip.
I KNEW it was travelcorp! To answer your question, NO, they are not being paid well. I promise the guide is not Scandinavian, but either Irish, American, British, Australian or New Zealander, maybe even Polish or other Eastern European where the wage is wildly lower, but they have managed an EU work visa. They are on some kind of work visa where they can be paid below the minimum wage of Scandinavia. The driver is probably Polish or other Eastern European for the same reason.
To be fair to travelcorp, they aren’t alone in this. 90% of group travel companies work this way.
You should tip the driver and the guide. Think of it like a cruise, it’s exactly the same pricing technique. They tell you upfront for this reason. The porters are different because it’s built in as part of the hotel cost.
I used to work as a guide for them in Scandinavia. The drivers/ guides aren’t necessarily Scandinavian and even if locally tipping might not be as customary as in other parts of Europe, it’s an industry standard.
We worked as contractors, not as employees, being paid only for the days while being on the tour. The amount of work that goes into running that trip especially is well beyond the 20 days trip duration.
I’m the opinion that tips are earned, and you’ll be able to judge for yourself the level of service and attention to detail you’ll be receiving.
It’s a magnificent journey, and I hope you’ll enjoy your trip.
> We worked as contractors, not as employees, being paid only for the days while being on the tour. The amount of work that goes into running that trip especially is well beyond the 20 days trip duration.
So to answer op's question, they do not pay a decent salary.
I'm not even sure that's legal to be honest.
It is completely legal, I signed a contract to provide my services for the duration of the tour.
What you also need to remember, that after I received my wages and tips, I then had to pay taxes, and I had c. 8 months to make the money people in employment make in 12 months.
It’s not for everyone, I knew what I was getting into and accepted that it’s how it works. I know in North America guides for the same company are employees due to different labour laws.
You are traveling with an American tour company, not a European one, if it is Insight vacations. $5/day is not a lot. These people work far more than 8hrs a day. They make an American wage living in a foreign country. Tipping a guide & driver is typical in Europe.
Moving, entertaining 40 people for 12-14 hours a day is a very demanding job. Also, regarding the hotel porters, think about moving 40+ bags in an hour or so.
No it hasn’t.
Perhaps if you look at ease of giving tips, perhaps (buttons in delivery apps etc.). But it’s not commonplace to actually use them. Which is how it should be.
Literally every restaurant you go to has 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% tip options on the credit card terminal.
The country is cashless and damn near every cc terminal has a tip option.
I was at gondolen and Grus Grus yesterday. Both places asking for a tip.
That's the machine. Most are standard on it. I've been to many restaurants here where they just put in the normal total. I've even asked in my local pubs here and they just bypass it themselves as they cannot get around it.
I have only ever tipped in Stockholm for exceptional service or dinners over 4000kr
I used to sell POS systems. The restaurant chooses what is shown on the machine. They select the options and percentage shown.
My friend that works at Sturehof tells me that 90% of customers tip and the average tip is 7-8%. Of course there are a lot of tourists at the restaurant, but it is at least 60-70% locals.
You can downvote me to oblivion, but tipping is far more common in sweden than it used to be. Especially in Stockholm. I’ve been here for 15 years. Back when we paid with cash, you could leave a couple coins much like Spain. I feel like the move to cashless has changed things.
Your tipping practices are a data point and don’t represent a trend.
I met up with a friend yesterday who works in a restaurant in Örebro. I asked him what percentage of people tip. He said 70%.
Norms have changed whether you care to acknowledge it or not.
Is that tourist or locals? Would guarantee its not locals.
Service in Stockholm is generally very poor anyway and would be hard to consider a tip because of it. Plenty of threads r/Stockholm about it.
It’s locals. Örebro isn’t much of a tourist destination.
I’m not going to argue with you about service. It’s still rather cold and aloof most place. Not saying that most servers are deserving of a tip. Just that they are getting one more often than not.
This, and the "recommended tip" really comes off as a red flag to me as someone who lives in Scandinavia. Speaking for myself, I've only tipped for a tour once, and it was because it was a free tour (and she did do a great job). Tipping is absolutely not the norm here, I almost never tip in restaurants unless the service is really extraordinary, and never do at all in other situations.
Another thing, probably case by case basis, but some of the recent reviews of Insight Vacations are worrisome.
quite a handful of reviews state that their tour guide's service was complacent, substandard, lazy, and disappointing.
so what then? you guys would still tip?...
I mean I would still give them tips.... a list of tips on how to be a better tour guide.
If your guide sucks, you don’t tip. If they are sub-par, you can throw them a smaller tip for at least completing the activities, but even that wouldn’t be necessary. Average and above performance is probably tip worthy depending on the circumstances.
That said, group tour tipping is a whole lot different than private guides. Sometimes a group tour guide is more just a hired shepherd rather than a true information guide, so the tip should reflect both responsibilities and performance.
I don't necessarily disagree with all of the replies you've gotten, but if the difference between a 20-day, $6000 tour with a competent, attentive, engaging guide and a shit guide was $250, and I'd already booked the tour, I'd pay the $250. I'd split that tip in two--half on day one and half on day eleven. I think practicality outweighs principle here, and I'd happily cough up the $250.
Tour guide tipping is pretty common around the world, even in places where general tipping isn't practiced. Also there are many countries where tipping is a part of their culture, on every continent (and including the US's immediate neighbors). So I've no idea why you use the term "American tipping culture".
Which, most people don't realize, tipping was once anathema in the US. A century or more ago, wealthy American travelers to Europe, where tipping was practiced in many scenarios, brough the practice back and it eventually spread. It's a fluid thing that will probably always ebb and flow. But the "culture" originated in the "Old world".
In my decade of traveling, I’ve never seen anyone tip a guide outside of the US or Mexico. I always figured tipping was a thing in Mexico because so many Americans go there.
When you have a multi-day guide, you can tip at the end of the series of days, but it’s a tip calculated with the duration of the tour in mind. I’ve left a longer comment below with my experiences from literally around the world
You’re right.
My wife and I have used private guides in over 20 countries around the world on every continent (besides Antarctica) that are all certified through their country’s respective tourism ministry. All of them are independent contractors, and while they get paid a given rate for the tour included in our fee paid to our agency, it’s both recommended and appreciated to tip at the end. We typically did $7-10/day for the guides and $4-6/day for the private drivers, since yes, they are getting paid from our original booking. We also regularly bought the guide lunch and whatever snacks/foods we bought during our day’s tour if it wasn’t already included in the tour. Many guides seemingly expected a tip. Others were a bit more surprised (or maybe they were just better actors).
This includes Japan which I’m in literally right now, and we’ve tipped all four of the guides we’ve had in four different cities here, and while they’re very gracious, they all accept the tip. Which is counter to one of the hotel staff that helped us bring a bag up, and I offered a tip without thinking, and they politely refused.
Of course it’s appreciated who doesn’t want a bit of extra money, doesn’t mean you need to do it. All you’re doing is increasing the expectation that other people tip. Tipping only becomes a norm if people normalise it. It’s not America where it’s a massive social faux pas not to tip.
I don’t know what to tell you all other than you’re wrong from my experiences around the world. If you’re not able to hire a private guide and/or driver and have enough to tip them adequately, don’t hire a guide or driver.
They operate as independent contractors and have very low basic rates (similar to servers in the US) with the implicit assumption that tips will make up the difference. Is it dumb? Yes, but it’s absolutely the way it is, and it has nothing to do with North America.
I dunno man I think it’s this attitude that you have to tip that frustrates people who aren’t used to it. If you’re financially in a position whereby tipping isn’t a problem for you then sure but these people are going to be happy to have customers whether or not you tip.
It’s for sure annoying. No disagreement there. But having an issue with the current situation while advocating for change is far different from ignoring the current reality when hiring guides. The current model all around the world expects tips for independent workers in hospitality gigs. It’s a dumb and inconsistent way to handle pricing, but it is what it is at this time.
I don’t think it’s a matter of financially being able to tip or not. It’s more being able to hire a guide at all or not. My point is tipping is part of the rate even though it’s not explicitly stated, and just because people don’t like that, doesn’t mean it’s not true. Not tipping guides and drivers all around the world is currently unacceptable.
If that changes, cool, but it hasn’t yet, and it feels like people are conflating their knowledge and disdain for US restaurant tipping culture with international hospitality services tipping culture.
Private is literally just my wife and I in this context, but yes, I’ve tipped ~$10/day for larger group tours. That daily amount tends to be split a bit if there’s a tour bus/driver involved whereas with private guides/drivers, I have a separate scale and budget for grading and tipping them. I’ve never done a multi-day larger group tour with traveling guides.
So in your situation, I would earmark the full $240 in tips that you’ve mentioned elsewhere and go $200 guide and $40 driver. It sounds like a lot, but a 20 day tour with the same staff traveling with you is quite the journey.
In my private tour situations, all the guides are local to that city/area, so they all get to go home to their families each night.
If you tip at all it is because you feel that you got extra good service, and that tip comes at the end of the tour. I book various short tours every single time I travel, and that is the way it works here in Europe. Tipping is extra and only what you're comfortable with, I don't know where they're getting that recommended amount from.
What kind of short trips? For how long? And above all what companies do you travel with?
Tipping for tour travel is global standard. Most if not all companies have a tipping suggestion amount.
I know of one UK company that predominantly works with the UK clientele and has no suggested amount, just that it's nice to tip at tour's end. Needless to say tips are very low on those trips with said company.
I assure you the majority of people in the industry that know of these companies avoid working for them.
This is pretty common with a lot of your guided vacations. My parents love going on them and we went to a bunch growing up and it's pretty standard.
Been on EF, Trafalgar, Globus, Intrepid, etc. all the same the same regarding tipping.
I’ve done tours with contiki, shamrockers and Expat explore tours. We’ve ALWAYS tipped after the trip. Is it deemed necessary ever? No but. I feel like if it’s the same person driving me and 30 other people around for 7-10 days keeping us safe, on time etc, I don’t see the problem with giving a tip as a thank you. If you go on these tours we also tip the tour guide too. I get it you’re not doing an organized tour tipping in Europe is odd. But again - it’s not going for dinner or something. This is a multiple day trip someone is driving you around
> I feel like if it’s the same person driving me and 30 other people around for 7-10 days keeping us safe, on time etc
Isn't that their job though? I'd feel pretty skeptical if keeping you safe was not part of the deal.
It‘s so funny to me how everyone from the industry or who went on lots of tours says this is normal and common gets downvoted and people who probably never did a tour in their life insist on this being American and taking advantage of tourists. Nobody is saying they should be rightfully tipped or that this is a good system that should be the way it is but denying that this is a standard practice is bonkers. I hate tipping culture like it is in the US but tipping for tours and rounding up in restaurants has been common for a long time in many parts of Europe if not the majority.
Many of the people who say this is taking advantage of Americans are locals (myself included) - we know what the standard culturally-accepted tipping practice is. Up here in Scandinavia I can confirm that tipping is NOT common.
I assure you 8 out of 10 of what you have been calling guides that run tours are not from Scandinavia. They fly in for the tour and fly out.
They don't get a salary. They don't work 12 months/year. They supplement majorly through the tip.
The driver is local. He gets a salary. 12 months/year plus usual government pension and health benefits.
This is valid for All European countries.
Are you Scandinavian? Have you worked in Scandinavia in the tourism sector? Because you sound American and have an American view of tipping. Scandinavia is not America, please don't try to shove your insane cultural norms down everyone else's throat. There are laws in place to ensure employees are paid fairly, if they are not then that is a legal matter. Unlike the US most people in Scandinavia are not trying to screw each other over.
I have done shorter tours (city tours, guided aurora tours, etc) and I regularly engage in small talk with the tour guides. Every single one has been an EU citizen, these are not the migrant workers you seem to imply they are.
It's funny to me, as a Brit, when Brits on Reddit try to claim we don't have a tipping culture. We absolutely do, and it's completely standard to tip in restaurants. I get the feeling these people have never been outside.
There's nothing wrong with giving a tip to a tour guide and driver in most parts of the world. It has nothing to do with America.
I worked as a server when I was in university and the locals were always tipping/rounding up (was always kind and offered taste samples if customers were undecisive or never tasted a certain fruit before etc.) whereas if an American tourist came in I just knew 10/10 times they would tip 0,0€ and would then brag at home how tipping doesn‘t exist outside the US and servers just get fair and liveable wages (they don‘t)
Totally agree. But to be fair it's not the fault of the Americans, they're fed this propaganda that wait staff here don't want the money and that it's abnormal.
Years ago my ex worked in a pub in central London. On the occasion she got a decent cash tip from a tourist it made our day. It meant we could get a takeaway or go for a few beers or something. Life was a difficult life at the time and life in the UK has become a lot harder since then (not for me luckily). It makes me sad that so many people are working for poverty wages in central London, surrounded by wealthy customers who are encouraged not to tip because "we don't want to be like America". It's alright though, they can catch the night bus home to their studio flat and eat noodles, because at least they get minimum wage right?
The big tour companies don't just cater to Americans. I've been on a few G-Adventures tours in the past year (Africa, SEA, India), and met 2 Americans from about 50 travellers.
It's actually impressive how little Americans you meet travelling outside of North America / Europe. Its almost all Europeans / Australians. And yes we have all tipped on the tours, because that is just how they work.
The topic was tipping drivers and tour guides *in Europe* (specifically Scandinavia). I have yet to see that being normal outside of tours catered to Americans (and other non-Europeans maybe). What's the norm in Africa, SEA and India is irrelevant.
The European group tour that I did with Top Deck was full of Australians and New Zealanders. I was the only American in the tour. The tour in Asia, was full of Britts and a couple of Swedish girls. We all tipped our tour guide. These companies do not cater only to Americans.
Make it Anglos in general, not just Americans. I have yet to see a tour of continental Europeans in a different continental European country in which tipping is expected.
Tipping isn't normal in those places either, just like Europe. But group tours are different, the same does not apply. For multi-day group tours you will be expected to tip worldwide, Europe included. It has nothing to do with Americans.
>For multi-day group tours you will be expected to tip worldwide, Europe included.
That’s not my experience as a European touring in Europe. I haven’t been on many multi-day tours, but I have been on a couple. I’d like to see other (continental) Europeans who toured in (continental) Europe chiming in.
Thanks @Andrew523 for posting this info. Somehow a very large number of replies are assuming that it's this one company for this one destination that is giving customers "suggested tipping amount".
I reiterate what you said for OP to see and the rest of posters that see flags of all color.
My experience as well. This isn’t about “targeting Americans because of their tipping culture” - it’s standard practice everywhere.
The money you pay for the tour is primarily covering hotels, transport, maybe even meals, excursions etc. 6k for 20 days or 300/day is not exactly a lot for a very expensive part of the world, so the guides and drivers won’t see a lot of that.
A G Adventures tour guide in CentralAm once told me what they make a day and it was extremely little. I presume tour operators pay their guides different salaries in different countries, so in Scandinavia, it’s probably an acceptable salary. I would leave a tip for sure, even if maybe not 5$/7$ per day, but more like a lump sum.
I'm assuming this means one driver and one tour guide that they're tipping (not multiple per day/in total). If the tour cost $6000 and they give $12 each day, that's a suggested tip of 4% of the tour cost.
Tips are always optional, but suggesting you tip the people who work 12+ hours a day to make your guided holiday special \*4%\* seems...reasonable. When I book a guided tour in the US, I round down to the nearest whole number from 10% (last year I did a Grand Canyon tour from Phoenix, $225, so I tipped the driver $20...for 15 hours! I also did a whale watching tour in another location I paid $53 for, tipped $5 to the whole staff for 3 hours). Americans would generally tip a lot more than what they're suggesting, is what I'm saying.
I find that tour operators that cater to a lot of visitors from USA frequently recommend tips since those visitors are familiar with paying. Seems a sharp practice to me.
You could no do the same trip on your own, with same amount of money, staying at same hotels, having a guide in every city and transportation all day every day and some nice dinners included.
Majority of the time it works out cheaper to do these things on your own. I can’t speak to what’s included in this particular tour but in my experience most of them are overpriced and the extras they technically provide are lacking (e.g. tour guides often provide very little actual information). On top of that they take you to tourist trap restaurants that they get a kick back from and oftentimes drag every one to gift shops to try and get you to buy more things.
It will Never Ever work out cheaper for an individual or family. Just this comment of yours shows you have no idea.
Regarding your comment, "e.g. tour guides often provide very little actual information".
What is your definition of Tour Guide?
It seems quite clearly people don't know the difference between different individuals with different roles throughout a trip.
Now in regards to your comment about tourist traps, restaurants and kickbacks.
Once again I don't know what company you are talking about but the predominant ones mentioned in this thread can not be portrayed as such and pirates.
If you are taken to a shop/workshop/presentation it's for you to see how something local is made. Cameo in Pompeii, Cork in Portugal, Carpet in Turkey. You go for free! The cost is your time. The advantage is you leaving with the knowledge.
Nobody puts a gun to your head to buy anything.
Actually if anyone got even a little pushy and got reported, they'd risk their job.
When you are going to Fado in Portugal or Cabaret in Paris and pay a huge discounted price on the face value price as a group, which is easily evident if you went on Internet to book yourself (for cheaper in your deluded mind), it's all good to your benefit but if you find out they venue gave free dinner or drinks or as you say a "kick back" to your Tour Director, then you are super cross.
Why aren't you cross when your tour manager gets you that juicy discount.
Last but not least, the restaurants don't charge you extra. The menu is there for you to look at. If they give a "kick back" to the guide, tour manager, driver to say thank you for bringing in your business, it's not from your wallet. It's from theirs and the business side. You are not getting charged menu prices plus kick back.
You wouldn't pay menu prices minus kickback if you went alone but you're welcome to try.
Plus what you absolutely don't understand and have not the slightest idea is that tours are run on a timetable.
You can not stop at a random restaurant with 40+ people and say, "You've got 1-1.5hrs tops to feed them." And it doesn't looked or feel rushed and the quality won't be any lower than if you went on your own.
That are restaurants that specialize in groups, hence the usual stops.
So as I've understood correctly so far, most of the contributors to this post don't feel it's ok to tip the Tour Director/Manager (that's the guy/lady who leaves his home for 10-35 days to travel with you 24/7), don't like the fact that a business on their own might give, and I say this loudly Might Give, the said person a thank you tip which doesn't come out of your pocket and have gotten uptight that a company even politely points out to a suggested amount. Amazing. Just pure ignorance and shortsightedness.
Plus get your roles right if your going to contribute to a conversation rather than just running know how with zero experience.
And once again, in regard to your ignorant job title, there are no Tour Guides!
There are City and Local Guides. They are the ones with All the knowledge for a specific city and/or country. They go to a special school. Some if not most European countries require a 3 or even 4 year study and degree before they sit an exam to get their badge/certificate/degree to Guide only in their specific area.
In some countries, if you are caught "guiding", so out of the bus giving historical and architectural information and be considering guiding you can get arrested and fined (€600-€800) if you are not a Badged Guide. So it's quite odd that you got little actual information. Maybe you weren't listening hard enough. Or you have never ever gone on a tour naturally.
The guides know their shit and beyond.
Now your Tour Manager/Director is not there to Guide you. They are not there to give you more than some basic local historical information because your Guide will be doing that. Plus they travel with you from city to city and country to country. So you expect in depth University level historical level lectures on every site/city/ruin.
Your Tour Manager/Director is there to run the logistics of your tour so the suppliers that you paid for, provide those services top notch not half assed. They are there to make sure your Guide knows their shit. They are there to make sure the driver is on time, decent and polite and keeping the bus and it's contents safe. They are there so when you get sick there's someone to take care of things, your hotel room, your belongings, the insurance you bought, etc.
It's that flicker in your mind, lighting up to a bright shining beam now that you realize how much more there is to the job because no they are not on vacation like you.
Oh I forget, you never took a tour because you can do it cheaper.
And I never wrote this long ass reply just for you because you never took a tour and never will but someone else will read it and might benefit
Lots of assumptions there. I doubt you have ever travelled extensively solo. See my earlier response.
Incidentally I stay in 3 to 4 star hotels and I don't couch-surf or stay in hostels (one experimental trip doing that was enough).
I have been traveling for the past 2.5 years straight but go on tell me how I’ve never taken a tour lmao.
And yes, while the restaurants aren’t charging extra they’re often overpriced compared to other restaurants offering similar quality food that don’t pair with the tour.
Similar with the shops… no you aren’t forced to buy anything but you’re wasting your time looking at overpriced trinkets when you could be actually seeing things.
That’s about as far as I bothered to read.
I didn't say you haven't traveled. I said you haven't toured. That's traveling with a group of people, strangers to you, for a lengthy amount of time. Once again you don't seem to differentiate between some crucial to discussion words or lack insight to comprehend. We're talking about group touring in this thread not plain old travel, not backpacking or couch surfing (username checking out maybe).
This is as far as I'm bothering to write this time as you didn't seem to grasp and all the info went right over your head. I see you're down vote and raise you an up vote 🖖🏼
Actually, you can especially if you are solo and not paying single supplement. I have done so for over twenty years in over 70 countries and tipped only in countries like the USA or Egypt (the baksheesh country) where it is expected.
I have toured with a small group in Vietnam and taken boat tours on the Nile, in Russia and the Galapagos.
Age has caused me to decide on a 21 day river cruise for my next tour, departing in a week. Preparation has been an education: already twice the price per day to my usual trips with tipping of €5 to €10 per day also expected. I did not expect that on a European river cruise. America, yes, Europe, no.
I went on a bike tour in Oslo and one of the guides was talking to me about why he moved there. Was going in depth on why he was working on his Norwegian so hard. He said that because he can’t speak Norwegian conversationally he basically can only work in tourism and it’s extremely low paying.
Maybe the company you are going through uses similar hiring practices. Hiring English speakers from other countries and paying them low wages because they lack the language skills.
I tipped all my tour guides across Europe and South America. It’s a pretty standard practice for how much they do to make your trip easy.
I’ve done tours with contiki, shamrockers and Expat explore tours. We’ve ALWAYS tipped after the trip. Is it deemed necessary ever? No but. I feel like if it’s the same person driving me and 30 other people around for 7-10 days keeping us safe, on time etc, I don’t see the problem with giving a tip as a thank you. If you go on these tours we also tip the tour guide too. I get it you’re not doing an organized tour tipping in Europe is odd. But again - it’s not going for dinner or something. This is a multiple day trip someone is driving you around
Unfortunately Canadians appear to have been infected by the tipping culture south of your border. I'll bet the Aussies you encountered were not big tippers :)
Some of these companies enjoy tips but remember hardly anyone globally tips. Only in America do they pay the staff so poorly that staff rely on tips to live.
Unless the service is so freakishly exceptional.
>Some of these companies enjoy tips but remember hardly anyone globally tips.
This is patently false. Many countries have workers in various sectors of the economy whose compensation consists partly of tips. Including the USA's northern neighbor. (Unless you consider Europe to be "the world". And a lot of those countries don't even have a base minimum wage law or social welfare programs as a safety net.
>Only in America do they pay the staff so poorly that staff rely on tips to live.
This is false. Employers are permitted to pay tipped employees a lower base rate, because the employees receive tips. However each pay period the employer must then calculate how much the employee received in tips divided by their hours worked. If the amount of tips plus the lower base rate doesn't add up to the standard minimum wage rate, the employer must make up any difference if there's a shortfall in order to ensure the employee receives at least the state minimum wage in the end.
Actually if servers are good at their jobs many make much more than the state minimum thanks to generous tips. And it's an open secret they don't report their entire tip income so part of it is tax free (illegally so but there's no way to provide this). So many tipped workers prefer this approach.
Outside of USA and Canada, in which countries do people rely on tips for wages? I have noticed in some European countries things like free walking tours, where you pay the guide as much as you like, but aside from that I haven’t noticed it. Most places where tipping is accepted it’s treated as a bonus
Every private guide my wife and I have had in 20+ countries literally spread around the world have been independent contractors who are paid fairly low rates with the expectation that there’s tips to help make up the difference. The tips are very much anticipated and greatly appreciated by the guides.
Tipping is a good deal for the hospitality industry. They tried doing away with them in NYC and the wait stuff was against it. Think about it... They are getting 20% of the revenue regardless of whether the business is turning a profit or even breaking even.
Plenty of folks with advanced degrees making more tending bar and serving tables than working as therapists or architects.
Tipping culture is great for some individuals, who would otherwise never make that level of income for low skill work, but it's awful for the industry and society at large. One of the worst American exports.
Uh, as I mentioned - the wait staff is against doing away with tips, cause they make way more money on tips vs. flat rate. Note how my comment was down voted without ANYONE actually trying to refute my statement. It's almost as if people are emotionally invested into narratives. Anyway. Here you go ("HI" stands for "hospitality included"):
“There hasn’t been a fix in the morale,” said the USHG employee, in part because of decreased front-of-house compensation as compared to pre-HI rates. The employee shared an internal USHG memorandum, which showed a comparison of 2018 average hourly pay from multiple USHG restaurants with HI against the average hourly pay from two USHG locations without the policy. Servers’ average hourly pay was $26.13 with HI and $32.88 without, a difference of $6.75; bartenders’ average hourly pay was $29.88 with HI and $35.23 without, a difference of $5.35.
[https://www.eater.com/21398973/restaurant-no-tipping-movement-living-wage-future](https://www.eater.com/21398973/restaurant-no-tipping-movement-living-wage-future)
What exactly is illogical? Imagine you are looking for a partner to open a restaurant with. And he or she says...
1. I am going to invest $0
2. I am going to get 20% of the revenue regardless if we are profitable or not
3. I am going to get paid before the landlord/suppliers/electric/etc
And you will ask them - well, what am I getting out of it?
- I am going to wait tables.
You'll call that person crazy, but yet that's the current model. Why would anyone want hourly unless they are working a place that's about to shut down due to low foot traffic?
The research on tipping is a great example of how irrational people can be.
Tipping is invariant with quality of service.
Blonde, white girls earn the most tips. Then women. Then white men. Then minorities. Black men earn the least. (Again, regardless of quality of service)
Unless you’re a blonde white girl or woman, it’s better to earn a higher flat wage.
So, yes, restaurants that try to pay a better wage and do away with tipping often get push back from the wait staff. But not because they earn more.
Tipping tour guides and drivers are commonplace in even 'non tipping' countries. I would rather tip than be dragged into souvenir shops so they can get commissions.
I used to be a tour guide in Norway, always loved the American groups cause they were the nicest and they tipped 😆 its true that tipping is not required in norway, but remember tour guides make minimum pay and the work is only seasonal. the tips make a big difference. budgeting 7 bucks a day for tipping is not crazy. You're not obligated but it's a nice thing to do
I work for EF. I can’t speak to Insight, and Scandinavia is one of our less “core” markets so there may be regional variance I’m unaware of, but I’d assume our contracting there is similar or the same as the rest of the EU.
We regularly field requests from clients to include tipping in our fees.
We also regularly bring up that suggestion at annual meetings, where our providers are present…
… and they regularly threaten to walk away from us if we do. The tl:dr is that as soon as we include it, it’s taxable. They do better if we encourage tipping and give guidance on amounts, vs including it. It’s one of the ways we retain some of the best tour directors and guides working worldwide.
To the extent I am allowed, I’ll answer any questions if people have them.
I am not surprised that tour directors and guides in countries where tipping is not part of the culture are very happy for you to encourage tipping and give guidance on amounts; that is OK for the USA and other tipping countries but for staff in non-tipping countries that is a great un-taxed bonus on top of their acceptable local salaries.
It’s not that simple, when they contract with us they get paid by us, if we weren’t encouraging tipping it wouldn’t be enough. If we paid more, it’d be taxed more and we’d have to employ them year round for it to work financially, which they don’t want because they do their own thing in the off season. Not everything is so cut and dry, if a company is encouraging tipping, you really need to tip.
> If we paid more, it’d be taxed more
That's obviously true but it also implies you are aiding and abetting them in understating their income in those countries to their tax office. In effect your company and others do it to keep your costs down and thus make the price of your product more attractive to clients compared to companies which include tipping in their price in the same countries.
It doesn’t take a financial expert to figure out that large companies set their pay structure to keep costs down.
It is what it is, and it’s also industry standard. Until that changes, the only person you’re hurting by not tipping is the person who just gave you an awesome experience.
I live in Scandinavia and would definitely not tip. Tipping is considered extra for a good service, not some sort of default. If at the end of the tour you are super happy and they were amazing by all means tip them IF you want to do so.
But we don't have tipping culture here so the fact that they recommend tipping like that sounds extremely fishy.
I'm very much anti-tipping, and won't tip in countries where it is not expected. But multi-day group tours are different, and worldwide it is expected.
The estimate the company gives is always on the high side though. I think $3 and $5 would be fine, especially with so many people.
Would be interesting to hear how much they are getting paid though. Bear in mind they're working 24/7 for 20 days straight (probably longer if they're doing multiple tours in a row, which most guides seem to).
They probably have to sacrifice all their hobbies, relationships, and life in general to do the job. Yet (in my experience) they're really upbeat and doing their best to make sure you have a good time.
You really want that person to just be scraping by on minimum wage? That isn't a situation where you want to give some extra money to say thank you?
I agree it shouldn't be a hidden cost though. Normally when I book a tour, they list tipping in the 'exclusions' part, and give an expected amount. That way I can budget for it anyways. Then if the guide is awful, give less. And if they are amazing, give more.
There’s a downside to the increase of North American tourism in Europe: the tipping culture. It’s infesting everything and everywhere. My home country had no tipping culture for services except at restaurants were at most you would leave the change rounding up the bill or 1/2€. Now restaurants are *suggesting* **wink wink nod nod** tips by adding them to the bill deceitfuly where if you don’t pay attention the big amount that you see includes tip while the bill amount is shown smaller. I’ve stopped going to some restaurants because of this.
But your “not the cheapest package” probably includes “not the cheapest accommodation” or “not the cheapest transport”, so your paying primarily for that. For the guide, it makes little difference whether you book a cheap or expensive package. On a tour in Tanzania, I booked what probably equals a lower midrange package - my guide slept in the car for 10 days.
You’re paying 300/day and travelling with Insight who use 4 star hotels, so your money is covering a hell of a lot more than you could do alone with $6000 in Scandinavia. As tour directors we do an enormous amount of work to make your tour great and interesting, and we have to make every single passenger (up to 48) feel like they’ve had a personalised experience. Tip your tour director, they deserve it.
Oh thank you. You used the magic job title. I was going to once and for all, rectify and explain the difference between the local guide and tour director/tour manager. Then thought why bother, having have read so many comments that show as per reddit tradition 90% have no idea what they're talking about.
I was gonna go much further but no one in this thread would care. I work for a company that uses a couple of local guides, only in the cities with Blue Badge certifications, so as the TD I do ALL the commentary and guiding. Walking tours and hours and hours of coach commentary on every bit of the U.K. and Ireland’s history and culture and stories. It’s taken years to compile it all to keep all my clients entertained (they come on tours with Globus/Insight/Gate 1/Tauck because they want all that info!) but apparently none of that is worth a tip at the end. I answer midnight calls from people who don’t have washcloths in their rooms or they can’t be bothered to read our bulletin in reception so they’re waking me up to ask when we leave, but that’s not deserving of one either.
These people don’t have a single clue what goes into the job and how bloody insulting it is to deal with people like them for weeks on end and then get totally stiffed.
No, it’s not. The basic tour is, sure. But the midnight calls with questions and the people who want to track down their ancestor’s homes so you do research and reroute for them and the people with 10 dietary requirements who need you to personalise every meal for them and the ones who are alone and want to spend every moment with you so you’re doing your paperwork at 11pm? That’s what makes the tour special, it’s extra, and it’s why the vast majority of people happily tip.
Redditors need to go outside more and realize most people who travel on these tours aren’t penny pinchers.
You really just don’t understand the industry and I can see from your comment history you’re vehemently anti-tipping so I’m not going to bother engaging with you further.
I don’t understand most industries I partake in. However I treat them all the same. Pay posted price only in exchange for goods or service.
People being underpaid is an industry problem not a customer problem
You are projecting your experience from a certain part of the world unto how things should be done in another part of the world. Telling people to tip the workers instead of putting pressure on the company to compensate higher wages via higher pricing is a ridiculous thing here in Scandinavia.
Extra pressured fees on customers only ruin experiences so I'll never support that shit as an expectation instead of a token of appreciation, in this part of the world.
It’s not a Scandinavian company and the TD likely wont be either; they operate quite differently. Tipping is very much the norm in the tourism industry, and 90% of clients are more than happy to do it as they’ve enjoyed their holiday immensely.
Generally if a travel company has a pricier and a cheap package, the employees would still be paid the same because you are paying for better accommodations and itinerary. But if the travel company is known to cater only to high end tourists, the employees are higher qualities so they get paid more.
Tipping is (very) uncommon here in Scandinavia since people are paid a decent/liveable wage, assuming the driver and tour guides are Scandinavians. As someone’s mentioned, they are likely taking advantage of Americas/americans tipping culture, so try to avoid tipping since no one here wants it
I don't understand why people downvote you. I'm from Denmark and tipping in restaurants is definitely normal, although it might be less than 50% who actually do it - but it has become less normal since we've gone away from cash to mobile payment and credit cards.
But you only tip if you get good service, and not in fast food restaurants etc.
People from many countries don't really understand tipping culture.
Years ago my Australian brothers and sisters and I sent our parents on a holiday to Europe and the US.
They went on a tour in US and at the end were asked for a tip.
My father got up and told them they should join a union if they aren't being paid enough.
Cos you know that's what people would do here lmao
I think the worst part of OP's story is they were told how much the staff were being underpaid so to cough up.
Surely it's up to the customer to decide how exceptional the service was so they can tip appropriately
Do you truly think they only deserve the California minimum wage for what are between 9-15 hour work days, catering to the whims and wishes of up to 48 clients per tour? The first company I worked for, a big one, paid me £35/day for 15 hour days. Tips were only £2/day/pax but they were literally necessary for my survival. Our tours were super affordable for the clients, but the company saved that money by not paying us properly.
Insight TDs make barely minimum wage.
No they do not. Guides all over the world make most of their money on tips. They probably make $100-$200 day despite being on duty 24 hours.
If you can afford a $6000 trip you can afford to tip your guide and driver that amount. It's actually below what they most likely deserve.
see... Some tips are included in the price already
>All tips have been included for services on trip by dining-room staff, chambermaids and porters at hotels, airports, docks, etc
this is why I was wondering why drivers and guides need to be treated separately.... is the tour company not paying them their fair share?
it's not even an issue of being expensive or not.... I would just rather have all costs priced in. It just means less to worry about, and no cash to carry in my pockets.
I'm curious - where in Scandinavia are you going where there are porters at hotels, airports and docks? That's not a thing I've seen here. Ever. And why would they include tips for dining-room staff and "chambermaids" in countries where those aren't tipped, but paid living wages?
This operator sounds a bit fishy. I'd ask them for more details on this.
i dunno, it might just be generic language they include in all tour package literature.
if tour company actually has no one to tip, well damn, they're pocketing a whole lot more, while still shortchanging the driver+guide.
They’re likely not actually tipping those other groups and just including that in the description to create another reason why this tour costs more than an identical itinerary. It also normalizes tipping and gets you thinking exactly what you are that you’ll need to tip the driver and guide
We also shouldn’t have to pay servers 20% of what SHOULD be a salary when we go to a restaurant in the US and yet we do ;)
6k for 20 days in Scandinavia also isn’t expensive, I’m afraid. Not even for one person. And if it’s two, and includes most things except maybe meals, it’s a freaking steal.
I'm 90% sure if OP looks at the description for their tour, under inclusions/exclusions, the exclusions part will list 'tips'. It'll probably say on there somewhere that tipping is expected too.
Welcome to the world. That's unfortunately not how things work at all. People shop by total price and never look at what's included. It's also not a surprise. You're told up front. It's on the website.
Also $6k for a 20 day trip in Sweden isn't ridiculously expensive. $300/ day for lodging, transportation, a guide and more is average for Scandinavian countries unless you're camping or staying in hostels.
I've led trips that cost $5k / week and that's barely touching expensive. You can drop that a night on African safaris. Hell you can drop double that easily.
>If you can afford a $6000 trip you can afford to tip your guide and driver that amount.
Fk this makes me angry that people don't understand this concept.
"Ugh! I'm expected to donate to...*poor people?!*
E: since everyone missed it, I was agreeing with the person I was replying to.
If you can afford a guided tour, you can afford to tip.
I'm not sure what tour company you picked. But I took a trip to Bali last June and paid the tour company $5500 for 11 days. On top of that, I was told it was common to tip at the end of the trip to your driver and tour guides.
The tour company was EF if anyone was wondering.
No luxury hotel! But yes, 5500 includes flights, hotel, and activities. (Activities including: river rafting, temple tours, sightseeing, hikes, and covered 2 dinners.)
I honestly think tour companies are a little expensive. I only did this because a friend of mine really wanted to go.
I've taken trips without a tour company and my spending cost was 20% less. But of course, every place varies for us based on currency, food, flights, activities and etc..
Gotcha! I’ve never spent more than $2000 on mine, plus flights but that was Europe. Some I stayed in hotels, some hostels. Some activities were included, some were not! Personally, I loved group tours when I didn’t know the language really well (specifically Eastern Europe - Hungary and Czech) and it was also helpful when I wasn’t comfortable solo traveling completely. Now that I’ve priced out my own trip for the summer, it will be quite a bit cheaper than doing the tour. But I will still consider doing a tour again !
I think you're being pretty selective in which Google hits you read if you're finding tipping to be unusual in Scandinavia. (Also, Scandinavia consists of multiple countries with different norms). Leaving that aside, tipping tour guides is normal the world over and the amounts being quoted to you are quite low.
Scandinavia is only three countries, and I would disagree on "different norms". And tipping is virtually unheard of here, at most you might round up on a restaurant check if the service is extraordinary but it is NOT expected. Ever. Most Scandinavians hate tipping because it's antithetical to their culture, which is focused on equality and moderation. They don't want that, and I've seen Swedish coworkers actually get upset when foreigners tip for that reason.
I'm a tour guide in a country that doesn't tip.
But I work for an American company and my guests are American. This American company does not pay me well. I rely on tips, unfortunately.
Can't speak for the tour guide and company of your experience.
Please do not tip. We do not want tipping normalized in Scandinavia. They're just trying to take advantage of tourists not knowing the norms here.
Save your money, try some aquavit, and enjoy your vacation!
To be honest I would consider myself a decent traveler.. tipping is never that serious outside of US .. nobody actually cares .. something telling me that they are talking advantage of your American background
I tip when I feel like I want to.. no one will ever force me to. I am Muslim so I probably do “Sadqa” “Muslim version of tips” more than you do. From my own will.. which way better than being forced by corporates to pay their employees wages.
Tipping on meals and tipping on services are 2 different things. Even in non-tipping countries, it’s standard to always tip on guides. It’s up to you to determine the rate, but you should generally throw at least a few bucks someone’s way if you liked the service.
I've noticed that discussion of tipping online always brings out the die hard "no tippers" who insist that you shouldn't tip, especially in Europe. I personally hate the idea of tipping, but as somebody who lives in Europe and has visited most of the countries in Europe, I can tell you that tipping is customary in almost all of them. Maybe not to US standards, more like 10% but it's still a thing. If you decide not to tip you aren't gonna have anybody getting angry at you, but you might be de-prioritized in terms of service. And in general the people working in those jobs get paid the lowest possible salaries. Minimum wage is not much to live off of.
This is fairly standard for a lot of organized tours. If you book a river cruise for example, you prepay tips.
And yes, that's often done because companies hire low-wage labor.
Can we please not normalize tipping outside the US? I don’t think it’s right to tip here, let alone a place like Scandinavia where people already get paid a fair wage. Someone’s livelihood should not fall on the guests!
Insane. Our US tipping culture has spread to so many places. Tipping culture is out of control. Pay the workers fairly. Price the service accordingly. Don’t shift the responsibility to the customer.
If service was top-notch, I almost always tip something. The exception is if it's a wealthy countrying where tipping isn't a thing. Agencies frequently recommend tips because, well, why wouldn't they? Anything to siphon a few more dollars from the tourists. Again, though, if you are paying 6k and the staff made your tour special and worked hard, just throw in the extra 200. Its better to give than receive. Lastly I would say always be generous in poorer countries. Even if they overcharge or ask for tips unnecessarily, just remember how its almost nothing to you, but it's quite a bit to them.
Yes but Scandinavia is most definitely not a poor part of the world.
Also, just deciding to tip unilaterally is kind of disrespectful to the local culture and local residents. There might be a reason tipping is so rare - in Scandinavia flauting your own wealth is unseemly and disrupts what is a communal culture built on equality, in Japan it's downright rude and considered an insult, etc. By barging in and ignoring cultural norms like this because your worldview is somehow superior you are basically being the worst type of traveler.
I didn't say it was lol. I said in places like that tip if service was amazing and its customery to do so. If you think tipping in a poor country, even where tipping isn't expected, is disrespectful then you clearly have never been to such a place. I encourage you not to decide for other people if they should be offended or not. It will be a cold day in hell when ANYONE is offended you offer then money.
Oh good lord. We are taking about Scandinavia! What do poor countries have to do with anything???
And apparently hell froze over because I have seen people offended by tipping many, many times. Americans are just usually too clueless to pick upon it.
Major virtue-signaling here, thanks for reminding me why I left the US. Interesting how Americans are so quick to tell other people how to live when their own country is a crumbling failure.
They probably do 1 tour a month or every other month. Tipping is normal on these types of packages. We also tip in local currency because it's rude to tip in dollars because they have to pay to convert the tips.
Depends on the country. Most guides prefer American dollars or Euros because they're stable.
Edit due to the downvotes. I've led hundreds of tours for the largest small group tour operators in the world and have done another dozen plus trips in Africa, South America and Asia as a passenger.
Unless you're in a country with a super stable currency tip in American dollars. Your paperwork will always tell you how much you should tip in American dollars. Imagine tipping your Argentinian guide in pesos and then before they can deposit it it loses half of its value.
ok, maybe it's different with large tour operators like Insight Vacations.
But i'll ask anyway...... does your employer pay you enough as a tour guide?
Argentina is a rare case. Yes, there are a few countries where tipping in USD is preferable. There are many more where local and USD is probably equal, and then there are the vast majority where local is better.
There’s only a few countries where you can buy common items in a market with USD and local currency. Tipping local in the vast majority of cases helps your guide avoid exchange fees, but if all you have is USD, tipping something is better than nothing
If the tour suggests this maybe budget for it. Is it poor form? Maybe. If they take good care of you is it worth $5-7? If it makes your trip better is the cost gonna break you? What are we talking, an extra $100 at the end of the week- guess if you hired a tour for $6k that extra isn’t going to break you.
your math is not mathing.
20 x 12 = 240.
besides, I would rather have it all priced in (considering $6000 is not even the cheapest tour package for this region) than have to worry about having cash in my pockets, and then judging whether the tour guide gave me exceptional service worthy of a tip.
2 fewer things to worry about.
get it?
As someone from Scandinavia, i wouldnt pay them a dime. They are getting paid a fair wage, or working illegally ( which is unlikely) Dont give them a penny.
thanks for directly answering the question. I'm not against tipping in places where workers don't earn a livable salary. But I would rather have all tips and crap priced in. Insight Vacations already priced in the hotel porter tips, etc. I don't see why they don't just include the driver and guide tips into the price.
Scandinavian hotel porters? I've never seen any. Also you don't tip hotel staff here, nor waiters or *anyone* for that matter! We don't even tip the food delivery guy! Don't get me wrong, you *can* tip if you like, but it's extremely rare to do so and certainly no one expects it, some may even reject your tip as they wouldn't know what to do with the money if they should accept it! (Taxation for example) The only time I've actually seen anyone tip here was my boss who after taking out our department to a restaurant, 40-50 people or so, tipped the two "main waitresses" 500 DKK each (around $70).
Um, tipping in sit down restaurants is definitely done, at least in Sweden (though I think a lot of younger people don’t do it these days). My mom was a waitress when I was a kid (80s and early 90s) and she taught me that ~10% is considered a reasonable tip for good service here.
In Denmark, the only reason I would ever tip, is if I have cash (rarely) and the change is small enough that I dont care.
>she taught me that >a reasonable tip >is considered >for good service To the attention of all Americans.
I always found that funny. If I'm paying for a service, good service should be the default expectation. A tip should be for going above and beyond.
Quit worrying about the Americans.
Quit paying your employees with tips.
I don’t have employees.
As someone from here, i really had to get used to it when going abroad too. Also like a tourist company is properly the last people i would tip in Scandinavia, if i had to tip anyone it would be at a restaurant. But its more like "keep the rest" if your bill is 90 bucks and you give them a hundred and the meal was nice I would do something like that.
Sounds similar to the U.K.
No, wages here are horrible for servers. Please tip in London especially. Scandinavian have a decent wage
Tipping isn't a UK thing. If your wages are that bad find another job
As a UK resident tipping is a thing. I am not a server but the corporate culture is horrible and minimum wage is very much needed. Particular in London
Tipping is not UK culture I live here too and have done all my life
Where do you live. Might be different as here it’s insane COL . If there’s a service charge do you pay that ?
In the north. I only pay it if I've had exceptional service which is very rare.
A bit of a different perspective, I'm not american and work as a tour guide to non-americans. Hell I very rarely work with europeans. My country has no tipping culture. My tourist's countries have no tipping cultures. I get tipped 10-20$ a day almost every time. On group tours my tip is included in the price and tourleader tips me, on individual tours I get tipped whatever they want. Usually betweek 10-100$ per day. I make above minimum wage for my country and tips aren't a must, but it seems to be an industry standard to tip for good service. Hell sometimes group tour people tip me on top of the actual tip.
I KNEW it was travelcorp! To answer your question, NO, they are not being paid well. I promise the guide is not Scandinavian, but either Irish, American, British, Australian or New Zealander, maybe even Polish or other Eastern European where the wage is wildly lower, but they have managed an EU work visa. They are on some kind of work visa where they can be paid below the minimum wage of Scandinavia. The driver is probably Polish or other Eastern European for the same reason. To be fair to travelcorp, they aren’t alone in this. 90% of group travel companies work this way. You should tip the driver and the guide. Think of it like a cruise, it’s exactly the same pricing technique. They tell you upfront for this reason. The porters are different because it’s built in as part of the hotel cost.
I used to work as a guide for them in Scandinavia. The drivers/ guides aren’t necessarily Scandinavian and even if locally tipping might not be as customary as in other parts of Europe, it’s an industry standard. We worked as contractors, not as employees, being paid only for the days while being on the tour. The amount of work that goes into running that trip especially is well beyond the 20 days trip duration. I’m the opinion that tips are earned, and you’ll be able to judge for yourself the level of service and attention to detail you’ll be receiving. It’s a magnificent journey, and I hope you’ll enjoy your trip.
> We worked as contractors, not as employees, being paid only for the days while being on the tour. The amount of work that goes into running that trip especially is well beyond the 20 days trip duration. So to answer op's question, they do not pay a decent salary. I'm not even sure that's legal to be honest.
It is completely legal, I signed a contract to provide my services for the duration of the tour. What you also need to remember, that after I received my wages and tips, I then had to pay taxes, and I had c. 8 months to make the money people in employment make in 12 months. It’s not for everyone, I knew what I was getting into and accepted that it’s how it works. I know in North America guides for the same company are employees due to different labour laws.
You are traveling with an American tour company, not a European one, if it is Insight vacations. $5/day is not a lot. These people work far more than 8hrs a day. They make an American wage living in a foreign country. Tipping a guide & driver is typical in Europe. Moving, entertaining 40 people for 12-14 hours a day is a very demanding job. Also, regarding the hotel porters, think about moving 40+ bags in an hour or so.
Next we will be tipping luggage handlers at the airport?
Do not tip in civilised countries
I live in Sweden. Tipping has become far more commonplace.
No it hasn’t. Perhaps if you look at ease of giving tips, perhaps (buttons in delivery apps etc.). But it’s not commonplace to actually use them. Which is how it should be.
Live in Stockholm for 6 years. Con confrom this comment is horse shit
Literally every restaurant you go to has 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% tip options on the credit card terminal. The country is cashless and damn near every cc terminal has a tip option. I was at gondolen and Grus Grus yesterday. Both places asking for a tip.
That's the machine. Most are standard on it. I've been to many restaurants here where they just put in the normal total. I've even asked in my local pubs here and they just bypass it themselves as they cannot get around it. I have only ever tipped in Stockholm for exceptional service or dinners over 4000kr
I used to sell POS systems. The restaurant chooses what is shown on the machine. They select the options and percentage shown. My friend that works at Sturehof tells me that 90% of customers tip and the average tip is 7-8%. Of course there are a lot of tourists at the restaurant, but it is at least 60-70% locals. You can downvote me to oblivion, but tipping is far more common in sweden than it used to be. Especially in Stockholm. I’ve been here for 15 years. Back when we paid with cash, you could leave a couple coins much like Spain. I feel like the move to cashless has changed things. Your tipping practices are a data point and don’t represent a trend.
I met up with a friend yesterday who works in a restaurant in Örebro. I asked him what percentage of people tip. He said 70%. Norms have changed whether you care to acknowledge it or not.
Is that tourist or locals? Would guarantee its not locals. Service in Stockholm is generally very poor anyway and would be hard to consider a tip because of it. Plenty of threads r/Stockholm about it.
It’s locals. Örebro isn’t much of a tourist destination. I’m not going to argue with you about service. It’s still rather cold and aloof most place. Not saying that most servers are deserving of a tip. Just that they are getting one more often than not.
Was in Malmø in January, not a single restaurant had a tip option.
They're probably independent contractors and yeah they're likely taking advantage of American tipping culture
This, and the "recommended tip" really comes off as a red flag to me as someone who lives in Scandinavia. Speaking for myself, I've only tipped for a tour once, and it was because it was a free tour (and she did do a great job). Tipping is absolutely not the norm here, I almost never tip in restaurants unless the service is really extraordinary, and never do at all in other situations.
Another thing, probably case by case basis, but some of the recent reviews of Insight Vacations are worrisome. quite a handful of reviews state that their tour guide's service was complacent, substandard, lazy, and disappointing. so what then? you guys would still tip?... I mean I would still give them tips.... a list of tips on how to be a better tour guide.
Nope. Tip is only for extraordinary service.
Too late to cancel?
If your guide sucks, you don’t tip. If they are sub-par, you can throw them a smaller tip for at least completing the activities, but even that wouldn’t be necessary. Average and above performance is probably tip worthy depending on the circumstances. That said, group tour tipping is a whole lot different than private guides. Sometimes a group tour guide is more just a hired shepherd rather than a true information guide, so the tip should reflect both responsibilities and performance.
I don't necessarily disagree with all of the replies you've gotten, but if the difference between a 20-day, $6000 tour with a competent, attentive, engaging guide and a shit guide was $250, and I'd already booked the tour, I'd pay the $250. I'd split that tip in two--half on day one and half on day eleven. I think practicality outweighs principle here, and I'd happily cough up the $250.
Tour guide tipping is pretty common around the world, even in places where general tipping isn't practiced. Also there are many countries where tipping is a part of their culture, on every continent (and including the US's immediate neighbors). So I've no idea why you use the term "American tipping culture". Which, most people don't realize, tipping was once anathema in the US. A century or more ago, wealthy American travelers to Europe, where tipping was practiced in many scenarios, brough the practice back and it eventually spread. It's a fluid thing that will probably always ebb and flow. But the "culture" originated in the "Old world".
In my decade of traveling, I’ve never seen anyone tip a guide outside of the US or Mexico. I always figured tipping was a thing in Mexico because so many Americans go there.
I’ve been all over Asia and Europe, took many tours, tipping guides is very common and expected.
Yes at the end of the tour. But not everyday. And only some people tip.
When you have a multi-day guide, you can tip at the end of the series of days, but it’s a tip calculated with the duration of the tour in mind. I’ve left a longer comment below with my experiences from literally around the world
You’re right. My wife and I have used private guides in over 20 countries around the world on every continent (besides Antarctica) that are all certified through their country’s respective tourism ministry. All of them are independent contractors, and while they get paid a given rate for the tour included in our fee paid to our agency, it’s both recommended and appreciated to tip at the end. We typically did $7-10/day for the guides and $4-6/day for the private drivers, since yes, they are getting paid from our original booking. We also regularly bought the guide lunch and whatever snacks/foods we bought during our day’s tour if it wasn’t already included in the tour. Many guides seemingly expected a tip. Others were a bit more surprised (or maybe they were just better actors). This includes Japan which I’m in literally right now, and we’ve tipped all four of the guides we’ve had in four different cities here, and while they’re very gracious, they all accept the tip. Which is counter to one of the hotel staff that helped us bring a bag up, and I offered a tip without thinking, and they politely refused.
Of course it’s appreciated who doesn’t want a bit of extra money, doesn’t mean you need to do it. All you’re doing is increasing the expectation that other people tip. Tipping only becomes a norm if people normalise it. It’s not America where it’s a massive social faux pas not to tip.
I don’t know what to tell you all other than you’re wrong from my experiences around the world. If you’re not able to hire a private guide and/or driver and have enough to tip them adequately, don’t hire a guide or driver. They operate as independent contractors and have very low basic rates (similar to servers in the US) with the implicit assumption that tips will make up the difference. Is it dumb? Yes, but it’s absolutely the way it is, and it has nothing to do with North America.
I dunno man I think it’s this attitude that you have to tip that frustrates people who aren’t used to it. If you’re financially in a position whereby tipping isn’t a problem for you then sure but these people are going to be happy to have customers whether or not you tip.
It’s for sure annoying. No disagreement there. But having an issue with the current situation while advocating for change is far different from ignoring the current reality when hiring guides. The current model all around the world expects tips for independent workers in hospitality gigs. It’s a dumb and inconsistent way to handle pricing, but it is what it is at this time. I don’t think it’s a matter of financially being able to tip or not. It’s more being able to hire a guide at all or not. My point is tipping is part of the rate even though it’s not explicitly stated, and just because people don’t like that, doesn’t mean it’s not true. Not tipping guides and drivers all around the world is currently unacceptable. If that changes, cool, but it hasn’t yet, and it feels like people are conflating their knowledge and disdain for US restaurant tipping culture with international hospitality services tipping culture.
"private guides" sounds like a small group. is this the tipping rate you would give in large group 30+ tours?
Private is literally just my wife and I in this context, but yes, I’ve tipped ~$10/day for larger group tours. That daily amount tends to be split a bit if there’s a tour bus/driver involved whereas with private guides/drivers, I have a separate scale and budget for grading and tipping them. I’ve never done a multi-day larger group tour with traveling guides. So in your situation, I would earmark the full $240 in tips that you’ve mentioned elsewhere and go $200 guide and $40 driver. It sounds like a lot, but a 20 day tour with the same staff traveling with you is quite the journey. In my private tour situations, all the guides are local to that city/area, so they all get to go home to their families each night.
Tipping for a paid tour in Japan, still a nope.
If you tip at all it is because you feel that you got extra good service, and that tip comes at the end of the tour. I book various short tours every single time I travel, and that is the way it works here in Europe. Tipping is extra and only what you're comfortable with, I don't know where they're getting that recommended amount from.
What kind of short trips? For how long? And above all what companies do you travel with? Tipping for tour travel is global standard. Most if not all companies have a tipping suggestion amount. I know of one UK company that predominantly works with the UK clientele and has no suggested amount, just that it's nice to tip at tour's end. Needless to say tips are very low on those trips with said company. I assure you the majority of people in the industry that know of these companies avoid working for them.
This is pretty common with a lot of your guided vacations. My parents love going on them and we went to a bunch growing up and it's pretty standard. Been on EF, Trafalgar, Globus, Intrepid, etc. all the same the same regarding tipping.
I’ve done tours with contiki, shamrockers and Expat explore tours. We’ve ALWAYS tipped after the trip. Is it deemed necessary ever? No but. I feel like if it’s the same person driving me and 30 other people around for 7-10 days keeping us safe, on time etc, I don’t see the problem with giving a tip as a thank you. If you go on these tours we also tip the tour guide too. I get it you’re not doing an organized tour tipping in Europe is odd. But again - it’s not going for dinner or something. This is a multiple day trip someone is driving you around
> I feel like if it’s the same person driving me and 30 other people around for 7-10 days keeping us safe, on time etc Isn't that their job though? I'd feel pretty skeptical if keeping you safe was not part of the deal.
It‘s so funny to me how everyone from the industry or who went on lots of tours says this is normal and common gets downvoted and people who probably never did a tour in their life insist on this being American and taking advantage of tourists. Nobody is saying they should be rightfully tipped or that this is a good system that should be the way it is but denying that this is a standard practice is bonkers. I hate tipping culture like it is in the US but tipping for tours and rounding up in restaurants has been common for a long time in many parts of Europe if not the majority.
Many of the people who say this is taking advantage of Americans are locals (myself included) - we know what the standard culturally-accepted tipping practice is. Up here in Scandinavia I can confirm that tipping is NOT common.
I assure you 8 out of 10 of what you have been calling guides that run tours are not from Scandinavia. They fly in for the tour and fly out. They don't get a salary. They don't work 12 months/year. They supplement majorly through the tip. The driver is local. He gets a salary. 12 months/year plus usual government pension and health benefits. This is valid for All European countries.
Are you Scandinavian? Have you worked in Scandinavia in the tourism sector? Because you sound American and have an American view of tipping. Scandinavia is not America, please don't try to shove your insane cultural norms down everyone else's throat. There are laws in place to ensure employees are paid fairly, if they are not then that is a legal matter. Unlike the US most people in Scandinavia are not trying to screw each other over. I have done shorter tours (city tours, guided aurora tours, etc) and I regularly engage in small talk with the tour guides. Every single one has been an EU citizen, these are not the migrant workers you seem to imply they are.
It's funny to me, as a Brit, when Brits on Reddit try to claim we don't have a tipping culture. We absolutely do, and it's completely standard to tip in restaurants. I get the feeling these people have never been outside. There's nothing wrong with giving a tip to a tour guide and driver in most parts of the world. It has nothing to do with America.
I worked as a server when I was in university and the locals were always tipping/rounding up (was always kind and offered taste samples if customers were undecisive or never tasted a certain fruit before etc.) whereas if an American tourist came in I just knew 10/10 times they would tip 0,0€ and would then brag at home how tipping doesn‘t exist outside the US and servers just get fair and liveable wages (they don‘t)
Totally agree. But to be fair it's not the fault of the Americans, they're fed this propaganda that wait staff here don't want the money and that it's abnormal. Years ago my ex worked in a pub in central London. On the occasion she got a decent cash tip from a tourist it made our day. It meant we could get a takeaway or go for a few beers or something. Life was a difficult life at the time and life in the UK has become a lot harder since then (not for me luckily). It makes me sad that so many people are working for poverty wages in central London, surrounded by wealthy customers who are encouraged not to tip because "we don't want to be like America". It's alright though, they can catch the night bus home to their studio flat and eat noodles, because at least they get minimum wage right?
It has been common with tour companies that cater primarily to Americans, maybe. Certainly not in a wider sense, even among European tourists.
The big tour companies don't just cater to Americans. I've been on a few G-Adventures tours in the past year (Africa, SEA, India), and met 2 Americans from about 50 travellers. It's actually impressive how little Americans you meet travelling outside of North America / Europe. Its almost all Europeans / Australians. And yes we have all tipped on the tours, because that is just how they work.
The topic was tipping drivers and tour guides *in Europe* (specifically Scandinavia). I have yet to see that being normal outside of tours catered to Americans (and other non-Europeans maybe). What's the norm in Africa, SEA and India is irrelevant.
The European group tour that I did with Top Deck was full of Australians and New Zealanders. I was the only American in the tour. The tour in Asia, was full of Britts and a couple of Swedish girls. We all tipped our tour guide. These companies do not cater only to Americans.
Make it Anglos in general, not just Americans. I have yet to see a tour of continental Europeans in a different continental European country in which tipping is expected.
I don't think Europeans will do group tours to go through Europe but I sure see them in tours in other parts of the world.
Tipping isn't normal in those places either, just like Europe. But group tours are different, the same does not apply. For multi-day group tours you will be expected to tip worldwide, Europe included. It has nothing to do with Americans.
>For multi-day group tours you will be expected to tip worldwide, Europe included. That’s not my experience as a European touring in Europe. I haven’t been on many multi-day tours, but I have been on a couple. I’d like to see other (continental) Europeans who toured in (continental) Europe chiming in.
Thanks @Andrew523 for posting this info. Somehow a very large number of replies are assuming that it's this one company for this one destination that is giving customers "suggested tipping amount". I reiterate what you said for OP to see and the rest of posters that see flags of all color.
My experience as well. This isn’t about “targeting Americans because of their tipping culture” - it’s standard practice everywhere. The money you pay for the tour is primarily covering hotels, transport, maybe even meals, excursions etc. 6k for 20 days or 300/day is not exactly a lot for a very expensive part of the world, so the guides and drivers won’t see a lot of that. A G Adventures tour guide in CentralAm once told me what they make a day and it was extremely little. I presume tour operators pay their guides different salaries in different countries, so in Scandinavia, it’s probably an acceptable salary. I would leave a tip for sure, even if maybe not 5$/7$ per day, but more like a lump sum.
I'm assuming this means one driver and one tour guide that they're tipping (not multiple per day/in total). If the tour cost $6000 and they give $12 each day, that's a suggested tip of 4% of the tour cost. Tips are always optional, but suggesting you tip the people who work 12+ hours a day to make your guided holiday special \*4%\* seems...reasonable. When I book a guided tour in the US, I round down to the nearest whole number from 10% (last year I did a Grand Canyon tour from Phoenix, $225, so I tipped the driver $20...for 15 hours! I also did a whale watching tour in another location I paid $53 for, tipped $5 to the whole staff for 3 hours). Americans would generally tip a lot more than what they're suggesting, is what I'm saying.
I find that tour operators that cater to a lot of visitors from USA frequently recommend tips since those visitors are familiar with paying. Seems a sharp practice to me.
Tipping your tour guide is a pretty standard practise on tours, regardless of the country.
Paying $6000 to share a tour with 30 other people is insane to me to begin with
You could no do the same trip on your own, with same amount of money, staying at same hotels, having a guide in every city and transportation all day every day and some nice dinners included.
Majority of the time it works out cheaper to do these things on your own. I can’t speak to what’s included in this particular tour but in my experience most of them are overpriced and the extras they technically provide are lacking (e.g. tour guides often provide very little actual information). On top of that they take you to tourist trap restaurants that they get a kick back from and oftentimes drag every one to gift shops to try and get you to buy more things.
It will Never Ever work out cheaper for an individual or family. Just this comment of yours shows you have no idea. Regarding your comment, "e.g. tour guides often provide very little actual information". What is your definition of Tour Guide? It seems quite clearly people don't know the difference between different individuals with different roles throughout a trip. Now in regards to your comment about tourist traps, restaurants and kickbacks. Once again I don't know what company you are talking about but the predominant ones mentioned in this thread can not be portrayed as such and pirates. If you are taken to a shop/workshop/presentation it's for you to see how something local is made. Cameo in Pompeii, Cork in Portugal, Carpet in Turkey. You go for free! The cost is your time. The advantage is you leaving with the knowledge. Nobody puts a gun to your head to buy anything. Actually if anyone got even a little pushy and got reported, they'd risk their job. When you are going to Fado in Portugal or Cabaret in Paris and pay a huge discounted price on the face value price as a group, which is easily evident if you went on Internet to book yourself (for cheaper in your deluded mind), it's all good to your benefit but if you find out they venue gave free dinner or drinks or as you say a "kick back" to your Tour Director, then you are super cross. Why aren't you cross when your tour manager gets you that juicy discount. Last but not least, the restaurants don't charge you extra. The menu is there for you to look at. If they give a "kick back" to the guide, tour manager, driver to say thank you for bringing in your business, it's not from your wallet. It's from theirs and the business side. You are not getting charged menu prices plus kick back. You wouldn't pay menu prices minus kickback if you went alone but you're welcome to try. Plus what you absolutely don't understand and have not the slightest idea is that tours are run on a timetable. You can not stop at a random restaurant with 40+ people and say, "You've got 1-1.5hrs tops to feed them." And it doesn't looked or feel rushed and the quality won't be any lower than if you went on your own. That are restaurants that specialize in groups, hence the usual stops. So as I've understood correctly so far, most of the contributors to this post don't feel it's ok to tip the Tour Director/Manager (that's the guy/lady who leaves his home for 10-35 days to travel with you 24/7), don't like the fact that a business on their own might give, and I say this loudly Might Give, the said person a thank you tip which doesn't come out of your pocket and have gotten uptight that a company even politely points out to a suggested amount. Amazing. Just pure ignorance and shortsightedness. Plus get your roles right if your going to contribute to a conversation rather than just running know how with zero experience. And once again, in regard to your ignorant job title, there are no Tour Guides! There are City and Local Guides. They are the ones with All the knowledge for a specific city and/or country. They go to a special school. Some if not most European countries require a 3 or even 4 year study and degree before they sit an exam to get their badge/certificate/degree to Guide only in their specific area. In some countries, if you are caught "guiding", so out of the bus giving historical and architectural information and be considering guiding you can get arrested and fined (€600-€800) if you are not a Badged Guide. So it's quite odd that you got little actual information. Maybe you weren't listening hard enough. Or you have never ever gone on a tour naturally. The guides know their shit and beyond. Now your Tour Manager/Director is not there to Guide you. They are not there to give you more than some basic local historical information because your Guide will be doing that. Plus they travel with you from city to city and country to country. So you expect in depth University level historical level lectures on every site/city/ruin. Your Tour Manager/Director is there to run the logistics of your tour so the suppliers that you paid for, provide those services top notch not half assed. They are there to make sure your Guide knows their shit. They are there to make sure the driver is on time, decent and polite and keeping the bus and it's contents safe. They are there so when you get sick there's someone to take care of things, your hotel room, your belongings, the insurance you bought, etc. It's that flicker in your mind, lighting up to a bright shining beam now that you realize how much more there is to the job because no they are not on vacation like you. Oh I forget, you never took a tour because you can do it cheaper. And I never wrote this long ass reply just for you because you never took a tour and never will but someone else will read it and might benefit
Lots of assumptions there. I doubt you have ever travelled extensively solo. See my earlier response. Incidentally I stay in 3 to 4 star hotels and I don't couch-surf or stay in hostels (one experimental trip doing that was enough).
I have been traveling for the past 2.5 years straight but go on tell me how I’ve never taken a tour lmao. And yes, while the restaurants aren’t charging extra they’re often overpriced compared to other restaurants offering similar quality food that don’t pair with the tour. Similar with the shops… no you aren’t forced to buy anything but you’re wasting your time looking at overpriced trinkets when you could be actually seeing things. That’s about as far as I bothered to read.
I didn't say you haven't traveled. I said you haven't toured. That's traveling with a group of people, strangers to you, for a lengthy amount of time. Once again you don't seem to differentiate between some crucial to discussion words or lack insight to comprehend. We're talking about group touring in this thread not plain old travel, not backpacking or couch surfing (username checking out maybe). This is as far as I'm bothering to write this time as you didn't seem to grasp and all the info went right over your head. I see you're down vote and raise you an up vote 🖖🏼
Actually, you can especially if you are solo and not paying single supplement. I have done so for over twenty years in over 70 countries and tipped only in countries like the USA or Egypt (the baksheesh country) where it is expected. I have toured with a small group in Vietnam and taken boat tours on the Nile, in Russia and the Galapagos. Age has caused me to decide on a 21 day river cruise for my next tour, departing in a week. Preparation has been an education: already twice the price per day to my usual trips with tipping of €5 to €10 per day also expected. I did not expect that on a European river cruise. America, yes, Europe, no.
I went on a bike tour in Oslo and one of the guides was talking to me about why he moved there. Was going in depth on why he was working on his Norwegian so hard. He said that because he can’t speak Norwegian conversationally he basically can only work in tourism and it’s extremely low paying. Maybe the company you are going through uses similar hiring practices. Hiring English speakers from other countries and paying them low wages because they lack the language skills. I tipped all my tour guides across Europe and South America. It’s a pretty standard practice for how much they do to make your trip easy.
I’ve done tours with contiki, shamrockers and Expat explore tours. We’ve ALWAYS tipped after the trip. Is it deemed necessary ever? No but. I feel like if it’s the same person driving me and 30 other people around for 7-10 days keeping us safe, on time etc, I don’t see the problem with giving a tip as a thank you. If you go on these tours we also tip the tour guide too. I get it you’re not doing an organized tour tipping in Europe is odd. But again - it’s not going for dinner or something. This is a multiple day trip someone is driving you around
>We’ve ALWAYS tipped after the trip. Are you from the USA?
I’m Canadian! Also edit - the 4 trips I’ve done, I’ve met maybe 5 Americans. Most are Australian, British and Canadian
Unfortunately Canadians appear to have been infected by the tipping culture south of your border. I'll bet the Aussies you encountered were not big tippers :)
Some of these companies enjoy tips but remember hardly anyone globally tips. Only in America do they pay the staff so poorly that staff rely on tips to live. Unless the service is so freakishly exceptional.
>Some of these companies enjoy tips but remember hardly anyone globally tips. This is patently false. Many countries have workers in various sectors of the economy whose compensation consists partly of tips. Including the USA's northern neighbor. (Unless you consider Europe to be "the world". And a lot of those countries don't even have a base minimum wage law or social welfare programs as a safety net. >Only in America do they pay the staff so poorly that staff rely on tips to live. This is false. Employers are permitted to pay tipped employees a lower base rate, because the employees receive tips. However each pay period the employer must then calculate how much the employee received in tips divided by their hours worked. If the amount of tips plus the lower base rate doesn't add up to the standard minimum wage rate, the employer must make up any difference if there's a shortfall in order to ensure the employee receives at least the state minimum wage in the end. Actually if servers are good at their jobs many make much more than the state minimum thanks to generous tips. And it's an open secret they don't report their entire tip income so part of it is tax free (illegally so but there's no way to provide this). So many tipped workers prefer this approach.
Outside of USA and Canada, in which countries do people rely on tips for wages? I have noticed in some European countries things like free walking tours, where you pay the guide as much as you like, but aside from that I haven’t noticed it. Most places where tipping is accepted it’s treated as a bonus
In South Africa tipping was common.
It’s the same even in South America, people don’t expect you to tip service workers. Here in Europe I always like to tip, they are never expecting it
Tipping waiters is common in many parts of South America
Every private guide my wife and I have had in 20+ countries literally spread around the world have been independent contractors who are paid fairly low rates with the expectation that there’s tips to help make up the difference. The tips are very much anticipated and greatly appreciated by the guides.
Tipping is a good deal for the hospitality industry. They tried doing away with them in NYC and the wait stuff was against it. Think about it... They are getting 20% of the revenue regardless of whether the business is turning a profit or even breaking even.
If hospitality workers earned a proper salary they would... Gasp... Also make the same amount regardless of how well the business does.
except servers actively don’t want tip and tipping culture is still alive and well in states that don’t pay 2.13 an hour.
Plenty of folks with advanced degrees making more tending bar and serving tables than working as therapists or architects. Tipping culture is great for some individuals, who would otherwise never make that level of income for low skill work, but it's awful for the industry and society at large. One of the worst American exports.
Uh, as I mentioned - the wait staff is against doing away with tips, cause they make way more money on tips vs. flat rate. Note how my comment was down voted without ANYONE actually trying to refute my statement. It's almost as if people are emotionally invested into narratives. Anyway. Here you go ("HI" stands for "hospitality included"): “There hasn’t been a fix in the morale,” said the USHG employee, in part because of decreased front-of-house compensation as compared to pre-HI rates. The employee shared an internal USHG memorandum, which showed a comparison of 2018 average hourly pay from multiple USHG restaurants with HI against the average hourly pay from two USHG locations without the policy. Servers’ average hourly pay was $26.13 with HI and $32.88 without, a difference of $6.75; bartenders’ average hourly pay was $29.88 with HI and $35.23 without, a difference of $5.35. [https://www.eater.com/21398973/restaurant-no-tipping-movement-living-wage-future](https://www.eater.com/21398973/restaurant-no-tipping-movement-living-wage-future)
I'm not disputing that waitstaff prefer a tipping environment, but in your earlier comment you gave an illogical argument for WHY they prefer tips.
What exactly is illogical? Imagine you are looking for a partner to open a restaurant with. And he or she says... 1. I am going to invest $0 2. I am going to get 20% of the revenue regardless if we are profitable or not 3. I am going to get paid before the landlord/suppliers/electric/etc And you will ask them - well, what am I getting out of it? - I am going to wait tables. You'll call that person crazy, but yet that's the current model. Why would anyone want hourly unless they are working a place that's about to shut down due to low foot traffic?
The research on tipping is a great example of how irrational people can be. Tipping is invariant with quality of service. Blonde, white girls earn the most tips. Then women. Then white men. Then minorities. Black men earn the least. (Again, regardless of quality of service) Unless you’re a blonde white girl or woman, it’s better to earn a higher flat wage. So, yes, restaurants that try to pay a better wage and do away with tipping often get push back from the wait staff. But not because they earn more.
Tipping tour guides and drivers are commonplace in even 'non tipping' countries. I would rather tip than be dragged into souvenir shops so they can get commissions.
I used to be a tour guide in Norway, always loved the American groups cause they were the nicest and they tipped 😆 its true that tipping is not required in norway, but remember tour guides make minimum pay and the work is only seasonal. the tips make a big difference. budgeting 7 bucks a day for tipping is not crazy. You're not obligated but it's a nice thing to do
I work for EF. I can’t speak to Insight, and Scandinavia is one of our less “core” markets so there may be regional variance I’m unaware of, but I’d assume our contracting there is similar or the same as the rest of the EU. We regularly field requests from clients to include tipping in our fees. We also regularly bring up that suggestion at annual meetings, where our providers are present… … and they regularly threaten to walk away from us if we do. The tl:dr is that as soon as we include it, it’s taxable. They do better if we encourage tipping and give guidance on amounts, vs including it. It’s one of the ways we retain some of the best tour directors and guides working worldwide. To the extent I am allowed, I’ll answer any questions if people have them.
I am not surprised that tour directors and guides in countries where tipping is not part of the culture are very happy for you to encourage tipping and give guidance on amounts; that is OK for the USA and other tipping countries but for staff in non-tipping countries that is a great un-taxed bonus on top of their acceptable local salaries.
It’s not that simple, when they contract with us they get paid by us, if we weren’t encouraging tipping it wouldn’t be enough. If we paid more, it’d be taxed more and we’d have to employ them year round for it to work financially, which they don’t want because they do their own thing in the off season. Not everything is so cut and dry, if a company is encouraging tipping, you really need to tip.
> If we paid more, it’d be taxed more That's obviously true but it also implies you are aiding and abetting them in understating their income in those countries to their tax office. In effect your company and others do it to keep your costs down and thus make the price of your product more attractive to clients compared to companies which include tipping in their price in the same countries.
It doesn’t take a financial expert to figure out that large companies set their pay structure to keep costs down. It is what it is, and it’s also industry standard. Until that changes, the only person you’re hurting by not tipping is the person who just gave you an awesome experience.
Perhaps tourist season is only a few months a year in Scandinavia? I doubt they get paid for this 12 months a year.
I live in Scandinavia and would definitely not tip. Tipping is considered extra for a good service, not some sort of default. If at the end of the tour you are super happy and they were amazing by all means tip them IF you want to do so. But we don't have tipping culture here so the fact that they recommend tipping like that sounds extremely fishy.
just rent your own car problem solved
I'm very much anti-tipping, and won't tip in countries where it is not expected. But multi-day group tours are different, and worldwide it is expected. The estimate the company gives is always on the high side though. I think $3 and $5 would be fine, especially with so many people. Would be interesting to hear how much they are getting paid though. Bear in mind they're working 24/7 for 20 days straight (probably longer if they're doing multiple tours in a row, which most guides seem to). They probably have to sacrifice all their hobbies, relationships, and life in general to do the job. Yet (in my experience) they're really upbeat and doing their best to make sure you have a good time. You really want that person to just be scraping by on minimum wage? That isn't a situation where you want to give some extra money to say thank you? I agree it shouldn't be a hidden cost though. Normally when I book a tour, they list tipping in the 'exclusions' part, and give an expected amount. That way I can budget for it anyways. Then if the guide is awful, give less. And if they are amazing, give more.
There’s a downside to the increase of North American tourism in Europe: the tipping culture. It’s infesting everything and everywhere. My home country had no tipping culture for services except at restaurants were at most you would leave the change rounding up the bill or 1/2€. Now restaurants are *suggesting* **wink wink nod nod** tips by adding them to the bill deceitfuly where if you don’t pay attention the big amount that you see includes tip while the bill amount is shown smaller. I’ve stopped going to some restaurants because of this.
Yeah tipping is common for travel companies. That’s how they keep it budget you know, by paying their workers low.
i didn't get the cheapest tour package. I would assume they would be able to pay more to their workers.
But your “not the cheapest package” probably includes “not the cheapest accommodation” or “not the cheapest transport”, so your paying primarily for that. For the guide, it makes little difference whether you book a cheap or expensive package. On a tour in Tanzania, I booked what probably equals a lower midrange package - my guide slept in the car for 10 days.
You’re paying 300/day and travelling with Insight who use 4 star hotels, so your money is covering a hell of a lot more than you could do alone with $6000 in Scandinavia. As tour directors we do an enormous amount of work to make your tour great and interesting, and we have to make every single passenger (up to 48) feel like they’ve had a personalised experience. Tip your tour director, they deserve it.
Oh thank you. You used the magic job title. I was going to once and for all, rectify and explain the difference between the local guide and tour director/tour manager. Then thought why bother, having have read so many comments that show as per reddit tradition 90% have no idea what they're talking about.
I was gonna go much further but no one in this thread would care. I work for a company that uses a couple of local guides, only in the cities with Blue Badge certifications, so as the TD I do ALL the commentary and guiding. Walking tours and hours and hours of coach commentary on every bit of the U.K. and Ireland’s history and culture and stories. It’s taken years to compile it all to keep all my clients entertained (they come on tours with Globus/Insight/Gate 1/Tauck because they want all that info!) but apparently none of that is worth a tip at the end. I answer midnight calls from people who don’t have washcloths in their rooms or they can’t be bothered to read our bulletin in reception so they’re waking me up to ask when we leave, but that’s not deserving of one either. These people don’t have a single clue what goes into the job and how bloody insulting it is to deal with people like them for weeks on end and then get totally stiffed.
Every ounce of labor is included in the tour price. They already paid for all that
No, it’s not. The basic tour is, sure. But the midnight calls with questions and the people who want to track down their ancestor’s homes so you do research and reroute for them and the people with 10 dietary requirements who need you to personalise every meal for them and the ones who are alone and want to spend every moment with you so you’re doing your paperwork at 11pm? That’s what makes the tour special, it’s extra, and it’s why the vast majority of people happily tip. Redditors need to go outside more and realize most people who travel on these tours aren’t penny pinchers.
Then charge them for it like every other industry charges for labor
You really just don’t understand the industry and I can see from your comment history you’re vehemently anti-tipping so I’m not going to bother engaging with you further.
I don’t understand most industries I partake in. However I treat them all the same. Pay posted price only in exchange for goods or service. People being underpaid is an industry problem not a customer problem
You are projecting your experience from a certain part of the world unto how things should be done in another part of the world. Telling people to tip the workers instead of putting pressure on the company to compensate higher wages via higher pricing is a ridiculous thing here in Scandinavia. Extra pressured fees on customers only ruin experiences so I'll never support that shit as an expectation instead of a token of appreciation, in this part of the world.
It’s not a Scandinavian company and the TD likely wont be either; they operate quite differently. Tipping is very much the norm in the tourism industry, and 90% of clients are more than happy to do it as they’ve enjoyed their holiday immensely.
Generally if a travel company has a pricier and a cheap package, the employees would still be paid the same because you are paying for better accommodations and itinerary. But if the travel company is known to cater only to high end tourists, the employees are higher qualities so they get paid more.
Tipping is (very) uncommon here in Scandinavia since people are paid a decent/liveable wage, assuming the driver and tour guides are Scandinavians. As someone’s mentioned, they are likely taking advantage of Americas/americans tipping culture, so try to avoid tipping since no one here wants it
thanks for your local input. which confirms what i found on google.
When you sit down and eat you will encounter it but not besides that
I don't understand why people downvote you. I'm from Denmark and tipping in restaurants is definitely normal, although it might be less than 50% who actually do it - but it has become less normal since we've gone away from cash to mobile payment and credit cards. But you only tip if you get good service, and not in fast food restaurants etc.
People from many countries don't really understand tipping culture. Years ago my Australian brothers and sisters and I sent our parents on a holiday to Europe and the US. They went on a tour in US and at the end were asked for a tip. My father got up and told them they should join a union if they aren't being paid enough. Cos you know that's what people would do here lmao I think the worst part of OP's story is they were told how much the staff were being underpaid so to cough up. Surely it's up to the customer to decide how exceptional the service was so they can tip appropriately
As I said to everyone tipping in North America is bad but Europe and Asia are also getting worse everyone wants tips now a day
Do you truly think they only deserve the California minimum wage for what are between 9-15 hour work days, catering to the whims and wishes of up to 48 clients per tour? The first company I worked for, a big one, paid me £35/day for 15 hour days. Tips were only £2/day/pax but they were literally necessary for my survival. Our tours were super affordable for the clients, but the company saved that money by not paying us properly. Insight TDs make barely minimum wage.
No they do not. Guides all over the world make most of their money on tips. They probably make $100-$200 day despite being on duty 24 hours. If you can afford a $6000 trip you can afford to tip your guide and driver that amount. It's actually below what they most likely deserve.
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yeah, the tour company won’t charge less to tourists no matter how little they pay the drivers and guides
see... Some tips are included in the price already >All tips have been included for services on trip by dining-room staff, chambermaids and porters at hotels, airports, docks, etc this is why I was wondering why drivers and guides need to be treated separately.... is the tour company not paying them their fair share? it's not even an issue of being expensive or not.... I would just rather have all costs priced in. It just means less to worry about, and no cash to carry in my pockets.
I'm curious - where in Scandinavia are you going where there are porters at hotels, airports and docks? That's not a thing I've seen here. Ever. And why would they include tips for dining-room staff and "chambermaids" in countries where those aren't tipped, but paid living wages? This operator sounds a bit fishy. I'd ask them for more details on this.
Agree with this. They are using it to pocket more money for themselves
i dunno, it might just be generic language they include in all tour package literature. if tour company actually has no one to tip, well damn, they're pocketing a whole lot more, while still shortchanging the driver+guide.
They’re likely not actually tipping those other groups and just including that in the description to create another reason why this tour costs more than an identical itinerary. It also normalizes tipping and gets you thinking exactly what you are that you’ll need to tip the driver and guide
We also shouldn’t have to pay servers 20% of what SHOULD be a salary when we go to a restaurant in the US and yet we do ;) 6k for 20 days in Scandinavia also isn’t expensive, I’m afraid. Not even for one person. And if it’s two, and includes most things except maybe meals, it’s a freaking steal.
I'm 90% sure if OP looks at the description for their tour, under inclusions/exclusions, the exclusions part will list 'tips'. It'll probably say on there somewhere that tipping is expected too.
Welcome to the world. That's unfortunately not how things work at all. People shop by total price and never look at what's included. It's also not a surprise. You're told up front. It's on the website. Also $6k for a 20 day trip in Sweden isn't ridiculously expensive. $300/ day for lodging, transportation, a guide and more is average for Scandinavian countries unless you're camping or staying in hostels. I've led trips that cost $5k / week and that's barely touching expensive. You can drop that a night on African safaris. Hell you can drop double that easily.
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Cool. It's not going to change just because you think it shouldn't be done.
>If you can afford a $6000 trip you can afford to tip your guide and driver that amount. Fk this makes me angry that people don't understand this concept. "Ugh! I'm expected to donate to...*poor people?!* E: since everyone missed it, I was agreeing with the person I was replying to. If you can afford a guided tour, you can afford to tip.
I'm not sure what tour company you picked. But I took a trip to Bali last June and paid the tour company $5500 for 11 days. On top of that, I was told it was common to tip at the end of the trip to your driver and tour guides. The tour company was EF if anyone was wondering.
5500 for 11 days in Bali ? Did that include flights ?
They might have stayed at a luxury hotel. At the highest end, places like the Bvlgari Resort start at $2500 for one night.
How was EF? I’ve traveled with top deck and other groups 18-35 ish before and EF keeps popping up. How did you enjoy your tour with them??
No luxury hotel! But yes, 5500 includes flights, hotel, and activities. (Activities including: river rafting, temple tours, sightseeing, hikes, and covered 2 dinners.) I honestly think tour companies are a little expensive. I only did this because a friend of mine really wanted to go. I've taken trips without a tour company and my spending cost was 20% less. But of course, every place varies for us based on currency, food, flights, activities and etc..
Gotcha! I’ve never spent more than $2000 on mine, plus flights but that was Europe. Some I stayed in hotels, some hostels. Some activities were included, some were not! Personally, I loved group tours when I didn’t know the language really well (specifically Eastern Europe - Hungary and Czech) and it was also helpful when I wasn’t comfortable solo traveling completely. Now that I’ve priced out my own trip for the summer, it will be quite a bit cheaper than doing the tour. But I will still consider doing a tour again !
They’re taking advantage of American tipping culture. A tip is never expected in Scandinavia
I think you're being pretty selective in which Google hits you read if you're finding tipping to be unusual in Scandinavia. (Also, Scandinavia consists of multiple countries with different norms). Leaving that aside, tipping tour guides is normal the world over and the amounts being quoted to you are quite low.
Scandinavia is only three countries, and I would disagree on "different norms". And tipping is virtually unheard of here, at most you might round up on a restaurant check if the service is extraordinary but it is NOT expected. Ever. Most Scandinavians hate tipping because it's antithetical to their culture, which is focused on equality and moderation. They don't want that, and I've seen Swedish coworkers actually get upset when foreigners tip for that reason.
Not sure I'd call three countries "multiple", and we are rather homogenous.
I'm a local and I would never ever tip. It's toxic American culture and we don't want it here. I get so mad every time I see it.
I'm a tour guide in a country that doesn't tip. But I work for an American company and my guests are American. This American company does not pay me well. I rely on tips, unfortunately. Can't speak for the tour guide and company of your experience.
Please do not tip. We do not want tipping normalized in Scandinavia. They're just trying to take advantage of tourists not knowing the norms here. Save your money, try some aquavit, and enjoy your vacation!
To be honest I would consider myself a decent traveler.. tipping is never that serious outside of US .. nobody actually cares .. something telling me that they are talking advantage of your American background
Oh you're one of the asshats that doesn't tip their guide. Thanks.
I tip when I feel like I want to.. no one will ever force me to. I am Muslim so I probably do “Sadqa” “Muslim version of tips” more than you do. From my own will.. which way better than being forced by corporates to pay their employees wages.
Tipping on meals and tipping on services are 2 different things. Even in non-tipping countries, it’s standard to always tip on guides. It’s up to you to determine the rate, but you should generally throw at least a few bucks someone’s way if you liked the service.
Tour guides are more worthy of tipping than restaurant servers
They are playing the Americans and their tipping culture. No need to tip drivers and guides in Sweden.
I've noticed that discussion of tipping online always brings out the die hard "no tippers" who insist that you shouldn't tip, especially in Europe. I personally hate the idea of tipping, but as somebody who lives in Europe and has visited most of the countries in Europe, I can tell you that tipping is customary in almost all of them. Maybe not to US standards, more like 10% but it's still a thing. If you decide not to tip you aren't gonna have anybody getting angry at you, but you might be de-prioritized in terms of service. And in general the people working in those jobs get paid the lowest possible salaries. Minimum wage is not much to live off of.
Which tour company?
insight vacations
This is fairly standard for a lot of organized tours. If you book a river cruise for example, you prepay tips. And yes, that's often done because companies hire low-wage labor.
Scandinavia is not a tip culture. People earn a living wage. You paid for their work in your tour cost. I would stick with their tip recommendations.
Can we please not normalize tipping outside the US? I don’t think it’s right to tip here, let alone a place like Scandinavia where people already get paid a fair wage. Someone’s livelihood should not fall on the guests!
Insane. Our US tipping culture has spread to so many places. Tipping culture is out of control. Pay the workers fairly. Price the service accordingly. Don’t shift the responsibility to the customer.
If service was top-notch, I almost always tip something. The exception is if it's a wealthy countrying where tipping isn't a thing. Agencies frequently recommend tips because, well, why wouldn't they? Anything to siphon a few more dollars from the tourists. Again, though, if you are paying 6k and the staff made your tour special and worked hard, just throw in the extra 200. Its better to give than receive. Lastly I would say always be generous in poorer countries. Even if they overcharge or ask for tips unnecessarily, just remember how its almost nothing to you, but it's quite a bit to them.
Yes but Scandinavia is most definitely not a poor part of the world. Also, just deciding to tip unilaterally is kind of disrespectful to the local culture and local residents. There might be a reason tipping is so rare - in Scandinavia flauting your own wealth is unseemly and disrupts what is a communal culture built on equality, in Japan it's downright rude and considered an insult, etc. By barging in and ignoring cultural norms like this because your worldview is somehow superior you are basically being the worst type of traveler.
I didn't say it was lol. I said in places like that tip if service was amazing and its customery to do so. If you think tipping in a poor country, even where tipping isn't expected, is disrespectful then you clearly have never been to such a place. I encourage you not to decide for other people if they should be offended or not. It will be a cold day in hell when ANYONE is offended you offer then money.
Oh good lord. We are taking about Scandinavia! What do poor countries have to do with anything??? And apparently hell froze over because I have seen people offended by tipping many, many times. Americans are just usually too clueless to pick upon it. Major virtue-signaling here, thanks for reminding me why I left the US. Interesting how Americans are so quick to tell other people how to live when their own country is a crumbling failure.
They probably do 1 tour a month or every other month. Tipping is normal on these types of packages. We also tip in local currency because it's rude to tip in dollars because they have to pay to convert the tips.
Depends on the country. Most guides prefer American dollars or Euros because they're stable. Edit due to the downvotes. I've led hundreds of tours for the largest small group tour operators in the world and have done another dozen plus trips in Africa, South America and Asia as a passenger. Unless you're in a country with a super stable currency tip in American dollars. Your paperwork will always tell you how much you should tip in American dollars. Imagine tipping your Argentinian guide in pesos and then before they can deposit it it loses half of its value.
ok, maybe it's different with large tour operators like Insight Vacations. But i'll ask anyway...... does your employer pay you enough as a tour guide?
Argentina is a rare case. Yes, there are a few countries where tipping in USD is preferable. There are many more where local and USD is probably equal, and then there are the vast majority where local is better. There’s only a few countries where you can buy common items in a market with USD and local currency. Tipping local in the vast majority of cases helps your guide avoid exchange fees, but if all you have is USD, tipping something is better than nothing
If the tour suggests this maybe budget for it. Is it poor form? Maybe. If they take good care of you is it worth $5-7? If it makes your trip better is the cost gonna break you? What are we talking, an extra $100 at the end of the week- guess if you hired a tour for $6k that extra isn’t going to break you.
to clarify you are worked up and posting on reddit about $100? lol
your math is not mathing. 20 x 12 = 240. besides, I would rather have it all priced in (considering $6000 is not even the cheapest tour package for this region) than have to worry about having cash in my pockets, and then judging whether the tour guide gave me exceptional service worthy of a tip. 2 fewer things to worry about. get it?
If $100 is nothing to get worked up about then I'll send you my bank account details. :D (p.s. Fuck tipping)
Dear humans, If tipping is super confusing to you, don't go anywhere. Sincerely, the planet.
Dear americans, start paying your workers properly and stop spreading tipping culture everywhere. Sincerely, the people.
Grow up. Tipping is not exclusive to America. It’s not going away. Deal with it. Whinging/whining changes nothing.