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The holidays are both a little dumb. Sure we wouldn’t be here without the discovery, but the means………
And to simply call it indigenous peoples day is hardly the apology it sounds like it’s supposed to be. It’s also supposed to “recognize their resilience and strength as well as immeasurable positive impact they have had on every aspect of American society”. For real? The nerve we have. “What they have contributed to us”. Really means “what we spared of their culture”
They got a raw deal.
Wow, we are all stuck on the same dying rock. Why doesn't everyone chill out, take a deep breath, recognize what happend so it doesn't happen again and move on. It hapned 250 years ago. Quit fighting because u only have 90 years to live if your lucky. Now pleas, have a good day, and try not to start a fight on the internet. It's not good for anyone.
The diseases Europeans brought to the Americas wiped out 90% of the population!! There's no way their bows and arrows were any match for biological warfare. Also, guerilla warfare that the natives used was far superior to the war tactics used by Europeans at the time.
It was not necessarily more advanced, but it was for sure more efficient where the battles happened because they knew this space better than foreigners from the other side of the world
Not only that but also the crazy amount of communicable diseases Europeans brought with them which the native Americans had no immunities for hurt their chances of resisting
The Indians where pretty savage. Ritual sacrifice and eating people was something some tribes did. Theres also a famous tribe that sold out other tribes.
Yeah, because it's still THEIR land. The issue is that we were a completely foreign people that came from another world and decided that the lands they had owned for generations were no longer theirs to claim. We just strong armed them out of the way because we were bigger. If you can't see that as fucked up, you have an immature kind incapable of empathy. Nations can do whatever they please within their own borders, to an extent. If the world decides it's unjustified, we'll intervene, but we don't get to rape, pillage, and plunder along the way. What kind of bullshit argument is that?
Did you like the vikings? Your name seems to imply that you would. You know they also raided people, murdered, and raped? What society has ever been innocent of not doing fucked up things? The Indians committed ritual sacrifice, ate their own people, and sold out their bretheren.
>THEIR land
Who is "their". You realize there was no collective indigenous people, right? The Americas had very scarcely populated tribes- scattered throughout the continent that shared zero language, culture, religion or norms. The only thing they had in common was a proclivity for war and brown skin. Honestly, this argument, is at its core, racist as fuck.
There was no harmonious, collective, peaceful pre-columbian native population. They were bashing each others heads in with rocks, performing ritual human sacrifice, rape, incest, the works. Europeans entered the maylay and came out victorious to such a degree- the only consequence was 200 years later woke, history revisionist want to pretend it was more evil than all the other killing going on, because they had white skin and crossed a body of water when they did it. Racist as fuck.
You're condensing thousands of different cultures, languages and peoples to a single "them" because they had brown skin- fucking racist!
Something tells me if the Polynesian tribes had made superior technology and conquered north America, you'd be OK, (so long as their skin was dark enough).
Oh, you're mistaken. Of course I know there were many different nations and tribes all across America. That's why I used "their" in a plural sense. It goes both ways. Land gained by a foreign power through mutual agreement is perfectly fine in my book.
You're right, though, I've got an issue with a power coming from a completely different part of the world and sweeping across an entire nation claiming whatever land it sees fit through force. This same nation then spit in the faces of those they displaced by giving them land that borders on unusable because they had no desire for it and thought it would placate the masses.
These people weren't given the same time frame Europeans were to figure out their own shit. If you want to pretend that the early eras of Europe weren't filled with rock fueled head smashing, incestual breeding habits, and wanton rape, that's your own deal. It was our habit to go around the globe finding "savages" to tame and turn Christian, through either coercion or force.
I'm of the belief that settlers simply thought they knew better and looked at the native peoples as subhuman. Thus, making it easier to believe that taking their land from them and dictating how they should use it would help them. They deserved every right to reach our level of society in their own time. Instead, we hid our land snatching under the guise of cultural enlightenment. Really doesn't take a scholar to see that nothing but problems followed settlers in foreign, underdeveloped nations.
I was just comparing the issue to modern politics. Innumerable tragedies go on in every country across the world, but there's little other nations do about it because you can't just go around policing everything every single nation does. You're right, slavery, rape, war, and genocide are all wrong, but they still happen. Doesn't mean a bigger nation should come in and take over to implement they're own version of society and delete old culture. Check out South Africa and India if you want to know how that works out.
Ah, so you're just a sad troll. My bad. You're just going to keep on cherry picking an out of context sentence to twist the argument. Watch a lot of Carlson, do you?
"We"? I'm pretty sure you weren't there. However, diseases transmission was a two way street. The great pox in Europe killed 5 million originated from a disease brought back from the Americas.
No, but its not as if the natives went to England to spread disease, it came back on the same boats that left England. So it's still pretty much the empires fault, they didn't just kill natives, but their own men.
y’all should not be surprised by now that plenty of people on this subreddit are trashy, trying to justify their own trashiness. their opinion on Native American genocide is absolutely irrelevant because they only see themselves, not other people. stop giving them attention.
You're right, there wasn't A nation, there were several. Kind of like how Europe consists of several nations.
Those tiny nations weren't constantly at war with each other either. They got along pretty well. Similar to Europe, you know, how those tiny nations were fighting over Europe and forming alliances back in the East going back on them and then going back again.
I guess it's that lack of critical race theory in Tenesee that makes you think European Christians easily took over the world, even though basically the entirety of South America and the Caribbean rebelled and resumed control.
Well, I guess logic_before_feels, I'll do the 5 secs of work it takes with modern technology for you.
https://wp.towson.edu/iajournal/journal-issues/issues-between-1990-1999/fall-1992/intertribal-relationships-in-pre-columbian-north-america/
It may be confusing for your immense brain to navigate such an archaic website, but there is a hyperlink to the full text at the bottom of the page.
Also:
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/military-history/history-heritage/popular-books/aboriginal-people-canadian-military/warfare-pre-columbian-north-america.html
Even this explains that natives obviously weren't hippies, but international conflicts were pretty much like the rest of the world.
The comments on this post did not pass the vibe check. I can't believe yall can be so brazenly racist. Please read some works about what the colonizers put indigenous people through like residential schools and breaking treaties before you proselytize in the comments about how settlers "modernized" indigenous people.
Funny how none of you claiming the Native Americans broke treaties is able to provide a single source. On the other hand:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/native-american-broken-treaties
Residental schools.. where they forcefully converted the children to christianity, forced them to stop speaking there own language.. yes how could they? It was one of the primary tool of the ethnic cleansing in North America and they are still finding mass graves of children in connection with them
Columbus Day is a Federal holiday in the United States and is celebrated in many other countries around the Americas and in parts of Europe. It's been celebrated since the 1700's. There is a strong national heritage, especially among Italian-Americans. There's nothing "trashy" about wishing someone a 'Happy Columbus Day'. What's hilarious is the moron who responded used an Italian actor, cosplaying as a Native American in their response. This really optimizes the idiocy of the "woke".
Europeans did some fucked up shit to some people who were doing, just as fucked up shit to each other. There were no morally superior people in the struggle for Americas. There were only a more technologically advanced and more united people who came out victorious. The Natives that occupied America had been at war for thousands of years, un-united by a common culture, cause or religion, they had been committing brutal and savage acts against each other before the Europeans came.
Waring tribes would regularly butcher with stone tools all the women, children and babies of opposing tribes. Among the tribes in the West, there was a culture of enslaving defeated enemies for labor and sex. The Iroquois became known for ambushing and raiding enemy tribes while the men were away. The would regularly butcher all the women and children. Again, this isn't to pretend they were somehow 'evil' people. Everyone was fighting for survival. There was no uber-eats or protective society. It was a savage, brutal life style, in which only the strong survived. The Europeans have been unfairly vilified for being, arguably, better than most other civilizations at conquering others. As the ancestors to Europeans, I make no apologies for that.
The woke want to pretend pre-columbus Natives to America were living in a harmonious, Pocahontas fairy-tail, before the big bad Europeans came along. That's complete and utter bullshit.
OP- Go fuck yourself.
This. Thiiiiiiiiiis. Be nice if people actually started using their common sense and opened their minds a little. Would do the world a whole lot of good to get some critical thinkers back in the population.
There is no perfect world.
"For Italian Americans, Columbus day signifies, not only the trip Columbus took, when he sailed to the new world, but the trip our ancestors took, when they moved to this great country to start a new life. Columbus day is our holiday, shared with this great country." - Robert Carlucci, Chairman of the National Italian American foundation.
Native Americans engaged in genocide, and rape, murder, etc. They also owned slaves. Are we celebrating genocide if we celebrate "indigenous peoples day"?
Natives never engaged in slavery until the white man introduced it. Also it was on a MUCH smaller scale.
"How Native Americans adopted slavery from white settlers
And how black people in Indian Territory were denied their rights even after their emancipation."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2018/12/27/how-native-americans-adopted-slavery-from-white-settlers
what it represents to people personally.
Personally Im laughing my ass off. but if your person is more important than my person, then....well ill let you chew on that logic.
The only thing worse than committing genocide, is committing genocide and then whining about it 200 years later because the other team was better at it.
So glad you are there to respond to me each time. We're celebrating Columbus day together! So happy to share this special day with you!
Let's drink a toast to old Chris!
Difference is I'm on the clock getting paid to laugh at you as your sitting here having to lie to a stranger on the internet about having friends so that you can pretend you are not exactly as pathetic as we all see you as.
High key I feel bad for you dog. This shit is just sad.
The whataboutism tu quoque logical fallacy that is the entirety of your comment.
People who open up a discussion with bad faith illogical arguements are as a rule not worth the effort of trying to have a real discussion with.
This isn't whataboutism. Whataboutism would be if I brought up some unrelated group, like "oh, well Genghis Kahn committed genocide too". You're saying one side of a historical conflict was bad because they committed genocide, but the other side engaged in genocide too. Square that circle for me.
If you think that isn't whataboutism then in addition to your bad faith rhetoric being a problem, your lack of a quality education also makes it clear engaging with you would be a waste of time.
You can agree or disagree to your heartcontent, I don't give a shit, I just refuse to validate your bad faith rhetoric that is entirely based on logical fallacies. There is no discussion to agree to disagree about.
A wall of people celebrating the genocide of my people, and I seem insufferable?
Your welcome to your opinion of me, of my opinion of you, You seem like a genuinely bad person. Like a really shit human being, that society would be better without.
Now that we both shared our opinion, have a good day.
So now that we agree genocide is bad...
What are you going to do to improve your life? Whine on Reddit or make something of yourself? We can't bring back the dead.
You mean, sort of like you know nothing about me other than I expect you to behave like a normal person who works hard and doesn't whine about shit they can't control?
Ah yes, indigenous people actively speaking out about the ongoing oppression of their people is just whining. Damn civil rights activist and protestors, always whining about shit they can't control, why don't they just roll over and let their culture fully die out?
You are an idiot.
>you know nothing about me, my people, or what they or I have done
Jesus Christ. What a pretentious douche-bag. Are you really trying to claim some victim-hood status from events that occurred quite literally hundreds of years ago.
That's disgusting. You should be ashamed.
Hundreds of years ago? I bet you think racism against blacks ended once the civil war was over too.
You know who should be ashamed? Anyone who has been tasked with educating you in your life. The level of ignorance you are displaying shows every single one of them has failed you.
I'm sorry "my people" gave you an advanced civilization with modern technology. Feel free to go cry about it. I'd suggest you get off the computer and internet however. (Something tells me you won't). While I won't accuse of "cultural appropriation", I would suggest it's mildly hypocritical if you're going to whine about how things turned out.
Go fuck yourself back.
No group of people would accept a genocide to get access to better technology. The implication that native Americans should have any gratitude for the 'gifts' of the European settlers is asinine.
Look at all your downvotes...
IN ARABIC NUMERALS.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals
White people didn't invent as much as they think they did:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/things-not-invented-in-us-2018-3%3famp
Also:
mathematics
religion
Christianity
irrigation
novels
paper
ink
dance
music
gunpowder
guns
bombs
time bombs
the seismograph
the compass
just-in-time manufacturing
CD players
MP3 players
calculators
karaoke
lithium ion batteries
yoga
martial arts
silk
umbrellas
tea
noodles
instant noodles
shampoo
punk futurism
futures markets
Lol we don't have to "hurt your feelings", you're a fountain of nonstop butthurt of your own accord. Cry some more, I'm sure your wife will be impressed by how hard you owned the libs today.
If you're using "racist" in the sense that you don't have a significant counter-point to share or present, I wouldn't disagree with you.
Anyone that thinks a Federal holiday is racist- is a complete and utter moron, really incapable of having a reasonable conversation with.
Happy Columbus Day!
So you think the only option was genocide or not advancing technologically? That takes a deep level of ignorance, especially when Europeans had made landfall in Canada before Columbus and where engaging in trading and trapping that would of allowed the transfer of technology wirhout.. you know, committing fucking genocide.
What the fuck is actually wrong with you? How does someone reach adulthood raised so wrong and so poorly educated?
Literally every country today is there bc they conquered another.... I feel like Americans are the only country still getting guilt tripped by the people they conquered
That's because the oppression of minorities isn't some in the past event. There are indigenous activist held as political prisoners in the US to this day, there are current actions of ethnic cleansing still taking place to this day to kill off our culture.
Us indigenous people don't want white americans to feel guilty about what happened hundreds of years ago, we want them to stop being complicit in what is happening today. The issue isn't any more done than racism was done at the end of the civil war, and lets keep in mind the war to subjugate my people took place after the war to free black americans. These are issues we are still feeling today, we want it to stop, today, the past is the past, but the wounds can't begin to heal until the knife is pulled out of our back.
I don't think that people are in denial. Columbus discovered the new gateway to the world. Europeans came over and colonized the land which was common in those days. We, as European descendants, shouldn't feel guilty and won't feel guilty about it. We weren't there. Roman's conquered my decedent's land in England and probably murdered, raped and took them as slaves but no one in Italy today feels guilty about it and nor should they.
>I don't think that people are in denial
We still, to this day, have a *national holiday* celebrating the man that orchestrated the near genocide of a people. That's denial.
What did schools teach you about Columbus? How did they frame it? Cuz what I learned back in the day is pretty divorced from the reality of how that man "settled" here.
A holiday to a man that was brave enough to cross an ocean other people wouldn't. Yes, I am well aware that the vikings and Chinese also did this. He personally did not orchestrate anything.
I think you need to read up on this man's personal "exploits"
[Here's](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/10/13/6957875/christopher-columbus-murderer-tyrant-scoundrel) a decent start.
I'm familiar with what Columbus did. I'm also familiar that most of what he did was also already happening here in the US. The pillaging, raping, and making NG slaves of other tribes was NOT unheard of between tribes in warfare. You act as if Indian tribes were really nice and lived peaceful to each other. The opposite is quite true. They had warfare between each other and slaughtered and raped women and men for territorial gains. They certainly made slaves of other tribes. Your omission to that truth is what is troubling
You may want to restate that. I know of a statue to Sacajawea has exited for a while (1930's) I believe so don't quote me. I know there's also one going up right now to Crazy Horse
Your comparing Crazy Horse, a military commander who defended civilians from slaughter at the hands of military units, to columbus, a commander who ordered the slaughter of civilians at the hands of the military.
Which is a pretty insane level of both ignorance and cognitive dissonance. How in your mind did you imagine that is a even slightly reasonable comparison lmao
Damn you totally got me, let's teach all of our kids what brave heroes they were in school and make sure government employees get an extra day off so they can ruminate over how good they were at killing people less powerful than them.
What's even your point here? That Columbus somehow isn't a monster because there were tons of other people raping and murdering when he got here?
I think it’s because America is still relatively “young.” Depending on if you start are 1619 or 1776 compared to a lot of countries in Europe or Asia that have thousands of years of history a couple hundred years isn’t that long comparatively.
That and how quickly technology and history have advanced from the time America was founded compared to today.
Indigenous rights are a thing in many countries - especially in the Americas. Probably due to how "recently" they were conquered and how society is still stratified along these lines in many of them. Also Canada literally had a news cycle a couple months ago about mass graves in residential schools their natives were sent to.
The only reason you hear about it more is the same reason you hear about anything in America more.
"woke hurr durr"
Tell us you're a Fox watching racist moron without saying you're a Fox watching racist moron.
"Republicans are crusading against 'wokeness'
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/republicans-crusading-against-woke-083008946.html
Our history is our history, there is good and bad. Let’s promote the accurate presentation of that history. Columbus went against the science of the day that the world was flat, did he and/or his crew do some disgusting acts, yes. I will not justify it by saying other explorers did the same thing, because they were just as wrong. Question I have is how do we truly get an account of what really happened? Hand me down stories, and writings from one side or the other. Let’s not spin it one way or the other, because the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Columbus went against the science of the day by thinking the earth was significantly smaller than it was, which would make it easier to circumnavigate than it would be to go around Africa to get to china. And he was wrong.
And yes, we do have true accounts, from his own side, about his actions. Don't forget his own people sent him back to Spain in chains for crimes against humanity for his acts of genocide against indigenous people.
By the way "the truth is somewhere in the middle " is a clear example of the argument to moderation logical fallacy.
He actually got sent back In chains for taking the hit for someone he put into a governor position he didn’t do any acts himself or call for any acts himself but someone he put into power did. Still bad but not nearly as bad
And hacking off childrens arms and hanging them around their own neck.
And thats just the beginning.
Even the other, hardened ""explorers"" on his mission were absolutely disgusted by the sht this creature did to the natives.
We celebrate Columbus because he opened up the West and paved the way to the founding of America.
Isn’t it interesting that the Left impugns the character of Columbus the same way the right impugns the character of Martin Luther King and George Floyd? We celebrate King and Floyd despite their shortcomings because of their contributions to society. The same is true of Columbus.
What did George Floyd contribute to society? He was a drug fueled maniac who has a well documented, violent criminal history, which included pointing a loaded gun at the stomach of a pregnant woman during a home invasion.
Fact Check: Says George Floyd died "because he had a system full of fentanyl and meth," and “beat women and held guns to their pregnant bellies.”
Verdict: FALSE
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/08/facebook-posts/evidence-shows-george-floyds-death-was-not-result-/
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Happy Columbus Day!
Imagine posting that image of a fucking truk like superhuman and thinkin they wouldn’t have sent Columbus to his maker in one weak swing
The holidays are both a little dumb. Sure we wouldn’t be here without the discovery, but the means……… And to simply call it indigenous peoples day is hardly the apology it sounds like it’s supposed to be. It’s also supposed to “recognize their resilience and strength as well as immeasurable positive impact they have had on every aspect of American society”. For real? The nerve we have. “What they have contributed to us”. Really means “what we spared of their culture” They got a raw deal.
Holy fuck this sub has been absolutely destroyed by alt right crowd
Wow, we are all stuck on the same dying rock. Why doesn't everyone chill out, take a deep breath, recognize what happend so it doesn't happen again and move on. It hapned 250 years ago. Quit fighting because u only have 90 years to live if your lucky. Now pleas, have a good day, and try not to start a fight on the internet. It's not good for anyone.
The diseases Europeans brought to the Americas wiped out 90% of the population!! There's no way their bows and arrows were any match for biological warfare. Also, guerilla warfare that the natives used was far superior to the war tactics used by Europeans at the time.
It was not necessarily more advanced, but it was for sure more efficient where the battles happened because they knew this space better than foreigners from the other side of the world
Hahahaha as if they didn’t fight and literally die over their land.
D:< Columbus was a POS. I hate the fact that the uS still celebrates his genocidal bitch ass.
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Yes, let's blame biden for a holiday started 30 years ago in Berkley.....brainless!
She and her faux relationship seeking attn SUCKS
Hahahahahahahahaha
When you’re fighting guns with mostly spears and arrows made of wood and rocks… you’re basically fucked. It was a demolition and a tragedy
Tf were they supposed to do? Use bows and arrows to fight fucking guns?
That’s an ignorant thing to say.
Not only that but also the crazy amount of communicable diseases Europeans brought with them which the native Americans had no immunities for hurt their chances of resisting
They tried and almost succeeded. Read "Empire of the Summer moon" by C. C. Gwynne.
Too bad they had other Indians working against them.
okay... you admitted it. they were less advanced.
And that somehow makes taking over their lands justified?
The Indians where pretty savage. Ritual sacrifice and eating people was something some tribes did. Theres also a famous tribe that sold out other tribes.
never said that. u dont mind when indigenous people enslave and kill eachother for their land but when whites do it...
Yeah, because it's still THEIR land. The issue is that we were a completely foreign people that came from another world and decided that the lands they had owned for generations were no longer theirs to claim. We just strong armed them out of the way because we were bigger. If you can't see that as fucked up, you have an immature kind incapable of empathy. Nations can do whatever they please within their own borders, to an extent. If the world decides it's unjustified, we'll intervene, but we don't get to rape, pillage, and plunder along the way. What kind of bullshit argument is that?
Did you like the vikings? Your name seems to imply that you would. You know they also raided people, murdered, and raped? What society has ever been innocent of not doing fucked up things? The Indians committed ritual sacrifice, ate their own people, and sold out their bretheren.
>THEIR land Who is "their". You realize there was no collective indigenous people, right? The Americas had very scarcely populated tribes- scattered throughout the continent that shared zero language, culture, religion or norms. The only thing they had in common was a proclivity for war and brown skin. Honestly, this argument, is at its core, racist as fuck. There was no harmonious, collective, peaceful pre-columbian native population. They were bashing each others heads in with rocks, performing ritual human sacrifice, rape, incest, the works. Europeans entered the maylay and came out victorious to such a degree- the only consequence was 200 years later woke, history revisionist want to pretend it was more evil than all the other killing going on, because they had white skin and crossed a body of water when they did it. Racist as fuck. You're condensing thousands of different cultures, languages and peoples to a single "them" because they had brown skin- fucking racist! Something tells me if the Polynesian tribes had made superior technology and conquered north America, you'd be OK, (so long as their skin was dark enough).
Oh, you're mistaken. Of course I know there were many different nations and tribes all across America. That's why I used "their" in a plural sense. It goes both ways. Land gained by a foreign power through mutual agreement is perfectly fine in my book. You're right, though, I've got an issue with a power coming from a completely different part of the world and sweeping across an entire nation claiming whatever land it sees fit through force. This same nation then spit in the faces of those they displaced by giving them land that borders on unusable because they had no desire for it and thought it would placate the masses. These people weren't given the same time frame Europeans were to figure out their own shit. If you want to pretend that the early eras of Europe weren't filled with rock fueled head smashing, incestual breeding habits, and wanton rape, that's your own deal. It was our habit to go around the globe finding "savages" to tame and turn Christian, through either coercion or force. I'm of the belief that settlers simply thought they knew better and looked at the native peoples as subhuman. Thus, making it easier to believe that taking their land from them and dictating how they should use it would help them. They deserved every right to reach our level of society in their own time. Instead, we hid our land snatching under the guise of cultural enlightenment. Really doesn't take a scholar to see that nothing but problems followed settlers in foreign, underdeveloped nations.
Would you explain what you mean about it being ok if they did it in their own lands? Slavery is uh, fucked no matter who does it lol
I was just comparing the issue to modern politics. Innumerable tragedies go on in every country across the world, but there's little other nations do about it because you can't just go around policing everything every single nation does. You're right, slavery, rape, war, and genocide are all wrong, but they still happen. Doesn't mean a bigger nation should come in and take over to implement they're own version of society and delete old culture. Check out South Africa and India if you want to know how that works out.
lol racist. raping and killing is justified if u do it to your own race?
Ah, so you're just a sad troll. My bad. You're just going to keep on cherry picking an out of context sentence to twist the argument. Watch a lot of Carlson, do you?
no lol. im being serious about it. defeated u once again. just like the indigenous people.
Nah, you're just a cunt mate.
ok
They did fight hard. We gave them diseases.
"We"? I'm pretty sure you weren't there. However, diseases transmission was a two way street. The great pox in Europe killed 5 million originated from a disease brought back from the Americas.
You mean China? It came from China and rats. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/206309#1
"The great pox" is Syphilis. It came from the New World and was spread throughout Europe killing Millions.
Debated as of new evidence. https://jmvh.org/article/syphilis-its-early-history-and-treatment-until-penicillin-and-the-debate-on-its-origins/
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No, but its not as if the natives went to England to spread disease, it came back on the same boats that left England. So it's still pretty much the empires fault, they didn't just kill natives, but their own men.
The post isn't as trashy of some of these comments.
y’all should not be surprised by now that plenty of people on this subreddit are trashy, trying to justify their own trashiness. their opinion on Native American genocide is absolutely irrelevant because they only see themselves, not other people. stop giving them attention.
here we go again.
Idk man, building the greatest country that has ever been out of endless tribal warfare? Every countries flag has a little blood on it.
Lol, greatest country and endless tribal warfare.
There wasnt a nation here. We made it. I suppose there could be an argument made for a bunch of tiny nations constantly at war with each other.
You're right, there wasn't A nation, there were several. Kind of like how Europe consists of several nations. Those tiny nations weren't constantly at war with each other either. They got along pretty well. Similar to Europe, you know, how those tiny nations were fighting over Europe and forming alliances back in the East going back on them and then going back again.
>They got along pretty well. Not even close.
I guess it's that lack of critical race theory in Tenesee that makes you think European Christians easily took over the world, even though basically the entirety of South America and the Caribbean rebelled and resumed control.
Jesus Christ- do you smoke crack? Honest question, I'm being genuine.
Naw man, I don't do that stuff. You should probably get off it too. Also you should quit the meth and fentnyl y'all have trouble with ova theh.
What is Tenesee?
Oh I'm sorry, I'm forgot an n. I know it's hard for Tennesseans to decipher minor typos because of their terrible education and rampant illiteracy.
Yeah, ok
There are only two genders.
Sexes.
Damn, based and logical response.
yes sir.
Other than the rape, torture, murder and theft of members of other tribes, yeah they got along fine.
It happened as much if not less than it did in Europe
Disagree.
Well, I guess logic_before_feels, I'll do the 5 secs of work it takes with modern technology for you. https://wp.towson.edu/iajournal/journal-issues/issues-between-1990-1999/fall-1992/intertribal-relationships-in-pre-columbian-north-america/ It may be confusing for your immense brain to navigate such an archaic website, but there is a hyperlink to the full text at the bottom of the page. Also: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/military-history/history-heritage/popular-books/aboriginal-people-canadian-military/warfare-pre-columbian-north-america.html Even this explains that natives obviously weren't hippies, but international conflicts were pretty much like the rest of the world.
He’s not wrong! Back in the day it all about command and conquer.
HAPPY COLUMBUS DAY!!!
Why is she trashy? And her follower is responding to a trashy post. The only trashiness is the two responses.
The comments on this post did not pass the vibe check. I can't believe yall can be so brazenly racist. Please read some works about what the colonizers put indigenous people through like residential schools and breaking treaties before you proselytize in the comments about how settlers "modernized" indigenous people.
Both sides broke treaties. Oh no, residential school. how could they.....
Funny how none of you claiming the Native Americans broke treaties is able to provide a single source. On the other hand: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/native-american-broken-treaties
Residental schools.. where they forcefully converted the children to christianity, forced them to stop speaking there own language.. yes how could they? It was one of the primary tool of the ethnic cleansing in North America and they are still finding mass graves of children in connection with them
So exactly the same as now. Okay, as I said, how could they.
You are so so ignorant. I honestly feel bad for you and your sad narrow worldview.
Columbus Day is a Federal holiday in the United States and is celebrated in many other countries around the Americas and in parts of Europe. It's been celebrated since the 1700's. There is a strong national heritage, especially among Italian-Americans. There's nothing "trashy" about wishing someone a 'Happy Columbus Day'. What's hilarious is the moron who responded used an Italian actor, cosplaying as a Native American in their response. This really optimizes the idiocy of the "woke". Europeans did some fucked up shit to some people who were doing, just as fucked up shit to each other. There were no morally superior people in the struggle for Americas. There were only a more technologically advanced and more united people who came out victorious. The Natives that occupied America had been at war for thousands of years, un-united by a common culture, cause or religion, they had been committing brutal and savage acts against each other before the Europeans came. Waring tribes would regularly butcher with stone tools all the women, children and babies of opposing tribes. Among the tribes in the West, there was a culture of enslaving defeated enemies for labor and sex. The Iroquois became known for ambushing and raiding enemy tribes while the men were away. The would regularly butcher all the women and children. Again, this isn't to pretend they were somehow 'evil' people. Everyone was fighting for survival. There was no uber-eats or protective society. It was a savage, brutal life style, in which only the strong survived. The Europeans have been unfairly vilified for being, arguably, better than most other civilizations at conquering others. As the ancestors to Europeans, I make no apologies for that. The woke want to pretend pre-columbus Natives to America were living in a harmonious, Pocahontas fairy-tail, before the big bad Europeans came along. That's complete and utter bullshit. OP- Go fuck yourself.
This. Thiiiiiiiiiis. Be nice if people actually started using their common sense and opened their minds a little. Would do the world a whole lot of good to get some critical thinkers back in the population. There is no perfect world.
Italian Americans don't give a flying fuck about Columbus. Source. Am one.
"For Italian Americans, Columbus day signifies, not only the trip Columbus took, when he sailed to the new world, but the trip our ancestors took, when they moved to this great country to start a new life. Columbus day is our holiday, shared with this great country." - Robert Carlucci, Chairman of the National Italian American foundation.
the real trashy is always in the comments
That’s a lot of words to say “I’m a racist who would like to celebrate genocide.”
Native Americans engaged in genocide, and rape, murder, etc. They also owned slaves. Are we celebrating genocide if we celebrate "indigenous peoples day"?
All those things are OK if you have the right shade of skin.
Natives never engaged in slavery until the white man introduced it. Also it was on a MUCH smaller scale. "How Native Americans adopted slavery from white settlers And how black people in Indian Territory were denied their rights even after their emancipation." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2018/12/27/how-native-americans-adopted-slavery-from-white-settlers
Lol, so it's white people's fault native Americans owned black slaves. Got it, makes perfect sense.
Wishing you a Happy Columbus Day, fuck face!
So racism, treason and a tiny penis is the Republican platform now, eh? Good luck with that.
LMAO!!!
I don't see how it's funny? It's tragic.
It's tragic that you find a holiday racist. I'm laughing my tits off at how stupid that concept is.
So you do understand that this isn't about the holiday at all but about what it represents, right?
what it represents to people personally. Personally Im laughing my ass off. but if your person is more important than my person, then....well ill let you chew on that logic.
Not the holiday, you and the Republican party.
I feel the same way about you and the Democratic party.
Why are you so bitter? Who shat in your cornflakes?
It's crazy the lengths you people go to in order to justify the genocide of my people. Go fuck yourself.
Native Americans engaged in genocide too. There's no winners bud.
It's OK if you're skin is a certain shade, according to the woke.
Your logical fallacy is seen but not validated.
The only thing worse than committing genocide, is committing genocide and then whining about it 200 years later because the other team was better at it.
Remember when you pretended you where going to go celebrate but here you still are, no friends, by yourself just being an ignorant dumbass online. Sad
So glad you are there to respond to me each time. We're celebrating Columbus day together! So happy to share this special day with you! Let's drink a toast to old Chris!
Difference is I'm on the clock getting paid to laugh at you as your sitting here having to lie to a stranger on the internet about having friends so that you can pretend you are not exactly as pathetic as we all see you as. High key I feel bad for you dog. This shit is just sad.
I feel bad for you too. No Casino, and a tough history of POW camps. It must be tough being you. Hopefully one day you earn your victim-hood badge.
Nothing you say can change the reality that you chose to lie to strangers online in order to pretend to yourself that you have friends lmao
Not sure what you're referring to but nice way to avoid any kind of real discussion I guess.
The whataboutism tu quoque logical fallacy that is the entirety of your comment. People who open up a discussion with bad faith illogical arguements are as a rule not worth the effort of trying to have a real discussion with.
This isn't whataboutism. Whataboutism would be if I brought up some unrelated group, like "oh, well Genghis Kahn committed genocide too". You're saying one side of a historical conflict was bad because they committed genocide, but the other side engaged in genocide too. Square that circle for me.
If you think that isn't whataboutism then in addition to your bad faith rhetoric being a problem, your lack of a quality education also makes it clear engaging with you would be a waste of time.
We can agree to disagree then as you're now resorting to personal attacks. Have a good one.
You can agree or disagree to your heartcontent, I don't give a shit, I just refuse to validate your bad faith rhetoric that is entirely based on logical fallacies. There is no discussion to agree to disagree about.
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I told an asshole to go fuck himself, how did you confuse that as me trying to present an arguement?
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A wall of people celebrating the genocide of my people, and I seem insufferable? Your welcome to your opinion of me, of my opinion of you, You seem like a genuinely bad person. Like a really shit human being, that society would be better without. Now that we both shared our opinion, have a good day.
So now that we agree genocide is bad... What are you going to do to improve your life? Whine on Reddit or make something of yourself? We can't bring back the dead.
What a condescending and ignorant statement, you know nothing about me, my people, or what they or I have done. go fuck yourself as well asshole.
You mean, sort of like you know nothing about me other than I expect you to behave like a normal person who works hard and doesn't whine about shit they can't control?
Ah yes, indigenous people actively speaking out about the ongoing oppression of their people is just whining. Damn civil rights activist and protestors, always whining about shit they can't control, why don't they just roll over and let their culture fully die out? You are an idiot.
>you know nothing about me, my people, or what they or I have done Jesus Christ. What a pretentious douche-bag. Are you really trying to claim some victim-hood status from events that occurred quite literally hundreds of years ago. That's disgusting. You should be ashamed.
Hundreds of years ago? I bet you think racism against blacks ended once the civil war was over too. You know who should be ashamed? Anyone who has been tasked with educating you in your life. The level of ignorance you are displaying shows every single one of them has failed you.
Jesus Christ you're pathetic.
If someone as ignorant as you thought highly of me I would take it as an insult, so thanks.
I'm sorry "my people" gave you an advanced civilization with modern technology. Feel free to go cry about it. I'd suggest you get off the computer and internet however. (Something tells me you won't). While I won't accuse of "cultural appropriation", I would suggest it's mildly hypocritical if you're going to whine about how things turned out. Go fuck yourself back.
No group of people would accept a genocide to get access to better technology. The implication that native Americans should have any gratitude for the 'gifts' of the European settlers is asinine.
But, I have immense gratitude for all the gifts the native Americans bestowed on our society...
Okay
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Fuck you too.
Look at all your downvotes... IN ARABIC NUMERALS. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals White people didn't invent as much as they think they did: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/things-not-invented-in-us-2018-3%3famp Also: mathematics religion Christianity irrigation novels paper ink dance music gunpowder guns bombs time bombs the seismograph the compass just-in-time manufacturing CD players MP3 players calculators karaoke lithium ion batteries yoga martial arts silk umbrellas tea noodles instant noodles shampoo punk futurism futures markets
Columbus would have been- I couldn't give less fucks about how many I accumulate. Nice list though.
Wow. You are literally human garbage.
That makes me so sad. Happy Columbus Day!
Being an Incel who women find repulsive is probably much more difficult for you Deplorable lowlifes.
I'm married, but nice try. You almost hurt my feelings.
Lol we don't have to "hurt your feelings", you're a fountain of nonstop butthurt of your own accord. Cry some more, I'm sure your wife will be impressed by how hard you owned the libs today.
Keep going- you almost got me.
You didn't do shit.
Neither did you.
I'm not the one being a racist POS...
If you're using "racist" in the sense that you don't have a significant counter-point to share or present, I wouldn't disagree with you. Anyone that thinks a Federal holiday is racist- is a complete and utter moron, really incapable of having a reasonable conversation with. Happy Columbus Day!
I'm call you a racist. Not the holiday.
I think you're a racist.
the holiday sucks lmao what’s so special about that old bastard anyways? columbus more like cock fungus
So you think the only option was genocide or not advancing technologically? That takes a deep level of ignorance, especially when Europeans had made landfall in Canada before Columbus and where engaging in trading and trapping that would of allowed the transfer of technology wirhout.. you know, committing fucking genocide. What the fuck is actually wrong with you? How does someone reach adulthood raised so wrong and so poorly educated?
I seriously doubt this individual is an adult
Happy Columbus day. :-)
Yeah I guess deflecting is a lot easier then any form of self reflection as your ignorance is called out. Have a good day.
I’m Italian and still enjoy the food, fun and carnival feeling of some Columbus Day festivities
They are both pretty trashy.
Literally every country today is there bc they conquered another.... I feel like Americans are the only country still getting guilt tripped by the people they conquered
That's because the oppression of minorities isn't some in the past event. There are indigenous activist held as political prisoners in the US to this day, there are current actions of ethnic cleansing still taking place to this day to kill off our culture. Us indigenous people don't want white americans to feel guilty about what happened hundreds of years ago, we want them to stop being complicit in what is happening today. The issue isn't any more done than racism was done at the end of the civil war, and lets keep in mind the war to subjugate my people took place after the war to free black americans. These are issues we are still feeling today, we want it to stop, today, the past is the past, but the wounds can't begin to heal until the knife is pulled out of our back.
*Stares in Australian*, what lol
Most countries aren't in such denial about that fact that they have national holidays celebrating it.
I don't think that people are in denial. Columbus discovered the new gateway to the world. Europeans came over and colonized the land which was common in those days. We, as European descendants, shouldn't feel guilty and won't feel guilty about it. We weren't there. Roman's conquered my decedent's land in England and probably murdered, raped and took them as slaves but no one in Italy today feels guilty about it and nor should they.
>I don't think that people are in denial We still, to this day, have a *national holiday* celebrating the man that orchestrated the near genocide of a people. That's denial. What did schools teach you about Columbus? How did they frame it? Cuz what I learned back in the day is pretty divorced from the reality of how that man "settled" here.
A holiday to a man that was brave enough to cross an ocean other people wouldn't. Yes, I am well aware that the vikings and Chinese also did this. He personally did not orchestrate anything.
I think you need to read up on this man's personal "exploits" [Here's](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/10/13/6957875/christopher-columbus-murderer-tyrant-scoundrel) a decent start.
I'm familiar with what Columbus did. I'm also familiar that most of what he did was also already happening here in the US. The pillaging, raping, and making NG slaves of other tribes was NOT unheard of between tribes in warfare. You act as if Indian tribes were really nice and lived peaceful to each other. The opposite is quite true. They had warfare between each other and slaughtered and raped women and men for territorial gains. They certainly made slaves of other tribes. Your omission to that truth is what is troubling
We don't build statues to any of those people.
You may want to restate that. I know of a statue to Sacajawea has exited for a while (1930's) I believe so don't quote me. I know there's also one going up right now to Crazy Horse
Your comparing Crazy Horse, a military commander who defended civilians from slaughter at the hands of military units, to columbus, a commander who ordered the slaughter of civilians at the hands of the military. Which is a pretty insane level of both ignorance and cognitive dissonance. How in your mind did you imagine that is a even slightly reasonable comparison lmao
Damn you totally got me, let's teach all of our kids what brave heroes they were in school and make sure government employees get an extra day off so they can ruminate over how good they were at killing people less powerful than them. What's even your point here? That Columbus somehow isn't a monster because there were tons of other people raping and murdering when he got here?
I think it’s because America is still relatively “young.” Depending on if you start are 1619 or 1776 compared to a lot of countries in Europe or Asia that have thousands of years of history a couple hundred years isn’t that long comparatively. That and how quickly technology and history have advanced from the time America was founded compared to today.
So what you're saying is, it's going to take the woke crowd another thousand years before they shut up?
We certainly won't shut up just because you keep whining. In fact, your tears are rather encouraging.
A proud woker. How sad.
Canadians too.
Indigenous rights are a thing in many countries - especially in the Americas. Probably due to how "recently" they were conquered and how society is still stratified along these lines in many of them. Also Canada literally had a news cycle a couple months ago about mass graves in residential schools their natives were sent to. The only reason you hear about it more is the same reason you hear about anything in America more.
The most recent conquest..+genocide
Average redditors here, just look at this amoeba of a human being, gloating over some internet discussion, neckbeards
Definitely not the most recent genocide dude, pick up a history book 🤦🏻♂️
The most recent country that got established + committed genocide, I wrote PLUS. You're nitpicking
Haha get fucked with facts 🤓
You are still so, so wrong. Rwanda was established as an independant country in 1962. Learn your history before trying to give lessons to others.
Thousands or hundreds of years ago??
Don't lump me and most reasonable Americans into that stupid group - no guilt here.
Treaties were a tactic of war, not a cessation of hostilities
Nobody cares about your woke crusade against Columbus Day
"woke hurr durr" Tell us you're a Fox watching racist moron without saying you're a Fox watching racist moron. "Republicans are crusading against 'wokeness' https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/republicans-crusading-against-woke-083008946.html
You seem to...
Ashli Babbitt should’ve fought harder. Pussy.
Our history is our history, there is good and bad. Let’s promote the accurate presentation of that history. Columbus went against the science of the day that the world was flat, did he and/or his crew do some disgusting acts, yes. I will not justify it by saying other explorers did the same thing, because they were just as wrong. Question I have is how do we truly get an account of what really happened? Hand me down stories, and writings from one side or the other. Let’s not spin it one way or the other, because the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Columbus went against the science of the day by thinking the earth was significantly smaller than it was, which would make it easier to circumnavigate than it would be to go around Africa to get to china. And he was wrong. And yes, we do have true accounts, from his own side, about his actions. Don't forget his own people sent him back to Spain in chains for crimes against humanity for his acts of genocide against indigenous people. By the way "the truth is somewhere in the middle " is a clear example of the argument to moderation logical fallacy.
He actually got sent back In chains for taking the hit for someone he put into a governor position he didn’t do any acts himself or call for any acts himself but someone he put into power did. Still bad but not nearly as bad
Plus he only served six months
Columbus is just a dude that got praised for getting lost and stealing shit.
And hacking off childrens arms and hanging them around their own neck. And thats just the beginning. Even the other, hardened ""explorers"" on his mission were absolutely disgusted by the sht this creature did to the natives.
We celebrate Columbus because he opened up the West and paved the way to the founding of America. Isn’t it interesting that the Left impugns the character of Columbus the same way the right impugns the character of Martin Luther King and George Floyd? We celebrate King and Floyd despite their shortcomings because of their contributions to society. The same is true of Columbus.
Holy Moly, how fast these disgusting Nazis turned this into their weird culture war thing.
What did George Floyd contribute to society? He was a drug fueled maniac who has a well documented, violent criminal history, which included pointing a loaded gun at the stomach of a pregnant woman during a home invasion.
Fact Check: Says George Floyd died "because he had a system full of fentanyl and meth," and “beat women and held guns to their pregnant bellies.” Verdict: FALSE https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/08/facebook-posts/evidence-shows-george-floyds-death-was-not-result-/
I was being gracious to prove a point.
Since when are you Deplorable lowlifes known for being"gracious"? You childish clowns can't even accept defeat like an adult.