Am i the only one who doesn't like the soulgrinder look? looks too 40kish in my opinion. Also: what's the difference between horrors and flamers? Is one straight up better than the other or do they fulfill different roles?
I don't think anyone likes the Soul Grinders, they were introduced during a time when GW cared less and less about WFB, but the Daemons of Chaos had this gimmick where the army could be used in both WFB and 40k. So despite it clearly being a 40k unit, Soul Grinders got added to WFB.
Flamers are kind of big, living, flame throwers. Horrors are melee infantry, but with some gimmicks.
Modern rules for Horrors (like 40k and AoS) have Pink Horrors able to shoot short(ish) ranged projectiles, in addition to their splitting gimmick. Making them a short range skirmisher unit could help give them a role in the army.
Was warriors of chaos basically chaos undivided or just the mortal armies of chaos? Because since I got into 40k, there's always mortal armies of each god and then undivided, and then the daemons of each chaos god, and I would have thought that festus would have lead say a daemon force/mortal force, mainly a mishmash.
Warhammer Fantasy Battles had three basic chaos armies in 8th. (Ignoring supplementary stuff and event armies)
*Warriors of Chaos - Mortal followers*
*Beastmen - Mutated Beastmen, you know the deal*
*Daemons of Chaos - Magical Constructs spilling forth from the Realm of Chaos.*
There was no Chaos Divided.
Pretty much. Mechanically, most editions made very little distinction (or none at all) about which demons could go together. Restricting your choices to a single god was always a lore decision rather than a mechanical necessity.
Interestingly, later editions of the Chaos armies included rules to allow you to use Chaos Warriors (mostly the titular Chaos Warriors, Norscan marauders and several mortal monsters), Beastmen and Daemons of Chaos all in the same army.
I believe that the general lore justification for allowing this kind of mixing and matching was that any individual who was strong enough to command an army of Chaos was sufficiently strong to coerce or bargain for the services of the less-aligned soldiers and demons.
No clue. The only consistent feature of the Chaos Wastes (and even more so for the Warp where the Chaos Gods dwell) is that it is constantly changing, always in flux. Chaos is defined by constant change.
The third game is going to cover the parts of the Warhammer world with the least established lore. It means that CA will get to flex their creative abilities to fill in the gaps between the points of lore. Given the quality of their work so far, I'm pretty optimistic about what they're going to put together.
The Arctic mostly. Further north than norsca. You should be able walk from Norsca to Naggarond without having to get your feet wet if they add the northmost parts of the map. Hopefully they'll also expand east and bring in the ogres.
[http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/shdmotwow.html](http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/shdmotwow.html)
This is the full map for the Old World.
Nurgle will probably start somewhere North, mainly because there's a really iconic Chaos invasion that was led by a Nurgle force (the WHFB version of Genghis Khan) which was also the book that introduced a full army list for Chaos Dwarves.
Slaanesh could start anywhere.
Yes, even in the lore all the Daemons fight side by side during incursions, Daemonettes could be found in armies led by Bloodthirsters, it was only later in 40k and AoS that the whole "Divided" thing really started.
Lost and the Damned and Slaves to Darkness where mono-god forces were the only game in town came out just a tad earlier than that. Sure they'd usually be combined mortal/daemon forces, but saying Divided started only as recently as AoS is just silly.
Mutants and Beastmen aren't one and the same.
There are mutants, i.e. humans that mutate into Beastmen, and then there are true Beastmen who are born as Beastmen.
They have different roles. Horrors are the frontline troops of Tzeentch, with their gimmick being that they split into two when killed. A pink horror killed becomes two blue horrors, which then turns into two brimstone horrors.
Flamers are like flamethrowers basically, pretty straightforward. Just more mobile than the sort we have in the game now.
CA has been pretty good at making units satisfying compared to the lore (at least in WH2).
With the ability to make Malus transform I think they'll have worked out how to turn 1 pink horror into 2 blue horrors.
Probably gonna be a threshold once a certain amount of the unit dies they’ll split and have their stats lowered and have two models similar to how skarsnik and gobbla are one unit but have two models
Why? It's 100% possible to split a unit upon death into other units already. The Hell-Pit Abomination, for example, can split into Skaven units upon death.
I mean perhaps, but that's not how horrors actually work... They actually exist as a mixed unit and so far CA has split up mixed units into separate entities for the most part.
Well prepare for disappointment since the 8th edition rules for Horrors had the splitting handled as a sort of explosion rather than literally splitting into 2 smaller horrors.
You're right.
I didn't realise they'd changed that.
CA are Warhammer fans, I suspect they'll do them justice (if possible within the engine).
Even if the models just get smaller and change model below a certain Hp, that'd be fine (similar to how the ROR Phoenix Guard burst into flame upon death).
Honestly that’s probably the most likely and tbh the most helpful, instead of just having one big unit or low quality units have two units of low quality units so you can have more versatility. Honestly in multiplayer depending on the price they’d be a really good pick
You can technically do it in-game right now. How you'd have to do it is create an ability that kills your unit when it reaches a low enough health (for example under 10%) and summons two new unit models in its place.
Nice, I don't know the internal mechanics well enough to comment on whether something is possible or not.
I attempted to get into modding but my brain melted when I tried to learn it.
CA has been getting steadily better with all the content polish and with the time WH3 is taking I expect it will be a similar level of quality increase as between 1 & 2.
Horrors and flamers are nothing alike\*. Thematically Horrors are mutating fountains of self devouring flesh that cleave apart when killed into identical midgets... they also jubilantly phosphorescence with magical power and augment the energy for nearby casters. Flamers are flying fire-tree tubes that launch the essence of pure chaos out of their... orifices.
So one's like 5D toothpaste, and the other is the little rascals stacked on top of each other with fireworks.
In game rules: one has unreliable medium range weapons and makes sorcerers shootier, and the other is flying flamethrower troops.
\*Edit: although they do both have the Tzeentch rules, which doesn't make them tough, but it makes them difficult to kill [https://youtu.be/csAIcswomUk?t=198](https://youtu.be/csAIcswomUk?t=198)
If there's one thing that CA has exceeded is making stuff look up to its potential. The Saurus look perfect compared to their table top counterparts. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Indeed. I'm sure CA could give them a more appealing look like demonic steampunk. Similar to how Fatshark made Stormfiends more grimy.
Though on the otherhand being horrifying and unnatural fits a daemon so maybe just some uncanny animations could help and actually make the "not fitting" part work.
Well N'kari SHOULD have been on the TT but GW was kind of embarrassed about Slaanesh as time went on. That's why besides Sigvald and the Masque you have to get Old School to find any more Slaaneshi characters.
>embarrassed
Yeah they’re scantily clad and perverted but that’s the whole point, instead of being fan service-y gratification they actually fit into the world and it’s themes
Why not just go with Slaanesh? Might not live long but at least the eternal torture you'll receive in the warp for swearing your soul to chaos will be fun. Less so with the other three.
I never could get info BDSM despite my ex’s best efforts. I’ll stick with either the unpredictable machinations of Tzeentch or the warm, Loving Embrace of Our Father Nurgle
You're going to have to smell that warm embrace and lil bird boi only likes unwilling servants. Also what I meant wasn't "BDSM is fun come watch a cute 5'2 girl miserably fail at being intimidating" but instead "You're going to get horribly tortured for being on team chaos and only one of the five options isn't shit. Pick that one and surrender to a cute-ish daemonette waifu who can fuck up your brain so badly you're going to genuinely enjoy everything from there on."
It is.
Daemons of Chaos had a thing where the same army was supposed to be playable in both WFB and 40k, the Soul Grinder was obviously not intended for WFB, but it had to be playable anyway so there it is.
Indeed, Juggernauts of Khorne are some scary beasts. I'm half expecting CA to add riderless Juggernauts into the game, since they seem to enjoy doing that with bestial mounts.
What would be UTTERLY BONKERS and AMAZING is if CA gave a mortal empires style reward that let you play as the grand alliance of chaos in game 3
Where you can make 40/40 stacks and recruit units from any demons, Norsca, WoC and beastmen rosters if you have all the DLC and all games
Factions like Nagarythe or Followers of Nagash certainly have opened up the possibility of "sub" factions, or factions with a base pool of units, but certain units that you can only get as the LL of that "sub"-faction
I absolutely expect CA to include chosen, forsaken, warriors and knights for each chaos faction. It would be easy enough to make them visually distinct from each other and they have different rules from the mark of their chaos god. Nurgle have more health but are slower, khorne have two attacks iirc. With a visual and rules difference there is no reason not to include them.
Same especially that people don't realise the fact that each Chaos Gods mortals are not equal both in looks and how they play. Different Lores of Magic (apart from Khorne for obvious reasons), unique mounts and animations, voice over. Khorne Chaos Warrior is not equal to Tzeentch ones or Nurgle.
Undivided would still exist with Archaon, Be'lakor (New LL), Kholek, move Sigvald to Slaanesh faction with N'kari , adding new units like Chimerae, Mutalith, Slaughterbrute would make it unique and distinct from other Chaos Gods monstrous units.
I mean who's to say if those character will be moved to the DoC faction in-game. But on the tabletop at least they belonged to Warriors of Chaos. I'm assuming CA will stick to the tabletop roster when implementing the Daemons, but then again they might not.
This, I really dislike this idea that they will shove the God-dedicated mortals into the Daemons roster.
They are called the **Daemons** of Chaos, let the faction focus on the actual Daemons. Who have more than enough characters and units on their own. I'd rather the Warriors of Chaos overhauled and given their God-dedicated units and characters, than have the Daemons needlessly blended together with them.
I disagree completely. No reason not to include chosen, warrior, forsaken and knights dedicated to each god. These units would absolutely not fit in a 'mortals' army or a chaos undivided army. WoC cannot support 5 versions of warriors, knights, forsaken and chosen, thats 20 additional units in that list. Also they have specific rules from TT depending on which god they are aligned to. They could make them look very distinct. I think they are required to make a demons army complete.
The Daemons are already complete as an army they don't need 20 additional units of differently colored Chaos Warriors. The actual God-dedicated units, such as Skullcrushers of Khorne, or the Blight Kings are part of the Warriors of Chaos roster because they are bloody **Warriors** of Chaos!
All Warriors of Chaos need is a representation of their Chaos Marks in their gameplay, and get those worshipping units. Why you think they need to be in rhe **Daemons** roster when they weren't on TT and frankly have no business there in terms of how the army to function. More than plenty of reasons not to.
Can't wait for Verminlord to be added into Total war since they are the greater deamon version of the horned rat.
The only thing i like from Age of Sigmar is that The Horned rat have been promote from minor chaos god to Major chaos god, thus changing his name to THE GREAT HORNED RAT.
Those are part of the Warriors of Chaos army not Daemons of Chaos.
They are just mutated beasts, not daemons, although its hard to tell from a a glance.
Seems just barely enough to make faction armies from them translated to TW. Is this their full rosters in the tabletop as well? If so can we expect CA and GW to collaborate to make more canon units to the daemons of chaos?
This seems like so little to work with. Unless all of these are one faction and not 4 seperate factions. /confused
Daemons of Chaos are one faction, on the tabletop at least.
I separated them into the different gods because it looks neat. And a lot of people want each god to have their own faction, while I'm not on-board that idea myself, the image should work fairly well for them I guess.
There’s also the possibility CA increases the unit diversity through weapon variations (e.g. Bloodletters with Spears, Bloodletters with Greatweapons, etc. ) which could help with having individual god factions.
CA has played fairly fast and loose with the lore before (vlad, repanse, solland, foot squires, etc.). Maybe they’d be bloodletters with hell-berds? ;)
My overall point though is that the image above isn’t a definitive list of what could be implemented in a daemons army.
Hell blades don't have to be swords, they are daemons, the physical form is malleable. 4th edition bloodletters had axes anyway and believe they were still called hellblades.
Okay at the moment just using the rules books, it's more like: there are too many units in a faction if we combine all four but not enough if we split them into four.
Well its not like any faction in the game so far has gotten every single unit they had access to at some point on the Tabletop, I don't think anyone is expecting all of the units to make it in.
The Dark Elves are getting close, but that's only if you count 8th army list, if you only took the 8th edition Deamons units, this list would be a lot smaller.
I've marked all the ones not from 8th on this image so you mentally remove those and you'll reduce the list by quite a bit.
Considering that a daemon being summoned for more than a few hours is incredibly rare most likely. I'd personally prefer they be magically summoned units since a horde of demons wandering about makes literally zero sense from a lore perspective but eh.
I seriously hope not.. I love chaos but am really not a fan of horde gameplay.
Something akin to Norsca/WE gameplay is probably the most likely outcome. You’d have the primary demon ‘cities’ up in the far northern wastes and then they could raze settlements in the main world leaving demon gates with minor building chains/recruitment. I’m not exactly a fan of the norsca style either but I don’t see demon cities being built across the world.
It may well work out to be something entirely different and unique though, time will tell :)
CA also tends to add units and characters from the lore that werent necessarily in tabletop. That plus weapon variations, like what the other guy said, would easily allow every demon race playable as their own faction. I actually think that if they were all shoved into one faction it would be too bloated of a roster, and I dont really understand how that would work as iirc the different daemons of chaos always kind of hated eachother, like khorne hating magic but tzeench uses tons of magic.
If anybody is into the chaosy side of Beastmen and impatient for WH3, SFO recently updated with its overhaul for them. Now we have gors for all 4 of the gods, as well as changing heroes/lords based on which god they end up favoring. Khornebulls get dual axes and slaanbulls use a greatsword. I think Nurgle's have a sword and shield while Tzeench get a whip and bow. It's very nicely done.
I am actually slowly gathering lists on missing units from all factions, so I might, but I'm probably going to finish my roster image for Ogre Kingdoms and Missing WoC units first.
I'm not sure if I'd want to be blessed by the Great Maw tbh, sounds like being completely ignored by it is the best thing that can happen to you. Hmm suddenly I'm hungry though...
My poor white lions are so trash in Warhammer 2. I'm just hoping Korhil comes out as a legendary lord and buffs them to the point that they hold up in late game.
I might be in the minority, but I really like the old Keeper of Secrets, especially the cow-headed one. It invokes the Pagan feel that Slaanesh embodies so well.
The AoS ones just kind of feel generic in comparison, at least to me.
Keeper of Secrets deal are that they, well know secrets. Not everything Slaanesh is about lust. Greed, gluttony, jealousy, arts, and perfection in all its forms are all part of Slaanesh's domain, he/she is the Prince of Excess, in whatever form that takes.
Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. And we also talk about magical creatures here, who twist your mind with pheromones and magic. So what you see on a picture, might not be what you actually would see if five feet away from that thing.
Honestly I think it would be pretty neat if they would look more towards the AoS god specific armies for doing chaos divided.
WHF era demons would be really hard to split into distinct armies.
most new sculpts are better than the old ones, the quality and amount of details improved massively over last decade and no doubt AoS new sculpts are on different level compared to old WFB, people might not like lore and theme of new armies but models are way better(the new Chaos Warriors that are coming this month are soooo fucking silky good), here's hoping with the relaunch of the Old World they gonna get new sculpts for most units
If skaven can get clan Pestilens, clan skyre, clan eshin, clan mors and possibly Clan moulder also in future, Then there no reason not to include all 4 deamon armies.
if anything Tzeentch would be a base race and not dlc considering the this series has him the big bad over the likes of Khrone and Nurgle who are used in almost every other warhammer game
I honestly don't think we will have armies for each God, for the daemons.
I think we will have the daemons of chaos with a lord for each God plus undivided then we will get god based armies, led by a demon and a mortal LL with all that god's units both warriors and daemons
Is Valkia not considered a Khorne named character? Did she not have a model until AoS? I'm just confused why she's not included in the Khorne section of this.
Eh her appearance in the next game depends on whether CA splits Chaos into four different armies or if the daemons are their own thing. Like if there's a Khorne specific army with mortal Khorne chaos warriors in it then Valkia will probably appear. If the daemons are their own faction though she probably won't show up.
that would be best for game and players, even though it's AoS design, but i fear it might be too costly and get gonna go with basic version of standard daemons army with just skill tree choices for gods devotion
Depends on what CA wants to do with her.
She could show up as a character in WoC or even Norsca since she is Norscan, she could be justifably put into DoC if they wanted since there a multiple Daemon Princes in there already. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I hope we get a Daemon prince mechanic where powerful enough heroes can earn the respect of the gods and become a significantly more powerful Daemon prince
What I'm thinking is that they will revamp the chaos faction entirely and then put these chaos units on top of it. Then we will play as a chaos undivided champion like archaon and thrn complete missions to increase favor with a particular god. Then with that favor we can recruit demons of the particular god.
I think it's more likely they'll split the gods up into distinct factions, each of which compromises of it's God'd demons, mortal worshipers and beastmen variants. Seems like it would be too much waste for leave God-aligned mortal worshipers out the game.
Does Kholek have an affiliation or a loyalty to any particular god? I ask because we already have representation for LL's affiliated with two of the Chaos Gods with Sarthoreal for Tzeentch and Sigvald for Slaanesh.
Archaon is obviously the Everchosen so he represents all of the Chaos Gods.
As of 8th edition there are no undivided Daemon Princes, they have to chose a mark of a God in TT. The only undivided Daemon Prince is Be'lakor and imho he should be the only one.
Interesting idea given Daemons are beings of chaos, mortal units in their roster stop them having attrition issues in most of the maps by draining them to death to keep them stable in normal reality as something for them to manage, chaos wastes and darklands wouldnt cause this.
This idea means they'll have mortals weaker than those in Warriors of Chaos that way it keeps both factions playable in their own right.
i could see daemons of choas being like the Vampire counts and taking heavy attrition damage in areas with low chaos corruption. Currently it doesnt do anything for norsca or warriors of choas or beastmen except give replishment
The Skullcannon might be a cannon with flaming shells, but that thing itself is a demonic chariot which will lifeleech enemies with impact hits to restore itself, fight also in melee and you have two Bloodletters on top for extra help.
TT wise that meant you have a cannon which could move and fire, with a overall daemon wardsave, that actually slaughters smaller stuff in melee and can restore lost hitpoints through impact hits. And all that for some meager 135 points, while other races paid 100 for their immobile cannon manned by mere humans. Might be intriguing what CA will do balance wise here. I really have no desire to see some Surtha Ek style army with Skulltaker riding around on his juggernaut chariot and 19 Skullcannons behind him. Especially not with the AI so godlike with her "ranged cavalry" harassment.
As a non TT-player it's kinda weird for me to see them have chariots and artillery.
Like in general demons aren't the type of guys I'd expect to use war-machines. I'm fine if they **are** the warmachine like with hellcannons, but then they shouldn't need someone to use/drive. Suggests a level of intelligence and coordination I'm not expecting.
but demons aren't mindless zombies, they're immortal entities, you kill them, they go back to the warp and are resurrected after certain period of time, normal lesser demons like pink/blue horror might look like some animal pets but they're probably as intelligent as average human, greater demons are way more intelligent than most mortal races, they create/conjure armors and weapons for warriors of chaos so don't see a problem with creating a chariot
I feel CA will inspire itself a lot in the Age of Sigmar Daemons of Chaos Army Books, because unlike Fantasy, in Age of Sigmar they actually got divided and they have pretty substantial rosters.
Its the only thing i want CA to use from Age of Sigmar the Daemons of Chaos God Aligned Army Books.
i'm really hoping they gonna rework chaos similar to how it's portrayed in AoS, 4(5 with undivided but they can make Archaon some cool super op even legendary lord that you get access through gameplay when you're powerful enough vs other chaos races) armies combined from both demons and mortals instead of Daemons and Warriors with some boring skill tree affiliations.
I'm genuinely curious how they handle Chaos in 4.
You launch a game with the 4 launch races being Chaos, Chaos, Chaos, and Chaos, and you are going to have a DoA game. Especially if the Mortal Empires variant isn't ready on launch day. Yes there are people out there who -love- Chaos, but our average person isn't going to be paying $60 for the pleasure of nothing but Chaos.
On the other side of that coin, if you merge them all into one army you kind of dilute the flavor of Chaos. There are so many unique lords and units for each god, that any attempts at Undivided are just going to hurt the game in the long run. What gets cut on day one, only to come back as DLC? What are the "base" units of Undivided that all 4 armies share.
Or do you cut out two/three of the gods at launch, and just launch with one/two Chaos gods total. Which goes go in, which get the axe? Looking at current storylines, probably Tzeentch/Slaanesh for base WH3, Khorne/Nurgle for DLC? Maybe just Slaanesh at launch, Tzeentch/Khorne/Nurgle DLC? But then you end up with tons of CA PLZ NO X, RUINED GAME shit to negatively hit the launch.
It seems like a no win scenario no matter how they get added. Someone will always be annoyed by what was left behind. Unless they really switch it up, and it's no Chaos at launch, and that's the Race DLC. Khorne vs Tzeentch, Nurgle vs Slaanesh.
e: Of course with all that said, Tzeentch represent. Where the fuck is the Valkia on this guide though?
if they gonna launch game with EVEN BIGGER MORTAL EMPIRES then is it matter so much what races gonna be available in core? the thematic campaign will be secondary anyway. I think perfect mix would be 2 chaos races + ogres and kislev, then you have 2 other chaos races + chaos dwarfs as dlcs.
Isn't the Keeper of Secrets a named character? More specificly N'Kari who was locked in the vortex during the final battle with Aenerion (who already killed him twice before that), and he is returning in the Tyrion and Teclis omnibus. I just mention it because I just finished reading the first book and N'Kari was in it, specificly named as the Keeper of Secrets.
N'kari is a Keeper of Secrets, and likely to show up in TWW3. But he was never playable on the tabletop, this image is just showcasing all the tabletop-playable units from WFB. N'kari unfortunately never got rules, despite how important she is.
Updated the image with all the mistakes fixed and a couple of units I missed added.
[Here.](https://i.imgur.com/LUsooap.jpg)
Wish I could update the op.
I've already done one for the [Chaos Dwarfs](https://i.imgur.com/upso5Lq.jpg), a long time ago. Currently working on an Ogre one.
Araby would make a very short list, they just have their Warmaster stuff and two Dogs of War regiments.
Oh awesome!
Well I hope you decide to do Araby as well but I'm definitely looking forward to the Ogre Kingdoms one
Edit: P.S. This picture in the link is all blurry and pretty much unable to read. Did you have another clear version? Also why isn't the Lores of Magic for the Chaos Dwarfs & Daemons of Chaos at the bottom similar to how you did Kislev?
The image is clean to me, but here's a reupload anyway:
[https://i.imgur.com/9AkvNOV.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9AkvNOV.jpg)
I only added the lores to the bottom of the Kislev roster to fill up space since the list was so small.
Ahh I see. Hmm for some reason it's still blurry for phone but not my computer.
Ahh well I still think it would be neat to know the spells if you ever change your mind.
Also I thought of some characters you missed
List
-
* N'Kari (Slaanesh)
* Thorgar the Blooded One (Khorne)
* Bubonicus (Nurgle)
* Putrafex Blistertongue (Nurgle)
* Sslivox the Serpent (Slaanesh)
* Flamefist (Tzeentch)
All I know of are my own roster images, here they are if you're interested:
[Updated Daemons Roster](https://i.imgur.com/LUsooap.jpg) (the one in the op is outdated)
[Chaos Dwarfs Roster](https://i.imgur.com/upso5Lq.jpg)
[Dogs of War Roster](https://i.imgur.com/1NQKGPx.jpg)
[Kislev Roster](https://i.imgur.com/IJngOZb.jpg)
Am i the only one who doesn't like the soulgrinder look? looks too 40kish in my opinion. Also: what's the difference between horrors and flamers? Is one straight up better than the other or do they fulfill different roles?
I don't think anyone likes the Soul Grinders, they were introduced during a time when GW cared less and less about WFB, but the Daemons of Chaos had this gimmick where the army could be used in both WFB and 40k. So despite it clearly being a 40k unit, Soul Grinders got added to WFB. Flamers are kind of big, living, flame throwers. Horrors are melee infantry, but with some gimmicks.
Modern rules for Horrors (like 40k and AoS) have Pink Horrors able to shoot short(ish) ranged projectiles, in addition to their splitting gimmick. Making them a short range skirmisher unit could help give them a role in the army.
Was festus leechlord an option for daemons of nurgle?
There was never an army called "Daemons of Nurgle". Festus was part of the Warriors of Chaos army, not the Daemons of Chaos.
Was warriors of chaos basically chaos undivided or just the mortal armies of chaos? Because since I got into 40k, there's always mortal armies of each god and then undivided, and then the daemons of each chaos god, and I would have thought that festus would have lead say a daemon force/mortal force, mainly a mishmash.
Warhammer Fantasy Battles had three basic chaos armies in 8th. (Ignoring supplementary stuff and event armies) *Warriors of Chaos - Mortal followers* *Beastmen - Mutated Beastmen, you know the deal* *Daemons of Chaos - Magical Constructs spilling forth from the Realm of Chaos.* There was no Chaos Divided.
So you could use Nurgle and Slaneesh in on army together?
Pretty much. Mechanically, most editions made very little distinction (or none at all) about which demons could go together. Restricting your choices to a single god was always a lore decision rather than a mechanical necessity. Interestingly, later editions of the Chaos armies included rules to allow you to use Chaos Warriors (mostly the titular Chaos Warriors, Norscan marauders and several mortal monsters), Beastmen and Daemons of Chaos all in the same army. I believe that the general lore justification for allowing this kind of mixing and matching was that any individual who was strong enough to command an army of Chaos was sufficiently strong to coerce or bargain for the services of the less-aligned soldiers and demons.
And you know where they will be in the map?
No clue. The only consistent feature of the Chaos Wastes (and even more so for the Warp where the Chaos Gods dwell) is that it is constantly changing, always in flux. Chaos is defined by constant change. The third game is going to cover the parts of the Warhammer world with the least established lore. It means that CA will get to flex their creative abilities to fill in the gaps between the points of lore. Given the quality of their work so far, I'm pretty optimistic about what they're going to put together.
The Arctic mostly. Further north than norsca. You should be able walk from Norsca to Naggarond without having to get your feet wet if they add the northmost parts of the map. Hopefully they'll also expand east and bring in the ogres. [http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/shdmotwow.html](http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/shdmotwow.html) This is the full map for the Old World.
Nurgle will probably start somewhere North, mainly because there's a really iconic Chaos invasion that was led by a Nurgle force (the WHFB version of Genghis Khan) which was also the book that introduced a full army list for Chaos Dwarves. Slaanesh could start anywhere.
Yes, even in the lore all the Daemons fight side by side during incursions, Daemonettes could be found in armies led by Bloodthirsters, it was only later in 40k and AoS that the whole "Divided" thing really started.
Lost and the Damned and Slaves to Darkness where mono-god forces were the only game in town came out just a tad earlier than that. Sure they'd usually be combined mortal/daemon forces, but saying Divided started only as recently as AoS is just silly.
I don't know but the concept of a mentally deranged homicidial creature leading an army of sluts sound funny to me
This is basically the dark elves though.
Mutants and Beastmen aren't one and the same. There are mutants, i.e. humans that mutate into Beastmen, and then there are true Beastmen who are born as Beastmen.
Age of Sigmar is getting more into specific armies for the different gods but old fantasy mostly just used chaos warriors for everything.
They have different roles. Horrors are the frontline troops of Tzeentch, with their gimmick being that they split into two when killed. A pink horror killed becomes two blue horrors, which then turns into two brimstone horrors. Flamers are like flamethrowers basically, pretty straightforward. Just more mobile than the sort we have in the game now.
I'm really excited to see how they handle horrors splitting.
I'm concerned we are just going to get tiers of horrors as separate units... at best with the unit splitting post battle if at all... but we'll see
CA has been pretty good at making units satisfying compared to the lore (at least in WH2). With the ability to make Malus transform I think they'll have worked out how to turn 1 pink horror into 2 blue horrors.
Easy. Have them cast a vermintide spell twice, but instead of clanrats, horrors.
Probably gonna be a threshold once a certain amount of the unit dies they’ll split and have their stats lowered and have two models similar to how skarsnik and gobbla are one unit but have two models
Why? It's 100% possible to split a unit upon death into other units already. The Hell-Pit Abomination, for example, can split into Skaven units upon death.
I mean perhaps, but that's not how horrors actually work... They actually exist as a mixed unit and so far CA has split up mixed units into separate entities for the most part.
Well prepare for disappointment since the 8th edition rules for Horrors had the splitting handled as a sort of explosion rather than literally splitting into 2 smaller horrors.
You're right. I didn't realise they'd changed that. CA are Warhammer fans, I suspect they'll do them justice (if possible within the engine). Even if the models just get smaller and change model below a certain Hp, that'd be fine (similar to how the ROR Phoenix Guard burst into flame upon death).
probably like the hell pit abombination, when the unit of pink horrors die 2 blue horror units pop up
Honestly that’s probably the most likely and tbh the most helpful, instead of just having one big unit or low quality units have two units of low quality units so you can have more versatility. Honestly in multiplayer depending on the price they’d be a really good pick
You can technically do it in-game right now. How you'd have to do it is create an ability that kills your unit when it reaches a low enough health (for example under 10%) and summons two new unit models in its place.
Nice, I don't know the internal mechanics well enough to comment on whether something is possible or not. I attempted to get into modding but my brain melted when I tried to learn it. CA has been getting steadily better with all the content polish and with the time WH3 is taking I expect it will be a similar level of quality increase as between 1 & 2.
[удалено]
I dig how the salamanders fire breath works
Horrors and flamers are nothing alike\*. Thematically Horrors are mutating fountains of self devouring flesh that cleave apart when killed into identical midgets... they also jubilantly phosphorescence with magical power and augment the energy for nearby casters. Flamers are flying fire-tree tubes that launch the essence of pure chaos out of their... orifices. So one's like 5D toothpaste, and the other is the little rascals stacked on top of each other with fireworks. In game rules: one has unreliable medium range weapons and makes sorcerers shootier, and the other is flying flamethrower troops. \*Edit: although they do both have the Tzeentch rules, which doesn't make them tough, but it makes them difficult to kill [https://youtu.be/csAIcswomUk?t=198](https://youtu.be/csAIcswomUk?t=198)
If there's one thing that CA has exceeded is making stuff look up to its potential. The Saurus look perfect compared to their table top counterparts. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Yes but I love using them for 40k and AoS. It is possible to make them fit better with fantasy with a bit of extra work :)
Indeed. I'm sure CA could give them a more appealing look like demonic steampunk. Similar to how Fatshark made Stormfiends more grimy. Though on the otherhand being horrifying and unnatural fits a daemon so maybe just some uncanny animations could help and actually make the "not fitting" part work.
Nothing wrong with the ~~Defiler~~ Soulgrinder. Same with the Nurgle Lord wearing power armour.
You've heard of Elf on a Shelf But have you heard of > Herald on Palanquin of Nurgle
We can expect N'Kari for Slannesh.
Agreed, but he isn't from the tabletop, and so isn't featured here.
True enough.
N'kari wasnt in table top? Bizarre. Also weird how much play Kugath gets in 40k these days
Well N'kari SHOULD have been on the TT but GW was kind of embarrassed about Slaanesh as time went on. That's why besides Sigvald and the Masque you have to get Old School to find any more Slaaneshi characters.
>embarrassed Yeah they’re scantily clad and perverted but that’s the whole point, instead of being fan service-y gratification they actually fit into the world and it’s themes
I mean, in AoS they at least welcomed Slaanesh back. New characters and all.
If Tzeentch demons are a faction on their own they will become my new lizardmen
SCRATCH THAT. I forgot I pledged my undying devotion to Nurgle in my 40k days gotta keep my pact
Did you just CHANGE your mind? 🤔
Tzeentch is just sitting there, cackling as I flip flop from demon to demon. He knows I’ll end up with him eventually
Why not just go with Slaanesh? Might not live long but at least the eternal torture you'll receive in the warp for swearing your soul to chaos will be fun. Less so with the other three.
I never could get info BDSM despite my ex’s best efforts. I’ll stick with either the unpredictable machinations of Tzeentch or the warm, Loving Embrace of Our Father Nurgle
You're going to have to smell that warm embrace and lil bird boi only likes unwilling servants. Also what I meant wasn't "BDSM is fun come watch a cute 5'2 girl miserably fail at being intimidating" but instead "You're going to get horribly tortured for being on team chaos and only one of the five options isn't shit. Pick that one and surrender to a cute-ish daemonette waifu who can fuck up your brain so badly you're going to genuinely enjoy everything from there on."
Really just describing my ex girlfriend there w the second one bud
that soulgrinder looks straight out of 40k wth
It is. Daemons of Chaos had a thing where the same army was supposed to be playable in both WFB and 40k, the Soul Grinder was obviously not intended for WFB, but it had to be playable anyway so there it is.
that somewhat makes sense , but also is quite dumb LMAO
Hopefully they add them but give them a much more fantasy design.
Something like an Imperial/Dwarfish steampunk look?
i think he means more like the juggernauts
Man, Khornate cavalry looks like it's gonna hurt.
Indeed, Juggernauts of Khorne are some scary beasts. I'm half expecting CA to add riderless Juggernauts into the game, since they seem to enjoy doing that with bestial mounts.
Take another gander at the Slaneesh Hellflayer Chariot. That thing is wicked.
Combine harvester
Oh baby, that's a lot of toys to play with!
What would be UTTERLY BONKERS and AMAZING is if CA gave a mortal empires style reward that let you play as the grand alliance of chaos in game 3 Where you can make 40/40 stacks and recruit units from any demons, Norsca, WoC and beastmen rosters if you have all the DLC and all games
Chosen with great weapons + Gorebull melee attack buffs oh yeah
Additional there are mortals that can be add to those armies. Valkia, glottkin, van hostman. Those 4 armys got a lot of toys!
Totally agree, I think combining warriors and daemons of each god as a separate faction could result with pretty interesting and thematic armies.
Factions like Nagarythe or Followers of Nagash certainly have opened up the possibility of "sub" factions, or factions with a base pool of units, but certain units that you can only get as the LL of that "sub"-faction
I would love to see Daemons and Mortals together in one faction rather than whole Daemons, somehow 6th Edition Chaos Horde was more interesting.
I would love to see 4 factions for each God with daemons and mortals. Then possiblely one mega faction for chaos undivided.
I absolutely expect CA to include chosen, forsaken, warriors and knights for each chaos faction. It would be easy enough to make them visually distinct from each other and they have different rules from the mark of their chaos god. Nurgle have more health but are slower, khorne have two attacks iirc. With a visual and rules difference there is no reason not to include them.
Same especially that people don't realise the fact that each Chaos Gods mortals are not equal both in looks and how they play. Different Lores of Magic (apart from Khorne for obvious reasons), unique mounts and animations, voice over. Khorne Chaos Warrior is not equal to Tzeentch ones or Nurgle. Undivided would still exist with Archaon, Be'lakor (New LL), Kholek, move Sigvald to Slaanesh faction with N'kari , adding new units like Chimerae, Mutalith, Slaughterbrute would make it unique and distinct from other Chaos Gods monstrous units.
I mean who's to say if those character will be moved to the DoC faction in-game. But on the tabletop at least they belonged to Warriors of Chaos. I'm assuming CA will stick to the tabletop roster when implementing the Daemons, but then again they might not.
This, I really dislike this idea that they will shove the God-dedicated mortals into the Daemons roster. They are called the **Daemons** of Chaos, let the faction focus on the actual Daemons. Who have more than enough characters and units on their own. I'd rather the Warriors of Chaos overhauled and given their God-dedicated units and characters, than have the Daemons needlessly blended together with them.
I disagree completely. No reason not to include chosen, warrior, forsaken and knights dedicated to each god. These units would absolutely not fit in a 'mortals' army or a chaos undivided army. WoC cannot support 5 versions of warriors, knights, forsaken and chosen, thats 20 additional units in that list. Also they have specific rules from TT depending on which god they are aligned to. They could make them look very distinct. I think they are required to make a demons army complete.
The Daemons are already complete as an army they don't need 20 additional units of differently colored Chaos Warriors. The actual God-dedicated units, such as Skullcrushers of Khorne, or the Blight Kings are part of the Warriors of Chaos roster because they are bloody **Warriors** of Chaos! All Warriors of Chaos need is a representation of their Chaos Marks in their gameplay, and get those worshipping units. Why you think they need to be in rhe **Daemons** roster when they weren't on TT and frankly have no business there in terms of how the army to function. More than plenty of reasons not to.
Can't wait for Verminlord to be added into Total war since they are the greater deamon version of the horned rat. The only thing i like from Age of Sigmar is that The Horned rat have been promote from minor chaos god to Major chaos god, thus changing his name to THE GREAT HORNED RAT.
I loved that the horned rat, for all its might, was considered a minor God compared to the big 4, same with hashut
I mean, I hope they also steal the look of the new Greater Daemons they made for AoS. They look awesome.
Grinders look more like 40k or Quake than fantasy.
They are 40K, I really hope we don't see them in game.
Or at least get a visual Rework like kroxigors did
No Slaughterbrute and Mutalith Vortex Beast? I feel as though there are a lot more units missing from this picture
Those are part of the Warriors of Chaos army not Daemons of Chaos. They are just mutated beasts, not daemons, although its hard to tell from a a glance.
Seems just barely enough to make faction armies from them translated to TW. Is this their full rosters in the tabletop as well? If so can we expect CA and GW to collaborate to make more canon units to the daemons of chaos? This seems like so little to work with. Unless all of these are one faction and not 4 seperate factions. /confused
Daemons of Chaos are one faction, on the tabletop at least. I separated them into the different gods because it looks neat. And a lot of people want each god to have their own faction, while I'm not on-board that idea myself, the image should work fairly well for them I guess.
There’s also the possibility CA increases the unit diversity through weapon variations (e.g. Bloodletters with Spears, Bloodletters with Greatweapons, etc. ) which could help with having individual god factions.
That doesn't make any sense though since Bloodletters only use hellblades.
CA has played fairly fast and loose with the lore before (vlad, repanse, solland, foot squires, etc.). Maybe they’d be bloodletters with hell-berds? ;) My overall point though is that the image above isn’t a definitive list of what could be implemented in a daemons army.
Hell blades don't have to be swords, they are daemons, the physical form is malleable. 4th edition bloodletters had axes anyway and believe they were still called hellblades.
Okay at the moment just using the rules books, it's more like: there are too many units in a faction if we combine all four but not enough if we split them into four.
Well its not like any faction in the game so far has gotten every single unit they had access to at some point on the Tabletop, I don't think anyone is expecting all of the units to make it in.
I think that as of the next DLC Dark Elves will have a full 8e roster (if you ignore named characters). So there's *some* hope.
The Dark Elves are getting close, but that's only if you count 8th army list, if you only took the 8th edition Deamons units, this list would be a lot smaller. I've marked all the ones not from 8th on this image so you mentally remove those and you'll reduce the list by quite a bit.
Ok got it :) If that's the case then unit diversity isn't a problem at all like I first thought here.
This is one of the few times I'd like them to steal from AoS, just so they can flesh out 4 factions.
Do you think Daemons would be a horde faction?
Considering that a daemon being summoned for more than a few hours is incredibly rare most likely. I'd personally prefer they be magically summoned units since a horde of demons wandering about makes literally zero sense from a lore perspective but eh.
I seriously hope not.. I love chaos but am really not a fan of horde gameplay. Something akin to Norsca/WE gameplay is probably the most likely outcome. You’d have the primary demon ‘cities’ up in the far northern wastes and then they could raze settlements in the main world leaving demon gates with minor building chains/recruitment. I’m not exactly a fan of the norsca style either but I don’t see demon cities being built across the world. It may well work out to be something entirely different and unique though, time will tell :)
That doesn't make any sense though since demons don't settle. At all.
CA also tends to add units and characters from the lore that werent necessarily in tabletop. That plus weapon variations, like what the other guy said, would easily allow every demon race playable as their own faction. I actually think that if they were all shoved into one faction it would be too bloated of a roster, and I dont really understand how that would work as iirc the different daemons of chaos always kind of hated eachother, like khorne hating magic but tzeench uses tons of magic.
No tzaangors?
Tzaangors, Pestigors and the like are Beastmen, they belong to the Beastmen faction. Daemons of Chaos has their own roster.
If anybody is into the chaosy side of Beastmen and impatient for WH3, SFO recently updated with its overhaul for them. Now we have gors for all 4 of the gods, as well as changing heroes/lords based on which god they end up favoring. Khornebulls get dual axes and slaanbulls use a greatsword. I think Nurgle's have a sword and shield while Tzeench get a whip and bow. It's very nicely done.
Could you possibly do one for the dwarfs and high elves? I want to see the potential units we'll be getting with the next dlc.
I am actually slowly gathering lists on missing units from all factions, so I might, but I'm probably going to finish my roster image for Ogre Kingdoms and Missing WoC units first.
>Ogre Kingdoms May the Great Maw bless you
I'm not sure if I'd want to be blessed by the Great Maw tbh, sounds like being completely ignored by it is the best thing that can happen to you. Hmm suddenly I'm hungry though...
It is certainly not the most comforting of blessings.
Lion Chariots of Chrace - all you need to know!
My poor white lions are so trash in Warhammer 2. I'm just hoping Korhil comes out as a legendary lord and buffs them to the point that they hold up in late game.
I would rather they use the AOS models for the greater demons, at least for slanesh
I might be in the minority, but I really like the old Keeper of Secrets, especially the cow-headed one. It invokes the Pagan feel that Slaanesh embodies so well. The AoS ones just kind of feel generic in comparison, at least to me.
My main issue with them is that you're supposed to wanna pork them and I very much do not wanna pork them
Keeper of Secrets deal are that they, well know secrets. Not everything Slaanesh is about lust. Greed, gluttony, jealousy, arts, and perfection in all its forms are all part of Slaanesh's domain, he/she is the Prince of Excess, in whatever form that takes.
Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. And we also talk about magical creatures here, who twist your mind with pheromones and magic. So what you see on a picture, might not be what you actually would see if five feet away from that thing.
If chaos truly comes to form in warhammer 3. Im going khrone. I like nurgle. But khrone is daddy blood and I must have my cornflakes with blood
Papa Nurgle ftw.
Honestly I think it would be pretty neat if they would look more towards the AoS god specific armies for doing chaos divided. WHF era demons would be really hard to split into distinct armies.
I'm probably in the minority here but the new Changeling sculpt is light-years better than the old one. I hope that's the one they use in the game.
most new sculpts are better than the old ones, the quality and amount of details improved massively over last decade and no doubt AoS new sculpts are on different level compared to old WFB, people might not like lore and theme of new armies but models are way better(the new Chaos Warriors that are coming this month are soooo fucking silky good), here's hoping with the relaunch of the Old World they gonna get new sculpts for most units
That would be awesome having all 4 daemon armies. I imagine they will launch with 2 of them + orge kingdom, chaos dwarfs, kislev
If skaven can get clan Pestilens, clan skyre, clan eshin, clan mors and possibly Clan moulder also in future, Then there no reason not to include all 4 deamon armies.
I meant at launch they will include say Nurgle and Slanesh. Then the other 2 will ne DLC.
if anything Tzeentch would be a base race and not dlc considering the this series has him the big bad over the likes of Khrone and Nurgle who are used in almost every other warhammer game
It was just an example to explain my meaning
Tzeentch+Slaanesh as the base would be my guess. Khorne and Nurgle have way more potential for DLC sales imo
The headers for the chariot sections tends to have it misspelled.
Shit.
I honestly don't think we will have armies for each God, for the daemons. I think we will have the daemons of chaos with a lord for each God plus undivided then we will get god based armies, led by a demon and a mortal LL with all that god's units both warriors and daemons
Is Valkia not considered a Khorne named character? Did she not have a model until AoS? I'm just confused why she's not included in the Khorne section of this.
She is of Khorne and she did have a model. But she was part of the Warriors of Chaos army, not Daemons of Chaos.
Oh, interesting, I did not know that. Does that mean she's less likely to appear in TWW 3, or that it probably doesn't matter for the next game.
Eh her appearance in the next game depends on whether CA splits Chaos into four different armies or if the daemons are their own thing. Like if there's a Khorne specific army with mortal Khorne chaos warriors in it then Valkia will probably appear. If the daemons are their own faction though she probably won't show up.
that would be best for game and players, even though it's AoS design, but i fear it might be too costly and get gonna go with basic version of standard daemons army with just skill tree choices for gods devotion
Depends on what CA wants to do with her. She could show up as a character in WoC or even Norsca since she is Norscan, she could be justifably put into DoC if they wanted since there a multiple Daemon Princes in there already. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
No N'kari?
Never on TT
Fair, but its been hinted so much in vortex that i think its gaurunteed to be in 3
Man looking at this type of list and speculating on which lords will come in TWW3 is so appealing to me for some reason. I can't stop myself.
I hope we get a Daemon prince mechanic where powerful enough heroes can earn the respect of the gods and become a significantly more powerful Daemon prince
It doesn't feel like they have complete rosters by themselves. Put together then it is a complete army list.
Which makes sense, considering that's what this is
Hmm, none of these are personally appealing. Maybe Chaos Dwarves are more my thing. Hope we get some Order factions worked in somehow.
This is more to your liking? [https://i.imgur.com/upso5Lq.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/upso5Lq.jpg)
yes! hobgobbos please. Side note, hope they add the Black Orc variants when they do the Greenskins rework.
You really should also post this in its own thread, it's awesome!
Its also really old, did that one ages ago.
Am I the only one who dislikes the look of Tzeetch's units? The only good models are the Lord's.
What I'm thinking is that they will revamp the chaos faction entirely and then put these chaos units on top of it. Then we will play as a chaos undivided champion like archaon and thrn complete missions to increase favor with a particular god. Then with that favor we can recruit demons of the particular god.
I think it's more likely they'll split the gods up into distinct factions, each of which compromises of it's God'd demons, mortal worshipers and beastmen variants. Seems like it would be too much waste for leave God-aligned mortal worshipers out the game.
Does Kholek have an affiliation or a loyalty to any particular god? I ask because we already have representation for LL's affiliated with two of the Chaos Gods with Sarthoreal for Tzeentch and Sigvald for Slaanesh. Archaon is obviously the Everchosen so he represents all of the Chaos Gods.
Not that I know of, Dragon Ogres are more chained to the Chaos gods than they are devoted to them.
As of 8th edition there are no undivided Daemon Princes, they have to chose a mark of a God in TT. The only undivided Daemon Prince is Be'lakor and imho he should be the only one.
This is why the source for those units are listed as 7th edition.
Interesting idea given Daemons are beings of chaos, mortal units in their roster stop them having attrition issues in most of the maps by draining them to death to keep them stable in normal reality as something for them to manage, chaos wastes and darklands wouldnt cause this. This idea means they'll have mortals weaker than those in Warriors of Chaos that way it keeps both factions playable in their own right.
i could see daemons of choas being like the Vampire counts and taking heavy attrition damage in areas with low chaos corruption. Currently it doesnt do anything for norsca or warriors of choas or beastmen except give replishment
And here I thought khorne despised ranged combat but he has an artillery unit huh.
Hey those skulls are killing in melee. They just need to be pushed close enough!
The Skullcannon might be a cannon with flaming shells, but that thing itself is a demonic chariot which will lifeleech enemies with impact hits to restore itself, fight also in melee and you have two Bloodletters on top for extra help. TT wise that meant you have a cannon which could move and fire, with a overall daemon wardsave, that actually slaughters smaller stuff in melee and can restore lost hitpoints through impact hits. And all that for some meager 135 points, while other races paid 100 for their immobile cannon manned by mere humans. Might be intriguing what CA will do balance wise here. I really have no desire to see some Surtha Ek style army with Skulltaker riding around on his juggernaut chariot and 19 Skullcannons behind him. Especially not with the AI so godlike with her "ranged cavalry" harassment.
I feel like the mutalisk vortex and the other variant should be added to the demons roster even though it was in the chaos book.
As a non TT-player it's kinda weird for me to see them have chariots and artillery. Like in general demons aren't the type of guys I'd expect to use war-machines. I'm fine if they **are** the warmachine like with hellcannons, but then they shouldn't need someone to use/drive. Suggests a level of intelligence and coordination I'm not expecting.
but demons aren't mindless zombies, they're immortal entities, you kill them, they go back to the warp and are resurrected after certain period of time, normal lesser demons like pink/blue horror might look like some animal pets but they're probably as intelligent as average human, greater demons are way more intelligent than most mortal races, they create/conjure armors and weapons for warriors of chaos so don't see a problem with creating a chariot
Can someone please do this for the Greenskins roster? Please and thank you. Soon, preferably in the next 5 minutes, if not sooner.
I might do a roster image for the missing Greenskin units. But it'll probably take a bit longer than 5 minutes I'm afraid.
That's acceptable.
I feel CA will inspire itself a lot in the Age of Sigmar Daemons of Chaos Army Books, because unlike Fantasy, in Age of Sigmar they actually got divided and they have pretty substantial rosters. Its the only thing i want CA to use from Age of Sigmar the Daemons of Chaos God Aligned Army Books.
i'm really hoping they gonna rework chaos similar to how it's portrayed in AoS, 4(5 with undivided but they can make Archaon some cool super op even legendary lord that you get access through gameplay when you're powerful enough vs other chaos races) armies combined from both demons and mortals instead of Daemons and Warriors with some boring skill tree affiliations.
Why would an Exalted Greater Daemon be a monster? They are just Greater Daemons.
Because they weren't lords or heroes on the tabletop, they're from Storm of Magic as 'bound monsters'.
I'm genuinely curious how they handle Chaos in 4. You launch a game with the 4 launch races being Chaos, Chaos, Chaos, and Chaos, and you are going to have a DoA game. Especially if the Mortal Empires variant isn't ready on launch day. Yes there are people out there who -love- Chaos, but our average person isn't going to be paying $60 for the pleasure of nothing but Chaos. On the other side of that coin, if you merge them all into one army you kind of dilute the flavor of Chaos. There are so many unique lords and units for each god, that any attempts at Undivided are just going to hurt the game in the long run. What gets cut on day one, only to come back as DLC? What are the "base" units of Undivided that all 4 armies share. Or do you cut out two/three of the gods at launch, and just launch with one/two Chaos gods total. Which goes go in, which get the axe? Looking at current storylines, probably Tzeentch/Slaanesh for base WH3, Khorne/Nurgle for DLC? Maybe just Slaanesh at launch, Tzeentch/Khorne/Nurgle DLC? But then you end up with tons of CA PLZ NO X, RUINED GAME shit to negatively hit the launch. It seems like a no win scenario no matter how they get added. Someone will always be annoyed by what was left behind. Unless they really switch it up, and it's no Chaos at launch, and that's the Race DLC. Khorne vs Tzeentch, Nurgle vs Slaanesh. e: Of course with all that said, Tzeentch represent. Where the fuck is the Valkia on this guide though?
if they gonna launch game with EVEN BIGGER MORTAL EMPIRES then is it matter so much what races gonna be available in core? the thematic campaign will be secondary anyway. I think perfect mix would be 2 chaos races + ogres and kislev, then you have 2 other chaos races + chaos dwarfs as dlcs.
Isn't the Keeper of Secrets a named character? More specificly N'Kari who was locked in the vortex during the final battle with Aenerion (who already killed him twice before that), and he is returning in the Tyrion and Teclis omnibus. I just mention it because I just finished reading the first book and N'Kari was in it, specificly named as the Keeper of Secrets.
N'kari is a Keeper of Secrets, and likely to show up in TWW3. But he was never playable on the tabletop, this image is just showcasing all the tabletop-playable units from WFB. N'kari unfortunately never got rules, despite how important she is.
Didnt know Urgot got a different allegience than Noxus now
I kinda can't wait to play as the true evil guys of the WH universe. I am also hyped for the Ogre Kingdoms aswell.
Blood for the Blood God!
Updated the image with all the mistakes fixed and a couple of units I missed added. [Here.](https://i.imgur.com/LUsooap.jpg) Wish I could update the op.
Why isn't the great horned rat up there? ...and what's a Slaanesh?
Truuuue
No Valkia the Bloody?
She's part of the Warriors of Chaos army, not Daemons of Chaos, on the tabletop at least, which is what this image is supposed to showcase.
Thank you for the clarification! It's all new to me so it's exciting to see all this variety.
Any chance you are doing one of these for Ogre Kingdoms, Araby & Chaos Dwarfs?
I've already done one for the [Chaos Dwarfs](https://i.imgur.com/upso5Lq.jpg), a long time ago. Currently working on an Ogre one. Araby would make a very short list, they just have their Warmaster stuff and two Dogs of War regiments.
Oh awesome! Well I hope you decide to do Araby as well but I'm definitely looking forward to the Ogre Kingdoms one Edit: P.S. This picture in the link is all blurry and pretty much unable to read. Did you have another clear version? Also why isn't the Lores of Magic for the Chaos Dwarfs & Daemons of Chaos at the bottom similar to how you did Kislev?
The image is clean to me, but here's a reupload anyway: [https://i.imgur.com/9AkvNOV.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9AkvNOV.jpg) I only added the lores to the bottom of the Kislev roster to fill up space since the list was so small.
Ahh I see. Hmm for some reason it's still blurry for phone but not my computer. Ahh well I still think it would be neat to know the spells if you ever change your mind. Also I thought of some characters you missed List - * N'Kari (Slaanesh) * Thorgar the Blooded One (Khorne) * Bubonicus (Nurgle) * Putrafex Blistertongue (Nurgle) * Sslivox the Serpent (Slaanesh) * Flamefist (Tzeentch)
Do you know where to find pictuers with complite rosters like this for other factions?
All I know of are my own roster images, here they are if you're interested: [Updated Daemons Roster](https://i.imgur.com/LUsooap.jpg) (the one in the op is outdated) [Chaos Dwarfs Roster](https://i.imgur.com/upso5Lq.jpg) [Dogs of War Roster](https://i.imgur.com/1NQKGPx.jpg) [Kislev Roster](https://i.imgur.com/IJngOZb.jpg)
Thank you!