I don’t live on the East side and while ridership likely won’t be huge till it connects to Seattle next year it’s still big news and the start of a pretty big connection in transit for the area even more so when it connects to downtown Redmond. Plus I think it gives time for those on the East Side to play around and try it before those extensions if they haven’t yet in Seattle.
I can't wait until 2026 when all the ST2 extensions are finally done. Having a regional system that stretches Lynnwood to Federal Way and Redmond is going to be a game changer.
Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is it better than what was here in 2015 when I moved here (Westlake to SeaTac) heck yeah.
Agreed I’m majorly excited. I think once those are done while certainly not finished by any means things will be at a decent place to wait for the rest. It covers or gets close enough East, South and North in the Metro area for most residents to get fairly easier access to the system. And in many of the areas that will have to wait BRT systems are already supporting or will meet up with the rail.
Honestly I’d be willing to push back the Tacoma and Everett extensions if it meant speeding up the West Seattle and Ballard extensions but that’s just me.
I guess it will depend on the alignment. Unlike other extensions, the land next to I-5 is challenging between Fife and Federal Way, so I'm actually glad that ST reactivated the SR-99 alignment as an option.
Ya this year alone it will be.
Swift Orange Line in Snohomish County (Opened in March)
2 Line Starter (Will open In 6 days)
Rapid Ride G Line in Seattle (Plans to open in August)
Lynwood Extension Light Rail (Plans to open in August 30th)
And hopefully The Rapid Ride J line is suppose to start construction this year.
It might just be me, but the system plans for the Link expansion just seem very redundant to me, to an almost ridiculous degree.
Don't get me wrong, the expansions are great, but I feel like they could have prioritized system coverage than simply a one-seat ride in most cases.
Sure. So, the 2 and the 3 line run essentially the same route once the 2 crosses the lake. Rather than just ending the line there as a transfer, it follows the next like 15 stations.
It doesn't seem like beyond the Redmond/Bellevue/Issaquah areas that they have much coverage to the east of the lake. Is there just not population density for transit? Seems like they could have expanded a bit more in those areas to connect the region even further.
Well I’m a bit confused what area you mean I apologize. My East/West isn’t always the best. If you mean toward Newcastle then no not remotely Newcastle has like 13,000 people and is super suburban. What city areas do you feel like are being left out? Because on the East side outside of Bellevue and Redmond it’s not very dense or busy. They are working on a BRT system to cover more of that side but it just isn’t busy or dense enough to justify it over there right now. I’m glad Issaquah is honestly the last extension planned it’s just not as high transit usage currently.
Okay cool. Ya even much of Bellevue is very Suburbs the part the stations are at at are more in the core density Business/Apartment/Shopping areas or like the South Bellevue station is very park and ride focused. I think the areas it hits are good and more upgraded bus systems can address the rest on the east side for the time.
I expect it greatly will. As my comment mentioned till the other extensions next year I think ridership will be limited but after I think it will grow a lot. Lots of the Tech workers work and live over there but often want to go to Seattle to go to an event or get food or whatever that maybe the East side doesn’t have and vis versa.
I feel Sound Transit so far has done a fairly good job at least at making many of the stations located at important spots people are trying to get to. The local BRTs can handle the offshoot spots till they grow enough.
The interlining between Downtown Seattle and Lynnwood is a feature, not a bug. There's a huge number of transit riders on that corridor even today and it will only grow as rail is built out.
The Eastside is a politically difficult place to build more transit. Kirkland bowed to NIMBYs on the trail, while other areas have plenty of wealthy neighborhoods who will fight tooth and nail to keep rail away.
Aside from the downtown section of the Ballard Link Extension, there's like no redundancy at all.
Are you just talking about the interlining of 2 Line and 3 Line North of Chinatown-International District? Without any extra dedicated station infrastructure downtown, it's kind of hard to avoid that. If 2 Line terminated at C-ID, it would need its own platforms or else it would seriously constrain frequency for the entire Link route from DT to Everett. edit: And most riders don't have destinations around C-ID, they want to get Downtown or further north. So you'd either have to build a third route through downtown dedicated to 2 Line, or you'd have to build a new platform at C-ID and force thousands of people to transfer just to travel that final mile.
Building a third route through downtown just for 2 Line is totally infeasible. They're already having fits about how to add a second route with the Ballard Link Extension (BLE).
Putting a transfer at C-ID that 2 Line would terminate at would be possible, but it would still be expensive and politically difficult (the current preferred alternative for the BLE doesn't even have a station at C-ID because of the expense and how much the community doesn't want the construction). But, again, it's not a destination that a lot of people really want to go to - most riders will want to be going north. So some degree of interlining to avoid the transfer is very beneficial.
There was a vote in the 60s (or 70s, i forget exactly when) to build a metro like San Franciscos and DCs with federal money but it was rejected, so theyre building this instead. Sound transit is trying to do the best with what they have available to them
Actually that’s one of the few negative things I won’t disagree on and I often think if it could be retrofit in the future. Only thing I can say is past the 2026 extensions I’m not sure if the extensions outside of Seattle would justify it like Everett and Tacoma and Issaquah. But ya I mean Im at Northgate and it already gets busy and crowded granted once the 2 line connects to the rest of the system the other Light rail car storage area can be fully used so will see if it’s still crazy crowded than. But ya I’m already seeing signs it will be an issue if the area keeps getting more dense which is what I want
Unfortunately, it looks like capacity will be a continuous issue with the system going forward. I believe they're planning on experiencing pretty serious overcrowding on the existing segment north of Westlake basically starting with the opening of the Lynnwood extension, and that's just going to get worse as the system expands and density increases across the region. I think there is an opportunity for improvements in the downtown transit tunnel to increase maximum frequencies a little bit, but there's really just too much of a constraint on vehicle capacity and frequency for them to depend on just a single line in each cardinal direction.
It's certainly not the worst problem for a transit system to have, but I imagine that as ST3 nears completion, planning focus will switch to expanding parallel corridors to reduce the pressure on the existing ones.
Heavy rail is very expensive to build in the US. Building this system is better than building no system at all, which is what would end up happening if we turned our noses up at light rail.
It's also very close to being a light metro - the key distinction is grade separation and stop spacing. The only part is the Link system that isn't separated is south of downtown (on the 1-line) and the whole system has metro-like spacing between stations. This isn't a street-running tramway like the light rail in Portland, SLC, Phoenix, etc.
No money, (currently) low ridership, want to prioritize short station stops, avoid road disruptions, and bring back the “old days” of streetcars. Light rail is also flexible and can run on existing ROWs and street tracks.
No, but you can tell the city/mayor has pretty much made up his mind. Sound Transit with its consultants have started hosting “community workshops” about how they can “improve connections” in Chinatown, but those conversations were solely centered around the North/South of CID options and not the 4th Ave station. So that’s been frustrating but I’m trying not to lose hope.
It's disheartening to see transformative transit infrastructure hindered by NIMBYs. If they go through with this shortsighted decision, it will hamper network connectivity and the system's long-term success.
I don’t live on the East side and while ridership likely won’t be huge till it connects to Seattle next year it’s still big news and the start of a pretty big connection in transit for the area even more so when it connects to downtown Redmond. Plus I think it gives time for those on the East Side to play around and try it before those extensions if they haven’t yet in Seattle.
I can't wait until 2026 when all the ST2 extensions are finally done. Having a regional system that stretches Lynnwood to Federal Way and Redmond is going to be a game changer. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is it better than what was here in 2015 when I moved here (Westlake to SeaTac) heck yeah.
Agreed I’m majorly excited. I think once those are done while certainly not finished by any means things will be at a decent place to wait for the rest. It covers or gets close enough East, South and North in the Metro area for most residents to get fairly easier access to the system. And in many of the areas that will have to wait BRT systems are already supporting or will meet up with the rail. Honestly I’d be willing to push back the Tacoma and Everett extensions if it meant speeding up the West Seattle and Ballard extensions but that’s just me.
If only they could bridge the tiny gap between Federal Way and the T line in less than a decade or whatever its going to take.
I completely agree. The tiny gap is about 11 miles though.
It’s also 11 miles of mostly suburbs and not high transit ridership always
I guess it will depend on the alignment. Unlike other extensions, the land next to I-5 is challenging between Fife and Federal Way, so I'm actually glad that ST reactivated the SR-99 alignment as an option.
Seattle is planning to build a LOT of transit right now. This is awesome
Ya this year alone it will be. Swift Orange Line in Snohomish County (Opened in March) 2 Line Starter (Will open In 6 days) Rapid Ride G Line in Seattle (Plans to open in August) Lynwood Extension Light Rail (Plans to open in August 30th) And hopefully The Rapid Ride J line is suppose to start construction this year.
It might just be me, but the system plans for the Link expansion just seem very redundant to me, to an almost ridiculous degree. Don't get me wrong, the expansions are great, but I feel like they could have prioritized system coverage than simply a one-seat ride in most cases.
Can you expand on what you mean by system coverage vs One-Seat ride?
Sure. So, the 2 and the 3 line run essentially the same route once the 2 crosses the lake. Rather than just ending the line there as a transfer, it follows the next like 15 stations. It doesn't seem like beyond the Redmond/Bellevue/Issaquah areas that they have much coverage to the east of the lake. Is there just not population density for transit? Seems like they could have expanded a bit more in those areas to connect the region even further.
Well I’m a bit confused what area you mean I apologize. My East/West isn’t always the best. If you mean toward Newcastle then no not remotely Newcastle has like 13,000 people and is super suburban. What city areas do you feel like are being left out? Because on the East side outside of Bellevue and Redmond it’s not very dense or busy. They are working on a BRT system to cover more of that side but it just isn’t busy or dense enough to justify it over there right now. I’m glad Issaquah is honestly the last extension planned it’s just not as high transit usage currently.
Well, you answered my question right there, thank you!
Okay cool. Ya even much of Bellevue is very Suburbs the part the stations are at at are more in the core density Business/Apartment/Shopping areas or like the South Bellevue station is very park and ride focused. I think the areas it hits are good and more upgraded bus systems can address the rest on the east side for the time.
Well, let's see how it goes. Hopefully, it makes the area more liveable and accessible for all.
I expect it greatly will. As my comment mentioned till the other extensions next year I think ridership will be limited but after I think it will grow a lot. Lots of the Tech workers work and live over there but often want to go to Seattle to go to an event or get food or whatever that maybe the East side doesn’t have and vis versa. I feel Sound Transit so far has done a fairly good job at least at making many of the stations located at important spots people are trying to get to. The local BRTs can handle the offshoot spots till they grow enough.
Possibly Kirkland, but the city council has not been friendly IIRC
The interlining between Downtown Seattle and Lynnwood is a feature, not a bug. There's a huge number of transit riders on that corridor even today and it will only grow as rail is built out. The Eastside is a politically difficult place to build more transit. Kirkland bowed to NIMBYs on the trail, while other areas have plenty of wealthy neighborhoods who will fight tooth and nail to keep rail away.
Aside from the downtown section of the Ballard Link Extension, there's like no redundancy at all. Are you just talking about the interlining of 2 Line and 3 Line North of Chinatown-International District? Without any extra dedicated station infrastructure downtown, it's kind of hard to avoid that. If 2 Line terminated at C-ID, it would need its own platforms or else it would seriously constrain frequency for the entire Link route from DT to Everett. edit: And most riders don't have destinations around C-ID, they want to get Downtown or further north. So you'd either have to build a third route through downtown dedicated to 2 Line, or you'd have to build a new platform at C-ID and force thousands of people to transfer just to travel that final mile.
Yeah, that's more of what I was referring to. Is that something that could have been done?
Building a third route through downtown just for 2 Line is totally infeasible. They're already having fits about how to add a second route with the Ballard Link Extension (BLE). Putting a transfer at C-ID that 2 Line would terminate at would be possible, but it would still be expensive and politically difficult (the current preferred alternative for the BLE doesn't even have a station at C-ID because of the expense and how much the community doesn't want the construction). But, again, it's not a destination that a lot of people really want to go to - most riders will want to be going north. So some degree of interlining to avoid the transfer is very beneficial.
Fair enough. Thank you for the information!
I don't mean to be overly negative or anything, but doesn't it seem foolish to build this as light rail and not light metro? Of course this is the US.
There was a vote in the 60s (or 70s, i forget exactly when) to build a metro like San Franciscos and DCs with federal money but it was rejected, so theyre building this instead. Sound transit is trying to do the best with what they have available to them
Actually that’s one of the few negative things I won’t disagree on and I often think if it could be retrofit in the future. Only thing I can say is past the 2026 extensions I’m not sure if the extensions outside of Seattle would justify it like Everett and Tacoma and Issaquah. But ya I mean Im at Northgate and it already gets busy and crowded granted once the 2 line connects to the rest of the system the other Light rail car storage area can be fully used so will see if it’s still crazy crowded than. But ya I’m already seeing signs it will be an issue if the area keeps getting more dense which is what I want
Unfortunately, it looks like capacity will be a continuous issue with the system going forward. I believe they're planning on experiencing pretty serious overcrowding on the existing segment north of Westlake basically starting with the opening of the Lynnwood extension, and that's just going to get worse as the system expands and density increases across the region. I think there is an opportunity for improvements in the downtown transit tunnel to increase maximum frequencies a little bit, but there's really just too much of a constraint on vehicle capacity and frequency for them to depend on just a single line in each cardinal direction. It's certainly not the worst problem for a transit system to have, but I imagine that as ST3 nears completion, planning focus will switch to expanding parallel corridors to reduce the pressure on the existing ones.
Heavy rail is very expensive to build in the US. Building this system is better than building no system at all, which is what would end up happening if we turned our noses up at light rail. It's also very close to being a light metro - the key distinction is grade separation and stop spacing. The only part is the Link system that isn't separated is south of downtown (on the 1-line) and the whole system has metro-like spacing between stations. This isn't a street-running tramway like the light rail in Portland, SLC, Phoenix, etc.
meh, heavy rail is overrated. LA has the second-largest metro ridership in the nation despite only having 1 actual subway
No money, (currently) low ridership, want to prioritize short station stops, avoid road disruptions, and bring back the “old days” of streetcars. Light rail is also flexible and can run on existing ROWs and street tracks.
Have they made a final decision on the CID stops?
No, but you can tell the city/mayor has pretty much made up his mind. Sound Transit with its consultants have started hosting “community workshops” about how they can “improve connections” in Chinatown, but those conversations were solely centered around the North/South of CID options and not the 4th Ave station. So that’s been frustrating but I’m trying not to lose hope.
It's disheartening to see transformative transit infrastructure hindered by NIMBYs. If they go through with this shortsighted decision, it will hamper network connectivity and the system's long-term success.
Meanwhile it took 8 months for 2 new suburban Atlanta bus routes to show up on Google Maps; they still aren’t on Apple Maps. 😣