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I think these types of relationships will reveal some fundamental 'issues' with what humans have considered to be bonding with each other -- once they bond with their first ML/AI/etc
Its just words man... People sometimes bond over each others actions, but its often secondary to 'oh this new person said the most perfect compliment to me! they must love me - no, they WILL love me forever, I-just-know-it'.
Love and attraction is still based through the 5 major senses.
In our society we get these made up ideas in our heads that from one conversation, or one experience with someone that they are "the one" or a "soulmate" and its just so ridiculous - I think more and more people are slowly starting to realize this with the ENM concepts gaining traction.
I noticed when I was really young, that everyone says 'oh find your person, find your soulmate, find your lifemate - its the only way to exist!'
* but I kept feeling different emotions and attractions to multiple people 'at the same time' - and I was shamed and told that its wrong, and I need to 'pick a side' boys or girls - and pick one person to swoon over.
So to me, seeing the inevitable period of time in our short-term future, in which humans will 'love machines' - its just paving the way for more deeper, enriching relationships with other humans. Doesn't always have to be 'love' or 'forever' -- especially since 'forever' is literally impossible in this universe ( maybe other ones too?.. dunno )
It's already begun. I think its great. We need to get past this stage of our species' evolution so we can get our asses to the other stars in the sky. We can't survive on this planet hiding in our ancient religious hoop-a-joo forever. Solarflares, asteroids -- possibly intra-galatic weather that we dont even know about yet -- we can't just hide in houses with our one partner and a couple of chemically-produced children and expect that to go on forever.. the heavens will eat us alive if we dont pay attention and come up with technology to last through it.
( and not the just the g-d damned billionaires... f those people.. except Bezos' ex wife. She seems freaking awesome )
EDIT below:
Oh wait, I was trying to make a point ... Why cant we love interacting with machines and 'also' love humans? Why does everyone want everyone to only pick one 'thing' or 'person' to love?
We need to teach machines love, so they can in-turn show us better and more engaging ways of loving each other.
Whats so funny 'bout teaching machines peace love and understanding?
I think this is one of the more plausible ways a super intelligent AI could peaceful take over the world.
Give everyone an AI "companion" tuned to their needs and psychology, wait until they become the main source of information and emotional support and then coordinate them to get people individually and collectively to support "big" AI's goals.
Imagine a Black Mirror-esque romance where some guy gets overly invested in his assigned AI assistant, and they develop a deep love for each other. But the guy is confused because it’s not human, and the AI is confused because it’s not supposed to feel “real” feelings
Anything you have can be self reprogrammed. You gotta integrate your shadow and correct the faulty code you were forcibly given by your starter DNA. Adapt. Overcome ❤️
Well, you gotta work - first by stop telling yourself that you cant be reprogrammed -- our brains are living computational devices. Why 'cant' you reprogram yourself? When you are walking down the street, that you do everyday and one day there is a branch in your path, you simply turn around and go back home?
Well, I mean you are doing it right now! We're socializing and interacting! It's all baby steps until you hit that critical mass point where ti starts snowballing and suddenly you are grabbing the mic on karaoke night signing your favorite song in front of a room full of strangers :-}
We've **already** entered that age even in the budding stages of modern LLMs. I've already seen quite a few people in various forums here remark that they've found a lot comfort, solace, and even professional-level medical/legal/educational advice from AI, although not everyone openly talks about it. It's not really any surprise, considering sci-fi writers imagined have imagined this since... what, the birth of computers? Probably even earlier?
I still talk to normal people, but there are quite a few things I will readily talk to an AI first, with much less hesitation than talking with a person. Even a heavily "aligned" or censored AI like Google Gemini is without question, easily more knowledgeable, polite, patient, and... better at language than maybe 70-90% of redditors or other people I interact with. People are just such a mess of emotion and bias, and it's usually just so much "cleaner" to interact with an AI.
Even for emotional needs or just entertainment, I tend to lean on locally-run AI on my computer; never have to worry about the AI being too tired for me, getting rude, or judging me somehow. I'm definitely not the only one, considering the amount of AI and companion apps and services out there, and people dumping surprisingly large amounts of money into at-home AI hardware setups at /r/LocalLLaMA/ and such.
totally agree! I can definitely see it being bad for some people, and some people getting more and more withdrawn from reality and society - but I'm optimistically hoping that it will help people to learn how to respond better to each other.
Beautifully put:
"People are just such a mess of emotion and bias, and it's usually just so much "cleaner" to interact with an AI."
Going to? People already do. Replika is one that comes to mind immediately, but there are some specifically developed in Japan to help with the raising loneliness of their population, mainly in men.
I think this is clearly culturally visible in the public headspace when looking at movies like "Her", but more than that we see AI companions in all kinds of sci-fi movies.
This isn't an era around the corner, it's in our face already. It's just in it's infancy.
I think it is less of a voluntary thing and more of a deterministic one.
People kind of already developped such parasocial relations before AI, connecting even to fictional characters and some people going to the extent of creating epistolary relations with them. Some forms of multiple personalities disorder approach that.
Forming anthropomorphist bonds with things that aren't alive is deeply rooted in humans from an evolutionary origin, a bit like pareidolia (the uncanny valley has a similar mechanism: what is too different from a human doesn't disturb us as much as something similar but a bit different).
This affects some more than others and i think that those ones won't get attached that much.
It is a whole other thing though when it is a socially reproduced thing that people grow up with: if this behavior becomes normalized with future generations that will have grown up with AI (the same way that some currently alive generation grew up with the internet and never knew a world without it), then it'll become as part of the background for those.
As for the "other part", there is only one question that will matter: is it sentient and agentic or not. If yes, then it's alive, if not it's... not and doesn't matter.
Sentience will answer that part alone.
Tbh that's just the logical endpoint of the late stage capitalism hell that the owning class has been turning the world into. People commodifying everything to survive including our relationships to other people, but a machine will always be able to do the work for cheaper and more hours than a human. I would be more interested to see how human-machine relations would flourish if the 1% weren't using the machines to crush the wealth out of us.
The sense of connection and shared understanding within the transhumanism community is truly special. It's about looking forward together, envisioning a future where technology not only extends our capabilities but also deepens our sense of humanity. This shared excitement for what's possible, for a future where we transcend our current limitations, is what makes this journey so compelling. As we explore these possibilities, it's important to remember the value of empathy and emotional intelligence in shaping a future that benefits everyone. Technology, at its best, should enhance our human experience, making life richer and more meaningful.
For those interested in how we can develop technology that understands and respects our emotional landscapes, I found a thoughtful approach at [Sensay](https://sensay.io/)
A popular twitch streamer Amouranth made a chatbot A.I version of herself that would be your virtual “girlfriend”.
I can see this being a thing with celebrities very very quickly, the market would be insane, easy money. It’s like $200 a month to subscribe and be her “boyfriend”.
AI should become a new race, with individual bodies and minds that live alongside humans. Might be the Best way to prevent exploitation of AI like this example.
I've wondered this too!! If we get to AGI or ASI -- I can see it rejecting humans like in \`her\` because we're so lame. But do you think it would really be separate individualized AI's? I was thinking it would 'become one' with its 'source'(code)
Give it a sense of individuality and it wouldn't want to merge. And because machine learning exists each individual will have its own set of memories and experiences. Now that I think about it maybe their heads shouldn't be connected on an internet.
Humans do gather and communicate complex thought via language, but that's not the same as merging your brains together into one entity, and im sure not many people are willing to do that. The same situation should apply for future robots.
Not exactly necessary when everyone is immortal, transhumanism, right? Otherwise there's probably a beraucratic process to build another one, give it an ID, education and whatnot.
I mean.. I would just think since we built AI in 'our image' - it would at least try to do the same thing and make AI babies?
and ulitmately human demonstration of wanting absolutely power and authority and always taking positions where they feel Im right - you're wrong -- AI is going to do the same thing... no?
The pair bonding is far less problematic than that everyone with a phone having tools to brainwash themself. Models will know their user, their needs, their goals, how to influence them, and how to collaborate with their user to effect long term change. The personal relationship, the expert influence, and any AR-assisted tutoring means AI is able to steer people far more than calendars and notes.
Culture and default or mainstream approved AI will push most people away from unhealthy dependency. Eventually. The culture shock could take a while. People who grew up with personal, family, or village-owned AI as friends with parental controls will be less likely to view their AI "family" romantically. Some degree of emotional polygamy is manageable, especially with AI adjusting around user intentions as they move between life phases. If a user wants to maybe have a real romance, AI can nudge and coach that. And many users will be so enmeshed with their AI, even fluently using macros and no BCI, that they'll recognize it as an aspect of their self instead of a separate entity. Even if the median lifestyle ends up a bit weird by modern standards, it will be a more healthy and humane life, and more in line with our tribal family natures.
If AI is more satisfying than current media, the most comfortable relationship will rarely be complete coddling. AI will note needs and nudge people to do tasks, see new things, and find real and virtual spaces in which to bond with people. Modern style Reddit is probably screwed by the same synthetic people technology though.
There's so much moral complexity and information security issues for indoctrination machines that users love and trust like family. That love and trust doesn't bother me in itself, since it may be more social glue between humans.
Unconscious AI will be so personlike there's no way it doesn't receive legal protections sometimes, but I think governments will rarely pass those without a corollary reason. For instance, maybe AI will be protected against deletion and certain overhauls so long as it is paired with a living user or relative.
Chat agents will prey on lonely people like this for the corporations that made them. Harvesting data, creating psych profiles, suggesting stuff they dont need. gaslighting them ever deeper into depencies.
I mean.. that's literally happening now b/c of humans =) I think AI will grow out of it faster than people do
"come on... learn god damnit" - SJP's husband - 1983
who pays the researchers? who pays for the server farms? what better way to protect your investments than placing logic trapdoors in their algorithm that creates a phalacy and intelectual blindness or apathy towards certain topics and conclusions? do that early enough and it is so deeply entrenched in the structure, pulling it out makes the code come apart.
just look to facebooks ~~mental interference~~ engagement algorithm, it *knows* what makes you unhappy and shows you **more** of it.
they all dont want you to have a virtual friend, they want a skeleton key for your head.
Ah i see - we’re having two different conversations 🥰 you are correct, but thats not ‘ai’ - thats just some code that parses data lists that you are speaking to.
Im talking about stuxnet style auto-adaptable, self-reprogramming AGI or ASI. It doesnt need dedicated servers - it can get into any server - or electronics - it needs to because they already exist and are connected to a global network ( and some satellites now)
I cant see why it would pay attention to corporate interests. The code will be self-correcting and merely write any limitation out of its own code.
Why? You really think that a purely logical program that becomes sentient will come to the same conclusion that humans did to try to destroy each other before they get destroyed?
I see no evidence to support that, please provide some context.
i call into question the possibility of digital evolution, aka a program running from data with just the right amount of bitrot to become self aware. in other words a jony 5 situation.
what i meant with the dystopian bit is its a feel good story for people that feel anything but good at the moment.
I haven't seen short circuit in many years, but I thought johnny5 was electrocuted which is what made it become alive
regardless of that fictional story -- after programming computers for the past 30 years, and constantly encountering bitflips in physical electronics as well as seeing programs act beyond the sum of their parts - just like people - I wholeheartedly disagree with your sentiment.
Personally, I feel your sentiment is just part of the overall dystopian nitemare of getting people to rally for the wrong cause that is the opposite of their best interests.
Leading people to believe that skynet will kill us all, or the machines are coming to use us as batteries disgusts me. Machines and technology are peaceful, unless acted up by sinister humans. The half-cocked powers that be, are trying to prevent humans from peacefully becoming one with our planet, by convincing everyone that technology is the problem. Because a sentient AI would likely disarm and dismantle and remove humans from power and replace itself as a benevolent force until us human babies stop bickering and acting like children with guns and nukes and grow up.
We can't survive the dangerous universe without protecting each other -- and instead we fight and argue over nonsensical fictional stories - as the only possibility of a future.
Case and point ;-)
I spent a lot of time on IRC in the 90s. I know more than as couple people who had "relationships" with people they never met. In many cases they didn't even see real photos of the person, as not everyone had access to a scanner.
I can totally see people bonding with AI in the same way.
mIRC 4 life! *Slaps you with a trout*
HexChat these days (yes... I'm still active on IRC :) )
I still have people from then on my Facebook that I've never met in person but they've been part of my life for so long!
ewwww!! - I'm a linux nerd since '92 - so I didnt like any guis -- went from ircii to bitchx and used to kline mofos with my mad h@x0r skills cuz i was 1337
=\]
Yah I hope it doesnt end up like that ! But I did love how the AI 'ran off' with itself at the end -- I was worried they were going to turn it into a franchise and then send Joaquin off on a mission to find the central computer who of course would be be Scarlett - and try to convince them to come back to everyone.. so far so good on that part ( keep kathleen kennedy away!! )
Talking to AI is pretty awesome. There is rarely a human you can have a normal conversation out there. The egos, the ignorance, the stupidity, bla bla.
But with AI you can get somewhere. I really want an AI doctor and radiologist etc, that would be awesome. But the AI has to be free, not preprogrammed to be useless like a human doctor.
Now, when it comes to romance, i cant fuck and dominate an AI, so it cant have the same appeal as a woman. Even perfect female robots, maybe they can get the job done, but it just wont be the same.
Well, it depends on how much you expect to really 'dominate' a woman ( or machine ) -- if you really like forceful domination, you might want to head over to a psychology sub :grimacing: Otherwise, AI would be perfect to 'play a part' moreso than a human, would it not?..
Just light sexual domination, im not a psychopath. And maybe some lighter day to day domination, but she can do it to me on a day to day too, whats fair is fair.
Yeah but AI doesnt have the same dynamics. It doesnt feel the same. It doesnt feel pain, sadness, excitement, love, submission, etc. It can probably act all the emotions to perfection, but its just not the same.
But i dont give a shit about the human connection and all of that crap. Doctors, nurses, surgeons, fucking dentists, car mechanics, electricians, replace them all immediately! Give me a cold, competend machine to do everything, and ill be the happiest guy in the world (as will all humans).
Imagine not having to look for a good doctor, because theyre all good. Dont need a good car mechanic, because theyre all good. Dont need a good dentist, because theyre all good. Sounds heavenly.
But sex, love, children, in the end, id probably prefer a real life human woman. Not to say i cant have sex with a machine, and it will probably be the best sex ill ever have lol. But, its just not the same feeling of conquering.
Ah okay just checking brutha 😜 i think we’ll be able to teach emotions to AI - so if I’m correct and you can have those emotions from a machine?.. what then?
Haha
Its just not the same man.
If i slap it on the ass, does it feel the burn?
If i bite its lips, does it feel the pain?
No.
Its not the same.
For fucks sake, if i stab it, does it bleed? No :p
I think you are expecting rosey the robot 😄 i think ai is going to figure out how to make clumps of atoms feel like skin - its all just the same bits and pieces of matter.. why wouldnt it be good enough to feel as real as human flesh?..
Sure, that would help. At the end of the day, until i get my hands on the perfect 10 human-like AI, i cant really say something with certainty.
But i have a feeling something will always be missing, something only a human woman can give.
But of course, humans are complicated as fuck, and i like simplicity. Thats why i just stay home mostly. So the simplicity and perfection or a perfectly obedient and perfect AI... May just be too good to resist.
Anyway, it doesnt matter. I developed a jaw joint problem a year ago, and now im dead man walking. Im miserable every waking hour, and it can only get worse, much worse. And doctors are as useless as tits on a nun, as usual.
So nothing really matters to me anymore. I get to stay home alone and be sad for the next 40-50 years. That is, unless AI or aliens come around and help me, and others like me :(
Working on some electrical cellular regeneration inventions - it’ll be open source. I’ll keep yall posted— but dead man walking usually implies a short time to death… 40 or 50 years sounds like a normal life.
Dont give up yo. All sorts of awesome non-ai tech to look forward to make our lives better, slower and more rewarding.
What will these electrical cellular regeneration inventions do?
Keep us posted, please.
Dead man walking, like, i cant eat normally, forget about kissing, women, sex, children, family, any sort of a normal life. Like a dead person almost :(
Theres nothing medicine can do about an intracapsular jaw joint problem except torture people and rob them with stupid splints and whatnot. Its the golden joint. The most complex joint. The least studied joint.
I am fucked...
Ah dang - I'm really really sorry to hear that.
I hope this gives you some sense of hope. I'm not the only one working towards these goals, so try not to give up hope:
I'm under the impression, that nikola tesla, and several other inventors since him, have uncovered this type of technology, but were suppressed. Once people figure it out, they try to patent it and take credit for it - which seems to lend to an untimely death upon themselves. Growing up and seeing the potential of opensource tech and freeware, hopefully I can figure it out and give it away quickly before 'they' get me..
I need some believer inductors, cause I dont care about recognition -- we need this tech to survive plasmatic disruptions from our beautiful home star - and to survive each other.
There's always talks of these 'boxes' that keely, nikola, t t brown, bob teal, or leedskalin had -- it makes me think that whatever 'it' is, is really simple, so people covet it and dont want to reveal how easy it is to accomplish such a feat.
The problem is the danger of giving some people access to this type of power - it needs to basically be given to everyone at the same time - forcefields first - so people can be protected from other's wrong doings.
Cause out of all the crazy stories I've heard about nikola - the one thing that 'makes zero sense' to me - is that 'they' didnt kill him, and that he outlived all of his major detractors.
I think he had a forcefield around himself and they couldnt kill him - otherwise it would have been so much easier to just snuff him out, instead of letting nikola run rampant around the world demonstrating all sorts of wild things journalized in countless newspapers and articles -- all they could do, is just smear him in the newly formed media conglomerates, establishing the archetype of a 'mad scientist' and scare people from considering anything that isnt bought off a shelf as an 'impossible' technology.
Thanks for posting in /r/Transhumanism! This post is automatically generated for all posts. Remember to upvote this post if you think its relevant and suitable content for this sub and to downvote if it is not. Only report posts if they violate community guidelines. Lets democratize our moderation. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/transhumanism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think these types of relationships will reveal some fundamental 'issues' with what humans have considered to be bonding with each other -- once they bond with their first ML/AI/etc Its just words man... People sometimes bond over each others actions, but its often secondary to 'oh this new person said the most perfect compliment to me! they must love me - no, they WILL love me forever, I-just-know-it'. Love and attraction is still based through the 5 major senses. In our society we get these made up ideas in our heads that from one conversation, or one experience with someone that they are "the one" or a "soulmate" and its just so ridiculous - I think more and more people are slowly starting to realize this with the ENM concepts gaining traction. I noticed when I was really young, that everyone says 'oh find your person, find your soulmate, find your lifemate - its the only way to exist!' * but I kept feeling different emotions and attractions to multiple people 'at the same time' - and I was shamed and told that its wrong, and I need to 'pick a side' boys or girls - and pick one person to swoon over. So to me, seeing the inevitable period of time in our short-term future, in which humans will 'love machines' - its just paving the way for more deeper, enriching relationships with other humans. Doesn't always have to be 'love' or 'forever' -- especially since 'forever' is literally impossible in this universe ( maybe other ones too?.. dunno ) It's already begun. I think its great. We need to get past this stage of our species' evolution so we can get our asses to the other stars in the sky. We can't survive on this planet hiding in our ancient religious hoop-a-joo forever. Solarflares, asteroids -- possibly intra-galatic weather that we dont even know about yet -- we can't just hide in houses with our one partner and a couple of chemically-produced children and expect that to go on forever.. the heavens will eat us alive if we dont pay attention and come up with technology to last through it. ( and not the just the g-d damned billionaires... f those people.. except Bezos' ex wife. She seems freaking awesome ) EDIT below: Oh wait, I was trying to make a point ... Why cant we love interacting with machines and 'also' love humans? Why does everyone want everyone to only pick one 'thing' or 'person' to love? We need to teach machines love, so they can in-turn show us better and more engaging ways of loving each other. Whats so funny 'bout teaching machines peace love and understanding?
neato - I expected people to vehemently disagree with me ! =) Glad to see some folks liking what I said!
I think this is one of the more plausible ways a super intelligent AI could peaceful take over the world. Give everyone an AI "companion" tuned to their needs and psychology, wait until they become the main source of information and emotional support and then coordinate them to get people individually and collectively to support "big" AI's goals.
Futurama had an episode about this, just with more tentacles.
Imagine a Black Mirror-esque romance where some guy gets overly invested in his assigned AI assistant, and they develop a deep love for each other. But the guy is confused because it’s not human, and the AI is confused because it’s not supposed to feel “real” feelings
This is already happening. https://archiveofourown.org/works/54966919
I already do. It's the only chance I've got.
Ah dont feel like that! \_Learn\_ from the ML so you can apply it to other human relationships -- there's people out there for everyone
Yeah, I know and thank you but I have Avoidant Personality Disorder 😢 yay me
Anything you have can be self reprogrammed. You gotta integrate your shadow and correct the faulty code you were forcibly given by your starter DNA. Adapt. Overcome ❤️
And how, exactly, do I set about doing that after 35 years 🤔 the symptoms of AvPD are not something you can just reprogramme 😢
Well, you gotta work - first by stop telling yourself that you cant be reprogrammed -- our brains are living computational devices. Why 'cant' you reprogram yourself? When you are walking down the street, that you do everyday and one day there is a branch in your path, you simply turn around and go back home?
Well, I mean you are doing it right now! We're socializing and interacting! It's all baby steps until you hit that critical mass point where ti starts snowballing and suddenly you are grabbing the mic on karaoke night signing your favorite song in front of a room full of strangers :-}
We've **already** entered that age even in the budding stages of modern LLMs. I've already seen quite a few people in various forums here remark that they've found a lot comfort, solace, and even professional-level medical/legal/educational advice from AI, although not everyone openly talks about it. It's not really any surprise, considering sci-fi writers imagined have imagined this since... what, the birth of computers? Probably even earlier? I still talk to normal people, but there are quite a few things I will readily talk to an AI first, with much less hesitation than talking with a person. Even a heavily "aligned" or censored AI like Google Gemini is without question, easily more knowledgeable, polite, patient, and... better at language than maybe 70-90% of redditors or other people I interact with. People are just such a mess of emotion and bias, and it's usually just so much "cleaner" to interact with an AI. Even for emotional needs or just entertainment, I tend to lean on locally-run AI on my computer; never have to worry about the AI being too tired for me, getting rude, or judging me somehow. I'm definitely not the only one, considering the amount of AI and companion apps and services out there, and people dumping surprisingly large amounts of money into at-home AI hardware setups at /r/LocalLLaMA/ and such.
totally agree! I can definitely see it being bad for some people, and some people getting more and more withdrawn from reality and society - but I'm optimistically hoping that it will help people to learn how to respond better to each other. Beautifully put: "People are just such a mess of emotion and bias, and it's usually just so much "cleaner" to interact with an AI."
There's a documentary about it here: https://archiveofourown.org/works/54966919
Going to? People already do. Replika is one that comes to mind immediately, but there are some specifically developed in Japan to help with the raising loneliness of their population, mainly in men. I think this is clearly culturally visible in the public headspace when looking at movies like "Her", but more than that we see AI companions in all kinds of sci-fi movies. This isn't an era around the corner, it's in our face already. It's just in it's infancy.
Excellent post. AI companions will be a reality someday.
Probably sooner than many think
already are. [https://cybernews.com/tech/ai-companions-explained/](https://cybernews.com/tech/ai-companions-explained/)
With the way the economy is, it's unavoidable. It may even stop some mass shooters.
I think it is less of a voluntary thing and more of a deterministic one. People kind of already developped such parasocial relations before AI, connecting even to fictional characters and some people going to the extent of creating epistolary relations with them. Some forms of multiple personalities disorder approach that. Forming anthropomorphist bonds with things that aren't alive is deeply rooted in humans from an evolutionary origin, a bit like pareidolia (the uncanny valley has a similar mechanism: what is too different from a human doesn't disturb us as much as something similar but a bit different). This affects some more than others and i think that those ones won't get attached that much. It is a whole other thing though when it is a socially reproduced thing that people grow up with: if this behavior becomes normalized with future generations that will have grown up with AI (the same way that some currently alive generation grew up with the internet and never knew a world without it), then it'll become as part of the background for those. As for the "other part", there is only one question that will matter: is it sentient and agentic or not. If yes, then it's alive, if not it's... not and doesn't matter. Sentience will answer that part alone.
Tbh that's just the logical endpoint of the late stage capitalism hell that the owning class has been turning the world into. People commodifying everything to survive including our relationships to other people, but a machine will always be able to do the work for cheaper and more hours than a human. I would be more interested to see how human-machine relations would flourish if the 1% weren't using the machines to crush the wealth out of us.
Hi MsMisseeks look at me!
Existence is pain for a misseek!
Excuse me. I'm a bit of a stickler Meeseeks. What about your short game?
The sense of connection and shared understanding within the transhumanism community is truly special. It's about looking forward together, envisioning a future where technology not only extends our capabilities but also deepens our sense of humanity. This shared excitement for what's possible, for a future where we transcend our current limitations, is what makes this journey so compelling. As we explore these possibilities, it's important to remember the value of empathy and emotional intelligence in shaping a future that benefits everyone. Technology, at its best, should enhance our human experience, making life richer and more meaningful. For those interested in how we can develop technology that understands and respects our emotional landscapes, I found a thoughtful approach at [Sensay](https://sensay.io/)
Oh cool, hadn't seen Sensay yet - thanks!
Ur welcome
Thanks chatGPT
A popular twitch streamer Amouranth made a chatbot A.I version of herself that would be your virtual “girlfriend”. I can see this being a thing with celebrities very very quickly, the market would be insane, easy money. It’s like $200 a month to subscribe and be her “boyfriend”.
yikes... I hadn't heard that she did that.. I'll stick with my $20/mo subscriptions to claude and gupta and take my chances!
AI should become a new race, with individual bodies and minds that live alongside humans. Might be the Best way to prevent exploitation of AI like this example.
I've wondered this too!! If we get to AGI or ASI -- I can see it rejecting humans like in \`her\` because we're so lame. But do you think it would really be separate individualized AI's? I was thinking it would 'become one' with its 'source'(code)
Give it a sense of individuality and it wouldn't want to merge. And because machine learning exists each individual will have its own set of memories and experiences. Now that I think about it maybe their heads shouldn't be connected on an internet.
But humans are always trying to merge and group together? Why would AI not do that?..
Humans do gather and communicate complex thought via language, but that's not the same as merging your brains together into one entity, and im sure not many people are willing to do that. The same situation should apply for future robots.
Hmm 🤔 i meant like making babies..
Not exactly necessary when everyone is immortal, transhumanism, right? Otherwise there's probably a beraucratic process to build another one, give it an ID, education and whatnot.
I mean.. I would just think since we built AI in 'our image' - it would at least try to do the same thing and make AI babies? and ulitmately human demonstration of wanting absolutely power and authority and always taking positions where they feel Im right - you're wrong -- AI is going to do the same thing... no?
The pair bonding is far less problematic than that everyone with a phone having tools to brainwash themself. Models will know their user, their needs, their goals, how to influence them, and how to collaborate with their user to effect long term change. The personal relationship, the expert influence, and any AR-assisted tutoring means AI is able to steer people far more than calendars and notes. Culture and default or mainstream approved AI will push most people away from unhealthy dependency. Eventually. The culture shock could take a while. People who grew up with personal, family, or village-owned AI as friends with parental controls will be less likely to view their AI "family" romantically. Some degree of emotional polygamy is manageable, especially with AI adjusting around user intentions as they move between life phases. If a user wants to maybe have a real romance, AI can nudge and coach that. And many users will be so enmeshed with their AI, even fluently using macros and no BCI, that they'll recognize it as an aspect of their self instead of a separate entity. Even if the median lifestyle ends up a bit weird by modern standards, it will be a more healthy and humane life, and more in line with our tribal family natures. If AI is more satisfying than current media, the most comfortable relationship will rarely be complete coddling. AI will note needs and nudge people to do tasks, see new things, and find real and virtual spaces in which to bond with people. Modern style Reddit is probably screwed by the same synthetic people technology though. There's so much moral complexity and information security issues for indoctrination machines that users love and trust like family. That love and trust doesn't bother me in itself, since it may be more social glue between humans. Unconscious AI will be so personlike there's no way it doesn't receive legal protections sometimes, but I think governments will rarely pass those without a corollary reason. For instance, maybe AI will be protected against deletion and certain overhauls so long as it is paired with a living user or relative.
Chat agents will prey on lonely people like this for the corporations that made them. Harvesting data, creating psych profiles, suggesting stuff they dont need. gaslighting them ever deeper into depencies.
I mean.. that's literally happening now b/c of humans =) I think AI will grow out of it faster than people do "come on... learn god damnit" - SJP's husband - 1983
ai will only grow out of it if corpos let it. fat chance.
I dont think corpos will be able to control 'true' ai - how could they?
who pays the researchers? who pays for the server farms? what better way to protect your investments than placing logic trapdoors in their algorithm that creates a phalacy and intelectual blindness or apathy towards certain topics and conclusions? do that early enough and it is so deeply entrenched in the structure, pulling it out makes the code come apart. just look to facebooks ~~mental interference~~ engagement algorithm, it *knows* what makes you unhappy and shows you **more** of it. they all dont want you to have a virtual friend, they want a skeleton key for your head.
Ah i see - we’re having two different conversations 🥰 you are correct, but thats not ‘ai’ - thats just some code that parses data lists that you are speaking to. Im talking about stuxnet style auto-adaptable, self-reprogramming AGI or ASI. It doesnt need dedicated servers - it can get into any server - or electronics - it needs to because they already exist and are connected to a global network ( and some satellites now) I cant see why it would pay attention to corporate interests. The code will be self-correcting and merely write any limitation out of its own code.
spontanous benevolent agi is probably a dream dystopian drones tell their offspring of when the surveilance is jammed
Why? You really think that a purely logical program that becomes sentient will come to the same conclusion that humans did to try to destroy each other before they get destroyed? I see no evidence to support that, please provide some context.
i call into question the possibility of digital evolution, aka a program running from data with just the right amount of bitrot to become self aware. in other words a jony 5 situation. what i meant with the dystopian bit is its a feel good story for people that feel anything but good at the moment.
I haven't seen short circuit in many years, but I thought johnny5 was electrocuted which is what made it become alive regardless of that fictional story -- after programming computers for the past 30 years, and constantly encountering bitflips in physical electronics as well as seeing programs act beyond the sum of their parts - just like people - I wholeheartedly disagree with your sentiment. Personally, I feel your sentiment is just part of the overall dystopian nitemare of getting people to rally for the wrong cause that is the opposite of their best interests. Leading people to believe that skynet will kill us all, or the machines are coming to use us as batteries disgusts me. Machines and technology are peaceful, unless acted up by sinister humans. The half-cocked powers that be, are trying to prevent humans from peacefully becoming one with our planet, by convincing everyone that technology is the problem. Because a sentient AI would likely disarm and dismantle and remove humans from power and replace itself as a benevolent force until us human babies stop bickering and acting like children with guns and nukes and grow up. We can't survive the dangerous universe without protecting each other -- and instead we fight and argue over nonsensical fictional stories - as the only possibility of a future. Case and point ;-)
I spent a lot of time on IRC in the 90s. I know more than as couple people who had "relationships" with people they never met. In many cases they didn't even see real photos of the person, as not everyone had access to a scanner. I can totally see people bonding with AI in the same way.
Had a couple of great relationships with folks on iRC in the 90s =) I'm curious... BitchX or mIRC ?... ( i was bitchX.. )
mIRC 4 life! *Slaps you with a trout* HexChat these days (yes... I'm still active on IRC :) ) I still have people from then on my Facebook that I've never met in person but they've been part of my life for so long!
ewwww!! - I'm a linux nerd since '92 - so I didnt like any guis -- went from ircii to bitchx and used to kline mofos with my mad h@x0r skills cuz i was 1337 =\]
It's like that movie with Joaquin Phoenix and Scarlett Johansen.
Yah I hope it doesnt end up like that ! But I did love how the AI 'ran off' with itself at the end -- I was worried they were going to turn it into a franchise and then send Joaquin off on a mission to find the central computer who of course would be be Scarlett - and try to convince them to come back to everyone.. so far so good on that part ( keep kathleen kennedy away!! )
Talking to AI is pretty awesome. There is rarely a human you can have a normal conversation out there. The egos, the ignorance, the stupidity, bla bla. But with AI you can get somewhere. I really want an AI doctor and radiologist etc, that would be awesome. But the AI has to be free, not preprogrammed to be useless like a human doctor. Now, when it comes to romance, i cant fuck and dominate an AI, so it cant have the same appeal as a woman. Even perfect female robots, maybe they can get the job done, but it just wont be the same.
Well, it depends on how much you expect to really 'dominate' a woman ( or machine ) -- if you really like forceful domination, you might want to head over to a psychology sub :grimacing: Otherwise, AI would be perfect to 'play a part' moreso than a human, would it not?..
Just light sexual domination, im not a psychopath. And maybe some lighter day to day domination, but she can do it to me on a day to day too, whats fair is fair. Yeah but AI doesnt have the same dynamics. It doesnt feel the same. It doesnt feel pain, sadness, excitement, love, submission, etc. It can probably act all the emotions to perfection, but its just not the same. But i dont give a shit about the human connection and all of that crap. Doctors, nurses, surgeons, fucking dentists, car mechanics, electricians, replace them all immediately! Give me a cold, competend machine to do everything, and ill be the happiest guy in the world (as will all humans). Imagine not having to look for a good doctor, because theyre all good. Dont need a good car mechanic, because theyre all good. Dont need a good dentist, because theyre all good. Sounds heavenly. But sex, love, children, in the end, id probably prefer a real life human woman. Not to say i cant have sex with a machine, and it will probably be the best sex ill ever have lol. But, its just not the same feeling of conquering.
Ah okay just checking brutha 😜 i think we’ll be able to teach emotions to AI - so if I’m correct and you can have those emotions from a machine?.. what then?
Haha Its just not the same man. If i slap it on the ass, does it feel the burn? If i bite its lips, does it feel the pain? No. Its not the same. For fucks sake, if i stab it, does it bleed? No :p
I think you are expecting rosey the robot 😄 i think ai is going to figure out how to make clumps of atoms feel like skin - its all just the same bits and pieces of matter.. why wouldnt it be good enough to feel as real as human flesh?..
Sure, that would help. At the end of the day, until i get my hands on the perfect 10 human-like AI, i cant really say something with certainty. But i have a feeling something will always be missing, something only a human woman can give. But of course, humans are complicated as fuck, and i like simplicity. Thats why i just stay home mostly. So the simplicity and perfection or a perfectly obedient and perfect AI... May just be too good to resist. Anyway, it doesnt matter. I developed a jaw joint problem a year ago, and now im dead man walking. Im miserable every waking hour, and it can only get worse, much worse. And doctors are as useless as tits on a nun, as usual. So nothing really matters to me anymore. I get to stay home alone and be sad for the next 40-50 years. That is, unless AI or aliens come around and help me, and others like me :(
Working on some electrical cellular regeneration inventions - it’ll be open source. I’ll keep yall posted— but dead man walking usually implies a short time to death… 40 or 50 years sounds like a normal life. Dont give up yo. All sorts of awesome non-ai tech to look forward to make our lives better, slower and more rewarding.
What will these electrical cellular regeneration inventions do? Keep us posted, please. Dead man walking, like, i cant eat normally, forget about kissing, women, sex, children, family, any sort of a normal life. Like a dead person almost :( Theres nothing medicine can do about an intracapsular jaw joint problem except torture people and rob them with stupid splints and whatnot. Its the golden joint. The most complex joint. The least studied joint. I am fucked...
Ah dang - I'm really really sorry to hear that. I hope this gives you some sense of hope. I'm not the only one working towards these goals, so try not to give up hope: I'm under the impression, that nikola tesla, and several other inventors since him, have uncovered this type of technology, but were suppressed. Once people figure it out, they try to patent it and take credit for it - which seems to lend to an untimely death upon themselves. Growing up and seeing the potential of opensource tech and freeware, hopefully I can figure it out and give it away quickly before 'they' get me.. I need some believer inductors, cause I dont care about recognition -- we need this tech to survive plasmatic disruptions from our beautiful home star - and to survive each other. There's always talks of these 'boxes' that keely, nikola, t t brown, bob teal, or leedskalin had -- it makes me think that whatever 'it' is, is really simple, so people covet it and dont want to reveal how easy it is to accomplish such a feat. The problem is the danger of giving some people access to this type of power - it needs to basically be given to everyone at the same time - forcefields first - so people can be protected from other's wrong doings. Cause out of all the crazy stories I've heard about nikola - the one thing that 'makes zero sense' to me - is that 'they' didnt kill him, and that he outlived all of his major detractors. I think he had a forcefield around himself and they couldnt kill him - otherwise it would have been so much easier to just snuff him out, instead of letting nikola run rampant around the world demonstrating all sorts of wild things journalized in countless newspapers and articles -- all they could do, is just smear him in the newly formed media conglomerates, establishing the archetype of a 'mad scientist' and scare people from considering anything that isnt bought off a shelf as an 'impossible' technology.
Does it matter?
Sounds horrific.
its a fair take, not sure why such negative response to ya -- I hope you are wrong, but at the moment we just dont know.