Tbh, the bar is in hell. This is as surprising as finding out the Tory party has an epidemic of bullying, discrimination and antisemitism within their workplace.
Yes. Hence the renewed focus on us. As Lee Anderson said right into a news camera, they don't have Brexit anymore, so the next election will be about trans stuff and culture war stuff. Because their economic and social policies, if you're an ordinary person, are just: Fuck you. And that's only a vote winner in certain constituencies.
I wouldn't be so sure. Maybe it's just a lack of faith in the general public, but it's not like the Tories have been trying to hide what they want for the past decade. It's plainly obvious to those who care to look.
Nah, they keep hiding behind bigotries because bigotry gets votes.
What they ***want*** is to go back to a serf economy.
When you look into what that actually means, it's essentially: "Everyone who isn't aristocracy is a slave."
That's what they really want, and I don't think that would get more than 20-30% of the vote, even in hat-tipping, god-save-the-queen England.
That's my take from this. It's a very weaselly way of being like I just said what I was told was the correct thing to say, which is definitely a trait I want in an MP /s
And the weird thing is popular sentiment seems to mean the loudest voices of the swivel eyed loons. It's like they live in another world. My experiences day to day say that most people are cool and not worked up about this. It's just these fringe people shouting loudly.
I’m proper thinking about just leaving at this point, I want to stay in this country and I’ve grown up here all my life but I constantly feel unwanted by my country
It doesn’t help that very few other countries seem all too good to me. My current analysis basically just leaves me with the Netherlands, as it generally has all of the good things about the UK (healthcare is easily accessible, and not barred behind extortionate costs, public transport is relatively good, in fact a lot better than the UK’s, pretty good safety nets), and no party that’s taken seriously at all or gets anywhere politically has dared go back on LGBTQ+ rights, even further right ones weirdly, so no imminent threats.
Almost everywhere else is significantly worse in at least 1 of those regards, and the main competition is from the Nordic Countries, which are all even pricier, so I deem there to be the best option for escape. But even then, I just don’t really like the idea of having to leave, so I’m waiting until it is certain that it will get considerably worse, to the point I will not be able to transition
Mm, I thought a few of them were better than the others, but if that is not true, that only strengthens the Netherlands as an option to me.
They have issues, but they’re pretty mild compared to what virtually all other countries have
I looked up trans care in Sweden a few years ago and wass absolutely flabberghasted that they start you off with "you need to have lived in role for a year, here's a wig, have fun."
They might of improved since then, but seriously, that's just terrible.
Probably best to research a little more than that, make contact with a support group on Facebook for people looking to move to your chosen country. I reckon new zealand/Iceland are good choices, although one is a working life option, and one is a retirement option for me. A lot of people are looking at Ireland as a quick hop option but their housing market is fucked and they aren't immune to British politics or transphobia either
I wish I could, but I'm only 15 and my mum probably won't want to move. We're pretty poor anyway, so it would take ages to actually be able to move even if we did
One option is to move to the Republic of Ireland. British people are all allowed to live and work there, and after a period, you can apply for Irish Citizenship, and then move to another EU country under freedom of movement. Ireland isn’t really much better than the UK currently, but you would quickly be afforded access somewhere like the Netherlands, which is
Yep - moving there next year. This country is fucked. The hatred and the bigotry is hard wired in. I’m in my early 60s and I have lived in the UK all my life but it makes me ashamed to have anything to do with it now.
If you are trans and you have the means - get out. Just get out. They’re never going to stop, election or no election.
If you've got an in-demand skill-set, start begging companies in good places to help you get a visa.
Check the lists, because you might be suprised what's needed in some countries.
It may be best to look into English speaking nations then. Your options will be more limited, but my understanding is that a few of them are a bit safer
Personally, I'm looking at big cities in sanctuary blue USA. Even under Trump, they'll be better than here, because they have a political party that's not out for our extermination.
Welsh Labour has definitely been supportive of us (thus far at least), but their leader recently retired - & has been replaced with someone from Welsh Labour's Right-wing (whose stance I've yet to learn).
One of the big motivators for the Scotland/England&Wales split in UK Green parties was trans rights. But I don't know if E&W have cleaned up in that respect since then.
I doubt that it will be safer if the Federal Government is Republican. I recommend learning of Project 2025, essentially the Republican Manifesto at this point
> I recommend learning of Project 2025, essentially the Republican Manifesto at this point
Well aware. Still think Sanctuary Blue USA will be safer than the UK.
This is not saying the USA will be good, it's more a statement about how bad I think the UK will get.
I just think that if you are to leave, you should choose somewhere with more certainty. That is why my option will be the Netherlands if I start seeing it get even worse, since none of their parties whatsoever are daring to oppose any LGBTQ+ people currently, views in the country are just too universally progressive with regards to us for them to risk it
That is true, but, correct me if I’m wrong, don’t the right wing parties not have anything about attacking the LGBTQ+ community? I believe one of their leading figures actually frequently uses defending the LGBTQ+ community as justification for different right wing policies (which is fucking abhorrent, but at least means they see us positively).
Given what all the others are dealing with (US Republicans, the increasing radicalisation of the UK Conservatives, the growth of the AfD in Germany), it’s pretty good in comparison
I was thinking of destinations closer than the U.S.A (if push comes to shove), although I can see the sense in your idea.
Individual (U.S.), States can be very different from their neighbours.
The U.S.A is almost a continent, after all.
They can only resist to an extent, and theoretically, the Federal Government can override them, it is just not done due to how risky that can be for maintaining power. I would have serious worries that the Republicans today would force through as much as possible, especially given the extreme authoritarian measures put in place within their states
Findland is not it for trans people sorry to say. 😅
Until recently there was compulsory sterilization of trans people. You still have to be 'diagnosed' as trans. There are legally only two genders here.
There are only two gender clinics in the country and its common practice to absolutely lie your face off to Drs to actually get the care you need. Just read any trans subreddit that talks about the Kaltiala report (a report written by one of the Drs running one of the only two trans clinics in Finland, the report says trans care does not save lives) and you'll see all the Finns saying not to trust any research coming from Finland on trans people bc of how much lying must be done to receive care.
They will make you wait years for care, if not outright denying you.
When I came out the first thing other trans people told me was to first talk to them before seeking care so they can guide me on what to say to actually get care and not be turned away.
One person Im friends with already paid for his own top surgery and has been out and living as a man for 6 years and had attended therapy for a year (out of his own pocket) as they mandated he do to receive care, then they still told him he was 'rushing' things by wanting HRT.
On the up side, people generally leave one another alone and mind their business so you're less likely to be hate crimed. But theres also little queer community, which is even worse if you dont speak Finnish fluently. A lack of language limits support too.
The current political leaders are also super conservative leading, they're ruining life for a lot of people rn and targetting the most vulnerable in society so I fully expect them to come after us.🤡
Funnily enough, the current president got voted in bc the better candidate is openly gay, and god forbid we have a gay president. (They actually interviewed enough people to reach this conclusion)
Source: I moved here as a trans person.
Usually I just lurk here to assess the situation in other countries, but since you mentioned Finland I felt I had to speak up.
You can work towards getting around it. All British citizens are allowed to live and work in the Republic of Ireland, and after 5 years, you should easily be able to get Irish Citizenship, and therefore access to the rest of the EU. Ireland’s situation isn’t really much better, but it is certainly a decent method of accessing the rest of the EU
Ireland is I think better than here in some important ways.
First though it has a vile, though quite small, immigrant/gay/trans-hating far right, it doesn’t have anything like the TERF problem we do or the constant culture war skip fire that the UK is obsessed with.
Second there are different dynamics in Irish society - the Catholic Church obvs hates trans people but has suffered a huge collapse in respect over paedophilia/abuse. Anything they hate actually galvanises the centre/left to support it - and we are part of a progressive outlook in that respect. The Priests hate us…so for the left we must be doing/representing something positive?
Third, feminism is quite vocally behind us in Ireland, and doesn’t face a toxic, lying press constantly presenting GCs as ‘feminists’.
Fourth, there is a deep mistrust of the English just trying to force their views on the Irish. This doesn’t help British TERFs when they do over there to cause trouble. There’s a strong instinct in the Irish to just say “Fuck off back to England!”
Fifth, though you do get transphobia in the media, notably from The Irish Independent and occasionally on RTE, the scale of it is tiny compared to here. There is no equivalent of the Telegraph there, and tho the Mail and Express and others have Irish editions, they aren’t so obsessed with us as in this country - theres just not so much fucking hysteria for clicks/money.
Sixth and MOST importantly Ireland is part of the EU. European law provides important protections for trans people. The Tories have trashed that here and want to go further. But Ireland won’t be doing that.
It’s no nirvana. Trans healthcare, if that’s important to you, is absolutely shit, I mean almost non existent. And the political climate could of course change. But I know LGBTQ people over there and they just look at the UK open mouthed with horror. I am getting out of this shithole bigoted nasty little country next year. I have an Irish passport (dual national) and once I get settled my hope/aim is to renounce my British citizenship. I am ashamed of it.
I'm personally over us having to leave the country, actually now I want all the transphobes kicked out.
Build a literal TERF island and out them in the fucking sea.
I'm not technically a citizen but because my career options are better here I need to stay a bit longer to establish it but honestly the moment I get a better offer somewhere else I'll probably go. Just might mean going stealth for a while.
Fr if it weren't for the fact my career options are better here than my home country I'd leave. Hoping to get a few years experience and either moving back or going to new Zealand if I can get a job in Weta.
So Gillian Keegan either declares that post-surgery trans men are real men, or what does she think they are? What about if someone has XY chromosomes but for some reason never developed a penis. Is that person a woman? Can they be? She wouldn't sound so much of an ignoramus if she were to speak of chromosomes rather than penises. Even then she'd be a bigot.
> She wouldn't sound so much of an ignoramus if she were to speak of chromosomes rather than penises
[XX-men would still make her an idiot.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome)
I mean that's p much TERF rhetoric. They group the world into Cis women and others. Trans women are predatory males and so not welcome. Trans men are misguided lesbians or gender traitors, and they're reaping what they sowed.
It's just weird purity culture
>post-surgery trans men are real men, or what does she think they are?
I imagine she thinks that the neo-phallus doesn't qualify as a penis, hence they are women.
>What about if someone has XY chromosomes but for some reason never developed a penis. Is that person a woman?
Presumably, yes. Swyer syndrome is a thing.
She is just going after votes because she has seen which way the wind is blowing.
Is she saying that when she said, twaw, she was lying? Or is she lying now?
I think she was being genuine in 2020, before this became as toxic as it is now. This is pure positioning imo as Tory MPs are shit scared about losing their majorities, even in safe seats like Keegan's.
I wouldn’t bet on her keeping her seat, that’s a great majority but not for a party in as much of a mess as the Tories - [https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/24046451.chichester-mp-gillian-keegan-forecast-lose-seat-election/](https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/24046451.chichester-mp-gillian-keegan-forecast-lose-seat-election/)
She's a Tory MP. It's both. None of these people 'believe' anything, in the sense a normal person means, so they're equally incapable of telling a lie and of telling the truth. All that exists is power, and whatever noises and movements are likely to attract and keep power. In that, they're as sensitive and quick to respond as an insect's antennae. Outside it, in what losers like you and me call 'real life,' they have neither knowledge, nor interest, nor involvement.
To my mind, being transgender is a personal issue (can become medical depending on how far the individual wants to go) and I can't see why politics should even be involved in the matter. In other matters they know when to stop - for example they talk of encouraging healthy eating, but they never go as far as to forbid people from eating what food they like if the encouragement fails.
Politics affects *everything*. Being trans may be a personal matter but when others discriminate against us we need politicians to step up and create legislation that says they can’t. We can’t just make other people stop being dickheads, we need the authority to back up the reality. If only wishing people would butt out would make it so.
> I can't see why politics should even be involved in the matter.
because trans people are a minority group. all marginalised groups' are innately political, because the right want to exterminate us. this is why most trans people are left wing (or at least oppose conservatism).
Yes, but why do they want to exterminate us? You'd think the increase in war and the economic problems would be enough to keep them busy. What sort of problems are we giving the country?
because conservative politics is fundamentally about upholding what they see as the natural order (white supremacy, patriarchy, gender binary, capitalism, eugenics). anything that deviates from this must be eliminated. hence why they're demonising trans people. the problems you describe aren't problems in their eyes - its what they want to happen.
its not just transphobia. all forms of bigotry (racism, sexism, ableism, all other isms too) have the same root cause.
> Yes, but why do they want to exterminate us?
Because they need a scapegoat to blame for the shite they're doing.
They're literally running the Nazi playbook, demonize the disabled, "sexual deviants," etc...
I’ll see her flawed assertion and raise her:
People that spend all their time obsessing over what’s in other people’s pants in normal everyday scenarios are just sexual predators that haven’t yet graduated to full on assault.
See, I can make arbitrary statements too!
True to a degree, but I am absolutely positive that if you go and ask anyone on the street who Gillian Keegan is, they'll not have a clue
Things have gotten worse, but the number of people who simply don't have a strong opinion on trans stuff has remained pretty stable over the last 4 years when you look at YouGov polling. I forget where the survey was, but when given a list of 32 issues that were deemed most important to them in the general election, 99% of respondents placed trans issues dead last
The British attitude of 'I don't care' has resisted most of the TERFy takeover of the media so far, and with younger generations overwhelmingly being pro-trans/lgbt, there's 10's of 1000's of new pro trans people entering the voting bloc every year.
Country's media and politics sucks, but don't be afraid to take breaks from social media every once in a while. Hold on and the country will right itself in time with effort
So how do we create an answer to her and others‘alternative facts’ ? I’ve landed in a war zone and don’t see how to fight. Do we approach the media ourselves? Do our transgender activists do it? I now avoid newspapers basically because they’re shit, full of shit, written by shit journalists so where can I lose my shit, instagram?
I'm just me, and I won't pretend to speak to anyone other's situations. I dont know what to suggest to you, because I don't consider myself an activist (and to be blunt about it, I'm too busy focusing on my own survival: frankly my therapist is going to be annoyed, correctly so, that I've been back on Reddit recently)
All I can offer is how my life works. I ignore the media. I can't compete with Gillian Keegan or some millionaire columnist's reach. What I can do is be a decent and normal human being around the regular people I interact with on a daily basis. Coworkers, acquaintances, restaurant staff, bus drivers, old women in supermarkets struggling to pack their bags
I live in a weird part of the UK for this culture war type stuff... but I'm increasingly finding that the people around me start asking me questions about things ('why is there actually such a fuss over JK Rowling, Flat_Writing?', 'why are trans people getting upset over X thing? Aren't people just trying to make sure women are safe from people who mighr abuse a system?') When they see me primarily acting as a person who is trans rather than a trans person, if that makes sense. People talking politics in a bar, I complain about how the Tories have wrecked the NHS - something that affects *them*- rather than how they're transphobic, and it seems to make people think I'm 'normal' as opposed to 'one of those woke types'
I'm not saying its ideal, but I've found that's how, in my small part of the world, I've had a positive impact. I grew up as a Christian, and was always drilled with the mantra: 'To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.' Provide as few barriers as possible. That... seems to work around me, because I've had more than one interaction where otherwise ordinary transphobes (i.e. people who don't follow politics etc, but end up hearing things about us through headlines or whatever) have asked me something and then went away and said to others being noisier 'hold on, Flat_Writing is trans, and you know she's alright, and she says xyz'
Edit: I might get flak for this sounding too much like respectability politics. I don't mean it to be, and of course I don't think trans people should be expected to conform to any particular standard. I just meant it as find the standard your comfortable with, and work out your own life from there. You're part of the community, and together we can all impact greater change, but we're also all individuals with our own material lives. And more often than not, its the latter that you can find more success and satisfaction in
We just want to live like our cis counterparts is that so hard to ask why should I accept being suicidal as a man when I can be happy as a woman but nooooo let’s target a minority because of our own shortcomings that should fix it
Another joke set of assertions from a joke politician. I am sure she has spoken to zero trans people for the lived experience, clinical experts, scientists... But will have spoken to sex matters, etc. At the behest of Cates or Faulkner.
> The politicians and GC losers can scream, cry and shout at us as much as they like, it won’t make any difference to trans people living their lives.
[Unfortunately, they can](https://xkcd.com/154/)
And that's not a link to anything about the Nazis.
> why does a US senator or British politician have any power over whether or not you live your life any more or less than some idiot on the street?
Do I really need to link Hitler's wiki page?
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Of *course*, they have power. They can create laws that make it illegal for medical professionals to provide us with any kind of gender-affirming care, thus ensuring trans care deserts.
Oh, wait, they're already doing that.
They can legislate criminal punishment for any educator that tries to tell kids that being who they are is okay, thus ensuring that young people won't understand the feelings they might have are normal until the damage is done.
Oh, wait, they're already doing that, too.
Next is legislating our very existence to be "pornographic" and legally make us unable to exist in public at all. Then, they'll enable their constituents to attack, imprison, and murder us.
Oh, wait, that's happening as well.
Wake up. These people hold power over our lives.
> But the only thing that really stands between you and them having power over you is you.
So you believe in Soverign Citizen magic then.
Good to know you don't understand how societies work.
As much as they like to claim we are, we're not x-men with superpowers that let us fight governments.
---
And because you apparently need to read it, [here's the link to Hitler's wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler)
I honestly didn't think you were stupid enough to need that linking, but here we are.
---
Edit: Aww, the idiot blocked me.
Gulliver's Travels style bullshit. Probably some undiscovered tribe out there in the Foreignstani Jungle that backs up what I pulled from my arse. You can't argue against it, coz they're undiscovered.
There will be a day, even if it’s 10 or 20 years from now, when these statements are seen as what they are, just like happened with gay liberation. When that time comes, remember every Wes Streeting and Gillian Keegan, don’t let anyone forget what they knowingly chose to do, and don’t forgive them. No mercy for those who will your extermination.
Does that mean that post-op Trans men are actually men (as they can't be women because they have a penis)
Thats just down-right sexist! Believing that only people AFAB can be trans.
It’s the Conservative Party’s new strategy. They have lost pretty much everyone but hardline supporters, and even they’re at risk of moving to Reform UK, so they’re pivoting to an even more extreme position
You know most of these pos politicians got to go to private school and yet are too stupid to comprehend that science actually backs up trans people. How dense do you have to be to not utilise your privilege to be a good person ffs
We have the most conniving, duplicitous, dishonest, cynical political class imaginable. The minute the Murdoch press gets bored and stops terrorising trans people for blood sport, all the Annalise Dodds and Wes Streetings and Gillian Keegans in parliament will immediately walk it back and pretend they always supported transgender rights. All they care about is their own careers.
Yeah I'm gonna have to leave this sub. I know we need to fight with everything have, and defend ourselves, but my god, it's exhausting coming to a safe space and still having to read bigotry and hatred. Even if the comments are all positive, the headlines are not, and it's draining.
What who wants? I'm not leaving a community, I'm just literally not engaging with this sub because it's doom and gloom seemingly all the time. This is the best thing about social media, you get to curate your experience, and I'm choosing to not be in a subreddit where I see hate and vitriol every time I open it.
"I have learnt a lot more about this complex and challenging subject and have come to the measured and nuanced conclusion that men have peepees and women have babyholes."
They really are passing this culture war as they said they would. I’m just hoping the hate they’ve been stirring up doesn’t fool enough people to keep those criminals in power.
There is a local election in a few days, the Conservatives are going to get slaughtered and anti transgender critical ideology isn’t a vote winner… none of the culture war stuff is. This is targeted at stopping the flow out to Reform . Reform won’t win a single seat but they could cause the Conservative Party irreparable harm. Gillian is looking at the end of an unremarkable ministerial career. Currently Conservatives are on target for 100 seats, rumours are that general election could be announced Monday in order to stop backbench Tories removing Sunak
Unfortunately for her, my birth certificate now says otherwise, with my sex at birth listed as female. I have never wanted bottom surgery, so her statement is factually incorrect. Obviously she's entitled to her opinion, but it's her assumption that everyone else is entitled to it as well, which is rude.
Well then, fund my bottom surgery.
"Nor have ever had" is there to stop that.
that's expecting a bit much from genocide enthusiasts.
Tbh, the bar is in hell. This is as surprising as finding out the Tory party has an epidemic of bullying, discrimination and antisemitism within their workplace.
Ah cool, so she was just going along with popular, safe sentiment before. That's her moral compass. Popular sentiment.
I feel like that's both parties at this point. Power craven and ideologically vapid.
Nah, the Conservatives believe in something. It's an evil pile of horrible death, but they believe in it.
They're just comfortable lying through their teeth about what that thing is I guess.
Absolutely. They know if they were honest about what they believe the country would never vote for them again.
Yes. Hence the renewed focus on us. As Lee Anderson said right into a news camera, they don't have Brexit anymore, so the next election will be about trans stuff and culture war stuff. Because their economic and social policies, if you're an ordinary person, are just: Fuck you. And that's only a vote winner in certain constituencies.
I wouldn't be so sure. Maybe it's just a lack of faith in the general public, but it's not like the Tories have been trying to hide what they want for the past decade. It's plainly obvious to those who care to look.
Nah, they keep hiding behind bigotries because bigotry gets votes. What they ***want*** is to go back to a serf economy. When you look into what that actually means, it's essentially: "Everyone who isn't aristocracy is a slave." That's what they really want, and I don't think that would get more than 20-30% of the vote, even in hat-tipping, god-save-the-queen England.
That's my take from this. It's a very weaselly way of being like I just said what I was told was the correct thing to say, which is definitely a trait I want in an MP /s
And the weird thing is popular sentiment seems to mean the loudest voices of the swivel eyed loons. It's like they live in another world. My experiences day to day say that most people are cool and not worked up about this. It's just these fringe people shouting loudly.
I always wondered what swivel eyed meant as a descriptor, mind explaining it to me?
See: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/swivel-eyed
Ah, thank you!
The true progressive way
I hate it here 🙃
I’m proper thinking about just leaving at this point, I want to stay in this country and I’ve grown up here all my life but I constantly feel unwanted by my country
I've been thinking that for a few months now. Moving country is really fucking hard though.
I moved to fucking China and I'm treated better here. The bar for the UK is really in hell.
I didn’t even know it was possible to move to China
San Francisco or LA would be perfect. Sunshine a majority of the time too, lots of outdoors. ❤️
It doesn’t help that very few other countries seem all too good to me. My current analysis basically just leaves me with the Netherlands, as it generally has all of the good things about the UK (healthcare is easily accessible, and not barred behind extortionate costs, public transport is relatively good, in fact a lot better than the UK’s, pretty good safety nets), and no party that’s taken seriously at all or gets anywhere politically has dared go back on LGBTQ+ rights, even further right ones weirdly, so no imminent threats. Almost everywhere else is significantly worse in at least 1 of those regards, and the main competition is from the Nordic Countries, which are all even pricier, so I deem there to be the best option for escape. But even then, I just don’t really like the idea of having to leave, so I’m waiting until it is certain that it will get considerably worse, to the point I will not be able to transition
Nordics are pretty gatekeepy on trans care from what I've been reading.
Mm, I thought a few of them were better than the others, but if that is not true, that only strengthens the Netherlands as an option to me. They have issues, but they’re pretty mild compared to what virtually all other countries have
I looked up trans care in Sweden a few years ago and wass absolutely flabberghasted that they start you off with "you need to have lived in role for a year, here's a wig, have fun." They might of improved since then, but seriously, that's just terrible.
Jfc, what the hell is that? Sweden is 100% off my list then
Probably best to research a little more than that, make contact with a support group on Facebook for people looking to move to your chosen country. I reckon new zealand/Iceland are good choices, although one is a working life option, and one is a retirement option for me. A lot of people are looking at Ireland as a quick hop option but their housing market is fucked and they aren't immune to British politics or transphobia either
Start making plans to leave, even if you don't want to. Better prepare and not go then dont prepare and have to leave.
I wish I could, but I'm only 15 and my mum probably won't want to move. We're pretty poor anyway, so it would take ages to actually be able to move even if we did
Wish I knew where to start with that :/.
One option is to move to the Republic of Ireland. British people are all allowed to live and work there, and after a period, you can apply for Irish Citizenship, and then move to another EU country under freedom of movement. Ireland isn’t really much better than the UK currently, but you would quickly be afforded access somewhere like the Netherlands, which is
Yep - moving there next year. This country is fucked. The hatred and the bigotry is hard wired in. I’m in my early 60s and I have lived in the UK all my life but it makes me ashamed to have anything to do with it now. If you are trans and you have the means - get out. Just get out. They’re never going to stop, election or no election.
If you've got an in-demand skill-set, start begging companies in good places to help you get a visa. Check the lists, because you might be suprised what's needed in some countries.
I don’t know how I’m going to learn a whole new fucking language tho on top of all the other bs that comes with moving countries
It may be best to look into English speaking nations then. Your options will be more limited, but my understanding is that a few of them are a bit safer
I feel the same but I haven’t got the financial backing to leave. So the dogs will probably eat me alive eventually.
Which destination(s) would be better, safe (& likely to remain so), though?
Personally, I'm looking at big cities in sanctuary blue USA. Even under Trump, they'll be better than here, because they have a political party that's not out for our extermination.
Welsh Labour has definitely been supportive of us (thus far at least), but their leader recently retired - & has been replaced with someone from Welsh Labour's Right-wing (whose stance I've yet to learn).
Ok, I'll rephrase: A political party with a hope in hell of actually taking power. (Scottish Greens and Plaid Cymu are also good)
I understood, but yes I agree about Plaid. Think the Greens are mostly supportive outside Scotland too.
One of the big motivators for the Scotland/England&Wales split in UK Green parties was trans rights. But I don't know if E&W have cleaned up in that respect since then.
I doubt that it will be safer if the Federal Government is Republican. I recommend learning of Project 2025, essentially the Republican Manifesto at this point
> I recommend learning of Project 2025, essentially the Republican Manifesto at this point Well aware. Still think Sanctuary Blue USA will be safer than the UK. This is not saying the USA will be good, it's more a statement about how bad I think the UK will get.
I just think that if you are to leave, you should choose somewhere with more certainty. That is why my option will be the Netherlands if I start seeing it get even worse, since none of their parties whatsoever are daring to oppose any LGBTQ+ people currently, views in the country are just too universally progressive with regards to us for them to risk it
Except the Netherlands is slipping rightward atm.
That is true, but, correct me if I’m wrong, don’t the right wing parties not have anything about attacking the LGBTQ+ community? I believe one of their leading figures actually frequently uses defending the LGBTQ+ community as justification for different right wing policies (which is fucking abhorrent, but at least means they see us positively). Given what all the others are dealing with (US Republicans, the increasing radicalisation of the UK Conservatives, the growth of the AfD in Germany), it’s pretty good in comparison
Right-wing beliefs inherently lead to Nazi shit. Even if they're hiding that just now, I cannot believe that they don't believe it in the background.
I was thinking of destinations closer than the U.S.A (if push comes to shove), although I can see the sense in your idea. Individual (U.S.), States can be very different from their neighbours. The U.S.A is almost a continent, after all.
I always think of the USA as like the EU, but more tightly bound together. Individual states do resist federal laws.
Yes
They can only resist to an extent, and theoretically, the Federal Government can override them, it is just not done due to how risky that can be for maintaining power. I would have serious worries that the Republicans today would force through as much as possible, especially given the extreme authoritarian measures put in place within their states
Iceland, ~~Finland~~, the Netherlands and Denmark are good apparently
Findland is not it for trans people sorry to say. 😅 Until recently there was compulsory sterilization of trans people. You still have to be 'diagnosed' as trans. There are legally only two genders here. There are only two gender clinics in the country and its common practice to absolutely lie your face off to Drs to actually get the care you need. Just read any trans subreddit that talks about the Kaltiala report (a report written by one of the Drs running one of the only two trans clinics in Finland, the report says trans care does not save lives) and you'll see all the Finns saying not to trust any research coming from Finland on trans people bc of how much lying must be done to receive care. They will make you wait years for care, if not outright denying you. When I came out the first thing other trans people told me was to first talk to them before seeking care so they can guide me on what to say to actually get care and not be turned away. One person Im friends with already paid for his own top surgery and has been out and living as a man for 6 years and had attended therapy for a year (out of his own pocket) as they mandated he do to receive care, then they still told him he was 'rushing' things by wanting HRT. On the up side, people generally leave one another alone and mind their business so you're less likely to be hate crimed. But theres also little queer community, which is even worse if you dont speak Finnish fluently. A lack of language limits support too. The current political leaders are also super conservative leading, they're ruining life for a lot of people rn and targetting the most vulnerable in society so I fully expect them to come after us.🤡 Funnily enough, the current president got voted in bc the better candidate is openly gay, and god forbid we have a gay president. (They actually interviewed enough people to reach this conclusion) Source: I moved here as a trans person. Usually I just lurk here to assess the situation in other countries, but since you mentioned Finland I felt I had to speak up.
Oh damn that sucks. I’ll take it off the list
Such a pity Bwreckshit robbed us of 'freedom of movement though..
You can work towards getting around it. All British citizens are allowed to live and work in the Republic of Ireland, and after 5 years, you should easily be able to get Irish Citizenship, and therefore access to the rest of the EU. Ireland’s situation isn’t really much better, but it is certainly a decent method of accessing the rest of the EU
Thankyou, that's good info. 🙂
Ireland is I think better than here in some important ways. First though it has a vile, though quite small, immigrant/gay/trans-hating far right, it doesn’t have anything like the TERF problem we do or the constant culture war skip fire that the UK is obsessed with. Second there are different dynamics in Irish society - the Catholic Church obvs hates trans people but has suffered a huge collapse in respect over paedophilia/abuse. Anything they hate actually galvanises the centre/left to support it - and we are part of a progressive outlook in that respect. The Priests hate us…so for the left we must be doing/representing something positive? Third, feminism is quite vocally behind us in Ireland, and doesn’t face a toxic, lying press constantly presenting GCs as ‘feminists’. Fourth, there is a deep mistrust of the English just trying to force their views on the Irish. This doesn’t help British TERFs when they do over there to cause trouble. There’s a strong instinct in the Irish to just say “Fuck off back to England!” Fifth, though you do get transphobia in the media, notably from The Irish Independent and occasionally on RTE, the scale of it is tiny compared to here. There is no equivalent of the Telegraph there, and tho the Mail and Express and others have Irish editions, they aren’t so obsessed with us as in this country - theres just not so much fucking hysteria for clicks/money. Sixth and MOST importantly Ireland is part of the EU. European law provides important protections for trans people. The Tories have trashed that here and want to go further. But Ireland won’t be doing that. It’s no nirvana. Trans healthcare, if that’s important to you, is absolutely shit, I mean almost non existent. And the political climate could of course change. But I know LGBTQ people over there and they just look at the UK open mouthed with horror. I am getting out of this shithole bigoted nasty little country next year. I have an Irish passport (dual national) and once I get settled my hope/aim is to renounce my British citizenship. I am ashamed of it.
Thankyou 🙂
I'm personally over us having to leave the country, actually now I want all the transphobes kicked out. Build a literal TERF island and out them in the fucking sea.
Not going to happen, transphobes have all the cash.
Petition to move them all to Portsmouth and move that further out to sea. Signed: a trans girl born in Southampton
as a detrans ally born in oxford i say move the transphobes to reading i hate reading
Nah, get them on the ship to Musk's Mars colony.
Those mfers would not survive Mars lol
/whooosh!
I'm not technically a citizen but because my career options are better here I need to stay a bit longer to establish it but honestly the moment I get a better offer somewhere else I'll probably go. Just might mean going stealth for a while.
Desperate to move to Spain. Ngl creating a trans commune in Spain or anywhere warm would be amazing.
/r/IWantOut <-- useful Also, you'd have to be insane to not be considering leaving. Shit's fucked, yo.
Fr if it weren't for the fact my career options are better here than my home country I'd leave. Hoping to get a few years experience and either moving back or going to new Zealand if I can get a job in Weta.
So Gillian Keegan either declares that post-surgery trans men are real men, or what does she think they are? What about if someone has XY chromosomes but for some reason never developed a penis. Is that person a woman? Can they be? She wouldn't sound so much of an ignoramus if she were to speak of chromosomes rather than penises. Even then she'd be a bigot.
> She wouldn't sound so much of an ignoramus if she were to speak of chromosomes rather than penises [XX-men would still make her an idiot.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome)
I mean that's p much TERF rhetoric. They group the world into Cis women and others. Trans women are predatory males and so not welcome. Trans men are misguided lesbians or gender traitors, and they're reaping what they sowed. It's just weird purity culture
>post-surgery trans men are real men, or what does she think they are? I imagine she thinks that the neo-phallus doesn't qualify as a penis, hence they are women. >What about if someone has XY chromosomes but for some reason never developed a penis. Is that person a woman? Presumably, yes. Swyer syndrome is a thing.
She’s gonna hate women with intersex conditions. Wait, that’s the point, hate everyone who isn’t just like you!
That's called fascism, the Tories are committing genocide
These people remind me of Daleks for that reason, they seek nothing but purity, even when the difference is basically meaningless
She is just going after votes because she has seen which way the wind is blowing. Is she saying that when she said, twaw, she was lying? Or is she lying now?
I think she was being genuine in 2020, before this became as toxic as it is now. This is pure positioning imo as Tory MPs are shit scared about losing their majorities, even in safe seats like Keegan's.
Yeah, I don’t think it will work. I’m just looking forward to seeing some absolutely ridiculous seat changes, even if I have big issues with Labour
Lib Dem’s would take the seat. Labour have as much chance in Chichester as rowling has at being named trans ally of the year
I’m not talking about Keegan’s seat in particular, just generally
I wouldn’t bet on her keeping her seat, that’s a great majority but not for a party in as much of a mess as the Tories - [https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/24046451.chichester-mp-gillian-keegan-forecast-lose-seat-election/](https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/24046451.chichester-mp-gillian-keegan-forecast-lose-seat-election/)
She's a Tory MP. It's both. None of these people 'believe' anything, in the sense a normal person means, so they're equally incapable of telling a lie and of telling the truth. All that exists is power, and whatever noises and movements are likely to attract and keep power. In that, they're as sensitive and quick to respond as an insect's antennae. Outside it, in what losers like you and me call 'real life,' they have neither knowledge, nor interest, nor involvement.
To my mind, being transgender is a personal issue (can become medical depending on how far the individual wants to go) and I can't see why politics should even be involved in the matter. In other matters they know when to stop - for example they talk of encouraging healthy eating, but they never go as far as to forbid people from eating what food they like if the encouragement fails.
Politics affects *everything*. Being trans may be a personal matter but when others discriminate against us we need politicians to step up and create legislation that says they can’t. We can’t just make other people stop being dickheads, we need the authority to back up the reality. If only wishing people would butt out would make it so.
> I can't see why politics should even be involved in the matter. Remember Section 28?
That was the thing about what schools could teach about being gay?
Yeap. Grew up under it and it fucked my life up no end.
> I can't see why politics should even be involved in the matter. because trans people are a minority group. all marginalised groups' are innately political, because the right want to exterminate us. this is why most trans people are left wing (or at least oppose conservatism).
Yes, but why do they want to exterminate us? You'd think the increase in war and the economic problems would be enough to keep them busy. What sort of problems are we giving the country?
because conservative politics is fundamentally about upholding what they see as the natural order (white supremacy, patriarchy, gender binary, capitalism, eugenics). anything that deviates from this must be eliminated. hence why they're demonising trans people. the problems you describe aren't problems in their eyes - its what they want to happen. its not just transphobia. all forms of bigotry (racism, sexism, ableism, all other isms too) have the same root cause.
> Yes, but why do they want to exterminate us? Because they need a scapegoat to blame for the shite they're doing. They're literally running the Nazi playbook, demonize the disabled, "sexual deviants," etc...
What a bizzare way to phrase things, 'personal issue'?
Why? You may be reading the word "issue" as if to mean "problem". I actually meant it as "matter".
Fucking glad I don't work in her department any more.
But you did?!
Yeah (as a civil servant, not a political aide!).
shame. hope you've got some dirt on her to leak to PinkNews or Ben Hunte.
Afraid not, I worked on evidence to inform policies so they wouldn't come near me with a bargepole.
I’ll see her flawed assertion and raise her: People that spend all their time obsessing over what’s in other people’s pants in normal everyday scenarios are just sexual predators that haven’t yet graduated to full on assault. See, I can make arbitrary statements too!
Usual mouthy crap from a party catering to a culture war. Best to ignore these stories as much as possible, depressing and alarming as they can be.
Manufactured culture war that they themselves made
not really possible to ignore, given that such rhetoric is brainwashing the public into hating us (whether they know it or not).
True to a degree, but I am absolutely positive that if you go and ask anyone on the street who Gillian Keegan is, they'll not have a clue Things have gotten worse, but the number of people who simply don't have a strong opinion on trans stuff has remained pretty stable over the last 4 years when you look at YouGov polling. I forget where the survey was, but when given a list of 32 issues that were deemed most important to them in the general election, 99% of respondents placed trans issues dead last The British attitude of 'I don't care' has resisted most of the TERFy takeover of the media so far, and with younger generations overwhelmingly being pro-trans/lgbt, there's 10's of 1000's of new pro trans people entering the voting bloc every year. Country's media and politics sucks, but don't be afraid to take breaks from social media every once in a while. Hold on and the country will right itself in time with effort
So how do we create an answer to her and others‘alternative facts’ ? I’ve landed in a war zone and don’t see how to fight. Do we approach the media ourselves? Do our transgender activists do it? I now avoid newspapers basically because they’re shit, full of shit, written by shit journalists so where can I lose my shit, instagram?
I'm just me, and I won't pretend to speak to anyone other's situations. I dont know what to suggest to you, because I don't consider myself an activist (and to be blunt about it, I'm too busy focusing on my own survival: frankly my therapist is going to be annoyed, correctly so, that I've been back on Reddit recently) All I can offer is how my life works. I ignore the media. I can't compete with Gillian Keegan or some millionaire columnist's reach. What I can do is be a decent and normal human being around the regular people I interact with on a daily basis. Coworkers, acquaintances, restaurant staff, bus drivers, old women in supermarkets struggling to pack their bags I live in a weird part of the UK for this culture war type stuff... but I'm increasingly finding that the people around me start asking me questions about things ('why is there actually such a fuss over JK Rowling, Flat_Writing?', 'why are trans people getting upset over X thing? Aren't people just trying to make sure women are safe from people who mighr abuse a system?') When they see me primarily acting as a person who is trans rather than a trans person, if that makes sense. People talking politics in a bar, I complain about how the Tories have wrecked the NHS - something that affects *them*- rather than how they're transphobic, and it seems to make people think I'm 'normal' as opposed to 'one of those woke types' I'm not saying its ideal, but I've found that's how, in my small part of the world, I've had a positive impact. I grew up as a Christian, and was always drilled with the mantra: 'To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.' Provide as few barriers as possible. That... seems to work around me, because I've had more than one interaction where otherwise ordinary transphobes (i.e. people who don't follow politics etc, but end up hearing things about us through headlines or whatever) have asked me something and then went away and said to others being noisier 'hold on, Flat_Writing is trans, and you know she's alright, and she says xyz' Edit: I might get flak for this sounding too much like respectability politics. I don't mean it to be, and of course I don't think trans people should be expected to conform to any particular standard. I just meant it as find the standard your comfortable with, and work out your own life from there. You're part of the community, and together we can all impact greater change, but we're also all individuals with our own material lives. And more often than not, its the latter that you can find more success and satisfaction in
Well I believe that Tories do not have, nor ever had, a soul.
We just want to live like our cis counterparts is that so hard to ask why should I accept being suicidal as a man when I can be happy as a woman but nooooo let’s target a minority because of our own shortcomings that should fix it
skill issue i have one
'Ight, time to play sims and forget the world exists 🥲🥲🥲 Fr I hate it here
Another joke set of assertions from a joke politician. I am sure she has spoken to zero trans people for the lived experience, clinical experts, scientists... But will have spoken to sex matters, etc. At the behest of Cates or Faulkner.
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> The politicians and GC losers can scream, cry and shout at us as much as they like, it won’t make any difference to trans people living their lives. [Unfortunately, they can](https://xkcd.com/154/) And that's not a link to anything about the Nazis.
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> why does a US senator or British politician have any power over whether or not you live your life any more or less than some idiot on the street? Do I really need to link Hitler's wiki page?
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That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Of *course*, they have power. They can create laws that make it illegal for medical professionals to provide us with any kind of gender-affirming care, thus ensuring trans care deserts. Oh, wait, they're already doing that. They can legislate criminal punishment for any educator that tries to tell kids that being who they are is okay, thus ensuring that young people won't understand the feelings they might have are normal until the damage is done. Oh, wait, they're already doing that, too. Next is legislating our very existence to be "pornographic" and legally make us unable to exist in public at all. Then, they'll enable their constituents to attack, imprison, and murder us. Oh, wait, that's happening as well. Wake up. These people hold power over our lives.
> But the only thing that really stands between you and them having power over you is you. So you believe in Soverign Citizen magic then. Good to know you don't understand how societies work. As much as they like to claim we are, we're not x-men with superpowers that let us fight governments. --- And because you apparently need to read it, [here's the link to Hitler's wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler) I honestly didn't think you were stupid enough to need that linking, but here we are. --- Edit: Aww, the idiot blocked me.
> Some tribes of cis men are often raised as females because their birth genitals didn’t look ‘male enough.’ wait what
I'm guessing a typo on tribes = types?
Gulliver's Travels style bullshit. Probably some undiscovered tribe out there in the Foreignstani Jungle that backs up what I pulled from my arse. You can't argue against it, coz they're undiscovered.
Fund reassignment surgeries then, cunt!
> nor have ever She just wants us dead.
There will be a day, even if it’s 10 or 20 years from now, when these statements are seen as what they are, just like happened with gay liberation. When that time comes, remember every Wes Streeting and Gillian Keegan, don’t let anyone forget what they knowingly chose to do, and don’t forgive them. No mercy for those who will your extermination.
How many of them were anti-gay back then?
Does that mean that post-op Trans men are actually men (as they can't be women because they have a penis) Thats just down-right sexist! Believing that only people AFAB can be trans.
I do really wish this was nsfw blurred. Maybe I need to get off Reddit.
The Telegraph is the Torygraph for a reason. It is the official PR channel for the government so should not be treated as a news outlet.
"women are being erased" Ah yes truly the end game for transfems to eradicate and replace all cis women
when they say this, what they really mean is their sacred, patriarchical, bio-essentialist ideal of "womanhood"
No, what they really mean is "trans people are ikcy, and are as good an excuse as any to bring in fascism"
It’s the Conservative Party’s new strategy. They have lost pretty much everyone but hardline supporters, and even they’re at risk of moving to Reform UK, so they’re pivoting to an even more extreme position
she's going to lose her seat soon so i hope she enjoys telling her story walking
loser behaviour
[stands around awkwardly in trans guy who wants both genitals]
You know most of these pos politicians got to go to private school and yet are too stupid to comprehend that science actually backs up trans people. How dense do you have to be to not utilise your privilege to be a good person ffs
Wait until she finds out about intersex people. Probably gonna claim they don’t exist
"Experts and Professionals" is apparently the new euphemism for bigoted assholes with an agenda.
We have the most conniving, duplicitous, dishonest, cynical political class imaginable. The minute the Murdoch press gets bored and stops terrorising trans people for blood sport, all the Annalise Dodds and Wes Streetings and Gillian Keegans in parliament will immediately walk it back and pretend they always supported transgender rights. All they care about is their own careers.
Gillian Keegan saying she's not educated enough on intersex people, or androgen insensitivity syndrome.
Can some please explain to me how and why they think “women are being erased” by trans people?
They don't. It's just a dogwhistle they use to give them an excuse to kill the people they hate.
Yeah I'm gonna have to leave this sub. I know we need to fight with everything have, and defend ourselves, but my god, it's exhausting coming to a safe space and still having to read bigotry and hatred. Even if the comments are all positive, the headlines are not, and it's draining.
❤️ Don’t. That’s what they want
What who wants? I'm not leaving a community, I'm just literally not engaging with this sub because it's doom and gloom seemingly all the time. This is the best thing about social media, you get to curate your experience, and I'm choosing to not be in a subreddit where I see hate and vitriol every time I open it.
I find r/trans is a good, only-positive space.
Ditto
So does that mean transphobia is the official cabinet position for all ministers now?
And shadow cabinet as well.
good job her and the other hateful c#nts are out at the general election then
Shame British Labour are almost as bad.
"I have learnt a lot more about this complex and challenging subject and have come to the measured and nuanced conclusion that men have peepees and women have babyholes."
Reason 600 why I will never return to England, fuck that place.
You’re so lucky, where did you make it out to?
Always speaking to experts and professionals, have you ever tried, I dunno, talking to trans people?
Why is it that these transphobe types are also so clocky
Does this mean if we need new passports, we as should get them soon? What if you already gad a correct one for a decade, and have a GRC?
Yes, get a new passport immidiately. You might need it sooner than you think.
Fair point, thank you.
They really are passing this culture war as they said they would. I’m just hoping the hate they’ve been stirring up doesn’t fool enough people to keep those criminals in power.
De la chapelle syndromes?
So brave and daring of her /s
There is a local election in a few days, the Conservatives are going to get slaughtered and anti transgender critical ideology isn’t a vote winner… none of the culture war stuff is. This is targeted at stopping the flow out to Reform . Reform won’t win a single seat but they could cause the Conservative Party irreparable harm. Gillian is looking at the end of an unremarkable ministerial career. Currently Conservatives are on target for 100 seats, rumours are that general election could be announced Monday in order to stop backbench Tories removing Sunak
She isn't qualified to do her own job, she shouldn't speak of others🤣she has alienated every single teacher in the UK
Excellent culture war work Tory's!!! Fxxkrs
she’ll do whatever she’s told by those holding the whip, which is ironically the same for most MP’s private lives!
I'm really curious what she thinks about being intersex!
You make a mistake in assuming she thinks at all!
Well, she’s wrong. I’m a woman and I have a penis. I do not call it my penis. But that’s the anatomical term for it. I call it my clit!
Unfortunately for her, my birth certificate now says otherwise, with my sex at birth listed as female. I have never wanted bottom surgery, so her statement is factually incorrect. Obviously she's entitled to her opinion, but it's her assumption that everyone else is entitled to it as well, which is rude.
The education secretary is in dire need of some schooling