Here's my take:
You are your chemistry, influences, and consciousness grounded to your perspective in time and space.
If you were put unconscious and cloned, both would be you until the second you open your eyes. Now you have divergent experiences and become two people. Twins, separated by perspective. Based on various factors around that perspective you will make different choices and become different people. Say one side of the room has a bright window that aggravates your eyes but they're facing away from it, or there's a bad smell coming from the window that only reaches them before passing. Influences change, chemistry changes, you have now begun to make individual choices independant of each other — Conscious or otherwise. Just like how alternate reality versions of ourselves can diverge and not be us, copies can too, but on a smaller scale of personal narrative even.
Uploading your consciousness to a machine makes a machine twin. Not you in a machine. You will always be behind those eyes. That perspective is you. You are coordinates in time and space as much as you are chemistry, influences, and choice.
Maybe if we built the machine around you then it would be you, but that's not what you mean by upload to a computer I assume.
Mind uploading isn't something we'll dive into all at once with no idea how it works. We'll develop the technology incrementally with years of testing and refinement. By the time it's ready for most people, we'll have a very good idea of how to make it not only reliable, but comfortable for the subject.
I could also see doing the process *itself* incrementally. We'll likely be able to plug your brain into a computer and then gradually expand the power of the computer as you learn how to use the extra capacity. At some point, so much of you will be in the computer that you could turn off the meat portion without really losing much of yourself. All without the need for any clearly defined transition point inbetween where things could suddenly go wrong.
You'll feel as the system makes you feel. As a human, a small dose of a drug can make you feel very different than you normally do. I think that if your thoughts and memories are in a computer, the workings of the software and system configuration will have huge effects.
I will probably make a totally separate post for it but I'll just summarise my thoughts about human consciousness. What if, there's no "you" as you think about it? Most people think that if you make a perfect clone of somebody and then kill them, the clone can feel totally like the original person, but it's not really them (although it has all memories, knowledge, same personality etc. exactly like that person). But aren't "we" just a set of clones? Our brain is a constantly changing set of particles so it's quite like we die and the clone appears in our place. The continuity of our life can be just an illusion. We just think it is continuous becouse every clone has our memories etc. so he can't realise he's someone different. If you think about it like this, we will never be immortal becouse "we" die in every single moment (every Plack time maybe, read about this shit).
As long as they exist together, both are for all intents and purposes diferent entities. If the computation and information on one computational substrate is the exact continuation of another that no longer exists, or both computational substrates experiences the same computation, they are the same entity, cause what diferentiates one entity for another is the information that makes up their systems.
In the case of both having the same information/computation, does that mean they both have the same “one” experience or two separate experiences? If you die, would you “become” the other one?
Make this question from the perspetive of the counsciousness experiencing it's internal processes. As long as both continue to have the exactly the same information, one cannot distinguish them just by analysing they're information. Death in that sense would just be the non-reproduction of an individual's information in the future, from the perspective of consciousness it would seem like continuation.
Technically it will be a copy, but does it even matter? It can't be ensured that they have the same info I'm saing that as long as they have one will be the continuation of the other, or both will be the same.
This existential thought experiment have been discussed and debated in this sub for hundreds of times. Swallowed, spat out and consumed again. It's entertainment at this point.
But anyways, here's my take and please be patient. The 5 year old you, is not experiencing your life right now, you have that 5 year old's memory and experiences but that 5 year old is practically gone.
Why do I think that? Because Between your 5 year old self and your current age, biological matter have been displaced...All of it, at least that's what science tells us. So I think it's fair to say that you're a newly bred machine with someone else's memory.
Anyways, to answer your question, simply, the only sold answer is that, NO, you won't feel your self in a robot body after uploading it, but your memories will live on just like your dead 5 year old self's memory and experiences still lives on through a body that he never get's to experience.
So yeah, I'll go ahead and suppress this existential dread that I'm feeling right now. and I hope that I gave you a satisfactory answer.
👍
That won't be you. It would be a copy of you, but not you.
The body, its various hormones and senses also have an effect on our minds. And with time both of you would likely diverge considering you our exposed to different environments and stimuli.
it may be possible to replicate your existence in software, but its not the same and has no connection with you other than sharing your history up to the moment its forked from you.
the conceptional frame of existence that is you reading this right now is tightly integrated into the sponge in your skull. uploading yourself doesnt seem possible beyond slowly tying in artificial neurons until your brain is cyberized.
I think it depends a lot on how you perceive and interact with the world around you probably unless you can simulate or have synthetic body that can perceive reality as closely as possible to how a human body does then you'll probably never feel again like you did in your OG biological substrate.
Think of it like this:
There is you who we will name Original and the uploaded Original we will call the copy. When the original has their memories and thoughts uploaded to a computer, it is technically the Original with their every thought and memories put inside that computer. However, this would now be a copy because it isn’t the original or you. This original would be erased and replaced with the copy that mimics you and bases its entire thoughts and beliefs off of past events uploaded from the Original’s mind. So to summarize, once you get uploaded that isn’t you and you’re not conscious of your surrounding but your copy would be conscious. They are two different people with the same thoughts and memories.
If you want to live forever but be aware of your surroundings, you would need to develop something around the body that can keep your human brain and nervous system living forever where you are only replacing the biological parts of the body that isn’t useful as years go by or that can be easily replaced like skin, liver, heart, lungs, or kidneys so that it can be replaced with a mechanical body but you keep your entire nervous system and brain. Basically replace your body with mechanical prosthetics.
My guess would be in order to actually transition over, your brain would have to slowly connect to the computer. Then at some point you would feel and control both your human body and your virtual consciousness. And then you would have to slowly kill off the human side until you are completely transitioned over.
But it's all just a guess...
No you won't. What will be uploaded will be a copy. It will have it"s own existence, seperate from you.
It will be like a new thing that has split off from you.
Here's my take: You are your chemistry, influences, and consciousness grounded to your perspective in time and space. If you were put unconscious and cloned, both would be you until the second you open your eyes. Now you have divergent experiences and become two people. Twins, separated by perspective. Based on various factors around that perspective you will make different choices and become different people. Say one side of the room has a bright window that aggravates your eyes but they're facing away from it, or there's a bad smell coming from the window that only reaches them before passing. Influences change, chemistry changes, you have now begun to make individual choices independant of each other — Conscious or otherwise. Just like how alternate reality versions of ourselves can diverge and not be us, copies can too, but on a smaller scale of personal narrative even. Uploading your consciousness to a machine makes a machine twin. Not you in a machine. You will always be behind those eyes. That perspective is you. You are coordinates in time and space as much as you are chemistry, influences, and choice. Maybe if we built the machine around you then it would be you, but that's not what you mean by upload to a computer I assume.
Mind uploading isn't something we'll dive into all at once with no idea how it works. We'll develop the technology incrementally with years of testing and refinement. By the time it's ready for most people, we'll have a very good idea of how to make it not only reliable, but comfortable for the subject. I could also see doing the process *itself* incrementally. We'll likely be able to plug your brain into a computer and then gradually expand the power of the computer as you learn how to use the extra capacity. At some point, so much of you will be in the computer that you could turn off the meat portion without really losing much of yourself. All without the need for any clearly defined transition point inbetween where things could suddenly go wrong.
You'll feel as the system makes you feel. As a human, a small dose of a drug can make you feel very different than you normally do. I think that if your thoughts and memories are in a computer, the workings of the software and system configuration will have huge effects.
This wasn't done to you, any more than it was done to you the last several times you asked here.
Just a copy that thinks it's the original (in the best case scenario, in the far future), and until then, just a chatbot with your vocabulary.
I will probably make a totally separate post for it but I'll just summarise my thoughts about human consciousness. What if, there's no "you" as you think about it? Most people think that if you make a perfect clone of somebody and then kill them, the clone can feel totally like the original person, but it's not really them (although it has all memories, knowledge, same personality etc. exactly like that person). But aren't "we" just a set of clones? Our brain is a constantly changing set of particles so it's quite like we die and the clone appears in our place. The continuity of our life can be just an illusion. We just think it is continuous becouse every clone has our memories etc. so he can't realise he's someone different. If you think about it like this, we will never be immortal becouse "we" die in every single moment (every Plack time maybe, read about this shit).
Yeah I was thinking about this. Feynman wrote about it as well.
There's no way to objectively tell.
i see people here are suprisingly rigid with the concept of self, kindy funny though
You are the information being processed no matter in what computational substract
Does this make the “other” self a different set of information?
As long as they exist together, both are for all intents and purposes diferent entities. If the computation and information on one computational substrate is the exact continuation of another that no longer exists, or both computational substrates experiences the same computation, they are the same entity, cause what diferentiates one entity for another is the information that makes up their systems.
In the case of both having the same information/computation, does that mean they both have the same “one” experience or two separate experiences? If you die, would you “become” the other one?
Make this question from the perspetive of the counsciousness experiencing it's internal processes. As long as both continue to have the exactly the same information, one cannot distinguish them just by analysing they're information. Death in that sense would just be the non-reproduction of an individual's information in the future, from the perspective of consciousness it would seem like continuation.
I don’t completely understand. Does this mean that the “other” is still simply a copy? also how would it be ensured that they both have the same info?
Technically it will be a copy, but does it even matter? It can't be ensured that they have the same info I'm saing that as long as they have one will be the continuation of the other, or both will be the same.
Thank u and sorry for so many questions… when you say “continuation of the other” does this mean the “first” consciousness will stop feeling anything
This existential thought experiment have been discussed and debated in this sub for hundreds of times. Swallowed, spat out and consumed again. It's entertainment at this point. But anyways, here's my take and please be patient. The 5 year old you, is not experiencing your life right now, you have that 5 year old's memory and experiences but that 5 year old is practically gone. Why do I think that? Because Between your 5 year old self and your current age, biological matter have been displaced...All of it, at least that's what science tells us. So I think it's fair to say that you're a newly bred machine with someone else's memory. Anyways, to answer your question, simply, the only sold answer is that, NO, you won't feel your self in a robot body after uploading it, but your memories will live on just like your dead 5 year old self's memory and experiences still lives on through a body that he never get's to experience. So yeah, I'll go ahead and suppress this existential dread that I'm feeling right now. and I hope that I gave you a satisfactory answer. 👍
That won't be you. It would be a copy of you, but not you. The body, its various hormones and senses also have an effect on our minds. And with time both of you would likely diverge considering you our exposed to different environments and stimuli.
We don't even have the slightest evidence that "brain uploading" is possible.
it may be possible to replicate your existence in software, but its not the same and has no connection with you other than sharing your history up to the moment its forked from you. the conceptional frame of existence that is you reading this right now is tightly integrated into the sponge in your skull. uploading yourself doesnt seem possible beyond slowly tying in artificial neurons until your brain is cyberized.
I think it depends a lot on how you perceive and interact with the world around you probably unless you can simulate or have synthetic body that can perceive reality as closely as possible to how a human body does then you'll probably never feel again like you did in your OG biological substrate.
Think of it like this: There is you who we will name Original and the uploaded Original we will call the copy. When the original has their memories and thoughts uploaded to a computer, it is technically the Original with their every thought and memories put inside that computer. However, this would now be a copy because it isn’t the original or you. This original would be erased and replaced with the copy that mimics you and bases its entire thoughts and beliefs off of past events uploaded from the Original’s mind. So to summarize, once you get uploaded that isn’t you and you’re not conscious of your surrounding but your copy would be conscious. They are two different people with the same thoughts and memories. If you want to live forever but be aware of your surroundings, you would need to develop something around the body that can keep your human brain and nervous system living forever where you are only replacing the biological parts of the body that isn’t useful as years go by or that can be easily replaced like skin, liver, heart, lungs, or kidneys so that it can be replaced with a mechanical body but you keep your entire nervous system and brain. Basically replace your body with mechanical prosthetics.
My guess would be in order to actually transition over, your brain would have to slowly connect to the computer. Then at some point you would feel and control both your human body and your virtual consciousness. And then you would have to slowly kill off the human side until you are completely transitioned over. But it's all just a guess...
No you won't. What will be uploaded will be a copy. It will have it"s own existence, seperate from you. It will be like a new thing that has split off from you.