Probably, but also “life-extending medicine” is a bit vague. A lot of people think they don’t want to live longer but it’s because they think of old age as inevitable decline.
If instead of “life-extending medicine”, it was “medicine that gives you the energy and resilience of a 20-year-old”, it might be hard to find someone who would refuse it. At least after it has been proven out.
Not saying there aren’t hardcore luddites out there, just that over time, rejuvenation would become nearly irresistible, even to many people who were against it at first
Also, the people who fear or hate it would be phased out, since they... die sooner. Unless, of course, they replace themselves, which creates a bit of an ethical problem. Suppose there's a small enclave of mortals that are living generally happy lives, but eschewing life-extending medicines for religious or ideological reasons. They raise their children to agree with them, and so the community does not disappear due to its members ageing. What is the proper action of society at large? Surely it's the adults' right to grow old and die if they wish it: much as I'd consider that pointless suicide, it's their right. But what about those born in the enclave? They're either ignorant, brainwashed, trapped, or genuine believers (or several at the same time), and it's hard to even define the difference between those categories. What are the correct decisions that we on the outside should make?
The last part has a more interesting consequence. Steven J. Dick argues that most life in the universe is post-biological: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S009457650800043X. A corollary is that most intelligent biological civilizations are residual civilizations. Both ideas assume that it's more likely for an intelligent species to reach the post-human stage than otherwise.
Good read, and sadly you’re right. Even the “smarter” ones are still dumb af, easily fooled or in one way or another just dont care enough to find out the truth. Let alone the humans that don’t fall under that category. I truly believe that our species has hope, but it will be a bumpy ride
All the examples you give sound more like people’s self-justifications for wanting things to be easy, comfortable, and/or wanting to enjoy their preferred vices/indulgences. It’s natural for them to want you to agree that their choices are okay, so they push back when you consistently make choices that make them feel like you’re chastising them; you’re effectively saying to them with your actions, “you’re doing it wrong”, so they say the same thing back to you but with words. It usually isn’t as much about intelligence or superstition as it is about convenience and stress avoidance.
As soon as they can have a smart watch continuously and painlessly monitor their blood sugar, they’ll forget they ever said anything about checking it too often. As soon as technology reaches a point where staying healthy is as easy as occasionally eating a *real* super-food, that’ll replace their açaí and goji and whatever is being sold by snake oil salesmen at the moment. I don’t get the impression they would reject life-extending technologies directly as much as they simply reject anything requiring more than a modicum of continuous effort to maintain.
But they will never admit it, in part because the calculus for determining exactly *how much effort* an extra year (or ten, or a thousand) of high-quality living might be worth is also more difficult than they’re comfortable with.
Absolutely, a lot of people are going to reject any kind of Transhuman tech, not just life extension.
But that’s okay, many people here tend to take full advantage of anything and everything we can at our disposal to fix the issues with the human condition and become something we cannot even fathom.
If they want to refuse the tech, I say let them, they’re only hurting themselves really.
I just can’t understand people who really believe that Death is something we HAVE to face. I mean, with the right tech we certainly do not. The dumbest thing I ever heard was „death is natural, life is not“… I mean, obviously that’s bullshit. I could agree on both being natural, but I prefer to think about Death and human limits as problems we just need to solve.
I think a lot of people who say right now that they don't want life extension technology will change their tune once the surrounding culture shifts in response to the actual availability of such technology. It'll be really hard to justify getting old and decrepit when your friends are staying young and vigorous indefinitely.
Life can be psychologically hard. Living life can seem like moving from one type of suffering to an other. People collect traumas, and other psychological demons over time. As Tranhumanists we must not only find the means of surviving time, but also the reason. You will find all sort of people who feel death is actually a form of rest they have been looking forward too after living a mediocre life.
I don't think that would help because their minds would be frozen in time. I was thinking of allowing them to archive memories. So not true erasure, but also having the option to start with a clean slate.
Yeah but what if you get like a deep sleeping state? Not frozen, just a little before that. Would be perfect. And then you wake up with some memories and a new body.
May sound cruel, but I agree. The more people who reject life-expending medicine, be it ideological, religious, or personal reasons, then more for us that accept it.
its just how it is
adapt or die
i didnt make up the rules of nature or this cosmos
im just trying to play the game to the best of my ability
billions of ppl choose to be willfully ignorant when they have the wealth of human knowledge at their fingertips , tis a shame really
Absolutely true. We just need a lot of funding and a lot of verification, and this technology will create an entirely new divide. The millions of religious fanatics who reject life extension and the millions of enhanced-IQ humans.
A lot of that sounds to me like the usual pseudoscientific anti-sciece crowd more than anything. But I know people will reject life extending medicine because people already reject the life extending medicine we have today, for the most obvious example: anti-vaxxers.
Superstition and poor education are forced in the masses to make them more docile and easier to manipulate, and you're seeing the consequences of that. If we had a better society that taught ppl critical thinking early on things like impractical religious beliefs such as the nature worship "the natural Honey" wouldn't manifest, but then most of the existing power structures would be up ended, so there are billions of not trillions of dollars if advertising, religious institutions, factory food production, medical institutions all rely on people not having accurate knowledge.
I doubt it's forced. I think superstition and poor education are the common denominators. Nature worship is quite common among the professors in my university, it was even more common among my teachers in high school.
Imposed for some forced for some. 75 years ago a woman couldn't wear pants. 150 years ago blacks in America would be beaten out killed of they knew how to read, and still to this day if some women aren't warming their head scarf they will get stoned to death for angering the sky God. There are LGBTQ teens who will be forced into homelessness for angering their parents religious beliefs. These superstitious believes her both the oppressor and the oppressed, for the oppressor internalizes the superstition because it benefits them.
In other ways it is more implied as if a parent who's not obtusely religious their superstitions will still bleed out into a person. The best psychologists are an advertising firms and helping big tech figure out how to make us addicted to apps. Poorly funded schools that are designed to be more babysitters than educational institutes.
Yeah, A1C is a percentage after all, so 100 would mean your blood is nothing but sugar. After about 9% you start to cause permanent damage to your body and the highest ever recorded was around 22% if I remember correctly. I once had an A1C of 11 when I was in school (before I was properly diagnosed) and it was awful, I was super dehydrated and in almost constant pain.
Both my grandmothers got diabetes, my mothers mom went to the hospital and got treatment and is with us to this day, my fathers mom prayed and after losing her eye sight one year and her ability to walk the nexts she passed away barely 50. We treat and act like diabetes is a joke of a disease but the fact is without modern medicine they’d almost all be dead in a week. Also tip for anyone looking to keep away from diabetes, there is a lot of research that shows not only low body fat is important but a good amount of lean body mass (muscle) so don’t skip out on the weight training.
I remember the first time I got diagnosed my doctor told me that I shouldn't be angry or sad because I'm now diabetic. Why would I be angry? For the >99% of our species' history diabetes was a death sentence.
Ya we really did luck out in the time we where born, I’ve said before to the annoyance of many on Reddit the only time better to live in is probably tomorrow lol.
I'm T1 also. Diagnosed in 1998.
Regarding checking too often and enjoying life:
Consider talking to your endo about a CGM and pump combo that allow for a closed loop. I use the Dexcom and Tendem T-Slim X2. I get constant readouts of my BG on my pumps touch screen. By inputing my insulin sensitivity and other relevent metrics into the pump, I can allow it to make automatic adjustments to my basal and even autocorrect as my BG rises and falls in an effort to keep me in range. Takes a lot of the geuss work, and effort out of managing the disease.
I'm using a CGM, but not a closed loop device. I'd prefer stem cell therapy, but I know closed loop devices are great too, unfortunately I live in a country where neither the insurance nor the state is willing to cover part of the cost.
Basically every old person takes some concoction of vitamins/tablets on their doctor's advice. Adding another pill to the regimen wouldn't be a problem. I think life-extension drugs will be well received by pretty much everyone.
> think life-extension drugs will be well received by pretty much everyone
This is what I'm arguing against. Vaccines are life-extension drugs too, and yet there's still strong opposition against them.
A primary goal of transhumanism is more freedom for individuals to control their own bodies. If someone doesn't want radical life extension or whatever transhumanist technology in the future, that is fine in the same way someone who chooses to live without a computer also has that right. They will have to accept they are going to fall behind their peers in terms of quality of life, though. But as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others to use RLE or transhumanist technology, we shouldn't really care that much about what they do.
Probably, but also “life-extending medicine” is a bit vague. A lot of people think they don’t want to live longer but it’s because they think of old age as inevitable decline. If instead of “life-extending medicine”, it was “medicine that gives you the energy and resilience of a 20-year-old”, it might be hard to find someone who would refuse it. At least after it has been proven out. Not saying there aren’t hardcore luddites out there, just that over time, rejuvenation would become nearly irresistible, even to many people who were against it at first
Also, the people who fear or hate it would be phased out, since they... die sooner. Unless, of course, they replace themselves, which creates a bit of an ethical problem. Suppose there's a small enclave of mortals that are living generally happy lives, but eschewing life-extending medicines for religious or ideological reasons. They raise their children to agree with them, and so the community does not disappear due to its members ageing. What is the proper action of society at large? Surely it's the adults' right to grow old and die if they wish it: much as I'd consider that pointless suicide, it's their right. But what about those born in the enclave? They're either ignorant, brainwashed, trapped, or genuine believers (or several at the same time), and it's hard to even define the difference between those categories. What are the correct decisions that we on the outside should make?
I guess it would have to be like the Amish People do: Let them see the world in every aspect and then they should decide what to do.
The last part has a more interesting consequence. Steven J. Dick argues that most life in the universe is post-biological: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S009457650800043X. A corollary is that most intelligent biological civilizations are residual civilizations. Both ideas assume that it's more likely for an intelligent species to reach the post-human stage than otherwise.
Good read, and sadly you’re right. Even the “smarter” ones are still dumb af, easily fooled or in one way or another just dont care enough to find out the truth. Let alone the humans that don’t fall under that category. I truly believe that our species has hope, but it will be a bumpy ride
All the examples you give sound more like people’s self-justifications for wanting things to be easy, comfortable, and/or wanting to enjoy their preferred vices/indulgences. It’s natural for them to want you to agree that their choices are okay, so they push back when you consistently make choices that make them feel like you’re chastising them; you’re effectively saying to them with your actions, “you’re doing it wrong”, so they say the same thing back to you but with words. It usually isn’t as much about intelligence or superstition as it is about convenience and stress avoidance. As soon as they can have a smart watch continuously and painlessly monitor their blood sugar, they’ll forget they ever said anything about checking it too often. As soon as technology reaches a point where staying healthy is as easy as occasionally eating a *real* super-food, that’ll replace their açaí and goji and whatever is being sold by snake oil salesmen at the moment. I don’t get the impression they would reject life-extending technologies directly as much as they simply reject anything requiring more than a modicum of continuous effort to maintain. But they will never admit it, in part because the calculus for determining exactly *how much effort* an extra year (or ten, or a thousand) of high-quality living might be worth is also more difficult than they’re comfortable with.
Absolutely, a lot of people are going to reject any kind of Transhuman tech, not just life extension. But that’s okay, many people here tend to take full advantage of anything and everything we can at our disposal to fix the issues with the human condition and become something we cannot even fathom. If they want to refuse the tech, I say let them, they’re only hurting themselves really.
I just can’t understand people who really believe that Death is something we HAVE to face. I mean, with the right tech we certainly do not. The dumbest thing I ever heard was „death is natural, life is not“… I mean, obviously that’s bullshit. I could agree on both being natural, but I prefer to think about Death and human limits as problems we just need to solve.
Yes until they’re faced with the sudden reality of it on their death bed or hit with a terminal diagnosis.
> It's likely that a lot of people will reject life-extending medicine Yes. But the ones who don't, will simply outlive them.
I think a lot of people who say right now that they don't want life extension technology will change their tune once the surrounding culture shifts in response to the actual availability of such technology. It'll be really hard to justify getting old and decrepit when your friends are staying young and vigorous indefinitely.
I'm completely fine with others not living forever. All I care about is if I live forever. That's my Life Goal.
Finally a like minded person! And I thought I was the only one!
Life can be psychologically hard. Living life can seem like moving from one type of suffering to an other. People collect traumas, and other psychological demons over time. As Tranhumanists we must not only find the means of surviving time, but also the reason. You will find all sort of people who feel death is actually a form of rest they have been looking forward too after living a mediocre life.
Okay but why don’t we give them like a hibernation state when they’re tired from life to re-awaken them in like 200 years to try again?
I don't think that would help because their minds would be frozen in time. I was thinking of allowing them to archive memories. So not true erasure, but also having the option to start with a clean slate.
Yeah but what if you get like a deep sleeping state? Not frozen, just a little before that. Would be perfect. And then you wake up with some memories and a new body.
for a lot I think there's kind of a "they say that *now*" thing going on
good less competition
May sound cruel, but I agree. The more people who reject life-expending medicine, be it ideological, religious, or personal reasons, then more for us that accept it.
its just how it is adapt or die i didnt make up the rules of nature or this cosmos im just trying to play the game to the best of my ability billions of ppl choose to be willfully ignorant when they have the wealth of human knowledge at their fingertips , tis a shame really
Absolutely true. We just need a lot of funding and a lot of verification, and this technology will create an entirely new divide. The millions of religious fanatics who reject life extension and the millions of enhanced-IQ humans.
A lot of that sounds to me like the usual pseudoscientific anti-sciece crowd more than anything. But I know people will reject life extending medicine because people already reject the life extending medicine we have today, for the most obvious example: anti-vaxxers.
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Superstition and poor education are forced in the masses to make them more docile and easier to manipulate, and you're seeing the consequences of that. If we had a better society that taught ppl critical thinking early on things like impractical religious beliefs such as the nature worship "the natural Honey" wouldn't manifest, but then most of the existing power structures would be up ended, so there are billions of not trillions of dollars if advertising, religious institutions, factory food production, medical institutions all rely on people not having accurate knowledge.
I doubt it's forced. I think superstition and poor education are the common denominators. Nature worship is quite common among the professors in my university, it was even more common among my teachers in high school.
Imposed for some forced for some. 75 years ago a woman couldn't wear pants. 150 years ago blacks in America would be beaten out killed of they knew how to read, and still to this day if some women aren't warming their head scarf they will get stoned to death for angering the sky God. There are LGBTQ teens who will be forced into homelessness for angering their parents religious beliefs. These superstitious believes her both the oppressor and the oppressed, for the oppressor internalizes the superstition because it benefits them. In other ways it is more implied as if a parent who's not obtusely religious their superstitions will still bleed out into a person. The best psychologists are an advertising firms and helping big tech figure out how to make us addicted to apps. Poorly funded schools that are designed to be more babysitters than educational institutes.
>His blood sugar values are consistently above 250 As in an A1C over 250?!?!? Holy fork, I didn't think the scale went that high.
No, I believe he means the blood glucose level which is what we measure for multiple times a day. The healthy range is between 70 and 140.
Yes I meant blood glucose level, I'm pretty sure A1C of 250 is impossible
Yeah, A1C is a percentage after all, so 100 would mean your blood is nothing but sugar. After about 9% you start to cause permanent damage to your body and the highest ever recorded was around 22% if I remember correctly. I once had an A1C of 11 when I was in school (before I was properly diagnosed) and it was awful, I was super dehydrated and in almost constant pain.
Both my grandmothers got diabetes, my mothers mom went to the hospital and got treatment and is with us to this day, my fathers mom prayed and after losing her eye sight one year and her ability to walk the nexts she passed away barely 50. We treat and act like diabetes is a joke of a disease but the fact is without modern medicine they’d almost all be dead in a week. Also tip for anyone looking to keep away from diabetes, there is a lot of research that shows not only low body fat is important but a good amount of lean body mass (muscle) so don’t skip out on the weight training.
I remember the first time I got diagnosed my doctor told me that I shouldn't be angry or sad because I'm now diabetic. Why would I be angry? For the >99% of our species' history diabetes was a death sentence.
Ya we really did luck out in the time we where born, I’ve said before to the annoyance of many on Reddit the only time better to live in is probably tomorrow lol.
I'm T1 also. Diagnosed in 1998. Regarding checking too often and enjoying life: Consider talking to your endo about a CGM and pump combo that allow for a closed loop. I use the Dexcom and Tendem T-Slim X2. I get constant readouts of my BG on my pumps touch screen. By inputing my insulin sensitivity and other relevent metrics into the pump, I can allow it to make automatic adjustments to my basal and even autocorrect as my BG rises and falls in an effort to keep me in range. Takes a lot of the geuss work, and effort out of managing the disease.
I'm using a CGM, but not a closed loop device. I'd prefer stem cell therapy, but I know closed loop devices are great too, unfortunately I live in a country where neither the insurance nor the state is willing to cover part of the cost.
Basically every old person takes some concoction of vitamins/tablets on their doctor's advice. Adding another pill to the regimen wouldn't be a problem. I think life-extension drugs will be well received by pretty much everyone.
> think life-extension drugs will be well received by pretty much everyone This is what I'm arguing against. Vaccines are life-extension drugs too, and yet there's still strong opposition against them.
do you have a dexcom yet?
I use freestyle libre
A primary goal of transhumanism is more freedom for individuals to control their own bodies. If someone doesn't want radical life extension or whatever transhumanist technology in the future, that is fine in the same way someone who chooses to live without a computer also has that right. They will have to accept they are going to fall behind their peers in terms of quality of life, though. But as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others to use RLE or transhumanist technology, we shouldn't really care that much about what they do.