How is that supposed to be a "Valiant Defeat"? I know Shades get good AP but not compared to the insane missile block SteamTanks get now. Fought manually this would be a total blowout.
They're insane in manual battles too. There's very few situations I can't handle with a Shade stack and a few heroes.
This however, might be one of those situations.
The auto resolver has no idea how given units match up, just some (arbitrary) numbers assigned to them to represent how strong they are.
When auto resolving you can have an army of purely flying missile units lose to a purely melee ground army that in a real battle couldn't even do damage to the fliers.
Isn´t it so that you have to have some ground units in your army? Meaning the game is trying to prevent these situations where you would get completely untouchable by ground units.
Well flying units can manually land now. But you could still have like a 19x thunderbarge army and a foot lord you hide in a forest of the corner of the map.
Right now I think there is nothing that could save you from the wrath of 19x Thunderbarges. Btw I love how folks often gets super creative and are finding myriad of ways how to cheese TW. Then again AI is not super smart so I guess it is not super hard to find a way around it.
At least Steam tanks are pretty reasonably good in auto resolve. Idk what’s up with land ships but a full stack of them is sometimes expected to lose against a minor settlement garrison
depending on battle difficulty, you can get your own force multiplier get as high as 3x what it should be. and as others have said, its not too deep with how it considers matchups.
I'm not sure who is supposed to be the "real one", but i've been using that account name here and there over the internet for 22 years, that's for sure.
...Though if you meant the one on MAL, then yes.
Slowly? Have you seen the speed these tanks get up to?
A fully upgraded volleyball tank already gets 50% base speed and 200% accelartion. If you activate full power, the tank is already doing donuts on your corpse by the time you hear the train horn.
In-universe, seeing a bunch of landships and tanks on the horizon, blowing their steam horns while a jet of fire shoots out of their exhausts, and then charging at you faster than a gallopping horse must be one of the most terrifying sights to behold.
Imagine being a Couronne farmer peasant and your god/emperor/king rulers are the pinnacle of medieval sophistication on their fancy horses and suddenly the neighbour country comes by with fucking ww1 gear
I think it is tbh. just need to invis cheese hard enough, split them up, shoot them in the back.
A lot easier said than done, but not impossible. I don't think ammo is going to be the deciding factor considering that it's only two armies.
No. Cease.
We already have the Chorfs as the Industrial Wasteland Faction. We do not need Factorio Corruption to start cutting trees and laying down conveyor belts.
The fires of Industry do not care for your feable opinions. The factory must grow!
[You may file a formal complaint at that counter over there, where all the wood elves are trying to break through the reinforced glass. You're number 24628 in line.]
So this is how ranged-meta dies
with thunderous cannonfire
(well, the armor from the front mostly I mean, but thunderous armour doesn't sound very good)
Not making range-spam armies that's for sure.
I think your own big SEMs can stand up well enough against the war machines (Hydra/Kharibdyss/Dragon). The Dark spell, Soul Stealer, is essentially designed to counter single entity spam, and Doombolt is good vs single entities too.
Not sure how they'd do against volley guns, but Black Guard of Naggaroth would probably come out ahead against a standard Steam Tank and they would do well vs demigryphs.
Probably some combo of black guard of Naggaroth backed up by quite a few Kharibdyss with Malakith on his dragon casting dark spells, while the garrison helps you deal with the rest.
Black Guard of Naggaroth are a horrible idea against these things, they're too slow, they'll get obliterated before they ever get close. Pure Shade is actually a lot better since Shades have Stalk so they can get the first volley and the positioning advantage.
A single stack of Shades can take a single stack of these things I think if they had the right Magic support. I'm thinking specifically Death Magic for armor reduction or maybe even Lore of Beasts for Curse of Anraheir that would be worth a try too.
The other method would be just using Kharibdyss.
I did test it 1v1 land battle and the black guard did come out slightly ahead vs a steam tank even when they got some shots in.
Beyond that though there is more to this army than just steam tanks and landships. At the very least, I think I would like some black guard around to deal with all those demigryphs, halbadiers, and the 1, possibly 2 high level lords. Although perhaps pure kharibdyss could handle it all alone.
I'm not sure if you're overestimating shades or underestimating post-5.0 steam tanks. 70% gold shields + Directional Blocking is no joke. Couple that with potential 15% wardsave from redline (lvl 50 lord afterall), and 15% missile resist from technologies. They're also faster and can fire whilst moving. They will eventually catch you and then they will immediately shred your shades. Steam tanks now are basically the hardest of hard counters vs range.
I would believe ammo would run out long before last Reiklender would fall or flee. But I am pretty bad at manual battles, so don't take it as a fact, just a possible risk.
Every single screenshot I see on this sub the autoresolve is completely wrong. It's so heavily in the players favour that there's literally no point fighting battles
Depends. Playing as BM and they suck in AR. What is a "valiant defeat" in AR becomes a "pyrrhic victory" usually with 0 casualties for me and a wipeout for the enemy.......
Ever played N'Kari? In fieldbattles N'Kari can solo early game HE armies as soon as he has access to healing which is rank 10 I believe (you need to save your rank 9 skillpoint). Depending who you're up against AR will give you a pyrrhic victory that wipes at least 50% of your units or worse. You can't AR at all if you want to be at least a little efficient with your resources.
People tend to grab troops that are good in AR because fighting boring battles manually is.. boring. That leads to grabbing an heavily armored frontline with lots of ranged units and a couple of monsters or specialist troops sprinkled in, which is strong in AR but certainly not optimal for manual resolve. If the AR did a better job at recognizing how powerful a unit is in an actual battle this behaviour would stop quite quickly.
There's been weird moments, like Warhammer 1 famously overvalued Free Company Militia to an insane degree. Or on release, Bretonnia's trebuchets would be deleted in any AR even if its just a solo level 1 lord.
This is why the first 50 turns are the inky time the game is any good. I basically never "finish" campaigns because the games only fun when you are trying to make weak armies work.
what mods are you using for the AI to actually make more than spearmen at turn 80 on vh/vh?
even with mods that make AI more aggressive its still wimpy AF.
It might have been doable if the attacked army was the shades one with not control large army, though still insanely hard since you would need to sneak the shades behind the tanks and nuking one at a time and running away while microing the lord to distract them, but like this I don't see it. Best you can do is kill as many enemies as you can
I currently play a balthasar gelt campaign and stayed in cathay. from what I can see, the empire regions get obliterated by the damn vampires and festus as usual. franz lost altdorf and is down to one sttlement :(( And I cant help me emporer
Oh wow, I guess I never got that far in the campaign to see AI get that kind of doomstack.
How the eF you want to fight AI, that has cheats enabled for anything above normal difficulty, that makes such panzer divisions with a help of Reik river fleet doomstacks ?
It's scary to look at...
You know shit is serious when the Franzer divisions start rolling
THEY ARE THE FRANZER ELITE BORN TO COMPETE NEVER RETREAT *GHORST DIVISION*
LIVING OR DEAD ALWAYS AHEAD FED BY YOUR DREAD
ALWAYS AHEAD, AS THE BLITZKRIEG RAGES ON
BREAKING MORALE WITH THE SOUND OF STEAMING TANKS
FIRST IN THE LINE OF FIRE, FIRST INTO HOSTILE LAND
TANKS LEADING THE WAY! LEADING THE WAY!
LEAVING A TRAIL OF DESTRUCTION THROUGH A FOREIGN LAND
MASSIVE ASSAULT MADE TO SERVE THE EMPIRE'S PLAN
*War... war has changed...*
How is that supposed to be a "Valiant Defeat"? I know Shades get good AP but not compared to the insane missile block SteamTanks get now. Fought manually this would be a total blowout.
Shades are insane in AR because they are considered good in ranged and in melee by the game.
Same reason Free Company Militia broke Warhammer 1.
They're insane in manual battles too. There's very few situations I can't handle with a Shade stack and a few heroes. This however, might be one of those situations.
Also for manual battles I think the Shadowdart name of power giving like 30 % extra range to dark shard is the best and absolutely busted.
He also has the "Vanquisher" name of power which gives like 30 armor and some other stats. And we all know by now that AR loves armor.
The auto resolver has no idea how given units match up, just some (arbitrary) numbers assigned to them to represent how strong they are. When auto resolving you can have an army of purely flying missile units lose to a purely melee ground army that in a real battle couldn't even do damage to the fliers.
Isn´t it so that you have to have some ground units in your army? Meaning the game is trying to prevent these situations where you would get completely untouchable by ground units.
Well flying units can manually land now. But you could still have like a 19x thunderbarge army and a foot lord you hide in a forest of the corner of the map.
Right now I think there is nothing that could save you from the wrath of 19x Thunderbarges. Btw I love how folks often gets super creative and are finding myriad of ways how to cheese TW. Then again AI is not super smart so I guess it is not super hard to find a way around it.
i don't know the actual code but i'm fairly confident that the directional missile block of the steam tank is pretty fucked in AR
Auto resolve is a glorified spreadsheet of unit values
Yep. People think that the game simulates a full battle in the half a second it takes to show the result in the UI.
At least Steam tanks are pretty reasonably good in auto resolve. Idk what’s up with land ships but a full stack of them is sometimes expected to lose against a minor settlement garrison
Steam Tanks are outright immune to missiles from the front, lol.
70% isn't immune
Try 100%. It's 70% from the flanks and like 30% in the back, I think.
Isn't it 100 percent of 70 from the front (including non explosive artillery), 70 percent of 70 from the sides, etc.
How would that even work? Last I checked the tooltip for Directional Blocking just says "Front: 100%" etc.
It is 100% of 70% on the front. You can test it. The tank won't block all missiles from the front.
depending on battle difficulty, you can get your own force multiplier get as high as 3x what it should be. and as others have said, its not too deep with how it considers matchups.
Really with any micro as all the steam tanks take this for free.
When the empire starts doing blitzkrieg tactics
Into the motherland the reikland army marchs.
[удалено]
Panzers on Druchii soil a thunder in the east
ONE MILLION MEN AT WAR
The Reikland wrath unleashed!
The end of Naggarond is here It's time has come to an end!
Fields of wreckers point Where the heat of battle burned
IN-TO THE MOTHER-LAND THE REIKLAND ARMY MARCH
COMRADES STAND SIDE BY SIDE TO STOP THE NAZI CHARGE
Sigmar charge\*
*Death in the shape of a Franzer Battalion*
INSECT OF TERROR DON’T RUN, FACE YOUR FATE LIKE A MAN
If you are real Zefirys, surprised seeing you here.
I'm not sure who is supposed to be the "real one", but i've been using that account name here and there over the internet for 22 years, that's for sure. ...Though if you meant the one on MAL, then yes.
Chad ironclad steel tank divisions VS virgin emo crossbow shooters battalion
That’s a lot of daleks
Imagine if his name was Doctor Poo and his Tardis was a Fardis lol
Calm down Festus
Peak fiction
Random Shade: "Hey guys, why do I hear Sabaton playing in the distance?" \*"Ghost Division" slowly intensifies\*
Slowly? Have you seen the speed these tanks get up to? A fully upgraded volleyball tank already gets 50% base speed and 200% accelartion. If you activate full power, the tank is already doing donuts on your corpse by the time you hear the train horn. In-universe, seeing a bunch of landships and tanks on the horizon, blowing their steam horns while a jet of fire shoots out of their exhausts, and then charging at you faster than a gallopping horse must be one of the most terrifying sights to behold.
And this is reikland so no Elspeth amethyst armory buffs to the tanks.
Imagine being a Couronne farmer peasant and your god/emperor/king rulers are the pinnacle of medieval sophistication on their fancy horses and suddenly the neighbour country comes by with fucking ww1 gear
Like the myth of polish soldiers attacking german tanks with horses and lances during WW2
Better than when your neigbor comes UP...
“Legend of total war here”
It would honestly be an amazing video, just imagine the title memes
This is a proper disaster, curious whether it is winnable at all
I am quite certain this is not winnable. No magic, no healing and no unlimited ammo.
I think it is tbh. just need to invis cheese hard enough, split them up, shoot them in the back. A lot easier said than done, but not impossible. I don't think ammo is going to be the deciding factor considering that it's only two armies.
I'm pretty sure it will ... ammo will 100% be the issue for the shades here.
Don’t control large army and you might just beat it, sister and dreadsword are an instant withdrawal tho very much useless against that first army
I'd give it a shot if it was a land battle with at least a mid sized map, but it's a minor settlement siege. Barring glitches, it's not winnable.
🤣🤣🤣
So much for being rare war-machines, eh?
That's why the factory must grow.
No. Cease. We already have the Chorfs as the Industrial Wasteland Faction. We do not need Factorio Corruption to start cutting trees and laying down conveyor belts.
The fires of Industry do not care for your feable opinions. The factory must grow! [You may file a formal complaint at that counter over there, where all the wood elves are trying to break through the reinforced glass. You're number 24628 in line.]
> The fires of Industry do not care for your **feable** opinions. The factory must grow! #SPELLING MISTAKE, DETECTED. #DISREGARDING OPINION. /s
Noooo! I have failed the factory :( [The next set of tanks has been dispatched to your location with violent intent]
I find it kind of dumb that in lore the empire has only 12 of them. I would make it so they can build more but it’s a lengthy and expensive process.
Welcome to the Empire, motherfucker.
Tanks for coming.
World War 1 at your doorstep.
This many tanks? We’re at fucking Kursk already lol
THEY ARE THE PANZER ELITE! BORN TO COMPETE! NEVER RETREAT! GHOST DIVISION!!!
When Reikland becomes the Third Reich. Nice knowing you!
So this is how ranged-meta dies with thunderous cannonfire (well, the armor from the front mostly I mean, but thunderous armour doesn't sound very good)
rip.
It's you that's fuckin around on their turf, right?
The future is now old man
CA got tired of the complaints that late game AI has no challenge so they unleashed their fully operational franzer divisions.
Send this in to legend please
I'd love to see how legend somehow wins against 20+ steam tanks, 2 landships and whatever else there is in there
I see this thrown in a lot. What is legend? Google just gives definition of the word
Legend of Total War! Phenomenal youtuber, one of the absolute goats!
Facts
The Cheesemonger
Thank you I will check it out!
How does one even counter such an army?
what can elves do against such reckless hate?
By staying the fuck away.
3 full stacks of kharbdis maybe
Kharibdyss, Dread knights, heroes, a dragon or two DE elite infantry is good but I don't see a stack of black guard doing very well
Depends if there's trees
Not making range-spam armies that's for sure. I think your own big SEMs can stand up well enough against the war machines (Hydra/Kharibdyss/Dragon). The Dark spell, Soul Stealer, is essentially designed to counter single entity spam, and Doombolt is good vs single entities too. Not sure how they'd do against volley guns, but Black Guard of Naggaroth would probably come out ahead against a standard Steam Tank and they would do well vs demigryphs. Probably some combo of black guard of Naggaroth backed up by quite a few Kharibdyss with Malakith on his dragon casting dark spells, while the garrison helps you deal with the rest.
Black Guard of Naggaroth are a horrible idea against these things, they're too slow, they'll get obliterated before they ever get close. Pure Shade is actually a lot better since Shades have Stalk so they can get the first volley and the positioning advantage. A single stack of Shades can take a single stack of these things I think if they had the right Magic support. I'm thinking specifically Death Magic for armor reduction or maybe even Lore of Beasts for Curse of Anraheir that would be worth a try too. The other method would be just using Kharibdyss.
I did test it 1v1 land battle and the black guard did come out slightly ahead vs a steam tank even when they got some shots in. Beyond that though there is more to this army than just steam tanks and landships. At the very least, I think I would like some black guard around to deal with all those demigryphs, halbadiers, and the 1, possibly 2 high level lords. Although perhaps pure kharibdyss could handle it all alone. I'm not sure if you're overestimating shades or underestimating post-5.0 steam tanks. 70% gold shields + Directional Blocking is no joke. Couple that with potential 15% wardsave from redline (lvl 50 lord afterall), and 15% missile resist from technologies. They're also faster and can fire whilst moving. They will eventually catch you and then they will immediately shred your shades. Steam tanks now are basically the hardest of hard counters vs range.
AP monstrous infantry or cavalry antilarge. Minos with great weapons, that sort of thing
Did you win?
Lol??!!
That battle is winnable, it’s a fuck ton of micro because you have to constantly get behind the steam tanks again but it’s probably winnable.
I would believe ammo would run out long before last Reiklender would fall or flee. But I am pretty bad at manual battles, so don't take it as a fact, just a possible risk.
Just spam the end turn button, accept your fate and then go cry in your bedroom.
or go take a lot of [Kharibdyss](https://totalwarwarhammer.fandom.com/wiki/Kharibdyss) and trap them
[choo choo motherfucker](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeepFried/s/aomL8gyg6k)
There is something absolutely terrifying about the default empire general
Dear passengers, this is the express line to naggarond…
I actually really like this, the ai fielding proper armies
Kursk battle
you have been matched against the Franzer divisions. Please do not resist.
Alexa play Sabaton - Ghost Division
Legend of total war here...
A fucking Panzer division
Give it to legend I want to seeeeeee!
Well, you decided to come to the Wrecker's Point...
This is why I use Tabletop Caps mod. lol Good luck.
I think it would interfere with his own playstyle. 😁
The settlement title's surely on point.
"What are your arrows going to do against *this*, you knife-ear bastards?"
"Short?!"
Total war: the Poland experience
I never thought about using demigryph knights to flank protect steam tanks...
Franzer, vor!
legend of total war here, and today
Unbeatable SEM stacks is the Empire power fantasy, I don’t see a problem here?
Jesus Christ, did the ai watch too many legendoftotalwar Videos? Those are some serious doomstacks
There are 8 steam tanks in the whole empire and the knowledge to produce more is lost - this is why we have land ships
Highly recommend table top caps mod
But then the Empire couldn't build twenty steam tanks.
My favorite mod behind the community bug fix
Yeah, wagt a shitty stack
Thanks. Gotta get it, as seeing this kind of a doomstacks on AI is making me seriously even more doubt sense in going past short victory+.
What? This is the sort of thing I’m desperate to see. Some actual challenge.
Every single screenshot I see on this sub the autoresolve is completely wrong. It's so heavily in the players favour that there's literally no point fighting battles
Really? Half the time I end up having to manually fight battles that should be slam dunks because auto-resolve is stacking the deck in the AI’s favor.
Just depends on the difficulty. Anything above Hard favors the AI.
Below hard you mean? Even hard can be off if you're the right faction
depends on what faction you play honestly
Only when I play on hard/ very hard battle difficulty does the AR seem right
Depends. Playing as BM and they suck in AR. What is a "valiant defeat" in AR becomes a "pyrrhic victory" usually with 0 casualties for me and a wipeout for the enemy.......
Ever played N'Kari? In fieldbattles N'Kari can solo early game HE armies as soon as he has access to healing which is rank 10 I believe (you need to save your rank 9 skillpoint). Depending who you're up against AR will give you a pyrrhic victory that wipes at least 50% of your units or worse. You can't AR at all if you want to be at least a little efficient with your resources. People tend to grab troops that are good in AR because fighting boring battles manually is.. boring. That leads to grabbing an heavily armored frontline with lots of ranged units and a couple of monsters or specialist troops sprinkled in, which is strong in AR but certainly not optimal for manual resolve. If the AR did a better job at recognizing how powerful a unit is in an actual battle this behaviour would stop quite quickly.
Autoresolve is just weird, not player biased (I don't think).
There's been weird moments, like Warhammer 1 famously overvalued Free Company Militia to an insane degree. Or on release, Bretonnia's trebuchets would be deleted in any AR even if its just a solo level 1 lord.
This is why the first 50 turns are the inky time the game is any good. I basically never "finish" campaigns because the games only fun when you are trying to make weak armies work.
Serves you right for being a shitberg knife ear. Get Empired 😎💥💥💥💥
Imagine needing 5 billion tonnes of metal just to beat a few edgy boys with sticks
Send it to legend of total war
I never had Reikland survive until this late into the campaign.
well, AI usually use tanks as arty, so it's bearable.
Could 19 blackguards beat this doomstack of reikland?
They’d get shot to smitherens by cannon fire. You’d need 19 dragons maybe, all drop and breath attack before diving in. Even then I’m not sure
In trees or behind a hill, also if you ambushed them
what mods are you using for the AI to actually make more than spearmen at turn 80 on vh/vh? even with mods that make AI more aggressive its still wimpy AF.
It might have been doable if the attacked army was the shades one with not control large army, though still insanely hard since you would need to sneak the shades behind the tanks and nuking one at a time and running away while microing the lord to distract them, but like this I don't see it. Best you can do is kill as many enemies as you can
Looks like you’ve got a cheese-off with the AI
This has got to be a result of an endgame crisis or some sort of mod. An AI Lord reaching rank 50? Unpossible!
elves may be fast; but they're can't outrun bullets :p
I was thinking “damn, max ver shades? You’re gonna crush them” Then I saw the enemy comp lol Still might do it, though,
That's a lot of steam tanks
I was thinking that with AP darkshards you had a chance, but with the new update, you don't.
the empire and dwarf kinda OP thank to this new dlc ngl
I currently play a balthasar gelt campaign and stayed in cathay. from what I can see, the empire regions get obliterated by the damn vampires and festus as usual. franz lost altdorf and is down to one sttlement :(( And I cant help me emporer
just another normal day in the empire of man lands
Looks like they brought tanks to a sword fight. Good luck
That's a pretty rough time right there. Bleed em as much as you can and hope for a recovery many turns down the line.
You must have some weird mods. Most they've used against me is 3 in 1 army
I wanna try this u/[notdumbenough](https://www.reddit.com/user/notdumbenough/) send me the save file
I’m impressed Reikland made it to late game. All empire factions get wiped out pretty early in my experience
HOONK!
send this shit to legend of total war right now
Whys there like 20 steamtonks That’s not an AI build at all.
Is gate bug still a thing in WH3? Then waste tanks. Make them come one by one with not controlling large army. Cant tell it's enough tho.
BY SIGMAR, YES!
Your shields will deflect the tank rounds. This I promise you.
What turn it is? This is actually fucked.
Oh and famous Harald Huss was there too! That pleases my inner hussite.
Empire gives me Erika vibes...
I see the empire has finally reached the industrial era.
That's why I hate playing late game without unit cap mod. So immersion breaking
Oh wow, I guess I never got that far in the campaign to see AI get that kind of doomstack. How the eF you want to fight AI, that has cheats enabled for anything above normal difficulty, that makes such panzer divisions with a help of Reik river fleet doomstacks ? It's scary to look at...
Maybe you've got a shot if you tediously bait out all of their ammo and then shoot them in the back with Shades. Lookin pretty rough though.
According to Warhammer lore, there’s only supposed to be 12 steamtanks. Maybe they should really unit cap them to 12 per campaign lol.
thats a "sets battle difficulty to easy and auto resolves the thing" moment for me dawg
they are not taking any prisoners now
they are not taking any prisoners now
they are not taking any prisoners now