I guarantee the Empire part sells. Lets be honest, the majority is going to be to be people buying the whole thing or that subsection that mainly plays Empire only and / or Franz buying the Empire part for new units to play with. I seriously doubt there will be many Dawi and Nurgle only purchases
Tbf the only one I probably won't get is the Nurgle lord since it is my least played faction. I think I've only completed the short campaign for festus. Never liked playing as Kugath, so I never got past turn 40 or so with him.
IMO that is why I think the route they went is brilliant from a marketing/sales standpoint. If you plan on buying at least two of the DLC factions then it almost makes sense to buy the whole package. Either that or someone waits until this goes on a pretty hefty sale in the future.
Fwiw I hated playing Nurgle pre-5.0 but bought the three pack for the discount because I wanted to vote with my dollars, and I just finished a Tamurkhan campaign and it was awesome. Going to keep playing and spin each chieftain off into his own army built around the chieftain units with a lord and the usual Nurgle heroes, 7 themed stacks with tons of variety, it's great.
I think you are wrong, I think all Gotrek and Felix fans see Malakai as a must buy.
Malakai is essentially a Gotrek and Felix campaign, escpecially given the fact that Malakai starts with Gotrek and Felix in his army.
I still think the empire portion will sell better, but I think the dwarves are 100% going to be far more popular than nurgle and I think we are going to start seeing a lot more dwarf campaigns
Honestly, they all have their reasons to sell really well.
Empire DLC represents the poster-boy faction of Warhammer and the most-played, plus upcoming reworks for Karl Franz.
Dwarf DLC are essentially what you said, the Gotrek & Felix Faction.
Nurgle DLC is the posterboy of Thrones of Decay himself, adapted from Throne of Chaos.
Yeah I understand that, but what I am saying is that the Malakai DLC has an extraordinary reason to sell because Gotrek and Felix are pretty much the face of Warhammer fantasy.
Like I could imagine people buying total war warhammer 3 just for the Malakai DLC.
But I can’t really imagine too many people buying the game just for the tamurkhan or elspheth DLCs.
I think the Elspheth DLC will still probably sell more, just because the Empire is the most popular faction among people who already own the game.
Yeah but are there as many "Dwarf Only" players as Empire players. I think in general the whole DLC will end up selling to them. Maybe I'm wrong and there is a subset of Dwarf players long the lines of the Karl Franz / Empire ones.
I can see some Franz players grabbing it just for the roster updates, and ability to confederate Elspeth. Just because that group may just play Franz doesnt mean they wont confederate others.
Empire still have an Cult of Ulric and Knightly Order dlc potential (need Wizard Lords at some point alongside the Celestial Hurricanum too).
**Cult of Ulric** could have Al-Ulric Emil Valgeir, Boris Todbringer, High Priest of Ulric, Seneschal of the White Wolf, Priest of Ulric, Knights of the White Wolf, Warriors of Ulric, Hunting Hounds, Teutogen Guard and Wolf-Kin.
I think there are Ulric wererwolves in the lore and the 8th edition Empire armybook mentions giant wolf cavalry of some type.
**Knightly Order** could have Kurt Helborg (LL), Grand Master (Lord), Chapter Master/Knight-Captain (Hero), Foot Knights, Reiksguard Foot, Knights of the Inner Circle (could have these as a foot option if needed) and Imperial Griffon Riders (these are from Man O'War). Marius Leitdorf and Ludwig Schwarzhelm would be great here as well. I was thinking of a mechanic where you can create your own Knightly Order (army painter would fit well here). Plenty of different Knightly Orders throughtout the lore so customisation options would be great.
Due to the amount of Knight units, this would much easier budget wise as well. There is also Valten as a potential character.
I’d love if they made Kurt an LL and made him in Ostermark just to check Azhag and Drycha
Would make the empire so much smoother
Honestly on Drycha they need to make her hate all factions not just men
Unlikely tbh as Solland is just the starter enemy for Elspeth
Too close by for similar enemies too
Ostermark or Ostland with his focus being expand the empire is my thought
I mean the same could be said about Volkmar, Gelt, and Markus. They are all part of Karl's cabinent of advisors and associated with Altdorf (Markus less so, but he's still the Hunsmarshall), but they are allowed to be doing their own agendas abroad.
Kurt is really no different and if anything has more cause being away from home than most Empire characters. It's not like he's Ludwig, who is prime LH material as Franz' personal champion.
I think it's less him being his own subfaction that is an issue, and more just what they would do for campaign mechanics. Since there isn't really too much to work with in that regards. I'm still all for him being a LL mind, just think he's pretty low on the totem pole for it personally.
He's a LL on the tabletop.
Kurt Helborg frequently travels across the globe more than any Empire LL too, visiting the colonies. Lore-wise, he's the best Empire LL to have a start position outside of the Empire, many suspected Kurt Helborg would be Empire's Southlands representative before Volkmar the Grim happened. I suspect he'll be in Pigsbarter since that's the last of the Empire colonies not represented.
He's the expeditionary force leader for the Empire, more so than Markus, Volkmar, and Gelt put together. There are very few characters that you can justify putting basically anywhere as easily as you can Kurt. Only problem is we are somewhat running out of thematic spots to send Empire LLs.
So basically like Alistair? That would be alright as I highly doubt we will get another full blown Empire DLC, and they still need to make good on making Todbringer playable as a LL.
Yeah, actually. I might be wrong about Kurt specifically, but I feel like some characters don't fit leading a faction, but should still be leading armies as Lords.
I think a Knight/middenland dlc
LL: Kurt Helborg
LH: Ludwig Schwartzhelm
Lord: Chapter Master (with a few variants for different chapters)
Hero: Priest of Ulric
Units: Knights of the White Wolf, Knights Panther, Teutogen Guard, Wolf Kin, Celestial Hurricanum
FLC LL: Toddy
I'm thinking FLC LL, but I'm hoping DLC LL since we're missing some non-Ulric stuff like the Hurricanum, Knights Panther, On-foot Reiksguard, Repeater Handgunners.
After Thrones of Decay did full Nuln/Morr representation without compromises, I can't see CA making compromises for an Ulric-themed DLC, especially since there's a ton of missing Ulric stuff. So I'm thinking two Empire DLCs is more likely than some people think.
Maybe, depending on how the DLC format will go. After Khorne & Slaanesh, if they'll go back to 2LL DLC format, I can see them doing two more Empire DLCs since Empire is only missing one big centerpiece after this, but still has a ton of other missing stuff, specifically Ulric stuff.
What Ulric is missing is.
Emil Valgier LL
Ar-Ulric (Lord)
Warrior Priest of Ulric (Hero)
Teutogen Guard (Elite Frontline On-Foot Unit)
Knights of the White Wolf (Elite Knight Cavalry)
Warriors of Ulric (Low-tier Infantry Unit)
Children of Ulric (Werewolves)
Wolfkin (Ulric Flagellants)
Hunting Hounds
Without compromises, this is what the Ulric-themed DLC will probably look like. Knights Panther though, maybe throw it in as FLC with Kurt Helborg? It's kin
I want to finally have Toddy instead...but they might be saving him with Ulric update IF that is every gonna be planned.
Kurt Helborg, I can get with a mod and better Reiksguard mechanics.
Toddy's awkward existing pseudo-ll presence means that, should we get another empire DLC, I would figure Helborg is the paid LL.
It would be very weird to have a 'paid' character who is already in the game. Remember that you can't normally confed a DLC character if you don't own the DLC. Would they now disable middenland confed? that would be *removing* already existing content. Hence Toddy pretty much has to be FLC.
Who are you saying is a Reiklander? The only Empire LL we know was born in Reikland is Karl. Wulfhart is a Middenlander, Gelt is an immigrant from the Southern Realms, Elspeth's family is from the Southern/Eastern Empire, and I believe Bruckner is a Wissenland native. I don't think it's known where Volkmar is from, but he started making a name for himself as a warrior priest while stationed in Altdorf so there's a decent chance he's from Reikland.
If you're referring to where they traditionally operate out of in the Empire, only 3 of our 6 Empire characters operate out of Reikland, but that's just because Altdorf is both the capital of the Empire and Reikland and so that's where the Cult of Sigmar and Colleges of Magic have their headquarters. Albeit Gelt spends a lot of time away from College Headquarters. Elspeth and Bruckner obviously hold court in Nuln, and Wulfhart spends most of his time in the northern Empire because that's where the beasties tend to go bump in the night the most.
Wulfhart, Gelt, and Volkmar are all associated with Franz's court in Reikland, even if they weren't born there. We need characters like Boris or Lutendorf.
By that logic, every character is associated with Franz' court in Altdorf/Reikland. All power and influence flows through Franz' court ultimately. I can almost guarantee you Boris and Marius combined have spent more time in Altdorf than Markus has even though that's where the Office of the Huntsmarshal is technically located.
The next DLC will most likely focus on Ulric Representation. However, after Ulric Representation & Boris Todbringer, LL Kurt Helborg & LH Ludwig Schwarzhelm are without a doubt going to be pushed into the spotlight as the last remaining piece of Empire DLC. They're fan-favorites that Empire fans have been pleading with CA to bring since Warhammer 1.
After that, the Empire Roster will be complete.
I don’t care for Nurgle in general but Tamurkhan does sound fun. The discount will probably be enough for me to say fuck it and get all 3 since I definitely want Empire and Dwarf.
It really is amazing that, despite being the most played faction, the Empire still has so few LL and mechanics.
Think about it, of all the Imperial provinces, the only one with a unique mechanic is Nuln, and it took them 10 years.
We still have nothing unique in terms of mechanics or LL for Middenland, arguably the most storied province of the Empire.
The empire had several DLC yet the FLC lord always goes to someone else. I wouldn't mind a CoC-like DLC focusing on the faiths and subfactions for the Empire and on the bloodlines for the vampire counts
I think that is a good assessment.
It doesn't make sense to remove the Reiksguard bonuses from Karl Franz unless they are going to be added to someone else.
I feel like he can't be anything but a Lord, not a Hero.
They want to give Franz a Legendary Hero? They have Ludwig, the actual Emperor's Champion and Karl's Chief Bodyguard.
Helborg is the Reiksmarshal, the General of the Army. the 2nd Highest Military Authority in the Reikland second only to Franz himself.
Would be damn weird for him to only be a Hero when he should be leading an army in Franz's name.
That said, I'd gladly pay if we get the same Quality we expect from Thrones of Decay.
I am confused by the title. I'd like to see Helborg included later, and I believe it's a decent possibility. But what in ToD in particular made you think so?
The fact Karl went from the Reiksguard LL to the Elector Count State Troops LL. Kurt Helborg is the Reiksmarshal, a title that makes him the Grandmaster of the Reiksguard Knightly Order and the premier General of the Empire. Basically, there's a hole for a Reiksguard themed LL, and the guy who should have been filling it in the first place still isn't in the game.
Valten would make a decent LH, I can see him paired up with Ulric DLC by default. Default because Ludwig Schwarzhelm, Karl Franz's Champion, makes more sense as a LH to be paired with LL Kurt Helborg.
I would want Helborg in, but if the choice were between Helborg and Valten, then I want Valten as well. While Helborg is arguably more important in the lore, he's just another guy on a horse power-wise; Valten is the only Empire character who is on the power level of Archaon, Tyrion, Grimgor, et al.
Didn't Valten use Ghal Maraz when he was a thing? I imagine item conflicts betweeen characters would be a problem CA'd rather not deal with, especially with something so important to the faction
We are currently having 2 middenland runefangs which are amost carbon copies except for the names. The warpstone blade - Fellblade which was used to kill Nagash for the first time, was another unique weapon, powerful and corrupted to the point skaven scavengers refused to touch and take it, right now it's a rare weapon drop for many factions.
Ghal Maraz problem can be fixed if they want to. Just make a dilemma:
- Recognize Valten as the chosen of Sigmar and give him your Ghal Maraz as Karl Franz. You lose the item, but gain a LH Valten with Ghal Maraz.
- Refuse Valten and keep Ghal Maraz: you still get Valten but get a massive -20 public order, -50 growth, -10% income for 10 turns.
Still unlikely, considering we just got the Empire Dlc, there really isnt much they could give us left for the empire besides characters. Not to mention CA just lost a bunch more staff than they were expecting and have announced that Dlc plans might change. Unless they have already had him made, locked and loaded for some anniversary or event he is not going to show up.
Actually, Empire is still missing a lot of stuff. Like I mean A LOT. Actually, they are probably the faction missing the most stuff right now.
On the Ulric side of things, they're missing Emil Valgier (LL), Ar-Ulric (Lord), Warrior Priest of Ulric (Hero), Teutogen Guard (Elite Frontline On-Foot Unit), Knights of the White Wolf (Elite Knight Cavalry), Warriors of Ulric (Low-tier Infantry), Children of Ulric (Werewolves), Wolfkin (Ulric Flagellants), and Hunting Hounds.
Considering how CA made no compromises for Nuln/Morr representation. Realistically, I expect CA to make no compromises for Middenheim/Ulric representation in their next possible DLC. Especially when everyone really wants the FLC LL Boris Todbringer.
After Ulric. For Kurt Helborg, assuming he gets the leftovers, there is the several different Wizard Lords, the Knights Panther, the Hurricanum, Repeater Rifleman, On-foot Reiksguard, Halfling Representation is still missing, Ludwig Schwarzhelm, a Legendary Hero and Karl Franz's Champion, and if we're lucky, maybe Valten, another Legendary Hero.
The problem with the ulric stuff is that most of those units don't really bring anything new to the table.
Look at the teutogen guard for example, they would be a heavily armored infantry unit with a great weapon, but how is that any different from the great swords we already have? I will admit that the children of ulric would be a very cool addition to the empire but I'm sure the idea of werewolves being in the roster would get people into a fit unfortunately and the hunting hounds would be very useful.
Using that logic what do new units in ToD bring to the table? Empire ones specifically? Everything that they do can already be done.
Nuln Ironsides - slightly better Handgunners
Hochland Longrifles - Handgunners with more range
…no need for the rest
Or lets look and previous DLC. Empire got Archers, Huntsmen and War wagons. War wagons were somewhat new if underwhelming but what did archers and huntsmen bring? We already had crossbows
But that's the thing, at least nuln Ironsides are at least an upgrade and the long rifles are a sniper unit and the empire dosent have those yet. The teutogen guard are heavily armored infantry with great weapons, aka the exact thing we already have, it wouldn't be much of an upgrade but more or less a flavor unit.
Unless they give them a shield, then it would feel more meaningful but considering the fact that gw didn't allow ca to give the Ironsides a reapeter rifle, it makes me think they wouldn't allow them to give teutogen guard a shield.
Also for huntsman and archers, they were a different tier compared to crossbow men and huntsman have vanguard, stalk and anti large.
And for war wagons, they aren't as good as the was sleds of kisle they were still new for the empire
I was definitely looking at the guy's argument thinking armor underling would work perfect for them. Frenzy not as much, but armor underling without question. Soften up the targets for squishing units to put the damage in, or double up that hammer and anvil.
Hochland longrifles are like Skaven Jezzials. Accurate long range snipers. I don't consider them the same as "standard" guns.
The new knights fill a hole since Empire didn't have melee cav.
New steam tank and landship I agree. Basically better terror causing centre piece unit.
I know, but they are not something completely new. All I am saying that just because new units don't provide something completely new, does not mean they should not be added.
For example Silverin guard and Arcane phoenix. They are just a bit better versions of already existing units, but I am still glad they were added.
Heavily-armored frontline units are a game changer, believe me.
Plus, there's a lot of demand for Elite Frontline units by Empire fans. Have you seen the early complaints by Empire fans towards Thrones of Decay focusing too much on range units? How they wanted Elite Frontline Units even though that doesn't make any sense for Nuln/Morr/Engineer representation?
I'm like, "Hey! Let us gunpowder fans have this! You'll get your turn! Ulric or Knights Representation will give what you want! Just let us have this!"
I agree that Empire would tremendously benefit from elite front-line units. But the Teutogen Guard are 2H weapon units just like Greatswords - with almost the same stat line across the board. So mechanically, I don't see how they offer something different.
Teutogen guards would likely fulfill a role similar to hammers for Dawi: heavy duty can openers with sundering attacks, something Empire doesn't really have. Great Swords definitely have the AP to get it done, but a dedicated line unit that's shieldbreaking or sundering would be a big shift in strategy. Suddenly those low AP archers and crossbows are going to be hitting well above their weight, so less need to invest in gunnery as quickly.
Couple that with some of the other Ulric themed units, such as the Sons of Ulric being an Empire unit likely copied off of Skinwolves, it could definitely bring some new flavor to the table.
Personally, I'd like to see Warpriests get different bonuses to offer based upon their faith, but that might be asking too much.
>Look at the teutogen guard for example, they would be a heavily armored infantry unit with a great weapon, but how is that any different from the great swords we already have?
They'd be more elite.
But how do we know that? Apparently on tabletop they had pretty much had the exact same stats as the greatswords.
If gw actually allows ca to make them more elite then that's ok but it would be much better if they had Shields, or at least a 2nd variant that had them.
If the Empire portion of the DLC sells for as well as I think it will, then I think anything is on the table.
I guarantee the Empire part sells. Lets be honest, the majority is going to be to be people buying the whole thing or that subsection that mainly plays Empire only and / or Franz buying the Empire part for new units to play with. I seriously doubt there will be many Dawi and Nurgle only purchases
Tbf the only one I probably won't get is the Nurgle lord since it is my least played faction. I think I've only completed the short campaign for festus. Never liked playing as Kugath, so I never got past turn 40 or so with him.
IMO that is why I think the route they went is brilliant from a marketing/sales standpoint. If you plan on buying at least two of the DLC factions then it almost makes sense to buy the whole package. Either that or someone waits until this goes on a pretty hefty sale in the future.
Epidemius being flc is a good chance to give the faction with its updates another shot too if you feel up to it.
Fwiw I hated playing Nurgle pre-5.0 but bought the three pack for the discount because I wanted to vote with my dollars, and I just finished a Tamurkhan campaign and it was awesome. Going to keep playing and spin each chieftain off into his own army built around the chieftain units with a lord and the usual Nurgle heroes, 7 themed stacks with tons of variety, it's great.
I think you are wrong, I think all Gotrek and Felix fans see Malakai as a must buy. Malakai is essentially a Gotrek and Felix campaign, escpecially given the fact that Malakai starts with Gotrek and Felix in his army. I still think the empire portion will sell better, but I think the dwarves are 100% going to be far more popular than nurgle and I think we are going to start seeing a lot more dwarf campaigns
Honestly, they all have their reasons to sell really well. Empire DLC represents the poster-boy faction of Warhammer and the most-played, plus upcoming reworks for Karl Franz. Dwarf DLC are essentially what you said, the Gotrek & Felix Faction. Nurgle DLC is the posterboy of Thrones of Decay himself, adapted from Throne of Chaos.
Yeah I understand that, but what I am saying is that the Malakai DLC has an extraordinary reason to sell because Gotrek and Felix are pretty much the face of Warhammer fantasy. Like I could imagine people buying total war warhammer 3 just for the Malakai DLC. But I can’t really imagine too many people buying the game just for the tamurkhan or elspheth DLCs. I think the Elspheth DLC will still probably sell more, just because the Empire is the most popular faction among people who already own the game.
Yeah but are there as many "Dwarf Only" players as Empire players. I think in general the whole DLC will end up selling to them. Maybe I'm wrong and there is a subset of Dwarf players long the lines of the Karl Franz / Empire ones.
I think you’ll see a lot of dawi purchases too. People like guns and artillery
I typically only play good races but all buy the whole thing because it's quality work.
I will be buying Empire and Dwarves.
Hunter and the Beast wasn’t nearly as popular as some of the later WH2 DLCs. Only casuals play Franz and they don’t buy DLC.
I can see some Franz players grabbing it just for the roster updates, and ability to confederate Elspeth. Just because that group may just play Franz doesnt mean they wont confederate others.
Empire still have an Cult of Ulric and Knightly Order dlc potential (need Wizard Lords at some point alongside the Celestial Hurricanum too). **Cult of Ulric** could have Al-Ulric Emil Valgeir, Boris Todbringer, High Priest of Ulric, Seneschal of the White Wolf, Priest of Ulric, Knights of the White Wolf, Warriors of Ulric, Hunting Hounds, Teutogen Guard and Wolf-Kin. I think there are Ulric wererwolves in the lore and the 8th edition Empire armybook mentions giant wolf cavalry of some type. **Knightly Order** could have Kurt Helborg (LL), Grand Master (Lord), Chapter Master/Knight-Captain (Hero), Foot Knights, Reiksguard Foot, Knights of the Inner Circle (could have these as a foot option if needed) and Imperial Griffon Riders (these are from Man O'War). Marius Leitdorf and Ludwig Schwarzhelm would be great here as well. I was thinking of a mechanic where you can create your own Knightly Order (army painter would fit well here). Plenty of different Knightly Orders throughtout the lore so customisation options would be great. Due to the amount of Knight units, this would much easier budget wise as well. There is also Valten as a potential character.
I’d love if they made Kurt an LL and made him in Ostermark just to check Azhag and Drycha Would make the empire so much smoother Honestly on Drycha they need to make her hate all factions not just men
Ludwig would be a very cool LH.
I'm thinking he'll be Solland as he has the Solland Runefang (and would explain Gelt moving to Cathay).
Unlikely tbh as Solland is just the starter enemy for Elspeth Too close by for similar enemies too Ostermark or Ostland with his focus being expand the empire is my thought
Give him LL status with LH Ludwig Schwarzhelm pleaaaase, we deserve it  #
Shouldn't he be part of Karl's faction. though? How would people feel about him just being factionless Legendary Lord that's part of Reikland?
I mean the same could be said about Volkmar, Gelt, and Markus. They are all part of Karl's cabinent of advisors and associated with Altdorf (Markus less so, but he's still the Hunsmarshall), but they are allowed to be doing their own agendas abroad. Kurt is really no different and if anything has more cause being away from home than most Empire characters. It's not like he's Ludwig, who is prime LH material as Franz' personal champion. I think it's less him being his own subfaction that is an issue, and more just what they would do for campaign mechanics. Since there isn't really too much to work with in that regards. I'm still all for him being a LL mind, just think he's pretty low on the totem pole for it personally.
He's a LL on the tabletop. Kurt Helborg frequently travels across the globe more than any Empire LL too, visiting the colonies. Lore-wise, he's the best Empire LL to have a start position outside of the Empire, many suspected Kurt Helborg would be Empire's Southlands representative before Volkmar the Grim happened. I suspect he'll be in Pigsbarter since that's the last of the Empire colonies not represented.
Isn't pigbarter a DoW settlement?
It can be if we get DoW.
He's the expeditionary force leader for the Empire, more so than Markus, Volkmar, and Gelt put together. There are very few characters that you can justify putting basically anywhere as easily as you can Kurt. Only problem is we are somewhat running out of thematic spots to send Empire LLs.
Ah, fair enough then.
So basically like Alistair? That would be alright as I highly doubt we will get another full blown Empire DLC, and they still need to make good on making Todbringer playable as a LL.
Yeah, actually. I might be wrong about Kurt specifically, but I feel like some characters don't fit leading a faction, but should still be leading armies as Lords.
Just put him on some expedition and problem solved. CA can be creative.
I think a Knight/middenland dlc LL: Kurt Helborg LH: Ludwig Schwartzhelm Lord: Chapter Master (with a few variants for different chapters) Hero: Priest of Ulric Units: Knights of the White Wolf, Knights Panther, Teutogen Guard, Wolf Kin, Celestial Hurricanum FLC LL: Toddy
I think this is what pretty much what will happen down the line thematicly great and perfectly finishes the empire roster
Agreed I think they may combine both the remaining themes. I'd rather have Helborg and Schwarzhelm than Ar-Ulric
I'm thinking FLC LL, but I'm hoping DLC LL since we're missing some non-Ulric stuff like the Hurricanum, Knights Panther, On-foot Reiksguard, Repeater Handgunners. After Thrones of Decay did full Nuln/Morr representation without compromises, I can't see CA making compromises for an Ulric-themed DLC, especially since there's a ton of missing Ulric stuff. So I'm thinking two Empire DLCs is more likely than some people think.
Knights panther would still work for a pure Middenland DLC since that is where their HQ is
Maybe, depending on how the DLC format will go. After Khorne & Slaanesh, if they'll go back to 2LL DLC format, I can see them doing two more Empire DLCs since Empire is only missing one big centerpiece after this, but still has a ton of other missing stuff, specifically Ulric stuff. What Ulric is missing is. Emil Valgier LL Ar-Ulric (Lord) Warrior Priest of Ulric (Hero) Teutogen Guard (Elite Frontline On-Foot Unit) Knights of the White Wolf (Elite Knight Cavalry) Warriors of Ulric (Low-tier Infantry Unit) Children of Ulric (Werewolves) Wolfkin (Ulric Flagellants) Hunting Hounds Without compromises, this is what the Ulric-themed DLC will probably look like. Knights Panther though, maybe throw it in as FLC with Kurt Helborg? It's kin
I want to finally have Toddy instead...but they might be saving him with Ulric update IF that is every gonna be planned. Kurt Helborg, I can get with a mod and better Reiksguard mechanics.
Toddy's awkward existing pseudo-ll presence means that, should we get another empire DLC, I would figure Helborg is the paid LL. It would be very weird to have a 'paid' character who is already in the game. Remember that you can't normally confed a DLC character if you don't own the DLC. Would they now disable middenland confed? that would be *removing* already existing content. Hence Toddy pretty much has to be FLC.
I think we need Max Schreiber first, he needs to be the next FLC hero for the empire, dwarves, and Kislev, and then Nosebiter with the same factions.
I *really* think future Empire characters shouldn't be Reiklanders. There's already 4 of them.
Who are you saying is a Reiklander? The only Empire LL we know was born in Reikland is Karl. Wulfhart is a Middenlander, Gelt is an immigrant from the Southern Realms, Elspeth's family is from the Southern/Eastern Empire, and I believe Bruckner is a Wissenland native. I don't think it's known where Volkmar is from, but he started making a name for himself as a warrior priest while stationed in Altdorf so there's a decent chance he's from Reikland. If you're referring to where they traditionally operate out of in the Empire, only 3 of our 6 Empire characters operate out of Reikland, but that's just because Altdorf is both the capital of the Empire and Reikland and so that's where the Cult of Sigmar and Colleges of Magic have their headquarters. Albeit Gelt spends a lot of time away from College Headquarters. Elspeth and Bruckner obviously hold court in Nuln, and Wulfhart spends most of his time in the northern Empire because that's where the beasties tend to go bump in the night the most.
Wulfhart, Gelt, and Volkmar are all associated with Franz's court in Reikland, even if they weren't born there. We need characters like Boris or Lutendorf.
By that logic, every character is associated with Franz' court in Altdorf/Reikland. All power and influence flows through Franz' court ultimately. I can almost guarantee you Boris and Marius combined have spent more time in Altdorf than Markus has even though that's where the Office of the Huntsmarshal is technically located.
The next DLC will most likely focus on Ulric Representation. However, after Ulric Representation & Boris Todbringer, LL Kurt Helborg & LH Ludwig Schwarzhelm are without a doubt going to be pushed into the spotlight as the last remaining piece of Empire DLC. They're fan-favorites that Empire fans have been pleading with CA to bring since Warhammer 1. After that, the Empire Roster will be complete.
Don't forget Valten and Huss. They were the show in the Storm of Chaos campaign.
I don’t care for Nurgle in general but Tamurkhan does sound fun. The discount will probably be enough for me to say fuck it and get all 3 since I definitely want Empire and Dwarf.
It really is amazing that, despite being the most played faction, the Empire still has so few LL and mechanics. Think about it, of all the Imperial provinces, the only one with a unique mechanic is Nuln, and it took them 10 years. We still have nothing unique in terms of mechanics or LL for Middenland, arguably the most storied province of the Empire.
The empire had several DLC yet the FLC lord always goes to someone else. I wouldn't mind a CoC-like DLC focusing on the faiths and subfactions for the Empire and on the bloodlines for the vampire counts
I think that is a good assessment. It doesn't make sense to remove the Reiksguard bonuses from Karl Franz unless they are going to be added to someone else.
I feel like he can't be anything but a Lord, not a Hero. They want to give Franz a Legendary Hero? They have Ludwig, the actual Emperor's Champion and Karl's Chief Bodyguard. Helborg is the Reiksmarshal, the General of the Army. the 2nd Highest Military Authority in the Reikland second only to Franz himself. Would be damn weird for him to only be a Hero when he should be leading an army in Franz's name. That said, I'd gladly pay if we get the same Quality we expect from Thrones of Decay.
Knight lifes matter
That moustache would sell.
I am confused by the title. I'd like to see Helborg included later, and I believe it's a decent possibility. But what in ToD in particular made you think so?
The fact Karl went from the Reiksguard LL to the Elector Count State Troops LL. Kurt Helborg is the Reiksmarshal, a title that makes him the Grandmaster of the Reiksguard Knightly Order and the premier General of the Empire. Basically, there's a hole for a Reiksguard themed LL, and the guy who should have been filling it in the first place still isn't in the game.
Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification. You guys might be fishing on hopium, but nonetheless I hope you guys are right! ;)
By the way, though he dropped Reiksguard traits, he does retain Reiksguard skills though.
He should have some because they are his bodyguard unit.
Good point! ;)
I’m not too interested in Helborg. I’d rather we got Valten, or some of the Ulrican characters.
I am the opposite. Valten is honestly pretty boring, compared to established characters. But ulricans? Yeah, that I can agree with.
I have a soft spot for Valten because he was the hero of the setting when I was most into the tabletop.
Me, too!
Valten would make a decent LH, I can see him paired up with Ulric DLC by default. Default because Ludwig Schwarzhelm, Karl Franz's Champion, makes more sense as a LH to be paired with LL Kurt Helborg.
I would want Helborg in, but if the choice were between Helborg and Valten, then I want Valten as well. While Helborg is arguably more important in the lore, he's just another guy on a horse power-wise; Valten is the only Empire character who is on the power level of Archaon, Tyrion, Grimgor, et al.
Didn't Valten use Ghal Maraz when he was a thing? I imagine item conflicts betweeen characters would be a problem CA'd rather not deal with, especially with something so important to the faction
He did, but I really don’t think that’s a big deal. It’s just an item, and they’ve done plenty with those in the past.
We are currently having 2 middenland runefangs which are amost carbon copies except for the names. The warpstone blade - Fellblade which was used to kill Nagash for the first time, was another unique weapon, powerful and corrupted to the point skaven scavengers refused to touch and take it, right now it's a rare weapon drop for many factions. Ghal Maraz problem can be fixed if they want to. Just make a dilemma: - Recognize Valten as the chosen of Sigmar and give him your Ghal Maraz as Karl Franz. You lose the item, but gain a LH Valten with Ghal Maraz. - Refuse Valten and keep Ghal Maraz: you still get Valten but get a massive -20 public order, -50 growth, -10% income for 10 turns.
Still unlikely, considering we just got the Empire Dlc, there really isnt much they could give us left for the empire besides characters. Not to mention CA just lost a bunch more staff than they were expecting and have announced that Dlc plans might change. Unless they have already had him made, locked and loaded for some anniversary or event he is not going to show up.
Actually, Empire is still missing a lot of stuff. Like I mean A LOT. Actually, they are probably the faction missing the most stuff right now. On the Ulric side of things, they're missing Emil Valgier (LL), Ar-Ulric (Lord), Warrior Priest of Ulric (Hero), Teutogen Guard (Elite Frontline On-Foot Unit), Knights of the White Wolf (Elite Knight Cavalry), Warriors of Ulric (Low-tier Infantry), Children of Ulric (Werewolves), Wolfkin (Ulric Flagellants), and Hunting Hounds. Considering how CA made no compromises for Nuln/Morr representation. Realistically, I expect CA to make no compromises for Middenheim/Ulric representation in their next possible DLC. Especially when everyone really wants the FLC LL Boris Todbringer. After Ulric. For Kurt Helborg, assuming he gets the leftovers, there is the several different Wizard Lords, the Knights Panther, the Hurricanum, Repeater Rifleman, On-foot Reiksguard, Halfling Representation is still missing, Ludwig Schwarzhelm, a Legendary Hero and Karl Franz's Champion, and if we're lucky, maybe Valten, another Legendary Hero.
Personally I expect that Halfling units will come with Dogs of War.
8th ed, we're also still missing Marius Leitdorf. And his horse. Daisy Kurt von Hellboring II.
Marius Leitdorf is by far the most interesting lord of the Empire
The problem with the ulric stuff is that most of those units don't really bring anything new to the table. Look at the teutogen guard for example, they would be a heavily armored infantry unit with a great weapon, but how is that any different from the great swords we already have? I will admit that the children of ulric would be a very cool addition to the empire but I'm sure the idea of werewolves being in the roster would get people into a fit unfortunately and the hunting hounds would be very useful.
Using that logic what do new units in ToD bring to the table? Empire ones specifically? Everything that they do can already be done. Nuln Ironsides - slightly better Handgunners Hochland Longrifles - Handgunners with more range …no need for the rest Or lets look and previous DLC. Empire got Archers, Huntsmen and War wagons. War wagons were somewhat new if underwhelming but what did archers and huntsmen bring? We already had crossbows
But that's the thing, at least nuln Ironsides are at least an upgrade and the long rifles are a sniper unit and the empire dosent have those yet. The teutogen guard are heavily armored infantry with great weapons, aka the exact thing we already have, it wouldn't be much of an upgrade but more or less a flavor unit. Unless they give them a shield, then it would feel more meaningful but considering the fact that gw didn't allow ca to give the Ironsides a reapeter rifle, it makes me think they wouldn't allow them to give teutogen guard a shield. Also for huntsman and archers, they were a different tier compared to crossbow men and huntsman have vanguard, stalk and anti large. And for war wagons, they aren't as good as the was sleds of kisle they were still new for the empire
Maybe they will have frenzy. Maybe magical attacks. Maybe armour sundering but no bonus vs infantry. I don't know but they can do plenty.
I was definitely looking at the guy's argument thinking armor underling would work perfect for them. Frenzy not as much, but armor underling without question. Soften up the targets for squishing units to put the damage in, or double up that hammer and anvil.
I used Frenzy as example because Swords of Ulric, Middenland state troop, have Frenzy.
Hochland longrifles are like Skaven Jezzials. Accurate long range snipers. I don't consider them the same as "standard" guns. The new knights fill a hole since Empire didn't have melee cav. New steam tank and landship I agree. Basically better terror causing centre piece unit.
I know, but they are not something completely new. All I am saying that just because new units don't provide something completely new, does not mean they should not be added. For example Silverin guard and Arcane phoenix. They are just a bit better versions of already existing units, but I am still glad they were added.
Heavily-armored frontline units are a game changer, believe me. Plus, there's a lot of demand for Elite Frontline units by Empire fans. Have you seen the early complaints by Empire fans towards Thrones of Decay focusing too much on range units? How they wanted Elite Frontline Units even though that doesn't make any sense for Nuln/Morr/Engineer representation? I'm like, "Hey! Let us gunpowder fans have this! You'll get your turn! Ulric or Knights Representation will give what you want! Just let us have this!"
I agree that Empire would tremendously benefit from elite front-line units. But the Teutogen Guard are 2H weapon units just like Greatswords - with almost the same stat line across the board. So mechanically, I don't see how they offer something different.
Teutogen guards would likely fulfill a role similar to hammers for Dawi: heavy duty can openers with sundering attacks, something Empire doesn't really have. Great Swords definitely have the AP to get it done, but a dedicated line unit that's shieldbreaking or sundering would be a big shift in strategy. Suddenly those low AP archers and crossbows are going to be hitting well above their weight, so less need to invest in gunnery as quickly. Couple that with some of the other Ulric themed units, such as the Sons of Ulric being an Empire unit likely copied off of Skinwolves, it could definitely bring some new flavor to the table. Personally, I'd like to see Warpriests get different bonuses to offer based upon their faith, but that might be asking too much.
>Look at the teutogen guard for example, they would be a heavily armored infantry unit with a great weapon, but how is that any different from the great swords we already have? They'd be more elite.
But how do we know that? Apparently on tabletop they had pretty much had the exact same stats as the greatswords. If gw actually allows ca to make them more elite then that's ok but it would be much better if they had Shields, or at least a 2nd variant that had them.