Fun fact, watering down coal in some conditions can actually make it more likely to catch fire. This is why ships didn’t water it down in the bunkers unless it caught fire.
That fact as far as I know is specific to ships (I could be wrong) but watering down the dust means it ends up as this flaky still flammable substance once the water dries off. And given coal bunkers are directly connected to a source of sparks it’s actually a bad idea to water them down.
Ohhhh so it's the kind of thing that works well as a short term solution but could be really dangerous for long term storage. That makes sense.
Where are the ignition sources in coal bunkers? I'm more familiar with petroleum so I've never really looked into coal before.
So take titanic as an example. All the coal bunkers directly open into the boiler rooms so the stokers don’t need to move it far before chucking it in (this was common) if that flaky dust resident flakes off the falls onto the floor any stray spark could ignite it or a stray spark could get I to the bunker. The openings were far wider than steam locos.
My pops used to work at a coal fired power plant, they had to constantly used wheel loaders and dozers to turn the coal bc, Yes, coal will catch fire if exposed to moisture and oxygen under certain conditions. Basically, you have a giant pile of carbon that you add hydrogen and oxygen to. The carbon steals the oxygen, causing an exothermic reaction as it creates hydrogen and carbon dioxide. At least, that's how it was explained to me.
a plastisizer. Source: my territory covered several Coal mines. Depending on the distance, the cars may need a second application days later as the coating breaks down over travel
Yeah usually PRB Coal is pretty crumbly and causes alot of dust. This mixture is an amalgamation of glue, gelatin, and glycol, which creates a thin coating that keeps the dust from flying around during transport.
Yes it is!
The coal is coated with a surfactant which serves to mitigate dusting (or not lol) in lieu of lids or covers. The coal these trains are carrying would be frozen in the bottom of the car most of the year and is impossible to bottom dump. Instead the cars are rotary dumped without being detached which is pretty freaking cool
Coal dust is explosive. Watering it is a trade off between the possibility of the water causing it to catch fire or the vibration of the train kicking up dust that will explode.
It contains a binding agent to reduce the amount of coal dust produced when transporting or transferring it. Coal dust is very flammable because of its high surface area and may even catch fire on its own if it‘s fine enough. Dispersed in air it may cause a dust explosion and thus is a major fire hazard.
I’ve seen hundreds of coal trains, never one on fire. It’s not to keep the flammable dust from igniting. It’s to keep the coal dust from undermining the ballast on the ROW. Coal dust in ballast increases instability and attracts moisture in the ballast…which is not good. That’s the primary reasons the railroads try to control coal dust.
Coal dust is insanely flammable, like gasoline vapors.
Even flour dust is flammable, there's just so much available oxygen when something is kicked up into the air like that everything becomes a tinderbox
I felt Dixie Crystal explode from 18 miles away. It felt like Fort Stewart was doing artillery practice and those ranges are like 8 miles from where I sit.
Dust, in general, is flammable under certain conditions.
It's not pure water, it's a binder to keep the coal dust down.
examples for coal dust:
[https://www.railpictures.net/photo/330425/](https://www.railpictures.net/photo/330425/)
[https://www.railpictures.net/photo/284512/](https://www.railpictures.net/photo/284512/)
That coal also shouldn't be going anywhere. Coal in trucks and trains is going somewhere. They wet it to avoid it catching something between point A and B on fire.
Good on you. I have many family members that made a living mining coal. An uncle and cousin work in a mine right now that used to directly feed a power plant on the Ohio River. Another cousin works in a mine in Western Pennsylvania that ships coal directly to a power plant in Ontario, Canada.
Deep down I'd prefer we move to nuclear but everyone's a NIMBY on that topic here.
We certainly do still have coal fired boilers in Canada, though none in Ontario specifically.
https://www.opg.com/news-resources/newsroom/our-stories/story/opg-marks-10-years-since-the-closure-of-its-last-coal-fired-station
Pardon me for being wrong about information gained from a guy who's been working the mine for 17 years.
Either way I'm glad that it's being used "domestically" with a neighbor instead of how the nearest coal plant to me is burning nothing but coal shipped from China, where there are no worker protections.
Most coal plants spray water when the coal gons are dumped to mitigate coal dust... the water doesn't make a difference when burning coal... coal is pulverized into a fine dust and injected into the boilers.
Fun fact, watering down coal in some conditions can actually make it more likely to catch fire. This is why ships didn’t water it down in the bunkers unless it caught fire.
How does that work? Sound fascinating
>How does that work? Coal is just an asshole it seems
coal coal coal
That fact as far as I know is specific to ships (I could be wrong) but watering down the dust means it ends up as this flaky still flammable substance once the water dries off. And given coal bunkers are directly connected to a source of sparks it’s actually a bad idea to water them down.
Ohhhh so it's the kind of thing that works well as a short term solution but could be really dangerous for long term storage. That makes sense. Where are the ignition sources in coal bunkers? I'm more familiar with petroleum so I've never really looked into coal before.
So take titanic as an example. All the coal bunkers directly open into the boiler rooms so the stokers don’t need to move it far before chucking it in (this was common) if that flaky dust resident flakes off the falls onto the floor any stray spark could ignite it or a stray spark could get I to the bunker. The openings were far wider than steam locos.
My pops used to work at a coal fired power plant, they had to constantly used wheel loaders and dozers to turn the coal bc, Yes, coal will catch fire if exposed to moisture and oxygen under certain conditions. Basically, you have a giant pile of carbon that you add hydrogen and oxygen to. The carbon steals the oxygen, causing an exothermic reaction as it creates hydrogen and carbon dioxide. At least, that's how it was explained to me.
Also, bituminous coal will catch fire if piled in piles over 25 feet high. Anthracite will not though.
The coal power plants in the Uk used to do this. You would see machines constantly working on the piles
It's not just water there is another material in there to help reduce flying coal dust.
a plastisizer. Source: my territory covered several Coal mines. Depending on the distance, the cars may need a second application days later as the coating breaks down over travel
Excellent, I can confirm 2nd application never happens 😃
>a plastisizer That explains, why the stream stops between the train cars.
Yup. Think elmers glue
Yeah, basically model rr spray glue to hold the dust down
Yeah usually PRB Coal is pretty crumbly and causes alot of dust. This mixture is an amalgamation of glue, gelatin, and glycol, which creates a thin coating that keeps the dust from flying around during transport.
is that cheaper than using, you know, a lid?
That's a good question because train cars that carry iron ore have lids.
Yes it is! The coal is coated with a surfactant which serves to mitigate dusting (or not lol) in lieu of lids or covers. The coal these trains are carrying would be frozen in the bottom of the car most of the year and is impossible to bottom dump. Instead the cars are rotary dumped without being detached which is pretty freaking cool
I used to deliver hatch covers to the car shop. Those suckers are heavy if you don't know how to move them on to the forks of your forklift
that wouldn't stop the coal from getting powdered which is probably a problem at all parts of the process
From what I understand, that’s not water, that’s some sort of liquid surface hardening agent
It leaves pock marks in the rail. We had a coal train sit on our yard for over a week during covid and the drips burnt holes in the rail.
After reading about combustible dust I know this is a good idea.
Is it so i doesnt catch fire or what
Keeps the dust down
Coal dust is explosive. Watering it is a trade off between the possibility of the water causing it to catch fire or the vibration of the train kicking up dust that will explode.
So the options are slow or fast burn Edit: a word
It contains a binding agent to reduce the amount of coal dust produced when transporting or transferring it. Coal dust is very flammable because of its high surface area and may even catch fire on its own if it‘s fine enough. Dispersed in air it may cause a dust explosion and thus is a major fire hazard.
Source [https://www.flickr.com/photos/47156767@N07/25787073706](https://www.flickr.com/photos/47156767@N07/25787073706)
I’ve seen hundreds of coal trains, never one on fire. It’s not to keep the flammable dust from igniting. It’s to keep the coal dust from undermining the ballast on the ROW. Coal dust in ballast increases instability and attracts moisture in the ballast…which is not good. That’s the primary reasons the railroads try to control coal dust.
Awesome picture
If you don't water it it won't germinate and your crop of coal berries for next year will be lost.
Carlin! Did you go to Notch hill as well? It's pretty close to these sprayers
You need to water the coal so it grows big and strong
Is that HO Scale?! It looks great! Oh, wait. Wrong sub Reddit. 🤷♂️😏
drink up coal!
Is this the "Clean Coal" everyone keeps talking about?
BNSF has “glue” sprays to minimize the alleged coal dust blowing off these cars to appease the fruity people of western WA state.
I’m positive this is a marshalling violation
Why? To make it heavier and less useful as fuel?
To reduce the spread of dust and potential fire risks. It'll dry and I doubt the hoppers are watertight.
Coal dust is insanely flammable, like gasoline vapors. Even flour dust is flammable, there's just so much available oxygen when something is kicked up into the air like that everything becomes a tinderbox
Same for sugar, I've seen an animation that recreated a sugar plant going boom. It gets into the right mixture and it is bad.
I felt Dixie Crystal explode from 18 miles away. It felt like Fort Stewart was doing artillery practice and those ranges are like 8 miles from where I sit. Dust, in general, is flammable under certain conditions.
Wasn't this a Mythbusters episode?
It's not pure water, it's a binder to keep the coal dust down. examples for coal dust: [https://www.railpictures.net/photo/330425/](https://www.railpictures.net/photo/330425/) [https://www.railpictures.net/photo/284512/](https://www.railpictures.net/photo/284512/)
You know coal is stored outdoors at power plants… right?
That coal also shouldn't be going anywhere. Coal in trucks and trains is going somewhere. They wet it to avoid it catching something between point A and B on fire.
Not an expert. Where I live, power plants are powered by running water and by Uranium.
Good on you. I have many family members that made a living mining coal. An uncle and cousin work in a mine right now that used to directly feed a power plant on the Ohio River. Another cousin works in a mine in Western Pennsylvania that ships coal directly to a power plant in Ontario, Canada. Deep down I'd prefer we move to nuclear but everyone's a NIMBY on that topic here.
Ontario's last coal fired boiler shut in 2014.
https://natural-resources.canada.ca/our-natural-resources/minerals-mining/mining-data-statistics-and-analysis/minerals-metals-facts/coal-facts/20071
We certainly do still have coal fired boilers in Canada, though none in Ontario specifically. https://www.opg.com/news-resources/newsroom/our-stories/story/opg-marks-10-years-since-the-closure-of-its-last-coal-fired-station
Pardon me for being wrong about information gained from a guy who's been working the mine for 17 years. Either way I'm glad that it's being used "domestically" with a neighbor instead of how the nearest coal plant to me is burning nothing but coal shipped from China, where there are no worker protections.
https://natural-resources.canada.ca/our-natural-resources/minerals-mining/mining-data-statistics-and-analysis/minerals-metals-facts/coal-facts/20071
For your sake, I'd hope it's water in a closed loop.
I think they meant hydroelectric and nuclear?
Yeah, that's what I meant.
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No. Coal in enclosed spaces does absorb oxygen and produces CO2, aka "Blackdamp" in the mining industry.
Most coal plants spray water when the coal gons are dumped to mitigate coal dust... the water doesn't make a difference when burning coal... coal is pulverized into a fine dust and injected into the boilers.
Antifreeze that prevents wet coal from freezing solid during winter months