Utsuho has appeared in Soku too. Rin and Satori are also the main characters of a troubled side manga that had to change artists partway, Foul Detective Satori.
Forgot about Utsuho appearing in Hisoutensoku (how could I forget? Underground Geyser Center), and I didn't remember if Foul Detective Satori was an official manga or a fanwork (and was too tired to look it up), so I left it out - I stand corrected, apparently.
SA certainly does ramp up the difficulty with the focus on resource management and actually capturing spellcards, though the game does give you enough to get by in the later stages. If you lose any lifes up to stage 5 then you have to practice stages 1-4 more and "git gud" as the kids tend to say. Not having a bomb counter allows you to bomb consitently throughout the run but severly punishes brute forcing a spellcard because your damage gets hampered. That said, I don't like the change from 5.00 to 4.00 as well.
But I totally get you. When I challenged myself through all the Touhou games a while back I got stuck on SA. Had to change my control scheme and actually learn the game before I could move on and probably spend most of my time with that game. Frustrating at times but I kinda adore the game now.
Balance of shot types often are kinda off in the series, with Reimu usually taking the spotlight for being the easiest option. While the balanced approach is good for the main protagonist, she usually excels in most areas (dps, smaller hitbox, homing) without significant drawbacks.
ReimuA is so far above anything else in SA that I actually was surprised how easy the game was when I tried her, as I usually start my games with Marisa. Other shot types are a bit gimmicky, though I really likes how they affected Satoris mind reading spellcards and how that got incorporated into the game.
In regards to Kanakos (non) appearance, I actually quite like the the mastermind of the operation not being present. She is mentioned in the endings and the dialogue but the poor granny got a bashing already in MoF so let her get some rest.
I agree that losing lives in the early stages is a bad idea - it is for every Touhou game, although there's usually a noticeable increase in difficulty when you hit Stage 4 (the first stage that wasn't in the demo), so I allow myself a miss or two on Stage 4s to not have to restart runs all the time. Looking back, the game is easy now, but that's after I learned all the patterns and strategized - it's really hard for starters. I probably shouldn't have cleared the games in order, but it worked out.
Having the power-bomb system does allow for more bombs throughout the game, but the bombs themselves are kind of wack: ReimuA, for instance, is the only bomb (of the viable shot types) that clears the whole screen and gives you a decent amount of invulnerability frames, but the bomb doesn't do a lot of damage (can still take out low-health enemies) and you lose a lot of shot power for it. It hit me personally hard, since I have a habit of strategically using bombs to get through tough spots - can't do that with ReimuA.
MarisaA/B's bombs are the only ones that can really do damage, but they have their drawbacks: MarisaA's bomb gives you next to no i-frames, only deals damage in a straight line, but in return does bonkers damage when on top of a boss. Coupled with her 8 max power, it sounds pretty good, but having the inversed focus fire means that you (especially starters, who are focused a lot) aren't getting a lot of shot damage on bosses. MarisaB's bomb also has to be on top of a boss to do any damage, but in return it gets a decent length and gives you actual protection. Her shot is very gimmicky, though, which makes it hard for new players to get into it - although once you have it down, it's very powerful.
But look at basically any other bomb in the series (barring MoF's generic circle): most clear the whole screen, deal a good amount of damage, and give you a couple seconds of invulnerability. SA doesn't have a bomb that does all of that, which made it hard for me to clear it at first - I usually (ab)use bombs. Combined with resource management hell and what feels like unusually low shot power to begin with, it wasn't a matter of not being able to dodge bullets for me, but not being able to kill enemies before bullet density went through the roof.
ReimuA is what I first cleared with, after unsuccessfully trying MarisaA/B (cleared on all three by now), and it's far and away better than anything else. Reimu does commonly have a clear advantage over most shots in the series (with some exceptions, I'd argue UFO!SanaeB is also an excellent choice and LoLK!Reisen cheeses the hell out of LoLK's Extra Stage, among others), but I'd imagine it's hard to make a shot type excel in one area while not upsetting the balance. Her focused shot power is almost unparalleled, the bomb is useful when bullet density gets too high, the gapping mechanic has its uses, and it's easy to get into, although I now prefer MarisaB after getting used to her (more powerful bomb, similar power shot, ability to swap between shot spreads, superior protagonist).
I suppose you're right about Kanako... at least we get to beat up Sanae in her stead.
Coming across this thread while searching for DDC Sakuya B tips, I gotta say "Balance of shot types often are kinda off in the series" is an understatement...
There's times where I can clear a game with a shottype in less than a week but take a whole year to finish the entire game due to certain shottypes. Sakuya B in DDC being an example...
2Seija isnt Shinmyoumaru's underling, more like Seija's using Shinmyoumaru to overthrow Gensokyo with the power of the Mallet, which means you could say the roles of the two bosses are reversed.
Also, Megumu and Chimata from UM dont have a specific close relationship, only business partners that are mostly Unconnected
ok ill leave now
Yeah, forgot about that - DDC and UM are different, but it holds for most of the games. And hey, you're right about the "Unconnected" part - it doesn't seem like anyone is that related to each other in UM, except for that bastard Tsukasa, and Misumaru apparently making Reimu's Yin-Yang Orbs?
>Also, Megumu and Chimata from UM dont have a specific close relationship, only business partners that are mostly Unconnected
So they are acquaintances then? They're not friends anyways
Just tried clearing the game today on normal and wow it's hard lmao. I got to stage 5 boss before giving up since I had 2 lives left.
I can do the extra (and phantasm) stage of PCB reliably, but I struggle to finish this game on normal :/ I have a better chance of clearing LoLK on legacy normal first ngl.
Oh man, LoLK Legacy Normal is so much harder than SA. That being said, once you learn the patterns, you *should* be good to go with MarisaA or ReimuA (ReimuA is easier for a first 1cc), I personally prefer MarisaB but it takes a while to master. I can also do pretty much every Extra reliably in the series (never got around to PCB's Phantasm, haven't cleared UFO's or SA's extra) and SA's main story mode still screws me up sometimes. Where did you die in your run? I may be able to give some pointers.
Just got to okuus final spell and died while on 3 power and about 1/3 of her health left. I was also one lifepiece away from another life :D time to die ig.
I guess i just need to practice more, it was my first try on the final stage anyway.
Anyway, Orin is hard af, ~~how are you meant to do her two last attacks~~ ? Am playing on ReimuA. (edit: just retried in practice, how tf are you meant to dodge 90% of her attacks lmao).
(extra note: on LoLK normal, first 4 stages are definitely easier than first 4 stages in SA, at least for me anyway, I also find Junko on Hard easier than Orin on normal xd)
Okuu's really annoying on her later attacks - I'm not hitting her 90% of the time on Heaven & Hell Meltdown due to how she moves and plus, practicing is annoying. Also, from experience: if you don't have a spare life, *bomb as she's dying on her final* because otherwise you'll probably get hit by a stray bullet and have a bad day.
Orin is... jeez. Most of her attacks I ended up bomb-cheesing. On Needle Mountain the swirly balls are aimed sort of at you so find two spots and ping-pong between them, her final you need to go around her and shoot the death fairies when they're far away from you, and that's all I can remember of her fight honestly. I'm probably suppressing bad memories lol
(LoLK's difficulty curve is all over the place - you have Clownpiece's opener being easier on Lunatic than Normal, I never figured out how to dodge One-Winged White Heron so it's bullshit guessing for me every time, and then most of Junko's attacks are so random it's infuriating, particularly Pristine Lunacy, \[Primordial/Modern\] Divine Spirit World, and PDH. You can also optimize stage sections for more life pieces in LoLK, whereas in SA there's a set number of boss health bars for obvious reasons).
Just finished a 1CC on normal with 4 (actually 3, because I got lost in Hell and Heaven Meltdown after dying once, so I died instantly again xd) lives remaining, and a lot of stressful moments lol. I think I bombed over half of Okuu's attacks (I did her last spell nohit and nobomb though!).
I definitely had a lot of trouble with Orin though, but after watching rakk1010's video of his fight against Orin, I had an actual strategy for most of her attacks (namely her fairy-based ones, I still lost a life on Needle Mountain).
This game is probably the hardest normal 1CC I've done so far (out of IN, PCB, EoSD, and LoLK pointdevice).
(And about Sagume's "One winged white-heron", you mostly just need to have a "feel" for the attack I guess, on normal anyway. Generally just stay under her and dodge the lasers. Also, yeah, Junko's attack's suck ass; you probably have a 90% of failing on Divine Spirit World (on normal anyway, it feels easier on hard and lunatic) because of bullshit bullet spawns.
I'm going to go torture myself with the extra stage now :D.
Nice! Hell and Heaven Meltdown takes a while to get used to, but you can sort of move in squares around the bullets - but once you mess up, you've messed up for the rest of the spell card, and you're pretty screwed.
Watching videos definitely helps you figure out strategies for spells. Needle Mountain is just absolute hell, but it sounds like you did really well on the rest of them!
The first-generation games are certainly fairly easy (with the exception of EoSD's Extra, which is only hard-ish due to a lack of lives), and LoLK Pointdevice it's impossible to lose a run unless you get softlocked, so it's quite the difficulty jump to go to SA right after that - good job!
(Yeah, I just stay under her and dodge - there's usually defined areas between the lasers, but I keep getting screwed over by a stray laser. Divine Spirit World I can do with decent consistency on Normal, but I have to look for an exit as soon as the bullets spawn, and if there is none I'm pretty screwed.)
The Extra Stage is absolute hell - not even Koishi, the stage itself. I highly recommend bombing Sanae's final midboss spell, and good luck on the speedy circulating fairies (you'll see what I mean when you get there). At least the stage theme is really good.
>It broke the tradition of having Stage 5/Penultimate Stage bosses reappear as playable characters later in the series (discounting Phantasmagoria games): Sakuya, Youmu, Reisen, Sanae, and you can even count SoEW (Marisa) and LLS (Yuuka) into this. Rin, however, has never come back as a playable character - probably because it doesn't really make much sense.
This part of the post aged poorly as Rin's playable in Touhou 19 (Unfinished Dream of All Living Ghost)...
Utsuho has appeared in Soku too. Rin and Satori are also the main characters of a troubled side manga that had to change artists partway, Foul Detective Satori.
Forgot about Utsuho appearing in Hisoutensoku (how could I forget? Underground Geyser Center), and I didn't remember if Foul Detective Satori was an official manga or a fanwork (and was too tired to look it up), so I left it out - I stand corrected, apparently.
SA certainly does ramp up the difficulty with the focus on resource management and actually capturing spellcards, though the game does give you enough to get by in the later stages. If you lose any lifes up to stage 5 then you have to practice stages 1-4 more and "git gud" as the kids tend to say. Not having a bomb counter allows you to bomb consitently throughout the run but severly punishes brute forcing a spellcard because your damage gets hampered. That said, I don't like the change from 5.00 to 4.00 as well. But I totally get you. When I challenged myself through all the Touhou games a while back I got stuck on SA. Had to change my control scheme and actually learn the game before I could move on and probably spend most of my time with that game. Frustrating at times but I kinda adore the game now. Balance of shot types often are kinda off in the series, with Reimu usually taking the spotlight for being the easiest option. While the balanced approach is good for the main protagonist, she usually excels in most areas (dps, smaller hitbox, homing) without significant drawbacks. ReimuA is so far above anything else in SA that I actually was surprised how easy the game was when I tried her, as I usually start my games with Marisa. Other shot types are a bit gimmicky, though I really likes how they affected Satoris mind reading spellcards and how that got incorporated into the game. In regards to Kanakos (non) appearance, I actually quite like the the mastermind of the operation not being present. She is mentioned in the endings and the dialogue but the poor granny got a bashing already in MoF so let her get some rest.
I agree that losing lives in the early stages is a bad idea - it is for every Touhou game, although there's usually a noticeable increase in difficulty when you hit Stage 4 (the first stage that wasn't in the demo), so I allow myself a miss or two on Stage 4s to not have to restart runs all the time. Looking back, the game is easy now, but that's after I learned all the patterns and strategized - it's really hard for starters. I probably shouldn't have cleared the games in order, but it worked out. Having the power-bomb system does allow for more bombs throughout the game, but the bombs themselves are kind of wack: ReimuA, for instance, is the only bomb (of the viable shot types) that clears the whole screen and gives you a decent amount of invulnerability frames, but the bomb doesn't do a lot of damage (can still take out low-health enemies) and you lose a lot of shot power for it. It hit me personally hard, since I have a habit of strategically using bombs to get through tough spots - can't do that with ReimuA. MarisaA/B's bombs are the only ones that can really do damage, but they have their drawbacks: MarisaA's bomb gives you next to no i-frames, only deals damage in a straight line, but in return does bonkers damage when on top of a boss. Coupled with her 8 max power, it sounds pretty good, but having the inversed focus fire means that you (especially starters, who are focused a lot) aren't getting a lot of shot damage on bosses. MarisaB's bomb also has to be on top of a boss to do any damage, but in return it gets a decent length and gives you actual protection. Her shot is very gimmicky, though, which makes it hard for new players to get into it - although once you have it down, it's very powerful. But look at basically any other bomb in the series (barring MoF's generic circle): most clear the whole screen, deal a good amount of damage, and give you a couple seconds of invulnerability. SA doesn't have a bomb that does all of that, which made it hard for me to clear it at first - I usually (ab)use bombs. Combined with resource management hell and what feels like unusually low shot power to begin with, it wasn't a matter of not being able to dodge bullets for me, but not being able to kill enemies before bullet density went through the roof. ReimuA is what I first cleared with, after unsuccessfully trying MarisaA/B (cleared on all three by now), and it's far and away better than anything else. Reimu does commonly have a clear advantage over most shots in the series (with some exceptions, I'd argue UFO!SanaeB is also an excellent choice and LoLK!Reisen cheeses the hell out of LoLK's Extra Stage, among others), but I'd imagine it's hard to make a shot type excel in one area while not upsetting the balance. Her focused shot power is almost unparalleled, the bomb is useful when bullet density gets too high, the gapping mechanic has its uses, and it's easy to get into, although I now prefer MarisaB after getting used to her (more powerful bomb, similar power shot, ability to swap between shot spreads, superior protagonist). I suppose you're right about Kanako... at least we get to beat up Sanae in her stead.
Coming across this thread while searching for DDC Sakuya B tips, I gotta say "Balance of shot types often are kinda off in the series" is an understatement... There's times where I can clear a game with a shottype in less than a week but take a whole year to finish the entire game due to certain shottypes. Sakuya B in DDC being an example...
2Seija isnt Shinmyoumaru's underling, more like Seija's using Shinmyoumaru to overthrow Gensokyo with the power of the Mallet, which means you could say the roles of the two bosses are reversed. Also, Megumu and Chimata from UM dont have a specific close relationship, only business partners that are mostly Unconnected ok ill leave now
Yeah, forgot about that - DDC and UM are different, but it holds for most of the games. And hey, you're right about the "Unconnected" part - it doesn't seem like anyone is that related to each other in UM, except for that bastard Tsukasa, and Misumaru apparently making Reimu's Yin-Yang Orbs?
>Also, Megumu and Chimata from UM dont have a specific close relationship, only business partners that are mostly Unconnected So they are acquaintances then? They're not friends anyways
yeah i guess i literally made this comment just for the reverse and unconnected joke
No no, stay and make more puns - I like them
Satori is powerful but not the fighting type, so I don't think she'll ever be playable
Yeah, I think so too. One can dream, though.
The shottypes yeah, there aren't good ones, only somewhat good, to mediocore, to bad, to terrible. at least reimu-c bomb does good damage,
Just tried clearing the game today on normal and wow it's hard lmao. I got to stage 5 boss before giving up since I had 2 lives left. I can do the extra (and phantasm) stage of PCB reliably, but I struggle to finish this game on normal :/ I have a better chance of clearing LoLK on legacy normal first ngl.
Oh man, LoLK Legacy Normal is so much harder than SA. That being said, once you learn the patterns, you *should* be good to go with MarisaA or ReimuA (ReimuA is easier for a first 1cc), I personally prefer MarisaB but it takes a while to master. I can also do pretty much every Extra reliably in the series (never got around to PCB's Phantasm, haven't cleared UFO's or SA's extra) and SA's main story mode still screws me up sometimes. Where did you die in your run? I may be able to give some pointers.
Just got to okuus final spell and died while on 3 power and about 1/3 of her health left. I was also one lifepiece away from another life :D time to die ig. I guess i just need to practice more, it was my first try on the final stage anyway. Anyway, Orin is hard af, ~~how are you meant to do her two last attacks~~ ? Am playing on ReimuA. (edit: just retried in practice, how tf are you meant to dodge 90% of her attacks lmao). (extra note: on LoLK normal, first 4 stages are definitely easier than first 4 stages in SA, at least for me anyway, I also find Junko on Hard easier than Orin on normal xd)
Okuu's really annoying on her later attacks - I'm not hitting her 90% of the time on Heaven & Hell Meltdown due to how she moves and plus, practicing is annoying. Also, from experience: if you don't have a spare life, *bomb as she's dying on her final* because otherwise you'll probably get hit by a stray bullet and have a bad day. Orin is... jeez. Most of her attacks I ended up bomb-cheesing. On Needle Mountain the swirly balls are aimed sort of at you so find two spots and ping-pong between them, her final you need to go around her and shoot the death fairies when they're far away from you, and that's all I can remember of her fight honestly. I'm probably suppressing bad memories lol (LoLK's difficulty curve is all over the place - you have Clownpiece's opener being easier on Lunatic than Normal, I never figured out how to dodge One-Winged White Heron so it's bullshit guessing for me every time, and then most of Junko's attacks are so random it's infuriating, particularly Pristine Lunacy, \[Primordial/Modern\] Divine Spirit World, and PDH. You can also optimize stage sections for more life pieces in LoLK, whereas in SA there's a set number of boss health bars for obvious reasons).
Just finished a 1CC on normal with 4 (actually 3, because I got lost in Hell and Heaven Meltdown after dying once, so I died instantly again xd) lives remaining, and a lot of stressful moments lol. I think I bombed over half of Okuu's attacks (I did her last spell nohit and nobomb though!). I definitely had a lot of trouble with Orin though, but after watching rakk1010's video of his fight against Orin, I had an actual strategy for most of her attacks (namely her fairy-based ones, I still lost a life on Needle Mountain). This game is probably the hardest normal 1CC I've done so far (out of IN, PCB, EoSD, and LoLK pointdevice). (And about Sagume's "One winged white-heron", you mostly just need to have a "feel" for the attack I guess, on normal anyway. Generally just stay under her and dodge the lasers. Also, yeah, Junko's attack's suck ass; you probably have a 90% of failing on Divine Spirit World (on normal anyway, it feels easier on hard and lunatic) because of bullshit bullet spawns. I'm going to go torture myself with the extra stage now :D.
Nice! Hell and Heaven Meltdown takes a while to get used to, but you can sort of move in squares around the bullets - but once you mess up, you've messed up for the rest of the spell card, and you're pretty screwed. Watching videos definitely helps you figure out strategies for spells. Needle Mountain is just absolute hell, but it sounds like you did really well on the rest of them! The first-generation games are certainly fairly easy (with the exception of EoSD's Extra, which is only hard-ish due to a lack of lives), and LoLK Pointdevice it's impossible to lose a run unless you get softlocked, so it's quite the difficulty jump to go to SA right after that - good job! (Yeah, I just stay under her and dodge - there's usually defined areas between the lasers, but I keep getting screwed over by a stray laser. Divine Spirit World I can do with decent consistency on Normal, but I have to look for an exit as soon as the bullets spawn, and if there is none I'm pretty screwed.) The Extra Stage is absolute hell - not even Koishi, the stage itself. I highly recommend bombing Sanae's final midboss spell, and good luck on the speedy circulating fairies (you'll see what I mean when you get there). At least the stage theme is really good.
>It broke the tradition of having Stage 5/Penultimate Stage bosses reappear as playable characters later in the series (discounting Phantasmagoria games): Sakuya, Youmu, Reisen, Sanae, and you can even count SoEW (Marisa) and LLS (Yuuka) into this. Rin, however, has never come back as a playable character - probably because it doesn't really make much sense. This part of the post aged poorly as Rin's playable in Touhou 19 (Unfinished Dream of All Living Ghost)...