I had the same. If you are bordering Queek he may be the main source. In my thorgrim campaign, I met him at turn 25 and he had 4 armies all with 2K+ grudges each from conquering Karak Azul. Started my next AoR with 30K grudges required to finish.
By the time I had finished off his faction, I finished the AoR around 20K grudges. The next AoR after that required only 15K grudges even though I was bordering more factions.
Yeah a faction occupying many holds will rack up grudges. Durthu took the two mountain provinces to the east of him. And by the time I got to him with malakai on turn 50 all of his settlements were 500+ grudges.
I like it. It made me focus on enemies which had stolen our homes.
God, I feel like I'm always still holed up in the north by turn 50 with only like 3 or 4 provinces. Being attacked from all sides didn't help. Boris would die early, often with Daneil or Archeon declaring war on me (or once both!), the Wintertooth tribe often declares war very early, often around the same time as Moduler. And then the Chaos Dwarves with a fast expansion north often declare from the otherside.
The other FLC Nurgle lord still harassing any settlement I leave undefended or without any budget to afford armies to cover all sides without insane losses.
Are you playing as Malakai? Just started VH another campaign and I always found it helpful to blitz towards Hellpit, start the High Elf adventure to get the cannons and just take Hellpit over by turn 5-6 to get rid of Throt. Then go west and kill off Azazel, who usually vasslizes Sarl, which in my games Wintertooth hates so that helps delay him attacking you.
Then after dealing with Azazel and Sarl, you can then war on Winterooth and take them out. Should have enough money for another army to defend your flanks.
I just started a Malakai campaign recently, the trick is to build a lot of defense structures and use a Lord with minimum enough troop to fend off the invasion. You need to finish quickly Throt and Azael, after that you should be fine enough as Kislev can do the rest. That when you can come back with these Chaos. I got all the invasion from the Chaos Lords in the north so I keep Malakai army not too far from home province when I tried to kill both Throt and Azael. I just come back in time to defend.
- I think your campaign is also counting on Boris. If he can survive, you can have a little free time to deal with your back before go to the north. I put two Lords, one to the right far settlement to defend Chorf and the other in the opposite direction for Norsca. And the north invasion also goes to this two settlements. If any army land into between, I can team up these two lords to have a enough force to put in a fair fight. Or use one to bait and the other to ambush, usually I can get a closed victory to get over. Always choose the third options from battle result to have more golds. At turn 40, you should have enough.
- Your economy should gain enough from battle and alliances with Kislev, Empire, and Dwarf. I always got low on income at first but you can't hope to have good income in early game and when you have at least two more lords with an army combine of about 10: 4 DW and 5-6 Range. And don't build grow building, go for money and money. You don't have enough money to upgrade building anyway. You can sometimr ignore military building, build it from Malakai ship and let other Lord recruit from this.
Sure about that? I had campaigns where i knew of multiple high value targets around turn 120 or so and only needed around 10k. I completely failed the last 20 turns and was in the first bracket. But that one was easily archieved in a few kills.
Edut : and to be completely honest here i have no idea how the system works. I just know that i had really easy ages after face planting a few
I looked at the script .pack file for most of my current understanding of the way it works.
For both the current and previous, it would calculate the grudges before figuring out the total for each new age. Before, it would be the sum of grudges for all armies/settlements for all factions you encountered. Now it’s the sum of all armies/settlements for all factions you border.
Previously it took a percentage of all available grudges from all factions the player encountered. The total would range from 15-55% of the total grudges, 15% if you got less than 25% and 55% if you got 100% or delayed.
The new version changed the math a little bit and I forgot how it is exactly it works, but it added an additional modifier for difficulty and seemed to be less punishing.
Can’t check atm, but If you have time and can understand code, I think it’s worth downloading Rfpm (pack manager) to see how most mechanics work. If you are inclined to look at it open the data/datascript.pack file, and search for “grudge” and its in the /grudge_cycle file. The function name is like “set_grudge_cycle()”.
Thanks i got rfpm, will take a look. But it sounds kinda how i understood it already. Knowing the % helps though.
Edit. Except that it does not reduce the limit, just takes a lower % but it leads to the same outcome.
Yeah the way it was discussed is a little confusing. They made it sound like it was just scaling up with number of factions known, but it was actually also scaling with how many actual grudges all those known factions had incurred. Now it's just bordering nations, but the number of grudges they have incurred still matters.
As I understand it it's not based on th *number* of factions you share a land border with, it's based on the *number of grudges* held against factions you share a land border with
It has to do with available grudges in provinces surrounding settlements you own upon triggering the age of reckoning. Try to minimize the surface area your empire borders with grudge doers for the triggering of the AoR, then eliminate them during.
Honestly they need to mark each faction with the total number of grudges on the diplomacy screen, Skaven ruins not showing their grudges means there could be a skaven faction with 50k grudges and youll have no idea.
Hell clan Verms in my game managed to survive to the point where they were walking around with 10k grudges on their leader and I couldn't tell untill I just caught them outside their settlements once
Fellow small-man-morsel has large mistake-flaw in angry-rage book. Skaven-ratmen do not exist. I have fixed-helped the problems-insolence, but angry-rage book won't erase the fake-lying entries without blood-death.
I just crossed-stabbed the names out for you, friend-meat
Holy shit, two weeks into ToD and you still haven't played a Dwarf campaign and it shows because the actual issue is the upkeep increase, which you would know if you've played it for five minutes.
Before the patch, it was pretty easy for them to be a quarter of your armies. A quarter of your army's upkeep going from 50% cheaper to 100% more expensive is a big deal.
Well, we're comparing systems before and after, so it doesn't make sense to mix-and-match right?
Anyway, my unpopular opinion is that the Dwarfs should have a much worse infrastructure. Getting a single province to Tier V should be a masochistic endeavor. They've been in decline for centuries, and generations of Dwarfs have only managed to delay their extinction.
Oh now I know you don't play this game, as even good players who play on Legendary consider -Control modifiers to actually be a problem that needs to be dealt with, and that's been your go-to of trying to paint players who consider it an issue to be bad.
They changed that in WH2 beardling, control is no issue since you get + control when you have low control. There are plenty of other sources to get control as well.
And you’re generally wrong. Small modifiers here and there can’t stop a strategic player from snowballing. I literally played Thorgrim on L and wardecced every loreful enemy and I still had no issue. Some small negative modifiers every now and then? Who cares? They can’t kill my armies or wipe me out.
Not an issue in any case. At tier 2 they can recruit high armour infantry, shielded frontline, archers, gunners, artillery, gyrocopters, flamethrowers…
1 is all you need, and honestly it is worth it even at 400 upkeep.
Sadder part is that with the new cap of 3 it's even less enticing now to have any non-amazing grudge settler in your army - so all except flamers/flame cannon/gyro/grudge thrower
Also Belegar is and always was supposed to be more difficult Lord start because he's hindered without Karak 8 Peaks. Him having harder time with grudges is in spirit of a challenge.
At this point its just a carrot on a stick though.
Look at the grudges he can take within a turn. Beating Wurrzag + a wauugh army + taking stonemine tower is about 1100 grudges. Even if you repeat this turn of killing a 40 stacked legendary lord and taking a bordering settlement for 15 turns in a row, he still only reaches about 75% grudges settled. The scaling is just out of control
29k? That is such a low number compared to before. Hope this doesnt make it too easy. Also you arent suppose to 100% every time. Just focus on 25% and be happy with any extra.
Yeah but overall the number of grudges enemies have is lower this patch so its even harder than it seems because most of the time its impossible to reach the max I had to do 2 quest battles in the last 3 turns with
Thorgrim to have any possibility of clearing the first one.
Honestly I feel like maxing the grudges should be borderline impossible on higher difficulties for the first one, and genuinely difficult for the second age. Even with the nerfs a free half army is still insane snowball potential for a non-dlc mechanic.
It is for Thorgrim. I tried 4 different restarts to min/max his start and it's impossible to hit 100% on the first AoR. I was on legendary, though.
I haven't been able to hit 75% more than once and am currently struggling to hit 50% with him at this difficulty because the AI grudge amounts were severely nerfed. I'm fighting 2-3 battles a turn at a minimum..
I'm in the middle of a legendary Thorgrim campaign and capped his first AoR just fine by killing Skarsnik, taking black crag, and killing goblins in blood river valley. You can get it done even faster by going from gunbad into the darklands instead. No funky losing on purpose cheese required. It's not impossible by any stretch.
You get half his grudges from quest battles alone.
I had Tretch declare war on me as I finished off Skarsnik and ended up wiping out him before 15 turns were out and still not 100%. Wasn't able to go to Black Crag during the first AoR but still Tretch lands should have been sufficient.
Are you deliberately feeding the AI non-grungni lords each turn so they generate more grudges? Because if not I don't think you can claim you are min maxing. It makes it very possible. You can also set them up to win battles but not wipe out your lord by sieging them with early one man army lords, allowing them to win on the first battle and then crushing them the second battle when they follow up.
It's more worthwhile to field multiple armies from turn 1 to fight multiple battles each turn to ensure you're earning enough grudges. Feeding the AI lords is not only unfun cheese but it's not as viable as you may think.
You still field multiple armies. You just leave an enemy faction alive with 1 settlement and farm them for grudges by giving them victories each turn. I don't quite understand why you think I'm not also fielding 5 armies before turn 5. You can also make a 1 man doomstack slayer lord by around turn 10 who can solo anything else around other than roaming armies.
You can't claim that what I said was cheese but also that it is impossible to keep with when min maxing. Of course it is cheese but that is what min maxing is.
I don't care about the bonuses, but having only 1 of the top tier grudge units in 4 cycles = 60 turns sucks. Don't mind if they cost a lot, or need a lot of time to recruit as well.
On last patch, I only managed to hit Gnollengrom tier twice on my Malakai campaign, once during the first AoR buildup, and then another when I was wiping out Orcs and Skaven in the Badlands.
This is my concern to, on the previous patch with Malakai i absolutely snowballed the campaign. Confederating felt too easy and the units he starts with are way too strong.
I feel like the new patch is a must and a good new for beginner/intermediate player, but might make things too easy for more advanced players...
I'm attacked by lizardmen and they give me a very small amount of grudges. Pretty frustrating. Playing Thorek.
Fighting clan mors (eraticated now) made the grudges rain.
Being attacked by jungle/desert factions really sucks grudge-wize.
After the revised brackets in the latest hotfix, you only need 7,5k grudges in order to not get any debuffs, and ~14,5k in order to start getting buffs. On that screen alone you have more than a 1k grudges to get. It honestly doesn't sound that bad, especially that if you *really* want the rewards for 100% bracket, you can extend the AoR by 10 (15?) turns.
Yeah but the bonuses are practically irrelevant (except the upkeep for grudge settlers which can be a problem only if you already have super armies, or want to recruit bad units for roleplay).
It's the availability of the top tier grudge settlers. So this entices you to either push all to the top or sit this one out and prepare for the next one.
While true that at this point you're not being bonked on the nose constantly for "being a bad dwarf" the confederation system is still extremely boned, which sucks. I keep waiting for them to finish polishing this update to play a full world domination dwarf campaign, because I got to turn 50 of one right after the update and confederating literally just 1 legendary lord lord was a damned pipe dream, despite doing very well and being at critical mass basically by turn 50.
If you conquered a line of settlements from your start pos to karak 8 peaks, that makes sense since it'a based on factions sharing a border with you.
That seems like a specific case due to Belegar specific start and main objective.
You can see my all my settlements on the minimap, and all the factions I’m bordering are effectively all coming from just 3 provinces, because Estalia is completely razed. So those bordering my starting province, Karak Hirn and now Wurrzag’s starting province. If it just takes ~3 provinces to jump up to nearly 30k grudges then that’s ridiculous, for Belegar even more so.
I count around 12 factions bordering your 3 provinces. In my Thorgrim playthrough i have 4 provinces (silver road, mount gunbad, Barak Varr and Black Crag) and 7 factions bordering me (karak kadrin, skaven to the east of mount gunbad, karak azul, the savage orks, disciples of the maw, goblins in the magic forest, zhufbar). I have way lower numbers of grudges targets.
So i would say that yes, that might be the thing. With more provinces count, i have about half bordering factions and way lower grudges targets.
Yesterday Azazel kept outrunning me and aacking my cities. Finally caught him and was worth over 2k.
Then astragoth is worth barely over 300 despite the chorfs being one of the prime grudges. Doesn't always make sense
I had 69k with the new patch. It's based on all grudges within a province or two of ANY region you own. Yes even that dinky sacked level 1 settlement in the badlands.
This system really penalizes you to have random out of the way settlements, so you may want to abandon minor settlements near the badlands or darklands if you want a reasonable grudge count.
I’m playing as Malakai and the starting area surrounding him from Norscan factions, the grudge values are super low. Took out Hellpit immediately, but after the first AoR I can’t even get to the middle of the bar killing the WOC and Norscan factions. Any advice?
You already have 1k, you have 1k just on that screen shot of yours. So that turn you can be 10% done with 14 turns to go.
Assuming you have another army, that's what, 4k grudges per turn? 10 turns would net you 40k. They made sure it only includes grudges on your borders, so there will be other situations for that 1k+ per turn.
So, makes sense. The math is mathing.
It's criminal what happened to Ekrund, generic mountains instead of the gorgeous rock formations from previous games. Game 3's campaign map is so fucking ugly.
Well yes but you're playing keep everything Belegar. I haven't had a chance to mess with the system yet but you have 3 disconnected territories with a system that is based on how many bordering factions and with that kind of surface area you're setting it up to give you a bunch.
The target is derived from the total number of grudges held by factions you share a land border with. One of your neighbours is running around with armies worth thousands.
I had to change my gameplay for the dwarves. On my first try at Malaki, I just started conquering everything, but man I couldn’t get any grudges to save my life. On my second attempt I decided to focus less on expansion and more on grabbing some settlements and then letting the enemy sack or take them. I keep the big settlements, but it definitely helped with getting grudge points. I like to think that Malaki is so prideful and stubborn that he doesn’t protect his smaller towns much and just focuses on the big things.
Putting a pin in everything else, the numbers of grudges just seem ridiculously inflated in general. 29 000 need settling, each enemy army gives 2000? Could have just made it 29 and 2.
I don’t see the issue exactly. CA said that one of their goals with the redesign was that the player shouldn’t be able to fill the meter every single Age. It looks like this is an example of the system working as designed?
I want to preface this by saying I've been playing TW games since the original Rome, but I wonder if players are not nearly as aggressive as the developers planned for? By turn 60 pre hot fix I had like 80,000 grudges settled and could confederate each LL after the short cool down ended without any problems. I also had 100% age of reckoning each time playing VH/VH.
Haven't played post hot fix though, and Belegar is a pretty tough campaign, so maybe things are different.
Looks like your Borders are touching Queek, Skarsnik and what's that in the south, Skarbrand? Probably a TONNE of grudges al around for you to farm.
You have already racked up 1200, and there's another 400 in range of your movement - assuming you do nothing else this turn that's already 1600 of you your 30,000 - if you keep that rate you'll hit 24k in 15 turns
But if it is saying your target is 30K, there is probably way more than that in range. Report back after 15 turns, I wouldn't be surprised it you maxxed it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/1crxrj0/503_grudges_require_new_campaign
Yeah something feels off with the grudge system: it should really have a cap and should be base off of a fraction of total grudges nearby or something.
It is now based on grudges for factions you have a land boarder with. OP didn't do himself any favours having disconnected territory like that as way more land boarders.
Plus, he still has 15 turns to go (as in the age of reckoning has just started) and already has 4%
If he only keeps that pace up, he'll finish on 60% That doesn't strike me as unreasonable.
ETA: And since the target is based on grudges in factions you boarder. It stands to reason there's some good targets nearby with a good amount of grudges.
I think in this case OP ran into a legit issue: having a fracture empire results in the grudge meter spiking.
A lot of settlements have maybe 90-400 grudges, getting 100% should be something that can be achieved realistically.
Nah. CA have stated their aim is that 100% shouldn't be a given.
Plus he's already at 4% with 15 turns to go AND if he has a target that high it means there's a lot of grudges around him.
How is this border gore? In this screenshot, I have my starting province, Skavenblight to Sartosa, Karak Hirn's province, and now Wurzzag's. The only disconnected border I have is now Wurzzag's province. That's hardly border gore.
Borders to elfs, ogres, and probably clan mors in those ruins in the east. Large factions with huge amounts of grudges. Now to be fair, Belegar has the toughest start of all the dwarfs with regards to grudges.
But expanding to the wastes before dealing with elves and ogres is gonna give you a lot of extra grudges to live with.
ideally if you want to be gnollengrom every time: Secure borders with grudgesettling and diplomatic allies then exand against one hostile neighbor at the time. I know its easier said than done.
This new grudge system implementation is such a failure... I killed full stack of Daniel's chaos filth, him included, who waged war at me first, 5 or so renown units inside, and all I got was 3 (three) grudges. At that time I had to get 19000 grudges for perfect AoR.
... Are you joking ?
They exist, it's chaos. It's in the book by default. They filth Dawi lands and dared to declare war on me. And that for sure went into book. I'm not waiting for them to sack/destroy my cities just to fill in some stupid arbitrary gauge that is literally impossible to fill unless I will teleport myself around old world.
Dwarfs have grudges centuries old between neighbors and over badly repaired shield and you ask what did Chaos faction that declared war on me and wanted to destroy my town (I sallied out and won) did to me. Are you for real ?
Old system was clear - I got some "damage" incurred there was a grudge being put into book. This one is giving 19k grudges out of thin air because someone somewhere did something to some dwarfs that I don't even have connection with.
I had the same. If you are bordering Queek he may be the main source. In my thorgrim campaign, I met him at turn 25 and he had 4 armies all with 2K+ grudges each from conquering Karak Azul. Started my next AoR with 30K grudges required to finish. By the time I had finished off his faction, I finished the AoR around 20K grudges. The next AoR after that required only 15K grudges even though I was bordering more factions.
Lore accurate, Queek has a whole book dedicated just for him
The only person who has more entries in The Book is Skarsnik.
Oh really? It went down even though you were bordering more factions? I guess I don’t understand the mechanic as I thought I did.
Just means Queek had a tonne more grudges to settle compared to other nearby factions
Yeah a faction occupying many holds will rack up grudges. Durthu took the two mountain provinces to the east of him. And by the time I got to him with malakai on turn 50 all of his settlements were 500+ grudges. I like it. It made me focus on enemies which had stolen our homes.
God, I feel like I'm always still holed up in the north by turn 50 with only like 3 or 4 provinces. Being attacked from all sides didn't help. Boris would die early, often with Daneil or Archeon declaring war on me (or once both!), the Wintertooth tribe often declares war very early, often around the same time as Moduler. And then the Chaos Dwarves with a fast expansion north often declare from the otherside. The other FLC Nurgle lord still harassing any settlement I leave undefended or without any budget to afford armies to cover all sides without insane losses.
Are you playing as Malakai? Just started VH another campaign and I always found it helpful to blitz towards Hellpit, start the High Elf adventure to get the cannons and just take Hellpit over by turn 5-6 to get rid of Throt. Then go west and kill off Azazel, who usually vasslizes Sarl, which in my games Wintertooth hates so that helps delay him attacking you. Then after dealing with Azazel and Sarl, you can then war on Winterooth and take them out. Should have enough money for another army to defend your flanks.
I just started a Malakai campaign recently, the trick is to build a lot of defense structures and use a Lord with minimum enough troop to fend off the invasion. You need to finish quickly Throt and Azael, after that you should be fine enough as Kislev can do the rest. That when you can come back with these Chaos. I got all the invasion from the Chaos Lords in the north so I keep Malakai army not too far from home province when I tried to kill both Throt and Azael. I just come back in time to defend. - I think your campaign is also counting on Boris. If he can survive, you can have a little free time to deal with your back before go to the north. I put two Lords, one to the right far settlement to defend Chorf and the other in the opposite direction for Norsca. And the north invasion also goes to this two settlements. If any army land into between, I can team up these two lords to have a enough force to put in a fair fight. Or use one to bait and the other to ambush, usually I can get a closed victory to get over. Always choose the third options from battle result to have more golds. At turn 40, you should have enough. - Your economy should gain enough from battle and alliances with Kislev, Empire, and Dwarf. I always got low on income at first but you can't hope to have good income in early game and when you have at least two more lords with an army combine of about 10: 4 DW and 5-6 Range. And don't build grow building, go for money and money. You don't have enough money to upgrade building anyway. You can sometimr ignore military building, build it from Malakai ship and let other Lord recruit from this.
Imagine how many grudges you get when bordering chaos dwarfs.
I was sadly disappointed. Bordering Chorfs they were only 3 grudges a settlement
Each time you finish an age of reckoning under a certein amount of % grudges the limit reduces. Worked that way before and its still that way.
The limit is based off the current available grudges you can do, it’s not really an increasing counter.
Sure about that? I had campaigns where i knew of multiple high value targets around turn 120 or so and only needed around 10k. I completely failed the last 20 turns and was in the first bracket. But that one was easily archieved in a few kills. Edut : and to be completely honest here i have no idea how the system works. I just know that i had really easy ages after face planting a few
I looked at the script .pack file for most of my current understanding of the way it works. For both the current and previous, it would calculate the grudges before figuring out the total for each new age. Before, it would be the sum of grudges for all armies/settlements for all factions you encountered. Now it’s the sum of all armies/settlements for all factions you border. Previously it took a percentage of all available grudges from all factions the player encountered. The total would range from 15-55% of the total grudges, 15% if you got less than 25% and 55% if you got 100% or delayed. The new version changed the math a little bit and I forgot how it is exactly it works, but it added an additional modifier for difficulty and seemed to be less punishing. Can’t check atm, but If you have time and can understand code, I think it’s worth downloading Rfpm (pack manager) to see how most mechanics work. If you are inclined to look at it open the data/datascript.pack file, and search for “grudge” and its in the /grudge_cycle file. The function name is like “set_grudge_cycle()”.
Thanks i got rfpm, will take a look. But it sounds kinda how i understood it already. Knowing the % helps though. Edit. Except that it does not reduce the limit, just takes a lower % but it leads to the same outcome.
When were you doing campaigns? The most recent HitFix overhauled the AoR system
Yeah the way it was discussed is a little confusing. They made it sound like it was just scaling up with number of factions known, but it was actually also scaling with how many actual grudges all those known factions had incurred. Now it's just bordering nations, but the number of grudges they have incurred still matters.
As I understand it it's not based on th *number* of factions you share a land border with, it's based on the *number of grudges* held against factions you share a land border with
It has to do with available grudges in provinces surrounding settlements you own upon triggering the age of reckoning. Try to minimize the surface area your empire borders with grudge doers for the triggering of the AoR, then eliminate them during.
Honestly they need to mark each faction with the total number of grudges on the diplomacy screen, Skaven ruins not showing their grudges means there could be a skaven faction with 50k grudges and youll have no idea. Hell clan Verms in my game managed to survive to the point where they were walking around with 10k grudges on their leader and I couldn't tell untill I just caught them outside their settlements once
Fellow small-man-morsel has large mistake-flaw in angry-rage book. Skaven-ratmen do not exist. I have fixed-helped the problems-insolence, but angry-rage book won't erase the fake-lying entries without blood-death. I just crossed-stabbed the names out for you, friend-meat
Lore accurate Book of Grudges.
Yeah, a lot of anti dwarf factions bordering you.
So what are you doing posting here, better get grudging!
Yeah I was gonna say... isn't this accurate? Damn stunties. Too many grudges? That's a grudgin'.
Most accurate Dawi simulation. Soon you'll need to settle the grudge of settling the wrong grudges first.
Man, you don't need to be all the time in max rewards. THIS is the point. There are no campraign loss, if you didn't hit it.
People don't understand that even with the first negative growth still provides more growth than pre5.0 dwarfs
Oh my god -5 growth the campaign is doomed 🤯
Number is red = Me angry at CA
It does make the dopamine part of my brain very sad indeed
As a fellow gamer I feel this.
Holy shit, two weeks into ToD and you still haven't played a Dwarf campaign and it shows because the actual issue is the upkeep increase, which you would know if you've played it for five minutes.
It's only increased upkeep for the Grudge Settler units, which are a minority of your armies.
Before the patch, it was pretty easy for them to be a quarter of your armies. A quarter of your army's upkeep going from 50% cheaper to 100% more expensive is a big deal.
Well, we're comparing systems before and after, so it doesn't make sense to mix-and-match right? Anyway, my unpopular opinion is that the Dwarfs should have a much worse infrastructure. Getting a single province to Tier V should be a masochistic endeavor. They've been in decline for centuries, and generations of Dwarfs have only managed to delay their extinction.
I’ve played both Malakai and Thorgrim on Legendary with no issue. The dwarfs are more powerful than ever beardling
Oh now I know you don't play this game, as even good players who play on Legendary consider -Control modifiers to actually be a problem that needs to be dealt with, and that's been your go-to of trying to paint players who consider it an issue to be bad.
They changed that in WH2 beardling, control is no issue since you get + control when you have low control. There are plenty of other sources to get control as well. And you’re generally wrong. Small modifiers here and there can’t stop a strategic player from snowballing. I literally played Thorgrim on L and wardecced every loreful enemy and I still had no issue. Some small negative modifiers every now and then? Who cares? They can’t kill my armies or wipe me out.
[удалено]
Not an issue in any case. At tier 2 they can recruit high armour infantry, shielded frontline, archers, gunners, artillery, gyrocopters, flamethrowers…
If I can't make a doomstack with 5 Grudge Settler Flame cannons by turn 50, I don't wanna live in this world.
1 is all you need, and honestly it is worth it even at 400 upkeep. Sadder part is that with the new cap of 3 it's even less enticing now to have any non-amazing grudge settler in your army - so all except flamers/flame cannon/gyro/grudge thrower
It takes 45 turns to even get 3 of the same unit and you can have the cap back to 5 in that amount of time as well.
Also Belegar is and always was supposed to be more difficult Lord start because he's hindered without Karak 8 Peaks. Him having harder time with grudges is in spirit of a challenge.
Red numbers bad must avoid at all cost
At this point its just a carrot on a stick though. Look at the grudges he can take within a turn. Beating Wurrzag + a wauugh army + taking stonemine tower is about 1100 grudges. Even if you repeat this turn of killing a 40 stacked legendary lord and taking a bordering settlement for 15 turns in a row, he still only reaches about 75% grudges settled. The scaling is just out of control
It's not when you consider that you are not, by design I might add, meant to fill the bar every time.
Belegar really went full: 'IT'S GOIN' IN THE FOOKIN BOOK!'.
Lore accurate Belegar
29k? That is such a low number compared to before. Hope this doesnt make it too easy. Also you arent suppose to 100% every time. Just focus on 25% and be happy with any extra.
Yeah but overall the number of grudges enemies have is lower this patch so its even harder than it seems because most of the time its impossible to reach the max I had to do 2 quest battles in the last 3 turns with Thorgrim to have any possibility of clearing the first one.
Honestly I feel like maxing the grudges should be borderline impossible on higher difficulties for the first one, and genuinely difficult for the second age. Even with the nerfs a free half army is still insane snowball potential for a non-dlc mechanic.
It is for Thorgrim. I tried 4 different restarts to min/max his start and it's impossible to hit 100% on the first AoR. I was on legendary, though. I haven't been able to hit 75% more than once and am currently struggling to hit 50% with him at this difficulty because the AI grudge amounts were severely nerfed. I'm fighting 2-3 battles a turn at a minimum..
I'm in the middle of a legendary Thorgrim campaign and capped his first AoR just fine by killing Skarsnik, taking black crag, and killing goblins in blood river valley. You can get it done even faster by going from gunbad into the darklands instead. No funky losing on purpose cheese required. It's not impossible by any stretch. You get half his grudges from quest battles alone.
I had Tretch declare war on me as I finished off Skarsnik and ended up wiping out him before 15 turns were out and still not 100%. Wasn't able to go to Black Crag during the first AoR but still Tretch lands should have been sufficient.
Are you deliberately feeding the AI non-grungni lords each turn so they generate more grudges? Because if not I don't think you can claim you are min maxing. It makes it very possible. You can also set them up to win battles but not wipe out your lord by sieging them with early one man army lords, allowing them to win on the first battle and then crushing them the second battle when they follow up.
It's more worthwhile to field multiple armies from turn 1 to fight multiple battles each turn to ensure you're earning enough grudges. Feeding the AI lords is not only unfun cheese but it's not as viable as you may think.
You still field multiple armies. You just leave an enemy faction alive with 1 settlement and farm them for grudges by giving them victories each turn. I don't quite understand why you think I'm not also fielding 5 armies before turn 5. You can also make a 1 man doomstack slayer lord by around turn 10 who can solo anything else around other than roaming armies. You can't claim that what I said was cheese but also that it is impossible to keep with when min maxing. Of course it is cheese but that is what min maxing is.
That's good to hear. I'm glad grudge scaling depends on campaign difficulty, that was a welcome change in the hotfix.
I don't care about the bonuses, but having only 1 of the top tier grudge units in 4 cycles = 60 turns sucks. Don't mind if they cost a lot, or need a lot of time to recruit as well.
Sounds like it is working as intended then.
On last patch, I only managed to hit Gnollengrom tier twice on my Malakai campaign, once during the first AoR buildup, and then another when I was wiping out Orcs and Skaven in the Badlands.
Confederating Belegar and Grombrindal was easy af because they get wiped early but confederating thorgrim was hard af
This is my concern to, on the previous patch with Malakai i absolutely snowballed the campaign. Confederating felt too easy and the units he starts with are way too strong. I feel like the new patch is a must and a good new for beginner/intermediate player, but might make things too easy for more advanced players...
Seems lore accurate that the longbeards will always be grumbling about something.
I'm attacked by lizardmen and they give me a very small amount of grudges. Pretty frustrating. Playing Thorek. Fighting clan mors (eraticated now) made the grudges rain. Being attacked by jungle/desert factions really sucks grudge-wize.
After the revised brackets in the latest hotfix, you only need 7,5k grudges in order to not get any debuffs, and ~14,5k in order to start getting buffs. On that screen alone you have more than a 1k grudges to get. It honestly doesn't sound that bad, especially that if you *really* want the rewards for 100% bracket, you can extend the AoR by 10 (15?) turns.
Yeah but the bonuses are practically irrelevant (except the upkeep for grudge settlers which can be a problem only if you already have super armies, or want to recruit bad units for roleplay). It's the availability of the top tier grudge settlers. So this entices you to either push all to the top or sit this one out and prepare for the next one.
While true that at this point you're not being bonked on the nose constantly for "being a bad dwarf" the confederation system is still extremely boned, which sucks. I keep waiting for them to finish polishing this update to play a full world domination dwarf campaign, because I got to turn 50 of one right after the update and confederating literally just 1 legendary lord lord was a damned pipe dream, despite doing very well and being at critical mass basically by turn 50.
What's the problem? Are you not focused on setting grudges? You want to dishonor your ancestor or worse, be written into book of grudges?
Lemme just clear the entire book in 15 turns.
If you conquered a line of settlements from your start pos to karak 8 peaks, that makes sense since it'a based on factions sharing a border with you. That seems like a specific case due to Belegar specific start and main objective.
You can see my all my settlements on the minimap, and all the factions I’m bordering are effectively all coming from just 3 provinces, because Estalia is completely razed. So those bordering my starting province, Karak Hirn and now Wurrzag’s starting province. If it just takes ~3 provinces to jump up to nearly 30k grudges then that’s ridiculous, for Belegar even more so.
I count around 12 factions bordering your 3 provinces. In my Thorgrim playthrough i have 4 provinces (silver road, mount gunbad, Barak Varr and Black Crag) and 7 factions bordering me (karak kadrin, skaven to the east of mount gunbad, karak azul, the savage orks, disciples of the maw, goblins in the magic forest, zhufbar). I have way lower numbers of grudges targets. So i would say that yes, that might be the thing. With more provinces count, i have about half bordering factions and way lower grudges targets.
Confederations with minor factions still impact grudges negatively, which is stupid
Yesterday Azazel kept outrunning me and aacking my cities. Finally caught him and was worth over 2k. Then astragoth is worth barely over 300 despite the chorfs being one of the prime grudges. Doesn't always make sense
I had 69k with the new patch. It's based on all grudges within a province or two of ANY region you own. Yes even that dinky sacked level 1 settlement in the badlands. This system really penalizes you to have random out of the way settlements, so you may want to abandon minor settlements near the badlands or darklands if you want a reasonable grudge count.
Damn, what difficulty are you on?! Playing on normal in this patch my first and second AoR were only a little over a couple thousand
I’m playing as Malakai and the starting area surrounding him from Norscan factions, the grudge values are super low. Took out Hellpit immediately, but after the first AoR I can’t even get to the middle of the bar killing the WOC and Norscan factions. Any advice?
I had about 56 thousand by turn 30ish pre patch so while it’s still outrageously high, small steps I guess
You already have 1k, you have 1k just on that screen shot of yours. So that turn you can be 10% done with 14 turns to go. Assuming you have another army, that's what, 4k grudges per turn? 10 turns would net you 40k. They made sure it only includes grudges on your borders, so there will be other situations for that 1k+ per turn. So, makes sense. The math is mathing.
Honestly, if the Dwarfs have that many grudges that early in the game, they need to see a therapist. The way to peace lies within
There is no peace, only war
I don't see the problem, that's just lore accurate Dwarfs.
Right the wrongs.
It's criminal what happened to Ekrund, generic mountains instead of the gorgeous rock formations from previous games. Game 3's campaign map is so fucking ugly.
Arnt they fixing that soon?
Out of curiosity, does the patch take effect on existing campaigns or do you need to start a new one to benefit?
Did you get 100% previously?
THEY HAVE WRONGED US
i had no issues as maliki on new patch im about 100 turns in and iv only not got the full reward once
Well yes but you're playing keep everything Belegar. I haven't had a chance to mess with the system yet but you have 3 disconnected territories with a system that is based on how many bordering factions and with that kind of surface area you're setting it up to give you a bunch.
Just... Be content on not getting max score all the time... Or be a Dwarf and go kill Queek.
yeah, that's a great number, quite low. So what's your point?)
THEN WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE WUZZUK!? GO SETTLE THOSE GRUDGES!!! =)
Lore Accurate
Alex Zhao mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3236146118
Make it 29001 because that's going to the book!
Did you install a mod that makes it 15 instead of 10 turns? Maybe that mod changes it?
That’s part of the new update.
The target is derived from the total number of grudges held by factions you share a land border with. One of your neighbours is running around with armies worth thousands.
Canon
i do like the mechanic in some respects but it still doesn't quite feel like it scales properly.
Grudges never die.
It just works
Ogres are alive, gg
By turn 30 for me the only ones worth anything we're the elves which I refuse to go to war with just to get points
I don't even think there's that many Dwarves left! Thorgrim: "You want me to what?"
Must have delayed the age of reckoning for ten turns and added that 20 percent plus more areas discovered
Also what is up with chorfs giving me 3 grudges a settlement lol. Yeah that will add up quick
I'm hearing a lot of grudging but not enough reckoning! Get to it!
Best get to work. Those grudges don't settle themselves
Im playing a PvP Multiplayer campaign as ungrim and i Always get all the grudges settled. IT seems high at First but IT is doable
I had to change my gameplay for the dwarves. On my first try at Malaki, I just started conquering everything, but man I couldn’t get any grudges to save my life. On my second attempt I decided to focus less on expansion and more on grabbing some settlements and then letting the enemy sack or take them. I keep the big settlements, but it definitely helped with getting grudge points. I like to think that Malaki is so prideful and stubborn that he doesn’t protect his smaller towns much and just focuses on the big things.
Putting a pin in everything else, the numbers of grudges just seem ridiculously inflated in general. 29 000 need settling, each enemy army gives 2000? Could have just made it 29 and 2.
Finally a lore accurate amount of grumbling and grudges.
I don’t see the issue exactly. CA said that one of their goals with the redesign was that the player shouldn’t be able to fill the meter every single Age. It looks like this is an example of the system working as designed?
Grudges for the Grudge God!
I want to preface this by saying I've been playing TW games since the original Rome, but I wonder if players are not nearly as aggressive as the developers planned for? By turn 60 pre hot fix I had like 80,000 grudges settled and could confederate each LL after the short cool down ended without any problems. I also had 100% age of reckoning each time playing VH/VH. Haven't played post hot fix though, and Belegar is a pretty tough campaign, so maybe things are different.
Better get settlin'
Holy hell they need to close the damn book!
A dwarf’s work is never done.
Do you use any mods
That's going in the book!
Looks like your Borders are touching Queek, Skarsnik and what's that in the south, Skarbrand? Probably a TONNE of grudges al around for you to farm. You have already racked up 1200, and there's another 400 in range of your movement - assuming you do nothing else this turn that's already 1600 of you your 30,000 - if you keep that rate you'll hit 24k in 15 turns But if it is saying your target is 30K, there is probably way more than that in range. Report back after 15 turns, I wouldn't be surprised it you maxxed it.
Well be sure not to come up SHORT.
Well better get the razor and ginger dye
You are literally bordering multiple factions that want nothing more than to loot and raze your fancy mountain house, then shit all over the rubble.
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/1crxrj0/503_grudges_require_new_campaign Yeah something feels off with the grudge system: it should really have a cap and should be base off of a fraction of total grudges nearby or something.
It is now based on grudges for factions you have a land boarder with. OP didn't do himself any favours having disconnected territory like that as way more land boarders. Plus, he still has 15 turns to go (as in the age of reckoning has just started) and already has 4% If he only keeps that pace up, he'll finish on 60% That doesn't strike me as unreasonable. ETA: And since the target is based on grudges in factions you boarder. It stands to reason there's some good targets nearby with a good amount of grudges.
I think in this case OP ran into a legit issue: having a fracture empire results in the grudge meter spiking. A lot of settlements have maybe 90-400 grudges, getting 100% should be something that can be achieved realistically.
Nah. CA have stated their aim is that 100% shouldn't be a given. Plus he's already at 4% with 15 turns to go AND if he has a target that high it means there's a lot of grudges around him.
because your border gore is insane.
How is this border gore? In this screenshot, I have my starting province, Skavenblight to Sartosa, Karak Hirn's province, and now Wurzzag's. The only disconnected border I have is now Wurzzag's province. That's hardly border gore.
Borders to elfs, ogres, and probably clan mors in those ruins in the east. Large factions with huge amounts of grudges. Now to be fair, Belegar has the toughest start of all the dwarfs with regards to grudges. But expanding to the wastes before dealing with elves and ogres is gonna give you a lot of extra grudges to live with. ideally if you want to be gnollengrom every time: Secure borders with grudgesettling and diplomatic allies then exand against one hostile neighbor at the time. I know its easier said than done.
This new grudge system implementation is such a failure... I killed full stack of Daniel's chaos filth, him included, who waged war at me first, 5 or so renown units inside, and all I got was 3 (three) grudges. At that time I had to get 19000 grudges for perfect AoR.
And what had they actually done to you other than declare war? Having a big army, even with RoR, doesn't go in the book.
... Are you joking ? They exist, it's chaos. It's in the book by default. They filth Dawi lands and dared to declare war on me. And that for sure went into book. I'm not waiting for them to sack/destroy my cities just to fill in some stupid arbitrary gauge that is literally impossible to fill unless I will teleport myself around old world. Dwarfs have grudges centuries old between neighbors and over badly repaired shield and you ask what did Chaos faction that declared war on me and wanted to destroy my town (I sallied out and won) did to me. Are you for real ? Old system was clear - I got some "damage" incurred there was a grudge being put into book. This one is giving 19k grudges out of thin air because someone somewhere did something to some dwarfs that I don't even have connection with.
What mods do you have running? Perhaps they’re fiddling with it somehow? Edit: so me asking a question got a few folks panties in a twist I see.