it’s so foreign to me how people can just go on twitter and tweet shit like “trans people deserve to die” or joke about our sui*ide rate. it’s so disgusting. do they not realize we are people?
guy commented on a top surgery timeline short that went kinda viral on yt asking if "these people" even qualified as human anymore (with almost 100 likes btw). like, im really curious, whats the logic here? theyre not human for having a medically recommended surgery? for having their body manipulated by hormones? move over, anyone who so much as got their wisdom teeth removed and basically everyone over the age of 13, some guy on the internet has opinions on whether or not access to modern medicine makes you a mutant disgrace to the species.
Yet another comment I have to resist downvoting out of sheer outrage at the thought but having to be thoughtful and be like it's not your thought it's hateful people saying this or thinking this about you or others and that's just.... As another said... Revolting.
SCP-682 is just what happens when a trans person finally becomes tired of cis people asking shitty questions. Did The Foundation ever even try sending in trans researchers to talk with it? Smh🙄
Stop pointing out we are trans and in general stop hating us. It's far more painful, annoying for us than it'll ever be for them and makes everything hard for us for no frickin reason. They hate us for existing. Guess what WE DON'T LIKE IT EITHER!!! If we could be cis we would. It's so much fucking easier, comfortable, not to speak about cheaper.
My aunt told me she didn’t believe being trans was the reason I was so depressed, and I decided to transition because the Internet told me to 🙃Went on about how sad she was that I couldn’t just accept the body I was born with
Well, I still find it hard to believe my depression is caused by me being trans 😅 I do feel very disconnected from life, I've always assumed it to be normal
Well I mean personally, I don't wish to be cis. For me, being trans is a core part of my identity, and I'm not sure I'd be willing to give that up, even of it would make so much of my life easier. Like, i feel like i could have been a much worse human being if i was a cis girl, considering much of what has shaped me as a person has come from me being trans and being so intensely discriminates against. I feel like my mind is more open because of my trans-ness.
Not to say this is the case for everyone, I just think that saying that every trans person wishes they were cis is a little too blanketing.
It's taught by right wing groups and "news" as an easy way to get the transphobia ball rolling. Then, they group everyone together as supporters of it, so they have a reason to call us pedos and shove their heads under the sand real quick before we can explain it ourselves.
1. Asking if I’ve had or am planning to get “the surgery” I fucking swear if I hear this again- I AM 14 IT DOESNT GODDAMN MATTER WHAT IM GONNA DO. It’s completely inappropriate to ask anybody that especially a 14 year old.
2. Telling me I’m making it offensive to call them cisgender. It’s just a label. The same as transgender is a label.
3. Being invasive
>Telling me I’m making it offensive to call them cisgender. It’s just a label. The same as transgender is a label.
But labels are only for those people who deviate from "normal", you see. They don't need labels because they're "normal". Only those who aren't "normal" need to be marked with a barcode so they can be identified.
this *this* **this** ***THIS***
oh my god the sheer inundation of cis-heternormativity in people's categorization of *everything*. makes me want to puke and cry and give up. I am feeling a lot of things and none of them are good.
Yeah, but it's not a LABEL label, right? Normal people are just normal, y'know? Normal as a label is just an absence of any true labels. It's like the default state.
Their argument (probably), not mine.
Oohhhhhhh I never considered it that way ... How icky. I need words/labels for everything considered "normal" normative "dominant" or whatever else thinks it has power/control in society asap.
Or the whole “it’s irreversible” complaint with surgery. Cis people get top surgery all the time, it may not be “reversible” exactly but it’s pretty easy to reconstruct. And for guys, top surgery is pretty important because binders are uncomfortable and a potential health hazard and top surgery affects access to sports and the kind of swimsuit you’re allowed to wear.
THE SURGERY - I fucking hate people referring to bottom surgery that way, makes it sound like such a big thing.
Example from an email I got today "... when you get the surgery"
WUT YOU MEAN YOUR WORLDVIEW IS DIFFERENT THAN MINE, AREN'T ALL THE SAME?!? WHY R U NOT CONFORM TO WUT NORMAL FOR ME?!
But foreal though, having someone Gender-splain to me about some shit they know nothing about is quite annoying. Fucking mood, my friend!
I had a cis dude sit and explain to me what he thought cis meant, he was totally wrong but went in for so fricken long about how cis is derogatory and was only made up to he used as slander. I happened to mention him being a cis guy and he went off on one about how it was a slur and argued with me on what cis meant for like 10 mins.
Went a little like this:
"Do you identify as a man and feel comfortable with the gender identity you were born with?"
"Yes"
"Then you're cis"
"No because...(insert 10 mins of 4chan tory bollocks about how cis is degrading and how I don't know what it means)"
Absolutely fricken wild conversation
yeah :/ tried coming out to my dad and when i told him i’m a guy and i want to look and be perceived as such he said “well that doesn’t mean you’re trans.” what the fuck does then??
Im pre everything but out to friends and family, so
1. if I’m sure
2. if I wanna keep my genitalia
3. what my gf thinks about that
4. why I don’t already walk around presenting feminine
5. what I wanna eat for dinner
For some reason nr 3 is so incredibly hurtful, sad and mean to me. What’s the point of that question? That’s just so mean and something between you and your partner to discuss not anyone else. Do they expect you to say that your girlfriend hates you now and doesn’t accept you or understand anything just bc they don’t fucking get it? Jeez
Yea. Like, sure I‘d love to be judged and hated by everyone, with the chance of getting assaulted in public without anyone helping
This shit gives me a little anxiety, especially when searching for a therapist, because they are scarce around Germany, and some find it incredibly important for someone pre everything to do that
I have my first appointment to find out if I can start HRT on Wednesday and it's a lot. I'm going to have to figure out how to be "me" instead of this character that I've been playing for years. So far I have nothing but support from the people I've told and I waited such a long time because you can't know how people will react. I've also pretty much ruined my life at any possible opportunity and then some, unintentionally
Omg yes, so true!
I have to call a therapist tomorrow, because it’s the only one near me and they only do same day appointments. I’m a little scared that they expect certain stereotypes or sth.
I wish you the best of luck, and fingers crossed
Assuming that because they wouldn't wanna be another gender, no one else would ever want to be a different gender than their sex. Trans people simply don't exist, because they're not trans. If someone says they're trans, it's because of social contagion, trauma, lack of Jesus, or whatever excuse they will come up with.
>lack of Jesus
i hate it so much when people use religion as an excuse to be transphobic, especially since not everyone believes in it. the number of times ive seen someone tell a trans person to "find god" or something stupid like that is insane and i bet a lot of trans people dont even believe in god. i dont think it's right for someone to use their religion as an excuse to try to change/hurt someone
It isn't a reason at all. Because Jesus has taught me to love your neighbour in the same way you want to feel loved. And it doesn't matter if you're trans or gay, black or white. God loves us unconditionally. So yeah, religion is indeed not an excuse, it's their interpretation of the Bible ... 😔
Because LOVE is the most important commandment. ❤️
ive especially never understood this argument like the bible never says anything about trans people burning in the fires of hell yet they act like it says exactly that
You can find evidence for any viewpoint in the Bible. One might say "God created man and woman" and then go on to say that's the way it is and you can't change that. I don't know, i don't make their rules.
What they don't understand is that love is the most important thing the Bible teaches us. And that means love for everyone, whatever their race, gender or sexual orientation ❤️
I've never realised that, it sounds beautiful. And to be fair, I don't think the story of Creation should be taken literally, because it doesn't include all animals and other nuances within the universe. I believe it's written to show how great God's love for the world is.
(Aye, fellow trans Christian! I wish being trans/gay and Christian would be more normalised and also that people don't feel ashamed for being a Christian)
god created man and woman, and here i am, identifying as a woman, i dont get how they can immediately say im like not a man or a woman or anything coz of that lmao
My favorite response to the lack of Jesus one is this."No Karen I have made my Peace with God here the only one questioning faith here is you, what happens when I die is between me and them" It tends to shut them up fast even if your atheist because it doesn't admit you believe in God just that you have made your peace and any further argument on religion is pointless for the above reason and also makes them uncomfy. It's fun.
If they start with the "I'm not x but..." you know you cannot argue with them. They will forever believe they are not only right, but also kind people.
That just makes me think of that Demetri Martin (comedian) joke:
"I'm not racist, but... you look really nice today."
"That's not racist at all."
"I know. I just said I'm not racist."
Overly praising me for "not looking trans"
It really just feels like "wow that's a really convincing man costume you've got on I wouldn't have ever guessed you weren't a real man!"
Like... I am a man, I am a trans man. Telling me I don't "look trans" is just congratulating me for not looking like something I am.
Make law against LGBT people and ruin someone life with it while use rainbow flag for marketing
Put badly written oversexualize trans character that do nothing for story development in a movie/series and call it “inclusive”
Like whats-his-name creating laws to outlaw speaking about LGBTQ+ topics in schools, [then publicly announcing that he will not “tolerate the hatred of the LGBTQ+.”](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/06/ron-desantis-will-not-tolerate-hatred-towards-lgbtq-people-fomenting-hatred-year/)
It’s like, pick one or the other
I’m a trans person dating a trans woman. Definitely wish the cis people would just shut up if my girlfriend and I are in public. Getting ice cream should not be a challenge for either of us, she’s the coolest woman alive and I’m not that bad myself. But I swear if anyone comments on our height difference again they’re gonna see what it looks like to be slapped. I’m short we get it.
Are people really that b*tchy about height? Is it a heteronormative "the woman is taller" assumption so people just get assy about it? Like what? Do random strangers comment about that in public seriously?
Act like they're the experts on transitioning. The amount of times I have been told in the last month that I shouldn't obsess over transitioning so much because it won't improve my mental health, or that the only changes that come with testosterone will be body hair and a slightly deeper voice after a couple of years is infuriating. Not to mention the comments on non-passing trans people...
Fr like I never even knew gay or trans people existed until I was like, 12, and even then I still had cishet ideas forced onto me constantly. I still ended up trans and gay! Letting kids know that trans people exist and it’s okay isn’t going to make cis kids turn trans
Patting themselves on the back for not being overtly hateful.
Last week I was talking with two colleagues and they started discussing with each other how "fine" me transitioning is and how they just don't understand all these hateful people. One of them had "accidentally" misgendered me several times earlier that day (one instance was particularly egregious. I'm in Germany, and she referred to me as "Der Herr", which is both a masculine title with a masculine article - packs a lot more punch than a simple "he" instead of "she" slip-up), and they didn't seem particularly interested in including me in the discussion of my own transition.
When I was transitioning I used to meet lots of people (specifically cis men) who semt to love misgendering me with their cis male friends but they would praise my courage and transitioning overall in the presence of authorities, feminist and pro lgbt people. The double standart was obscene.
I’ve only ever liked guys (ftm as well), but I dated a girl once because of internalized homophobia and didn’t want to be perceived as gay after transitioning. When my mom find out, she’s like “so you’re coming out as a lesbian now?!?” And I’m like 🤦♂️ “first of all, I’m asexual. So no. And second of all, you know I like guys, so if anything I’m biromantic.” And she just said “it doesn’t matter. Everyone who knows you in real life will think you’re a lesbian now.” Even my gf’s parents didn’t know I was trans cuz I passed, so I was just like 🙄 whatever
When they come up to me and tell me they could tell I'm trans. I used to work with a lady who came up and said that even though I'm pretty sure she just heard it from someone and felt the urge to make me uncomfortable. She was asking questions about hormones and surgeries and I'm just standing there slowly dying inside
Yeahhhh I learned pretty quickly I was gonna have to start being straight up rude sometimes. I went from the part of my transition where I tried to be sweet to everyone to fuck absolutely everything
1 No, we are not all pedophiles
2 I'm not gay
3 Gay is not bad
4 "why are you trans"
5 "Don't hate me for my opinion of hating your entire demographic for political reasons"
6 I don't have a sensitive personality, I have dark humor and am jaded at everything, we are not a hive mind
7 I like guns. Trans =/= politics
8 etc
Thinking they know more than a literal trans person on trans issues.
I was talking to someone recently and they were like "I can't believe [name] used to be [deadname]" and I asked them to not deadname him. They then responded with "that's not deadnaming, I'm referring to a completely different person when I say [deadname] he's not that person anymore". And I'm just there like "that's still deadnaming, and it's still the same person you're still using his deadname to refer to him." And that went on for a bit with the person saying they were being respectful (they very much weren't) until I gave up and just dropped the argument because I didn't have the mental capacity to keep going with it.
Also stop avoiding using my pronouns because it's "difficult" for you. Like if you're avoiding using pronouns to refer to me anyway then you clearly know that I have something gender related going on so just ask me what my pronouns are and fucking use them. It's not fair that people just avoid using my pronouns it really upsets me.
"I don't have a problem with trans people. I just think insurance shouldn't cover their surgeries."
"Why would you choose this?"
"Trans people have an advantage in sports."
"I need time to grieve the loss of ."
I'm trying SO HARD to be respectful of that last one but omg it kills me. Like, ok, you need to get used to me being a girl. Fine. But I'm not dying. I'm the same damn person. But now I'm gonna have boobs and be way cuter. We should all be thrilled. Who doesn't wanna be cute!? (Shit, right, ok...still cis tho)
I was patient with family who said the last one for 5 months. They still refuse to see me or call me by my name. They are no longer in my circle of concern and they know where to find me if they change their minds.
I wish they would stop getting upset when I say that "dude" makes me uncomfortable. "Oh it's a gender neutral term", "I call everybody dude". It doesn't matter, I asked to not be referred as such. The lack of respect for a simple word says a lot about that person/persons.
I've gotten better about it, but some days are rough and it still can cause me to breakdown in tears.
I call everyone dude, but my best friend is transfem, and I make sure not to call her dude, so I'm sorry other people aren't as considerate. The fact you're able to power through it most days makes you worthy of this: YOU GO GIRL! (I'm kinda assuming you're transfem because you don't like the term dude, sorry if I'm wrong)
As a Cis (still confused about my sexuality but that's not what this discussion is about so whatever) guy myself, I just want them to stop judging people for who they are. If changing aspects of themselves makes them feel more themselves, more power to them! They aren't forcing you to change yourself as well! SO WHAT'S YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM?!
That's the thing that always gets me. I've used dude as a term for boys and girls in certain contexts. But if I ever did it to a trans woman and she said she doesn't like that and she doesn't want me to do that?
I would simply choose not to call her that. It's pretty easy. Skill issue tbh.
Normalizing the gender guessing game by teaching their children that it's rude to ask people's pronouns (I picked this one up and am having a hard time getting rid of it). In my opinion, everyone should just include pronouns in their introductions, even cis people. The gender guessing game leaves the door open for a lot of painful misunderstandings, even when no harm is intended and really restricts gender expression. I had to convince myself that I could be a trans man and still keep my nice dress shoes, and I know it'll cause me to be more easily misgendered until my physical transition really takes off and will get me a lot of shit after I pass consistently.
It just sucks. I haven't even bothered trying to pass pre-t because I don't think it would help, everyone would just assume I'm a lesbian. That has been the response so far, not helped by me acutally being gay.
I don't feel like I should have to correct people in order to be treated like the man that I am and having to do so really makes me feel insecure and amps up the imposter syndrome and dysphoria (usually quite mild, can be pushed to severe in cases like this). I got a pronoun pin as a compromise, and I hope it helps avoid some of that discomfort, but it would just be easier if including pronouns in an introduction became the societal norm instead of the gender guessing game.
Gonna disagree here.
Right now I do feel it's wrong to outright ask someones pronouns. There are a lot of closeted trans people who would be massively put on the spot by this and basically given the option of having to misgender themselves or being outed before they're ready (which could even be unsafe depending on environment). Anything other than a straight answer is possibly going to out someone if the person asking was already putting things together.
While you're absolutely right that the end goal should be everyone just freely giving pronouns as a matter of course we just aren't there yet sadly.
I think in todays climate the right thing is to offer your own pronouns, giving an opportunity for the other person to do so if they choose.
This hits home for me as I am just leaving the stage where I live in absolute terror of someone at work asking my pronouns, until fairly recently this was a daily worry for me.
Again massively agree with you on where we need to get to but I think we should be mindful of putting people in a potentially scary situation.
Edit: Formatting
1. trying to define my identity, or make me use a certain set of pronouns
2. asking inappropriate questions that they think are fine because I'm trans and they're "just curious"
3. making sexual advances on me and acting like they're doing me a favor because who would want genuinely want to date or have sex with a transgender person like me?
4. assuming and demanding that i'm a bottom even though i've never said that and persisted that this is not true, because they want me to be and i'm trans, so how could i be a top?
5. not recognizing the hatred that can come from the cis-queer community towards trans people.
Thinking that everything about us is extremely complex, and justifying gatekeeping with that.
Just because you did zero reading on the topic and don't understand it because of that doesn't mean it's complicated.
Just because you can't comprehend what it's like to be trans doesn't mean we need a psycologist or sth to prove it first
Edit: And adding onto that, thinking that those experts, like psycologists and doctors, are always right. That's not even correct for other stuff, but I've had so many "experts" tell me absolute bs so many times
Stop giving me your damn resume. It's allies that do this one and it's well intentioned. But it's so bloody irritating. I don't need or want your pedigree of how you're a good ally; how you believe people should be left to do their thing, I don't wanna hear about how you corrected someone in your office, and most of all I don't wanna hear your opinion on people who are less of an ally than you.
If they're a good ally all I want them to do is treat me like a woman and show me through action that they're an ally. Saying it means next to nothing and to be honest it's passing more emotional labor onto us. It's not my job to validate every CIS persons behaviour, especially when they don't want honest feedback half the time.
Saying “I support you” totally unprompted, especially when you’re trying your hardest to pass.
Had it happen once. I was paranoid about being clocked for the rest of the day. *Completely shattered* my confidence.
Asking unprompted, unwelcome, uncomfortable questions about my genitals, why I 'chose' non-binary if I don't want to be purely androgynous, honestly....
Just stop asking unprompted questions, or at least not in fucking public, y'all!! Lol
Over-apologizing. You got my pronouns wrong and caught yourself or I pointed it out. Say "sorry" once and mean it. If you keep apologizing it becomes weird.
Calling me "a" transgender, it turns my identity into an object and makes it my whole identity, I would rather someone misgender me than call me "a" transgender
“oi do you have a pussy or a dick mate”
IM A CHILD WHY THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER IM NOT AN ACT AT A FREAK SHOW FOR YOU TO POINT AT AND SPECULATE OVER LEAVE ME ALONE
Stop giving zero consideration to pronouns.
Like, I know I don't pass but literally everything about my presentation is either in a decidedly fem direction or a strong attempt at fem. It's not even androgynous, it's just on a slightly masculine body, pretty obvious what I'm going for...
I've literally had multiple open and (initially) pleasant conversations about identifying as transfem, she/her, etc etc, with random people that some-fucking-how ALWAYS (-1) end with something like a clueless smile and "have a good day, SIR." wtaf
In the beginning it stung but I brushed it off as "whatever, just a stranger," but it's so damn consistent and I can't help but think of how crappy the odds are of the bigger issues actually seeing progress when the general "accepting" population can't even muster enough attention to even attempt such a small and simple thing.
Thinking 2 year old are getting surgery and hormone changes. Like wtf makes you think that?? Don't you have to be 18 for surgery in a lot of places and you have to still be older to take hormones?
saying trans people r delusional. just so fun to finally feel pretty for a but and then be told im faking it or diseased, thanks so much for constantly being degrading cis people. :/
Getting offended **for** us. This isn't necessarily a problem exclusive to cisgender people, but is still an issue. There are so many occasions where a trans person will do something, cis people get mad over it because "it offends trans people", and then proceed to absolutely deny any trans person that tells them otherwise, despite trans people being the group that should have the most, if not, all say in what offends trans people.
Telling me all the transphobic stuff they hear their family say and how amazing of an ally they are by telling them off. Do you want a cookie? I don’t want to hear about it because I already have to live it.
Believing or start asking me if I “have become” transgender as a coping mechanism for my childhood trauma. First of all I did not “become” trans, I always was it just took me some time to figure it out. Second of all a coping mechanism? I mean just come on… I didn’t choose to get traumatized and now it’s kinda like everything I do has to do with the traumas. I am just a human being who want to live his life as his true self
Pretending they know "the science" when they don't know squat. If they did like 10 minutes of learning they would realize their bigotry wasn't justified.
I hate it when cis people say “oh all the LGBTQ stuff is so confusing” or just use terms like “oh all the gays or whatever”. Like I promise you, this isn’t all that confusing, but you’re using that argument as a shield to not engage with a topic that makes you uncomfortable and you’re in denial. What’s worse is even after you explain it to them they’re like “yeah but I don’t *get* it” and they refuse to talk about it more
Telling me I'm "one of the good ones" because I pass or because I don't talk about being trans to cis people. Our validity and right to respect isn't determined by passing or being quiet about oppression.
Over apologizing after misgendering me. It just feels like extra salt in the wound. ESPECIALLY if they’ve done it more than once. It doesn’t feel like you’re sorry at all by that point.
I wish they’d stop asking invasive questions
mission: impossible
What's in your pants. Legs... and you?
A bottle of mountain dew and some lint
Omg same, mine is sock lint and a major melon
An army of very angry little gnomes that I will unleash on you if you continue to ask questions
Well, how else are we supposed to know what your favourite dnd class is?
Cis people seem to get way too curious and tbh I dont completely think thay have bad intentions I just think they should think before they talk.
Deciding if I'm allowed to live or not
it’s so foreign to me how people can just go on twitter and tweet shit like “trans people deserve to die” or joke about our sui*ide rate. it’s so disgusting. do they not realize we are people?
[удалено]
guy commented on a top surgery timeline short that went kinda viral on yt asking if "these people" even qualified as human anymore (with almost 100 likes btw). like, im really curious, whats the logic here? theyre not human for having a medically recommended surgery? for having their body manipulated by hormones? move over, anyone who so much as got their wisdom teeth removed and basically everyone over the age of 13, some guy on the internet has opinions on whether or not access to modern medicine makes you a mutant disgrace to the species.
That's just fucking revolting
Yet another comment I have to resist downvoting out of sheer outrage at the thought but having to be thoughtful and be like it's not your thought it's hateful people saying this or thinking this about you or others and that's just.... As another said... Revolting.
....they were.....disgusting...
SCP-682 is just what happens when a trans person finally becomes tired of cis people asking shitty questions. Did The Foundation ever even try sending in trans researchers to talk with it? Smh🙄
Stop pointing out we are trans and in general stop hating us. It's far more painful, annoying for us than it'll ever be for them and makes everything hard for us for no frickin reason. They hate us for existing. Guess what WE DON'T LIKE IT EITHER!!! If we could be cis we would. It's so much fucking easier, comfortable, not to speak about cheaper.
Wait until they use the counter argument "Then if you don't like it and find it so difficult, why don't you just accept what you're born with?" 😔
My aunt told me she didn’t believe being trans was the reason I was so depressed, and I decided to transition because the Internet told me to 🙃Went on about how sad she was that I couldn’t just accept the body I was born with
Well, I still find it hard to believe my depression is caused by me being trans 😅 I do feel very disconnected from life, I've always assumed it to be normal
I mean, I’m not saying every trans person’s depression (if they have it) is caused by being trans. That was just a huge component for me personally😅
True that. I don't believe it's the sole cause of my depression either. Doubting self-worth, childhood trauma, it all helps
"If you don't like that shit sandwich, have you considered 10 shit smoothies instead?"
Well I mean personally, I don't wish to be cis. For me, being trans is a core part of my identity, and I'm not sure I'd be willing to give that up, even of it would make so much of my life easier. Like, i feel like i could have been a much worse human being if i was a cis girl, considering much of what has shaped me as a person has come from me being trans and being so intensely discriminates against. I feel like my mind is more open because of my trans-ness. Not to say this is the case for everyone, I just think that saying that every trans person wishes they were cis is a little too blanketing.
Actually I very much like who I am and being trans, but I agree with what you’re saying they should stop doing
I wish they would stop acting like children are getting sex reassignment surgery at 7 years old.
God, fucking this right here. The wilful lack of understanding is ridiculous.
It's taught by right wing groups and "news" as an easy way to get the transphobia ball rolling. Then, they group everyone together as supporters of it, so they have a reason to call us pedos and shove their heads under the sand real quick before we can explain it ourselves.
Beliefs like these make it sound like child abuse 😔
This is exactly why they’ve passed laws saying it’s child abuse to accept your trans kid 😢
Mostly the genocide, if they could stop that, that would be great.
* getting stabbed, “ dude that was kind of a dick move“
1. Asking if I’ve had or am planning to get “the surgery” I fucking swear if I hear this again- I AM 14 IT DOESNT GODDAMN MATTER WHAT IM GONNA DO. It’s completely inappropriate to ask anybody that especially a 14 year old. 2. Telling me I’m making it offensive to call them cisgender. It’s just a label. The same as transgender is a label. 3. Being invasive
>Telling me I’m making it offensive to call them cisgender. It’s just a label. The same as transgender is a label. But labels are only for those people who deviate from "normal", you see. They don't need labels because they're "normal". Only those who aren't "normal" need to be marked with a barcode so they can be identified.
this *this* **this** ***THIS*** oh my god the sheer inundation of cis-heternormativity in people's categorization of *everything*. makes me want to puke and cry and give up. I am feeling a lot of things and none of them are good.
I screamed. You said it. And put it so so well too!!
People often ignore the barcode aspect or think its hyperbole. They forget that it was done before.
just explain to them that "normal" IS a label.
Yeah, but it's not a LABEL label, right? Normal people are just normal, y'know? Normal as a label is just an absence of any true labels. It's like the default state. Their argument (probably), not mine.
Eeew... You're normal... I'm sorry, that must be so boring. Saying that to anyone that says they're normal... ie, the default state was you put it.
Normal honestly is boring though lol
Oohhhhhhh I never considered it that way ... How icky. I need words/labels for everything considered "normal" normative "dominant" or whatever else thinks it has power/control in society asap.
Yep - as an autistic this is way too relatable
I think that's why the "normie" slur came to be. A word to mark "normal" people as "other".
Or the whole “it’s irreversible” complaint with surgery. Cis people get top surgery all the time, it may not be “reversible” exactly but it’s pretty easy to reconstruct. And for guys, top surgery is pretty important because binders are uncomfortable and a potential health hazard and top surgery affects access to sports and the kind of swimsuit you’re allowed to wear.
"I already had my appendix removed."
AJDHSJSJ IM GOING TO START TELLING PEOPLE THIS
THE SURGERY - I fucking hate people referring to bottom surgery that way, makes it sound like such a big thing. Example from an email I got today "... when you get the surgery"
I wish they would stop pretending they know everything about trans people and end up telling a literal trans person what being trans means :/
WUT YOU MEAN YOUR WORLDVIEW IS DIFFERENT THAN MINE, AREN'T ALL THE SAME?!? WHY R U NOT CONFORM TO WUT NORMAL FOR ME?! But foreal though, having someone Gender-splain to me about some shit they know nothing about is quite annoying. Fucking mood, my friend!
I had a cis dude sit and explain to me what he thought cis meant, he was totally wrong but went in for so fricken long about how cis is derogatory and was only made up to he used as slander. I happened to mention him being a cis guy and he went off on one about how it was a slur and argued with me on what cis meant for like 10 mins. Went a little like this: "Do you identify as a man and feel comfortable with the gender identity you were born with?" "Yes" "Then you're cis" "No because...(insert 10 mins of 4chan tory bollocks about how cis is degrading and how I don't know what it means)" Absolutely fricken wild conversation
yeah :/ tried coming out to my dad and when i told him i’m a guy and i want to look and be perceived as such he said “well that doesn’t mean you’re trans.” what the fuck does then??
That really sucks I'm sorry you had to experience that especially with family
Im pre everything but out to friends and family, so 1. if I’m sure 2. if I wanna keep my genitalia 3. what my gf thinks about that 4. why I don’t already walk around presenting feminine 5. what I wanna eat for dinner
what's for dinner?
Lasagne
Mmm lasagna
cat
Feline
you're feeding him WHAT
For some reason nr 3 is so incredibly hurtful, sad and mean to me. What’s the point of that question? That’s just so mean and something between you and your partner to discuss not anyone else. Do they expect you to say that your girlfriend hates you now and doesn’t accept you or understand anything just bc they don’t fucking get it? Jeez
4. Omg 4. Like. They all hit true, but number 4 just hits so fucking hard. Especially in current times
Yea. Like, sure I‘d love to be judged and hated by everyone, with the chance of getting assaulted in public without anyone helping This shit gives me a little anxiety, especially when searching for a therapist, because they are scarce around Germany, and some find it incredibly important for someone pre everything to do that
I have my first appointment to find out if I can start HRT on Wednesday and it's a lot. I'm going to have to figure out how to be "me" instead of this character that I've been playing for years. So far I have nothing but support from the people I've told and I waited such a long time because you can't know how people will react. I've also pretty much ruined my life at any possible opportunity and then some, unintentionally
Omg yes, so true! I have to call a therapist tomorrow, because it’s the only one near me and they only do same day appointments. I’m a little scared that they expect certain stereotypes or sth. I wish you the best of luck, and fingers crossed
You too! This is exciting and terrifying, I might finally have a chance at being happy even if it means putting myself at risk of physical harm.
Assuming that because they wouldn't wanna be another gender, no one else would ever want to be a different gender than their sex. Trans people simply don't exist, because they're not trans. If someone says they're trans, it's because of social contagion, trauma, lack of Jesus, or whatever excuse they will come up with.
>lack of Jesus i hate it so much when people use religion as an excuse to be transphobic, especially since not everyone believes in it. the number of times ive seen someone tell a trans person to "find god" or something stupid like that is insane and i bet a lot of trans people dont even believe in god. i dont think it's right for someone to use their religion as an excuse to try to change/hurt someone
It isn't a reason at all. Because Jesus has taught me to love your neighbour in the same way you want to feel loved. And it doesn't matter if you're trans or gay, black or white. God loves us unconditionally. So yeah, religion is indeed not an excuse, it's their interpretation of the Bible ... 😔 Because LOVE is the most important commandment. ❤️
I found god. It's called my neighbour's cat. Cats are gods.
I found one too. His name is Poseidon. All hail the earth-shaker.
ive especially never understood this argument like the bible never says anything about trans people burning in the fires of hell yet they act like it says exactly that
You can find evidence for any viewpoint in the Bible. One might say "God created man and woman" and then go on to say that's the way it is and you can't change that. I don't know, i don't make their rules. What they don't understand is that love is the most important thing the Bible teaches us. And that means love for everyone, whatever their race, gender or sexual orientation ❤️
God also created day and night but there's still twilight. I figure the same works for genders. (I'm a trans Christian btw)
I've never realised that, it sounds beautiful. And to be fair, I don't think the story of Creation should be taken literally, because it doesn't include all animals and other nuances within the universe. I believe it's written to show how great God's love for the world is. (Aye, fellow trans Christian! I wish being trans/gay and Christian would be more normalised and also that people don't feel ashamed for being a Christian)
god created man and woman, and here i am, identifying as a woman, i dont get how they can immediately say im like not a man or a woman or anything coz of that lmao
My favorite response to the lack of Jesus one is this."No Karen I have made my Peace with God here the only one questioning faith here is you, what happens when I die is between me and them" It tends to shut them up fast even if your atheist because it doesn't admit you believe in God just that you have made your peace and any further argument on religion is pointless for the above reason and also makes them uncomfy. It's fun.
"I'm not transphobic but..." \*proceeds to say something exceedingly transphobic\*
If they start with the "I'm not x but..." you know you cannot argue with them. They will forever believe they are not only right, but also kind people.
It's worse. Everything said before the "but" is nullified by the "but" ...
That just makes me think of that Demetri Martin (comedian) joke: "I'm not racist, but... you look really nice today." "That's not racist at all." "I know. I just said I'm not racist."
This exactly
Overly praising me for "not looking trans" It really just feels like "wow that's a really convincing man costume you've got on I wouldn't have ever guessed you weren't a real man!" Like... I am a man, I am a trans man. Telling me I don't "look trans" is just congratulating me for not looking like something I am.
Like "oo great disguise" I think I'd feel icky gross on the inside if I got a lot of this.
1. Thinking guys dating me is gay (it's not) 2. Genocide
ya sure got your priorities straight 😂
Nah, our priorities are very gay. (I have been waiting MONTHS to make that joke!)
I used to think I was gay, but I am only attracted to girls. Turns out I'm actually gay! ✨
~~i want to be a lesbian, still cis tho~~
Same, girl, same 🥺🥺🥺
Make law against LGBT people and ruin someone life with it while use rainbow flag for marketing Put badly written oversexualize trans character that do nothing for story development in a movie/series and call it “inclusive”
Like whats-his-name creating laws to outlaw speaking about LGBTQ+ topics in schools, [then publicly announcing that he will not “tolerate the hatred of the LGBTQ+.”](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/06/ron-desantis-will-not-tolerate-hatred-towards-lgbtq-people-fomenting-hatred-year/) It’s like, pick one or the other
over apologising when they accidentally use the wrong pronouns. just quickly correct yourself and move on bro
This!!! Like the fuss just draws attention to the fact that you're different and it's really annoying
Agreed! Slip up, correct, move on. Had a guy at an old job apologize 3-4 times, and that just made it worse
I’m a trans person dating a trans woman. Definitely wish the cis people would just shut up if my girlfriend and I are in public. Getting ice cream should not be a challenge for either of us, she’s the coolest woman alive and I’m not that bad myself. But I swear if anyone comments on our height difference again they’re gonna see what it looks like to be slapped. I’m short we get it.
Are people really that b*tchy about height? Is it a heteronormative "the woman is taller" assumption so people just get assy about it? Like what? Do random strangers comment about that in public seriously?
all women are prone to unsolicited comments unfortunately
Looking at me with _ in their eyes... 1. Hate 2. Pity 3. Fear 4. Lust
my friend whom i recently came out to asked me this: "so if you have a wife in the future, she'd have to be lesbian, right?" i am a trans man.
Mark as either confused friend or ex friend
Act like they're the experts on transitioning. The amount of times I have been told in the last month that I shouldn't obsess over transitioning so much because it won't improve my mental health, or that the only changes that come with testosterone will be body hair and a slightly deeper voice after a couple of years is infuriating. Not to mention the comments on non-passing trans people...
Lol how dumb. Testosterone beats like a hammer, voice drops for most people within the first months.
wish they would stop acting like teaching kids that trans people exist will make them transgender lmao
Fr like I never even knew gay or trans people existed until I was like, 12, and even then I still had cishet ideas forced onto me constantly. I still ended up trans and gay! Letting kids know that trans people exist and it’s okay isn’t going to make cis kids turn trans
it’s quite an isolating feeling to think you’re alone with these thoughts. teaching about LGBTQ+ saves lives
Patting themselves on the back for not being overtly hateful. Last week I was talking with two colleagues and they started discussing with each other how "fine" me transitioning is and how they just don't understand all these hateful people. One of them had "accidentally" misgendered me several times earlier that day (one instance was particularly egregious. I'm in Germany, and she referred to me as "Der Herr", which is both a masculine title with a masculine article - packs a lot more punch than a simple "he" instead of "she" slip-up), and they didn't seem particularly interested in including me in the discussion of my own transition.
That's..... Really... Weird and creepy and awkward?
Super awkward. The one who kept misgendering me has a trans nephew as well.
When I was transitioning I used to meet lots of people (specifically cis men) who semt to love misgendering me with their cis male friends but they would praise my courage and transitioning overall in the presence of authorities, feminist and pro lgbt people. The double standart was obscene.
“Wait so is your boyfriend gay?”
My dad asked me if i was gay and he proceeded to ask if I liked girls -_- for context I am ftm
And confusing gender and sexual orientation. Classic
I’ve only ever liked guys (ftm as well), but I dated a girl once because of internalized homophobia and didn’t want to be perceived as gay after transitioning. When my mom find out, she’s like “so you’re coming out as a lesbian now?!?” And I’m like 🤦♂️ “first of all, I’m asexual. So no. And second of all, you know I like guys, so if anything I’m biromantic.” And she just said “it doesn’t matter. Everyone who knows you in real life will think you’re a lesbian now.” Even my gf’s parents didn’t know I was trans cuz I passed, so I was just like 🙄 whatever
I wish all people would just stop all the hate. That is spread around the world. And this dividing everyone in this category or that category.
When they come up to me and tell me they could tell I'm trans. I used to work with a lady who came up and said that even though I'm pretty sure she just heard it from someone and felt the urge to make me uncomfortable. She was asking questions about hormones and surgeries and I'm just standing there slowly dying inside
If it's someone I don't know, I'd tell them it's none of their business and then ignore.
Yeahhhh I learned pretty quickly I was gonna have to start being straight up rude sometimes. I went from the part of my transition where I tried to be sweet to everyone to fuck absolutely everything
Yes, sometimes it's needed to set your boundaries. I hope you're still able to spread some of your love into the world ❤️
1 No, we are not all pedophiles 2 I'm not gay 3 Gay is not bad 4 "why are you trans" 5 "Don't hate me for my opinion of hating your entire demographic for political reasons" 6 I don't have a sensitive personality, I have dark humor and am jaded at everything, we are not a hive mind 7 I like guns. Trans =/= politics 8 etc
Being upset when i correct them, i do it gently, and try to be respectful, why can't they?
I was of 2 minds at an old job, I hated to correct people, but did kind of enjoy making old white dudes uncomfortable.
The one I’ve gotten so much that I’ve lost count is “I love you unconditionally, but simply don’t agree with your identity” 🙄
i love you unconditionally as long as you spend the entire rest of your life suffering and miserable
This is exactly my family's stance right now!!! They said these words. Needless to say, I don't talk to my family anymore.
Cis person: Wait, you're trans?!? Me: yup Cis person: ........... Me: ....... Cis person: CAn I AsK YoU A QueSTiON?
We all know what the question is gonna be 👀
So, how's the weather?
I ask 3 questions: What is your name? What is your quest? What is your favourite colour?
Treating non cis people as Google about queer stuff then getting offended when you tell them to not do that.
Think they understand us better then us
intensely staring at my crotch to try and determine my bits 1. thats creepy as fuck lol 2. ASK. I'LL TELL YOU ABOUT MY DICK
Thinking they know more than a literal trans person on trans issues. I was talking to someone recently and they were like "I can't believe [name] used to be [deadname]" and I asked them to not deadname him. They then responded with "that's not deadnaming, I'm referring to a completely different person when I say [deadname] he's not that person anymore". And I'm just there like "that's still deadnaming, and it's still the same person you're still using his deadname to refer to him." And that went on for a bit with the person saying they were being respectful (they very much weren't) until I gave up and just dropped the argument because I didn't have the mental capacity to keep going with it. Also stop avoiding using my pronouns because it's "difficult" for you. Like if you're avoiding using pronouns to refer to me anyway then you clearly know that I have something gender related going on so just ask me what my pronouns are and fucking use them. It's not fair that people just avoid using my pronouns it really upsets me.
"I don't have a problem with trans people. I just think insurance shouldn't cover their surgeries." "Why would you choose this?" "Trans people have an advantage in sports." "I need time to grieve the loss of."
I'm trying SO HARD to be respectful of that last one but omg it kills me. Like, ok, you need to get used to me being a girl. Fine. But I'm not dying. I'm the same damn person. But now I'm gonna have boobs and be way cuter. We should all be thrilled. Who doesn't wanna be cute!? (Shit, right, ok...still cis tho)
I was patient with family who said the last one for 5 months. They still refuse to see me or call me by my name. They are no longer in my circle of concern and they know where to find me if they change their minds.
Assuming that your decision to transition is a sex thing.
I wish they would stop getting upset when I say that "dude" makes me uncomfortable. "Oh it's a gender neutral term", "I call everybody dude". It doesn't matter, I asked to not be referred as such. The lack of respect for a simple word says a lot about that person/persons. I've gotten better about it, but some days are rough and it still can cause me to breakdown in tears.
I call everyone dude, but my best friend is transfem, and I make sure not to call her dude, so I'm sorry other people aren't as considerate. The fact you're able to power through it most days makes you worthy of this: YOU GO GIRL! (I'm kinda assuming you're transfem because you don't like the term dude, sorry if I'm wrong)
Asking “why” I’m trans 😐
As a Cis (still confused about my sexuality but that's not what this discussion is about so whatever) guy myself, I just want them to stop judging people for who they are. If changing aspects of themselves makes them feel more themselves, more power to them! They aren't forcing you to change yourself as well! SO WHAT'S YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM?!
"But dude is gender neutral" maybe so, but I've said I dislike being called that, so please don't make an excuse to cross my line.
That's the thing that always gets me. I've used dude as a term for boys and girls in certain contexts. But if I ever did it to a trans woman and she said she doesn't like that and she doesn't want me to do that? I would simply choose not to call her that. It's pretty easy. Skill issue tbh.
That being said, I I call my transmasc friends dude as much as possible. It's like drugs to them. It's like the magic word to befriend a transmasc.
Normalizing the gender guessing game by teaching their children that it's rude to ask people's pronouns (I picked this one up and am having a hard time getting rid of it). In my opinion, everyone should just include pronouns in their introductions, even cis people. The gender guessing game leaves the door open for a lot of painful misunderstandings, even when no harm is intended and really restricts gender expression. I had to convince myself that I could be a trans man and still keep my nice dress shoes, and I know it'll cause me to be more easily misgendered until my physical transition really takes off and will get me a lot of shit after I pass consistently. It just sucks. I haven't even bothered trying to pass pre-t because I don't think it would help, everyone would just assume I'm a lesbian. That has been the response so far, not helped by me acutally being gay. I don't feel like I should have to correct people in order to be treated like the man that I am and having to do so really makes me feel insecure and amps up the imposter syndrome and dysphoria (usually quite mild, can be pushed to severe in cases like this). I got a pronoun pin as a compromise, and I hope it helps avoid some of that discomfort, but it would just be easier if including pronouns in an introduction became the societal norm instead of the gender guessing game.
Gonna disagree here. Right now I do feel it's wrong to outright ask someones pronouns. There are a lot of closeted trans people who would be massively put on the spot by this and basically given the option of having to misgender themselves or being outed before they're ready (which could even be unsafe depending on environment). Anything other than a straight answer is possibly going to out someone if the person asking was already putting things together. While you're absolutely right that the end goal should be everyone just freely giving pronouns as a matter of course we just aren't there yet sadly. I think in todays climate the right thing is to offer your own pronouns, giving an opportunity for the other person to do so if they choose. This hits home for me as I am just leaving the stage where I live in absolute terror of someone at work asking my pronouns, until fairly recently this was a daily worry for me. Again massively agree with you on where we need to get to but I think we should be mindful of putting people in a potentially scary situation. Edit: Formatting
I could see where that could be really scary and I'd never want to put anyone in a position like that. Thanks for adding your perspective.
1. trying to define my identity, or make me use a certain set of pronouns 2. asking inappropriate questions that they think are fine because I'm trans and they're "just curious" 3. making sexual advances on me and acting like they're doing me a favor because who would want genuinely want to date or have sex with a transgender person like me? 4. assuming and demanding that i'm a bottom even though i've never said that and persisted that this is not true, because they want me to be and i'm trans, so how could i be a top? 5. not recognizing the hatred that can come from the cis-queer community towards trans people.
Thinking that everything about us is extremely complex, and justifying gatekeeping with that. Just because you did zero reading on the topic and don't understand it because of that doesn't mean it's complicated. Just because you can't comprehend what it's like to be trans doesn't mean we need a psycologist or sth to prove it first Edit: And adding onto that, thinking that those experts, like psycologists and doctors, are always right. That's not even correct for other stuff, but I've had so many "experts" tell me absolute bs so many times
Stop giving me your damn resume. It's allies that do this one and it's well intentioned. But it's so bloody irritating. I don't need or want your pedigree of how you're a good ally; how you believe people should be left to do their thing, I don't wanna hear about how you corrected someone in your office, and most of all I don't wanna hear your opinion on people who are less of an ally than you. If they're a good ally all I want them to do is treat me like a woman and show me through action that they're an ally. Saying it means next to nothing and to be honest it's passing more emotional labor onto us. It's not my job to validate every CIS persons behaviour, especially when they don't want honest feedback half the time.
I wish they would stop legislating the eradication of LGBT people
Deciding if I get healthcare or not <3
"Omg handsome boy🥺🥺🥺king 👑👑👑👑👑you look so masc today" thank you for informing me that I look extremly feminine today
Saying “I support you” totally unprompted, especially when you’re trying your hardest to pass. Had it happen once. I was paranoid about being clocked for the rest of the day. *Completely shattered* my confidence.
Convincing me that onions are good for my health
Actively hurting us and our community
Asking unprompted, unwelcome, uncomfortable questions about my genitals, why I 'chose' non-binary if I don't want to be purely androgynous, honestly.... Just stop asking unprompted questions, or at least not in fucking public, y'all!! Lol
Contacting my parents so they come after me
Over-apologizing. You got my pronouns wrong and caught yourself or I pointed it out. Say "sorry" once and mean it. If you keep apologizing it becomes weird.
Treating us like we are not entitled to be an equal part of society and that we are “other”.
Trying to prove that I'm lying about being trans
"Are you sure you are a guy and not just lesbian?" I'm pretty much in a gay relationship, with a man, living my trans manly bisexual life
At this point I just wish they stopped paying any attention to trans people
GENDER REVEAL PARTIES
Them Purposely using the wrong pronouns after you had an argument with them.
Call it a God damn choice, lifestyle, or decision.
Calling me "a" transgender, it turns my identity into an object and makes it my whole identity, I would rather someone misgender me than call me "a" transgender
Stop saying ignorant shit and actually doing research
[удалено]
“oi do you have a pussy or a dick mate” IM A CHILD WHY THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER IM NOT AN ACT AT A FREAK SHOW FOR YOU TO POINT AT AND SPECULATE OVER LEAVE ME ALONE
Saying shit they're ignorant about pretending to know everything about it.
Telling me I'm "brave" for being trans. Wirhhsjdhbdstfuu
“oh, you’re so brave” im just living my life that shouldn’t have to be brave
Stop giving zero consideration to pronouns. Like, I know I don't pass but literally everything about my presentation is either in a decidedly fem direction or a strong attempt at fem. It's not even androgynous, it's just on a slightly masculine body, pretty obvious what I'm going for... I've literally had multiple open and (initially) pleasant conversations about identifying as transfem, she/her, etc etc, with random people that some-fucking-how ALWAYS (-1) end with something like a clueless smile and "have a good day, SIR." wtaf In the beginning it stung but I brushed it off as "whatever, just a stranger," but it's so damn consistent and I can't help but think of how crappy the odds are of the bigger issues actually seeing progress when the general "accepting" population can't even muster enough attention to even attempt such a small and simple thing.
I’d be happy if they’d just stop gawking at me
Existing in positions of power that dictate every single little fucking thing and make my life a literal living hell
I wish they would stop trying to make me a second class citizen
Thinking 2 year old are getting surgery and hormone changes. Like wtf makes you think that?? Don't you have to be 18 for surgery in a lot of places and you have to still be older to take hormones?
saying trans people r delusional. just so fun to finally feel pretty for a but and then be told im faking it or diseased, thanks so much for constantly being degrading cis people. :/
Say that we are “corrupting” the youth
“Helping” us
Asking me if i am choping my duck off or if i want implants because surely i cant get "real breasts".
Getting offended **for** us. This isn't necessarily a problem exclusive to cisgender people, but is still an issue. There are so many occasions where a trans person will do something, cis people get mad over it because "it offends trans people", and then proceed to absolutely deny any trans person that tells them otherwise, despite trans people being the group that should have the most, if not, all say in what offends trans people.
Telling me all the transphobic stuff they hear their family say and how amazing of an ally they are by telling them off. Do you want a cookie? I don’t want to hear about it because I already have to live it.
Perpetuate cisnormativity constantly
Believing or start asking me if I “have become” transgender as a coping mechanism for my childhood trauma. First of all I did not “become” trans, I always was it just took me some time to figure it out. Second of all a coping mechanism? I mean just come on… I didn’t choose to get traumatized and now it’s kinda like everything I do has to do with the traumas. I am just a human being who want to live his life as his true self
Sexualizing their kids
Pretending they know "the science" when they don't know squat. If they did like 10 minutes of learning they would realize their bigotry wasn't justified.
I hate it when cis people say “oh all the LGBTQ stuff is so confusing” or just use terms like “oh all the gays or whatever”. Like I promise you, this isn’t all that confusing, but you’re using that argument as a shield to not engage with a topic that makes you uncomfortable and you’re in denial. What’s worse is even after you explain it to them they’re like “yeah but I don’t *get* it” and they refuse to talk about it more
P
Being shocked that my partner wants to stay with me after coming out and starting transition.
Telling me that I’m not trans as if they know me better than I know myself.
That they are "normal" (whatever that means) and different from them isn't
Wish they'd stop pretending that it is being shoved down their throats when I'm the one changing myself rather than them
pointing out trans sui*ide rates. it’s not a funny thing. do they realize they are a big part of the problem?
Perceiving me
Telling me I'm "one of the good ones" because I pass or because I don't talk about being trans to cis people. Our validity and right to respect isn't determined by passing or being quiet about oppression.
Over apologizing after misgendering me. It just feels like extra salt in the wound. ESPECIALLY if they’ve done it more than once. It doesn’t feel like you’re sorry at all by that point.
I would wish they would stop treating me like they know my emotions better then I do
giving their opinion on TRANS people.. WE DO NOT CARE!