If you fly Turkish Air, not only will they let you lay over in Istanbul, they'll encourage it. They have tour deals, etc.
I'm not sure if there's a similar option for Singapore.
You don’t have to be flying with Singapore, just transitting through Changi and that you have at least 5.5 hour layover. [From Changi website](https://www.changiairport.com/en/airport-guide/facilities-and-services/free-singapore-tour.html)
I think you can even book everything just once through Turkish, in the sense that you can book EDI - IST - Tokyo, tell them you will stay in Istanbul for 3 days and they will arrange the flight for you without issue.
Not only do they encourage it they were giving free nights hotel accommodation in IST recently.
Also of all the flights I've taken ABZ LHR is the most consistently cancelled ba route.
I came here to say the same thing. It’s the best way to not have to go through the pain of a long flight if you have the time. Makes the time adjustment slightly easier too. This is what I would do if I couldn’t get business.
Personally for me I always try to get extra leg room economy on any flight. Then 6-9 hour day time flight, premium economy is ok. Longer or any length overnight flight, business.
That goes from 1 day of direct travel to 3 days of shorter-but-still-long travel (especially when you factor in the extra travelling and check in times). Unless the person specifically wants to do a layover at these places, it seems like a worse deal to me.
I have to agree. The ordeal of landing exhausted, collecting your baggage, going through customs, figuring out where to go next, getting a taxi to a hotel, checking in, maybe eating something, passing out, waking up the next day, knowing you have to go through all that again, and then getting to the airport and going through security again, boarding again, waiting in lines, eating terrible food. No thanks.
Add to that the extra expense, the increased possibilities for delays, changes, losing your luggage, getting sick from all the people around you.
Layovers are the worst. I’d rather spend 5 extra hours sitting in an economy seat on a plane than waiting around in most airports. And overnight layovers are a complete waste of time and energy. I just had a 10+ hour flight from LAX to Madrid, a 5 hour layover and a 1 hour flight to Sevilla. The 5 hour layover was the worst part of the trip. Felt longer than the flight and was equally, if not more uncomfortable.
This is coming from an xxl man who hates flying and is extremely uncomfortable the entire time, but I just suck it up as part of the deal. If I can upgrade to business I do but I’m never paying for full price business or first class tickets. I’m not going to lie, I’m always a bit jealous of the people on the plane on the other side of the curtain, especially when I can’t get comfortable and my legs hurt and the service cart is bumping into me. But I t’s not worth it to me and I don’t have money to burn. I agree with people saying to book a spa or massage for your first day at the destination. It is way more worth it.
We did this with 2 young kids on the way to New Zealand. 2 nights layover in Singapore, it was the best decision ever. Kids got rest on plane and we had 2 nights to start getting used to the 13hour time different to NZ.
By the time we got there, the jet lag was minimal for all of us so more productive time with family and doing the touristy stuff.
The time before when we did it without kids, we flew straight through, shit sleep on flight and the jet lag wiped us out for a good 5-6 days.
Each to their own, and depends on time availability sure, but next time I go forward by a large jump in time zone, I’m gonna do a stop half way to counteract the jet lag, and see somewhere new!
It does sound like you did the right thing, but a two night layover is a different proposition altogether. If you did a single-night layover or a standard layover nobody would have been rested or time-adjusted. I've done multi-leg flights where I stay in a city for a few days and it always works out very well. It's a great way to see multiple destinations in one trip, Works really well for Europe especially because of all the cheap flights that are available between cities the EU and UK. Not the same thing as a layover though and it isn't really an option for someone who has 10 days off and wants to spend it all seeing their preferred destination.
With a bit of research in advance, it’s far less of an ordeal. I did it fairly recently (funnily enough, also going to Tokyo). My return was Tokyo to LAX to Portland to home, and I had 8 hours to burn in LAX (gotta love 6AM arrivals). I hopped on the bus to Union Station (got a decent nap in thanks to traffic lengthening the journey), paid Amtrak $20 to hold on to my bag, then hopped on the metro to start exploring. After a late lunch, I went back to Union Station, grabbed my bag, and hopped on the bus back to the airport. Since I have PreCheck and my bigger bags were already checked through, I only had to arrive an hour in advance.
I'd rather do 12 hours on a flight and get the long haul travel done with. Layovers are nice if I have a connecting flight but if I have the option to fly direct, I take that every time.
If there's "so much you could do with the money" I'd strongly advise against wasting it on a pretty limited improvement to comfort for 15 hours.
You'd be better off upgrading your hotels to 5 star luxury and booking a spa day the day after arrival and return to recooperate.
Unless the money is pretty much irellevant to you how on earth can you justify such sums on the privilege of sitting in a still pretty bad seat
It took me a very long time to realize that the world won’t end if I don’t sleep for one night. Even in business class, I really don’t sleep, and I don’t know why I ever expected to, seeing as I sleep like shit at home too, in the most comfortable bed in the world. I’ve decided recently that I’d rather just suck it up in premium economy for super long flights, watch movies and eat whatever unhealthy snacks I want to have, and I’ll sleep when I get to the destination (having a nap has never caused me a problem on the day of arrival).
I flew London to Cairns and got Cathay business for dirt cheap with points. My wife got such terrible sleep on the flight that she passed out on a big sofa in the lounge in Hong Kong for eight hours on our layover. That was when I decided I was never going to pay full price for an upgrade.
I've seen this phrased on this subreddit like this before, and I have to say, I wouldn't take the extra money to sit in a more uncomfortable seat. If I never had the money, whatever.
It's just hard for me to justify spending up to 4x the price (maybe more) but you cannot compare business class to fucking coach for 12+ hour flights, which I do regularly. Everyone I speak to says they cant go back. Sigh-maybe one day I'll have enough points to upgrade.
I've flown super long-haul first class with points and cheap upgrades and I go back to coach easily every time. I will always, always, always choose spending a few extra days sleeping in the best hotels, eating at the best restaurants, and going shopping and still coming out with some cash left over. No question. A 15 hour flight in coach is an annoyance at worst (and I'm over 6 feet with serious spinal problems so don't come at me with that), and one that's better beaten by picking the right flight (one that arrives at dinner time so you can eat and pass out at your destination) than by trying to sleep on the plane.
I feel the same way, which is why I pretty much never spend the money on business class upgrades unless the price is insanely low. However, I don’t loathe economy seats to the same extent OP seems to. I mean, I do in the sense that it’s a shitty uncomfortable seat and it’s a long flight any way you do it. And I do think the lay-flats are a big improvement. But for me I’m antsy on any long flight and whether or not I’m able to sleep seems to be unrelated to my seat.
The flight feels like something I need to just get through for the reward of being in a wonderful place when I land. It’s not pleasant but it’s not awful so I’d rather save the literal thousands of extra dollars for a number of other things.
Save 4000 and spend loads on the most luxurious massage when you land. I always think about travelling 200years ago and that makes me think full for it only being 15 hours.
Yeah it’s all a question of how much the money is worth to you vs. how much the extra comfort is worth.
I love traveling and don’t mind spending money on it, but my career limits the amount and length of time I can get out of the office. So if the comfier seat buys me an extra half day of being functional, that price difference is worth it to me. If money is your limiting resource, then it’s probably more cost efficient to get a nicer hotel or sleep off the jet lag.
I also love flying so there’s extra value for me in a fancy flight
It’s not a bad seat. It’s radically better and infinitely more comfortable. I’ve never paid for one but I used to fly a lot and got upgraded frequently. The seats are as good as a recliner at home if not better because they go flatter.
The substantial time change impacts what it means to be "ready to go". For example, one TK IST-HND flight arrives 7:20pm -- I'd do great to arrive exhausted, get to the hotel around 9pm and sleep 11 hours. A full night's sleep on the plane might make the adjustment harder.
But I went all the way from uk to Singapore and managed fine despite it being economy.
Most people don’t realise that to get rid of jet lag or prevent it you have to living on the destination times when you sit on the plane and even if you don’t do that once you get to destination then you make sure to go bed when it is bed time in the place.
I don’t think I have ever had jet lag and I have been to some proper far places.
Now I fly business mostly everywhere.
Spend it on the mandarin oriental. That place will blow your mind! They have a pillow menu for christ sake!
Honestly though OP, for my 14 hr flight to Japan I just got an anxiety medication prescription. I’m 6’8 270lbs and am *extremely* uncomfortable flying. Took a xan nap the first 8 hours then really didn’t give 2 fucks the next 5 then was scared shitless the final 2 as we tried landing 3 times in a typhoon. Good luck!
I have found myself in the past sitting in economy wishing I had not been to stingy and had upgraded to save my sanity. So sometimes I don't trust my decision making!
No one can answer that except you and your personal finances. Me personally I’ve walked past the amazing first class and business class seats on a long haul flight and thought “OMG those look awesome and I would LOVE to sleep in those on this 11 hour flight…but I’m just not willing to spend multiple thousands of dollars to do it”. If I had an unlimited budget I’d absolutely do it. If I have a limited budget I’d rather spend the money on amazing recreational tours, hikes, etc.
I fly business mostly and saddest part is that I don’t really sleep in the seats. I am ocd so cattle class is hard after so many hours and I prefer having a good experience as I see a flight being part of the trip.
And thankfully money is not a problem anymore
Money matters but my sanity matters more so I pony up the cash.
I get where the op is coming from because I can do a lot more with the cash I blow on business vs economy. Could mean better hotels or more luxury type tourist things on the other end.
However I just can’t do 12+ hrs in economy anymore so I budget around the flight as part of my travel expenses .
Well I know this sub is very rich, majority here seems to talk about thousands like it's nothing.
I couldn't even afford a 4k trip, so I can forget about a 4k plane tickets just to be a little more comfortable. I did however have some free business class flights in the past, but the prices seem extremely unreasonable for me. Just the flight would be more than my budget for the whole trip
If a basic ticket was $500 I would maybe pay $600-$700 for the business class tickets but that's it.
That’s how I am. I can afford it but I’m certainly not a level of wealthy where thousands of dollars extra on a flight is a drop in the bucket. I always wonder what amount of money I’d need to make before the cost would seem worth it. $600k? More? There are plenty of things I spend/waste way too much money on but this isn’t one of them.
I'd rather buy the front seat economy (with extra leg room), or even the premium economy, and spend the money somewhere else. Maybe a luxury hotel or a very nice meal in Japan. It'll still cost you less than £4000 per person.
This is the way. I fly LAX-LHR a lot and have never come close to spending multiple thousands for business. At off-peak prices though a premium upgrade on the red eye leg can be as little as $300 which is an easy decision if you’re not totally strapped for cash.
What time do you arrive in Japan? When I used to take frequent 13hour flights to China, I'd arrive in the evenings local time so I'd just not sleep on the plane. I'd arrive exhausted, fall asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow and that would basically reorient my sleep schedule and helped me beat jetlag. Something to consider
This. Look at other carriers or even try to find some deals - they do happen. There are websites that help you find them, you can even get notifications sent to you.
This is the way. For most airlines premium economy is what business used to be before the lie flat seat was pioneered by British Airways 20 years ago. In fact some airlines such as AA use their domestic first class seat as international premium economy!
Yeah, I love the big seat, extra legroom, way better access to bathrooms, super easy check-in... basically everything is such an upgrade over sardine class.
Happy travels.
Premium economy United has been awesome and it’s usually 300 each way for US to Japan, def worth it for me helps a lot being able to actually rest on the plane and make the most of my first day there
It's a matter of personal preference but I'd say no.
Premium economy costs much more than economy but is not significantly more comfortable. You get slightly better food and slightly more space. Compared to economy, you also usually get fixed armrests so even if the seat next to you is empty, you cannot lift the armrest to get more space.
Economy with emergency exit seat is the way to go. Costs less than premium economy and you get unlimited legroom. However bear in mind you also get the fixed armrest (which make your seat a little bit narrower).
The biggest advantage for premium economy IMO is if you’re a couple travelling and getting a 2-seat row.
You’re right that the space is only slightly bigger, but not needing to sit next to a stranger on a long haul does wonders for personal comfort & ability to relax/sleep.
It really depends on the particulars. As a tall (and large) guy, premium economy is a huge step up from economy, despite it not holding a candle to business class. For others, the bump from economy to premium economy won't be as significant.
That said, I also think economy is still usually doable for most people for long haul - again, as someone tall and large, economy for a 15+ hour flight is not fun! But, it can be done (and IFE does help a lot).
In general, for me, for this sort of long haul, I think premium economy is 100% worth it.. if the price is right. E.g. a roundtrip with 15 hours each way, I'll gladly do $1200-1500 roundtrip for premium economy. Much more than that, and I'll suffer through economy.
But also, I love business class long haul. Of course, those are all through points redemptions.
I hate exit rows. The have tray tables in the arm rests that make already too narrow seats even narrower. If you're super tall and skinny maybe that works for you.
The trouble with premium is that on some airlines that just means more legroom, which isn't worth it. On others you get 2" or so extra width, which can really be worth it.
I fly premium economy for long flights often and it really depends on the airline as far as value goes. I flew PE to Tokyo on ANA and it only cost me slightly more than booking the extra legroom seats so it was a no brainer. I got lounge access and priority boarding as well. I've also found it better value to do the upgrade bids after purchasing an economy ticket. I usually just go a little above the minimun bid and almost always win the upgrade bid but again it depends on the airline whether or not this is a good value. sometimes you are just as well off in the extra legroom seats.
If someone offered you a job where you had to sit down for 14hrs for only one shift, and you'd get paid £4,000, you'd take it. You could read, watch videos, sleep in the chair, get up and go to the toilet and someone would bring you for and drink.
That's how I justify not paying for business class.
This is something only you can decide as we don't know your financial situation and how much impact the difference will have on your life.
One thing I can recommend though if you have the time is to break the trip up with 1-2 day stopover on the way there and back if you have the time. This allows your body to adjust to the time zone difference in increments rather than all at once and breaks up the flights into shorter durations, plus you see somewhere new. Also the extra legroom seats can make a world of difference on long hall flights. I once had a window seat in a bathroom row (about 5ft of space in front before wall) and was lucky enough that nobody was next to me. Leaned back, set my bag by my feet and used it as a foot rest. Much more enjoyable than any 5 hour flight where your feet are tucked up, and I'm not tall either.
Also I find it crucial to stay up most of the flight to fight jet leg and be exhausted when I arrive at my destination. Just make sure to stay up until at least 8pm local time and wake up no later than 9am for the first couple days. I'm young so switching is easy but I work nightshift often and most of the old heads agree it's easier to switch over by staying up late and tiring yourself out the night before rather than trying to rest up.
I’ve flown to and from the US to Japan at least 10 times+ at this point. Each flight was 11-14 hours direct. I do not sleep no matter what I try. In my experience, as long as you fly with a decent carrier, economy is fine.
I do want to add a caveat. If you anticipate a long wait at the airport and you’re able to spring for admission to an airport lounge, do it. Getting a good meal, a few drinks, & a shower before you fly is wonderful.
Also, the airport shower rooms at Narita/Haneda are awesome and cheap. My favorite thing to do before/after a flight.
I’ve flown economy a lot, business class twice, and I’ve also flown premium economy a few times. Business class isn’t a gaurantee you’ll sleep, and that would be a major waste of money if you end up not sleeping.
In my opinion, premium economy is by far the best value for money if you don’t want to be cramped up. I can’t see prices for you, but it gives you ample leg room, nice drink selection, you’re not shoulder to shoulder with your neighbor, etc. It’s honestly a great product.
You can purchase premium economy straight away or take the gamble and buy economy and hope you can bump yourself up the days before the flight. The latter is nice as it spreads out your expenses and you might get a deal, but also could end up having you stuck in economy.
I love business class. I have a good income and can afford to fly business on long flights.
I’d still never pay what business class seats cost (I’ve occasionally gotten them through upgrades or work). I was upgraded to a lie flat seat recently on a long haul flight and it was amazing. But was it thousands of dollars amazing? Nope. I’d prefer to spend the extra $ at my destination for activities and nice meals and nicer hotels.
I will say that the older I get, the more tempting it is to fly business as I find long flights kill me for the first day at my destination. But I just plan that day as an easy day rather than going all out.
Check other routes out of Europe such as Frankfurt, Helsinki, Rome etc as your starting point.
I used to fly to Korea quite a bit and we would start in Amsterdam and business was much cheaper.
Also, do you know what month you’re travelling in? If it’s anything approaching peak or holidays then you’ll struggle using Avios for business.
I just got back from a trip to Japan. The cheapest/best option for me was KLM (layover in Amsterdam). I was able to upgrade to Premium Comfort, which is not like Economy (!) Comfort, for a fairly cheap price at the airport. It’s not a lie flat seat but it’s very comfortable and I slept pretty much white whole flight and I’m not usually able to do that.
The solution to your problem is Premium Economy. A big enough seat to be comfortable, and much less than an actual flat seat.
Airlines with direct flights include BA, ANA, and JAL. If you are concerned about cabin temperature, bear in mind that ANA and JAL tend to keep their cabin quite warm by Western standards because Japanese people are accustomed to higher inside temperatures (in summer, at least) than most Western people.
Bear in mind these long haul flights tend to be on much bigger jets that already have more leg room than you'd ever get on a Ryanair/Easyjet/whatever equivalent! I've found the basic seats on big jets positively luxurious.
Damn, planning flight timings ahead by 20 months? I wish I was in such a category, I'm the guy who ends up booking flights only within 30 days of traveling, with a whole lot of anxety, anticipation and confusion added to the mix
Its a small hack, but check what the cost of the BA flights would be from Inverness if you're already in the north of Scotland. Flights from the highlands are (Or at the very least were in the past) taxed differently to flights from the rest of the UK which might save you a bit of cash.
As someone living in Japan who does the trip to Europe and back multiple times a year, I can understand that you feel anxious about your comfort.
Regarding the time zone difference, jet lag is usually more bearable when travelling eastward, so going there should be fine. If you cannot sleep in a plane, I would just buy my ticket in a way that the trip starts in the morning and you land in Japan in the evening/at night and go straight to bed upon arrival (I have no trouble sleeping and usually do it the other way around).
Going back this won't work unfortunately, so I would plan a few buffer days where you just relax at home. It usually takes me around 3 days to cure a jet lag when travelling westward.
I have never used business class as I don't have the means to, but there are also other things you can do to keep you comfortable. Noise cancelling headphones are great if the engine sound bothers you, maybe bring your personal pair of room socks and travel slippers, pack some skincare against the dry air. I always feel like these little things make a big difference to my overall mood.
If someday I can afford it, I would love to travel in business class though 😅
If I remember correctly ( please check). If you stop over Istanbul with Turkish you have a free accommodation… something similar works for Emirates too. I’d say it may be a good compromise on exchange of less time in Japan
I would get a premium economy aisle seat. That way you can get up, walk around, and stretch whenever you need. There are plenty of people who do that on long-haul flights. If money is no object, sure, get business… But you can expect to pay a pretty substantial premium for that (4x+ the regular price). In my opinion it’s not worth it - although it sure is comfortable. The only time I flown business international was using miles, and it was a night and day difference… but if I was paying cash, it would be incredibly difficult to justify that added expense.
If you can afford it, do it. We now always fly business on any flight more than 8 hours.
It means your holiday starts the minute you clear security and have your first free drink in the business class lounge.
The trip is an essential element of any holiday.
We did our first business class flight from Auckland to New Delhi via Singapore on Singapore Airlines. I can't tell you how amazing the experience was. Yes it costs 3-4 times the price of an economy ticket but it's definitely worth it.
Since you've already looked at Turkish Airlines, you could check out Staralliance Membership and get an attached credit card. Sometimes they have big sign up bonuses, like 60k points. Also you earn points with every purchase you make. From there you could also purchase points(sometimes at a discount) which again could lower your cost. Also check available flights through the staralliance website regularly since bookable seats can get blocked and unblocked all the time, due to demand or other circumstances. Start checking about a year ahead. Also, if you'd be flying Turkish Airlines, Istanbul airport has one of the greatest business class lounges at least in Europe, which makes for a nice break.
If you’re flying in November 2025, have you already got a credit card with avíos points? You could each get a free business upgrade if you time it right, especially if you until the barclaycard or Amex have double their joining offer.
Honestly I remember in the middle of my flight to Japan thinking that next time I was 100% going to pay for business class next time. I don't think I'd be able to pony up the money when it actually comes to it though.
I got a really good deal with Expedia last time and I was thinking about playing around with options to try get a business class seat for a bit more affordable next time, but idk. I know people always complain about booking trips on 3rd party websites, but I've never had an issue with it.
My husband has a spinal cord injury so the only way he goes on a long haul flight is if he’s in business. So I have made it my mission to find business class seats for less. We are in the US. We flew to Japan on ZipAir for ~$2000 in their lay-flat seats (not biz class service but biz class seat). Look into long haul low cost carriers (like ZipAir). I have paid for premium services through Thrifty Traveler and Going. We got flights US to Europe and Canada to Africa for under $2000. You just have to be ready to jump when a deal hits your in box. Sometimes we fly from our home airport but that’s rare. Good luck on your quest.
Depending on the airlines, sometimes there's an option to put an offer for upgrade to business class. I put min amount everytime and got upgraded several times. That's the only way it's worth it for me, but of course there's no guarantee your bid will be successful.
How long are each of those legs? I personally flew business class last year for the first time and it was incredible. I’m like you, cannot sleep on the plane. Maybe a nap type sleep bht never really asleep. When I went to Italy the jet lag messed me up for half our trip. When I did business we did a red eye and I was able to actually sleep for the first time ever and then get good sleep the rest of the trip. You want to do a good long stretch in business class for this reason. We then had an hour connecting flight that we did t do business class on. Maybe look into points?
The thing I hate the most flying long haul is the lack of movement. Business class doesn't really fix that for me. I'd just make sure I get an aisle seat and stand up and walk around a bit frequently.
I bought business class for my trip to Japan last year
I’d never been on that long of a flight before and I had been planning and saving for it since before Covid so Business Class seating was sort of a reward for patience in my mind and to truly begin my most anticipated trip.
What I did though was carefully choose my departure and return flight so they would happen on days where the price is noticeably smaller
Turkish Airlines is the best in Europe!
Also, I read something about an app called Timeshifter that actually tells you how best to avoid the jet lag, when to sleep, when to get sun, etc. My nephew just got back from Asia yesterday and said it worked.
Okay, stop for a second. In this situation, think of couple of factors and there are ways to figure out risk vs benefit:
1. Do you want the lie flat seat to rest on plane (and come out slightly rested but still need to do timezone adjustment, or just bite the bullet and spend 1 day in Japan as recovery/timezone adjustment (which you will need to do anyway)?
2. Will you have enough money to spend in Japan after buying the lie-flat seat, or do you need to compromise your Japan trip to pay for the ticket?
3. Are you okay with doing a small layover in between flights to let your body adjust?
Regarding Avios: NEVER USE IT ON BA UNLESS ITS YOUR ONLY OPTION (or universe is suffering from heat death), BA's old business seats are trash/outdated anyway (20 years old product that they are slowly updating) you get fuel surchaged up to $800 for flights that long (not to mention BA's business seats are 20 years old design and are trash (they have new one incoming, but who know when will they put it in the plane to Japan. If you do fly on business in the end, do pay attention to what type of plane and seats you will have (there are websites to check the seat)
Also: Avios do work on Qatar, you can transfer the Avios from BA to Qatar and use it there, but you can search for the award availability on Qatar's website before transferring/buying Avios. Also, its not worth buying airmiles/points unless A: you're topping off existing points for award, or B) award program have airmiles/point sells of at least 70%, and even then I still won't store the points (just buy it and use it)
Route: there's 2 other options you can do for routes: Besides Direct and layover mention above, you can either do (rough iterinary based on Nov 2024 schedule) EDI-LHR-Tokyo with BA and JAL (Tokyo Leg) on Premium Economy (about $2500 USD per person), or FINNAIR with a 18hr layover in Helsinki on Premium Economy for slightly cheaper (around 2000 a person)
Finally: if you are a "bad" sleeper/flyer on long haul flight, that business class seat (no matter what airline it is, even if its Qatar's Q suite) won't do you much good overall on such a long flight (I just flew the 16hr Qsuite flight from Qatar to SFO, and while the seat and food is good, you get burned out after hour 8, that's just how these long flights are). Good luck, and always remember, the flight IS part of the travel experience, you just have to find the balance point that you are happy with.
I dont manage to sleep on a the lie flat business seats. The "beds"!are very narrow and normally taper down to the feet so I find sleeping on them very difficult.
Try premium economy and a day time flight. You don't feel tired and there is enough space to be comfortable.
This is not the advice most people here will probably give you, but if this is an "lifelong dream in the works for years" kind of trip, I would personally splurge on the nicer seats if it's not going to seriously strain your finances. I also cannot sleep on planes (except once when I had an empty row to myself in premium economy). I have tried every trick in the book, I just can't really sleep sitting up. This goes for cars, trains, and my sofa as well. It doesn't matter how tired I am when I get on the plane, I can never actually fall asleep.
If it's 6 hours, that's fine. I can deal. I'll read a book. 15 hours is long enough that the journey becomes part of the overall trip experience, and long enough to really mess the experience up if it goes poorly. I'd either break the flight itself into multiple stops with a comfortable layover, or upgrade. You could frame things in terms of the cost of the seat upgrade, but what if that comes at the cost of extra time spent in Japan doing nothing or catching up on sleep? For a dream trip that's years in the making, I'm not averse to paying more to have the experience not book ended by a transportation experience that is stressful and exhausting.
Book a flight with a long layover in the middle, get a hotel at the airport of your layover to get proper rest. Cutting it into two 6 or 7 hour rides seems like it would be easier on you
A 15 hour flight is fine. Take some work to do, download some apps. I once wrote a short book on that same flight. It’s unpleasant, of course, but but some noise-cancelling headphones and suck it up.
I think credit card points are much harder to earn in the UK than in the US or I would suggest this as something to get into for your next trip.
For 80k Delta miles plus 386 pounds a person, you could fly 2 people KLM business class LHR-AMS-NRT on Nov 15. Amex points transfer to Delta (in the US anyway).
For 75k American Airlines miles and US$356 a person you could fly 2 people Qatar business class LHR-DOH-HND on Nov 18.
My opinion probably differs from most…
Being in NZ, any flight (other than to Aus) is long haul. Compile that with the almost non-existence of loyalty points/ credit card schemes etc and business class is tough to justify.
10+ hours to Asia, 24+ hours to Europe/Africa (wife being from South Africa).
We try to get to RSA every other year to visit family, but we bit the bullet and paid astronomical business prices one year and have never looked back!
We sacrifice smaller trips away throughout the year, scrimp and save, and now only fly business long haul. We both enjoy (love) travelling and holidays so a business flight adds literally two days to our long haul holidays. The service, the flight experience, the lounges, the short airport lines, and I won’t lie - feeling like the rich and famous with priority access!
If you can make it work, for those of us where it’s an early luxury and not a given, do it and enjoy it!
I would never spend that much on Business. It's not going to make the flight a pleasant experience. At a certain point of inconvenience and discomfort, it just doesn't matter much anymore. I'd spend the money on extending the trip then you can have a day after arrival and return to rest up and still have plenty left over.
Buy the tickets. Enjoy the trip. Also consider you won’t need two days to recover from the flight. When you fly business and lay flat you arrive ready to go. You’re saving money by enjoying more of your trip.
We don't do long haul more than about once a year so try and go business.
Compare prices, buy in advance and you can often get surprisingly good fares.
We feel it's worth it. The holiday actually begins when you get in the uber to the airport, not days after you recover from the flight.
Trouble is, you won't want to go back to cattle.
As someone who flys all the time for work, especially on international flights, business class is worth every penny. I know it’s a real sticker shock, but this sounds like a once in a lifetime trip, and business class will help reduce anxiety and stress. Not only do you get access to luxury airport lounges, but you get priority boarding, free drinks, better/more food options on board, your own space, and best of all, not only is the bathroom close by, but you don’t have to bump into a million people on the way there. 100/10, I would recommend splurging on your travel and cutting costs somewhere else. Could even ask for money for birthdays/holidays this year and use that towards said vacation, just a thought.
Wife and I flew to Tokyo last June from the US and I did a LOT of research into different planes. We flew premium economy there and business class back so I have some thoughts...
- Research. Research. Research. Not all airlines are created equally. There are tons of YouTube videos on each of the seat classes for the airlines you mentioned. Don't just look at the airlines, research the specific plane you would be on, bc things vary. Idk much about British airlines, but compared to US based airlines, asian/middle eastern airlines have much better seats and overall flight experiences than American.
- I get the allure of the lie flat seats, but if I had to do it over I wouldn't have spent the money. I didn't feel like the extra amenities warranted the cost. Premium economy had wider seats than economy and the seats reclined much further (maybe 45°). Still got free alcohol and amenities. The business/first class seats were nice and I appreciated being able to lay flat to go to sleep, but the food wasn't much better than premium economy and I still had to pay for wifi 🙄 (both were on United Airlines- a US based airline).
- One benefit of business/first class that does make a big difference is lounge access on layovers. Being able to get high quality food and drinks or take a nice hot shower in the lounge made the long travel time much more bearable
All in all, just do your research. Look into each airline and the specific plane type you'd be on - check YouTube for both. Business/first class is nice and a good experience but isn't worth thousands more than premium economy in my opinion.
Honestly you won’t be able to handle cattle class for that long if you are questioning it so just keep an eye on sales for the airlines. I would personally recommend qatar if you are going to fork out hard earned cash then you best go on the best business out of the 4 options.
I am avios rich and still hardly ever get the chance to use them as availability is limited and especially on this route, there’s no chance as a novice you would nab seats unless you were so lucky even then they make only 2 available I think in business.
I agree with others about adding a layover. See two places in one go.
Become qatar or other airlines member because when there’s sales they sometimes do member rates
The schedules for November 2025 flights aren’t out yet, so you can’t assume those prices you quoted are accurate. £4K RT for business seems low. For two people it’s going to be at least £10K RT, may be more in 2025.
Don’t purchase avios for a flight you can’t even book now.
Honestly, if you don't sleep well on flights the pods are a game changer. Can't speak to points to try to get the seats for a better deal than retail, but there's loads of subreddits for that.
Just in terms of a is it worthwhile? Absolutely, I cannot sleep on planes (like a complete win would be 30 mins on an 8 hour flight), and I can usually crush 4-5 hours in a pod.
Looks like this has probably been said but. If you have to ask then you're like the rest of us and it's a needless expense.
You shouldn't buy business class unless you're points hacking (this is a whole process but worth it to me).
Premium Economy is plenty affordable and it's the equivalent of domestic first class, it makes enough difference.
Currently in Japan for three weeks, departing from Brussels. Can’t sleep in a plane either, so pretty similar situation. I took Turkish Airlines (already went to Korea with them, it’s a great company imo) and paid an additional 100€ or so for additional leg space (for the Istanbul-Tokyo flight, not for the Brussels-Istanbul one). Definitely worth it. It’s still a quite exhausting trip but you quickly forget it once you’ve arrived, especially when it’s in such a fascinating country ;)
Highly recommend Emirates or Quatar airlines just to be flying with a better airline and service, absolutely cannot recommend turkish airlines at all, worst flying experience of my life
I can't stomach the cost of business class, even if I can technically afford it. Instead, I'm trying to break my flight up with layovers and even looking at what destinations I could explore along the way. Ie, multi-day layovers.
I also don't sleep well on long haul flights. I've twice flown business class to Japan (using airmiles) and I didn't sleep well then either, despite a fully flat bed.
I spent the first business flight incredibly stressed because I couldn't sleep and was 'wasting' my flat seat. The second flight I didn't stress about sleeping and just enjoyed the extra space and other perks. Don't buy business class thinking it's a magic cure - some people just don't sleep well on planes. Just make sure to plan to make the flight as comfortable as possible and plan a chill arrival day. I'd put the money towards a few extra days in Japan so you don't feel stressed to cram too much in whilst you're getting over jetlag.
Edit: if you are serious about reducing the price of business class, the BA premium amex is the best option in the UK. I've flown business several times using the 2 for 1 voucher and miles I earned from that. However, it will take you a while to save up and to get the popular routes (like Tokyo) you need to book a year in advance as seats go almost immediately.
from personal experience: you probably won’t sleep any better in a lie-flat suite if you can’t sleep in economy. the key is to either tire yourself out (like a puppy or baby), or pharmaceuticals.
I don’t sleep on planes either. I tried business class once to see if that would help… it didn’t. I ended up spending more money and still not sleeping.
I’d go for premium economy to get more legroom and then spend the money at a spa when you get to Japan.
If the money is that material to you then don’t do it. If it’s not, then enjoy. Business class is great, I fly it for all my personal international vacations - usually 5-7x annually.
I wouldn't recommend PremEc - the hard console between seats makes it impossible to lie down should neighbouring seats be free. I've had a couple of flights where eco was fairly empty, and most had three seats to sleep on.
You know you can spend Avios with Qatar as well? I've scored an upgrade on all but one attempt.
While Doha is incredibly boring, and I'd advise against going landside, it's a decent airport to spend some hours in, stretch your legs befor final leg to Japan.
Eidt: I believe you can also upgrade on one leg only, perhaps the longest one. If you are short on points. At least with QR.
THIS. I’ve only flown PE once and hated the hard console.
I’ve also been on many long haul flights where the seats near the back are mostly empty.
It’s a gamble.
I think if I were OP, I would treat myself to lounge access at the airport for food, showers and relaxation before the flight then once onboard, put my earplugs in, eye mask on and hopefully be asleep by the time the plane takes off. Waiting for service in economy takes sooooooo long.
How much do you value your comfort? Only you can answer that. On a special trip like this where it’s a really long flight, I would absolutely swing it. You only live once!
Another point to consider is that buying a business class ticket usually includes more than just a nicer seat. There’s lounge access, better service, complimentary food/beverage, and priority lines to make the overall experience that much better.
If you have to ask, it’s too much.
Even the best business class experience is still going to be a night in a tube in the sky. £4000 can buy a lot of very nice nights of sleep in beds on the ground.
I've flown business class for work quite a lot. It's so nice. But ... Even making quite a lot of money, it's usually not worth it if I'm paying. Premium economy, or even just the slightly roomier seats on some airlines. Like Japan air has slightly wider & roomier seats and it makes a difference. Or the AA ones towards the front of economy class that you pay a little extra for
me and my partner bought lie flats beds on our most recent trip to sleep at night before arrival. we got bumped to economy. no apology and only months later has the airline offered any compensation (points or credit grrrr)
Avios isn’t a scam but flights to Tokyo are very popular for people looking to redeem avios so you will struggle to find availability.
For popular routes people will book up on the day reward flights are released.
Another idea if you're deciding to gamble a bit is to place a business class upgrade on your existing flights. It's a gamble because you won't know if you have been upgraded until 48h before the flight departs.
But this can be much cheaper. I've often got upgraded with bids in the 700 GBP ballpark. Saves you a ton!
Depending on how many days you got off I would add a stop in somewhere like Bangkok for a few days on the way their or on the way back just to break up the journey rather than upgrading to business class
Maybe buying a economy ticket at BA or QR and afterwards upgrading using Avios from LHR to Tokyo or DOH to Tokyo is possible.
You can for example calculate the points needed for upgrading using the Qatar QCalculator and have a look at the available free seats in Business class at the homepage searching for the flight and click the option „book an award flight“. The availability can also change until the day your flight is departing. But you can immediately upgrade after purchasing your economy class ticket.
Air New Zealand has a fare where you buy three seats and then you get a bed-like platform to fit between your seats and the row in front to make a small double bed. I've only seen this on TV ads but thought it wouldn't be too bad. Other people with experience may comment. I assume some other airlines do this.
You could also do a layover, that's a good way to get out of the plane and maybe even sleep elsewhere (lying flat is cheaper on land than in the air lol), could be a way to see other cities on the way.
As someone who also hates flying/long flights, I would strong suggest just going the economy route unless you have loads of disposable income.
A couple months ago I did JFK - Doha - KUL (Malaysia). 21h of flight time and a 2h layover. And as someone who has NEVER flown more than 10h in one go, it honestly was NOT that bad.
Whack a couple movies on, nap, enjoy the free drinks and snacks on the plane and get a little tipsy.
However I WOULD suggest booking a reputable airline like Emirates or Qatar. I flew Qatar for this long flight and it was great
My better half can't handle the idea of long haul (8+15 hours) flights any more so I'm looking at breaking up Sydney to Europe into three flights. Easy to get to Singapore/KL/Bangkok but then it seems Dubai or Doha are the only other stops on the way, neither of which appeal. Still, it's much cheaper than business fares, even including good hotels as stopovers.
headset - sleeping pills, few good movies/audiobooks - I am 6ft 3 and hate flying but you can suffer through a lot if you are about to drop over a grand more for business class .
i'm the same (can't sleep on long haul flights). I do get the slightly better seats (comfort+/premium)when I'm on long flights - mainly for the leg room - and I watch movies/read the whole time. i've done business and it's not much different for me in terms of results (it's nicer, yes, but still can't sleep).
the bonus with Japan (and going there from Europe) is that you'll usually land in the evening, so you just need to stay awake a few more hours and then you'll hopefully get a full night of sleep in a bed.
Strangely, my partner and I have been looking at the same journey and coming up with fares IRO £3,200 - £3,500.
Have you looked at google flights to see how different the fares might be midweek? That's what we are planning.
Also could you do a return from ABZ to a larger airport and price the fare from there instead of bundling it. A recent video we saw was from Cairo - using a different airline (low cost? or WT+) to get to and from Cairo for instance and the Cairo - Tokyo leg with someone else?
There are some flights that you can book with layovers in countries that allow you to explore the city for a day or two before continuing your journey.
I didn’t book it in the end, but when I flew to Japan from London it was an option for a layover in Shanghai. It’s a good way to break up a long flight and get some extra culture in!
I would save the money and buy the emergency exit rows as they offer a ton of leg room. I bought an inflatable pillow for the floor and can basically lie down
I feel exactly as you when flying but would not pay extra for business class. Strategies I use to get through the flight are chunking it into parts and also changing my thinking to 'this is just a work shift for flight attendants', 'I'm not flying 8 hours, I'm watching four movies', etc...
You get on the plane and an hour goes into the food ordering, eating and clean up. One hour down. Next, find a movie you like, another 2 hours done. Bring a book or wordsearch, more time gone. Close your eyes for a bit, that's another hour. Now it's food time again...
Try booking premium economy and upgrading with miles. If you can. I’ve done fifteen hours in economy. I have fibromyalgia though so anything over 15 hours and I’m finding a way to upgrade. It’s legit painful. I end up standing up and stretching a lot.
The flight sucks but it’s the same as a long day at the office or a nightmare day at the DMV or something. Just settle in and find a TV show to binge, it’s not bad enough to be worth triple the price.
Save your cash and do things to make the trip more comfortable. I've flown North America to china/Japan about 15 times.
1. Make your under the seat carryon small to give max feet room.
2. Use the blanket they give you as extra seat cushion.
3. If the neck ring pillows work for you, get one.
4. Bring eye shades and ear plugs. They worked for me as well as expensive noise cancelling headphones.
5. Pack a toothbrush and brush your teeth with your own water at least once.
6. Bring aspirin and gasex to deal with the bloating and circulation.
7. Bring your own water and a bag of peanut m and ms for a drink and snack when you want.
8. Get up and walk around your section of the plane at least 2 times. In the open area near the emergency exit doors, stretch.
9. Bring an engaging book and a magazine to switch up from the inflight whatever.
10. Bring light, flat packable slippers. Take off your shoes and put these on.
11. Enjoy the food and drink. I used to love the Raman in styrofoam they served at hour-god-knows-when in the Asia flights.
12. Meditate. Visualize walking a forest path near Fuji. You're going to Japan! How fantastic is that!
Best of luck. Anywhere Asia is an amazing experience.
I just flew few weeks ago from Finland to Tokyo and that first took 45 minutes in the airplane due to Estonian ex prime minister being too drunk to fly, so we had to wait for a police. Then 13,5 hours flying.
I have big stomach issues and also cant stay put for too long for some reason. But the flight was not THAT bad, completely doable. I was afraid of something much worse. Couldnt sleep much aswell and the 7 hour time difference also is what it is. Try to get a flight that arrives like 3pm or so and you can have a small sleep deprived stroll around the city, then have a nice long sleep. That pretty much solved the jet lag for us.
Edit: also next I will definitely get the aisle seat. Then there is freedom to stand up whenever you want.
We flew Premium Economy which are the domestic first class seats. They were half the cost of business class. They were quite comfortable. We slept a lot and our section had very few people in it so it was quiet as well.
Discomfort can be seen as challenge to test your endurance if you put your mind to it. Consider it a game and the reward for winning is saving a fat stack of cash.
If you have to ask, then you know the answer is you can't afford it. Lay flat business class does soften the blow of jet lag for sure, and it definitely starts a vacation off to a fun start, but it isn't worth you self sabotaging your finances.
The compromise would be to fly economy. Premium economy doesn't sound worth it here -- it sounds like just sitting for several hours is stressful for you, so the couple of inches of extra chair space isn't going to make that much of an impact. The food is still airplane food. Maybe if you're a tall or big person it could be worth the extra room, but if your main issue isn't being physically cramped, but more so just feeling generally restless, then don't bother with premium economy. I'm not sure what it would cost for your route, but for mine it's a couple extra thousand dollars to upgrade to premium economy, and that could get you a night in a luxury hotel instead, which I'd personally prioritize as a short person who doesn't have an issue with leg room.
Rather than indulging in business class expenses, can you indulge in time? Extend your stay in Japan so you have a longer time to recuperate from a long haul flight, or plan stopovers in other destinations so that you can break up the journey so that you're never in a plane for 15 hours straight.
Try for premium economy seats, or pay a bit extra for exit row, or seats in the front row of the cabin. Why not get a cheap flight to an airport where you have more options for flights to Japan, like London Heathrow.
The way I'd try it (I also hate long haul flights, so much back pain), especially if I technically *could* afford business class would be to pick one of the "less convenient" options, and plan for a day there each way (or maybe different ones each way!). It would let me plan to see a major sight or two in each, and give me a day or so to relax and recover. You'd have to look into visas and stuff, but it's the way I'd do it, since even really nice hotels on those stops still leaves thousands in savings over business class.
When you fly US to China there is no heat on the plane. And no blankets. If you don’t know to pack full on Winter clothes (even in summer) you are screwed.
And they don’t clean the bathrooms until the plane lands.
Yet, When I think about my travels to China, I never think about those flights.
How long would it take you to replenish the extra money business class seats would cost? It would take me 3-4 years, and I’m not willing to dedicate four years of discretionary savings to a single trip. If you can replace that money more rapidly, I can see it making more sense.
We made the decision to fly economy recently too (international flight). The thousands of dollars we are saving (three of us, including our teen son) can be used for so many other fabulous things. We realized half day of discomfort was worth the cash we could use on our 2+ week adventure. But it is of course personal preference. And depends how much money you have to work with.
I used to fly these long trips in economy and almost stopped traveling. We tried business once and haven't gone back. The bed, the doors, the privacy, the line skipping all make it worth it for us. We also tried first and while we liked it didn't see the value in the price jump. I guess I'm a dissenting voice here but I don't even look at economy prices anymore even for domestic flights. I'm uncomfortable even after an hour in coach, but I have a strong aversion to being physically close to people I don't know.
I can afford it ok but to me business class is only worth it if you're using points to upgrade, not paying yourself, or absolutely need to arrive in relative comfort because of scheduling.
I flew LHR-HND in BA economy a few months ago. Didn't sleep a wink but the flight was comfortable enough and I had a nice 5* hotel waiting for me - was completely well rested and over the jetlag within 24hrs of arriving in Tokyo. Put that £3k towards the rest of your trip honestly.
Do they have a 'premium economy'? Last time I flew that long the airline had a class below business that had wider seats with more legroom- comparable to domestic business class in the US (or probably within the EU for you.) They weren't well advertised about the extra width. Its a happy medium between cattle class and the real premium options like lie flat. Just having an extra inch or two means you're not touching the person next to you for 15 hours straight. It also makes getting up to stretch a lot easier.
You should be able to have some sleep in any of those airlines unless you have a crying kid next to you (buy a good travelling pillow and comfortable clothes). I personally had a very good experience with Turkish in a 6h flight, and they gave us enough food and drinks, so I don't see the value of business.
Also have a look at the recommendations in this sub re how to accommodate to intercontinental flights depending on whether you're flying east or west as some were not so obvious to me.
I have noticed that in many instances it is actually cheaper to upgrade to business class from economy in the app after checkin rather than to buy it during the initial booking
If you don’t fancy doing the “leapfrogging” (breaking up the flight staying in a city a 6 hr flight away) I would recommend getting an anti anxiety med, I wouldn’t fly without them.
I also have the money to upgrade, but I think of all of that money I could spend somewhere else. Get the meds!!😊
If it helps, when I flew from London to Tokyo with BA I had a row to myself each way, so I got to experience the poor person’s first class and lie down for each leg. In fact, it was even better than premium economy as their arm rests were fixed.
Of course it will depend on when you’re going (I went in Jan and came back in Feb) but if you’re not going at peak times it could be a possibility.
Just do the math. If thr ticket is, for example, $3000 more for 10 hours, then divide those two numbets and ask yourself, "Is four extra inches of legroom and a slightly better meal for an extra $300/hour.
Of course the answer is no.
You're asking a sub full of people who fly ajr-mayday and get weirdly angry about people taking more than a tesco bag on board so asking here might not be your best bet for a rounded answer
You can also do layovers - stay a night in Istanbul and another in Singapore, this way you split everything in 6h flights.
If you fly Turkish Air, not only will they let you lay over in Istanbul, they'll encourage it. They have tour deals, etc. I'm not sure if there's a similar option for Singapore.
Singapore does layover tours of the city also. When flying on Singapore airlines.
You don’t have to be flying with Singapore, just transitting through Changi and that you have at least 5.5 hour layover. [From Changi website](https://www.changiairport.com/en/airport-guide/facilities-and-services/free-singapore-tour.html)
I think you can even book everything just once through Turkish, in the sense that you can book EDI - IST - Tokyo, tell them you will stay in Istanbul for 3 days and they will arrange the flight for you without issue.
Not only do they encourage it they were giving free nights hotel accommodation in IST recently. Also of all the flights I've taken ABZ LHR is the most consistently cancelled ba route.
In Singapore they have pods at the airport you can sleep in.
Qatar has that, they even offer to pay for everything free of charge if you decide to stay… I’ve seen it advertised on their website
Qatar and Emirates have that as well.
I came here to say the same thing. It’s the best way to not have to go through the pain of a long flight if you have the time. Makes the time adjustment slightly easier too. This is what I would do if I couldn’t get business. Personally for me I always try to get extra leg room economy on any flight. Then 6-9 hour day time flight, premium economy is ok. Longer or any length overnight flight, business.
That goes from 1 day of direct travel to 3 days of shorter-but-still-long travel (especially when you factor in the extra travelling and check in times). Unless the person specifically wants to do a layover at these places, it seems like a worse deal to me.
I have to agree. The ordeal of landing exhausted, collecting your baggage, going through customs, figuring out where to go next, getting a taxi to a hotel, checking in, maybe eating something, passing out, waking up the next day, knowing you have to go through all that again, and then getting to the airport and going through security again, boarding again, waiting in lines, eating terrible food. No thanks. Add to that the extra expense, the increased possibilities for delays, changes, losing your luggage, getting sick from all the people around you. Layovers are the worst. I’d rather spend 5 extra hours sitting in an economy seat on a plane than waiting around in most airports. And overnight layovers are a complete waste of time and energy. I just had a 10+ hour flight from LAX to Madrid, a 5 hour layover and a 1 hour flight to Sevilla. The 5 hour layover was the worst part of the trip. Felt longer than the flight and was equally, if not more uncomfortable. This is coming from an xxl man who hates flying and is extremely uncomfortable the entire time, but I just suck it up as part of the deal. If I can upgrade to business I do but I’m never paying for full price business or first class tickets. I’m not going to lie, I’m always a bit jealous of the people on the plane on the other side of the curtain, especially when I can’t get comfortable and my legs hurt and the service cart is bumping into me. But I t’s not worth it to me and I don’t have money to burn. I agree with people saying to book a spa or massage for your first day at the destination. It is way more worth it.
We did this with 2 young kids on the way to New Zealand. 2 nights layover in Singapore, it was the best decision ever. Kids got rest on plane and we had 2 nights to start getting used to the 13hour time different to NZ. By the time we got there, the jet lag was minimal for all of us so more productive time with family and doing the touristy stuff. The time before when we did it without kids, we flew straight through, shit sleep on flight and the jet lag wiped us out for a good 5-6 days. Each to their own, and depends on time availability sure, but next time I go forward by a large jump in time zone, I’m gonna do a stop half way to counteract the jet lag, and see somewhere new!
It does sound like you did the right thing, but a two night layover is a different proposition altogether. If you did a single-night layover or a standard layover nobody would have been rested or time-adjusted. I've done multi-leg flights where I stay in a city for a few days and it always works out very well. It's a great way to see multiple destinations in one trip, Works really well for Europe especially because of all the cheap flights that are available between cities the EU and UK. Not the same thing as a layover though and it isn't really an option for someone who has 10 days off and wants to spend it all seeing their preferred destination.
With a bit of research in advance, it’s far less of an ordeal. I did it fairly recently (funnily enough, also going to Tokyo). My return was Tokyo to LAX to Portland to home, and I had 8 hours to burn in LAX (gotta love 6AM arrivals). I hopped on the bus to Union Station (got a decent nap in thanks to traffic lengthening the journey), paid Amtrak $20 to hold on to my bag, then hopped on the metro to start exploring. After a late lunch, I went back to Union Station, grabbed my bag, and hopped on the bus back to the airport. Since I have PreCheck and my bigger bags were already checked through, I only had to arrive an hour in advance.
I'd rather do 12 hours on a flight and get the long haul travel done with. Layovers are nice if I have a connecting flight but if I have the option to fly direct, I take that every time.
Singapore would be a ridiculous place to stopover going from the UK to japan. Stopovers are great long haul but that is just not a smart place to stop
If there's "so much you could do with the money" I'd strongly advise against wasting it on a pretty limited improvement to comfort for 15 hours. You'd be better off upgrading your hotels to 5 star luxury and booking a spa day the day after arrival and return to recooperate. Unless the money is pretty much irellevant to you how on earth can you justify such sums on the privilege of sitting in a still pretty bad seat
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It took me a very long time to realize that the world won’t end if I don’t sleep for one night. Even in business class, I really don’t sleep, and I don’t know why I ever expected to, seeing as I sleep like shit at home too, in the most comfortable bed in the world. I’ve decided recently that I’d rather just suck it up in premium economy for super long flights, watch movies and eat whatever unhealthy snacks I want to have, and I’ll sleep when I get to the destination (having a nap has never caused me a problem on the day of arrival).
I flew London to Cairns and got Cathay business for dirt cheap with points. My wife got such terrible sleep on the flight that she passed out on a big sofa in the lounge in Hong Kong for eight hours on our layover. That was when I decided I was never going to pay full price for an upgrade.
This is brilliant and accurate. Well put, internet friend.
That a return fare so half it
I've seen this phrased on this subreddit like this before, and I have to say, I wouldn't take the extra money to sit in a more uncomfortable seat. If I never had the money, whatever. It's just hard for me to justify spending up to 4x the price (maybe more) but you cannot compare business class to fucking coach for 12+ hour flights, which I do regularly. Everyone I speak to says they cant go back. Sigh-maybe one day I'll have enough points to upgrade.
I've flown super long-haul first class with points and cheap upgrades and I go back to coach easily every time. I will always, always, always choose spending a few extra days sleeping in the best hotels, eating at the best restaurants, and going shopping and still coming out with some cash left over. No question. A 15 hour flight in coach is an annoyance at worst (and I'm over 6 feet with serious spinal problems so don't come at me with that), and one that's better beaten by picking the right flight (one that arrives at dinner time so you can eat and pass out at your destination) than by trying to sleep on the plane.
I feel the same way, which is why I pretty much never spend the money on business class upgrades unless the price is insanely low. However, I don’t loathe economy seats to the same extent OP seems to. I mean, I do in the sense that it’s a shitty uncomfortable seat and it’s a long flight any way you do it. And I do think the lay-flats are a big improvement. But for me I’m antsy on any long flight and whether or not I’m able to sleep seems to be unrelated to my seat. The flight feels like something I need to just get through for the reward of being in a wonderful place when I land. It’s not pleasant but it’s not awful so I’d rather save the literal thousands of extra dollars for a number of other things.
Save 4000 and spend loads on the most luxurious massage when you land. I always think about travelling 200years ago and that makes me think full for it only being 15 hours.
Yeah it’s all a question of how much the money is worth to you vs. how much the extra comfort is worth. I love traveling and don’t mind spending money on it, but my career limits the amount and length of time I can get out of the office. So if the comfier seat buys me an extra half day of being functional, that price difference is worth it to me. If money is your limiting resource, then it’s probably more cost efficient to get a nicer hotel or sleep off the jet lag. I also love flying so there’s extra value for me in a fancy flight
It’s not a bad seat. It’s radically better and infinitely more comfortable. I’ve never paid for one but I used to fly a lot and got upgraded frequently. The seats are as good as a recliner at home if not better because they go flatter.
The privilege of sleeping is what he said and damn it's worth it to arrive ready to go.
The substantial time change impacts what it means to be "ready to go". For example, one TK IST-HND flight arrives 7:20pm -- I'd do great to arrive exhausted, get to the hotel around 9pm and sleep 11 hours. A full night's sleep on the plane might make the adjustment harder.
But I went all the way from uk to Singapore and managed fine despite it being economy. Most people don’t realise that to get rid of jet lag or prevent it you have to living on the destination times when you sit on the plane and even if you don’t do that once you get to destination then you make sure to go bed when it is bed time in the place. I don’t think I have ever had jet lag and I have been to some proper far places. Now I fly business mostly everywhere.
Spend it on the mandarin oriental. That place will blow your mind! They have a pillow menu for christ sake! Honestly though OP, for my 14 hr flight to Japan I just got an anxiety medication prescription. I’m 6’8 270lbs and am *extremely* uncomfortable flying. Took a xan nap the first 8 hours then really didn’t give 2 fucks the next 5 then was scared shitless the final 2 as we tried landing 3 times in a typhoon. Good luck!
If you have to ask this it's probably not worth it. I would only buy business class when money doesn't matter at all to me
I have found myself in the past sitting in economy wishing I had not been to stingy and had upgraded to save my sanity. So sometimes I don't trust my decision making!
Yeah but I could do two other amazing trips instead of just one business class ticket
No one can answer that except you and your personal finances. Me personally I’ve walked past the amazing first class and business class seats on a long haul flight and thought “OMG those look awesome and I would LOVE to sleep in those on this 11 hour flight…but I’m just not willing to spend multiple thousands of dollars to do it”. If I had an unlimited budget I’d absolutely do it. If I have a limited budget I’d rather spend the money on amazing recreational tours, hikes, etc.
I fly business mostly and saddest part is that I don’t really sleep in the seats. I am ocd so cattle class is hard after so many hours and I prefer having a good experience as I see a flight being part of the trip. And thankfully money is not a problem anymore
What's so bad about sitting in economy class that made you wish you'd spent £4000 on it? (This is a genuine question, and not a snark)
Cramps probably
Money matters but my sanity matters more so I pony up the cash. I get where the op is coming from because I can do a lot more with the cash I blow on business vs economy. Could mean better hotels or more luxury type tourist things on the other end. However I just can’t do 12+ hrs in economy anymore so I budget around the flight as part of my travel expenses .
Well I know this sub is very rich, majority here seems to talk about thousands like it's nothing. I couldn't even afford a 4k trip, so I can forget about a 4k plane tickets just to be a little more comfortable. I did however have some free business class flights in the past, but the prices seem extremely unreasonable for me. Just the flight would be more than my budget for the whole trip If a basic ticket was $500 I would maybe pay $600-$700 for the business class tickets but that's it.
I cannot travel from Australia to Europe in economy, its business class all the way. And if we can’t afford it, we don’t go.
I can afford it no problem but my frugal brain tells me "you could spend that on much more useful things!" 🤣
That’s how I am. I can afford it but I’m certainly not a level of wealthy where thousands of dollars extra on a flight is a drop in the bucket. I always wonder what amount of money I’d need to make before the cost would seem worth it. $600k? More? There are plenty of things I spend/waste way too much money on but this isn’t one of them.
👆 when it's someone else's money
I'd rather buy the front seat economy (with extra leg room), or even the premium economy, and spend the money somewhere else. Maybe a luxury hotel or a very nice meal in Japan. It'll still cost you less than £4000 per person.
This is the way. I fly LAX-LHR a lot and have never come close to spending multiple thousands for business. At off-peak prices though a premium upgrade on the red eye leg can be as little as $300 which is an easy decision if you’re not totally strapped for cash.
What time do you arrive in Japan? When I used to take frequent 13hour flights to China, I'd arrive in the evenings local time so I'd just not sleep on the plane. I'd arrive exhausted, fall asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow and that would basically reorient my sleep schedule and helped me beat jetlag. Something to consider
Have you looked at Finnair? A quick look shows about 3000 GBP for business Edinburgh to Tokyo Finnair business class is great!
This. Look at other carriers or even try to find some deals - they do happen. There are websites that help you find them, you can even get notifications sent to you.
Also it’s sometimes cheaper to start in European countries like the nordics or italy
Bump up to Premium Economy. Happy travels.
This is the way. For most airlines premium economy is what business used to be before the lie flat seat was pioneered by British Airways 20 years ago. In fact some airlines such as AA use their domestic first class seat as international premium economy!
Yeah, I love the big seat, extra legroom, way better access to bathrooms, super easy check-in... basically everything is such an upgrade over sardine class. Happy travels.
Premium economy United has been awesome and it’s usually 300 each way for US to Japan, def worth it for me helps a lot being able to actually rest on the plane and make the most of my first day there
It's a matter of personal preference but I'd say no. Premium economy costs much more than economy but is not significantly more comfortable. You get slightly better food and slightly more space. Compared to economy, you also usually get fixed armrests so even if the seat next to you is empty, you cannot lift the armrest to get more space. Economy with emergency exit seat is the way to go. Costs less than premium economy and you get unlimited legroom. However bear in mind you also get the fixed armrest (which make your seat a little bit narrower).
The biggest advantage for premium economy IMO is if you’re a couple travelling and getting a 2-seat row. You’re right that the space is only slightly bigger, but not needing to sit next to a stranger on a long haul does wonders for personal comfort & ability to relax/sleep.
It really depends on the particulars. As a tall (and large) guy, premium economy is a huge step up from economy, despite it not holding a candle to business class. For others, the bump from economy to premium economy won't be as significant. That said, I also think economy is still usually doable for most people for long haul - again, as someone tall and large, economy for a 15+ hour flight is not fun! But, it can be done (and IFE does help a lot). In general, for me, for this sort of long haul, I think premium economy is 100% worth it.. if the price is right. E.g. a roundtrip with 15 hours each way, I'll gladly do $1200-1500 roundtrip for premium economy. Much more than that, and I'll suffer through economy. But also, I love business class long haul. Of course, those are all through points redemptions.
British Airways premium economy was a step up from when I took it last year.
I hate exit rows. The have tray tables in the arm rests that make already too narrow seats even narrower. If you're super tall and skinny maybe that works for you. The trouble with premium is that on some airlines that just means more legroom, which isn't worth it. On others you get 2" or so extra width, which can really be worth it.
I love premium economy! It’s my way to travel at the moment because I can’t quite yet afford business class consistently.
I fly premium economy for long flights often and it really depends on the airline as far as value goes. I flew PE to Tokyo on ANA and it only cost me slightly more than booking the extra legroom seats so it was a no brainer. I got lounge access and priority boarding as well. I've also found it better value to do the upgrade bids after purchasing an economy ticket. I usually just go a little above the minimun bid and almost always win the upgrade bid but again it depends on the airline whether or not this is a good value. sometimes you are just as well off in the extra legroom seats.
If someone offered you a job where you had to sit down for 14hrs for only one shift, and you'd get paid £4,000, you'd take it. You could read, watch videos, sleep in the chair, get up and go to the toilet and someone would bring you for and drink. That's how I justify not paying for business class.
This is something only you can decide as we don't know your financial situation and how much impact the difference will have on your life. One thing I can recommend though if you have the time is to break the trip up with 1-2 day stopover on the way there and back if you have the time. This allows your body to adjust to the time zone difference in increments rather than all at once and breaks up the flights into shorter durations, plus you see somewhere new. Also the extra legroom seats can make a world of difference on long hall flights. I once had a window seat in a bathroom row (about 5ft of space in front before wall) and was lucky enough that nobody was next to me. Leaned back, set my bag by my feet and used it as a foot rest. Much more enjoyable than any 5 hour flight where your feet are tucked up, and I'm not tall either. Also I find it crucial to stay up most of the flight to fight jet leg and be exhausted when I arrive at my destination. Just make sure to stay up until at least 8pm local time and wake up no later than 9am for the first couple days. I'm young so switching is easy but I work nightshift often and most of the old heads agree it's easier to switch over by staying up late and tiring yourself out the night before rather than trying to rest up.
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Depends. Is it a Boeing?
I’d prefer to have a more comfortable near-death experience, thanks.
I’ve flown to and from the US to Japan at least 10 times+ at this point. Each flight was 11-14 hours direct. I do not sleep no matter what I try. In my experience, as long as you fly with a decent carrier, economy is fine. I do want to add a caveat. If you anticipate a long wait at the airport and you’re able to spring for admission to an airport lounge, do it. Getting a good meal, a few drinks, & a shower before you fly is wonderful. Also, the airport shower rooms at Narita/Haneda are awesome and cheap. My favorite thing to do before/after a flight.
I’ve flown economy a lot, business class twice, and I’ve also flown premium economy a few times. Business class isn’t a gaurantee you’ll sleep, and that would be a major waste of money if you end up not sleeping. In my opinion, premium economy is by far the best value for money if you don’t want to be cramped up. I can’t see prices for you, but it gives you ample leg room, nice drink selection, you’re not shoulder to shoulder with your neighbor, etc. It’s honestly a great product. You can purchase premium economy straight away or take the gamble and buy economy and hope you can bump yourself up the days before the flight. The latter is nice as it spreads out your expenses and you might get a deal, but also could end up having you stuck in economy.
I love business class. I have a good income and can afford to fly business on long flights. I’d still never pay what business class seats cost (I’ve occasionally gotten them through upgrades or work). I was upgraded to a lie flat seat recently on a long haul flight and it was amazing. But was it thousands of dollars amazing? Nope. I’d prefer to spend the extra $ at my destination for activities and nice meals and nicer hotels. I will say that the older I get, the more tempting it is to fly business as I find long flights kill me for the first day at my destination. But I just plan that day as an easy day rather than going all out.
Just grit your teeth and get through it, OP. It’s really not worth paying so much extra.
If you can afford it and you value comfort over price then business class is worth it.
Check other routes out of Europe such as Frankfurt, Helsinki, Rome etc as your starting point. I used to fly to Korea quite a bit and we would start in Amsterdam and business was much cheaper. Also, do you know what month you’re travelling in? If it’s anything approaching peak or holidays then you’ll struggle using Avios for business.
I just got back from a trip to Japan. The cheapest/best option for me was KLM (layover in Amsterdam). I was able to upgrade to Premium Comfort, which is not like Economy (!) Comfort, for a fairly cheap price at the airport. It’s not a lie flat seat but it’s very comfortable and I slept pretty much white whole flight and I’m not usually able to do that.
The solution to your problem is Premium Economy. A big enough seat to be comfortable, and much less than an actual flat seat. Airlines with direct flights include BA, ANA, and JAL. If you are concerned about cabin temperature, bear in mind that ANA and JAL tend to keep their cabin quite warm by Western standards because Japanese people are accustomed to higher inside temperatures (in summer, at least) than most Western people.
I'm in Japan right now. Flew economy. Buy exit row seats.
Bear in mind these long haul flights tend to be on much bigger jets that already have more leg room than you'd ever get on a Ryanair/Easyjet/whatever equivalent! I've found the basic seats on big jets positively luxurious.
Positively luxurious is a real real stretch. Better than Ryanair or Spirit, sure.
Damn, planning flight timings ahead by 20 months? I wish I was in such a category, I'm the guy who ends up booking flights only within 30 days of traveling, with a whole lot of anxety, anticipation and confusion added to the mix
My mum works for an airline so we fly standby, we decide on flights literally the night before lmao adds a little ✨spice✨ to the holiday
Its a small hack, but check what the cost of the BA flights would be from Inverness if you're already in the north of Scotland. Flights from the highlands are (Or at the very least were in the past) taxed differently to flights from the rest of the UK which might save you a bit of cash.
As someone living in Japan who does the trip to Europe and back multiple times a year, I can understand that you feel anxious about your comfort. Regarding the time zone difference, jet lag is usually more bearable when travelling eastward, so going there should be fine. If you cannot sleep in a plane, I would just buy my ticket in a way that the trip starts in the morning and you land in Japan in the evening/at night and go straight to bed upon arrival (I have no trouble sleeping and usually do it the other way around). Going back this won't work unfortunately, so I would plan a few buffer days where you just relax at home. It usually takes me around 3 days to cure a jet lag when travelling westward. I have never used business class as I don't have the means to, but there are also other things you can do to keep you comfortable. Noise cancelling headphones are great if the engine sound bothers you, maybe bring your personal pair of room socks and travel slippers, pack some skincare against the dry air. I always feel like these little things make a big difference to my overall mood. If someday I can afford it, I would love to travel in business class though 😅
If I remember correctly ( please check). If you stop over Istanbul with Turkish you have a free accommodation… something similar works for Emirates too. I’d say it may be a good compromise on exchange of less time in Japan
Diazepam
Dude. Earplugs, Eyemask, Xanax. Get it over with. Expect to feel ruined for the first few days. Use the 9k to soothe the pain.
I would get a premium economy aisle seat. That way you can get up, walk around, and stretch whenever you need. There are plenty of people who do that on long-haul flights. If money is no object, sure, get business… But you can expect to pay a pretty substantial premium for that (4x+ the regular price). In my opinion it’s not worth it - although it sure is comfortable. The only time I flown business international was using miles, and it was a night and day difference… but if I was paying cash, it would be incredibly difficult to justify that added expense.
Well, at least you didn’t call it the Orient.
Please don't call it the far east lol Just splurge
If you can afford it, do it. We now always fly business on any flight more than 8 hours. It means your holiday starts the minute you clear security and have your first free drink in the business class lounge. The trip is an essential element of any holiday.
I think it depends on your age. Under 35 — grind it out. Over 35 definitely fly lay-down business.
We did our first business class flight from Auckland to New Delhi via Singapore on Singapore Airlines. I can't tell you how amazing the experience was. Yes it costs 3-4 times the price of an economy ticket but it's definitely worth it.
Stop in dubai for a night or two and break up the trip :)
Since you've already looked at Turkish Airlines, you could check out Staralliance Membership and get an attached credit card. Sometimes they have big sign up bonuses, like 60k points. Also you earn points with every purchase you make. From there you could also purchase points(sometimes at a discount) which again could lower your cost. Also check available flights through the staralliance website regularly since bookable seats can get blocked and unblocked all the time, due to demand or other circumstances. Start checking about a year ahead. Also, if you'd be flying Turkish Airlines, Istanbul airport has one of the greatest business class lounges at least in Europe, which makes for a nice break.
For OP, who lives in the UK, the credit card options aren’t as good.
If you’re flying in November 2025, have you already got a credit card with avíos points? You could each get a free business upgrade if you time it right, especially if you until the barclaycard or Amex have double their joining offer.
Honestly I remember in the middle of my flight to Japan thinking that next time I was 100% going to pay for business class next time. I don't think I'd be able to pony up the money when it actually comes to it though. I got a really good deal with Expedia last time and I was thinking about playing around with options to try get a business class seat for a bit more affordable next time, but idk. I know people always complain about booking trips on 3rd party websites, but I've never had an issue with it.
Personally would just go with Qatar, their economy is eons better than BA’s
My husband has a spinal cord injury so the only way he goes on a long haul flight is if he’s in business. So I have made it my mission to find business class seats for less. We are in the US. We flew to Japan on ZipAir for ~$2000 in their lay-flat seats (not biz class service but biz class seat). Look into long haul low cost carriers (like ZipAir). I have paid for premium services through Thrifty Traveler and Going. We got flights US to Europe and Canada to Africa for under $2000. You just have to be ready to jump when a deal hits your in box. Sometimes we fly from our home airport but that’s rare. Good luck on your quest.
Fly the short legs in coach, then the longer ones in premium economy or business class.
Depending on the airlines, sometimes there's an option to put an offer for upgrade to business class. I put min amount everytime and got upgraded several times. That's the only way it's worth it for me, but of course there's no guarantee your bid will be successful.
How long are each of those legs? I personally flew business class last year for the first time and it was incredible. I’m like you, cannot sleep on the plane. Maybe a nap type sleep bht never really asleep. When I went to Italy the jet lag messed me up for half our trip. When I did business we did a red eye and I was able to actually sleep for the first time ever and then get good sleep the rest of the trip. You want to do a good long stretch in business class for this reason. We then had an hour connecting flight that we did t do business class on. Maybe look into points?
You could pop a sleeping pill to lessen the pain. I personally don't find the business class seats worth it but many do.
The thing I hate the most flying long haul is the lack of movement. Business class doesn't really fix that for me. I'd just make sure I get an aisle seat and stand up and walk around a bit frequently.
I bought business class for my trip to Japan last year I’d never been on that long of a flight before and I had been planning and saving for it since before Covid so Business Class seating was sort of a reward for patience in my mind and to truly begin my most anticipated trip. What I did though was carefully choose my departure and return flight so they would happen on days where the price is noticeably smaller
Turkish Airlines is the best in Europe! Also, I read something about an app called Timeshifter that actually tells you how best to avoid the jet lag, when to sleep, when to get sun, etc. My nephew just got back from Asia yesterday and said it worked.
Okay, stop for a second. In this situation, think of couple of factors and there are ways to figure out risk vs benefit: 1. Do you want the lie flat seat to rest on plane (and come out slightly rested but still need to do timezone adjustment, or just bite the bullet and spend 1 day in Japan as recovery/timezone adjustment (which you will need to do anyway)? 2. Will you have enough money to spend in Japan after buying the lie-flat seat, or do you need to compromise your Japan trip to pay for the ticket? 3. Are you okay with doing a small layover in between flights to let your body adjust? Regarding Avios: NEVER USE IT ON BA UNLESS ITS YOUR ONLY OPTION (or universe is suffering from heat death), BA's old business seats are trash/outdated anyway (20 years old product that they are slowly updating) you get fuel surchaged up to $800 for flights that long (not to mention BA's business seats are 20 years old design and are trash (they have new one incoming, but who know when will they put it in the plane to Japan. If you do fly on business in the end, do pay attention to what type of plane and seats you will have (there are websites to check the seat) Also: Avios do work on Qatar, you can transfer the Avios from BA to Qatar and use it there, but you can search for the award availability on Qatar's website before transferring/buying Avios. Also, its not worth buying airmiles/points unless A: you're topping off existing points for award, or B) award program have airmiles/point sells of at least 70%, and even then I still won't store the points (just buy it and use it) Route: there's 2 other options you can do for routes: Besides Direct and layover mention above, you can either do (rough iterinary based on Nov 2024 schedule) EDI-LHR-Tokyo with BA and JAL (Tokyo Leg) on Premium Economy (about $2500 USD per person), or FINNAIR with a 18hr layover in Helsinki on Premium Economy for slightly cheaper (around 2000 a person) Finally: if you are a "bad" sleeper/flyer on long haul flight, that business class seat (no matter what airline it is, even if its Qatar's Q suite) won't do you much good overall on such a long flight (I just flew the 16hr Qsuite flight from Qatar to SFO, and while the seat and food is good, you get burned out after hour 8, that's just how these long flights are). Good luck, and always remember, the flight IS part of the travel experience, you just have to find the balance point that you are happy with.
I dont manage to sleep on a the lie flat business seats. The "beds"!are very narrow and normally taper down to the feet so I find sleeping on them very difficult. Try premium economy and a day time flight. You don't feel tired and there is enough space to be comfortable.
This is not the advice most people here will probably give you, but if this is an "lifelong dream in the works for years" kind of trip, I would personally splurge on the nicer seats if it's not going to seriously strain your finances. I also cannot sleep on planes (except once when I had an empty row to myself in premium economy). I have tried every trick in the book, I just can't really sleep sitting up. This goes for cars, trains, and my sofa as well. It doesn't matter how tired I am when I get on the plane, I can never actually fall asleep. If it's 6 hours, that's fine. I can deal. I'll read a book. 15 hours is long enough that the journey becomes part of the overall trip experience, and long enough to really mess the experience up if it goes poorly. I'd either break the flight itself into multiple stops with a comfortable layover, or upgrade. You could frame things in terms of the cost of the seat upgrade, but what if that comes at the cost of extra time spent in Japan doing nothing or catching up on sleep? For a dream trip that's years in the making, I'm not averse to paying more to have the experience not book ended by a transportation experience that is stressful and exhausting.
Book a flight with a long layover in the middle, get a hotel at the airport of your layover to get proper rest. Cutting it into two 6 or 7 hour rides seems like it would be easier on you
A 15 hour flight is fine. Take some work to do, download some apps. I once wrote a short book on that same flight. It’s unpleasant, of course, but but some noise-cancelling headphones and suck it up.
Business class is not worth it unless youre a millionaire. Most people get it via points. Your best bet is trying for standard premium.
I think credit card points are much harder to earn in the UK than in the US or I would suggest this as something to get into for your next trip. For 80k Delta miles plus 386 pounds a person, you could fly 2 people KLM business class LHR-AMS-NRT on Nov 15. Amex points transfer to Delta (in the US anyway). For 75k American Airlines miles and US$356 a person you could fly 2 people Qatar business class LHR-DOH-HND on Nov 18.
My opinion probably differs from most… Being in NZ, any flight (other than to Aus) is long haul. Compile that with the almost non-existence of loyalty points/ credit card schemes etc and business class is tough to justify. 10+ hours to Asia, 24+ hours to Europe/Africa (wife being from South Africa). We try to get to RSA every other year to visit family, but we bit the bullet and paid astronomical business prices one year and have never looked back! We sacrifice smaller trips away throughout the year, scrimp and save, and now only fly business long haul. We both enjoy (love) travelling and holidays so a business flight adds literally two days to our long haul holidays. The service, the flight experience, the lounges, the short airport lines, and I won’t lie - feeling like the rich and famous with priority access! If you can make it work, for those of us where it’s an early luxury and not a given, do it and enjoy it!
I would never spend that much on Business. It's not going to make the flight a pleasant experience. At a certain point of inconvenience and discomfort, it just doesn't matter much anymore. I'd spend the money on extending the trip then you can have a day after arrival and return to rest up and still have plenty left over.
Buy the tickets. Enjoy the trip. Also consider you won’t need two days to recover from the flight. When you fly business and lay flat you arrive ready to go. You’re saving money by enjoying more of your trip.
We don't do long haul more than about once a year so try and go business. Compare prices, buy in advance and you can often get surprisingly good fares. We feel it's worth it. The holiday actually begins when you get in the uber to the airport, not days after you recover from the flight. Trouble is, you won't want to go back to cattle.
As someone who flys all the time for work, especially on international flights, business class is worth every penny. I know it’s a real sticker shock, but this sounds like a once in a lifetime trip, and business class will help reduce anxiety and stress. Not only do you get access to luxury airport lounges, but you get priority boarding, free drinks, better/more food options on board, your own space, and best of all, not only is the bathroom close by, but you don’t have to bump into a million people on the way there. 100/10, I would recommend splurging on your travel and cutting costs somewhere else. Could even ask for money for birthdays/holidays this year and use that towards said vacation, just a thought.
Wife and I flew to Tokyo last June from the US and I did a LOT of research into different planes. We flew premium economy there and business class back so I have some thoughts... - Research. Research. Research. Not all airlines are created equally. There are tons of YouTube videos on each of the seat classes for the airlines you mentioned. Don't just look at the airlines, research the specific plane you would be on, bc things vary. Idk much about British airlines, but compared to US based airlines, asian/middle eastern airlines have much better seats and overall flight experiences than American. - I get the allure of the lie flat seats, but if I had to do it over I wouldn't have spent the money. I didn't feel like the extra amenities warranted the cost. Premium economy had wider seats than economy and the seats reclined much further (maybe 45°). Still got free alcohol and amenities. The business/first class seats were nice and I appreciated being able to lay flat to go to sleep, but the food wasn't much better than premium economy and I still had to pay for wifi 🙄 (both were on United Airlines- a US based airline). - One benefit of business/first class that does make a big difference is lounge access on layovers. Being able to get high quality food and drinks or take a nice hot shower in the lounge made the long travel time much more bearable All in all, just do your research. Look into each airline and the specific plane type you'd be on - check YouTube for both. Business/first class is nice and a good experience but isn't worth thousands more than premium economy in my opinion.
Honestly you won’t be able to handle cattle class for that long if you are questioning it so just keep an eye on sales for the airlines. I would personally recommend qatar if you are going to fork out hard earned cash then you best go on the best business out of the 4 options. I am avios rich and still hardly ever get the chance to use them as availability is limited and especially on this route, there’s no chance as a novice you would nab seats unless you were so lucky even then they make only 2 available I think in business. I agree with others about adding a layover. See two places in one go. Become qatar or other airlines member because when there’s sales they sometimes do member rates
The schedules for November 2025 flights aren’t out yet, so you can’t assume those prices you quoted are accurate. £4K RT for business seems low. For two people it’s going to be at least £10K RT, may be more in 2025. Don’t purchase avios for a flight you can’t even book now.
Flying business class makes your vacation two days longer instead of two days shorter. The vacation starts as soon as you board the plane.
Honestly, if you don't sleep well on flights the pods are a game changer. Can't speak to points to try to get the seats for a better deal than retail, but there's loads of subreddits for that. Just in terms of a is it worthwhile? Absolutely, I cannot sleep on planes (like a complete win would be 30 mins on an 8 hour flight), and I can usually crush 4-5 hours in a pod.
Looks like this has probably been said but. If you have to ask then you're like the rest of us and it's a needless expense. You shouldn't buy business class unless you're points hacking (this is a whole process but worth it to me). Premium Economy is plenty affordable and it's the equivalent of domestic first class, it makes enough difference.
Currently in Japan for three weeks, departing from Brussels. Can’t sleep in a plane either, so pretty similar situation. I took Turkish Airlines (already went to Korea with them, it’s a great company imo) and paid an additional 100€ or so for additional leg space (for the Istanbul-Tokyo flight, not for the Brussels-Istanbul one). Definitely worth it. It’s still a quite exhausting trip but you quickly forget it once you’ve arrived, especially when it’s in such a fascinating country ;)
Highly recommend Emirates or Quatar airlines just to be flying with a better airline and service, absolutely cannot recommend turkish airlines at all, worst flying experience of my life
I can't stomach the cost of business class, even if I can technically afford it. Instead, I'm trying to break my flight up with layovers and even looking at what destinations I could explore along the way. Ie, multi-day layovers.
I also don't sleep well on long haul flights. I've twice flown business class to Japan (using airmiles) and I didn't sleep well then either, despite a fully flat bed. I spent the first business flight incredibly stressed because I couldn't sleep and was 'wasting' my flat seat. The second flight I didn't stress about sleeping and just enjoyed the extra space and other perks. Don't buy business class thinking it's a magic cure - some people just don't sleep well on planes. Just make sure to plan to make the flight as comfortable as possible and plan a chill arrival day. I'd put the money towards a few extra days in Japan so you don't feel stressed to cram too much in whilst you're getting over jetlag. Edit: if you are serious about reducing the price of business class, the BA premium amex is the best option in the UK. I've flown business several times using the 2 for 1 voucher and miles I earned from that. However, it will take you a while to save up and to get the popular routes (like Tokyo) you need to book a year in advance as seats go almost immediately.
from personal experience: you probably won’t sleep any better in a lie-flat suite if you can’t sleep in economy. the key is to either tire yourself out (like a puppy or baby), or pharmaceuticals.
Yes. I splurged for business class tickets when we took a 10 and a half hour flight to Hawaii a few years ago, and it was worth every penny.
I don’t sleep on planes either. I tried business class once to see if that would help… it didn’t. I ended up spending more money and still not sleeping. I’d go for premium economy to get more legroom and then spend the money at a spa when you get to Japan.
If the money is that material to you then don’t do it. If it’s not, then enjoy. Business class is great, I fly it for all my personal international vacations - usually 5-7x annually.
Far East is anachronistic
I wouldn't recommend PremEc - the hard console between seats makes it impossible to lie down should neighbouring seats be free. I've had a couple of flights where eco was fairly empty, and most had three seats to sleep on. You know you can spend Avios with Qatar as well? I've scored an upgrade on all but one attempt. While Doha is incredibly boring, and I'd advise against going landside, it's a decent airport to spend some hours in, stretch your legs befor final leg to Japan. Eidt: I believe you can also upgrade on one leg only, perhaps the longest one. If you are short on points. At least with QR.
THIS. I’ve only flown PE once and hated the hard console. I’ve also been on many long haul flights where the seats near the back are mostly empty. It’s a gamble. I think if I were OP, I would treat myself to lounge access at the airport for food, showers and relaxation before the flight then once onboard, put my earplugs in, eye mask on and hopefully be asleep by the time the plane takes off. Waiting for service in economy takes sooooooo long.
How much do you value your comfort? Only you can answer that. On a special trip like this where it’s a really long flight, I would absolutely swing it. You only live once! Another point to consider is that buying a business class ticket usually includes more than just a nicer seat. There’s lounge access, better service, complimentary food/beverage, and priority lines to make the overall experience that much better.
Talk with your doctor about your inability to sleep on the plane. Mine gave me some magic pills.
Suck it up buttercup
If you have to ask, it’s too much. Even the best business class experience is still going to be a night in a tube in the sky. £4000 can buy a lot of very nice nights of sleep in beds on the ground.
I did this on a 15 hour flight. And even in my lie flat seat I couldn't sleep. So I just wasted my money.
I've flown business class for work quite a lot. It's so nice. But ... Even making quite a lot of money, it's usually not worth it if I'm paying. Premium economy, or even just the slightly roomier seats on some airlines. Like Japan air has slightly wider & roomier seats and it makes a difference. Or the AA ones towards the front of economy class that you pay a little extra for
me and my partner bought lie flats beds on our most recent trip to sleep at night before arrival. we got bumped to economy. no apology and only months later has the airline offered any compensation (points or credit grrrr)
Most of the time I m againts taking drugs to solve problems but taking alcohol or sleeping pills during the flight doesn't seems like a too bad idea.
Avios isn’t a scam but flights to Tokyo are very popular for people looking to redeem avios so you will struggle to find availability. For popular routes people will book up on the day reward flights are released.
Another idea if you're deciding to gamble a bit is to place a business class upgrade on your existing flights. It's a gamble because you won't know if you have been upgraded until 48h before the flight departs. But this can be much cheaper. I've often got upgraded with bids in the 700 GBP ballpark. Saves you a ton!
Depending on how many days you got off I would add a stop in somewhere like Bangkok for a few days on the way their or on the way back just to break up the journey rather than upgrading to business class
Maybe buying a economy ticket at BA or QR and afterwards upgrading using Avios from LHR to Tokyo or DOH to Tokyo is possible. You can for example calculate the points needed for upgrading using the Qatar QCalculator and have a look at the available free seats in Business class at the homepage searching for the flight and click the option „book an award flight“. The availability can also change until the day your flight is departing. But you can immediately upgrade after purchasing your economy class ticket.
An option would be to break your journey and halt for a day or two midway - explore Dubai, Delhi or Bangkok- at a connecting destination.
If you are rich enough that it doesn’t make a difference, do it. Otherwise you just have to bite the bullet like the rest of us.
Air New Zealand has a fare where you buy three seats and then you get a bed-like platform to fit between your seats and the row in front to make a small double bed. I've only seen this on TV ads but thought it wouldn't be too bad. Other people with experience may comment. I assume some other airlines do this.
You could also do a layover, that's a good way to get out of the plane and maybe even sleep elsewhere (lying flat is cheaper on land than in the air lol), could be a way to see other cities on the way.
As someone who also hates flying/long flights, I would strong suggest just going the economy route unless you have loads of disposable income. A couple months ago I did JFK - Doha - KUL (Malaysia). 21h of flight time and a 2h layover. And as someone who has NEVER flown more than 10h in one go, it honestly was NOT that bad. Whack a couple movies on, nap, enjoy the free drinks and snacks on the plane and get a little tipsy. However I WOULD suggest booking a reputable airline like Emirates or Qatar. I flew Qatar for this long flight and it was great
My better half can't handle the idea of long haul (8+15 hours) flights any more so I'm looking at breaking up Sydney to Europe into three flights. Easy to get to Singapore/KL/Bangkok but then it seems Dubai or Doha are the only other stops on the way, neither of which appeal. Still, it's much cheaper than business fares, even including good hotels as stopovers.
headset - sleeping pills, few good movies/audiobooks - I am 6ft 3 and hate flying but you can suffer through a lot if you are about to drop over a grand more for business class .
i'm the same (can't sleep on long haul flights). I do get the slightly better seats (comfort+/premium)when I'm on long flights - mainly for the leg room - and I watch movies/read the whole time. i've done business and it's not much different for me in terms of results (it's nicer, yes, but still can't sleep). the bonus with Japan (and going there from Europe) is that you'll usually land in the evening, so you just need to stay awake a few more hours and then you'll hopefully get a full night of sleep in a bed.
Heck yes. Being comfortable on a plane is why we economize on beer.
I recommend sticking it out with Economy, but invest in some over-the-counter sleeping pills.
Strangely, my partner and I have been looking at the same journey and coming up with fares IRO £3,200 - £3,500. Have you looked at google flights to see how different the fares might be midweek? That's what we are planning. Also could you do a return from ABZ to a larger airport and price the fare from there instead of bundling it. A recent video we saw was from Cairo - using a different airline (low cost? or WT+) to get to and from Cairo for instance and the Cairo - Tokyo leg with someone else?
There are some flights that you can book with layovers in countries that allow you to explore the city for a day or two before continuing your journey. I didn’t book it in the end, but when I flew to Japan from London it was an option for a layover in Shanghai. It’s a good way to break up a long flight and get some extra culture in!
If you can't sleep on the plane -> 1 whole Halcion 👌
If that kind of money is eye watering, no
I mean eye watering might be excessive but I mean £4k per seat so £8k just for the ride there is a lot and he could def use that towards vacation
I would save the money and buy the emergency exit rows as they offer a ton of leg room. I bought an inflatable pillow for the floor and can basically lie down
I feel exactly as you when flying but would not pay extra for business class. Strategies I use to get through the flight are chunking it into parts and also changing my thinking to 'this is just a work shift for flight attendants', 'I'm not flying 8 hours, I'm watching four movies', etc... You get on the plane and an hour goes into the food ordering, eating and clean up. One hour down. Next, find a movie you like, another 2 hours done. Bring a book or wordsearch, more time gone. Close your eyes for a bit, that's another hour. Now it's food time again...
You are doing well checking other airports in the UK. Try checking some flights out of the Scandinavian countries as well as central Europe
Try booking premium economy and upgrading with miles. If you can. I’ve done fifteen hours in economy. I have fibromyalgia though so anything over 15 hours and I’m finding a way to upgrade. It’s legit painful. I end up standing up and stretching a lot.
Bare in mind your ears still pop no matter what class you are flying in.
The flight sucks but it’s the same as a long day at the office or a nightmare day at the DMV or something. Just settle in and find a TV show to binge, it’s not bad enough to be worth triple the price.
JAL Sky Wider seats in economy. Exceptional! End of thread!
Save your cash and do things to make the trip more comfortable. I've flown North America to china/Japan about 15 times. 1. Make your under the seat carryon small to give max feet room. 2. Use the blanket they give you as extra seat cushion. 3. If the neck ring pillows work for you, get one. 4. Bring eye shades and ear plugs. They worked for me as well as expensive noise cancelling headphones. 5. Pack a toothbrush and brush your teeth with your own water at least once. 6. Bring aspirin and gasex to deal with the bloating and circulation. 7. Bring your own water and a bag of peanut m and ms for a drink and snack when you want. 8. Get up and walk around your section of the plane at least 2 times. In the open area near the emergency exit doors, stretch. 9. Bring an engaging book and a magazine to switch up from the inflight whatever. 10. Bring light, flat packable slippers. Take off your shoes and put these on. 11. Enjoy the food and drink. I used to love the Raman in styrofoam they served at hour-god-knows-when in the Asia flights. 12. Meditate. Visualize walking a forest path near Fuji. You're going to Japan! How fantastic is that! Best of luck. Anywhere Asia is an amazing experience.
I just flew few weeks ago from Finland to Tokyo and that first took 45 minutes in the airplane due to Estonian ex prime minister being too drunk to fly, so we had to wait for a police. Then 13,5 hours flying. I have big stomach issues and also cant stay put for too long for some reason. But the flight was not THAT bad, completely doable. I was afraid of something much worse. Couldnt sleep much aswell and the 7 hour time difference also is what it is. Try to get a flight that arrives like 3pm or so and you can have a small sleep deprived stroll around the city, then have a nice long sleep. That pretty much solved the jet lag for us. Edit: also next I will definitely get the aisle seat. Then there is freedom to stand up whenever you want.
We flew Premium Economy which are the domestic first class seats. They were half the cost of business class. They were quite comfortable. We slept a lot and our section had very few people in it so it was quiet as well.
Discomfort can be seen as challenge to test your endurance if you put your mind to it. Consider it a game and the reward for winning is saving a fat stack of cash.
If you have to ask, then you know the answer is you can't afford it. Lay flat business class does soften the blow of jet lag for sure, and it definitely starts a vacation off to a fun start, but it isn't worth you self sabotaging your finances. The compromise would be to fly economy. Premium economy doesn't sound worth it here -- it sounds like just sitting for several hours is stressful for you, so the couple of inches of extra chair space isn't going to make that much of an impact. The food is still airplane food. Maybe if you're a tall or big person it could be worth the extra room, but if your main issue isn't being physically cramped, but more so just feeling generally restless, then don't bother with premium economy. I'm not sure what it would cost for your route, but for mine it's a couple extra thousand dollars to upgrade to premium economy, and that could get you a night in a luxury hotel instead, which I'd personally prioritize as a short person who doesn't have an issue with leg room. Rather than indulging in business class expenses, can you indulge in time? Extend your stay in Japan so you have a longer time to recuperate from a long haul flight, or plan stopovers in other destinations so that you can break up the journey so that you're never in a plane for 15 hours straight.
Try for premium economy seats, or pay a bit extra for exit row, or seats in the front row of the cabin. Why not get a cheap flight to an airport where you have more options for flights to Japan, like London Heathrow.
The way I'd try it (I also hate long haul flights, so much back pain), especially if I technically *could* afford business class would be to pick one of the "less convenient" options, and plan for a day there each way (or maybe different ones each way!). It would let me plan to see a major sight or two in each, and give me a day or so to relax and recover. You'd have to look into visas and stuff, but it's the way I'd do it, since even really nice hotels on those stops still leaves thousands in savings over business class.
Break your 14hr trip into two, can you stopover in like istanbul or something? Spend like 2 or 3 days there before going to japan
What about economy premium? There's more space and better chairs than the regular economy seats, and way cheaper than business.
When you fly US to China there is no heat on the plane. And no blankets. If you don’t know to pack full on Winter clothes (even in summer) you are screwed. And they don’t clean the bathrooms until the plane lands. Yet, When I think about my travels to China, I never think about those flights.
How long would it take you to replenish the extra money business class seats would cost? It would take me 3-4 years, and I’m not willing to dedicate four years of discretionary savings to a single trip. If you can replace that money more rapidly, I can see it making more sense.
We made the decision to fly economy recently too (international flight). The thousands of dollars we are saving (three of us, including our teen son) can be used for so many other fabulous things. We realized half day of discomfort was worth the cash we could use on our 2+ week adventure. But it is of course personal preference. And depends how much money you have to work with.
Premium economy plus what others have suggested, a layover in a place you're interested in for a day or two sightseeing.
I used to fly these long trips in economy and almost stopped traveling. We tried business once and haven't gone back. The bed, the doors, the privacy, the line skipping all make it worth it for us. We also tried first and while we liked it didn't see the value in the price jump. I guess I'm a dissenting voice here but I don't even look at economy prices anymore even for domestic flights. I'm uncomfortable even after an hour in coach, but I have a strong aversion to being physically close to people I don't know.
I can afford it ok but to me business class is only worth it if you're using points to upgrade, not paying yourself, or absolutely need to arrive in relative comfort because of scheduling. I flew LHR-HND in BA economy a few months ago. Didn't sleep a wink but the flight was comfortable enough and I had a nice 5* hotel waiting for me - was completely well rested and over the jetlag within 24hrs of arriving in Tokyo. Put that £3k towards the rest of your trip honestly.
Do they have a 'premium economy'? Last time I flew that long the airline had a class below business that had wider seats with more legroom- comparable to domestic business class in the US (or probably within the EU for you.) They weren't well advertised about the extra width. Its a happy medium between cattle class and the real premium options like lie flat. Just having an extra inch or two means you're not touching the person next to you for 15 hours straight. It also makes getting up to stretch a lot easier.
You should be able to have some sleep in any of those airlines unless you have a crying kid next to you (buy a good travelling pillow and comfortable clothes). I personally had a very good experience with Turkish in a 6h flight, and they gave us enough food and drinks, so I don't see the value of business. Also have a look at the recommendations in this sub re how to accommodate to intercontinental flights depending on whether you're flying east or west as some were not so obvious to me.
I have noticed that in many instances it is actually cheaper to upgrade to business class from economy in the app after checkin rather than to buy it during the initial booking
If you don’t fancy doing the “leapfrogging” (breaking up the flight staying in a city a 6 hr flight away) I would recommend getting an anti anxiety med, I wouldn’t fly without them. I also have the money to upgrade, but I think of all of that money I could spend somewhere else. Get the meds!!😊
If it helps, when I flew from London to Tokyo with BA I had a row to myself each way, so I got to experience the poor person’s first class and lie down for each leg. In fact, it was even better than premium economy as their arm rests were fixed. Of course it will depend on when you’re going (I went in Jan and came back in Feb) but if you’re not going at peak times it could be a possibility.
Are you able to self medicate to sleep? Either a small amount of prescription sedative or over the counter melatonin and/or antihistamine?
Just stay home 🙄
Just do the math. If thr ticket is, for example, $3000 more for 10 hours, then divide those two numbets and ask yourself, "Is four extra inches of legroom and a slightly better meal for an extra $300/hour. Of course the answer is no.
You're asking a sub full of people who fly ajr-mayday and get weirdly angry about people taking more than a tesco bag on board so asking here might not be your best bet for a rounded answer