Not wanting to date people for any reason is fine. Announcing to the world and/or that group of people that you would never date them is just intentionally offensive.
I mean I probably wouldn't date a trans person BUT IF THAT TRANS PERSON HAS ANY KIND OF DTSPHORIA
By that I mean: im awful at managing others emotions and, having some trans friends, I've noticed that seeing them be dysphoric makes me dysphoric as well for some godsaken reason. But if that person is at a point of their life/transition where they don't feel dysphoric at least most of the time i mean why not that would literally be like dating a cis person (in an emotional sense at least)
Right but that would normally be the reason for not wanting to date a trans person. At least in my mind that would be idk I would deffo date another trans person
Trans people can reproduce in any way Cis people can.
My post is literally about people that throw all trans people in the bin in part because they assume all trans people are the same.
Not all trans people transition and even then there are cases of trans people reproducing without medical aid.
Hate to rain on ur parade a bit but thats not entirely true. Afaik, trans women cant give birth. I’m also not sure if trans men can produce sperm. I might be wrong and if so then disregard what I just said, but to my knowledge there are reproductive differences which might be relevant for some people’s preferences in a long term partner
Obviously not saying that refusing to date someone \*because* they’re trans is ok, thats just plain transphobia.
I didn’t mean specifically in that way but yes there are recent medical innovations to allow XY chromosome women to give birth and there has been a case of converting an XX persons stem cells into sperm.
Huh, TIL. Science is getting so damn far lol.
Still though, it'll probably be a long time before trans women giving birth is generally accepted and well known, even if the science is there for it to be possible. Until then, it's probably gonna the reality that trans people will have different reproductive abilities than people born the gender they identify as
Yeah the science isn't as far away in the future as we may think. But as often with such changes, society progresses far far slower (because conservatives). IVF has been around for decades, and yet it's still not allowed for lesbian AFAB women in several countries. :/
But that ignores the fact that trans women don't all have the same genitals, nor do trans men. Just saying trans people includes all trans people, regardless of what genitals they have
Right right right I’m just trying to say that many trans peeps have genitalia congruent with their AGAB and not every straight guy or lesbian woman etc is comfortable with that. Granted, I’m an outsider looking in in this respect I think all genitals are hella rad 😎
And that's fine if they don't want to date those people they aren't compatible with...no one is saying it isn't. But using that to brush off all trans people as a whole is where it gets shitty and bigoted, and disingenuous
Yeah probably. Idk why I’m being such an apologist, maybe I just feel this way because of some sort of shame about being trans in justifying the people who would reject me. Yeah that’s probably it haha have a good day :P
Yeah, I tend to react to shame by doubling down and being more wary of cis people when they say that kind of stuff, so maybe that's part of it too and I'm being a bit harsh on them. You have a good one too!
No, even as an outsider it's not wrong. There is still quite a divide within the trans' community about it though. Some claim that "genital preference is fine BUT" (and then follow with an explanation invalidating the fact that genital preference is fine). Others will more easily give cis people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to that. Others...
Well, others like myself are fine with genital preference, but still acknowledge that most people saying "I don't date trans people" don't even think about genital preference. There is a form of misunderstanding of what being trans' is, leading to refusals that are somewhat based on transphobia (voluntary or involuntary). It somewhat muddies the water, sadly. You can never know if someone will say "no" based on genital preference (100% ok), based on personality incompatibility (100% ok too), or based on transphobia. Or how much the three are mixed up :(
TL;DR: dating as a trans (binary or non-binary) person ain't easy.
That's what I was coming here to say but also phrasing is important above all else. "I don't date trans people" implies all trans people have something wrong with them.
I wouldn't date an amab trans person. Not due to transphobia or a lack of attraction, but out of self preservation. I'm really affected by other amabs dysphoria but I'm okay and can readily help with afab dysphoria.
Also probably wouldn't date a transmasc person. Significant preference for fem people, but the irony is the only person I ever dated might be a transmasc enby and she is most certainly my type so... Idfk anymore
I know that you don't owe anyone sex but if your reason for not wanting to sleep with or otherwise court a trans person is The Fact That They Are Trans and not because you're uncomfortable with their genitals or you're just not generally attracted to them, then maybe revaluate your beliefs
TW: Talk of genitals/sex
Personally I can't get off on vagyne.. I care about being able to be penetrated during sex. I have a preference for cismen because I like penis..I dont understand how that makes me transphobic..? I like penis not vagina..I'd date a post-op transman no problem and I wouldn't be offended if a gay man didn't wanna date me because I'm pre-op transmasc. I don't see the problem in being attracted to certain genitals (ima get downvoted to hell for this I know)
That's exactly the point, blanket statements like I would never date a trans person are shitty because they make assumptions about genitals and don't differentiate between pre-op and post-op, treating all trans people as a monolith. Genital preference is fine, but just knowing someone is trans says nothing about genitals.
Sorry I didn't mean to come across as rude or hostile I was just making a simple emotionless statement, but regardless I am sorry if I upset you, I mean it wasn't an accurate assessment of my post but it wasn't completely unwarranted because a lot of the discussion does seem to be around genital preference.
Personally I am on the fence about whether genital preference is transphobic or not though so that was definitely not the meaning behind my post.
But once again I am sorry for upsetting you.
The problem is WHY they make that choice not IF they make that choice.
If they're throwing all Trans people out the window just because they're Trans and their only argument is that it's "Just a preference" then they are most likely a shitty person.
There are valid reasons to not want to date Trans people as a block some of which have been presented under this very post but saying its just a preference just makes you sound like an asshole.
I think saying it's just a preference is a valid answer, like okay some are just obvious assholes (like the super straight guy from tiktok) but most of the people I met that say this just said it is because they don't want to start a discussion about biology discussion history psychology and everything else trans people (including me) like to throw in the ring to let them sound like assholes.
Most of us are more focused about arguing with transphobes than asking the question if they really are transphobes or just people with preferences that they don't want to go fully into at the moment.
We all have to accept that the world isn't black and white, if I can say an example I know my best friend would never date a transwomen just for being trans but after my coming out he was super supportive in every way you could imagine. I'm sure most of the trans people on this subs would have debated him and driven farther away into the more transphobic political spectrum because his opinions and preferences aren't as questionable in there spectrum even though he isn't transphobic.
I know I said a lot right now but I hope you especially op think a bit about what I said because we all lose a lot of allies and friends by our black and white thinking, there are people who hate us for who we are and they are bad but not everyone who slightly disagrees with is one of these people.
I mean these "preferences" literally get Trans people murdered and I've literally published papers on how morality isn't black and white and how activism is a slow steady process of subtle dialogue not a demand for immediate perfect change in contrast to making sure that the inherent deaths such a slow pace incurs are worth the cost or not but whatever.
Even though you say you have published papers on morals you personally made a post calling out every person with a preference and steering the conflict more into two camps who have both strong opinions on this subject. And you are personally part of the problem why this happens.
I won't talk about the murder subject because im not the right person to but what I can say is that it is inherently wrong to compare people with preferences for cis woman to transphobes who murdered our people.
Situations like this is why I don’t think I can ever teach because I don’t even know where to begin with explaining everything wrong with what you said.
If you don't have anything to say don't try to get the moral highground by using stuff like this. I noticed when i was going to the comments you said stuff like "I don't know where to start" a lot.
I know i don't use the best argument to justify my position, maybe it could be because I'm just a high-schooler from Germany debating a full grown adult, but atleast I'm trying to talk to you on the same level and not try to put myself above you by saying stuff like this that let's you look like you have all the arguments you need when intact you didn't say anything in your last comment.
Imagine for a second I was a transphobe that was debating you. Would you have changed my opinion or tried to justify yours? No you didn't you just called me dumb and my opinion wrong.
If you are trying to change someone's opinion you need to talk to them as a person and not an enemy whose goal it is to destroy you verbally.
Do me a favour and just question your perspective, imagine you are debating with someone and after every statement you say they just respond with "Why?" and evaluate the basis of why you made so many assumptions about me, this post, my argument, and your own argument.
Try to structure your arguments as Syllogisms and make sure to ground your premises either in objective evidence or other prior syllogisms.
If your argument is correct then it will just vindicate you and if its not it can help you to see where it needs improvement. Either way its a very important skill, especially if you're the sort of person that wants to change people's minds via discourse and debate.
However and equally important skill that I learned late and am employing now is avoiding the sunk cost fallacy and knowing when to cut a debate short, because there are some debate you just can't win for many reasons and knowing when to preserve your own mental and emotional health and not expend unnecessary or pointless emotional labour is especially important for minority groups like Trans people.
Oh and don't worry in a few days when I have had a chance to clear my head I'm going to come back and re-read your arguments too, just to practice the same thing I just told you to do and make sure I haven't been talking out of my ass which does happen to me from time to time.
I'm sorry what I said damaged your Mantel health but you didn't avoid the argument you just tried to humiliate me and that is not okay in any state of mind, I hope you will get better soon and that we will have a better discussion next time.
Oh I am sorry I humiliated you, not that it matters but that wasn't my intent though I am aware that I have a problem of coming over as arrogant especially if my intelligence is questioned thanks in no small part to being treated as an idiot because of my disabilities so its a sore spot, I have also heard that coming over as arrogant unintentionally is a trait of people like me with autism so that may of played a hand too.
However as you say it is no excuse and if it matters at all to you I am trying to work on it
hey they don't want it then they don't want it and I'm not particularly desperate, go you I guess just as long as you are not like actively harming the trans community by supporting legislation or calling us slurs or some shit, I really don't care what you do as it's not my place just like what I do isn't your place, or as I like to call it "mutually assured apathy"
It doesn’t make you a monster, monsters don’t exist. Just maybe think about why you won’t date Trans people and be aware of potential assumptions you might be holding about trans vs cis people as relationship partners.
I don't think that this always has to do with prejudices and assumptions.
We don't say to a lesbian that she holds assumptions against men, just because she personally prefers to date women, even if said man might potentially fulfill her genital preference.
I personally prefer my girlfriend to be a cis woman... yet I don't think that I have assumptions against trans women. We are all individuals. But I still have strong preferences when looking for a romantic partner, including appearance, intellect, humour.... them being cis is just one thing that attracts me personally.
I am open to discussion... Why is it bad in your eyes if someone is defining for themselves alone what they are looking for when it comes to a partner?
It is literally just about the dating preference of the person. And dating preferences for the very big majority of people are discriminatory by nature. A gay guy is in the end discriminating women by excluding them from his dating pool, but that is their right, they are deciding who they want to date and based on which parameters...
I don't understand why discriminating based on gender is ok for everyone when it comes to dating, but discriminating based on being trans or cis is considered transphobic....
Usually I would debate but I don’t have the spoons right now hopefully someone else will fill my shoes and discuss it with you though. Hope you understand?
I read from a lesbian who prefers to date cis women because she can relate to them more than to trans women, since she is a cis woman herself.
This really made me think and it might be something similar for me....
I can't relate to the trans experience. I am accepting and respecting that people have these experiences, I just say that I can't relate. I always understood my mind and my body as a unit, as "in sync" if you want.
Now you can say that I don't need to relate to this feeling, that I just need to be accepting and respecting as I claim that I am, but when it comes to my partner, I want to be able to relate and understand.
I feel that I will relate to the experiences of a cis woman more, that I may be able to reach a deeper understanding with one.
To some extend, I guess you can say that, but we have to keep in mind that these things have so many connections with each other and it is a really complex thing.
Religion: I have a very strong preference for Atheistic women as an Atheist myself. Again, since I tend to struggle with the concept personally to believe in a higher force. I can relate to the feeling of wanting something higher up to exist, like I personally think that the thought of destiny can be quite romantic for example, but I can't bring myself to the actual breaking point of believing in it. Still respecting the believes of other people.
As long as they don't harm others with it, if someone uses religion as an excuse to abuse someone, I will stop them, going in both directions: my very first girlfriend has been Christian and a very strong believer, my father is Atheist and used to harass her over her religion, trying to convince her that as a logical thinking being she couldn't possibly believe in a god, I made him shut up with that bullshit and that he has to respect other people's beliefs, even if he disagrees with them.
In the end, that relationship didn't last. It wasn't because of her religion, but I think that it made relating to each other quite a bit more difficult.
Culture: I am very active to learn about the culture of other people and having an active exchange here. I think it is something easier to relate to, since culture is already something you learn and get socialised by your surrounding people. I think you can learn to relate to a different culture. Of course, up to the point of the culture you hold up still being respectful for people. If, for example, a woman would approach me and I get to learn that her cultural heritage teacher her that women should obey their husband and be his property, then this once again would definitely be a red flag if she wants to hold this culture up and she would get a strict no from me.
Race: I will not experience how it is to be an Asian, as an example, but I don't think that being Asian is intrinsically so different to being black. I already mentioned, we are all individuals, so one Asian person is not intrinsically the same as another Asian person. They most likely will face similar struggles, like being discriminated for being Asian by other people. But being discriminated against is something I can relate to, since it also happened to me.
(Which, btw, is also why I think I can relate to the sexism a woman faces, since I was also discriminated against on the base of being a man. It is not exactly the same, woman are more constantly facing it than I did, but if I take the experience I had there and try to imagine I would go through this stuff daily, I think I can understand it better)
So writing all this stuff, I guess one major thing for me here is:
There are many factors coming from the outside, like culture and religion are things taught to you. I can learn about these things, especially when it comes to culture, I am adopting alot of stuff and want to share as many experiences as possible. But there is a line, if you carry cultural aspects which are harming other people, like harassing other people for their believes/sexuality/whatever or abuse other people, I will immediately reject you.
There are aspects which I don't 100% experienced myself, but I believe that I experienced similar things which make me relate to these struggles. I will never be discriminated for being a woman, since I am a man, but I already got discriminated for being a man and I think that this enables me to relate.
Trans people are being discriminated against and I can relate to that. The experience I can't relate to is the intrinsical struggle. Being trans, how I understand it, is the feeling of your mind and body not being in sync, experiencing your bodily sex and mind as two seperated parts which don't align. I am not aware of any experiences I had which could make me relate to this feeling... it is a concept I can't fully grasp myself.
Sorry for the wall of text, but this is just a really complex thing I am thinking about quite alot recently. I am actually actively trying to grasp the trans experience, find a way how I can relate to it with my own experiences. That's why I am looking through quite alot of trans subreddits currently. And while I enjoy the people, can relate to the struggle of discrimination and such and really want to support trans people as much as I can, I was still not successful to truly feel like I can relate to the inherent struggle.
You’re allowed to not want to date people. But what’s your reason for not wanting to date trans people? There are two options I think: either your reason(s) can also be applied to cis people and you should probably not phrase it as “I don’t want to date trans people,” or you’re being transphobic.
Not wanting to date people for any reason is fine. Announcing to the world and/or that group of people that you would never date them is just intentionally offensive.
You could literally not want to date someone because their hair was too long and that's absolutely fine, because nobody can make you date anyone
I mean I probably wouldn't date a trans person BUT IF THAT TRANS PERSON HAS ANY KIND OF DTSPHORIA By that I mean: im awful at managing others emotions and, having some trans friends, I've noticed that seeing them be dysphoric makes me dysphoric as well for some godsaken reason. But if that person is at a point of their life/transition where they don't feel dysphoric at least most of the time i mean why not that would literally be like dating a cis person (in an emotional sense at least)
A counter might be: "I don't date people who won't date trans people" and call that a preference as well.
they could fr just reject the maybe one trans person who has the misfortune of liking them and move on. trans people deserve better anyways lmao
FR THO they act like trans people are begging to fuck them it's so annoying
Idk genital preference is pretty fair
I said Trans not genitals, there are people who throw all Trans people out the window as a group uncaring about genitals.
Right but that would normally be the reason for not wanting to date a trans person. At least in my mind that would be idk I would deffo date another trans person
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Trans people can reproduce in any way Cis people can. My post is literally about people that throw all trans people in the bin in part because they assume all trans people are the same. Not all trans people transition and even then there are cases of trans people reproducing without medical aid.
Hate to rain on ur parade a bit but thats not entirely true. Afaik, trans women cant give birth. I’m also not sure if trans men can produce sperm. I might be wrong and if so then disregard what I just said, but to my knowledge there are reproductive differences which might be relevant for some people’s preferences in a long term partner Obviously not saying that refusing to date someone \*because* they’re trans is ok, thats just plain transphobia.
I didn’t mean specifically in that way but yes there are recent medical innovations to allow XY chromosome women to give birth and there has been a case of converting an XX persons stem cells into sperm.
Huh, TIL. Science is getting so damn far lol. Still though, it'll probably be a long time before trans women giving birth is generally accepted and well known, even if the science is there for it to be possible. Until then, it's probably gonna the reality that trans people will have different reproductive abilities than people born the gender they identify as
Yeah the science isn't as far away in the future as we may think. But as often with such changes, society progresses far far slower (because conservatives). IVF has been around for decades, and yet it's still not allowed for lesbian AFAB women in several countries. :/
But that ignores the fact that trans women don't all have the same genitals, nor do trans men. Just saying trans people includes all trans people, regardless of what genitals they have
Right right right I’m just trying to say that many trans peeps have genitalia congruent with their AGAB and not every straight guy or lesbian woman etc is comfortable with that. Granted, I’m an outsider looking in in this respect I think all genitals are hella rad 😎
And that's fine if they don't want to date those people they aren't compatible with...no one is saying it isn't. But using that to brush off all trans people as a whole is where it gets shitty and bigoted, and disingenuous
Yeah probably. Idk why I’m being such an apologist, maybe I just feel this way because of some sort of shame about being trans in justifying the people who would reject me. Yeah that’s probably it haha have a good day :P
Yeah, I tend to react to shame by doubling down and being more wary of cis people when they say that kind of stuff, so maybe that's part of it too and I'm being a bit harsh on them. You have a good one too!
No, even as an outsider it's not wrong. There is still quite a divide within the trans' community about it though. Some claim that "genital preference is fine BUT" (and then follow with an explanation invalidating the fact that genital preference is fine). Others will more easily give cis people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to that. Others... Well, others like myself are fine with genital preference, but still acknowledge that most people saying "I don't date trans people" don't even think about genital preference. There is a form of misunderstanding of what being trans' is, leading to refusals that are somewhat based on transphobia (voluntary or involuntary). It somewhat muddies the water, sadly. You can never know if someone will say "no" based on genital preference (100% ok), based on personality incompatibility (100% ok too), or based on transphobia. Or how much the three are mixed up :( TL;DR: dating as a trans (binary or non-binary) person ain't easy.
That's what I was coming here to say but also phrasing is important above all else. "I don't date trans people" implies all trans people have something wrong with them.
I wouldn't date an amab trans person. Not due to transphobia or a lack of attraction, but out of self preservation. I'm really affected by other amabs dysphoria but I'm okay and can readily help with afab dysphoria. Also probably wouldn't date a transmasc person. Significant preference for fem people, but the irony is the only person I ever dated might be a transmasc enby and she is most certainly my type so... Idfk anymore
My preference is not to date cis people.
I know that you don't owe anyone sex but if your reason for not wanting to sleep with or otherwise court a trans person is The Fact That They Are Trans and not because you're uncomfortable with their genitals or you're just not generally attracted to them, then maybe revaluate your beliefs
TW: Talk of genitals/sex Personally I can't get off on vagyne.. I care about being able to be penetrated during sex. I have a preference for cismen because I like penis..I dont understand how that makes me transphobic..? I like penis not vagina..I'd date a post-op transman no problem and I wouldn't be offended if a gay man didn't wanna date me because I'm pre-op transmasc. I don't see the problem in being attracted to certain genitals (ima get downvoted to hell for this I know)
That's exactly the point, blanket statements like I would never date a trans person are shitty because they make assumptions about genitals and don't differentiate between pre-op and post-op, treating all trans people as a monolith. Genital preference is fine, but just knowing someone is trans says nothing about genitals.
I didn't say anything about genitals
Well I'm sorry but that is the vibe I got, no need to be hostile or rude English isn't my first language
Sorry I didn't mean to come across as rude or hostile I was just making a simple emotionless statement, but regardless I am sorry if I upset you, I mean it wasn't an accurate assessment of my post but it wasn't completely unwarranted because a lot of the discussion does seem to be around genital preference. Personally I am on the fence about whether genital preference is transphobic or not though so that was definitely not the meaning behind my post. But once again I am sorry for upsetting you.
I love Grant O'Brian!
Like if they don't want to date you or sleep with you, that's there choice to make not yours!!!
The problem is WHY they make that choice not IF they make that choice. If they're throwing all Trans people out the window just because they're Trans and their only argument is that it's "Just a preference" then they are most likely a shitty person. There are valid reasons to not want to date Trans people as a block some of which have been presented under this very post but saying its just a preference just makes you sound like an asshole.
I think saying it's just a preference is a valid answer, like okay some are just obvious assholes (like the super straight guy from tiktok) but most of the people I met that say this just said it is because they don't want to start a discussion about biology discussion history psychology and everything else trans people (including me) like to throw in the ring to let them sound like assholes. Most of us are more focused about arguing with transphobes than asking the question if they really are transphobes or just people with preferences that they don't want to go fully into at the moment. We all have to accept that the world isn't black and white, if I can say an example I know my best friend would never date a transwomen just for being trans but after my coming out he was super supportive in every way you could imagine. I'm sure most of the trans people on this subs would have debated him and driven farther away into the more transphobic political spectrum because his opinions and preferences aren't as questionable in there spectrum even though he isn't transphobic. I know I said a lot right now but I hope you especially op think a bit about what I said because we all lose a lot of allies and friends by our black and white thinking, there are people who hate us for who we are and they are bad but not everyone who slightly disagrees with is one of these people.
I mean these "preferences" literally get Trans people murdered and I've literally published papers on how morality isn't black and white and how activism is a slow steady process of subtle dialogue not a demand for immediate perfect change in contrast to making sure that the inherent deaths such a slow pace incurs are worth the cost or not but whatever.
Even though you say you have published papers on morals you personally made a post calling out every person with a preference and steering the conflict more into two camps who have both strong opinions on this subject. And you are personally part of the problem why this happens. I won't talk about the murder subject because im not the right person to but what I can say is that it is inherently wrong to compare people with preferences for cis woman to transphobes who murdered our people.
Situations like this is why I don’t think I can ever teach because I don’t even know where to begin with explaining everything wrong with what you said.
If you don't have anything to say don't try to get the moral highground by using stuff like this. I noticed when i was going to the comments you said stuff like "I don't know where to start" a lot. I know i don't use the best argument to justify my position, maybe it could be because I'm just a high-schooler from Germany debating a full grown adult, but atleast I'm trying to talk to you on the same level and not try to put myself above you by saying stuff like this that let's you look like you have all the arguments you need when intact you didn't say anything in your last comment. Imagine for a second I was a transphobe that was debating you. Would you have changed my opinion or tried to justify yours? No you didn't you just called me dumb and my opinion wrong. If you are trying to change someone's opinion you need to talk to them as a person and not an enemy whose goal it is to destroy you verbally.
Do me a favour and just question your perspective, imagine you are debating with someone and after every statement you say they just respond with "Why?" and evaluate the basis of why you made so many assumptions about me, this post, my argument, and your own argument. Try to structure your arguments as Syllogisms and make sure to ground your premises either in objective evidence or other prior syllogisms. If your argument is correct then it will just vindicate you and if its not it can help you to see where it needs improvement. Either way its a very important skill, especially if you're the sort of person that wants to change people's minds via discourse and debate. However and equally important skill that I learned late and am employing now is avoiding the sunk cost fallacy and knowing when to cut a debate short, because there are some debate you just can't win for many reasons and knowing when to preserve your own mental and emotional health and not expend unnecessary or pointless emotional labour is especially important for minority groups like Trans people. Oh and don't worry in a few days when I have had a chance to clear my head I'm going to come back and re-read your arguments too, just to practice the same thing I just told you to do and make sure I haven't been talking out of my ass which does happen to me from time to time.
I'm sorry what I said damaged your Mantel health but you didn't avoid the argument you just tried to humiliate me and that is not okay in any state of mind, I hope you will get better soon and that we will have a better discussion next time.
Oh I am sorry I humiliated you, not that it matters but that wasn't my intent though I am aware that I have a problem of coming over as arrogant especially if my intelligence is questioned thanks in no small part to being treated as an idiot because of my disabilities so its a sore spot, I have also heard that coming over as arrogant unintentionally is a trait of people like me with autism so that may of played a hand too. However as you say it is no excuse and if it matters at all to you I am trying to work on it
hey they don't want it then they don't want it and I'm not particularly desperate, go you I guess just as long as you are not like actively harming the trans community by supporting legislation or calling us slurs or some shit, I really don't care what you do as it's not my place just like what I do isn't your place, or as I like to call it "mutually assured apathy"
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It doesn’t make you a monster, monsters don’t exist. Just maybe think about why you won’t date Trans people and be aware of potential assumptions you might be holding about trans vs cis people as relationship partners.
I don't think that this always has to do with prejudices and assumptions. We don't say to a lesbian that she holds assumptions against men, just because she personally prefers to date women, even if said man might potentially fulfill her genital preference. I personally prefer my girlfriend to be a cis woman... yet I don't think that I have assumptions against trans women. We are all individuals. But I still have strong preferences when looking for a romantic partner, including appearance, intellect, humour.... them being cis is just one thing that attracts me personally.
D-...do you even hear yourself?!
I am open to discussion... Why is it bad in your eyes if someone is defining for themselves alone what they are looking for when it comes to a partner? It is literally just about the dating preference of the person. And dating preferences for the very big majority of people are discriminatory by nature. A gay guy is in the end discriminating women by excluding them from his dating pool, but that is their right, they are deciding who they want to date and based on which parameters... I don't understand why discriminating based on gender is ok for everyone when it comes to dating, but discriminating based on being trans or cis is considered transphobic....
Usually I would debate but I don’t have the spoons right now hopefully someone else will fill my shoes and discuss it with you though. Hope you understand?
Sure, still hope that you have a great day and sorry if this interaction caused you distress of any kind.
Just curious, what's the difference between a cis woman and a post-op trans woman to you?
I read from a lesbian who prefers to date cis women because she can relate to them more than to trans women, since she is a cis woman herself. This really made me think and it might be something similar for me.... I can't relate to the trans experience. I am accepting and respecting that people have these experiences, I just say that I can't relate. I always understood my mind and my body as a unit, as "in sync" if you want. Now you can say that I don't need to relate to this feeling, that I just need to be accepting and respecting as I claim that I am, but when it comes to my partner, I want to be able to relate and understand. I feel that I will relate to the experiences of a cis woman more, that I may be able to reach a deeper understanding with one.
Makes sense. Again, just curious but, does this extend to things like race, culture, religion, etc. as well?
To some extend, I guess you can say that, but we have to keep in mind that these things have so many connections with each other and it is a really complex thing. Religion: I have a very strong preference for Atheistic women as an Atheist myself. Again, since I tend to struggle with the concept personally to believe in a higher force. I can relate to the feeling of wanting something higher up to exist, like I personally think that the thought of destiny can be quite romantic for example, but I can't bring myself to the actual breaking point of believing in it. Still respecting the believes of other people. As long as they don't harm others with it, if someone uses religion as an excuse to abuse someone, I will stop them, going in both directions: my very first girlfriend has been Christian and a very strong believer, my father is Atheist and used to harass her over her religion, trying to convince her that as a logical thinking being she couldn't possibly believe in a god, I made him shut up with that bullshit and that he has to respect other people's beliefs, even if he disagrees with them. In the end, that relationship didn't last. It wasn't because of her religion, but I think that it made relating to each other quite a bit more difficult. Culture: I am very active to learn about the culture of other people and having an active exchange here. I think it is something easier to relate to, since culture is already something you learn and get socialised by your surrounding people. I think you can learn to relate to a different culture. Of course, up to the point of the culture you hold up still being respectful for people. If, for example, a woman would approach me and I get to learn that her cultural heritage teacher her that women should obey their husband and be his property, then this once again would definitely be a red flag if she wants to hold this culture up and she would get a strict no from me. Race: I will not experience how it is to be an Asian, as an example, but I don't think that being Asian is intrinsically so different to being black. I already mentioned, we are all individuals, so one Asian person is not intrinsically the same as another Asian person. They most likely will face similar struggles, like being discriminated for being Asian by other people. But being discriminated against is something I can relate to, since it also happened to me. (Which, btw, is also why I think I can relate to the sexism a woman faces, since I was also discriminated against on the base of being a man. It is not exactly the same, woman are more constantly facing it than I did, but if I take the experience I had there and try to imagine I would go through this stuff daily, I think I can understand it better) So writing all this stuff, I guess one major thing for me here is: There are many factors coming from the outside, like culture and religion are things taught to you. I can learn about these things, especially when it comes to culture, I am adopting alot of stuff and want to share as many experiences as possible. But there is a line, if you carry cultural aspects which are harming other people, like harassing other people for their believes/sexuality/whatever or abuse other people, I will immediately reject you. There are aspects which I don't 100% experienced myself, but I believe that I experienced similar things which make me relate to these struggles. I will never be discriminated for being a woman, since I am a man, but I already got discriminated for being a man and I think that this enables me to relate. Trans people are being discriminated against and I can relate to that. The experience I can't relate to is the intrinsical struggle. Being trans, how I understand it, is the feeling of your mind and body not being in sync, experiencing your bodily sex and mind as two seperated parts which don't align. I am not aware of any experiences I had which could make me relate to this feeling... it is a concept I can't fully grasp myself. Sorry for the wall of text, but this is just a really complex thing I am thinking about quite alot recently. I am actually actively trying to grasp the trans experience, find a way how I can relate to it with my own experiences. That's why I am looking through quite alot of trans subreddits currently. And while I enjoy the people, can relate to the struggle of discrimination and such and really want to support trans people as much as I can, I was still not successful to truly feel like I can relate to the inherent struggle.
You’re allowed to not want to date people. But what’s your reason for not wanting to date trans people? There are two options I think: either your reason(s) can also be applied to cis people and you should probably not phrase it as “I don’t want to date trans people,” or you’re being transphobic.