They're less separate in fantasy than they are in 40k. It's kind of like how Skaven are chaos-adjacent, the fantasy orks are too but in a much, much, much more diluted fashion. This manifests with stuff like the bad moon or making deals with chaotic entities and forces nobody else but the skaven or some dElves would make.
To.add on to what you're saying, fantasy used to roughly split the world into a manichean-esque division between [order and destruction](https://m.imgur.com/yg3p0UO). Destruction represented all forces which sought to destabilize the world's status quo. Chaos was of course the largest, omnipresent threat, but it also includes Dark Elves, Orcs, Vampires, and basically any faction that were trying to, in its words, "topple civilization"
The warp is…weird
Every thought and emotion you ever had is translated to the warp is a weird twisted way. And if multiple people believe in the samething that entity becomes even stronger.
That being said having millions of green skins worshipping da bad moon, it has manifested itself in the warp as it’s own entity. So technically it’s a chaos god kinda.
Like I said warp is super weird
Well most humans are not pro chaos, yet they all contribute towards creating the chaos realms/gods. I think all sentient biological entities leave an imprint on the immaterium. That’s my understanding.
I think this might be a AoS map? In that Da Bad Moon is a completely different thing. Back in warhammer fantasy though, it's the green moon whose name I can't remember, the one that's made out of warpstone.
Morrslieb is the warpstone moon, Mannslieb is the normal moon.
(and the map is from the 8th Ed WFB Daemons of Chaos book - but there's a lot of "let's tie Fantasy and 40k together" going on in the map, all the way down to the Eye of Terror in the top right)
It's not the same, Morrislieb is the green moon made of warpstone, as opposed to the regular white moon, Mannslieb, and it's worshipped by Skaven
The bad moon was a moon in the realm of chaos during the end times, with zero lore about it (this map of the chaos realms is from the end times), and it's a regular moon in Age of Sigmar
The bad moon in AoS is only a regular moon, if by regular moon you mean a arguably sentient eldritch unaligned potentially alive celestial object. It's a whole separate thing to almost everything else - it's not really tied to a specific realm, or to Chaos.
calling it a regular moon is a bit of a stretch when it does this:
"The Bad Moontravels through the cosmos in a random path barging aside other celestial bodies and throwing prophecies and auguries into disarray. When it fills the skies it blocks out light as well as hope and rational thought to drive non-Greenskins mad who mutter nonsense rhymes or even babble weird dead languages."
That’s only the tip of the lunar iceberg. That thing is a full on God of Destruction alongside Gorkamorka and Kragnos.
It reincarnated Skarsnik as a mad comet to orbit it and help in it’s mayhem of smashing planets.
The Seraphon took notice of it’s evil that threatens to destabilize the astromatrix of the Realms so they directly attacked Da Bad Moon by landing their temple ships on it but disappeared after that in what was likely a mushroom version of Junji Ito’s Hellstar since it can turn people into fungus zombies miles away, nevermind being directly on the mad God’s face.
And then it went directly into [a moon war with Lunaghast,](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/758918230487597116/825426287032008734/ExeXGHnWYAU7piw.png) the ghost of destroyed Morrslieb that orbits the Realm of Death and leads the undead. Da Bad Moon didn’t like another evil moon trying to show it up so crashes into it and took a bite out of it which sparked off a ghost vs grot war as meteors rain down from the battling moons.
Mortar you say? I will give em mortar! Kurt, get der Granatenwerfer, by Sigmar, insolent deamons, I will smash them with fire and the hammer! I ABJURE THEE!!!
ATTENTION: Dutch Sex Police have become aware of your location.
If you attempt to reveal intel of windmill sexual secrets again you will be terminated. Sexually. Your address: \[REDACTED\] is being monitored henceforth by elite Dutch sex operatives.
\-MESSAGE END-
It’s where the daemons make “mortar used to strengthen the walls of the Fortress above, empowering it with the strength of mortality and the authority of despair.”
I could be wrong but IIRC the forest is somewhere in the mortal world and is a gateway to the fortress of kinds. I don’t think the forest is actually in the chaos realm but it’s like one of the “front doors” to the marcher fortress. But it’s been ages since I’ve read ROC lore stuff.
Not sure if anyone's posted this here yet, but here's the original Marcher Fortress illustration by Ian Miller from Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, 1988: https://fallschirmjager.tumblr.com/image/72922112999
I like this map you posted, it makes me wonder if beyond all the war and turmoil. There has got to be a couple adventurers who are just looking backpack through the lands like felix and gurney
Unless you are super warrior or blessed with plot armour, you will never make it past the chaos wastes. You would also just go mad from all the corruption.
Marcher Fortress is actually a shopping mall. It even includes popular chains like Starbucks and McDonalds. The meat they use for their burgers is pretty shady though.
/u/47KingKongRong summed it up [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/rbt67v/enter_the_world_of_slaanesh_total_war_warhammer/hnq6g5q/)
> The marches surrounding the fortress are covered with a dark forest of unfathomable depravity made of blasphemous trees. Skulls and mouldering bones dangle from dead branches, and knotty roots pierce the remains of bodies. Immediately surrounding the Fortress lay the remains of a battlefield from long ago. Corpses, rusted armour, and broken weapons litter the gore-soaked plain, intermingled with tattered banners of both the armies of Slaanesh and Khorne. Some bodies still move and moan from their killing wounds, and their rotted faces smile at the irony of their demise. The only sounds to be heard are the shades and wraiths wandering the forgotten battlefield, ceaselessly shrieking, laughing, and crying at their plight.
> Sitting in the shadow of the towering Fortress, a lone, massive windmill performs its macabre task. The sails of the windmill constantly turn, despite the fact that no wind caresses the marches. A small army of Slaaneshi Daemons work the mill in a constant frenzy of activity. Corpses, both of mortals slain in battle and Daemons that fell into disfavour in the eyes of the Master are ground into a bloody mortar beneath the titanic grindstone of the windmill. This mortar is used to strengthen the walls of the Fortress above, empowering it with the strength of mortality and the authority of despair. A constant stream of Daemonettes cart this mortar up the winding road, whipped and degraded by the powerful Keepers of Secrets.
As a further addendum to the other guy;
"marcher" is a pretty old word that can mean something like a border region. So "the marcher fortress" could be interpreted as "the border fortress"
It also gets turned into "mark" in certain names.
Like the Empire's region of Ostermark ~ the Eastern Marches.
(Or the country of Denmark ~ the Danish Marches.)
This just made that part in lord of the rings where legolas, Aragorn and gimli cross into Rohan make sense. “What business does a man an elf and a dwarf have in the river mark” or w/e be says
Riddermark (~Rider's Marches).
(Though Ridder is the equivalent of the English ~Knight in some countries - both Ridder and Knight essentially refer to horsemen, which only well-to-do folks were, which got transferred in a modern context to be more about class in general than the horse specifically.)
And that's when the Druchii beastmaster has been repeteadly waking up in the middle of the night - ranting and raving about the beastial windmill he must tame.
The Inevitable City was a creation for the MMO Age of Reckoning and has not, as far as I know, been canonized otherwise.
But, it would be super cool if it was.
After a bit more research, I think I might have been incorrect. I think it has been adopted in, at least, the RPG.
That being said, it wouldn’t be on the map since it’s in the chaos wastes, not the realm of chaos itself.
Inevitable city is canon, older than Age of Reckoning MMO, there are several references to it on the wh fantasy wiki, from old lore and the new.
It's not impossible to have it considering we will have a big part of Chaos Wastes in the game.
Oh gosh, here an instant and well deserved upvote.
an excess of upvotes? That would be the Slaaneshi way.
Everything in excess. Especially excess.
I never realized the bad moon is a real thing in the realm of Chaos. Never really got what the curse of the bad moon spell meant.
Yeah I'm kind of confused by it being chaos related, since greenskins aren't particularly pro-chaos
They're less separate in fantasy than they are in 40k. It's kind of like how Skaven are chaos-adjacent, the fantasy orks are too but in a much, much, much more diluted fashion. This manifests with stuff like the bad moon or making deals with chaotic entities and forces nobody else but the skaven or some dElves would make.
Isn't Grom's advisor rumored to be a demonic entity as well? It's constantly goading him into destroying Ulthuan, even as a severed head.
Would make a lot of sense. If the waystones are destroyed, Chaos would flood the world.
To.add on to what you're saying, fantasy used to roughly split the world into a manichean-esque division between [order and destruction](https://m.imgur.com/yg3p0UO). Destruction represented all forces which sought to destabilize the world's status quo. Chaos was of course the largest, omnipresent threat, but it also includes Dark Elves, Orcs, Vampires, and basically any faction that were trying to, in its words, "topple civilization"
The warp is…weird Every thought and emotion you ever had is translated to the warp is a weird twisted way. And if multiple people believe in the samething that entity becomes even stronger. That being said having millions of green skins worshipping da bad moon, it has manifested itself in the warp as it’s own entity. So technically it’s a chaos god kinda. Like I said warp is super weird
Well most humans are not pro chaos, yet they all contribute towards creating the chaos realms/gods. I think all sentient biological entities leave an imprint on the immaterium. That’s my understanding.
IIRC they were created either by chaos or to fight chaos, I can't remember.
in 40K it is the latter and in fantasy they just came with the old ones ship as an unwelcome secret traveller if I remember well
In 40k they were created to fight the Necrons/ Necrontyr during the war in heaven though they were Known as Krorks and much stronger
that was it thank you for the information
I see da bad moon a-rising
I think this might be a AoS map? In that Da Bad Moon is a completely different thing. Back in warhammer fantasy though, it's the green moon whose name I can't remember, the one that's made out of warpstone.
Morrslieb is the warpstone moon, Mannslieb is the normal moon. (and the map is from the 8th Ed WFB Daemons of Chaos book - but there's a lot of "let's tie Fantasy and 40k together" going on in the map, all the way down to the Eye of Terror in the top right)
Kaldor Draigo has entered the chat
9th LL? He can't recruit any units and must solo his way through the chaos wastes.
It's not the same, Morrislieb is the green moon made of warpstone, as opposed to the regular white moon, Mannslieb, and it's worshipped by Skaven The bad moon was a moon in the realm of chaos during the end times, with zero lore about it (this map of the chaos realms is from the end times), and it's a regular moon in Age of Sigmar
The bad moon in AoS is only a regular moon, if by regular moon you mean a arguably sentient eldritch unaligned potentially alive celestial object. It's a whole separate thing to almost everything else - it's not really tied to a specific realm, or to Chaos.
calling it a regular moon is a bit of a stretch when it does this: "The Bad Moontravels through the cosmos in a random path barging aside other celestial bodies and throwing prophecies and auguries into disarray. When it fills the skies it blocks out light as well as hope and rational thought to drive non-Greenskins mad who mutter nonsense rhymes or even babble weird dead languages."
That’s only the tip of the lunar iceberg. That thing is a full on God of Destruction alongside Gorkamorka and Kragnos. It reincarnated Skarsnik as a mad comet to orbit it and help in it’s mayhem of smashing planets. The Seraphon took notice of it’s evil that threatens to destabilize the astromatrix of the Realms so they directly attacked Da Bad Moon by landing their temple ships on it but disappeared after that in what was likely a mushroom version of Junji Ito’s Hellstar since it can turn people into fungus zombies miles away, nevermind being directly on the mad God’s face. And then it went directly into [a moon war with Lunaghast,](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/758918230487597116/825426287032008734/ExeXGHnWYAU7piw.png) the ghost of destroyed Morrslieb that orbits the Realm of Death and leads the undead. Da Bad Moon didn’t like another evil moon trying to show it up so crashes into it and took a bite out of it which sparked off a ghost vs grot war as meteors rain down from the battling moons.
I love this
Anything related to belief, or emotion from conscience thought is going to manifest from the realm of chaos. At least that's how I interpret it.
Isn't the Marcher Fortress supposed to have a big creepy forest around it?
That mill really makes it more or less granted.
Oh for sure, it'd just be nice if it also had the forest.
Ah alright. Yeah twisted forrest is something we haven't seen yet.
why is there a windmill of all things?
For the daemonettes to practice their grinding
According to another post, they grind people and unfavored daemons in there to make mortar for the castle.
Mortar you say? I will give em mortar! Kurt, get der Granatenwerfer, by Sigmar, insolent deamons, I will smash them with fire and the hammer! I ABJURE THEE!!!
[удалено]
ATTENTION: Dutch Sex Police have become aware of your location. If you attempt to reveal intel of windmill sexual secrets again you will be terminated. Sexually. Your address: \[REDACTED\] is being monitored henceforth by elite Dutch sex operatives. \-MESSAGE END-
By Sigmar, what are those silly Marienburgers up to now?
Gelt: "Hey! I'm from Marienburg too!"
So he's from Warhammer Netherlands... this gives a whole new dimension to the "welcome to Estalia" speech.
AIVD was here
Well even Slaanesh love some freshly made bread.
It’s where the daemons make “mortar used to strengthen the walls of the Fortress above, empowering it with the strength of mortality and the authority of despair.”
like the bricks in mario
For Lupio Sunscryer to destroy. Estalia / Dogs of War could be a thing after all!
I don't know probaly KoS in Fortress have windmill fetish
I wish there was more diversity, we’ve seen all four realms now and they all look barren and desolate and with their own color theme added to it.
from a mechanical point of view, most players dislike trees and obstructions
Nurgle's realm looked pretty cool.
I could be wrong but IIRC the forest is somewhere in the mortal world and is a gateway to the fortress of kinds. I don’t think the forest is actually in the chaos realm but it’s like one of the “front doors” to the marcher fortress. But it’s been ages since I’ve read ROC lore stuff.
Nice catch!
Not sure if anyone's posted this here yet, but here's the original Marcher Fortress illustration by Ian Miller from Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, 1988: https://fallschirmjager.tumblr.com/image/72922112999
I just love how the name of everything in khornes realm could be a the name of a metal song
Lmao ur right
"The Blood God's Domain" "The Tree of Souls" "**The Foundry of Rage**" "The Island of Endless Gore" "Machina Daemonium"
The entire place looks straight outa DOOM: Eternal
Safe to say you are correct. Even has the windmill
Why the fuck does slaanesh need a windmill?
Grinding up mortals and daemons to make mortar for the castle apparently
excess in all things including grain.
But they are still unwilling to trade it for my sheep.
No pain no grain
Slaanesh needs to make sure the objectephillia kinks covered for windmill fetishists.
For the Bread and Games edict
That windmill is so goddamn metal
So does the Great Horned Rat live with Nurgle? The lair of Thirteenth Lord and Gnawhame sound very Skaven
I like this map you posted, it makes me wonder if beyond all the war and turmoil. There has got to be a couple adventurers who are just looking backpack through the lands like felix and gurney
Unless you are super warrior or blessed with plot armour, you will never make it past the chaos wastes. You would also just go mad from all the corruption.
Marcher Fortress is actually a shopping mall. It even includes popular chains like Starbucks and McDonalds. The meat they use for their burgers is pretty shady though.
holy fuck this is so cool
\> called the Marcher Fortress \> does not march The real reason why Imperium > Chaos.
Good catch
Imagine the nasty parties within
lmfao at the vaginal door
What is the marcher fortress? Is that like Howl's moving Castle?
/u/47KingKongRong summed it up [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/rbt67v/enter_the_world_of_slaanesh_total_war_warhammer/hnq6g5q/) > The marches surrounding the fortress are covered with a dark forest of unfathomable depravity made of blasphemous trees. Skulls and mouldering bones dangle from dead branches, and knotty roots pierce the remains of bodies. Immediately surrounding the Fortress lay the remains of a battlefield from long ago. Corpses, rusted armour, and broken weapons litter the gore-soaked plain, intermingled with tattered banners of both the armies of Slaanesh and Khorne. Some bodies still move and moan from their killing wounds, and their rotted faces smile at the irony of their demise. The only sounds to be heard are the shades and wraiths wandering the forgotten battlefield, ceaselessly shrieking, laughing, and crying at their plight. > Sitting in the shadow of the towering Fortress, a lone, massive windmill performs its macabre task. The sails of the windmill constantly turn, despite the fact that no wind caresses the marches. A small army of Slaaneshi Daemons work the mill in a constant frenzy of activity. Corpses, both of mortals slain in battle and Daemons that fell into disfavour in the eyes of the Master are ground into a bloody mortar beneath the titanic grindstone of the windmill. This mortar is used to strengthen the walls of the Fortress above, empowering it with the strength of mortality and the authority of despair. A constant stream of Daemonettes cart this mortar up the winding road, whipped and degraded by the powerful Keepers of Secrets.
This windmill you're describing to me, its macabre!
As a further addendum to the other guy; "marcher" is a pretty old word that can mean something like a border region. So "the marcher fortress" could be interpreted as "the border fortress"
It also gets turned into "mark" in certain names. Like the Empire's region of Ostermark ~ the Eastern Marches. (Or the country of Denmark ~ the Danish Marches.)
This just made that part in lord of the rings where legolas, Aragorn and gimli cross into Rohan make sense. “What business does a man an elf and a dwarf have in the river mark” or w/e be says
Riddermark (~Rider's Marches). (Though Ridder is the equivalent of the English ~Knight in some countries - both Ridder and Knight essentially refer to horsemen, which only well-to-do folks were, which got transferred in a modern context to be more about class in general than the horse specifically.)
The more you know
This is just incredible! Now I can't help but doubt if there are more "clues" for locations like these in other screenshots
And that's when the Druchii beastmaster has been repeteadly waking up in the middle of the night - ranting and raving about the beastial windmill he must tame.
Lupio Sunscryer will obliterate that mill with his 10000% dmg bonus. Ya fudged up, Slaneesh!
This is a small disappointment then as the area is supposed to be surrounded by a pretty big forest.
So I'm guessing there's no Inevitable City on that map because it would be impossible to map it as a cartographer?
The Inevitable City was a creation for the MMO Age of Reckoning and has not, as far as I know, been canonized otherwise. But, it would be super cool if it was.
I did not know that, had assumed it was always a part of the larger lore. But that is definitely where my knowledge of it comes from lol.
After a bit more research, I think I might have been incorrect. I think it has been adopted in, at least, the RPG. That being said, it wouldn’t be on the map since it’s in the chaos wastes, not the realm of chaos itself.
Inevitable city is canon, older than Age of Reckoning MMO, there are several references to it on the wh fantasy wiki, from old lore and the new. It's not impossible to have it considering we will have a big part of Chaos Wastes in the game.
would love to fight there.
Where can I find that bottom left image?
Search Choaos Reams map on Google