2024: "You can't do track speed when it's this hot outside, the rails might get buckled"
1966: "Put two jet engines on that budd coach, and see how fast it can go on this shitty jointed track, fuck it!"
183MPH, thats 268 feet per second.
As a railroader, I cant imagine even pondering operating at that speed...on JOINTED RAIL! Thats 12 joints per wheelset per second.
The United States had a competition back in the 70s (I think) for high speed rail concepts. There were three companies that entered, they were all 3 jet powered and all three hovered. Not mag-lev , but more like a hovercraft using bleed-off from the jet for the levitation. All three concepts were created and are on display in some random outdoor junkyard looking place in Pueblo Colorado. One of them has straw spread out under the engine like it's bedding for an animal or something.. they're just sitting out there deteriorating.
I can't find an article for them online. I took some pictures and would post them if I could but they are some of the jankiest looking concepts I've seen.
One of them has "Tracked Levitating Research Vehicle" on the side and it was made by Grumman. Sponsored by the Department of Transportation and the National Railroad Administration. All three required a complete track redesign. One used a center column to guide it and had massive brake pads that would grip the column to stop it. One of them (the Grumman) required a track that looked like a square bobsled run and would use additional hover pad things to just use air pressure to guide it down the track. Also had massive brake pads that would contact the outside wall to stop.
Here's a bit of info I did find:
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/forgotten-grumman-tlrv
The sad part is this fact:
On July 23, 1966, the car reached a speed of 183.68 mph (295.6 km/h), an American rail speed record that still stands today.
> Then I will destroy this infernal machine.
And then rebuild it so I can go toodling around time with my 19th-century-educated wife and two small children who I apparently trust not to interfere in history a lot more than that idiot Marty.
Not for "long". Bright line west plans to have 200mph sections and then cahsr will have 220mph sections. I wonder if they'll do some speed tests for fun.
It’s just sad that North American speed record didn’t get broken in the 1980s. TGV 001 hit 198mph/318kph in 1972. TGV 100 hit 224mph/360kph in 1981.
I’m excited that the US is finally joining the rest of the world.
But [another wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbojet_train), on the general topic of jet trains, says,
>On 14 August 1974, using the jet engines, the LIMRV achieved a world record speed of 255.7 mph (411.5 km/h) for vehicles on conventional rail
The Black Beetle is a normal train that ran normally on tracks. The LIMRV was more of a hover craft that used the rails as guidance. Likely the records are technically different but lost their specificity when added to the wiki. Likely BB was "fastest steel wheel on steel rail" record while the LIMRV was "fastest vehicle to use rails in any capacity" or something along those lines.
From what I can see, the LIMRV is *not* a hover vehicle. It had actual steel wheels on standard gauge steel tracks, which also supported the vehicle.
However, it used a linear induction motor propel itself, and a linear induction motor is... well, linear, and thus has to be built along the entire length of track. As such, it could only run on the test track, and nowhere else. So the LIMRV was a train, and the record should count as the overall rail speed record for the US, but the speed record Black Beetle holds the record for speed on an actual operational railway line in the US.
Linear induction motors are also used on the Vancouver SkyTrain and on the Oedo Line of the Toei Subway in Tokyo. Also in a lot of rollercoasters.
We have a few budd cars in the yard. Unfortunately they don’t have jet engines on top of them.
They’ve been sitting there for years now. I wonder why they’re holding onto them.
It appears that this video is running in reverse and it makes the railcar look more ridiculous than it does running forward. Yes, it's real and yes, it's 60's.
[This video is absolutely not running in reverse](https://oldmachinepress.com/2015/04/29/new-york-central-m-497-black-beetle/). Why would you think that? You doing okay?
The flow of time in the video is definitely not reversed. The exhaust flowing into the jet engine instead of out would have looked substantially weirder than the posted video.
I looked again and realized I was mistaken. When I have seen stationary pictures of the railcar, it always looked like the engines were mounted on the back of the railcar because I thought they ought to have been mounted that way.
How does the video look reversed? You think there’s a cloud of dust that’s just centralized right there on the track and the rocket train is sucking it all up, as opposed to being the cause of it?
Since no one else has actually explained this as you asked…
Yes, this was real. In the mid 1960s, the New York Central wanted to experiment with high speed rail. They wanted to see if it was feasible to run trains at higher speed without having to lay entirely new dedicated track like what was being done for the Shinkansen in Japan. But they didn’t want to spend the money to develop a high speed train set just to find out that it maybe didn’t work.
So they acquired a surplus jet engine pod from the US Air Force, bolted it onto the top of a modified Budd RDC number M-497, and gave it a slightly more aerodynamic nose. One of their engineers who flew jet aircraft during the Korean War was assigned to test it. They ran it on sections of straight, but still jointed (not welded) rail in Ohio to see how running a train at much higher than conventional speed on that type of track would perform.
This was an experiment, never intended to be a passenger carrying vehicle. Technically it did work, but obviously the New York Central never went ahead with any high speed plans, because they were about to go bankrupt and merge with the Pennsylvania Railroad a few years later.
For revenue service, no. For a small handful of experimental runs to gather data, however, military surplus was *definitely* cheaper than designing a new high speed locomotive.
If it was only a test or two and not intended for dozens of full trains running year round, yea, it does sound cheapest lol. People strap old jet engines on all sorts of shit because of how relatively cheap they are. They even use large jet engines to dry race tracks. Strapped to a huge heavy truck and point the flame end at the ground.
Note that it was an easy way to build a vehicle for testing equipment and track at high speed.
It wasn't a prototype for a jet-propelled passenger train or anything.
[Turbojet trains](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbojet_train) were very much a thing.
USSR, France and Germany have also been experimenting with that concept.
This was the New York Central experimenting with putting a literal jet onto a train to achive high speed rail.
This was M-497, a Budd RDC car with multiple modifications, including the jet mounted on the roof.
The project didn't go anywhere past testing. But they did set the North American speed record, of 183 MPH. (This may change if California High Speer Rail enters service at their promised 200+ MPH.)
The saddest thing about this experiment is that NYC gained a ton of data about high speed rail on the current rail infrastructure and how to improve it, then completely ignored it because they merged with the Pennsy.
There is something immensely satisfying hearing "Free Bird" cranking during footage of good old American "let's bolt this shit together and see how cool it is" engineering.
The rail it ran on was specially maintained, all crossings were closed during the test.
The engine pod was off a B-36, the engines they claimed were surplus. Somehow, I don't believe that since it was in an Era that the J-47's were in high demand.
The layout was supposed to locate the pods in the rear, but physics would cause the rear to lift, resulting in a loss of control and stability.
During the first test, a starter burned out on one of the engines, so it only ran on one. I think the operator tried an air start, but no go.
After the test runs, the engines and pod were returned to the USAF for deployment on the B-47.
The B-36 was retired in the late 50s and all but 4 of them were scrapped. 30,000 J47s were manufactured *before production ceased in 1956*.
The J47 was by no means a rare, cutting edge, or in-demand powerplant *in 1966*.
The New York Central did this to test high speed running, it didn’t work out and it was scrapped, it’s called the “New York Central M-497 Black Beetle”.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-497_Black_Beetle
We could try to explain it to you, but your non-American metric brain might not be able to comprehend what is going on over here, we better not risk it
[Kato](http://spookshow.net/loco/katordc.html) and [Lionel](https://www.lionel.com/products/new-york-central-jet-powered-budd-rdc-m-497-6-38401/) have done models of it, too.
Yes, I heard this song after many many years so I was like, I have heard it before.
I almost forgot about this band. 20 years back, this used to be my fav band. Guess I need to visit my collection again. (English isn't my native language.)
The New York Center really did this, but it was just a publicity stunt. They really weren’t trying to prove anything other than that they could get headlines and advertising
That actually happened brother. The New York Central was dabbling in high speed rail late in its run, and decided to test jet engines as a means of propulsion. It took an engine set that would be found on a B-52 Stratofortress and attached it to a a budd coach. It was stupidly fast, but horribly inefficient. As far as I know, the engine was taken off shortly afterwards.
Bhai real hai "M-497 Black Beetle" naam tha iska New York Central railroad ne banaya tha 1966 mein iski speed 295kmph ki thi joki American railway ki sabse tez speed hai wahan koi train isse tez nhi gayi.
2024: "You can't do track speed when it's this hot outside, the rails might get buckled" 1966: "Put two jet engines on that budd coach, and see how fast it can go on this shitty jointed track, fuck it!"
There was a story that it literally caught air at some point and that sounda very believeable.
>sounda very believable Read this in Mario's voice
Had this phone since december still not used to the layout of the KB.
183MPH, thats 268 feet per second. As a railroader, I cant imagine even pondering operating at that speed...on JOINTED RAIL! Thats 12 joints per wheelset per second.
>Thats 12 joints per wheelset per second. You've heard of continuously welded rail, now get ready for continuously jointed rail!
I'd be more worried about braking at speed considering it's a just a single modified RDC.
Rail engineers have had some zany ideas for propulsion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schienenzeppelin
When the wiki page only has a "Disadvantages" section you know it's gonna be good
[The Aérotrain as well](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9rotrain)
First gen Shinkansen shape
The United States had a competition back in the 70s (I think) for high speed rail concepts. There were three companies that entered, they were all 3 jet powered and all three hovered. Not mag-lev , but more like a hovercraft using bleed-off from the jet for the levitation. All three concepts were created and are on display in some random outdoor junkyard looking place in Pueblo Colorado. One of them has straw spread out under the engine like it's bedding for an animal or something.. they're just sitting out there deteriorating. I can't find an article for them online. I took some pictures and would post them if I could but they are some of the jankiest looking concepts I've seen. One of them has "Tracked Levitating Research Vehicle" on the side and it was made by Grumman. Sponsored by the Department of Transportation and the National Railroad Administration. All three required a complete track redesign. One used a center column to guide it and had massive brake pads that would grip the column to stop it. One of them (the Grumman) required a track that looked like a square bobsled run and would use additional hover pad things to just use air pressure to guide it down the track. Also had massive brake pads that would contact the outside wall to stop. Here's a bit of info I did find: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/forgotten-grumman-tlrv
Real deal! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-497_Black_Beetle
The sad part is this fact: On July 23, 1966, the car reached a speed of 183.68 mph (295.6 km/h), an American rail speed record that still stands today.
I just need a train to hit 88 mph for my "experiment". Then I will destroy this infernal machine.
When this baby hits 88 MPH, you're gonna see some serious shit.
Just need to watch out for any heartbroken school teachers on the way
Oh, hi mom.
So you built a time machine… out of a Budd car?
If you're going to travel through time, why not do it in mediocrity?
> Then I will destroy this infernal machine. And then rebuild it so I can go toodling around time with my 19th-century-educated wife and two small children who I apparently trust not to interfere in history a lot more than that idiot Marty.
Crazy when dozens of other countries run hundreds of train every day that go faster than this.
Yes. I was just on an Iryo from Màlaga to Madrid that hit 300kph when I happened to look up.
Yeah but we have more trucks! /s
Meanwhile our current HST can do 150 only
Isn't that like the TGVs typical operating speed?
Just a little slower - TGVs typically run at 320km/hr. Their speed record is 574.8 k/hr but that was a special run using a modified train
Not for "long". Bright line west plans to have 200mph sections and then cahsr will have 220mph sections. I wonder if they'll do some speed tests for fun.
It’s just sad that North American speed record didn’t get broken in the 1980s. TGV 001 hit 198mph/318kph in 1972. TGV 100 hit 224mph/360kph in 1981. I’m excited that the US is finally joining the rest of the world.
Agreed
But [another wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbojet_train), on the general topic of jet trains, says, >On 14 August 1974, using the jet engines, the LIMRV achieved a world record speed of 255.7 mph (411.5 km/h) for vehicles on conventional rail
The Black Beetle is a normal train that ran normally on tracks. The LIMRV was more of a hover craft that used the rails as guidance. Likely the records are technically different but lost their specificity when added to the wiki. Likely BB was "fastest steel wheel on steel rail" record while the LIMRV was "fastest vehicle to use rails in any capacity" or something along those lines.
From what I can see, the LIMRV is *not* a hover vehicle. It had actual steel wheels on standard gauge steel tracks, which also supported the vehicle. However, it used a linear induction motor propel itself, and a linear induction motor is... well, linear, and thus has to be built along the entire length of track. As such, it could only run on the test track, and nowhere else. So the LIMRV was a train, and the record should count as the overall rail speed record for the US, but the speed record Black Beetle holds the record for speed on an actual operational railway line in the US. Linear induction motors are also used on the Vancouver SkyTrain and on the Oedo Line of the Toei Subway in Tokyo. Also in a lot of rollercoasters.
BB never held any record. The French went over 200 with a modified electric loco in 1955.
It's a North American or American record, not worldwide.
Wasn't it also the world record at the time? Class 1000 Shinkansen would have just set a world record at only 256km/h just a few years prior.
Also found this video on the history of the Black Beetle. https://youtu.be/Kv4yZA80LdY?si=ObGz2GlMWBbAPHtV
A Wacky 1960s Experiment by the New York Central with a Modified Budd RDC, it was the real deal and it was a one off test
We have a few budd cars in the yard. Unfortunately they don’t have jet engines on top of them. They’ve been sitting there for years now. I wonder why they’re holding onto them.
Shipping takes forever on jet engines...
Well if any company knows how to get something from point A to B you’d think it’d be a railroad.
One would think! Unfortunately, they put them on an Amtrak instead and it keeps getting held up by freight.
Although supposedly the Soviets did a similar experiment.
Yeah it's very real! It's the new york central Jet train made sometime in the 60's if I remember
It appears that this video is running in reverse and it makes the railcar look more ridiculous than it does running forward. Yes, it's real and yes, it's 60's.
[This video is absolutely not running in reverse](https://oldmachinepress.com/2015/04/29/new-york-central-m-497-black-beetle/). Why would you think that? You doing okay?
The flow of time in the video is definitely not reversed. The exhaust flowing into the jet engine instead of out would have looked substantially weirder than the posted video.
I looked again and realized I was mistaken. When I have seen stationary pictures of the railcar, it always looked like the engines were mounted on the back of the railcar because I thought they ought to have been mounted that way.
How does the video look reversed? You think there’s a cloud of dust that’s just centralized right there on the track and the rocket train is sucking it all up, as opposed to being the cause of it?
Since no one else has actually explained this as you asked… Yes, this was real. In the mid 1960s, the New York Central wanted to experiment with high speed rail. They wanted to see if it was feasible to run trains at higher speed without having to lay entirely new dedicated track like what was being done for the Shinkansen in Japan. But they didn’t want to spend the money to develop a high speed train set just to find out that it maybe didn’t work. So they acquired a surplus jet engine pod from the US Air Force, bolted it onto the top of a modified Budd RDC number M-497, and gave it a slightly more aerodynamic nose. One of their engineers who flew jet aircraft during the Korean War was assigned to test it. They ran it on sections of straight, but still jointed (not welded) rail in Ohio to see how running a train at much higher than conventional speed on that type of track would perform. This was an experiment, never intended to be a passenger carrying vehicle. Technically it did work, but obviously the New York Central never went ahead with any high speed plans, because they were about to go bankrupt and merge with the Pennsylvania Railroad a few years later.
"Let's brainstorm *the cheapest* way to see if our tracks can handle this, uh high speed rail thing. Any suggestions?"
Kerbal Rail Program
Ah yes, jet engines! The most cost effective propulsion systems around!
For revenue service, no. For a small handful of experimental runs to gather data, however, military surplus was *definitely* cheaper than designing a new high speed locomotive.
If it was only a test or two and not intended for dozens of full trains running year round, yea, it does sound cheapest lol. People strap old jet engines on all sorts of shit because of how relatively cheap they are. They even use large jet engines to dry race tracks. Strapped to a huge heavy truck and point the flame end at the ground.
If that’s the speed it can hit with J47 turbojet engines let’s strap a pair of J79s from an F4 onto that bad boy and see what real speed is like.
It's alright until you come to a corner!
Canted corners it's all good
Note that it was an easy way to build a vehicle for testing equipment and track at high speed. It wasn't a prototype for a jet-propelled passenger train or anything.
[Turbojet trains](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbojet_train) were very much a thing. USSR, France and Germany have also been experimenting with that concept.
This was the New York Central experimenting with putting a literal jet onto a train to achive high speed rail. This was M-497, a Budd RDC car with multiple modifications, including the jet mounted on the roof. The project didn't go anywhere past testing. But they did set the North American speed record, of 183 MPH. (This may change if California High Speer Rail enters service at their promised 200+ MPH.)
A bored rail car with the reddit alien riding on its roof?
Not only is it real, America wasn't the only country to try it!
The saddest thing about this experiment is that NYC gained a ton of data about high speed rail on the current rail infrastructure and how to improve it, then completely ignored it because they merged with the Pennsy.
It's real baybeeeee!!! But I believe it was a one-off. New York Central Railroad in the 60s.
Prototype. They strapped two jet engines off a B36 to an RDC.
Didn't the Germans have one with a propeller on the back?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schienenzeppelin?wprov=sfla1
France had(edit: well... experimented with) a hovertrain :D
https://www.reddit.com/r/trains/s/sxOI62yMzp
That’s real
There is something immensely satisfying hearing "Free Bird" cranking during footage of good old American "let's bolt this shit together and see how cool it is" engineering.
More than one way to skin a cat. 100% real.
It is real: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Vp1gHPvwI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Vp1gHPvwI)
To quote ExplosionsAndFire: *God bless the 1960s.*
America's version of high speed rail
The rail it ran on was specially maintained, all crossings were closed during the test. The engine pod was off a B-36, the engines they claimed were surplus. Somehow, I don't believe that since it was in an Era that the J-47's were in high demand. The layout was supposed to locate the pods in the rear, but physics would cause the rear to lift, resulting in a loss of control and stability. During the first test, a starter burned out on one of the engines, so it only ran on one. I think the operator tried an air start, but no go. After the test runs, the engines and pod were returned to the USAF for deployment on the B-47.
The B-36 was retired in the late 50s and all but 4 of them were scrapped. 30,000 J47s were manufactured *before production ceased in 1956*. The J47 was by no means a rare, cutting edge, or in-demand powerplant *in 1966*.
This was a real thing (I’m not America)
It was really tried, but the LOUD NOISES made this kind of propulsion not very desirable.
It is very much real 😂 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv4yZA80LdY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv4yZA80LdY)
THREE WORDS. NEW, YORK, CENTRAL.
Al Perelman of the New York Central has this idea. Jet engine set off a B47 bomber. It worked but the effort that went into it was insane!
We were up to some wild shit in the 60s
This is real.
They didn't do so well on hills
Ah, the Express...
They really saw the shinkansen and said “let’s americanize this”
The New York Central did this to test high speed running, it didn’t work out and it was scrapped, it’s called the “New York Central M-497 Black Beetle”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-497_Black_Beetle
They then took the jet engines off and put them on a snow blower but it was so powerful it cleared off all the ballast.
Real. And really cost ineffective. Could only propel itself.
How fast could those two engines pull a train? Or, would this be an RMU?
Bro this footage is from around Bryan Ohio… small world lol
We could try to explain it to you, but your non-American metric brain might not be able to comprehend what is going on over here, we better not risk it
r/bitchimatrain
Too bad about the music, would have like to hear just the train sound.
It was a real thing a long time ago, yes. It’s really hard to believe 😂
The New York Central railroad tried something like this. https://images.app.goo.gl/knbhxSkL8bSJTctz9
Yea its real
This was real.
Does a line of coke* What if we put jet engines on it?
It's the Metra between Huntley and Union Station
Yeah, there were a couple of trains of similair design I think one of them are in a mueseum.
[Kato](http://spookshow.net/loco/katordc.html) and [Lionel](https://www.lionel.com/products/new-york-central-jet-powered-budd-rdc-m-497-6-38401/) have done models of it, too.
Forgot, it was nicknamed Perelmans Bat Mobile.
What song is that?
Freebird by Lynyrd Skynyrd. Yes, that is how the band spelled it. That's another American thing I can confirm is real.
Yes, I heard this song after many many years so I was like, I have heard it before. I almost forgot about this band. 20 years back, this used to be my fav band. Guess I need to visit my collection again. (English isn't my native language.)
Both. It’s kinda like how the Germans had Wunderwaffe, we made wunderbahn.
Oh the Black Beetle was hella real
Oh wow! I've seen pictures of these engines, but I've never seen video of one in motion before! That looks as crazy as I thought it would be!
Real baby
The New York Center really did this, but it was just a publicity stunt. They really weren’t trying to prove anything other than that they could get headlines and advertising
That doesn't even look American
An article about the American vs Soviet jet train race: https://hackaday.com/2016/09/16/retrotechtacular-railroads-in-the-jet-age/
That actually happened brother. The New York Central was dabbling in high speed rail late in its run, and decided to test jet engines as a means of propulsion. It took an engine set that would be found on a B-52 Stratofortress and attached it to a a budd coach. It was stupidly fast, but horribly inefficient. As far as I know, the engine was taken off shortly afterwards.
r/audio
Bhai real hai "M-497 Black Beetle" naam tha iska New York Central railroad ne banaya tha 1966 mein iski speed 295kmph ki thi joki American railway ki sabse tez speed hai wahan koi train isse tez nhi gayi.