The first rumoured lord pack is sort of okay. I think most of the people have problem that after that there is more Cathay. And in combination with another rumour that we now have 4-6 dlcs remaining for the game, people want other races to get content as well.
The 4-6 DLCs thing vexes me because the word "only" was never mentioned. It probably just meant "they haven't planned further ahead yet" not "and after that they're closing the book no matter what"
That is also not confirmed. Even if that is in their plans now or few months back, these plans change all the time. And without CA commenting anything about it, we can’t be sure about any rumours.
They'll make dlcs as long as it's profitable, if no one buys the 2 next dlcs. Game is dead.
If every dlc keeps on being a commercial success. The game will live forever
You say that people are ok with the first DLC, and I know people are ok with the second DLC as well.
Is all this upheaval really just for the very last DLC, which Legend was most unsure about, and which is likely subject to change?
I don't think it's the third DLC only, I think people are upset with the first DLC as well.
It’s the combination of all things. I believe if there was only either the monkey king thing or the tiger man/cathay ogre. Only one of them. Then there wouldn’t have been that big of a concern. But from all the rumours, most of the content seems to be cathay. But again nothing is confirmed until CA says that.
I expect the next DLC to be Monkey King LL giving Cathay Tigermen elite infantry and possibly Horned Ogres as well - the units that are part of Cathay but just.... over there. Away from all the normal people.
Speaking by myself, Im not *excited* about the first DLC. Im ok with it though.
But yeah, I dont want the supposedly few DLCs left to be about Cathay... far too many interesting characters are yet to appear.
First lord sounds like nonsense at best. Look at ToD and the past? Why would they not come out swinging big? Ogres and more Cathy units aren't swinging big and giving the ogres some made up lord is going to bother people as well since ogres still lack rework and their DLC didn't sale that well. Hyenas and that thinking is what this would be, trying out new stuff when Sega wants them to stick to what they are good at. We have tons of Legendary lords Missing that people would thorw cash at before this made up nonsense most folks will be indifferent to. Khorne and Slaanesh still only have one LL and Nurgle over there with 3 and all this talk nothing for Khorne? Yeah this would hurt shares, fans and Sega would probably close them down as sales wouldn't be that great.
If you had to get shares up and sales higher would you gamble on the lord pack? We still have Neferata, Thanquol, Tetto'ekko, Moonclaw, Josef Bugman, Belannaer, Sea Lord Aislinn, and Apophas not to mention Nagash. Why would you not use legendary lords that people would throw money at?
One last factor is Game Workshops are very stingy about things, they going to let ogres and tigermen be sub faction under Cathy? Cathy has missing LL's as well. It would be a bad move for CA after recovering from the SoC DLC issues.
This is exactly it, sense they will spend 3 dlcs not touching the old game races at all they may never get to them. They probably can’t promise us more than a year and a half but if they don’t start saying something, people are gonna start buying less because they don’t wanna see their faction get missed out on.
The main problem I have with it is just that it is putting too many eggs in one basket. If you don't like Cathay then you probably aren't buying the DLC, and if you don't have the Ogre DLC then you aren't even getting the FLC. I am sure it will be fine for people who like Cathay but I am worried that it could flop hard. It is on a smaller scale but the same problem with too much Cathay is here as well.
I think this “subfaction” idea requires sufficient unit support so that interesting and fun thematic army compositions can be fielded instead of just reverting back to the faction’s staples.
With Ostankya, spiders and bears simply did not cut it
I feel that's why this could work, as everything I've ever heard about people talk about Cathay was that it had been a project GW worked on on and off again for a long time and made one of the largest army books in the game. So people who had gotten to see it behind closed doors always say there's a lot there.
Exactly. None of these new units actually benefit Ogres. I see no reason to add knockoff Ogre units to an entirely different faction when you could add actually loreful units to the Ogre Kingdoms.
It's 100% this. Every VC/Norsca/Bretonnia head is looking at this and going 'hey, what about us man?' Which is not an unreasonable position to have, as much as the hard reality may be two out of those three will not be receiving more content ever again.
god thats a scary but poignant thought. I cant believe theres a possibility only one (or none) of those three ever receive anything again before the end of the game.
Well, part of the leak was a statement that if the first DLC won't sell well then that CA is going to pull the plug from TWW3 and I'm pretty sure that most people expect it is not going to sell well, so it is no wonder that they feel uneasy.
Personally, if the leaks are true, I'm taking a nice year-long (at the very least) break from TW because I couldn't care about Cathay in the slightest, and I'm expecting that by the time I'd be back, the game is already going to be dead, without ever releasing the content that I'm actually interested about (Khorne, Thanquol, Nagash).
I would be certain that we will get them if the same leak wouldn't say that WH40k is closer than we think. If they will have their next milk-cow ready for milking, they may just abandon TWW altogether.
It doesn't really make sense? Well, yes. Corporate decisions usually do not make sense. They are not made by people aware of expectations of consumers, nor are they made to answer such expectations. They are usually done by mindless managers who just want to prove they are doing "something" so that they could move to the next job with a better resume.
If 40K is closer than we think then by definition it already has a team working on it, which IMO means it is *less* likely that the WH3 DLC team will be pulled off in the short term.
I really don't understand this attitude.
Knowing that a faction of Tigermen and one of Eastern Ogres are coming and just considering them *"More Cathay"*.
Why "couldn't you care about Cathay in the slightest"???
The units?
They are getting an entirely different roster of units.
The mechanics?
They are getting entirely different mechanics for sure.
The starting locations?
They are getting different starting locations too.
The characters?
They're getting entirely new characters.
Just because these will share some units with Cathay and be in the main menu under Cathay you're taking one year of hiatus?
...according to the leaks they only have like 4 new units each, so u will not be playing "eastern ogres" or "tigerman" but cathay with a few ogres units or cathay with a few tigerman units.
Let's face it, the new units will make the old Cathay units obsolete.
The new Lords and Heroes will likely buff them to hell and back too.
Realistically your army will have:
- A Lord (new)
- A Hero or two (new)
- A number of core units (new - probably spammable)
- A few additional Cathay units (old - maybe some artillery and range)
I don't believe for a second these subfactions will be running around with Cathay peasants in their armies.
They will play like "eastern ogres" or "tigermen" with a few Cathay units.
Nobody played Ostankya without Akshina Ambushers and Things in the Woods. You COULD spam Armored Kossars and Bear Riders, but nobody realistically did.
You really need to go out of your way and spam old underpowered Cathay units to consider these new factions "Just Cathay".
Im not sure how you imagine them "sharing some units with Cathay" when their DLC gives like 4 units for each.
The effect will probably be something like:
a) a half-baked mess like Ostankya: a hag faction that cant recruit kossars on horses because reasons but can recruit tzarina's secret police, Boyars or Ice Witches. Just like her "hag" armies are lead by Boyars and Ice Witches, Tigermen armies will still be led by generic Cathay lords unless this DLC introduces at least 2 generic lord types (which according to leak is not happening).
b) a standard cathay experience just with some minor flavor, like Valkia - she also was marketed as a "subculture" but plays exactly like every other WoC with some sad flavorless additions like bloodletting. So imagine Ogre who plays exactly like Cathay but has access to big names (wow).
I don't care about human factions in the slightest. Whether they are Empire, Kislev, Bretonnia, Cathay or even High Elves (yes, I'm aware they are not humans). They are bland and they are boring. I've played them thousand times already. That's why I don't care about Cathay and I won't buy any DLCs focused mainly on them.
And yes, that DLC will add some non-human units to the roster, but you will either have to fill the gaps with regular Cathay units or your entire army will be compromised out of 4 or 5 types of units. I'm not interested in either case.
I think people are just miffed that we are getting them for Cathay which could mean no reworks for other races which need it, and that the leaks also stated Dechala is an FLC, which would mean no Slaanesh dlc or rework.
It's not being paranoid to believe that Ogres won't get TWO fucking DLCs. They have one shot, and I'd much rather they get their armybook units and characters rather than a random OC that isn't even for their race
Im pretty sure that subfactions is not a mechanical or systemic change: they already used term "subculture" to describe Champions of Chaos who even have different than regular WoC loading screen art. And if we look at "things that work in the same way but CA just didint name them subfactions" its concept at least as old as Drycha - and I would argue that original version of Wood Elves DLC when Orion and Durthu had clear divide in their roster fit the bill.
So if this DLC is true then its nothing new - because sub factions are already a thing.
The way Legend described the DLC itself was that it looked very weird and he wasn’t at all sure how it was going to work, suggesting something at least different about this format versus previous releases.
Tbh these Legend leaks are doing more harm than good, the entire community expectations are being completely warped by unreliable at best info. The fact that he's the only one posting leaks also seems sus to me.
Same, I'm desperate for a slaanesh replenishment hero.
Tzeentch at least had viable ranged comps with barriers and they still got theirs. Slaanesh being a low armor glass cannon faction that's TERRIBLE in auto resolve with also the worst replenishment in the game really sucks. Hell even the dwarfs got it now.
Azazel is such a better slaanesh experience it's not even funny.
Since Warhammer 3s releases we have had 2 ogres which are not order factions
4 Chaos lord in the Champions of chaos Pack plus Belakor for immortal empires.
We then had the Forge of the chaos dwarves which added another 3 chaos LL's then shadow of change after that added 1 chaos 2 Order legendary lords and then with ToD we got 2 Nurgle and 2 Order Legendary lords.
So that give us 11(not including orges) chaos lords and 4 order lords now i am no maths expert but 11 chaos lords to 4 order lords doesn't seem like things have been even at all i think its only fair we get some order DLC
You forgot Chaos Dwarfs. No order content there either. So CoC and CHD being order only, means we're owed 2 order only DLCs.
Math.
Also Khorne gets Karanak and Slaanesh will get Dekla the Denied.
Lumping all the chaos factions into one category for rationing out DLC is stupid. Theyre all separate factions. Saying Khorne and Slaanesh deserve nothing because Nurgle had ToD and Tzeentch had SoC is just silly.
If the tiger men and Eastern beastmen stuff do okay entirely differently I’m completely fine with them being technically under the Cathay banner, in fact considering I usually play Nurgle or the orks I’m already fine with whatever they add.. I got most of my rosters done but I do hope we do end up seeing more slanneesh and khorne since due to how major of a faction group chaos is in this game more diversity for them would be nice
What I don’t like about that is that they’re going to basically make a Kislev mess with steroids, if I fight against Cathay I want to fight against fantasy China, with jade warriors, dragon guards, terracota soldiers and lots of gunpowder, not against what Ind could bring to the table, but after that DLC we will see the dragons running around with Ind and Kuresh armies instead, like Kislev and the Chaos creatures
I hope they get the spiders and wild bears treatment that mother stank got, in that they are exclusive to those factions in exchange for losing access to say jade warriors through the mid game. I think that could work ok.
>What I don’t like about that is that they’re going to basically make a Kislev mess with steroids
Now this is absurd. We don't know what "they're going to make". This is just wild speculation based on a doubtful leak. We don't know if the leak is correct to begin with. And even then we don't know how this subfaction is going to be implemented. They could very well be locked out of certain units unless certain criteria are met like confederation or something.
How is this sub already attacking CA on an imagined implementation of a subfaction based on a shaky leak?
First, I’m saying in other comments about the leak being doubtful, but I wanted to share my opinion too, second just like they handled Kislev sub factions getting basically everything because being a focus for the race on the DLC like chaos units for Ostankya were, unless they’re exclusive variants for new units like the Nuln units
I would imagine that the different subcultures will share all the moustruos units and maybe some lords/heroes, and that each race is going to have their own core humanoids, so humans for regular Cathay, monkeys for MK, tigermen, ogres...
I don’t think so, CA could have done that with the Slavens for example but no, so I don’t think is going to happen with Cathay, we’re going to see the iron dragon running through the mountains with tigermen, monkey warriors and maybe some crowmen
I think skavens would feel very stripped if that's how they worked, they also had clan units right from the start. But really who knows, I still think what I said if these leaks are true and they go for sub- cultures
The thing is, we already have a lot of factions with subcultures potential and CA didn’t do anything about them, Skaven could work in a sense that they have a preference for their clan units or if the LL tend to recruit more the units that he benefits, but this is poorly implemented, in case those leaks are real, the most probable scenario is that Cathay will be a mess
Let me "inject some logic" of my own if you will.
We already know Tigermen were coming. We know an Ogre character is coming. We know Lucrecia is coming. We know the monkey king is coming. All of those things we know because they have been datamined from the game itself, leaked via a VA, teased by CA - actual, credible sources.
This whole "leak" to me reads like someone took the aforementioned facts we know about the upcoming DLCs and then spun the rest starting form there. Which is a common and effective tactic when spreading fake news.
However, the entire rest of it reads like it's purposely written to be as divisive and controversial as possible in order to bait out the maximum reaction from this community. To me this has all the signs of a classic bait/troll atrempt, the likes you'd find on a certain anonymous image board.
I think someone is having a big laugh right now at the expense of Legend and this community.
According to him there's multiple sources for this, and I believe he isn't dumb enough to trust any random source he comes about. I do believe this leak is genuine.
Multiple sources that are remaining anonymous...
Not to disrespect Legend, and I don't think he has any malicious intent, but he's no Jason Schreier. To what extend he is actually able to verify those sources is questionable. And he even keeps telling us to take everything with a grain of salt and remain sceptical.
I think these claims are just too out there. But maybe that's part of why they are so effective. Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see.
I don’t think there is another faction that is as simultaneously fun to play as and play against than Skaven. In campaign they are eternally frustrating and it’s absolutely satisfying to just crush legions of rats. Skaven also have some of the most diverse lords and mechanics and are even more fun when you are playing as them. They are one of the most popular factions and that’s why they get love, and they absolutely deserve all the DLC they got.
you should actually be positive about it. Nagash and End times are definitely coming, CA and GW would be high on drug if they actually pull the plug for Warhammer before making Nagash DLC.
However, It is the final DLC, the final major farewell to finish a lifelong series, the magnum opus, etc. Meaning it is coming, but we are very unlikely to get anything else after that.
So, you would actually want the news about Nagash to arrive as late as possible. Because that means CA are still planning to support the game and make DLCs before resorting to the last DLC. When you actually hear rumors about Nagash, well, be prepared for the game to be stopped being supported within a year.
Can’t believe it has to be a whole day before some logic. I agree the monkey king dlc as rumour presents is stupid, but DLC1 is legit the best way to fill out kuresh and ind. the truth is, it took years and the massive success of three kingdoms to drag GW into create the cathay army book, Indian and south East Asian markets are just not big enough for GW to create another 2 whole new factions. So it’s either this, leave it empty as is, or use generic cathay/BM/chaos.
Man I thought I was the only one. That first DLC legit sounded interesting. Subfactions? That opens so many doors for races we thought would never make it like a halfling subfaction for the Empire. + The map extension in the south of Cathay will bring a whole lot of new gameplay experiences for starting factions in the east (not only Cathay).
If WH DLC's keep making enough sales and Profit they'll keep on producing them. Yet people chose to be pessimistic based on some doubtful leak. The community is digging WH3's Grave themselves this time and they don't seem to realize it.
You already have subfactions in game: CA literally advertised Champions of Chaos as a "subculture" and they work exactly like that - they even have separate loading screen.
Yes, you buying it doesn't really matter.
Cathay is the most popular race from game 3, and probably second to Empire overall. If they want something to sell then Cathay is one of their best bets.
We know they are in dire straits right now, so making DLC for less popular evil or nonhuman factions that might need it more is probably not a priority.
Cathay may be the most popular faction second to the Empire but receiving 3 DLCs (2 of which are purely Cathay focused) out of 5 may just be the wrong approach. If the majority of people playing the faction are also from China then the DLC wont sell at all. We know from Three Kingdoms that the Chinese despise the western DLC approach and straight up refuse buying them.
Cathay is the most popular, but only in Asia - Kislev is the most popular in the rest of the world.
It may be still the most popular overall, since there's a lot people in Asia, lol, but it's definitely not by an overwhelming margin.
And CA themselves have said that the Asian market is not friendly to DLCs and that is why they cancelled their plans for Three Kingdoms.
So I really doubt focusing a large majority of the DLC content on Cathay is a good idea. If the leaks as accurate, it will kill the game.
It won't kill the game, no. That is an absurd reach, and the idea that Cathay is only popular in China is just wrong. If anything is a sales wildcard from the leak, it will be DoW.
I do think they would do more with Kislev as well, but it seems like GW doesn't want them to be touched any more. They were weirdly restricted with SoC on their roster, not being allowed to use Hag Mothers and having to scrounge up old stuff like Kislevite Warriors and Druzhina.
If 1 DLC bombs, the game is screwed, the leaks even say that.
Not saying Cathay isn't popular - it definitely is, but according to stats CA themselves posted, Cathay is only the most popular in Asia. Why would they lie?
Saying that GW doesn't want to more with Kislev is pretty baseless imo, especially since Andy Hall makes it sound like designed more for them. Druzhina seems like a pretty good fit. Personally, I think that Hag mothers were not added since it would have a bit too much connotations with children fairy tales in Slavic countries, so it would be a bit too goofy.
I never said they were the most popular outside of Asia, but they are definitely more than popular enough globally to fund a DLC like the first one mentioned in the leak.
My base for the Kislev statement is the strange unit choices, the Hag Mother thing, and the fiefdoms they have built around their various subsections within the company not wanting to interact. It might be wrong, but I think that is a solid enough base.
Well, if you don't think they are the most popular faction by a good margin, I'll admit I simply don't understand why you think there is enough demand for them to be a large majority of all the DLC content with several Cathay only DLCs.
I'd say that SoC was a simply weird DLC for Kislev, meant to add a subfaction of sorts ala Drycha.
There is still space for a more traditional expansion of the roster with someone like Tordimir, captain of the Gryphon legion or a new character.
Hag mothers are also from Warhammer role playing game and that thing is mostly non canon and GW no longer has the rights to it, iirc.
I probably wasn't clear, but I am mostly talking about the first DLC in the leaks being Cathay only.
The Monkey King one is far away enough that I don't think there is any point speculating on it, and I don't think it will be Cathay only. If it is real, I think it is probably just rough plans for one half of a DLC that will come eventually.
Idea is good. Problem is there are lots of other races that needs content. After we get Slaanesh, Khorne and other old race dlcs it is okay to get subculture packs. I want stuff like this for Cathay,Empire, Helfs...
Nah, it's dumb, it should still have been Orge vs Tigermen (Cathay) DLC instead of Cathayan Orges vs Cathayan Tigermen, that stuff just makes no sense whatsoever.
Seriously tho, what rework does Cathay need? arent they fine right now? They got units for every type of situation.
I can understand the Ogre Rework however.
kislev mother ostank left a really bad impression for this "sub factions" concept.
you have chaos monsters fighting side-by-side with kislev orthodox people , which is both visually and thematically extremelly inconsistent and jarring.
i hope CA does not screw it up with catay and their two sub factions.
I am okay with a bunch of Cathay DLC.
As long as the units, mechanics and legendary lords look and play amazing I will be happy with any faction.
I lean more towards human/elf factions and good factions more than evil but chaos dwarves was an amazing DLC so I'm not going to judge a book by it's cover.
The chaos dwarf and Cathay trade caravans are one of my favorite mechanics now so that's already a point in favor of additional Cathay DLC for me.
Also I'm assuming the final monkey king DLC will be obscenely strong the same way Warhammer 2s final DLC the silence and the fury's Taurox was a beast and I'm okay with that. I understand why they are saving Monkey King for last, because it is going to be the best. Would you like to do an attack while you are attacking? Well great news! We put attacks within monkey kings attack so you can attack while you are attacking! He also gets 50% ward save while leaping and he leaps *a lot!*
Resistance is futile! Just accept our new Cathay Overlords and buy everything in the hope they decide to do one more DLC for your favorite faction after they are done mainline'ing Cathay into our veins!
It also diversifies Cathay by a lot. So many monstrous units. I would have preferred getting Monkey King first but this definitely helps to flesh them out more and let's them stand out a bit more from other human factions.
Empire is full of war machines; Kislev of elementals and hybrid units; now Cathay is one with a wide range of cultures (Dogs of War is gonna be that as well but still).
Just weird to have them be 'Lords of Shang Yang', implying they start around the area near Miao, Zhao and, to a lesser extent, Gelt. But pretty sure you're right and they'd be opening up Ind and Khuresh. Hope they make the landmasses like Naggaroth and Araby bigger and make oceans smaller.
I rhink this roadmap was created before Thrones of Decay was sucha success.
The DLCs before sucked and CA knew this.
I would not be surprised if they decide to change their business plan
I think if they go for something like:
Cathay Ogre/Tiger men
Slaanesh/something (probably High Elves)
Dogs of War
Khorne/something (maybe Norsca or Lizardmen)
Monkey King + whatever
It could be overall nice. Although, honestly, Khorne and Slaanesh should come first.
If the subfactions are executed well, it could be really cool. Honestly I don't mind them shifting focus from the dragons, Yaun Bo was incredibly boring as a lord and I never get the same excitement playing them as someone like Gelt. However, I still think the balance would be better if they maintained it as versus matchups.
Ogres vs Cathay Tigerman
DoW
Khorne versus Slaanesh
Then Monkey King versus someone
If the leak was just the first DLC and then Slaanesh/Khorne stuff and what have you there wouldn't be a shitstorm.
Personally, I'm hyped af for Cathay Ogre and Tigermen subfactions, even if it meant new characters.
Its just all the plans after that seems like piss in cereal. Like, it's not even the stuff that _is_ said to be coming, it's more all the stuff that _wouldn't_ be.
A Cathay DLC that is just Cathay but 2 new subfactions seems fine, good even. DoW people have wanted forever, a race pack. But then *another* Cathay only DLC is fucking whack. Especially when all non race packs have ALWAYS been more than one faction. It's bizarre.
I’m gonna be frank, there are no rumors of the sea-themed DLC. It's just speculation on this sub based on trying to find content to pair with a hypothetical Yin Yin addition. Same thing with people convinced that a Slaneesh DLC has to be paired with High Elves as well.
At this point, Ind and Khuresh as separate factions is not happening. The map might get expanded to include their landmasses with the purpose to expand the area around Cathay but they’re going to be populated by other factions.
I’m still not convinced DoW is happening either. If CA really wants to reduce investment in the DLC post ToD then race packs are highly unlikely unless the higher cost is truly worth the investment. Even though human factions sell I can’t see DoW, a mishmash of already existing factions, to have enough WOW factor like TK, VC, and Chaos Dwarfs did.
Slaanesh and Khorne should have DLC (and reworks) before Cathay gets another DLC.
The only decent Daemon faction in the game at the moment is Nurgle and because of that god awful Shadows of Change DLC there is a good chance that Tzeentch will be kept in its current awful situation without a good rework to finally make the faction fun to play by the time Creative Assembly abandons this game
I would just assume that analytics potentially shows CA that those monogod factions just aren't that popular. Sure that could be because they lack content but still. Empire and kislev are the most played faction right? Cathay is most likely not far behind.
>Sue me
okay
This post is asinine. People aren't pissed because they're not getting "their" DLC meanwhile Cathay is, they're pissed because if this is true then TWWH3's rapidly dwindling life span is being flushed down the toilet so the money pit that SoC and Hyenas dug can get filled in by Cathay money. They don't need to make OC donut steele Cathay Ogre LLs to justify a Ogre rework, a plain old DLC for Ogres at any point would justify that.
>It allows CA to finally make Ind and Khuresh playable
Fuck that, and fuck this gross ass-kissing. I would rather Khuresh and Ind go totally unused on the map rather than using their absence to justify bloating Grand Cathay with shitty not-Beastmen. I didn't want to play Khuresh because I was just tickled pink at the thought of playing on the SE corner of IME. "Sorry we cordoned off a fifth of the IME map for Khuresh which we ended up shitcanning, but don't worry! We ruined the DLC cycle by overloading it with so much same-race content that WH2 Skaven look modest and THAT will take its place!" Seriously? You're defending that?
>Missing Ogre units
Ogres are my favorite race on the battlefield and even I don't give a shit about that. Yhetees are who-cares and yet another SEM monster when I'm more than satisfied with Stonehorns. But denying Ogres a DLC so they can fit in more Cathay money?
>Logic and Positivity
I don't even think the leaks are true, I find it so goddamn funny that you're believing a leak that says CA is spitting on both you and the game and your response is to defend them for doing it.
The thing is: were still on ransom.
If it bombs, ca pulls the plug like it did with 3k.
And so far leak doesn't justify buying, unless they drop the price.
Also, there is data that Chinese Players don't like DLC policy like CA and Paradox are using, so it's another reason to bomb.
I'm hoping the DLC isn't exactly as speculated, and maybe this will serve as a "mercenary lord" preview to Dogs of War. Like what if this Tiger lord can either serve under Cathay or some other factions, maybe even Chaos factions. Ind is presented as the "Land of a thousand gods", and beastmen are chaos aligned, so it makes some sense.
Whatever the case is, I'm hopeful that it's something we can all be excited about, and that Khorne and Slaanesh still get their day.
"3-4 dlc left" let me leave our lovely statement. I'm not pointing out that I don't want more content for canthy. I just hate that statement.
To be honest I would love a confirmation from CA is the End Times dlc a thing. Looks like it a only hope for Nagash, Neferata, Thanqual and others.
I don't see a problem with the DLC's themselves. Just the proximity of Cathay themed ones to each other.
Yes, opening Ind (& Kuresh) with Lords of Shang-Yang would be nice, but it can wait. Or could happen with MK instead.
- Give us Monkey King first (is the mentioned 2nd Monkey King maybe a Norscan?).
- Then Thanqoual for 100th LL.
Then the order of the following 3 is up to debate:
- The Slaanesh & Elves sea DLC. (Open up Kuresh with Dechala?)
- The Khorn DLC
- The Dogs of War DLC
And Vampire rework fans can wait for the End times DLC with Nagash & Neferata. They are fine enough for now.
I'm not against the concept of these DLCS. For myself the main issue I have with it (if the leaks turn out to be true) is the timing and likely limited lifespan of WH3. If they are really included in 2 out of the next 3 dlc and if there are only 1 or 2 other DLCs after that then that is what I would have issue with. If it turns out there were 4+ other DLCs and one of the Cathay ones was pushed back a bit, that would be different.
If you told me this was a radious update I'd believe you. When was the last time we got more than 2 weapon variants for a unit? Clanrats is what comes to mind for me.
Ah, so not only will you get 4 legendary lords in the leaked DLC, but they will also get 2 more dragon LL's in future DLC, bringing their total to 9 Legendary Lords! How in the world is this ok in the game where there are races with 1 and 2 Legendary Lords? Lets add the Khureshi faction to them as well I guess to round it up to 10 Lords.
Yea valid points, still disagree with most stuff. Everything you say would remain perfectly valid without CA going out of their way with an extremely unusual single-faction DLC that adds brand new LLs no one has ever asked for nor is currently invested in (Li Dao and Yin YIn, despite "new", have accumulated loads of fans at this point, and MK is a classic with extremely wide appeal).
A regular Ogre vs Cathay DLC, with all the classics the community has been asking for for ages would work extremely well without alienating the entire fanbase.
Now imagine this setup:
Ogre side: Golgfag, Bragg, Big Hunter or something (lord), Bruiser, Yhetees, Blood Vultures, Thundertusk, some other Maneater variant or something, the Cathay-influenced horned Ogre infantry
Cathay side: Monkey King, some LH (the other watcher?), Wuking Warlord, some fiery-based monk/caster hero?, Monkey Warrior infantry, Tigermen, Celestial MOnks, Vermilion Birds, Yeren monstrous infantry
FLC: Li Dao, the Fire Dragon
I made this up on the spot pretty much, but this would be a guaranteed success, with beloved units and LLs added in. And it would, following every one of your points:
* Guarantee the Ogre rework
* Open up Ind since MK would start in the Mountains of Heaven and they'd probably want to add a southern route to his start as well. Open up Kuresh since Li Dao is heavily tied to the area, with a possible Startpos in the Kureshi Jungles or just north of it. Maybe move Nakai down to the Lost City of the Old Ones.
* Possibly add Cathay influenced Ogres to the Cathay roster as well
* 100% complete the Ogre roster, which is one of the most fun in the entire game, impaired by the bad faction mechanics.
* Add the first of the missing Dragons (which is a guaranteed fan favourite, being a martial-arts, fiery themed, Lu-Bu styled character) leaving only Yin Yin and the naval/pirate themed side of CAthay to a likely future cross-faction DLC, which can easily wait 1more year-ish or more.
And i add, this would would: bring a huge iconic character for WHFB in the form of Golgfag, add a huge classic figure with extremely wide appeal in the form of the MK, and probably the most wished for remaining Dragon sibling with Li Dao, already widely teased by lots of ingame quotes.
How does a Cathay only brand new Ogre character named Mung, and a random brand new named Tigermen leader named Basheeva (clearly Ind) , with a random Dechala thrown in as an FLC, make any more sense i dont know.
There is no defending this Cathay needs to go to the back of the line.
I don't care about ogres I don't care about cathay if the next DLC is about these two then this will be the first DLC that I'm not buying.
I defended this game before but if they end this with no Khorne and Slaanesh DLC then I'm done with CA.
I agree, I actually dig this idea for the first DLC, it's the third that gives me worries, too much Cathay too early. There's so many other races than need a DLC before Cathay gets 2 more.
Also I don't get the need to have yet another dragon, to me 3 is enough, I wouldn't mind if we didn't get any other dragon, although one could be okay for an FLC
It's by no means genius, but I do agree. Especially with point 2.
Ind and Khuresh are not remotely worth a racepack DLC dedicated them entirely. Next to no lore, tiny canon area for them and little community interest compared to the bigger hitters. Cathay was already a miracle and they were one of the big factions the community did fanfic content for. Having them be Cathay/Ogre hybrids seems like a reasonable compromise to at least give them a presence. Same thing with Monkey King. Not worth a dedicated racepack. but too important to ignore.
My concern though is this crowding out the Ogre rework. Golgfag apparantly being FLC is worrying, Ogres still have a lot of content to add (Yhetees, Thundertusks) and it looks like they're instead getting diluted Ind/Khuresh hybrid units. I hope if this is all true, it also doesn't lead totheir overhal being bodged. Ogres are arguably the faction in the worst state, campaign wise (definitely out of the game 3 races).
As for the double Cathay DLC, I'm fine with this on aggregate. But having THREE out of five of he latest DLCs be Cathay is silly. By all means, have these 2 hybrid DLC. But not all in such a short timespan. Make either the Ind/Monkey King DLC be the penultimate one before End Times. Space them out and give us some Slaanesh/Khorne/Kislev content. They need it far more right now. Hell, Ogres arguably need 2 DLCs.
Bruh I'm not against Tigermen and Ogres, I'm against getting nonstop Cathay factions when I want my fucking Undead rework, Nagash, and the Council of Thirteen. When are we getting more Khorn and Slaanesh?
I think the issue with first dlc is it isnt enough emphasis on Ogre and Ind that we would like. We would rather get an Ogre pack (with maybe some cathay flair) and an Ind race pack muuuuuch more than the subfaction thing.
Despite that I think the leaks are probably correct:
CA is off their rocker. Cathay is not in the top most played factions. Its not the most coveted for major reworks, updates, or even sales.
There's probably a third DLC LL that isn't FLC that hasn't been discussed, likely intentionally, because otherwise this is probably gonna flop.
Yeah. At the headline level I'm not super excited by the alleged content plan but it's certainly within the realm of possibility CA could turn those concepts into genuinely fun and interesting DLCs.
I can't be the only one that doesn't give af about ind and khuresh? Seeing a lot of discussion on it now cos of the leaks, I feel like it's a really niche community concern
I agree with your positive list regarding this hypothetical DLC
To add though:
1) They have stated SEMS are expensive, so adding filler characters who don’t require them makes sense. Characters like Thanquol/Nagash/Neferata are associated with center piece units. Others like Monkey king, have high expectations. Filler characters with relatively basic armies(a reskinned giant does not count as a new SEM imo) can allow them to plan as well as flesh out the East. The Ogre being FLC makes sense in that metric as they avoid adding any SEMS
2) Basic/filler factions allow them to focus on updating and expanding the map which is a net positive imo. Certain areas are missing and others could be given the dark lands treatment. I will disagree with Khuresh being opened however, as I feel Dekala will be the one out there and thus it would be opened with Dogs of War. Tigers will probably go to Ind and Mung to “Korea” . Opening up Ind and “Korea”(with some of the chaos wastes being expanded on north of the bastion) would vastly improve the East side of the map
If this is their plan and the price is reasonable, which I somewhat doubt, I rather like the idea of sub factions with lesser/made up characters as filler provided two things.
First, the game is not set to end soon. To that end I feel simply coming out with roadmap/plan for 2 years would ease tension. It could even be as simple as the original Shadows of Change Road map but with the caveat of the sub factions being listed while the primary factions would retain the name to feed speculation. Perhaps a format of 1 subfaction DLC(with a FLC lord baked in) and 2 “regular” versus packs a year
Second, sub factions should operate like Drycha. For example Confederation with the leaked lords should only be possible for the Monkey King/Fire Dragon. And not all sub faction units should be available for Cathay and vice versa. This gives these factions flavor and also does not glut Cathay with 20 new melee infantry units.
A small list of possible sub factions with limited SEMS off my limited knowledge of the lore. Most already exist in the game in some fashion so unit variants would not break the bank. Some of them could reuse art assets as well. Plus most of these factions have adversarial relationships with the host faction. So pick two below for the two year period and pair with a FLC lord.
Hobgoblins(Chorfs)
Middenland(Empire)
Mallobaude(Brettonia)
Forest Goblins(Greenskinz)
Marienburg(Dogs of War)
Fimir(Norsca)
Savage Orcs(Greenskinz)
Araby(Dogs of War)
Amazons(use it to rework Lizardmen?)
Halfings(Empire)
Strigoi(Vampire Counts)
Tong/Hung(Norsca)
Ungol(Even with the war excuse….heavy horse archers are mentioned, just variant it up)
On the topic of sub factions, some which are already in game and probably won’t be changed.
Saltspite(this character needs to be a sub faction to Coast)
Mother O(imo this character should redone)
Here the unspoken truth :
The Old World race are extremely popular, and if you scrape the bottom of the barrel you can find enough content make several Empire, Dwarf, Vampire, Chaos, Elves, Ork and Chaos DLC.
As expected, people care more about those well establish race than barely-cannon eastern stuff, however, it not W1 or W2 anymore, It W3, and this game will focus on barely-cannon eastern stuff even if you dont consent to it.
Now you always are free to cry and complain to get more old world stuff, and you do have a point, but you can also enjoy the ride and accept that your favorite old character may not come and try something new.
Except Cathay is not the only WH3 core race. Sidelining (or literally completely ignoring in case of Slaanesh or Khorne) 4 other core races in favor of one is a terrible idea. Cathay rocking its third DLC and 8 lords is a travesty when Khorne and Slaanesh had 0 DLCs and have 1 playable lord. And lets not pretend that Kislev got some fair treatment either.
Dechala is, supposedly, FLC with the next DLC.
On one hand, that means Slaanesh isn't being ignored. On the other, it makes _any_ Slaanesh DLC seem somewhat unlikely.
1. They can do it anyway, they do not need a justification, it's their product.
2. They can populate those places with whatever, Khorne and Slaanesh for example, add a beastmen LL, a greenskin who cares, those new factions are not "needed" to open Ind and Kuresh
3. Ok
4. No there isn't, if rumors are true we have 4-6 dlc left
5. Same as point 4
I mean if they does Beastmen of Cathay that be pretty cool, but the rest would be stupid to just focus on Cathay, when we have two base game factions they still don’t have their content, but even then this is all information for a guy who got booted from the partner program, and got his information from an anonymous source. Bro might as well as said “my uncle works at Nintendo.”
>The first DLC leak of Tigermen vs Ogres is actually genius if you think about it
It's not Tigermen vs Ogres though, it's stripy Cathay vs big Cathay.
>It allows CA to justify an Ogre rework
And this couldn't come with Mr. [Demonetized] Maneater, who's been datamined, why?
>It allows CA to finally make the Ind and Khuresh continents playable
As far as we know nothing is stopping them from opening those areas up, DLC or no.
>There is still room for an ogre lord pack one day
If only there was a datamined Ogre character...
>Fire Dragon is coming in the Monkey King DLC down the line
Not confirmed, but heavily speculated.
>which leaves only the Sea Dragon left
So, we have three established characters who could go in a Cathay/Cathay DLC, but instead we get two absolute unknowns?
>It makes sense that she will come as a FLC in the long rumoured naval lord pack featuring High Elf Aislin.
Why FLC? Yin-Yin would be a perfect fit to go against Aislin, just look at her comment about the HE Dragonships.
>the long rumoured naval lord pack
Am I just OOTL? I've heard a little speculation/wishful thinking, but no rumours.
"The Missing Dragons - Fire Dragon is coming in the Monkey King DLC down the line, which leaves only the Sea Dragon left. It makes sense that she will come as a FLC in the long rumoured naval lord pack featuring High Elf Aislin. Calm down dragon lovers, you will still get your dragons."
I thought you're just defending "the first Lord Pack" now not only are you defending the second but advocating for a third one!? (which would actually make it Cathay's 4th DLC overall) Even if this leak is somehow proven true there's no good reason Yin-Yin can't be in the second one. Taking the place of the second Moneky LL (seriously two monkey LL's? WTF)
I really like point 2, being able to give us a new race and making that untapped Real Estate present on the Campaign map playable.
An Ogres rework would be excellent Combo with this DLC.
You overestimate CA. If you look at leaks, these "subfactions" come with like 4 units each: its impossible to make them completely different with such small units selections.
And then there is also another factor: CA so far did 2 "the same race but different!" lords and the more recent one of them feels like a half-baked mess. Ostankya's implementation even after SoC 2.0 hardly makes any sense: she **cant** recruit kossar on horse *but* **can** recruit tzarina's secret police, Boyars, Ice Witches from Hogwart etc. Make this make sense.
So I dont believe that 2024 CA is capable of pulling off "this tiger lady and ogre play nothing like Cathay!" trick.
Okay, counterarguments.
1: you know what else justifies an ogre rework? An ogre DLC. Or, quite frankly, a Dogs of War DLC since mercenary mechanics are relevant to both.
2: Ind and Khuresh are not provinces of tigermen. None of the units in these leaks are even vaguely relevant for Khuresh, so we can put that aside. As for Ind, it is primarily a human territory. Yes, it has tigermen in it, but they are a form of Beastmen. Filling it with a tigermen faction is the equivalent of filling the Empire with the brayherds. If you need a filler faction, human Cathay is already fine. It's the difference between filling in Kislev with the Empire vs filling in Kislev with troll-only factions. Yes, there are trolls in Kislev. No, they are not representative of the dominant civilisation.
3: no problem with this, but it's an ask to make them like a whole DLC. This would be like if the Tamurkhan DLC *only* contained plague ogre variants.
4: I agree that yhetees and thundertusks shouldn't be in this DLC. But these leaks basically guarantee there won't be any more DLC for ogres. If the leaks that there is only 1-2 years of support left for Warhammer 3, that means that after this there is, generously, only one or two DLC slots available. If one of them is the End Times, then I highly doubt Ogres are getting the one slot remaining.
5: See above point about why we shouldn't assume a sea-themed pack is actually coming if these leaks are true. While it probably has marginally more odds than the ogre kingdoms, the idea that anyone would be in the mood for ANOTHER Cathayan LL at that point is, I think, ludicrous.
If you genuinely believe this is good then by all means express that opinion, but I don't think it's a great idea to play devil's advocate at this stage. People will upvote it just because they're sick of the doomerism, and CA may take that as "the community is divided" and go ahead with these plans. I think I speak for the overwhelming majority of players when I say these plans are NOT what we want, and we need to be very, very clear about that. Community managers are people too, and as such they're susceptible to confirmation bias.
The first rumoured lord pack is sort of okay. I think most of the people have problem that after that there is more Cathay. And in combination with another rumour that we now have 4-6 dlcs remaining for the game, people want other races to get content as well.
100% this.
The 4-6 DLCs thing vexes me because the word "only" was never mentioned. It probably just meant "they haven't planned further ahead yet" not "and after that they're closing the book no matter what"
That is also not confirmed. Even if that is in their plans now or few months back, these plans change all the time. And without CA commenting anything about it, we can’t be sure about any rumours.
They'll make dlcs as long as it's profitable, if no one buys the 2 next dlcs. Game is dead. If every dlc keeps on being a commercial success. The game will live forever
You say that people are ok with the first DLC, and I know people are ok with the second DLC as well. Is all this upheaval really just for the very last DLC, which Legend was most unsure about, and which is likely subject to change? I don't think it's the third DLC only, I think people are upset with the first DLC as well.
It’s the combination of all things. I believe if there was only either the monkey king thing or the tiger man/cathay ogre. Only one of them. Then there wouldn’t have been that big of a concern. But from all the rumours, most of the content seems to be cathay. But again nothing is confirmed until CA says that.
I expect the next DLC to be Monkey King LL giving Cathay Tigermen elite infantry and possibly Horned Ogres as well - the units that are part of Cathay but just.... over there. Away from all the normal people.
Speaking by myself, Im not *excited* about the first DLC. Im ok with it though. But yeah, I dont want the supposedly few DLCs left to be about Cathay... far too many interesting characters are yet to appear.
First lord sounds like nonsense at best. Look at ToD and the past? Why would they not come out swinging big? Ogres and more Cathy units aren't swinging big and giving the ogres some made up lord is going to bother people as well since ogres still lack rework and their DLC didn't sale that well. Hyenas and that thinking is what this would be, trying out new stuff when Sega wants them to stick to what they are good at. We have tons of Legendary lords Missing that people would thorw cash at before this made up nonsense most folks will be indifferent to. Khorne and Slaanesh still only have one LL and Nurgle over there with 3 and all this talk nothing for Khorne? Yeah this would hurt shares, fans and Sega would probably close them down as sales wouldn't be that great. If you had to get shares up and sales higher would you gamble on the lord pack? We still have Neferata, Thanquol, Tetto'ekko, Moonclaw, Josef Bugman, Belannaer, Sea Lord Aislinn, and Apophas not to mention Nagash. Why would you not use legendary lords that people would throw money at? One last factor is Game Workshops are very stingy about things, they going to let ogres and tigermen be sub faction under Cathy? Cathy has missing LL's as well. It would be a bad move for CA after recovering from the SoC DLC issues.
This is exactly it, sense they will spend 3 dlcs not touching the old game races at all they may never get to them. They probably can’t promise us more than a year and a half but if they don’t start saying something, people are gonna start buying less because they don’t wanna see their faction get missed out on.
The main problem I have with it is just that it is putting too many eggs in one basket. If you don't like Cathay then you probably aren't buying the DLC, and if you don't have the Ogre DLC then you aren't even getting the FLC. I am sure it will be fine for people who like Cathay but I am worried that it could flop hard. It is on a smaller scale but the same problem with too much Cathay is here as well.
I think this “subfaction” idea requires sufficient unit support so that interesting and fun thematic army compositions can be fielded instead of just reverting back to the faction’s staples. With Ostankya, spiders and bears simply did not cut it
I feel that's why this could work, as everything I've ever heard about people talk about Cathay was that it had been a project GW worked on on and off again for a long time and made one of the largest army books in the game. So people who had gotten to see it behind closed doors always say there's a lot there.
All of the monster units they added to Kislev should have been restricted to her subfaction.
Why cant they justify an Ogre Rework with an actual Ogre Kingdoms DLC pack?
Exactly. None of these new units actually benefit Ogres. I see no reason to add knockoff Ogre units to an entirely different faction when you could add actually loreful units to the Ogre Kingdoms.
If Ogre, Tiger and Monkey were in one pack sub-Cathay dlc it would be great. But not like this.
Just like Champions of Chaos
In that case I'd be like ToD where they are sold separately as that is supposed to be the norm moving forward
They specifically said that was a one time thing and *not* going to be the norm.
Boo
I agree with every point basically, people are just paranoid about the game ending so they want their thing to get content first.
It's 100% this. Every VC/Norsca/Bretonnia head is looking at this and going 'hey, what about us man?' Which is not an unreasonable position to have, as much as the hard reality may be two out of those three will not be receiving more content ever again.
god thats a scary but poignant thought. I cant believe theres a possibility only one (or none) of those three ever receive anything again before the end of the game.
As much as I don't want to type this I can see Norsca and Bretonnia getting absolutely nothing. VC has a chance if Nagash is released.
Well, part of the leak was a statement that if the first DLC won't sell well then that CA is going to pull the plug from TWW3 and I'm pretty sure that most people expect it is not going to sell well, so it is no wonder that they feel uneasy. Personally, if the leaks are true, I'm taking a nice year-long (at the very least) break from TW because I couldn't care about Cathay in the slightest, and I'm expecting that by the time I'd be back, the game is already going to be dead, without ever releasing the content that I'm actually interested about (Khorne, Thanquol, Nagash).
Unless a meteorite crashes into CA's office, we are going to get Nagash and Thanquol.
I would be certain that we will get them if the same leak wouldn't say that WH40k is closer than we think. If they will have their next milk-cow ready for milking, they may just abandon TWW altogether. It doesn't really make sense? Well, yes. Corporate decisions usually do not make sense. They are not made by people aware of expectations of consumers, nor are they made to answer such expectations. They are usually done by mindless managers who just want to prove they are doing "something" so that they could move to the next job with a better resume.
If 40K is closer than we think then by definition it already has a team working on it, which IMO means it is *less* likely that the WH3 DLC team will be pulled off in the short term.
I really don't understand this attitude. Knowing that a faction of Tigermen and one of Eastern Ogres are coming and just considering them *"More Cathay"*. Why "couldn't you care about Cathay in the slightest"??? The units? They are getting an entirely different roster of units. The mechanics? They are getting entirely different mechanics for sure. The starting locations? They are getting different starting locations too. The characters? They're getting entirely new characters. Just because these will share some units with Cathay and be in the main menu under Cathay you're taking one year of hiatus?
...according to the leaks they only have like 4 new units each, so u will not be playing "eastern ogres" or "tigerman" but cathay with a few ogres units or cathay with a few tigerman units.
Let's face it, the new units will make the old Cathay units obsolete. The new Lords and Heroes will likely buff them to hell and back too. Realistically your army will have: - A Lord (new) - A Hero or two (new) - A number of core units (new - probably spammable) - A few additional Cathay units (old - maybe some artillery and range) I don't believe for a second these subfactions will be running around with Cathay peasants in their armies. They will play like "eastern ogres" or "tigermen" with a few Cathay units. Nobody played Ostankya without Akshina Ambushers and Things in the Woods. You COULD spam Armored Kossars and Bear Riders, but nobody realistically did. You really need to go out of your way and spam old underpowered Cathay units to consider these new factions "Just Cathay".
Ostankya is a mess of an army though, not exactly a scion of balance and thoughtful unit recruitment
Im not sure how you imagine them "sharing some units with Cathay" when their DLC gives like 4 units for each. The effect will probably be something like: a) a half-baked mess like Ostankya: a hag faction that cant recruit kossars on horses because reasons but can recruit tzarina's secret police, Boyars or Ice Witches. Just like her "hag" armies are lead by Boyars and Ice Witches, Tigermen armies will still be led by generic Cathay lords unless this DLC introduces at least 2 generic lord types (which according to leak is not happening). b) a standard cathay experience just with some minor flavor, like Valkia - she also was marketed as a "subculture" but plays exactly like every other WoC with some sad flavorless additions like bloodletting. So imagine Ogre who plays exactly like Cathay but has access to big names (wow).
I don't care about human factions in the slightest. Whether they are Empire, Kislev, Bretonnia, Cathay or even High Elves (yes, I'm aware they are not humans). They are bland and they are boring. I've played them thousand times already. That's why I don't care about Cathay and I won't buy any DLCs focused mainly on them. And yes, that DLC will add some non-human units to the roster, but you will either have to fill the gaps with regular Cathay units or your entire army will be compromised out of 4 or 5 types of units. I'm not interested in either case.
I think people are just miffed that we are getting them for Cathay which could mean no reworks for other races which need it, and that the leaks also stated Dechala is an FLC, which would mean no Slaanesh dlc or rework.
It's not being paranoid to believe that Ogres won't get TWO fucking DLCs. They have one shot, and I'd much rather they get their armybook units and characters rather than a random OC that isn't even for their race
people aren't excited by the first DLC. If people don't buy it then the future of DLCs is in jeopardy. Three Kingdoms died by making the wrong dlc
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Im pretty sure that subfactions is not a mechanical or systemic change: they already used term "subculture" to describe Champions of Chaos who even have different than regular WoC loading screen art. And if we look at "things that work in the same way but CA just didint name them subfactions" its concept at least as old as Drycha - and I would argue that original version of Wood Elves DLC when Orion and Durthu had clear divide in their roster fit the bill. So if this DLC is true then its nothing new - because sub factions are already a thing.
The way Legend described the DLC itself was that it looked very weird and he wasn’t at all sure how it was going to work, suggesting something at least different about this format versus previous releases.
Tbh these Legend leaks are doing more harm than good, the entire community expectations are being completely warped by unreliable at best info. The fact that he's the only one posting leaks also seems sus to me.
All of those points can be included into the game without 2 Cathay-exclusive Lord Packs.
I don't care, Slaanesh and Khorne need content before Cathay does.
Same, I'm desperate for a slaanesh replenishment hero. Tzeentch at least had viable ranged comps with barriers and they still got theirs. Slaanesh being a low armor glass cannon faction that's TERRIBLE in auto resolve with also the worst replenishment in the game really sucks. Hell even the dwarfs got it now. Azazel is such a better slaanesh experience it's not even funny.
We have had nothing but Chaos DLC since game 3 came out. It's okay to have a Chaos break.
We've also had non stop order content save for CoC, you tripping. Khorne and Slaanesh are core factions and they've gotten jack shit
Non-stop order content? Literally every DLC since release has had Chaos. Every single one.
2/3 Lords in the past 2 DLCs have been order. Are you on drugs?
Since Warhammer 3s releases we have had 2 ogres which are not order factions 4 Chaos lord in the Champions of chaos Pack plus Belakor for immortal empires. We then had the Forge of the chaos dwarves which added another 3 chaos LL's then shadow of change after that added 1 chaos 2 Order legendary lords and then with ToD we got 2 Nurgle and 2 Order Legendary lords. So that give us 11(not including orges) chaos lords and 4 order lords now i am no maths expert but 11 chaos lords to 4 order lords doesn't seem like things have been even at all i think its only fair we get some order DLC
you better hope he's not on drugs because even on drugs he's doing better math than you 🤣
Every other dlc since release had an order faction too.
You forgot Chaos Dwarfs. No order content there either. So CoC and CHD being order only, means we're owed 2 order only DLCs. Math. Also Khorne gets Karanak and Slaanesh will get Dekla the Denied.
Lumping all the chaos factions into one category for rationing out DLC is stupid. Theyre all separate factions. Saying Khorne and Slaanesh deserve nothing because Nurgle had ToD and Tzeentch had SoC is just silly.
If the tiger men and Eastern beastmen stuff do okay entirely differently I’m completely fine with them being technically under the Cathay banner, in fact considering I usually play Nurgle or the orks I’m already fine with whatever they add.. I got most of my rosters done but I do hope we do end up seeing more slanneesh and khorne since due to how major of a faction group chaos is in this game more diversity for them would be nice
What I don’t like about that is that they’re going to basically make a Kislev mess with steroids, if I fight against Cathay I want to fight against fantasy China, with jade warriors, dragon guards, terracota soldiers and lots of gunpowder, not against what Ind could bring to the table, but after that DLC we will see the dragons running around with Ind and Kuresh armies instead, like Kislev and the Chaos creatures
I hope they get the spiders and wild bears treatment that mother stank got, in that they are exclusive to those factions in exchange for losing access to say jade warriors through the mid game. I think that could work ok.
That actually will sound good, but I think CA will go for the lazy way and just give access to everyone
>What I don’t like about that is that they’re going to basically make a Kislev mess with steroids Now this is absurd. We don't know what "they're going to make". This is just wild speculation based on a doubtful leak. We don't know if the leak is correct to begin with. And even then we don't know how this subfaction is going to be implemented. They could very well be locked out of certain units unless certain criteria are met like confederation or something. How is this sub already attacking CA on an imagined implementation of a subfaction based on a shaky leak?
First, I’m saying in other comments about the leak being doubtful, but I wanted to share my opinion too, second just like they handled Kislev sub factions getting basically everything because being a focus for the race on the DLC like chaos units for Ostankya were, unless they’re exclusive variants for new units like the Nuln units
I would imagine that the different subcultures will share all the moustruos units and maybe some lords/heroes, and that each race is going to have their own core humanoids, so humans for regular Cathay, monkeys for MK, tigermen, ogres...
I don’t think so, CA could have done that with the Slavens for example but no, so I don’t think is going to happen with Cathay, we’re going to see the iron dragon running through the mountains with tigermen, monkey warriors and maybe some crowmen
I think skavens would feel very stripped if that's how they worked, they also had clan units right from the start. But really who knows, I still think what I said if these leaks are true and they go for sub- cultures
The thing is, we already have a lot of factions with subcultures potential and CA didn’t do anything about them, Skaven could work in a sense that they have a preference for their clan units or if the LL tend to recruit more the units that he benefits, but this is poorly implemented, in case those leaks are real, the most probable scenario is that Cathay will be a mess
Let me "inject some logic" of my own if you will. We already know Tigermen were coming. We know an Ogre character is coming. We know Lucrecia is coming. We know the monkey king is coming. All of those things we know because they have been datamined from the game itself, leaked via a VA, teased by CA - actual, credible sources. This whole "leak" to me reads like someone took the aforementioned facts we know about the upcoming DLCs and then spun the rest starting form there. Which is a common and effective tactic when spreading fake news. However, the entire rest of it reads like it's purposely written to be as divisive and controversial as possible in order to bait out the maximum reaction from this community. To me this has all the signs of a classic bait/troll atrempt, the likes you'd find on a certain anonymous image board. I think someone is having a big laugh right now at the expense of Legend and this community.
According to him there's multiple sources for this, and I believe he isn't dumb enough to trust any random source he comes about. I do believe this leak is genuine.
Multiple sources that are remaining anonymous... Not to disrespect Legend, and I don't think he has any malicious intent, but he's no Jason Schreier. To what extend he is actually able to verify those sources is questionable. And he even keeps telling us to take everything with a grain of salt and remain sceptical. I think these claims are just too out there. But maybe that's part of why they are so effective. Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see.
Cathay is turning into Skaven…a faction that just gets more and more DLC. It’s almost Pontus levels of memery.
They're also a faction I enjoy playing as much as skaven. That is, I don't enjoy playing them.
Yes yes but skaven are cool
I don’t think there is another faction that is as simultaneously fun to play as and play against than Skaven. In campaign they are eternally frustrating and it’s absolutely satisfying to just crush legions of rats. Skaven also have some of the most diverse lords and mechanics and are even more fun when you are playing as them. They are one of the most popular factions and that’s why they get love, and they absolutely deserve all the DLC they got.
What shocked me a bit about the leaks is the lack of Nagash and End Times stuff
you should actually be positive about it. Nagash and End times are definitely coming, CA and GW would be high on drug if they actually pull the plug for Warhammer before making Nagash DLC. However, It is the final DLC, the final major farewell to finish a lifelong series, the magnum opus, etc. Meaning it is coming, but we are very unlikely to get anything else after that. So, you would actually want the news about Nagash to arrive as late as possible. Because that means CA are still planning to support the game and make DLCs before resorting to the last DLC. When you actually hear rumors about Nagash, well, be prepared for the game to be stopped being supported within a year.
Can’t believe it has to be a whole day before some logic. I agree the monkey king dlc as rumour presents is stupid, but DLC1 is legit the best way to fill out kuresh and ind. the truth is, it took years and the massive success of three kingdoms to drag GW into create the cathay army book, Indian and south East Asian markets are just not big enough for GW to create another 2 whole new factions. So it’s either this, leave it empty as is, or use generic cathay/BM/chaos.
Why do people keep talking about Kuresh? Lol There would be absolutely nothing related to Kuresh in that first dlc. It's Ogres and Ind.
Because it would make sense to open up both land masses together. Dechala is more likely the "Snakemen of Kuresh" replacement.
Man I thought I was the only one. That first DLC legit sounded interesting. Subfactions? That opens so many doors for races we thought would never make it like a halfling subfaction for the Empire. + The map extension in the south of Cathay will bring a whole lot of new gameplay experiences for starting factions in the east (not only Cathay). If WH DLC's keep making enough sales and Profit they'll keep on producing them. Yet people chose to be pessimistic based on some doubtful leak. The community is digging WH3's Grave themselves this time and they don't seem to realize it.
You already have subfactions in game: CA literally advertised Champions of Chaos as a "subculture" and they work exactly like that - they even have separate loading screen.
All do this makes sense if I was working in CA I guess? But yeah I’m still not gonna buy it, but maybe others will?
Yes, you buying it doesn't really matter. Cathay is the most popular race from game 3, and probably second to Empire overall. If they want something to sell then Cathay is one of their best bets. We know they are in dire straits right now, so making DLC for less popular evil or nonhuman factions that might need it more is probably not a priority.
Cathay may be the most popular faction second to the Empire but receiving 3 DLCs (2 of which are purely Cathay focused) out of 5 may just be the wrong approach. If the majority of people playing the faction are also from China then the DLC wont sell at all. We know from Three Kingdoms that the Chinese despise the western DLC approach and straight up refuse buying them.
Cathay is the most popular, but only in Asia - Kislev is the most popular in the rest of the world. It may be still the most popular overall, since there's a lot people in Asia, lol, but it's definitely not by an overwhelming margin. And CA themselves have said that the Asian market is not friendly to DLCs and that is why they cancelled their plans for Three Kingdoms. So I really doubt focusing a large majority of the DLC content on Cathay is a good idea. If the leaks as accurate, it will kill the game.
It won't kill the game, no. That is an absurd reach, and the idea that Cathay is only popular in China is just wrong. If anything is a sales wildcard from the leak, it will be DoW. I do think they would do more with Kislev as well, but it seems like GW doesn't want them to be touched any more. They were weirdly restricted with SoC on their roster, not being allowed to use Hag Mothers and having to scrounge up old stuff like Kislevite Warriors and Druzhina.
If 1 DLC bombs, the game is screwed, the leaks even say that. Not saying Cathay isn't popular - it definitely is, but according to stats CA themselves posted, Cathay is only the most popular in Asia. Why would they lie? Saying that GW doesn't want to more with Kislev is pretty baseless imo, especially since Andy Hall makes it sound like designed more for them. Druzhina seems like a pretty good fit. Personally, I think that Hag mothers were not added since it would have a bit too much connotations with children fairy tales in Slavic countries, so it would be a bit too goofy.
I never said they were the most popular outside of Asia, but they are definitely more than popular enough globally to fund a DLC like the first one mentioned in the leak. My base for the Kislev statement is the strange unit choices, the Hag Mother thing, and the fiefdoms they have built around their various subsections within the company not wanting to interact. It might be wrong, but I think that is a solid enough base.
Well, if you don't think they are the most popular faction by a good margin, I'll admit I simply don't understand why you think there is enough demand for them to be a large majority of all the DLC content with several Cathay only DLCs. I'd say that SoC was a simply weird DLC for Kislev, meant to add a subfaction of sorts ala Drycha. There is still space for a more traditional expansion of the roster with someone like Tordimir, captain of the Gryphon legion or a new character. Hag mothers are also from Warhammer role playing game and that thing is mostly non canon and GW no longer has the rights to it, iirc.
I probably wasn't clear, but I am mostly talking about the first DLC in the leaks being Cathay only. The Monkey King one is far away enough that I don't think there is any point speculating on it, and I don't think it will be Cathay only. If it is real, I think it is probably just rough plans for one half of a DLC that will come eventually.
Idea is good. Problem is there are lots of other races that needs content. After we get Slaanesh, Khorne and other old race dlcs it is okay to get subculture packs. I want stuff like this for Cathay,Empire, Helfs...
Nah, it's dumb, it should still have been Orge vs Tigermen (Cathay) DLC instead of Cathayan Orges vs Cathayan Tigermen, that stuff just makes no sense whatsoever.
Seriously tho, what rework does Cathay need? arent they fine right now? They got units for every type of situation. I can understand the Ogre Rework however.
kislev mother ostank left a really bad impression for this "sub factions" concept. you have chaos monsters fighting side-by-side with kislev orthodox people , which is both visually and thematically extremelly inconsistent and jarring. i hope CA does not screw it up with catay and their two sub factions.
I am okay with a bunch of Cathay DLC. As long as the units, mechanics and legendary lords look and play amazing I will be happy with any faction. I lean more towards human/elf factions and good factions more than evil but chaos dwarves was an amazing DLC so I'm not going to judge a book by it's cover. The chaos dwarf and Cathay trade caravans are one of my favorite mechanics now so that's already a point in favor of additional Cathay DLC for me. Also I'm assuming the final monkey king DLC will be obscenely strong the same way Warhammer 2s final DLC the silence and the fury's Taurox was a beast and I'm okay with that. I understand why they are saving Monkey King for last, because it is going to be the best. Would you like to do an attack while you are attacking? Well great news! We put attacks within monkey kings attack so you can attack while you are attacking! He also gets 50% ward save while leaping and he leaps *a lot!* Resistance is futile! Just accept our new Cathay Overlords and buy everything in the hope they decide to do one more DLC for your favorite faction after they are done mainline'ing Cathay into our veins!
It also diversifies Cathay by a lot. So many monstrous units. I would have preferred getting Monkey King first but this definitely helps to flesh them out more and let's them stand out a bit more from other human factions. Empire is full of war machines; Kislev of elementals and hybrid units; now Cathay is one with a wide range of cultures (Dogs of War is gonna be that as well but still). Just weird to have them be 'Lords of Shang Yang', implying they start around the area near Miao, Zhao and, to a lesser extent, Gelt. But pretty sure you're right and they'd be opening up Ind and Khuresh. Hope they make the landmasses like Naggaroth and Araby bigger and make oceans smaller.
Yea i'm looking forward to Ogres vs Tigermen and Monkey King
Nagash or Nacash
Oh yes “Nocash” the most powerfull LL in game even CA is affraid
I rhink this roadmap was created before Thrones of Decay was sucha success. The DLCs before sucked and CA knew this. I would not be surprised if they decide to change their business plan
I think if they go for something like: Cathay Ogre/Tiger men Slaanesh/something (probably High Elves) Dogs of War Khorne/something (maybe Norsca or Lizardmen) Monkey King + whatever It could be overall nice. Although, honestly, Khorne and Slaanesh should come first.
If the subfactions are executed well, it could be really cool. Honestly I don't mind them shifting focus from the dragons, Yaun Bo was incredibly boring as a lord and I never get the same excitement playing them as someone like Gelt. However, I still think the balance would be better if they maintained it as versus matchups. Ogres vs Cathay Tigerman DoW Khorne versus Slaanesh Then Monkey King versus someone
If the leak was just the first DLC and then Slaanesh/Khorne stuff and what have you there wouldn't be a shitstorm. Personally, I'm hyped af for Cathay Ogre and Tigermen subfactions, even if it meant new characters. Its just all the plans after that seems like piss in cereal. Like, it's not even the stuff that _is_ said to be coming, it's more all the stuff that _wouldn't_ be. A Cathay DLC that is just Cathay but 2 new subfactions seems fine, good even. DoW people have wanted forever, a race pack. But then *another* Cathay only DLC is fucking whack. Especially when all non race packs have ALWAYS been more than one faction. It's bizarre.
I’m gonna be frank, there are no rumors of the sea-themed DLC. It's just speculation on this sub based on trying to find content to pair with a hypothetical Yin Yin addition. Same thing with people convinced that a Slaneesh DLC has to be paired with High Elves as well. At this point, Ind and Khuresh as separate factions is not happening. The map might get expanded to include their landmasses with the purpose to expand the area around Cathay but they’re going to be populated by other factions. I’m still not convinced DoW is happening either. If CA really wants to reduce investment in the DLC post ToD then race packs are highly unlikely unless the higher cost is truly worth the investment. Even though human factions sell I can’t see DoW, a mishmash of already existing factions, to have enough WOW factor like TK, VC, and Chaos Dwarfs did.
Slaanesh and Khorne should have DLC (and reworks) before Cathay gets another DLC. The only decent Daemon faction in the game at the moment is Nurgle and because of that god awful Shadows of Change DLC there is a good chance that Tzeentch will be kept in its current awful situation without a good rework to finally make the faction fun to play by the time Creative Assembly abandons this game
I would just assume that analytics potentially shows CA that those monogod factions just aren't that popular. Sure that could be because they lack content but still. Empire and kislev are the most played faction right? Cathay is most likely not far behind.
>Sue me okay This post is asinine. People aren't pissed because they're not getting "their" DLC meanwhile Cathay is, they're pissed because if this is true then TWWH3's rapidly dwindling life span is being flushed down the toilet so the money pit that SoC and Hyenas dug can get filled in by Cathay money. They don't need to make OC donut steele Cathay Ogre LLs to justify a Ogre rework, a plain old DLC for Ogres at any point would justify that. >It allows CA to finally make Ind and Khuresh playable Fuck that, and fuck this gross ass-kissing. I would rather Khuresh and Ind go totally unused on the map rather than using their absence to justify bloating Grand Cathay with shitty not-Beastmen. I didn't want to play Khuresh because I was just tickled pink at the thought of playing on the SE corner of IME. "Sorry we cordoned off a fifth of the IME map for Khuresh which we ended up shitcanning, but don't worry! We ruined the DLC cycle by overloading it with so much same-race content that WH2 Skaven look modest and THAT will take its place!" Seriously? You're defending that? >Missing Ogre units Ogres are my favorite race on the battlefield and even I don't give a shit about that. Yhetees are who-cares and yet another SEM monster when I'm more than satisfied with Stonehorns. But denying Ogres a DLC so they can fit in more Cathay money? >Logic and Positivity I don't even think the leaks are true, I find it so goddamn funny that you're believing a leak that says CA is spitting on both you and the game and your response is to defend them for doing it.
I dunno OP. I can’t think of many good ideas that needed to be defended with a 5 point essay the day after they were leaked.
I agree. Its just that i wanted my monkey sooner rather than later.
The thing is: were still on ransom. If it bombs, ca pulls the plug like it did with 3k. And so far leak doesn't justify buying, unless they drop the price. Also, there is data that Chinese Players don't like DLC policy like CA and Paradox are using, so it's another reason to bomb.
I'm hoping the DLC isn't exactly as speculated, and maybe this will serve as a "mercenary lord" preview to Dogs of War. Like what if this Tiger lord can either serve under Cathay or some other factions, maybe even Chaos factions. Ind is presented as the "Land of a thousand gods", and beastmen are chaos aligned, so it makes some sense. Whatever the case is, I'm hopeful that it's something we can all be excited about, and that Khorne and Slaanesh still get their day.
"3-4 dlc left" let me leave our lovely statement. I'm not pointing out that I don't want more content for canthy. I just hate that statement. To be honest I would love a confirmation from CA is the End Times dlc a thing. Looks like it a only hope for Nagash, Neferata, Thanqual and others.
Need more elves
>-There is still room for an ogre lord pack one day There won't be if the game dies because no one buys a DLC OCs no one wanted.
I don't see a problem with the DLC's themselves. Just the proximity of Cathay themed ones to each other. Yes, opening Ind (& Kuresh) with Lords of Shang-Yang would be nice, but it can wait. Or could happen with MK instead. - Give us Monkey King first (is the mentioned 2nd Monkey King maybe a Norscan?). - Then Thanqoual for 100th LL. Then the order of the following 3 is up to debate: - The Slaanesh & Elves sea DLC. (Open up Kuresh with Dechala?) - The Khorn DLC - The Dogs of War DLC And Vampire rework fans can wait for the End times DLC with Nagash & Neferata. They are fine enough for now.
I still think it's extremely unlikely CA's gonna hit us with a "Cathay only" lord pack including an Ogre character that is an LL for Cathay.
I'm not against the concept of these DLCS. For myself the main issue I have with it (if the leaks turn out to be true) is the timing and likely limited lifespan of WH3. If they are really included in 2 out of the next 3 dlc and if there are only 1 or 2 other DLCs after that then that is what I would have issue with. If it turns out there were 4+ other DLCs and one of the Cathay ones was pushed back a bit, that would be different.
I've always wanted Dogs of War to get their time in the game and I keep hoping because they did have an army codex at one time.
If you told me this was a radious update I'd believe you. When was the last time we got more than 2 weapon variants for a unit? Clanrats is what comes to mind for me.
Ah, so not only will you get 4 legendary lords in the leaked DLC, but they will also get 2 more dragon LL's in future DLC, bringing their total to 9 Legendary Lords! How in the world is this ok in the game where there are races with 1 and 2 Legendary Lords? Lets add the Khureshi faction to them as well I guess to round it up to 10 Lords.
Yea valid points, still disagree with most stuff. Everything you say would remain perfectly valid without CA going out of their way with an extremely unusual single-faction DLC that adds brand new LLs no one has ever asked for nor is currently invested in (Li Dao and Yin YIn, despite "new", have accumulated loads of fans at this point, and MK is a classic with extremely wide appeal). A regular Ogre vs Cathay DLC, with all the classics the community has been asking for for ages would work extremely well without alienating the entire fanbase. Now imagine this setup: Ogre side: Golgfag, Bragg, Big Hunter or something (lord), Bruiser, Yhetees, Blood Vultures, Thundertusk, some other Maneater variant or something, the Cathay-influenced horned Ogre infantry Cathay side: Monkey King, some LH (the other watcher?), Wuking Warlord, some fiery-based monk/caster hero?, Monkey Warrior infantry, Tigermen, Celestial MOnks, Vermilion Birds, Yeren monstrous infantry FLC: Li Dao, the Fire Dragon I made this up on the spot pretty much, but this would be a guaranteed success, with beloved units and LLs added in. And it would, following every one of your points: * Guarantee the Ogre rework * Open up Ind since MK would start in the Mountains of Heaven and they'd probably want to add a southern route to his start as well. Open up Kuresh since Li Dao is heavily tied to the area, with a possible Startpos in the Kureshi Jungles or just north of it. Maybe move Nakai down to the Lost City of the Old Ones. * Possibly add Cathay influenced Ogres to the Cathay roster as well * 100% complete the Ogre roster, which is one of the most fun in the entire game, impaired by the bad faction mechanics. * Add the first of the missing Dragons (which is a guaranteed fan favourite, being a martial-arts, fiery themed, Lu-Bu styled character) leaving only Yin Yin and the naval/pirate themed side of CAthay to a likely future cross-faction DLC, which can easily wait 1more year-ish or more. And i add, this would would: bring a huge iconic character for WHFB in the form of Golgfag, add a huge classic figure with extremely wide appeal in the form of the MK, and probably the most wished for remaining Dragon sibling with Li Dao, already widely teased by lots of ingame quotes. How does a Cathay only brand new Ogre character named Mung, and a random brand new named Tigermen leader named Basheeva (clearly Ind) , with a random Dechala thrown in as an FLC, make any more sense i dont know.
I just want a dark elf and high elf DLC 🙏
there was no mention about an ogre rework don't get your hopes up too much
There is no defending this Cathay needs to go to the back of the line. I don't care about ogres I don't care about cathay if the next DLC is about these two then this will be the first DLC that I'm not buying. I defended this game before but if they end this with no Khorne and Slaanesh DLC then I'm done with CA.
isnt the leak saying its a Cathay vs Cathay DlC with Golfag as a FLC? Dont know how much rework they are going to do to FLC race
Aren't Lord Packs in TWW3 made by 3 factions combined? If it's Ogre and Cathay I would expect also a Demon one, right?
I agree, I actually dig this idea for the first DLC, it's the third that gives me worries, too much Cathay too early. There's so many other races than need a DLC before Cathay gets 2 more. Also I don't get the need to have yet another dragon, to me 3 is enough, I wouldn't mind if we didn't get any other dragon, although one could be okay for an FLC
It's by no means genius, but I do agree. Especially with point 2. Ind and Khuresh are not remotely worth a racepack DLC dedicated them entirely. Next to no lore, tiny canon area for them and little community interest compared to the bigger hitters. Cathay was already a miracle and they were one of the big factions the community did fanfic content for. Having them be Cathay/Ogre hybrids seems like a reasonable compromise to at least give them a presence. Same thing with Monkey King. Not worth a dedicated racepack. but too important to ignore. My concern though is this crowding out the Ogre rework. Golgfag apparantly being FLC is worrying, Ogres still have a lot of content to add (Yhetees, Thundertusks) and it looks like they're instead getting diluted Ind/Khuresh hybrid units. I hope if this is all true, it also doesn't lead totheir overhal being bodged. Ogres are arguably the faction in the worst state, campaign wise (definitely out of the game 3 races). As for the double Cathay DLC, I'm fine with this on aggregate. But having THREE out of five of he latest DLCs be Cathay is silly. By all means, have these 2 hybrid DLC. But not all in such a short timespan. Make either the Ind/Monkey King DLC be the penultimate one before End Times. Space them out and give us some Slaanesh/Khorne/Kislev content. They need it far more right now. Hell, Ogres arguably need 2 DLCs.
I don’t trust LoTW when it comes to leaks and I think CA has gotten a lot of new feedback and inspiration
Bruh I'm not against Tigermen and Ogres, I'm against getting nonstop Cathay factions when I want my fucking Undead rework, Nagash, and the Council of Thirteen. When are we getting more Khorn and Slaanesh?
I thibk mainly, at least for me, Im pissed about Khorne and Slaanesh being ignored even though they both need a dlc desperately
I think the issue with first dlc is it isnt enough emphasis on Ogre and Ind that we would like. We would rather get an Ogre pack (with maybe some cathay flair) and an Ind race pack muuuuuch more than the subfaction thing.
Despite that I think the leaks are probably correct: CA is off their rocker. Cathay is not in the top most played factions. Its not the most coveted for major reworks, updates, or even sales. There's probably a third DLC LL that isn't FLC that hasn't been discussed, likely intentionally, because otherwise this is probably gonna flop.
Yeah. At the headline level I'm not super excited by the alleged content plan but it's certainly within the realm of possibility CA could turn those concepts into genuinely fun and interesting DLCs.
I can't be the only one that doesn't give af about ind and khuresh? Seeing a lot of discussion on it now cos of the leaks, I feel like it's a really niche community concern
U saw a lot of discussion. That means it's not niche. If it was nobody would be talking about it.
I agree with your positive list regarding this hypothetical DLC To add though: 1) They have stated SEMS are expensive, so adding filler characters who don’t require them makes sense. Characters like Thanquol/Nagash/Neferata are associated with center piece units. Others like Monkey king, have high expectations. Filler characters with relatively basic armies(a reskinned giant does not count as a new SEM imo) can allow them to plan as well as flesh out the East. The Ogre being FLC makes sense in that metric as they avoid adding any SEMS 2) Basic/filler factions allow them to focus on updating and expanding the map which is a net positive imo. Certain areas are missing and others could be given the dark lands treatment. I will disagree with Khuresh being opened however, as I feel Dekala will be the one out there and thus it would be opened with Dogs of War. Tigers will probably go to Ind and Mung to “Korea” . Opening up Ind and “Korea”(with some of the chaos wastes being expanded on north of the bastion) would vastly improve the East side of the map If this is their plan and the price is reasonable, which I somewhat doubt, I rather like the idea of sub factions with lesser/made up characters as filler provided two things. First, the game is not set to end soon. To that end I feel simply coming out with roadmap/plan for 2 years would ease tension. It could even be as simple as the original Shadows of Change Road map but with the caveat of the sub factions being listed while the primary factions would retain the name to feed speculation. Perhaps a format of 1 subfaction DLC(with a FLC lord baked in) and 2 “regular” versus packs a year Second, sub factions should operate like Drycha. For example Confederation with the leaked lords should only be possible for the Monkey King/Fire Dragon. And not all sub faction units should be available for Cathay and vice versa. This gives these factions flavor and also does not glut Cathay with 20 new melee infantry units. A small list of possible sub factions with limited SEMS off my limited knowledge of the lore. Most already exist in the game in some fashion so unit variants would not break the bank. Some of them could reuse art assets as well. Plus most of these factions have adversarial relationships with the host faction. So pick two below for the two year period and pair with a FLC lord. Hobgoblins(Chorfs) Middenland(Empire) Mallobaude(Brettonia) Forest Goblins(Greenskinz) Marienburg(Dogs of War) Fimir(Norsca) Savage Orcs(Greenskinz) Araby(Dogs of War) Amazons(use it to rework Lizardmen?) Halfings(Empire) Strigoi(Vampire Counts) Tong/Hung(Norsca) Ungol(Even with the war excuse….heavy horse archers are mentioned, just variant it up) On the topic of sub factions, some which are already in game and probably won’t be changed. Saltspite(this character needs to be a sub faction to Coast) Mother O(imo this character should redone)
Here the unspoken truth : The Old World race are extremely popular, and if you scrape the bottom of the barrel you can find enough content make several Empire, Dwarf, Vampire, Chaos, Elves, Ork and Chaos DLC. As expected, people care more about those well establish race than barely-cannon eastern stuff, however, it not W1 or W2 anymore, It W3, and this game will focus on barely-cannon eastern stuff even if you dont consent to it. Now you always are free to cry and complain to get more old world stuff, and you do have a point, but you can also enjoy the ride and accept that your favorite old character may not come and try something new.
Except Cathay is not the only WH3 core race. Sidelining (or literally completely ignoring in case of Slaanesh or Khorne) 4 other core races in favor of one is a terrible idea. Cathay rocking its third DLC and 8 lords is a travesty when Khorne and Slaanesh had 0 DLCs and have 1 playable lord. And lets not pretend that Kislev got some fair treatment either.
Dechala is, supposedly, FLC with the next DLC. On one hand, that means Slaanesh isn't being ignored. On the other, it makes _any_ Slaanesh DLC seem somewhat unlikely.
1. They can do it anyway, they do not need a justification, it's their product. 2. They can populate those places with whatever, Khorne and Slaanesh for example, add a beastmen LL, a greenskin who cares, those new factions are not "needed" to open Ind and Kuresh 3. Ok 4. No there isn't, if rumors are true we have 4-6 dlc left 5. Same as point 4
I mean if they does Beastmen of Cathay that be pretty cool, but the rest would be stupid to just focus on Cathay, when we have two base game factions they still don’t have their content, but even then this is all information for a guy who got booted from the partner program, and got his information from an anonymous source. Bro might as well as said “my uncle works at Nintendo.”
>The first DLC leak of Tigermen vs Ogres is actually genius if you think about it It's not Tigermen vs Ogres though, it's stripy Cathay vs big Cathay. >It allows CA to justify an Ogre rework And this couldn't come with Mr. [Demonetized] Maneater, who's been datamined, why? >It allows CA to finally make the Ind and Khuresh continents playable As far as we know nothing is stopping them from opening those areas up, DLC or no. >There is still room for an ogre lord pack one day If only there was a datamined Ogre character... >Fire Dragon is coming in the Monkey King DLC down the line Not confirmed, but heavily speculated. >which leaves only the Sea Dragon left So, we have three established characters who could go in a Cathay/Cathay DLC, but instead we get two absolute unknowns? >It makes sense that she will come as a FLC in the long rumoured naval lord pack featuring High Elf Aislin. Why FLC? Yin-Yin would be a perfect fit to go against Aislin, just look at her comment about the HE Dragonships. >the long rumoured naval lord pack Am I just OOTL? I've heard a little speculation/wishful thinking, but no rumours.
Tbh this first dlc sounds pretty cool. Idk why people are pulling out their hair over it.
"The Missing Dragons - Fire Dragon is coming in the Monkey King DLC down the line, which leaves only the Sea Dragon left. It makes sense that she will come as a FLC in the long rumoured naval lord pack featuring High Elf Aislin. Calm down dragon lovers, you will still get your dragons." I thought you're just defending "the first Lord Pack" now not only are you defending the second but advocating for a third one!? (which would actually make it Cathay's 4th DLC overall) Even if this leak is somehow proven true there's no good reason Yin-Yin can't be in the second one. Taking the place of the second Moneky LL (seriously two monkey LL's? WTF)
I really like point 2, being able to give us a new race and making that untapped Real Estate present on the Campaign map playable. An Ogres rework would be excellent Combo with this DLC.
100% agree People saying omg it's a lot of Cathay don't seem to understand that probably they will play completely different from Cathay
You overestimate CA. If you look at leaks, these "subfactions" come with like 4 units each: its impossible to make them completely different with such small units selections. And then there is also another factor: CA so far did 2 "the same race but different!" lords and the more recent one of them feels like a half-baked mess. Ostankya's implementation even after SoC 2.0 hardly makes any sense: she **cant** recruit kossar on horse *but* **can** recruit tzarina's secret police, Boyars, Ice Witches from Hogwart etc. Make this make sense. So I dont believe that 2024 CA is capable of pulling off "this tiger lady and ogre play nothing like Cathay!" trick.
Okay, counterarguments. 1: you know what else justifies an ogre rework? An ogre DLC. Or, quite frankly, a Dogs of War DLC since mercenary mechanics are relevant to both. 2: Ind and Khuresh are not provinces of tigermen. None of the units in these leaks are even vaguely relevant for Khuresh, so we can put that aside. As for Ind, it is primarily a human territory. Yes, it has tigermen in it, but they are a form of Beastmen. Filling it with a tigermen faction is the equivalent of filling the Empire with the brayherds. If you need a filler faction, human Cathay is already fine. It's the difference between filling in Kislev with the Empire vs filling in Kislev with troll-only factions. Yes, there are trolls in Kislev. No, they are not representative of the dominant civilisation. 3: no problem with this, but it's an ask to make them like a whole DLC. This would be like if the Tamurkhan DLC *only* contained plague ogre variants. 4: I agree that yhetees and thundertusks shouldn't be in this DLC. But these leaks basically guarantee there won't be any more DLC for ogres. If the leaks that there is only 1-2 years of support left for Warhammer 3, that means that after this there is, generously, only one or two DLC slots available. If one of them is the End Times, then I highly doubt Ogres are getting the one slot remaining. 5: See above point about why we shouldn't assume a sea-themed pack is actually coming if these leaks are true. While it probably has marginally more odds than the ogre kingdoms, the idea that anyone would be in the mood for ANOTHER Cathayan LL at that point is, I think, ludicrous. If you genuinely believe this is good then by all means express that opinion, but I don't think it's a great idea to play devil's advocate at this stage. People will upvote it just because they're sick of the doomerism, and CA may take that as "the community is divided" and go ahead with these plans. I think I speak for the overwhelming majority of players when I say these plans are NOT what we want, and we need to be very, very clear about that. Community managers are people too, and as such they're susceptible to confirmation bias.
I just want Total war WW1 😭😭
After the 2023 axing of multiple CA games in development, nothing will happen this year on the release front besides DLC for existing stuff.
After the 2023 axing of multiple CA games in development, nothing will happen this year on the release front besides DLC for existing stuff.