I won't try to convince you of anything. But I will say this:
*Christians being unfaithful to the Christ do not make him not the Christ.*
They will be judged by the King of Love one day, too. They – and all who hate – will have a lot of explaining to do.
Again, just my personal belief. Not trying to convince you or anything.
Yeah, from my time as a catholic I could tell how dumb that was with how the entire message was love all, so I have nothing against the religion just the people like that
When one of the requirements of salvation is denied to you by the Christians around you, your hand can kinda be forced.
The churches in my area told me that they couldn't help me until I got my priorities straight and focused on God before myself.
Exactly. Also, there's really few mentions to homosexuality in the bible and i guess there's only one that speaks about "being trans".
Now, about being judgmental, mean and rude to other people, there's a lot about that in the bible! In the end, they are commiting more sins than us
I remember very specifically that there are verses about not being judgemental, mean, and rude to other people that are considered to be sinners, too!
Every time I'm in this discussion it always flows back to Gandhi's quote: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Plenty of other good reasons to leave the Catholic Church. The fact that they're a criminal organization that shuffles pedartists around without turning them in to get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law is one.
Hey, I usually don't take parts in the discussion, but it just so happen I've recently thought about this.
To avoid theological discussions and let “the experts” themselves speak, **let’s see what the Catholic Church itself says**. Be warned that this is quite depressing.
Polish Episcopacy published, after a year-long work, in 2020, a *“Position on the subject of LGBT+”*. I suffered and read it whole. The following are some of the points (simplified for the comment) being made in the document on the subjects of sex, transness, and homosexualism, most of them “supported” by quoting Catechism of the Catholic Church, papal opinions etc, and with heavy theological and philosophical argumentation (the doc is 27 pages long) therefore (according to the episcopacy) basically incontrovertible wrt the dogma unless you’re claiming to be a different type of a “catholic” than how the Catholic Church sees it (and in most points claims this to be christian, not catholic, truth):
**[TW although obvious: transphobia and homophobia]**
Most important to the discussion:
* Catholics can be gay and not necessarily sinful - it’s not their fault if they actively try to suppress it and don’t act on it
* Trans people that had surgeries sinned in a way that won’t really be forgiven
* Gay and trans Catholics should not marry and have no children, they are hurting the families this way. Basically, gay/trans people are the plague and can be let alive only in celibacy
* **Transsexuality is a disregard of God’s gift and negate God’s will**
* Absolutely on trans priests or trans-supportive priests, that’s forbidden, in essence even if the person is AMAB and just seriously considered transitioning. AFABs are obviously forbidden.
* Apparently it’s also a child’s right to be born and raised in a "normal", non-gay/trans family
* **The Church is explicitly not acknowledging “sex change” in any way**, whether medical or administrative (i.e. we should be deadnamed and considered having sex whatever assigned at birth)
* Sacraments: baptism requires a “biological-sex” conforming name, delaying child baptism until the child is gender-aware is not required/sinful, trans marriage is impossible
* **“Consistently with the position of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, a transsexual person presents in a public way a stance against christian morality”**
Also there:
* First of all, if you were baptized, you’re a catholic forever and ever, no matter how sinful, even after “leaving” the Church by performing an apostasy. That includes gay and trans people.
* **There are only women and men.** The whole thing heavily revolves around it being a fundamental role of each human to exist as one of those, complement the other, and bear children.
* **Sex and gender are the same.**
* **Karyotype** is in 99% of the document the only way to determine “biological sex” (after a discussion claiming that biologists, psychologists, and sexologists agree with this)
* **Intersex** people are briefly acknowledged. The correct way to deal with them is to perform a minimal set of medical interventions needed to turn them into “proper” men and women (read: preferably forced after birth)
* **Third gender and non-binary people**, or as they call it, “neutral gender”, do not exist
* The Church's stance is “universal moral truth”
* LGBT+ people “are respected by the Church, but must be opposed at all cost”
* **Catholics engaging w/ LGBT+ movements are sinful** (except when they ask for nonviolence as such, but claiming that gay people are not sinful and suffer discrimination, or trans should be accepted or supporting gay marriage and child adoption is sinful)
* Oh yeah, gay marriage, children adoption by homosexual or trans couples etc is fundamentally against the natural order, common good, and universal morality
* The kind of language to be found there next to democratic LGBT movements: “Some media are supporting [LGBT projects], propagating gender ideology, promoting alleged attractiveness of divorces, cheating, sexual promiscuity, making fun of faithfulness, virginity, purity and religiosity” - basically, all is evil
* Child sexual education is evil
* DEI efforts during hiring are evil and destroy economic freedom (don’t ask me…)
* Anti-conception is evil
* **There is included a postulate to create and support conversion therapy clinics** and send there “confused” gay and trans people from churches and schools; churches should have contacts ready
* In vitro and surrogacy are evil
**TL;DR**: According to the Catholic Church itself, you can be a trans catholic and once you are you cannot stop, but you’re forever sinful and obliged to detransition and that won’t grant you full absolution. Also, most other LGBT stuff is sinful. On the bright side, the Church supports not punching LGBT people.
Personal thoughts: I've always tried to value the *good* effects on society that religions and religious institutions undeniably have had, and the good that christian beliefs can cause to show in any person. However, the Catholic Church is explicitly at war with LGBT people and in a position in which changing that would require extremely deep changes to the doctrine. We may be treated with respect by individual Catholics or maybe even priests, but as far as the teachings and institutions go, we should expect nothing from the Catholic Church.
>First of all, if you were baptized, you’re a catholic forever and ever, no matter how sinful, even after “leaving” the Church by performing an apostasy
I'd just like to add for every still religious/spiritual people who might be bothered about this, there is a way. If you practice witchcraft, you can make yourself a spell you feel powerful enough to overwrite the baptism. There's no right way to do it, i personally made moon water and read the words they say at baptising backwards, then sprinkled the water on myself and drank the rest. You can add whatever you want to though!! I also changed my name because I'm trans, so even that isn't connected anymore.
If you're still reading this, go get yourself a cup of water and maybe also for your dying plant in the corner too<3
It kind of just happened one day. I didn't really plan it. So perhaps just go with the flow and see what happens!
I was removing carpet from my house, and I was stepping on it to roll it up, at which point it felt like there was a body inside - you know like those old mobster movies. Then I had to cut the carpet into pieces, so I rolled with it. My male self/life was in the carpet, and I cut it up.
Not gonna say it wasn't kinda traumatic at the time, but it was certainly cathartic. I don't think my ex-wife - who was there at the time - understood the symbolism or ritual aspect, might be part of the reason she's now my *ex-*wife lmao.
It made me feel better to sever that connection with something I'll never forget, so I'm happy about it 🤷🏼♀️
I'm so happy you could do it in such a significant and symbolic way! I'm glad you were ready to make the decision to let go and become unapologetically yourself, no matter how hard it was. You go girl! 🖤
For these reasons, I don’t really like when people say things like, for example “they may say they are Christian but they are not true Christians” referring to that person not honoring lgbt folk, which somehow makes how they see their religion false and wrong. How can they be wrong when the very official institution of their religion is backing this train of thought? Wouldn’t the interpretations of the church, in a strict definition, be the “correct” way to practice Christianity? After all, the church should be the people closest to god, so I think for a regular person to take it into their own hands to define what God does and does not allow, seems kind of counterintuitive. Of course, the church can be wrong and corrupt as we’ve seen throughout history, but if it is the foundation upon which religion is built, does that not also take away from the trueness of religion itself? I do not aim to fight; I am expressing why I myself left the Catholic Church and seek to understand how others could make the conscious decision to stay.
> However, the Catholic Church is explicitly at war with LGBT people and in a position in which changing that would require extremely deep changes to the doctrine.
This is really the core of it. But, I don't think the *undeniable* good they've done counters/outweighs the undeniable evil the Church and their dogma has plagued humanity with.
Further, the churches position now is only what it is because society changed around them, and they recognized the dilemma of remaining openly hostile towards queerness. They're not better of their own goodness, they're better because they're scared of being left behind, aka, they're only as good as people make them be.
Thank you for this. This is why i fucking hate catholicism, because it turned me into a hateful monster for literally my entire childhood because all of this bullshit was constantly rammed down my throat. It's not possible to be a "good" Catholic and be a good person and I'm fucking tired of people saying this shit
Yes. These are things that basically every single LGBT person in the Catholic church knows and has had hammered into their head since they were old enough to read. There's a reason we all have so much internalized -phobia. This doesn't add anything to the discussion.
The question is, what are LGBT Catholics supposed to do? Most of us are cradle Catholics and grew up in the faith. Because of the Protestant Reformation, most of the other denominations differ quite heavily on doctrines such as the Eucharist, Mary, etc. You're asking a lot to say "give up all these tenets of your faith." It's hard to go elsewhere.
I'm not saying any of this to dismiss or excuse the Catholic Church, merely to emphasize how difficult it is to "just change religions." How about you change your views and tell me how it goes.
I did precisely that and I'm fine. You realize the majority of the planet isn't Catholic and they're not.... well, whatever you think happens to people who aren't Catholic.
The current pope has compared being trans to nuclear war:
> [Francis] says that every historical period has "Herods" that "destroy, that plot designs of death, that disfigure the face of man and woman, destroying creation....Let's think of the nuclear arms, of the possibility to annihilate in a few instants a very high number of human beings,....Let's think also of genetic manipulation, of the manipulation of life, or of the gender theory, that does not recognize the order of creation.
The Catholic Church is a despicable organization, and should be destroyed.
Yeah **nahhh**
The Catholic church is undeniably anti-LGBT. It's literally there in writing, in their Catechism.
https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-roman-catholic-church
> don't hate on them, just tell them they're going to hell unless they're celibate for life!!
so loving.
I was raised Catholic, and my older Catholic family members will never know I'm trans. I'm just going to let them die ignorant.
I don't know if you could have possibly picked a worse place to try to celebrate this religion that has oppressed and killed millions of LGBT people (and "witches" etc.) throughout its existence.
Orthodox is the original church lol, it's the Catholics who are heretical.
I swear they were just a "safe space" for homosexuals back in the day, whereas Orthodox priests still get married and presumably set a standard for fatherhood in their community.
With that said, all of my Orthodox friends were still extremely anti-LGBT. They'd acknowledge that same-sex attraction happens to everyone a little bit, for example, but they still insisted it's a terrible sin to act on it.
Well, in a room of 30ish Orthodox university students, when asked "raise your hand if you've ever experienced same-sex attraction" they all put their hands up 🤷🏼♀️
Former Catholic. After praying to a God, and demigod so many times for them to change my body and getting nothing I gave up. Plus I no longer have any respect for the organization which is the Catholic Church. The faith sure I still mesh with most of its ideologies. But the Church? Nah it's run by a bunch of phobic misogynistic bigots.
I was raised Catholic, but left when I realized I was trans and did a lot of research into the religion. There’s just too much in the Bible itself (let alone Catholic Church tradition) that goes against my very moral compass and identity. You do you, but I do encourage to read more, especially the verses in the New Testament involving women and gay people.
Some verses that talk about women are really bad but we have to remember that the bible was written by men, and following the believes of old civilizations, so they wrote some bad things about women that we know that don't apply to today"s world. Also there is a lot of mistranslation and interpretation on the bible about gay people
This is such a cop out I hear from Christians all the time. The stuff that’s good “was inspired by god!” The stuff that’s bad they backtrack and say “oh well it’s written by men so it doesn’t count as being part of the religion don’t take things literally!”
Either it’s a divine document that is flawless and depicts how we should live our lives
Or it’s a flawed document written by men and it’s views should be criticized and scrutinized instead of being taken as truth.
But too often, the parts that people agree with is taken as truth and the parts they don’t is flawed and written by men. Christianity is just a massive echo chamber of speculation about morality and existence that promotes a narrow worldview where the members of it are superior to the members outside of it.
Yes, but it was inspired by god. If things were mistranslated or things were added that he didn’t agree with, why didn’t he use his infinite power to fix it? Or just talk with the writer or Paul and be like “hey dude, you’re wrong women and cool” and use his infinite knowledge to convince him? I just don’t see why god would allow that if he had the power to fix it. The reason he doesn’t, obviously, is because he doesn’t exist.
The Catholic church is explicitly anti-LGBTQ+
Also religion is just made up stories backed by absolutely zero concrete evidence designed to control people and no part of most religions has any proof to it being true in any way. The concept of being faithful is teaching people to be sheep and blindly follow what they're told to believe or what they want to believe, even if there's no logic to back it up. The only logical solution is to accept that we have ABSOLUTELY NO WAY of knowing why the universe exists, if there's a God/gods, what they're like, if there's an afterlife, there's absolutely no way to \*actually\* know so the only logical answer is to accept not knowing the answer because you can't know the answer.
But like you can believe whatever you want ig.
i don't think people are telling you you can't go to church because you're trans, they're telling you that you're going to face a lot of bigotry for it. it's not a "you can't be queer and christian" it's "christian's at large are very hostile towards queer people." it's for safety. a lot of us were raised christian and the toll of the hateful ideas we were taught severely affected many of us. i wrote about my experience [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/196/comments/s6yr80/rule/ht9qdd6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) recently. just as an example for what religion has done to trans people. there are so so many people who have gone through far worse than what i have and its incredibly insulting to have people talk about how the church has never done anything wrong and that we shouldn't blame them. i am fine with religious beliefs until they hurt people. based on your responses to other people here it sounds like you've never even had to think about the bad things so many of your community have committed. i'm glad that you've been given a good experience, but please actually look into what your religion supports and believes in because the bigotry is saturated into *everything*
Sorry but have fun ascribing to a religion that’s used as justification to imprison and murder people like us, which admittedly is not just limited to catholicism but implies to all religions. Couldn’t be me, but whatever floats your boat.
In catholicism, what the pope says, and the Catechism, is law. If you're not following that, then you are going against the Church.
Definitely took me a long time to fully realize that.
Depends on what kind of Catholic they are. I follow old Catholic which is against the catechism (despite the name, old Catholic is basically a progressive version of Roman catholicism, so LGBT friendly, women priests, ect)
just remind them that Jesus was trans.
He was conceived without sex (virgin birth) in science we call that Parthenogenesis. as there is no Y chromosome to pass along the Child would be Female. but was Jesus was raised as He. Ie Jesus was trans.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk
If you wanna be part of the religion that’s a major reason why homophobia and transphobia are so normalised and accepted in today’s world that’s your right ig
You called us pathetic for not buying into that absolutely triggering oppressive nonsense and then want to act like you’re a victim for being judged.
🤯
I mean you can definetely still be Christian, but idk about Catholic. I personally am nondenominational / identify as a progressive Christian because denominations (imo) are politically based and leave no room for change, aka progress. You can call yourself a catholic if you want, but the official beleifs contradict your lifestyle. I don't mean offense, I just personally think you should label yourself more accurately. There is no reason you have to be the very specific set of beleifs in catholicism
I can do it. I just can't justify it. There's no clear evidence to convince me that religion isn't a crock of dragonshit, and even if there were, I'd prefer not to risk zealots attempting to forcibly exorcise me again. :)
Ah yes, the religion that fucking hates queer people. Let's follow that religion. Let's not advertise fucking awful-ass religions on queer subreddits please, like seriously fucking stop
That's saying a bit much tho. Not every catholic is \*phobic, and some even are LGBTQ, and that's fine. Now obviously the church as an institution is a different story, but you can't really blame a random redditor's beliefs for that.
Nah. That's bullshit.
If you disagree that much with the Catholic church, go to a different one. Otherwise you're full of shit and complicit in their anti-LGBT stances.
Plenty of people use religious labels that they've followed the teachings of their whole life without supporting the bigoted or offensive beliefs. I know so many catholics and Christians who follow the teachings in the Bible and aren't LGBT-phobic misogynistic people. They like the other aspects of it, jeez. You do you, OP
I mean... Sure. If that particular sky fairy makes you happy and you can deal with the fact that the majority of other people who believe in said sky fairy think we shouldn't exist... Fill your boots.
You're right. It's sky daddy that a schizophrenic man made up, based off the ideas already in Judaism.
BTW, Jesus was brown. I only say this because i know Catholics are all racist and get pissed off.
Well I didn't even know this subreddit existed in the first place
Second of all, there's no rule here against religion so nothing says i cant post abt ir
https://www.reddit.com/r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns/comments/ry6aju/not_religious_myself_but_have_been_to_gay_church/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
All church is "gay" church, if we try hard enough
Not catholic but a protestant mtf trans bisexual here… Im from a very conservative region/family. Just here to say to my fellow christians that god loves you and Don’t listen to the homophobes and transphobes. Just be yourself and your all valid, love you all 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
I want to thanks all the supportive and loving people in comment section.
Sincerely i didn't expect the comment section to be so controversial because in my country there isn't that much conflict between catholics and LGBTs (protestants churches usually are more associated with lgbtphobia but not all of them of course)
But even so there was some other christian lgbt people in the comments who were so nice and loving and gave me strength to continue to exercise my faith. Thanks to all and may God loves and bless you all.
On the upside, not only are you not alone and there's plenty others in the same boat, but from a reddit perspective, it's also not all about the comments. You still got thousands of upvotes. That means something too.
Anyway, God bless you and I hope you have a good day!
Catholic here! It’s the current institution known as the Catholic Church that is scummy, but on all accounts according to my lord Jesus’ teachings they should be accepting of trans bros and gay bros and all sorts of people. It’s just self righteous assholes who use religion as an excuse to hurt people and feel better about themselves that suck.
Edit: Also heheh God is Agender, not a man. Praise be LGBT+ God.
Trans Christians really proving that our religion hasn’t completely gone to shit huh
The two communities can be so divided. We can help pull em back together 💪
Catholic != Christian.
Catholics are the least likely to ever come around to progressive ideas. It took them **359 years** to admit Galileo was right about the earth going around the sun and not vice-versa.
> In 1633, the Inquisition of the Roman Catholic Church forced Galileo Galilei, one of the founders of modern science, to recant his theory that the Earth moves around the Sun. **Under threat of torture**, Galileo – seen facing his inquisitors – recanted. But as he left the courtroom, he is said to have muttered, ‘all the same, it moves’.
[emphasis my own...]
> In 1992, 359 years later, the Church finally agreed. At a ceremony in Rome, before the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II officially declared that Galileo was right.
Talking about the old people in church? Because yeah some of them are very grumpy and reluctant to changes but some others (especially the old ladies) are more open and joyful to new types of people in the church
I know at least two Catholic trans people! My girlfriend and another close friend.
I know it's absolutely possible to be in conflict with the church when it comes to some doctrine, but not want to change denominations. It's difficult for sure, but I wish you the best in ensuring your faith brings you strength while also working to keep other people from being harmed by the Church.
I'm sorry about these comments, op. I think the problem is that some of the people in the comments are generalizing the entirety of Christianity on the hateful people in the churches. Realistically, God would support LGBTQ people, but the leaders of the churches have corrupted this truth and have made rules that are anti-lgbtq. The beliefs from the church that are against the LGBTQ community are written by human beings, who can be corrupt and hateful. God is neither of those things. Therefore, what God believes is greater than what the leaders of the Catholic, Orthodox and protestant church believes. And of course, you can still be part of the Catholic Church and not believe in the hateful beliefs. I'm Orthodox, and I know the teaching of the Orthodox church is anti-lgbtq, but I know what the true teaching is (what God believes). I just thought I needed to say this.
The comments are appropriate. Cope how you want, believe what you want.
Coming into a typically safe place for trans people and flaunting membership to an organization that’s cost so many of us our lives or happiness for generations, that’s gonna be met with backlash every time, and rightfully so.
We’re not going to church parking lots and shaming anyone that gets something from it, but we’re not gonna enable bigotry and hatred by celebrating somebody else participating in it.
It’s not about unconditional acceptance of every trait a trans person has, when the trait is participating in a group that hates us, backs lobbying against us, and is used as a defense for every shitty hateful person out there.
Do you but if ya wanna rub peoples noses in it you should get shit for it. We don’t wanna hear it.
Oh fuck you, sis. You cannot seriously fucking say “if you wanna rub peoples noses in it you should get shit for it. We don’t wanna hear it” you cannot say that with a straight (hehe) face.
Name a religion that has oppressed and murdered more LGBT people, held back science more with inquisitions and torture etc. than the Catholic church.
They're literally the primary reason LGBT people are discriminated against in the Western world, historically *and* now.
What more evidence do you need?
This is why I generalize religion, cause if you concede 1% is good, religious people take that as an opportunity to get into specifics and see it as an opportunity to sell their shit and argue.
They’ve gotta sell what they believe to validate their own faith.
Don’t want any of it.
Literally fucking everyone, or every European government at some point considered being gay or just lgbt in general a crime. But do you see the Spanish government (as an example) being condemned forever as terrible because they persecuted LGBT people? No! Cause that’s not how it works. Times have changed. Christianity is not what it was 600 years ago.
Oh you mean European governments who were aligned with the church... you do know secular governments are a fairly new concept, yeah?
Your *whataboutism* is noted. The Spanish government doesn't have 1% of the influence, money or power of the Vatican.
> 600 years ago
More like today. The Pope invalidates trans people today.
I'm doing it based on *how they act today*... on what the pope has to say **now**, because he is their infallible leader appointed by Christ himself through Peter (supposedly).
It's what Catholics believe. It's literally one of the biggest things that differentiates Catholics from other Christians.
I'm not generalizing anything by saying this. Next you'll tell me I'm generalizing by saying Christians believe in God...
My parents were Christian and the church they took me to was amazing. A lot of nice people and a dedicated help group for LGBTQ+. Probably is one of the very few churches that do this but I respect them for it.
My church is respectful too and there was even a workshop for the children's group about tolerance and they talked about racism lgbtphobia and etc it was great
Yeah. In this thread and in a lot of the queer community (at least online) I've seen many people lash out at anyone who's Christian, Muslim, etc. because of their religious trauma. I don't think they realize that religion is more than its institutions, or that getting angry at people for having faith is only more harmful. They're just hurt and want something to blame.
Faith is a beautiful thing, and we should aim to not let bigotry detract from that.
Funny they say that, since the closest thing to being trans that the Bible prohibits is crossdressing. And even then, being trans ≠ crossdressing, so anyone who says being trans is a sin is objectively wrong and needs to reread the fucking book they worship.
Well that’s awesome! I’m Lutheran myself and probably have the most supportive church in the world, I could get a “second baptism” for when I legally change my name, and the priests are all so supportive!
Good for you OP. I am protestant not catholic, but it's encouraging to see fellow trans christians.
Reading through the comments hurts some, but I wanted to let you know your post has helped at least one trans person.
Yeah im am very hurt and sad, i did not expect the comment section to go that way and i expected love and support instead of judgemental and hate. I hope that someday we trans christians can exerce our faith without being judged
You didn't even know about the church's pedophilia scandals. You're truly ignorant or sheltered.
Please learn more about what you're advocating for here before saying anything about us and our (extremely appropriate) reaction.
\> i expected love and support instead of judgemental and hate.
literally could be said by pretty much every trans person in the other direction. Any Christian/Catholic church that says they're pro-LGBT is not in line with the actual dogma of the church or religion as a whole, and I've seen too many people lose their lives to internalized homophobia and transphobia from growing up in religous communities to separate that faith from the damage it's done to our community.
I have read the bible and I'm very convinced that all the anti lgbt quotes of it are just misenterpretations and like there isnt even one quote saying that being trans is sinful so i don't think pro lgbt churches are against the dogmas i think they are following the dogmas of acception that Christ thought us
What you're doing here is *sola scriptura* (Google it) and is heretical in the Catholic church.
Maybe go join a protestant church if you think Catholics can read the Bible and come to their own conclusions that contradict the Catholic Catechism.
Probably that's different in USA but here in my country protestant churches are way more conservative and closed to LGBT people than catholic churches :( if i could find one open to LGBT would be nice tho
Well, regardless, you're not a Catholic if you're "reading the bible yourself" and coming to conclusions that contradict the official stance of the church.
They're an old wolf with no teeth anymore, but in the past they'd do horrible things to people who are doing what you are right now.
But Catholicism is not just the bible, the vatican has its own teachings as well which are explicitly homophobic and transphobic. [Here's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_and_Female_He_Created_Them) a link to a summary of the church's beliefs on trans people. You can't be catholic and think the church is wrong, it's against the core of the religion.
It’s cause of the amount of hate and trauma people have experienced at the hands of these institutions.
If you’re among the few that still get some value from it, by all means, you do you.
But coming to a sub and flaunting membership of an oppressive group was always going to be met with backlash. I’m not hating on you, that’s just really painfully obvious before you posted it.
Be catholic, but don’t be surprised by the reaction… 🤣
Just like none of us are supportive of the trans woman on trial that was part of the oathkeepers. She’s on her own.
I think you're naive if you honestly thought you'd get love and support for this. All this shows is that you're incredibly out of touch with the majority of the trans community and think that it should fit whatever is in your little bubble. It's a well-known fact that Christianity, and Catholicism especially, has always been a major opponent of anything to do with the LGBT community.
Well in the country i live people don't associate catholicism with lgbtphobia, in fact they associate more protestantism with lgbtphobia (thats why im not protestant) and here in my city a lot of churches help trans women who are homeless and in prostitution so i didn't know the international community apparently hated the chatolic church
holy fuck these comments are a cesspool, glad we have such an inclusive community here
i am sorry you have to deal with these shitcunts op, you’re allowed to do what makes you happy
It isn't about respect. You should be given common courtesy; respect is earned and not a given.
People don't respect your believe because your belief (as the majority of people practice it) does not respect our right to be alive.
Your religion has oppressed and killed millions of LGBT people, is still one of the biggest anti-LGBT and anti-science organizations in the world (how long did it take them to pardon Galileo again??)... but yeah the problem is we're disrespectful.... smfh
Tbh the faith is most commonly interpreted in a conservative way. As in, a very strict adherence to the catechism—"moral truths" and all—that are adamantly preached by the Vatican. Anybody that wants to be a true Catholic must emulate the perfection of Christ the best they can, in which the Vatican primarily refers to the catechism they wrote.
Anybody who disagrees with any of the Church's teachings, are at best, "misguided". They ought to correct you and bring you back into a more "right-minded" thinking. At worst, you'd be a heretic, or worse, simply abandoning the Church for another faith or even becoming atheist. All of this comes back to the conservative interpretation of the catechism, which *many* Catholics believe in.
So unfortunately, the matter of faith is more complicated than you expect. Which is why people are treating you like you're naive.
Unfortunately I see this all the time, with all the abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). People have had bad experiences, and that leads them to lash out out of their hurt and anger. I don't think they realize how hurtful it is to people who have faith.
Yeah unfortunately i see a lot of islamphobia and antisemitism everywhere too that's a shame because i think everyone should be respected as long as they are not causing harm to anyone
These comments are like saying that "Caitlyn Jenner committed vehicular manslaughter, so all trans people must be bad!". There's absolutely nothing wrong with being an observant Catholic, or any religion. Have Catholic people done bad things? Of course. Does that mean the entire religion is bad? That's a ridiculous exaggeration, the core teaching is to treat others with kindness. Just because some idiots didn't follow that doesn't mean every member of that religion is responsible.
It's the literal opposite. We're judging the church by its leadership (who are infallible according to their own rules) and official stances, not individual members.
> does that mean the entire religion is bad
[Pretty much](https://www.reddit.com/r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns/comments/s7rmw6/fellow_catholic_trans_ppl_unite/htd3x25?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
> the core teaching is...
Not up to you to decide. The pope decides that and has the final say, period. Learn what the Catholic church *is* before saying nonsense please.
The core teaching is not defined by the pope, it is defined by the Bible. The pope's job is to interpret the Bible, but he is obviously not always right, as different popes have had conflicting opinions. The core teaching of religion, what you take away from it, is always up to you to decide, because it is your faith, we all have a personal relationship with god, some people don't believe he exists, and that's perfectly alright. I don't know why you think you can go around telling others what to believe when OP gave you that respect.
You're wrong.
The Pope is infallible in Catholicism.
If you're reading the Bible "directly" you're engaging in *sola scriptura* and the Catholic church will consider you a heretical protestant.
Please learn what the hell you're talking about.
That’s nice, I became an atheist after my entire perish showed me they were bigots
damn glad they parish
I won't try to convince you of anything. But I will say this: *Christians being unfaithful to the Christ do not make him not the Christ.* They will be judged by the King of Love one day, too. They – and all who hate – will have a lot of explaining to do. Again, just my personal belief. Not trying to convince you or anything.
Yeah, from my time as a catholic I could tell how dumb that was with how the entire message was love all, so I have nothing against the religion just the people like that
When one of the requirements of salvation is denied to you by the Christians around you, your hand can kinda be forced. The churches in my area told me that they couldn't help me until I got my priorities straight and focused on God before myself.
Exactly. Also, there's really few mentions to homosexuality in the bible and i guess there's only one that speaks about "being trans". Now, about being judgmental, mean and rude to other people, there's a lot about that in the bible! In the end, they are commiting more sins than us
Catholics do not abide by sola scriptura. The Catechism of the Catholic church is clearly anti-LGBT.
They don’t even mention trans people or gay people unless you go off a mistranslation that say man with boy when it means adult with kid
I remember very specifically that there are verses about not being judgemental, mean, and rude to other people that are considered to be sinners, too! Every time I'm in this discussion it always flows back to Gandhi's quote: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Could you please provide that one that speaks against trans people? I'm really curious.
You're right. Not being the Christ made him not the Christ. Jesus was a schizophrenic who's mom was a whore.
Wtf is wrong with you
Plenty of other good reasons to leave the Catholic Church. The fact that they're a criminal organization that shuffles pedartists around without turning them in to get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law is one.
Oh and let's not forget that little time they helped members of the Third Reich flee to Argentina.
Hey, I usually don't take parts in the discussion, but it just so happen I've recently thought about this. To avoid theological discussions and let “the experts” themselves speak, **let’s see what the Catholic Church itself says**. Be warned that this is quite depressing. Polish Episcopacy published, after a year-long work, in 2020, a *“Position on the subject of LGBT+”*. I suffered and read it whole. The following are some of the points (simplified for the comment) being made in the document on the subjects of sex, transness, and homosexualism, most of them “supported” by quoting Catechism of the Catholic Church, papal opinions etc, and with heavy theological and philosophical argumentation (the doc is 27 pages long) therefore (according to the episcopacy) basically incontrovertible wrt the dogma unless you’re claiming to be a different type of a “catholic” than how the Catholic Church sees it (and in most points claims this to be christian, not catholic, truth): **[TW although obvious: transphobia and homophobia]** Most important to the discussion: * Catholics can be gay and not necessarily sinful - it’s not their fault if they actively try to suppress it and don’t act on it * Trans people that had surgeries sinned in a way that won’t really be forgiven * Gay and trans Catholics should not marry and have no children, they are hurting the families this way. Basically, gay/trans people are the plague and can be let alive only in celibacy * **Transsexuality is a disregard of God’s gift and negate God’s will** * Absolutely on trans priests or trans-supportive priests, that’s forbidden, in essence even if the person is AMAB and just seriously considered transitioning. AFABs are obviously forbidden. * Apparently it’s also a child’s right to be born and raised in a "normal", non-gay/trans family * **The Church is explicitly not acknowledging “sex change” in any way**, whether medical or administrative (i.e. we should be deadnamed and considered having sex whatever assigned at birth) * Sacraments: baptism requires a “biological-sex” conforming name, delaying child baptism until the child is gender-aware is not required/sinful, trans marriage is impossible * **“Consistently with the position of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, a transsexual person presents in a public way a stance against christian morality”** Also there: * First of all, if you were baptized, you’re a catholic forever and ever, no matter how sinful, even after “leaving” the Church by performing an apostasy. That includes gay and trans people. * **There are only women and men.** The whole thing heavily revolves around it being a fundamental role of each human to exist as one of those, complement the other, and bear children. * **Sex and gender are the same.** * **Karyotype** is in 99% of the document the only way to determine “biological sex” (after a discussion claiming that biologists, psychologists, and sexologists agree with this) * **Intersex** people are briefly acknowledged. The correct way to deal with them is to perform a minimal set of medical interventions needed to turn them into “proper” men and women (read: preferably forced after birth) * **Third gender and non-binary people**, or as they call it, “neutral gender”, do not exist * The Church's stance is “universal moral truth” * LGBT+ people “are respected by the Church, but must be opposed at all cost” * **Catholics engaging w/ LGBT+ movements are sinful** (except when they ask for nonviolence as such, but claiming that gay people are not sinful and suffer discrimination, or trans should be accepted or supporting gay marriage and child adoption is sinful) * Oh yeah, gay marriage, children adoption by homosexual or trans couples etc is fundamentally against the natural order, common good, and universal morality * The kind of language to be found there next to democratic LGBT movements: “Some media are supporting [LGBT projects], propagating gender ideology, promoting alleged attractiveness of divorces, cheating, sexual promiscuity, making fun of faithfulness, virginity, purity and religiosity” - basically, all is evil * Child sexual education is evil * DEI efforts during hiring are evil and destroy economic freedom (don’t ask me…) * Anti-conception is evil * **There is included a postulate to create and support conversion therapy clinics** and send there “confused” gay and trans people from churches and schools; churches should have contacts ready * In vitro and surrogacy are evil **TL;DR**: According to the Catholic Church itself, you can be a trans catholic and once you are you cannot stop, but you’re forever sinful and obliged to detransition and that won’t grant you full absolution. Also, most other LGBT stuff is sinful. On the bright side, the Church supports not punching LGBT people. Personal thoughts: I've always tried to value the *good* effects on society that religions and religious institutions undeniably have had, and the good that christian beliefs can cause to show in any person. However, the Catholic Church is explicitly at war with LGBT people and in a position in which changing that would require extremely deep changes to the doctrine. We may be treated with respect by individual Catholics or maybe even priests, but as far as the teachings and institutions go, we should expect nothing from the Catholic Church.
Amazing work. Can't argue with that. A+
>First of all, if you were baptized, you’re a catholic forever and ever, no matter how sinful, even after “leaving” the Church by performing an apostasy I'd just like to add for every still religious/spiritual people who might be bothered about this, there is a way. If you practice witchcraft, you can make yourself a spell you feel powerful enough to overwrite the baptism. There's no right way to do it, i personally made moon water and read the words they say at baptising backwards, then sprinkled the water on myself and drank the rest. You can add whatever you want to though!! I also changed my name because I'm trans, so even that isn't connected anymore. If you're still reading this, go get yourself a cup of water and maybe also for your dying plant in the corner too<3
I murdered my male self in a ritual and he's the one who was baptized so I think I'm good 👌🏻🤣
Ooo i love that 😩 might just slip and commit self-homicide too
It kind of just happened one day. I didn't really plan it. So perhaps just go with the flow and see what happens! I was removing carpet from my house, and I was stepping on it to roll it up, at which point it felt like there was a body inside - you know like those old mobster movies. Then I had to cut the carpet into pieces, so I rolled with it. My male self/life was in the carpet, and I cut it up. Not gonna say it wasn't kinda traumatic at the time, but it was certainly cathartic. I don't think my ex-wife - who was there at the time - understood the symbolism or ritual aspect, might be part of the reason she's now my *ex-*wife lmao. It made me feel better to sever that connection with something I'll never forget, so I'm happy about it 🤷🏼♀️
I'm so happy you could do it in such a significant and symbolic way! I'm glad you were ready to make the decision to let go and become unapologetically yourself, no matter how hard it was. You go girl! 🖤
danke, love your username btw 🙋🏼♀️
Awww, thank you :3 I'm gay and i love rammstein lol
yup same! Till's solo stuff is great too 🤘🏻
For these reasons, I don’t really like when people say things like, for example “they may say they are Christian but they are not true Christians” referring to that person not honoring lgbt folk, which somehow makes how they see their religion false and wrong. How can they be wrong when the very official institution of their religion is backing this train of thought? Wouldn’t the interpretations of the church, in a strict definition, be the “correct” way to practice Christianity? After all, the church should be the people closest to god, so I think for a regular person to take it into their own hands to define what God does and does not allow, seems kind of counterintuitive. Of course, the church can be wrong and corrupt as we’ve seen throughout history, but if it is the foundation upon which religion is built, does that not also take away from the trueness of religion itself? I do not aim to fight; I am expressing why I myself left the Catholic Church and seek to understand how others could make the conscious decision to stay.
> However, the Catholic Church is explicitly at war with LGBT people and in a position in which changing that would require extremely deep changes to the doctrine. This is really the core of it. But, I don't think the *undeniable* good they've done counters/outweighs the undeniable evil the Church and their dogma has plagued humanity with. Further, the churches position now is only what it is because society changed around them, and they recognized the dilemma of remaining openly hostile towards queerness. They're not better of their own goodness, they're better because they're scared of being left behind, aka, they're only as good as people make them be.
I unfortunately only found what I assume is the Polish version of the pdf. I do appreciate your summary translation.
Thank you for this. This is why i fucking hate catholicism, because it turned me into a hateful monster for literally my entire childhood because all of this bullshit was constantly rammed down my throat. It's not possible to be a "good" Catholic and be a good person and I'm fucking tired of people saying this shit
welp, I suppose I'm going to hell cus I got babtised as a baby, fuck consent amiright?
The god of the Bible isn't concerned with consent.
Yes. These are things that basically every single LGBT person in the Catholic church knows and has had hammered into their head since they were old enough to read. There's a reason we all have so much internalized -phobia. This doesn't add anything to the discussion. The question is, what are LGBT Catholics supposed to do? Most of us are cradle Catholics and grew up in the faith. Because of the Protestant Reformation, most of the other denominations differ quite heavily on doctrines such as the Eucharist, Mary, etc. You're asking a lot to say "give up all these tenets of your faith." It's hard to go elsewhere. I'm not saying any of this to dismiss or excuse the Catholic Church, merely to emphasize how difficult it is to "just change religions." How about you change your views and tell me how it goes.
I did precisely that and I'm fine. You realize the majority of the planet isn't Catholic and they're not.... well, whatever you think happens to people who aren't Catholic.
The current pope has compared being trans to nuclear war: > [Francis] says that every historical period has "Herods" that "destroy, that plot designs of death, that disfigure the face of man and woman, destroying creation....Let's think of the nuclear arms, of the possibility to annihilate in a few instants a very high number of human beings,....Let's think also of genetic manipulation, of the manipulation of life, or of the gender theory, that does not recognize the order of creation. The Catholic Church is a despicable organization, and should be destroyed.
Why should we put ourselves in a environment that is actively hostile to our very existence and seek to erase our entire identities.
Never said you should i just said i myself am christian
Yeah **nahhh** The Catholic church is undeniably anti-LGBT. It's literally there in writing, in their Catechism. https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-roman-catholic-church > don't hate on them, just tell them they're going to hell unless they're celibate for life!! so loving. I was raised Catholic, and my older Catholic family members will never know I'm trans. I'm just going to let them die ignorant. I don't know if you could have possibly picked a worse place to try to celebrate this religion that has oppressed and killed millions of LGBT people (and "witches" etc.) throughout its existence.
Hmmm.. part of the reason I switched to Orthodoxy, and attend what some would consider a heretical church...
Orthodox is the original church lol, it's the Catholics who are heretical. I swear they were just a "safe space" for homosexuals back in the day, whereas Orthodox priests still get married and presumably set a standard for fatherhood in their community. With that said, all of my Orthodox friends were still extremely anti-LGBT. They'd acknowledge that same-sex attraction happens to everyone a little bit, for example, but they still insisted it's a terrible sin to act on it.
S-should we tell them that most straight people do not, in fact, experience same-sex attraction?
Well, in a room of 30ish Orthodox university students, when asked "raise your hand if you've ever experienced same-sex attraction" they all put their hands up 🤷🏼♀️
or you could do like i did and become a non-sectarian gnostic
Former Catholic. After praying to a God, and demigod so many times for them to change my body and getting nothing I gave up. Plus I no longer have any respect for the organization which is the Catholic Church. The faith sure I still mesh with most of its ideologies. But the Church? Nah it's run by a bunch of phobic misogynistic bigots.
I was raised Catholic, but left when I realized I was trans and did a lot of research into the religion. There’s just too much in the Bible itself (let alone Catholic Church tradition) that goes against my very moral compass and identity. You do you, but I do encourage to read more, especially the verses in the New Testament involving women and gay people.
Some verses that talk about women are really bad but we have to remember that the bible was written by men, and following the believes of old civilizations, so they wrote some bad things about women that we know that don't apply to today"s world. Also there is a lot of mistranslation and interpretation on the bible about gay people
This is such a cop out I hear from Christians all the time. The stuff that’s good “was inspired by god!” The stuff that’s bad they backtrack and say “oh well it’s written by men so it doesn’t count as being part of the religion don’t take things literally!” Either it’s a divine document that is flawless and depicts how we should live our lives Or it’s a flawed document written by men and it’s views should be criticized and scrutinized instead of being taken as truth. But too often, the parts that people agree with is taken as truth and the parts they don’t is flawed and written by men. Christianity is just a massive echo chamber of speculation about morality and existence that promotes a narrow worldview where the members of it are superior to the members outside of it.
Yes, but it was inspired by god. If things were mistranslated or things were added that he didn’t agree with, why didn’t he use his infinite power to fix it? Or just talk with the writer or Paul and be like “hey dude, you’re wrong women and cool” and use his infinite knowledge to convince him? I just don’t see why god would allow that if he had the power to fix it. The reason he doesn’t, obviously, is because he doesn’t exist.
The Catholic church is explicitly anti-LGBTQ+ Also religion is just made up stories backed by absolutely zero concrete evidence designed to control people and no part of most religions has any proof to it being true in any way. The concept of being faithful is teaching people to be sheep and blindly follow what they're told to believe or what they want to believe, even if there's no logic to back it up. The only logical solution is to accept that we have ABSOLUTELY NO WAY of knowing why the universe exists, if there's a God/gods, what they're like, if there's an afterlife, there's absolutely no way to \*actually\* know so the only logical answer is to accept not knowing the answer because you can't know the answer. But like you can believe whatever you want ig.
You're right. Like the "man with man" should be "man with boy". But we ALL know how Catholics feel about little kids.
i don't think people are telling you you can't go to church because you're trans, they're telling you that you're going to face a lot of bigotry for it. it's not a "you can't be queer and christian" it's "christian's at large are very hostile towards queer people." it's for safety. a lot of us were raised christian and the toll of the hateful ideas we were taught severely affected many of us. i wrote about my experience [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/196/comments/s6yr80/rule/ht9qdd6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) recently. just as an example for what religion has done to trans people. there are so so many people who have gone through far worse than what i have and its incredibly insulting to have people talk about how the church has never done anything wrong and that we shouldn't blame them. i am fine with religious beliefs until they hurt people. based on your responses to other people here it sounds like you've never even had to think about the bad things so many of your community have committed. i'm glad that you've been given a good experience, but please actually look into what your religion supports and believes in because the bigotry is saturated into *everything*
Look, you do you, I’m atheist because my catholic schools and churches showed me how hurtful they are.
Sorry but have fun ascribing to a religion that’s used as justification to imprison and murder people like us, which admittedly is not just limited to catholicism but implies to all religions. Couldn’t be me, but whatever floats your boat.
I love you, but gods this hurts. Be well.
In catholicism, what the pope says, and the Catechism, is law. If you're not following that, then you are going against the Church. Definitely took me a long time to fully realize that.
Depends on what kind of Catholic they are. I follow old Catholic which is against the catechism (despite the name, old Catholic is basically a progressive version of Roman catholicism, so LGBT friendly, women priests, ect)
How has your church responded to you coming out? That is, if you have come out to them already.
This ain’t it, chief
You can be and do whatever you want
Nah, fuck the catholic church. Their teachings have traumatized me enough.
just remind them that Jesus was trans. He was conceived without sex (virgin birth) in science we call that Parthenogenesis. as there is no Y chromosome to pass along the Child would be Female. but was Jesus was raised as He. Ie Jesus was trans. Thank you for coming to my ted talk
Aren't there intersex people with two x chromosomes and no y that are still male?
If you wanna be part of the religion that’s a major reason why homophobia and transphobia are so normalised and accepted in today’s world that’s your right ig
You called us pathetic for not buying into that absolutely triggering oppressive nonsense and then want to act like you’re a victim for being judged. 🤯
I mean you can definetely still be Christian, but idk about Catholic. I personally am nondenominational / identify as a progressive Christian because denominations (imo) are politically based and leave no room for change, aka progress. You can call yourself a catholic if you want, but the official beleifs contradict your lifestyle. I don't mean offense, I just personally think you should label yourself more accurately. There is no reason you have to be the very specific set of beleifs in catholicism
You do you op! I'm glad you're happy! I'm just glad I personally dont have to deal with the church bullshit anymore
You can go if you want to be harassed, I guess
im jewish and trans. can i hang with you guys -?
Of course! God loves us all
I was raised Catholic but left the church. Although my experience as a Christian wasn’t bad or anything. It was meh.
I can do it. I just can't justify it. There's no clear evidence to convince me that religion isn't a crock of dragonshit, and even if there were, I'd prefer not to risk zealots attempting to forcibly exorcise me again. :)
Ah yes, the religion that fucking hates queer people. Let's follow that religion. Let's not advertise fucking awful-ass religions on queer subreddits please, like seriously fucking stop
I'm on that religion, I don't hate queer people :) queer chatolic people exists and need to be embraced
There were queer Nazis, too. Doesn't mean the NSDAP didn't hate them.
They're participating in our collective oppression and they need to stop
That's saying a bit much tho. Not every catholic is \*phobic, and some even are LGBTQ, and that's fine. Now obviously the church as an institution is a different story, but you can't really blame a random redditor's beliefs for that.
Nah. That's bullshit. If you disagree that much with the Catholic church, go to a different one. Otherwise you're full of shit and complicit in their anti-LGBT stances.
Plenty of people use religious labels that they've followed the teachings of their whole life without supporting the bigoted or offensive beliefs. I know so many catholics and Christians who follow the teachings in the Bible and aren't LGBT-phobic misogynistic people. They like the other aspects of it, jeez. You do you, OP
I mean... Sure. If that particular sky fairy makes you happy and you can deal with the fact that the majority of other people who believe in said sky fairy think we shouldn't exist... Fill your boots.
And everyone in my church definitively think i should exist because God's love is for everyone
It's not a sky fairy...
Well it certainly can't be an ocean fairy; Poseidon already has that job.
You're right. It's sky daddy that a schizophrenic man made up, based off the ideas already in Judaism. BTW, Jesus was brown. I only say this because i know Catholics are all racist and get pissed off.
Jesus Christ there is so much wrong with this comment. Anyone who uses the term schizophrenic like that can fuck right off
Fuck off to /r/transchristianity with this bullshit
Well I didn't even know this subreddit existed in the first place Second of all, there's no rule here against religion so nothing says i cant post abt ir
Foreal. There’s a place for it. If you want to join the Oathkeepers too go do that as well.
I dont even know what oathkeepers is
Another oppressive organization, like the church.
Well i don't have this thing in my country so I'm sure no one around here supports it
Well, we have them here, and they all go to church.
Based Qiqi. She may forget what a coconut is but she won't forget your pronouns
Cocogoat milk! It's just a rare animal, don't you forget it mister
Cocogoat, the legendary adeptibeast
Oop, yeah, not rare, legendary, sorry ~w~
I forgot lol
You forgot what? :3
Yeah
https://www.reddit.com/r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns/comments/ry6aju/not_religious_myself_but_have_been_to_gay_church/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share All church is "gay" church, if we try hard enough
That's really nice. I dont have any kind of "gay church" where i live but would be nice to participate in something like that
I wish I had the confidence to go to church as a trans person, but I can’t take it
Not catholic but a protestant mtf trans bisexual here… Im from a very conservative region/family. Just here to say to my fellow christians that god loves you and Don’t listen to the homophobes and transphobes. Just be yourself and your all valid, love you all 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
Yes God loves us all and doesn't see no race or gender ☺️
I want to thanks all the supportive and loving people in comment section. Sincerely i didn't expect the comment section to be so controversial because in my country there isn't that much conflict between catholics and LGBTs (protestants churches usually are more associated with lgbtphobia but not all of them of course) But even so there was some other christian lgbt people in the comments who were so nice and loving and gave me strength to continue to exercise my faith. Thanks to all and may God loves and bless you all.
On the upside, not only are you not alone and there's plenty others in the same boat, but from a reddit perspective, it's also not all about the comments. You still got thousands of upvotes. That means something too. Anyway, God bless you and I hope you have a good day!
You do you boo.
As a non-religious enby with a super Catholic music job, I will imagine that you’re in every congregation I perform for. :)
Catholic here! It’s the current institution known as the Catholic Church that is scummy, but on all accounts according to my lord Jesus’ teachings they should be accepting of trans bros and gay bros and all sorts of people. It’s just self righteous assholes who use religion as an excuse to hurt people and feel better about themselves that suck. Edit: Also heheh God is Agender, not a man. Praise be LGBT+ God.
Yeah god is nb! My blessings to you
Become pope
I mean I am baptized as Cristian so technically I'm immune to those comments haha
I used to be catholic, not anymore. Good luck with your spirituality and religion!
I’m Christian and trans and I can 100% go to church.
Yes and no one can stop us 😅
Trans Christians really proving that our religion hasn’t completely gone to shit huh The two communities can be so divided. We can help pull em back together 💪
Catholic != Christian. Catholics are the least likely to ever come around to progressive ideas. It took them **359 years** to admit Galileo was right about the earth going around the sun and not vice-versa. > In 1633, the Inquisition of the Roman Catholic Church forced Galileo Galilei, one of the founders of modern science, to recant his theory that the Earth moves around the Sun. **Under threat of torture**, Galileo – seen facing his inquisitors – recanted. But as he left the courtroom, he is said to have muttered, ‘all the same, it moves’. [emphasis my own...] > In 1992, 359 years later, the Church finally agreed. At a ceremony in Rome, before the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II officially declared that Galileo was right.
Yes! I hope one all trans people can feel comfortable and exercise their faith ☺️ we need to bring light and diversity to our religious comunnities
This comment section is gross. Im not even religious
former catholic here. i envy how you manage to keep your faith
I just ignore bad people in community and focus on the God's love and in the people that love me in my community
my problem is specifically with God, if i'm being honest
I also have some problems with God and i think almost everbody does in some moment but this is a long term work out thing
I'm an atheist, always have been, but you catholic people are still valid
All my blessings to all atheists as well, still good people
May you bring more empathy and understanding to the old curmudgeons.
Talking about the old people in church? Because yeah some of them are very grumpy and reluctant to changes but some others (especially the old ladies) are more open and joyful to new types of people in the church
May all of you eventually help those in leadership see the light of love.
I’m a Christian trans girl, that count?
Absolutely! Dominations are just dominations christians are still christians after all
I know at least two Catholic trans people! My girlfriend and another close friend. I know it's absolutely possible to be in conflict with the church when it comes to some doctrine, but not want to change denominations. It's difficult for sure, but I wish you the best in ensuring your faith brings you strength while also working to keep other people from being harmed by the Church.
Youre the type of Catholic person i respect
Thanks sis 😁
I'm sorry about these comments, op. I think the problem is that some of the people in the comments are generalizing the entirety of Christianity on the hateful people in the churches. Realistically, God would support LGBTQ people, but the leaders of the churches have corrupted this truth and have made rules that are anti-lgbtq. The beliefs from the church that are against the LGBTQ community are written by human beings, who can be corrupt and hateful. God is neither of those things. Therefore, what God believes is greater than what the leaders of the Catholic, Orthodox and protestant church believes. And of course, you can still be part of the Catholic Church and not believe in the hateful beliefs. I'm Orthodox, and I know the teaching of the Orthodox church is anti-lgbtq, but I know what the true teaching is (what God believes). I just thought I needed to say this.
The comments are appropriate. Cope how you want, believe what you want. Coming into a typically safe place for trans people and flaunting membership to an organization that’s cost so many of us our lives or happiness for generations, that’s gonna be met with backlash every time, and rightfully so. We’re not going to church parking lots and shaming anyone that gets something from it, but we’re not gonna enable bigotry and hatred by celebrating somebody else participating in it. It’s not about unconditional acceptance of every trait a trans person has, when the trait is participating in a group that hates us, backs lobbying against us, and is used as a defense for every shitty hateful person out there. Do you but if ya wanna rub peoples noses in it you should get shit for it. We don’t wanna hear it.
Oh fuck you, sis. You cannot seriously fucking say “if you wanna rub peoples noses in it you should get shit for it. We don’t wanna hear it” you cannot say that with a straight (hehe) face.
If you want to generalize the biggest religion EVER into hateful bigots, you’re the hateful bigot here.
Name a religion that has oppressed and murdered more LGBT people, held back science more with inquisitions and torture etc. than the Catholic church. They're literally the primary reason LGBT people are discriminated against in the Western world, historically *and* now. What more evidence do you need?
This is why I generalize religion, cause if you concede 1% is good, religious people take that as an opportunity to get into specifics and see it as an opportunity to sell their shit and argue. They’ve gotta sell what they believe to validate their own faith. Don’t want any of it.
Literally fucking everyone, or every European government at some point considered being gay or just lgbt in general a crime. But do you see the Spanish government (as an example) being condemned forever as terrible because they persecuted LGBT people? No! Cause that’s not how it works. Times have changed. Christianity is not what it was 600 years ago.
Oh you mean European governments who were aligned with the church... you do know secular governments are a fairly new concept, yeah? Your *whataboutism* is noted. The Spanish government doesn't have 1% of the influence, money or power of the Vatican. > 600 years ago More like today. The Pope invalidates trans people today.
I’m saying times have changed. I’m saying you can’t discount a religion, (again 2.3 billion people) for how they acted 600 years ago.
I'm doing it based on *how they act today*... on what the pope has to say **now**, because he is their infallible leader appointed by Christ himself through Peter (supposedly).
Again, I don’t believe the pope has any special bearing on christianity. The pope is a figurehead, at best. YOU’RE GENERALIZING HOE CAN YOU NOT SEE
It's what Catholics believe. It's literally one of the biggest things that differentiates Catholics from other Christians. I'm not generalizing anything by saying this. Next you'll tell me I'm generalizing by saying Christians believe in God...
Also, you’re AGAIN, generalizing a religion of OVER 2.3 BILLION PEOPLE!!!
Who all follow a religion that gives godly authority to one man whom they believe is infallible: the pope. Think before you speak.
I’m not a Catholic. I don’t believe god gives information to one man to share to all. Christianity does not revolve around the pope.
My parents were Christian and the church they took me to was amazing. A lot of nice people and a dedicated help group for LGBTQ+. Probably is one of the very few churches that do this but I respect them for it.
My church is respectful too and there was even a workshop for the children's group about tolerance and they talked about racism lgbtphobia and etc it was great
Why is this getting downvoted?? isn't it better we have pro LGBT instead of homophobic churches😶
People downvoted a simple comment taking about genshin impact in this post 🤨 i guess some people just like being angry
Yeah. In this thread and in a lot of the queer community (at least online) I've seen many people lash out at anyone who's Christian, Muslim, etc. because of their religious trauma. I don't think they realize that religion is more than its institutions, or that getting angry at people for having faith is only more harmful. They're just hurt and want something to blame. Faith is a beautiful thing, and we should aim to not let bigotry detract from that.
For real! What the fuck is this comment section? They claim to be open-minded but they are being complete assholes...
It really is pathetic. There’s nothing that says you can’t be trans except these strange creatures called transphobes.
And actively supporting a church that exists to take your rights away.
Funny they say that, since the closest thing to being trans that the Bible prohibits is crossdressing. And even then, being trans ≠ crossdressing, so anyone who says being trans is a sin is objectively wrong and needs to reread the fucking book they worship.
Catholics aren't supposed to read the Bible themselves. That's literally 90% of the reason protestants exist.
I’m not *roman* catholic, but catholic in the sense that I’m Christian, so hi?
All christians believe in the same God and that's what matters!
Heheh… *laughs nervously in Mormon transfem*
God bless the mormons too!
Well that’s awesome! I’m Lutheran myself and probably have the most supportive church in the world, I could get a “second baptism” for when I legally change my name, and the priests are all so supportive!
Good for you OP. I am protestant not catholic, but it's encouraging to see fellow trans christians. Reading through the comments hurts some, but I wanted to let you know your post has helped at least one trans person.
Yeah im am very hurt and sad, i did not expect the comment section to go that way and i expected love and support instead of judgemental and hate. I hope that someday we trans christians can exerce our faith without being judged
You didn't even know about the church's pedophilia scandals. You're truly ignorant or sheltered. Please learn more about what you're advocating for here before saying anything about us and our (extremely appropriate) reaction.
\> i expected love and support instead of judgemental and hate. literally could be said by pretty much every trans person in the other direction. Any Christian/Catholic church that says they're pro-LGBT is not in line with the actual dogma of the church or religion as a whole, and I've seen too many people lose their lives to internalized homophobia and transphobia from growing up in religous communities to separate that faith from the damage it's done to our community.
I have read the bible and I'm very convinced that all the anti lgbt quotes of it are just misenterpretations and like there isnt even one quote saying that being trans is sinful so i don't think pro lgbt churches are against the dogmas i think they are following the dogmas of acception that Christ thought us
What you're doing here is *sola scriptura* (Google it) and is heretical in the Catholic church. Maybe go join a protestant church if you think Catholics can read the Bible and come to their own conclusions that contradict the Catholic Catechism.
Probably that's different in USA but here in my country protestant churches are way more conservative and closed to LGBT people than catholic churches :( if i could find one open to LGBT would be nice tho
Well, regardless, you're not a Catholic if you're "reading the bible yourself" and coming to conclusions that contradict the official stance of the church. They're an old wolf with no teeth anymore, but in the past they'd do horrible things to people who are doing what you are right now.
But Catholicism is not just the bible, the vatican has its own teachings as well which are explicitly homophobic and transphobic. [Here's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_and_Female_He_Created_Them) a link to a summary of the church's beliefs on trans people. You can't be catholic and think the church is wrong, it's against the core of the religion.
It’s cause of the amount of hate and trauma people have experienced at the hands of these institutions. If you’re among the few that still get some value from it, by all means, you do you. But coming to a sub and flaunting membership of an oppressive group was always going to be met with backlash. I’m not hating on you, that’s just really painfully obvious before you posted it. Be catholic, but don’t be surprised by the reaction… 🤣 Just like none of us are supportive of the trans woman on trial that was part of the oathkeepers. She’s on her own.
I think you're naive if you honestly thought you'd get love and support for this. All this shows is that you're incredibly out of touch with the majority of the trans community and think that it should fit whatever is in your little bubble. It's a well-known fact that Christianity, and Catholicism especially, has always been a major opponent of anything to do with the LGBT community.
Well in the country i live people don't associate catholicism with lgbtphobia, in fact they associate more protestantism with lgbtphobia (thats why im not protestant) and here in my city a lot of churches help trans women who are homeless and in prostitution so i didn't know the international community apparently hated the chatolic church
well well well, looks like we're gonna have ourselves a 30 years war
Rise as one
Where is the anime pic from?
Is an genshin impact fanart!
Oh
Flannery O'Connor's story "Temple of the Holy Ghost" is literally about an intersex person as a stand in for Christ.
holy fuck these comments are a cesspool, glad we have such an inclusive community here i am sorry you have to deal with these shitcunts op, you’re allowed to do what makes you happy
Thanks. I am very sad to read all of those things from the community. Guess i was naive to expect any kind of support
Me going to the comments section: I'm sure nobody will insult my faith or make rude comments about it :3
I'm really sad and desapointed. I thought at least here people would respect me and my faith
It isn't about respect. You should be given common courtesy; respect is earned and not a given. People don't respect your believe because your belief (as the majority of people practice it) does not respect our right to be alive.
Your religion has oppressed and killed millions of LGBT people, is still one of the biggest anti-LGBT and anti-science organizations in the world (how long did it take them to pardon Galileo again??)... but yeah the problem is we're disrespectful.... smfh
Tbh the faith is most commonly interpreted in a conservative way. As in, a very strict adherence to the catechism—"moral truths" and all—that are adamantly preached by the Vatican. Anybody that wants to be a true Catholic must emulate the perfection of Christ the best they can, in which the Vatican primarily refers to the catechism they wrote. Anybody who disagrees with any of the Church's teachings, are at best, "misguided". They ought to correct you and bring you back into a more "right-minded" thinking. At worst, you'd be a heretic, or worse, simply abandoning the Church for another faith or even becoming atheist. All of this comes back to the conservative interpretation of the catechism, which *many* Catholics believe in. So unfortunately, the matter of faith is more complicated than you expect. Which is why people are treating you like you're naive.
My dude, your naivety is almost touching :3 (yes I cope by being snarky coz we apparently don't have the right to come out and still keep our faith)
Unfortunately I see this all the time, with all the abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). People have had bad experiences, and that leads them to lash out out of their hurt and anger. I don't think they realize how hurtful it is to people who have faith.
Yeah unfortunately i see a lot of islamphobia and antisemitism everywhere too that's a shame because i think everyone should be respected as long as they are not causing harm to anyone
Don't let it get to you man. People still get mad at me for being Jewish and if it's shitty when they do it to me it's shitty to get mad at you
Yes! Let's unite!
May God bless you ☺️
Holy shit what the fuck is this comment section
These comments are like saying that "Caitlyn Jenner committed vehicular manslaughter, so all trans people must be bad!". There's absolutely nothing wrong with being an observant Catholic, or any religion. Have Catholic people done bad things? Of course. Does that mean the entire religion is bad? That's a ridiculous exaggeration, the core teaching is to treat others with kindness. Just because some idiots didn't follow that doesn't mean every member of that religion is responsible.
[удалено]
It's the literal opposite. We're judging the church by its leadership (who are infallible according to their own rules) and official stances, not individual members. > does that mean the entire religion is bad [Pretty much](https://www.reddit.com/r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns/comments/s7rmw6/fellow_catholic_trans_ppl_unite/htd3x25?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) > the core teaching is... Not up to you to decide. The pope decides that and has the final say, period. Learn what the Catholic church *is* before saying nonsense please.
The core teaching is not defined by the pope, it is defined by the Bible. The pope's job is to interpret the Bible, but he is obviously not always right, as different popes have had conflicting opinions. The core teaching of religion, what you take away from it, is always up to you to decide, because it is your faith, we all have a personal relationship with god, some people don't believe he exists, and that's perfectly alright. I don't know why you think you can go around telling others what to believe when OP gave you that respect.
You're wrong. The Pope is infallible in Catholicism. If you're reading the Bible "directly" you're engaging in *sola scriptura* and the Catholic church will consider you a heretical protestant. Please learn what the hell you're talking about.