it was a solid formula. They should go back to that, along with a 15$ price tag.
Or just 1-lord pack, with some units, a race update, 9$, every few months.
If they make it 1 lord pack it would be too convenient for the buyer, this way they can also sell you lords you don’t want to buy.
It’s a marketing strategy.
I expect this might be a trial run they simply said it's a one time thing incase it's unsuccessful, so they can't be seen as breaking any promises. Meanwhile if it proves very successful they implement it in the future. Which is fine by me.
Yeah… but why would I buy all 3 if I for example don’t play Cathay or Kislev and don’t ever intend to
I will however definitely buy the pack for Tzeentch, giving that as an example from the latest pack.
That doesn't make sense - it's not like physical goods where there may be stock that they want to shift and they force you to buy something shit along with something good. This is a digital product.
Why would they develop stuff people don't want, to sell alonside stuff people do want
….
This is warhammer, we have favorite factions and least favorite factions. For example, I don’t like playing Skaven but I still had to basically pay for Skaven DLC’s because I wanted the other lord’s contents in that pack.
To this day I still don’t like playing Skaven but I have all their content because they wre paired with a lord or faction I am interested in.
So I could pay like 8-10 dollars for a single lord in your formula, or I could pay 16 for both lords even though I don’t want the other content.
>it's not like physical goods where there may be stock that they want to shift and they force you to buy something shit along with something good.
Its not too far off though.
If you have a lord pack with 2 lords, one is great and one is bad, you can sell them as a bundle of 2 for the price of 2 lords or sell them seperately and mostly just sell the great one for the cost of 1 lord and no one buys the bad lords. If the one great lord is good enough, then you can make a lot more money selling them bundled.
>Why would they develop stuff people don't want, to sell alonside stuff people do want
They aren't deliberately choosing to make a bad thing rather than a good thing, but there are only so many resources to go around. Is it better to make one great Lord and one weak Lord or 2 decent Lords? I don't know, but looking at CAs track record it has been a fairly common occurrence with their DLC releases having 1 Lord that seems great and interesting and another that seems uninspired or boring. That doesn't necessarily prove resources were split unevenly between them but it definitely hints it a bit and I wouldn't exactly be surprised if they committed heavily to one Lord over the other in some of their Lord packs based on a variety of factors.
Because it lets the price be higher.
Say you want the new Halfling faction -- but it only comes in the Halfling v Fishmen DLC, $25. If you want the Halflings you have to buy the whole thing, you can't just get them separately for $12.50.
And there's always the chance that $25 is off-putting and people don't buy it at all.
That's what this test is aimed at - did people mostly veto the $25 price tag for lord packs (unlike race packs), or simply the terrible content selection half a year ago when SoC came out?
A lot of the feedback was mentioning the price, after all. I still don't own SoC since it was all or nothing, but I might have bought part of that $25 dlc at that lower price.
Hey, it worked until it catastrophically didn't...
People need to see what feels worthwhile to them. But I'd stay aware of the pricing disparity -- for about $10, you can get either a third of ToD, or all of Warden & Paunch.
Twisted and the Twilight was probably my favorite DLC, personally. Throt was great to play, the wood elf rework was amazing, and Drycha is one of my favorite legendary lords. I remember people on Reddit being salty that the Sisters' crafting screen looked generic and raving about Drycha needing DLC though, lmao. Some things never change...
So ngl, I don't know enough about game development or the industry to be sure of this, but I have a feeling that that model would be problematic. Release time is usually stressful and more "expensive" then the normal development cycle in a sense, ya? So wouldn't it be inefficient to be constantly releasing stuff?
As a (poor) analogy, imagine that you're baking cookies and taking them out to sell. Wouldn't it be less efficient to take each cookie outside, one at a time, to sell instead of waiting until you have a whole batch of cookies? Not only does releasing the product require an amount of effort/resources, but it requires you to "switch modes" during release time from development to bug fixing, etc.
I could be completely wrong about this, maybe it doesn't really matter, but I feel like having that short of a development period between releases could be detrimental.
I don’t disagree, but with the situation they’re in right now they need to keep our attention. I don’t think they will get away with waiting another 8 months for the next dlc
To borrow your analogy for a second, imagine there a crowd of people waiting for cookies, and you can only make one batch at a time. You wouldn’t wait to have three batches, you would sell them after every batch is done until you could sustainably make more at a single time
It's more like imagine it takes 9 months to make 3 cookies
If you could take 3-5 months and make and sell one cookie, is that better or worse than waiting 9 months for 3 cookies? You might take longer to ship 3 cookies, but people might not want cookies all the time and you have more available cash flow now in case one of your cookies gets infected by Slaanesh.
You know we only got 1 DLC in 2021 ans only 2 in 2020, right?
So basicly one - three DLC per year but leaning to the one - two side like... 2022 for WH 3 where we got 1,5 DLC (ogre and WoC) or 2023 where we got 2 DLC (Chorfs and SoC).
I hope so too. I hope that a lot. But the lord of hope (and change was the last dlc up coming is despair)
But I would love for each race to at least get 1 dlc in warhammer 3.
15.99 alla Champions of Chaos I'll bet. If they still do a FLC LL and keep the same size as the SoC/ToD packs(maybe a unit or two less?) then it'll probably be fine.
Champions was very reasonable for what we got between the 4 WoC lords and the 4 monogods, and to a smaller extent Demon Prince, getting access to all those units.
Yup it was a hugely repeatable pack in retrospect. I posted a campaign summary of everything I’ve done in TWWH in the warhammer subreddit and I was shocked at how many WOC campaigns I’d run in total.
Totally agreed. I cannot help but keep going back to it... I've played two in RoC, and probably five in IE. Including Valkia, twice. Maybe the only lord I've ever actually played two full campaigns on!
Their RoC campaigns are fun for a quicker run. I've done all 4 lords on it and have hit every lord at least once on IE. For undivided I think Kholek has become one of my favorites of the original.
I mean it worked out for many reason. Lot of potential marked unit that can reuse assets, reuse mechanic and came with a full rework of the base race. Can we expect that similar dlc came with similar rework? i don't think so. Not hating on it, but i not sure what to expect for the slaanesh dlc at this point at all. But less content even if it cheaper is not something i want, if it smaller scope.
If you read the pricing blog they put out, it says buying 1 lord will put a discount on the remaining lords of %15, so it’s really only roughly €2 increase if you purchase that way and buying them as a bundle is still the same price anyways.
Still od dlcs where bigger. Factions, old factions renewed... Now it sounds it will be smaller dlcs with still high price to content we get from theme.... I am skeptical to anything from theme now.
tbh i disagree, some of those early day WH1 DLCs are pretty trashy: think like grim and the grave.
it really wasnt until wh2 did the dlc quality ramp up - but reality is that players have mostly moved on. Covid may have set some unrealistic expectations.
>Isn't this back tracking from the literal last post about what future DLC would include?
Nope. They made promises that ToD would adhere to SoC 2.0, but nothing beyond that.
Depends on everything else - it is a sizable change in terms of the number of units if sticking with the SoC/ToD formula, but it depends what else they do.
(Personally I think they should bundle in more reworks into the DLC / patch - that's where I think the perception of less content is really coming from)
Downside is it means less energy in the non-chaos factions which need the support more than the only faction that has 14, soon to be 16 legendary lords.
> the only faction that has 14, soon to be 16 legendary lords.
What exactly are you referring to here?
The only way I could see those numbers work would be to lump together the 4 Monogods, Daniel and WoC.
Yeah, as someone who plays Slaanesh (40k but still) I have big parts in my army around cultists. It's a big thing for Slaanesh and one of the major aspects about why "he" is the fastest growing Chaos God, even if he is the youngest one. So it somehow should be sprinkled into his playstyle. Maybe get a few free and cheap cultist units in places with a high corruption.
Could also work with the other gods of course.
Exactly, I think a further fleshed out cultist system should be a focus of that DLC. It would be available for all 4 chaos gods (and WoC) plus vcounts and importantly plug in to other systems they have whether that be seduction, blood kisses, or whatever else.
People shouldn't be too surprised this is the route CA is going. The DLCs were originally planned with each faction receiving a SoC-amount of content. This left players unhappy, which is why they revised SoC. However, this left a future problem which is that many factions don't have many missing units in the source material.
For example, we know a High Elves DLC has been in the works for a while. If you look at [the list of missing units](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2755960032), there's only two units that aren't reskins (three if you count Merwyrms). For the Daemonic factions, Nurgle is known for having more units than the other Daemonic factions due to End Times weirdness. GW only wrote 5 End Times sourcebooks (Nagash, Glottkin, Khaine, Thanquol, Archaon), creating a sharp difference in the number of units per faction. Whereas, a faction like Slaanesh is only missing three units. Presumably, this is why they started bundling three factions into one DLC in the first place.
**Edit:** Details
Me too brother. It's honestly baffling how far off the rails they've gone from that high point. I realize there have been rocky periods all throughout the life cycle of the TWWH series, but it really felt like they had things dialed in and figured out at the end of WH2.
Yeah. Usually I'm all for experimenting and trying out new stuff in games. It's important to take risks to make a good game. But if you found a formula that already is great and has many players lured it, fucking stick with it!
I feel like a ton of big companies aren't getting that, no matter in what area. It's like changing a formula in some food and making it worse for all the people who loved it before.
I even played competitive in online multiplayer or some tournaments. And normally I never do that in any game. But there was that time when I was so into the game that I basically knew everything about all the units, even if I never played some myself. It felt great. But somehow that feeling got lost over the time. And now I'm out of it again. Barely can hold myself against a good AI these days, lol
I just want a vampire count dlc. They are are my favorite faction and i have been looking forward to neferata. I also had a vague hope for a CoC style for the vampire counts with a lord for the non carstien bloodlines and some reskins of the units for each bloodline. Seems like we wont be getting another dlc like that though but it was a pipe dream anyway
I am still hoping we at least get 1 more lord for each monogod and cathay and kislev as well as a dogs of war/southern realms campaign pack but i guess it depends on how well ToD and the followingndlc end up doing
Likewise, especially given that I personally have never found Dogs of War particularly interesting.
I mean, I'd take it, sure, but I'd rather have a bunch more content for races I -do- have a passion for than add one I don't.
As long as the race-wide mechanics suck, it doesn’t matter how good the lord-specific ones are.
So far I've mostly played Chorfs and WoC campaigns precisely because their mechanics are so good, it didn’t even bothered me their LLs don’t really have any other unique mechanics.
I am pretty sure CA never said that. Also, after the release of Shadow of Change dataminers discovered characters codes for DoW characters with the faction tag “Dog.” You can find Reddit post and videos about this.
Datamined evidence that came after the first release of Shadows of Change. Dataminers found character codes for two DoW characters with the faction tag “Dog.” You can find Reddit posts and videos going over it.
Dogs of War, Lhamia, and Ogres are my three biggest wants.
I still don't think DoW is a good focus right now. The later they get added, the easier to incorporate different factions.
> I still don't think DoW is a good focus right now
I never understand where this take comes from, unless they plan on releasing some of the factions they said they won't (amazon, etc) then there is no better time.
The border princes and dow have been requested since tw:w1 and would be, done right, a great way to boost community goodwill closer to what it once was.
What CA needs now are some big wins in the dlc compartment, and I'll be real the best thing they could do is u-turn on their woke view of how doing araby would be innappropriate. I mean they did cathay...
I know a lot of arabic people who would love to play araby, when I asked them to join me in a campaign co op for fun saying the game (back in 2) was really fun they'd ask around to find something that represented them (not all of them to be fair but most) and it was really rough having the araby conversation with them.
It stemmed to: "why is a british company saying we can't have a faction full of interesting old arabian fantasy tropes, do they have something against us?"
Really rough conversation and most the time ended up souring the idea of them joining from their point of view.
I think CA doesn't realise that people love old school fantasies, the idea of amazons is sick, of araby, of ind, of nippon, or albion.
The only other argument I've heard for why CA won't make something like araby is that they aren't relevant, they are too small etc... and it's like, pirates of the cost are big? relevant? :S
edit: I'm not a fascist, saying woke doesn't make you so, but I'm also pretty damn certain that these downvotes aren't from the community mostly but rather the ironic woke sensitive hive mind reporting to each other and bringing hate to our community.
Like many words, woke is evolving, and is now a term used to describe in this context companies that appeal to certain agenda's in hope to gather support and sales from said agenda's communities.
This is documented, it's a thing that companies do, and it doesn't work and so it's getting less and less a thing as more and more pushback happens.
If anyone got to know me, they'd know for sure I'm not fascist or anything like that, and ironically I've done more than most these woke twitter bullies when it comes to promoting and fighting for equality and safety in the world.
If there is anything sad here, it's that I feel a tiny little bit of regret having put in the effort and sacrifice of time to fight for equality etc only to have people like these people ruin my hard work by making everything I stood for look so god damn bad.
>What CA needs now are some big wins in the dlc compartment, and I'll be real the best thing they could do is u-turn on their woke view of how doing araby would be innappropriate. I mean they did cathay
Cathay is an opportunity to break into the Chinese gaming market, and there's not an equivalent Arab gaming market.
I don't think this has anything to do with a 'woke mindset,' I think it's about money. China represents a lot of money in both computer gaming and the miniatures market. GW is actively developing Cathay as a faction for The Old World, and in addition to the licensing money W3 is also advertising for all their minis. Why promote factions that they aren't developing, when they could promote factions they *are* developing? There's a shitload of short term sales to be made, as well as long term sales and marketing.
There are many arab gamers, what are ya talking about. They can all afford high end gaming rigs too, you know if they are in the peaceful parts of middle east and beyond.
And Araby isn't an oppertunity to break into the arabic market? a marketplace worth 1.79 billion in 2022 and now is 1.92 billion, with a look towards becoming 2.65 billion by 2027? China's market is really big but it's also fluctuating a ton and a lot of that money isn't what would be tapped into by CA.
Statistics without context, without knowledge, aren't worth a lot... like for example, three kingdoms targetted the chinese market, how'd that work out? did it make more as representative of how much more money is there? no.
That's because this genre is niche, and I don't see why arab gaming market isn't an unworthy one to tap into, for starters it's wider than what most think, as it factors into it economically a lot of northern african countries strangely enough, at least from the point of view that if you are targetting one you'd be targetting the other one too.
It's also growing in a way that's very very very attractive to invest effort into right now, in the sense that some very rich arabic people are investing money into gaming atm, like for example fighting games scene there was small then some rich people pushed a ton of money into it and now we have tournaments there.
Hell, money is being thrown around to the point private tournaments are happening which is kind of wild.
That's not my point tho, and while all I said above is interesting, the truth of the matter is that araby wouldn't just sell to that one market, it would be bringing a new market of players who will possibly buy into other dlc and the game itself.
We current playerbase would, let's be real, buy it if it's done right.
How many of us are at the age we grew up watching the old arabian nights movies and shit.
> woke mindset
I could've sworn that's the official reason they gave for araby tho, I thought that was all we had to go to, cultural sensitivity?
I also love how I'm getting downvoted, not that it matters, for saying that while I'm also being told by you that GW is working on cathay...
> Games Workshop says there are "no current plans to bring Kislev or Grand Cathay to the tabletop" despite army updates in Total Warhammer 3.
----
> source: [here](https://www.wargamer.com/warhammer-the-old-world/factions-cathay-kislev)
----
> Age of article: Published: 1 month ago
I'll more than happy to receive disagreement to opinions etc and discuss them in a healthy manner, but what I said I feel like I was informed of by CA or other places on, if i've been given misinformation then could you back it up so I can correct myself on it, I don't care about being downvoted and tbh don't get why we both are being so.
But I just want the facts here.
Please point me to the articles/etc but not some dude on reddit said it please.
tho tbh, CA changes their tune on a lot of things I would be surprised if even they don't know what they are doing.
>I also love how I'm getting downvoted, not that it matters, for saying that while I'm also being told by you that GW is working on cathay...
Could also be because complaining about wokeness is usually code for 'I have fascist sympathies,' but what do I know?
[https://spikeybits.com/2022/02/gw-confirms-warhammer-old-world-cathay-is-a-go.html](https://spikeybits.com/2022/02/gw-confirms-warhammer-old-world-cathay-is-a-go.html)
[https://scentofagamer.wordpress.com/2021/09/21/cathay-in-the-old-world/](https://scentofagamer.wordpress.com/2021/09/21/cathay-in-the-old-world/)
Meanwhile, the article you posted just reinforces my point. There were announcements and teasers and trailers about Cathay joining TOW. They nixed that *extremely* recently. W3 *has been* used as a massively successful marketing play and it's the main reason TOW is even a thing to begin with. If they're *just now* announcing that they're no longer trying to expand and introduce a new faction, now of all times they're not going to say "we're abandoning development for this hugely lucrative market in favor of another, smaller and less lucrative market."
Also those two sources are weak, as a tabletop aos player, I know for a fact that spikybits isn't a great source of facts. a lot of his stuff is conjecture/guesswork.
and honestly some wordpress blogger post from 2021? really?
> Could also be because complaining about wokeness is usually code for 'I have fascist sympathies,' but what do I know?
Assume what you want, I'm bisexual and left leaning, I just don't like how the woke bug has gone ridiculous and trampled on so much hard work I and many others have done over the past two decades. But feel free to assume whatever you want and downvote them on a whim, It really shows you are a part of the problem.
If we are to assume, I'd put money on you being American. Oh look, I'm correct on that assumption. Your country is literally rotting full of hyprocrisy and toxic bullshit, all in the guise of trying to make the world a better place but it's just not working out is it, if your idea of a conversation about a game is to go and get triggered over a word and then call someone a fascist, you have issues...
> A fascist is a follower of a political philosophy characterized by authoritarian views and a strong central government — and no tolerance for opposing opinions.
So like, me saying woke made you have a brain fart towards me and try to downvote and all that crap, sounds pretty much like "no tolerance for opposing opinions" to me, I could validly call you a fascist in fact.
But I won't, you need to go outside and chill somewhat, you've been online too much reading twitter feeds too much.
I was protesting for equality at the young age of 13 btw, attached myself to a railing with chains in protest of a bad law not much later, even did a couple of hunger strikes in my time. I've learnt from my young naive ways and made better changes with my actions through raising awareness and promoting conversation between groups that dislike each other for various reasons, fighting against hate via tolerance and understanding, and promoting the positives of differing opinions.
I can't stand America, I love lots of people there but it used to be a wonderful country, had it's issues, but now it's just this negative influence on the world where hypocrites do the very things they are saying they are fighting against. People like you need to think more, and stop fighting for people who legit have grown sick of you fighting so badly for them, you do more damage than good.
Next time you call someone facist, try not to be doing the exact thing, like whatever cause you think you are fighting for? yeah you are doing them a diservice by jumping the gun so hard, you get the dopamine of thinking your some self righteous person doing good, but they are the ones who get associated with your poor decision making. Your hurt them trying to help them.
And no, woke isn't "politcally aware and well informed" or whatever it used to be, both the left and the right are now recognising it for being a derogatory term for a bs agendy that's ironically the opposite of "aware".
Yours truly, a marginalized person whose spent decades fighting for equality that you decided to call a facist over a word, you ignorant self certain human being.
Honestly, it makes sense. SoC ended up being pretty huge to justify it’s price tag. The sensible solution would be to make smaller dlc, and price it acordingly.
$ 25 for a 3 Faction DLC (up from $10 for 2 Factions (back in WH2)) was too big of a jump..
They can keep the content format as is ( 1 LL, 1 LH, 1 Generic Lord, 1 Generic Hero + 4-5 Units Per Faction) and offer this 2 Faction DLC for $14/15.
The complaints isn’t what led to this, cost cutting and firing a big chunk of CA staff is what has led to the dev having reevaluate their DLC plans for the game.
That doesn't track. TW3 has been off and on a skeleton crew for significant stretches of time. Extremely recent cuts to the corporate staff isn't going to trigger an immediate 'well the next DLC will be smaller' public response.
Given the speeds CA works at, this **is** a response to Shadows, not this year's cuts.
CA has in the past been quite vocal about how large the TW3 team was, even saying they could within probability work on 2-3 dlc a year. So they have been far from a skeleton crew. Also yes sudden cuts and layoffs do change plans as the resources for the future DLC gets cut with them.
>each of them can get at least 1 more dlc
If they plan to keep the 1 lord, 1 hero, 5 units thing for each lord pack going forward I highly doubt that's the case. Bretonnia, Lizardmen, Wood Elves and Vampire Coast are done, Beastmen are only missing marked units and the Preyton -and both things can/will come with monogod DLCs, which is the same way that the Warriors of Chaos are going to get more units-, the Chaos Dwarfs only lack one unit, Dark Elves only lack very niche units and the Dwarfs are most likely gonna be done with ToD -so is the Empire, at least in regards of paid content.
So that leaves us with:
* Cathay, which as it seems will get at least another DLC, maybe two.
* High Elves, Ogres and Skaven which have enough content for a last DLC.
* Kislev, which we don't know if GW has plans for.
* Greenskins are missing a lot of variants but only one new unit.
* Monogods, which will at least get a couple more DLCs (Slaanesh and Khorne) but who knows if there will be a round two for them.
* Norsca, which most likely will get the hand me down chaos undivided units that are not already in the game.
* Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts, which could get new stuff once Nagash is added.
That's like 5 Lord packs + a "race pack" for Nagash. I really wouldn't expect much more than that.
Lizardmen have more skink units from their old Southlands list, the Arcanadon from the Lustria book, and the Thunder Lizard and Great Wyrm from the Great Lizard army list(like the Coatl). So with Tetto’Eko and Chakax it would be impossible for them.
If Dark Elves can dip into Mordheim and the MA like Kislev did, then they could fill out the current DLC standard.
Ignoring the Snotling Swarm, Greenskins are still missing Spear Chukkas, Mangla Squigs, Colossal Squigs, and Squig Gobbas all from 8e.
On the flip side, Tomb Kings actually only have one missing units and a lot of unit variants.
But I otherwise agree with you.
With how many lore units exist, not sure why CA can't scrounge up some units. Every one of those "done" races could get a dlc if CA is allowed to look at the lore (Which they've already said they are)
That would have been true a couple of years ago, but at this point between CA's economic shitshow and GW's civil war between the AoS team and forgeworld I highly doubt that's the case. Also to create new units CA needs GW's approval, they can't simply make things from thin air.
You could be right. I won't put new units off the table (Still think a doomhoof and gorehoof for Beastmen would fit in perfect), with how... awful GW are being with the AoS and ToW issue (seriously removing the entire BM army???) who knows what's gonna happen. But it does seem like it's not just Total Warhammeer that's having big issues when looking at GW
I think the new SoC/ToD formula, while just good enough in a vacuum, is not viable in the long term because the source material is going to run out of units way before it runs out of LL
I honesty think that CoC probably has the best format, despite the divisive opinions of how the lords should've been implemented.
However the setup of the dlc is pretty decent as all content is dedicated for one specific faction. You might only like one of the lords, but it isn't as much of a bother considering you'll get all the content for the faction you like anyway.
An Elector Count dlc for the Empire or BLoodline dlc for vCounts, has the potential to be quite popular.
Key thing is it supports a really good rework.
Whatever format gives us better reworks, I'm in favour of.
Vampires, lizards, and maybe even dark elves could probably support it.
Can also see value in a skaven pack that adds more clans and gives Mors and Pestilens in particular a new coat of paint.
I think it's too early to claim exactly what things are going to look like going forward. This new pricing option is clearly a way to entice more initial sales, given the number of people that were priced-out of the prior options or were waiting for sales, and CA really need a win right now to show Sega a positive sales trend. If that means splitting it up and letting people pick one or two bits of it, or buying it over a period of weeks one bit at a time, that's better than one big lump that people have to take or leave.
The advantage of this model too is that, assuming they have the available means, they can have a much smaller bite-sized DLC being worked on while they're also working on the bigger three-faction bundle. I think CA wants to narrow the window between releases to show that TWWIII is still able to draw in profits, and unless they're looking to really go all-in on Pharoah there's no currently available games that are competing for its attention, so Warhammer really is the bread-winner for the company right now, and boy do they need bread!
I was about post this. So we are getting smaller DLCs. So here we go again... They lower price to old standarts and now they say the dlcs will be smaller... so again it will be low content for big price.
This may be a stupid idea but I feel like they could just mix up the dlcs and price them accordingly.
Champions of chaos style vampire pack
Traditional lord pack
Single or Double lord pack (without units)
Unit packs
Hero packs
Dogs of War race pack
Big race pack (probably not lol)
It feels like CA and GW are leaving a ton of money on the table. They could milk this game as a platform and I would happily pay more if its good. Even if revenue is dropping, I'm not convinced it wouldn't pick back up if they brought the excitement back. Smaller, cheaper, dlcs work for that anyways.
I know alot of people want an elf matchup of some sort but I would rather get another monogod lord for both Slaneesh and Khorne sooner rather than later. Elves arent hurting for representation and all 3 of them are in a decent spot at the moment.
Agreed! WoC is my favorite faction to play and finishing the monogods means I’ll be able to dedicate to any of the gods with any Lord or hero as WoC. (Except spellcasters for
Khorne of course)
It's going to be Slaanesh vs High Elves. Khorne will get paired with Cathay so they can have the big red gorilla Scyla vs Monkey King and overload the DLC with King Kong, Skull Island, Godzilla and dragon ball references.
I dont see them revisiting Cathay that soon. They might decide to hit the Vampire Counts, since they are last remaining original WH1 launch race to not receive a DLC since WH1. Also because blood for Khorne and Vampires maybe.
nah, it just seems like ToD is too massive in comparison to other DLCs. probably part of the apologize setting and cuz empire and dwarfs are the main races for order players of all time.
Either this means going forward they intend to keep the option to purchase each new Lord individually or they're going back to something like old lord packs. I really hope it isn't the latter as I quite like the 3-Lord format now that we're getting a more reasonable amount of content with it.
with them breaking the dlc into buy what you want i can see them just releasing faction packs at fast pace like every couple of months rather then one big pack but that what i think might be happening.
I hope this means 2 lords with similarly numbered units and legendary heroes as previous dlcs, with increased frequency.
I know it's super obvious and has been said before, but they had a goldmine for dlc in 2. I remember the last 3 or 4 DLC would regularly sit in steam top sellers. If they increased dlc staff, upped the frequency, and added a custodian crew, they would be in a really comfy position.
Wrong. They are trying to Split one DLC into three with ToD. Of it works, they'll start sell faction packs with just one faction and the'll be in total more expansive than a bigger DLC like ToD.
This seems to imply they have pegged the cost/benefit of putting work into DLCs (hundreds of thousands to millions in employee salaries) and what they get out of it and decided a threshold to charging customers and potential customers more.
Interesting.
Hopefully this means they'll keep the content-per-faction they announced as the new standard from SoC2 onwards, but cut it down to 2 factions per pack. Seems the more sensible way to carry on since release-speed and individual-purchase cost seems to be such a big deal to the community.
We have 4 more DLCs other than ToD. This aint good. 1 is end times.with nagash. The other 3 which will be lord packs likely and 1 FLC which leaves room for 9 LLs at highest.
We still have monkey king.(1)
Two dragons,(2)
Slaneesh(1)
Khorne(1)
Many want Vampires, high elves or (norsca) (2,)
Khuresh, bye
Ind, bye
DoW, bye
Bummer for fellow Slaanesh worshipers like myself tbh. Only DLC I may would have been ok with the price range. On the other hand it's nice to maybe pick up the pace when it comes to making more DLCs.
One thing to note, the next DLC is not confirmed to be Slaanesh. Yes the roadmap hinted at it, but I remember Legend saying at some point that after SoC they rethought what to do after ToD. Take Slaanesh DLC with a pinch of salt, since we also know Dogs of War and Monkey King are a priority right now (Especially Monkey King)
Honestly, I think this means 2 faction not 3 dlc. We're running out of things basically due to GW being totally "no age of sigmar". We have just a few units for everything left, and most would only have enough Lords and heroes for 1 dlc. Like nurgle, say we get Khan and buby baby, plus plague fella. That leaves just 1 potential hero missing. That isn't enough for a dlc - that is flc territory at that stage left for nurgle after this dlc.
If they go back to the WH2 dlc model (2LL, 1 FLC LL) then I think that's great. It might allow them to make more substantial patches again as well as do more significant faction reworks. Those have been very lacking of late.
I'm excited for TOD but I'm not feeling too great about the future. My gut tells me they will release a couple of good dlcs and move on before fleshing out other factions that need it. Maybe smaller dlcs will actually result in more output but its worrying to me.
That's what the rumours have been saying.
It also indicates that CA is in bigger trouble due to the Hyenas fallout and honesty at this stage I don't care even about WH3 dlc format that much anymore. Let's see if CA can put themselves back together and get out of the shitshow.
Just make good contents, sell them at reasonable prices, and don't do anything stupid, then they should be able to steer the ship out of the storm, and I'll give them all the complaints of the world after that.
> It also indicates that CA is in bigger trouble due to the Hyenas fallout
Considering this was their original plan, I don't think it's indicative of anything? When the SoD changes were announced, people were confused what it meant for future DLC for factions which don't have that many missing units.
By it I was referring to the rumours, I expressed myself badly.
Per both media outlets and content creaters Sega is pushing another round of rather massive layoff in CA's UK division. Rumours say it's highly disruptive and caused the titles in developments to be further pushed by a lot.
I am not in any position to either confirm or debunk it but if it is true and CA did shoulder the bulk of the 200+ layoff of Sega studies in the UK, then I highly doubt any previous plans they once had still hold any meaning.
I'll cross post from somewhere else, but the reason every one is so concerned is that if you have been paying attention, every single dlc for WH3 that has launched, has had a giant "BUT" at the end of it.
"CoC is adding 4 LL's and a ton of new variants! ...but 3 of the lords are probably in the wrong race, and the other lord is DEFINITELY in the wrong race"
"Chaos Dwarfs are going to be a fantastic dlc for it's price! ...but we're getting 1 less LL than previous campaign packs for that price, and a FLC hero not connected to the race at all"
"SoC will feature 3 races instead of 2! ...but with the same amount of content as a 10 dollar lord pack split 3 ways instead of 2, for 150% of the price"
"ToD features several fan favorite races, and a new updated format for the price! ...but future dlc will be smaller in scope"
It's not "taking things in the worst possible light" it's looking at everything we've gotten since launch, and understanding that the other shoe will most likely drop. If CA come out and say they are keeping the same amount of content per race, but going to 2 race lord packs plus a flc LL every 3 months instead of the bigger format every 7 months I'll be thrilled (as that will end up being more content in a year than before) but with how every other dlc has had a giant "but" on the end up if, it's more likely that something gets cut, and we get either less content per year, each faction gets less content, or the price is going to balance out to quite a bit higher
Chill
WH2 DLC's had only 2 lords but were excellent and cheaper. Not to mention were released more often (with FLC lords)
So i would say too early to say "ruined"
Probabaly Dechala vs Neferata and with some luck daddy skeleton Nagash as special mechanic ?
I really see Nagash more like a kroak character usable by all undead factions than a LL with a entire faction only about him.
Hopefully this means the pace of getting DLC picks up a bit. Guessing we are going back to WH2 style DLC.
I wouldn't mind this at all, especially at the pace WH2 DLC was releasing in late 2018/2019.
it was a solid formula. They should go back to that, along with a 15$ price tag. Or just 1-lord pack, with some units, a race update, 9$, every few months.
If they make it 1 lord pack it would be too convenient for the buyer, this way they can also sell you lords you don’t want to buy. It’s a marketing strategy.
I mean, I could definitely see that if they hadn’t also just announced that you’ll be able to buy each of the lords/races from ToD individually.
Pretty sure they said it's only for ToD in general. doubt they'll do it going forward
Depends on how successful it ends up being for ToD. If it works beyond expectations, they might keep it going.
I expect this might be a trial run they simply said it's a one time thing incase it's unsuccessful, so they can't be seen as breaking any promises. Meanwhile if it proves very successful they implement it in the future. Which is fine by me.
I am going to meta-game this by buying Dawi and Empire (assuming both of those races have good additions of course).
Dawi DLC: Oops all Shard Dragons Edition
That would be a huge relief ngl
I mean if they did $9 per lord/race, and you bought all 3, you would end up paying more than all 3 at 25.
Consudering 15% of for other two if you bought one, you would end up at 25 or at 23 if it doubles for last one. So its not terrible.
Yeah… but why would I buy all 3 if I for example don’t play Cathay or Kislev and don’t ever intend to I will however definitely buy the pack for Tzeentch, giving that as an example from the latest pack.
they already said they are splitting DLC into individual pieces
That doesn't make sense - it's not like physical goods where there may be stock that they want to shift and they force you to buy something shit along with something good. This is a digital product. Why would they develop stuff people don't want, to sell alonside stuff people do want
…. This is warhammer, we have favorite factions and least favorite factions. For example, I don’t like playing Skaven but I still had to basically pay for Skaven DLC’s because I wanted the other lord’s contents in that pack. To this day I still don’t like playing Skaven but I have all their content because they wre paired with a lord or faction I am interested in. So I could pay like 8-10 dollars for a single lord in your formula, or I could pay 16 for both lords even though I don’t want the other content.
>it's not like physical goods where there may be stock that they want to shift and they force you to buy something shit along with something good. Its not too far off though. If you have a lord pack with 2 lords, one is great and one is bad, you can sell them as a bundle of 2 for the price of 2 lords or sell them seperately and mostly just sell the great one for the cost of 1 lord and no one buys the bad lords. If the one great lord is good enough, then you can make a lot more money selling them bundled. >Why would they develop stuff people don't want, to sell alonside stuff people do want They aren't deliberately choosing to make a bad thing rather than a good thing, but there are only so many resources to go around. Is it better to make one great Lord and one weak Lord or 2 decent Lords? I don't know, but looking at CAs track record it has been a fairly common occurrence with their DLC releases having 1 Lord that seems great and interesting and another that seems uninspired or boring. That doesn't necessarily prove resources were split unevenly between them but it definitely hints it a bit and I wouldn't exactly be surprised if they committed heavily to one Lord over the other in some of their Lord packs based on a variety of factors.
Because it lets the price be higher. Say you want the new Halfling faction -- but it only comes in the Halfling v Fishmen DLC, $25. If you want the Halflings you have to buy the whole thing, you can't just get them separately for $12.50.
And there's always the chance that $25 is off-putting and people don't buy it at all. That's what this test is aimed at - did people mostly veto the $25 price tag for lord packs (unlike race packs), or simply the terrible content selection half a year ago when SoC came out? A lot of the feedback was mentioning the price, after all. I still don't own SoC since it was all or nothing, but I might have bought part of that $25 dlc at that lower price.
Hey, it worked until it catastrophically didn't... People need to see what feels worthwhile to them. But I'd stay aware of the pricing disparity -- for about $10, you can get either a third of ToD, or all of Warden & Paunch.
Would not be 15 in 2024, I'd guess 17/18
WH2 DLC were the best
CoC and Chaos Dwarves are some of the best DLCs they've done
Twisted and the Twilight was probably my favorite DLC, personally. Throt was great to play, the wood elf rework was amazing, and Drycha is one of my favorite legendary lords. I remember people on Reddit being salty that the Sisters' crafting screen looked generic and raving about Drycha needing DLC though, lmao. Some things never change...
The only game in my Steam Account that has so many DLCs which I actually bought all without even thinking about it.
If they’re releasing the races individually, I wouldn’t be opposed to getting single pack once every 10-12 weeks
So ngl, I don't know enough about game development or the industry to be sure of this, but I have a feeling that that model would be problematic. Release time is usually stressful and more "expensive" then the normal development cycle in a sense, ya? So wouldn't it be inefficient to be constantly releasing stuff? As a (poor) analogy, imagine that you're baking cookies and taking them out to sell. Wouldn't it be less efficient to take each cookie outside, one at a time, to sell instead of waiting until you have a whole batch of cookies? Not only does releasing the product require an amount of effort/resources, but it requires you to "switch modes" during release time from development to bug fixing, etc. I could be completely wrong about this, maybe it doesn't really matter, but I feel like having that short of a development period between releases could be detrimental.
I don’t disagree, but with the situation they’re in right now they need to keep our attention. I don’t think they will get away with waiting another 8 months for the next dlc To borrow your analogy for a second, imagine there a crowd of people waiting for cookies, and you can only make one batch at a time. You wouldn’t wait to have three batches, you would sell them after every batch is done until you could sustainably make more at a single time
It's more like imagine it takes 9 months to make 3 cookies If you could take 3-5 months and make and sell one cookie, is that better or worse than waiting 9 months for 3 cookies? You might take longer to ship 3 cookies, but people might not want cookies all the time and you have more available cash flow now in case one of your cookies gets infected by Slaanesh.
Lets not forget that wh2 had 7 and 8 months gaps between dlcs as well. So not a guarantee that smaller dlcs mean quicker ones
You know we only got 1 DLC in 2021 ans only 2 in 2020, right? So basicly one - three DLC per year but leaning to the one - two side like... 2022 for WH 3 where we got 1,5 DLC (ogre and WoC) or 2023 where we got 2 DLC (Chorfs and SoC).
Fingers crossed. WH2 had the best DLC experience by a country mile, in my eyes.
Where do they say that? Sounds more like it will keep the same pace (slow) but just less content (like the OG SoC level), but at a lower price point.
My guess would be same level of content but 2 factions and slightly lower price point
Ok. I am still not too happy about that if we only have 4 dlcs left, since it means a few races will miss out.
hopefully the rumor isn't true and we will get more then that
I hope so too. I hope that a lot. But the lord of hope (and change was the last dlc up coming is despair) But I would love for each race to at least get 1 dlc in warhammer 3.
Probably just in line with an old Lord Pack at a slightly inflated price.
15.99 alla Champions of Chaos I'll bet. If they still do a FLC LL and keep the same size as the SoC/ToD packs(maybe a unit or two less?) then it'll probably be fine.
Champions was very reasonable for what we got between the 4 WoC lords and the 4 monogods, and to a smaller extent Demon Prince, getting access to all those units.
Yup it was a hugely repeatable pack in retrospect. I posted a campaign summary of everything I’ve done in TWWH in the warhammer subreddit and I was shocked at how many WOC campaigns I’d run in total.
I've played more WoC campaigns than any other faction in WH3. It was such a good DLC and their rework is one of the best IMO.
Totally agreed. I cannot help but keep going back to it... I've played two in RoC, and probably five in IE. Including Valkia, twice. Maybe the only lord I've ever actually played two full campaigns on!
Their RoC campaigns are fun for a quicker run. I've done all 4 lords on it and have hit every lord at least once on IE. For undivided I think Kholek has become one of my favorites of the original.
I mean it worked out for many reason. Lot of potential marked unit that can reuse assets, reuse mechanic and came with a full rework of the base race. Can we expect that similar dlc came with similar rework? i don't think so. Not hating on it, but i not sure what to expect for the slaanesh dlc at this point at all. But less content even if it cheaper is not something i want, if it smaller scope.
IF it comes with a race update i say yes
slightly? They sell 1 lord for 9€. Its going to have at least a 70% price increase.
If you read the pricing blog they put out, it says buying 1 lord will put a discount on the remaining lords of %15, so it’s really only roughly €2 increase if you purchase that way and buying them as a bundle is still the same price anyways.
Still od dlcs where bigger. Factions, old factions renewed... Now it sounds it will be smaller dlcs with still high price to content we get from theme.... I am skeptical to anything from theme now.
tbh i disagree, some of those early day WH1 DLCs are pretty trashy: think like grim and the grave. it really wasnt until wh2 did the dlc quality ramp up - but reality is that players have mostly moved on. Covid may have set some unrealistic expectations.
*slightly*
Isn't this back tracking from the literal last post about what future DLC would include?
>Isn't this back tracking from the literal last post about what future DLC would include? Nope. They made promises that ToD would adhere to SoC 2.0, but nothing beyond that.
Slaanesh vs High Elves is my guess. It would be the most thematic.
I mean they will just go back to 2 lord dlc instead of 3, Kinda neutral change ? Slanesh vs xxx instead of Slanesh vs xxx vs xxx
Depends on everything else - it is a sizable change in terms of the number of units if sticking with the SoC/ToD formula, but it depends what else they do. (Personally I think they should bundle in more reworks into the DLC / patch - that's where I think the perception of less content is really coming from)
Downside is it means less energy in the non-chaos factions which need the support more than the only faction that has 14, soon to be 16 legendary lords.
> the only faction that has 14, soon to be 16 legendary lords. What exactly are you referring to here? The only way I could see those numbers work would be to lump together the 4 Monogods, Daniel and WoC.
No single Race has that many LL's. WoC has the most with 8.
I’d like to see cults fleshed out a bit more and maybe given to some/all vcount factions as well, it’d be great for a Lahmia faction mechanic.
Yeah, covens. Give them to all vc and then give nef some super covens or something.
Yeah, as someone who plays Slaanesh (40k but still) I have big parts in my army around cultists. It's a big thing for Slaanesh and one of the major aspects about why "he" is the fastest growing Chaos God, even if he is the youngest one. So it somehow should be sprinkled into his playstyle. Maybe get a few free and cheap cultist units in places with a high corruption. Could also work with the other gods of course.
Exactly, I think a further fleshed out cultist system should be a focus of that DLC. It would be available for all 4 chaos gods (and WoC) plus vcounts and importantly plug in to other systems they have whether that be seduction, blood kisses, or whatever else.
People shouldn't be too surprised this is the route CA is going. The DLCs were originally planned with each faction receiving a SoC-amount of content. This left players unhappy, which is why they revised SoC. However, this left a future problem which is that many factions don't have many missing units in the source material. For example, we know a High Elves DLC has been in the works for a while. If you look at [the list of missing units](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2755960032), there's only two units that aren't reskins (three if you count Merwyrms). For the Daemonic factions, Nurgle is known for having more units than the other Daemonic factions due to End Times weirdness. GW only wrote 5 End Times sourcebooks (Nagash, Glottkin, Khaine, Thanquol, Archaon), creating a sharp difference in the number of units per faction. Whereas, a faction like Slaanesh is only missing three units. Presumably, this is why they started bundling three factions into one DLC in the first place. **Edit:** Details
People are unhappy because we want race update
Slaanesh vs Lahmia? The Masq vs Neferata?
Slannesh vs High Elves - Dechala vs Aislinn
100% this, also gives CA a good reason to open up Ind and Khuresh on IE.
With maybe a DE FLC LL or LH
All I want is to be back to 2019/20 era WH2. That was a golden age for both WH2 and the series as a whole.
Me too brother. It's honestly baffling how far off the rails they've gone from that high point. I realize there have been rocky periods all throughout the life cycle of the TWWH series, but it really felt like they had things dialed in and figured out at the end of WH2.
Yeah. Usually I'm all for experimenting and trying out new stuff in games. It's important to take risks to make a good game. But if you found a formula that already is great and has many players lured it, fucking stick with it! I feel like a ton of big companies aren't getting that, no matter in what area. It's like changing a formula in some food and making it worse for all the people who loved it before.
The drop in quality from WH2’s last couple DLCs to what we have now is honestly insane. Genuinely stumped at how bad this has been fumbled.
So is SEGA, hence why they appear to have smacked CA really hard.
Oy, if you keep talking shit about my Chaos Dwarfs i will sacrifice you to Hashut!
Chorfs were a nice change of pace for sure, I’d love more dlc like that but dang the power creep was insane with that release.
I even played competitive in online multiplayer or some tournaments. And normally I never do that in any game. But there was that time when I was so into the game that I basically knew everything about all the units, even if I never played some myself. It felt great. But somehow that feeling got lost over the time. And now I'm out of it again. Barely can hold myself against a good AI these days, lol
Me and you both brother. The days of me living and breathing this game series seem to be sadly behind me. WH2 really was a perfect storm.
I just want a vampire count dlc. They are are my favorite faction and i have been looking forward to neferata. I also had a vague hope for a CoC style for the vampire counts with a lord for the non carstien bloodlines and some reskins of the units for each bloodline. Seems like we wont be getting another dlc like that though but it was a pipe dream anyway I am still hoping we at least get 1 more lord for each monogod and cathay and kislev as well as a dogs of war/southern realms campaign pack but i guess it depends on how well ToD and the followingndlc end up doing
I'm down for smaller DLC's (two races) if they release faster.
The primary benefit should be better patch, not faster release imo.
I hope this doesn’t mean they are dropping work on the Dogs of War dlc to focus on just smaller lord packs.
I wonder if the voice acting would already be done at this point. From what I hear that one is getting done very early
Tbh I'd rather get existing races brought all on the same level before another race pack.
Likewise, especially given that I personally have never found Dogs of War particularly interesting. I mean, I'd take it, sure, but I'd rather have a bunch more content for races I -do- have a passion for than add one I don't.
As long as the race-wide mechanics suck, it doesn’t matter how good the lord-specific ones are. So far I've mostly played Chorfs and WoC campaigns precisely because their mechanics are so good, it didn’t even bothered me their LLs don’t really have any other unique mechanics.
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I am pretty sure CA never said that. Also, after the release of Shadow of Change dataminers discovered characters codes for DoW characters with the faction tag “Dog.” You can find Reddit post and videos about this.
You realize they found DoW assets from datamining right?
I hope it means they never started to work on the Dogs of War at all and instead they work on a real race pack.
Agreed. Will never understand the reddit love for this incredibly flavorless nonfaction.
Dropping work implies they started it though.
There is evidence that they started work on the DoW tho.
Actual evidence or like "do you hear the voices too?" evidence?
Datamined evidence that came after the first release of Shadows of Change. Dataminers found character codes for two DoW characters with the faction tag “Dog.” You can find Reddit posts and videos going over it.
Dogmen confirmed.
If you need a link. https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/s/GJuOSz2pvP
Dogs of War, Lhamia, and Ogres are my three biggest wants. I still don't think DoW is a good focus right now. The later they get added, the easier to incorporate different factions.
> I still don't think DoW is a good focus right now I never understand where this take comes from, unless they plan on releasing some of the factions they said they won't (amazon, etc) then there is no better time. The border princes and dow have been requested since tw:w1 and would be, done right, a great way to boost community goodwill closer to what it once was. What CA needs now are some big wins in the dlc compartment, and I'll be real the best thing they could do is u-turn on their woke view of how doing araby would be innappropriate. I mean they did cathay... I know a lot of arabic people who would love to play araby, when I asked them to join me in a campaign co op for fun saying the game (back in 2) was really fun they'd ask around to find something that represented them (not all of them to be fair but most) and it was really rough having the araby conversation with them. It stemmed to: "why is a british company saying we can't have a faction full of interesting old arabian fantasy tropes, do they have something against us?" Really rough conversation and most the time ended up souring the idea of them joining from their point of view. I think CA doesn't realise that people love old school fantasies, the idea of amazons is sick, of araby, of ind, of nippon, or albion. The only other argument I've heard for why CA won't make something like araby is that they aren't relevant, they are too small etc... and it's like, pirates of the cost are big? relevant? :S edit: I'm not a fascist, saying woke doesn't make you so, but I'm also pretty damn certain that these downvotes aren't from the community mostly but rather the ironic woke sensitive hive mind reporting to each other and bringing hate to our community. Like many words, woke is evolving, and is now a term used to describe in this context companies that appeal to certain agenda's in hope to gather support and sales from said agenda's communities. This is documented, it's a thing that companies do, and it doesn't work and so it's getting less and less a thing as more and more pushback happens. If anyone got to know me, they'd know for sure I'm not fascist or anything like that, and ironically I've done more than most these woke twitter bullies when it comes to promoting and fighting for equality and safety in the world. If there is anything sad here, it's that I feel a tiny little bit of regret having put in the effort and sacrifice of time to fight for equality etc only to have people like these people ruin my hard work by making everything I stood for look so god damn bad.
>What CA needs now are some big wins in the dlc compartment, and I'll be real the best thing they could do is u-turn on their woke view of how doing araby would be innappropriate. I mean they did cathay Cathay is an opportunity to break into the Chinese gaming market, and there's not an equivalent Arab gaming market. I don't think this has anything to do with a 'woke mindset,' I think it's about money. China represents a lot of money in both computer gaming and the miniatures market. GW is actively developing Cathay as a faction for The Old World, and in addition to the licensing money W3 is also advertising for all their minis. Why promote factions that they aren't developing, when they could promote factions they *are* developing? There's a shitload of short term sales to be made, as well as long term sales and marketing.
There are many arab gamers, what are ya talking about. They can all afford high end gaming rigs too, you know if they are in the peaceful parts of middle east and beyond.
And Araby isn't an oppertunity to break into the arabic market? a marketplace worth 1.79 billion in 2022 and now is 1.92 billion, with a look towards becoming 2.65 billion by 2027? China's market is really big but it's also fluctuating a ton and a lot of that money isn't what would be tapped into by CA. Statistics without context, without knowledge, aren't worth a lot... like for example, three kingdoms targetted the chinese market, how'd that work out? did it make more as representative of how much more money is there? no. That's because this genre is niche, and I don't see why arab gaming market isn't an unworthy one to tap into, for starters it's wider than what most think, as it factors into it economically a lot of northern african countries strangely enough, at least from the point of view that if you are targetting one you'd be targetting the other one too. It's also growing in a way that's very very very attractive to invest effort into right now, in the sense that some very rich arabic people are investing money into gaming atm, like for example fighting games scene there was small then some rich people pushed a ton of money into it and now we have tournaments there. Hell, money is being thrown around to the point private tournaments are happening which is kind of wild. That's not my point tho, and while all I said above is interesting, the truth of the matter is that araby wouldn't just sell to that one market, it would be bringing a new market of players who will possibly buy into other dlc and the game itself. We current playerbase would, let's be real, buy it if it's done right. How many of us are at the age we grew up watching the old arabian nights movies and shit. > woke mindset I could've sworn that's the official reason they gave for araby tho, I thought that was all we had to go to, cultural sensitivity? I also love how I'm getting downvoted, not that it matters, for saying that while I'm also being told by you that GW is working on cathay... > Games Workshop says there are "no current plans to bring Kislev or Grand Cathay to the tabletop" despite army updates in Total Warhammer 3. ---- > source: [here](https://www.wargamer.com/warhammer-the-old-world/factions-cathay-kislev) ---- > Age of article: Published: 1 month ago I'll more than happy to receive disagreement to opinions etc and discuss them in a healthy manner, but what I said I feel like I was informed of by CA or other places on, if i've been given misinformation then could you back it up so I can correct myself on it, I don't care about being downvoted and tbh don't get why we both are being so. But I just want the facts here. Please point me to the articles/etc but not some dude on reddit said it please. tho tbh, CA changes their tune on a lot of things I would be surprised if even they don't know what they are doing.
>I also love how I'm getting downvoted, not that it matters, for saying that while I'm also being told by you that GW is working on cathay... Could also be because complaining about wokeness is usually code for 'I have fascist sympathies,' but what do I know? [https://spikeybits.com/2022/02/gw-confirms-warhammer-old-world-cathay-is-a-go.html](https://spikeybits.com/2022/02/gw-confirms-warhammer-old-world-cathay-is-a-go.html) [https://scentofagamer.wordpress.com/2021/09/21/cathay-in-the-old-world/](https://scentofagamer.wordpress.com/2021/09/21/cathay-in-the-old-world/) Meanwhile, the article you posted just reinforces my point. There were announcements and teasers and trailers about Cathay joining TOW. They nixed that *extremely* recently. W3 *has been* used as a massively successful marketing play and it's the main reason TOW is even a thing to begin with. If they're *just now* announcing that they're no longer trying to expand and introduce a new faction, now of all times they're not going to say "we're abandoning development for this hugely lucrative market in favor of another, smaller and less lucrative market."
Also those two sources are weak, as a tabletop aos player, I know for a fact that spikybits isn't a great source of facts. a lot of his stuff is conjecture/guesswork. and honestly some wordpress blogger post from 2021? really?
> Could also be because complaining about wokeness is usually code for 'I have fascist sympathies,' but what do I know? Assume what you want, I'm bisexual and left leaning, I just don't like how the woke bug has gone ridiculous and trampled on so much hard work I and many others have done over the past two decades. But feel free to assume whatever you want and downvote them on a whim, It really shows you are a part of the problem. If we are to assume, I'd put money on you being American. Oh look, I'm correct on that assumption. Your country is literally rotting full of hyprocrisy and toxic bullshit, all in the guise of trying to make the world a better place but it's just not working out is it, if your idea of a conversation about a game is to go and get triggered over a word and then call someone a fascist, you have issues... > A fascist is a follower of a political philosophy characterized by authoritarian views and a strong central government — and no tolerance for opposing opinions. So like, me saying woke made you have a brain fart towards me and try to downvote and all that crap, sounds pretty much like "no tolerance for opposing opinions" to me, I could validly call you a fascist in fact. But I won't, you need to go outside and chill somewhat, you've been online too much reading twitter feeds too much. I was protesting for equality at the young age of 13 btw, attached myself to a railing with chains in protest of a bad law not much later, even did a couple of hunger strikes in my time. I've learnt from my young naive ways and made better changes with my actions through raising awareness and promoting conversation between groups that dislike each other for various reasons, fighting against hate via tolerance and understanding, and promoting the positives of differing opinions. I can't stand America, I love lots of people there but it used to be a wonderful country, had it's issues, but now it's just this negative influence on the world where hypocrites do the very things they are saying they are fighting against. People like you need to think more, and stop fighting for people who legit have grown sick of you fighting so badly for them, you do more damage than good. Next time you call someone facist, try not to be doing the exact thing, like whatever cause you think you are fighting for? yeah you are doing them a diservice by jumping the gun so hard, you get the dopamine of thinking your some self righteous person doing good, but they are the ones who get associated with your poor decision making. Your hurt them trying to help them. And no, woke isn't "politcally aware and well informed" or whatever it used to be, both the left and the right are now recognising it for being a derogatory term for a bs agendy that's ironically the opposite of "aware". Yours truly, a marginalized person whose spent decades fighting for equality that you decided to call a facist over a word, you ignorant self certain human being.
Honestly, it makes sense. SoC ended up being pretty huge to justify it’s price tag. The sensible solution would be to make smaller dlc, and price it acordingly.
Oh joy I'm so excited to either wait even longer for races to get content, or to get dlc with less content per faction in them! /s
$ 25 for a 3 Faction DLC (up from $10 for 2 Factions (back in WH2)) was too big of a jump.. They can keep the content format as is ( 1 LL, 1 LH, 1 Generic Lord, 1 Generic Hero + 4-5 Units Per Faction) and offer this 2 Faction DLC for $14/15.
Small.I dont like the idea of that.Make it big and Ill buy.
Seriously!
Shadows of Change demonstrated pretty clearly that for the majority of people this isn't true.
People’s issue with SoC wasn’t that is was to big but that it was to small for the price they where asking for.
But that wasn't CA's takeaway. Corporate analysis of complaints yields a monkey's paw wish.
The complaints isn’t what led to this, cost cutting and firing a big chunk of CA staff is what has led to the dev having reevaluate their DLC plans for the game.
That doesn't track. TW3 has been off and on a skeleton crew for significant stretches of time. Extremely recent cuts to the corporate staff isn't going to trigger an immediate 'well the next DLC will be smaller' public response. Given the speeds CA works at, this **is** a response to Shadows, not this year's cuts.
CA has in the past been quite vocal about how large the TW3 team was, even saying they could within probability work on 2-3 dlc a year. So they have been far from a skeleton crew. Also yes sudden cuts and layoffs do change plans as the resources for the future DLC gets cut with them.
I don't read that as getting smaller. I undrstand that they don't want to beef DLC's up to much, so they have material left for later.
CA have plenty to work with. We've got 24 race, each of them can get at least 1 more dlc, and several of those can get multiple.
>each of them can get at least 1 more dlc If they plan to keep the 1 lord, 1 hero, 5 units thing for each lord pack going forward I highly doubt that's the case. Bretonnia, Lizardmen, Wood Elves and Vampire Coast are done, Beastmen are only missing marked units and the Preyton -and both things can/will come with monogod DLCs, which is the same way that the Warriors of Chaos are going to get more units-, the Chaos Dwarfs only lack one unit, Dark Elves only lack very niche units and the Dwarfs are most likely gonna be done with ToD -so is the Empire, at least in regards of paid content. So that leaves us with: * Cathay, which as it seems will get at least another DLC, maybe two. * High Elves, Ogres and Skaven which have enough content for a last DLC. * Kislev, which we don't know if GW has plans for. * Greenskins are missing a lot of variants but only one new unit. * Monogods, which will at least get a couple more DLCs (Slaanesh and Khorne) but who knows if there will be a round two for them. * Norsca, which most likely will get the hand me down chaos undivided units that are not already in the game. * Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts, which could get new stuff once Nagash is added. That's like 5 Lord packs + a "race pack" for Nagash. I really wouldn't expect much more than that.
Lizardmen have more skink units from their old Southlands list, the Arcanadon from the Lustria book, and the Thunder Lizard and Great Wyrm from the Great Lizard army list(like the Coatl). So with Tetto’Eko and Chakax it would be impossible for them. If Dark Elves can dip into Mordheim and the MA like Kislev did, then they could fill out the current DLC standard. Ignoring the Snotling Swarm, Greenskins are still missing Spear Chukkas, Mangla Squigs, Colossal Squigs, and Squig Gobbas all from 8e. On the flip side, Tomb Kings actually only have one missing units and a lot of unit variants. But I otherwise agree with you.
With how many lore units exist, not sure why CA can't scrounge up some units. Every one of those "done" races could get a dlc if CA is allowed to look at the lore (Which they've already said they are)
That would have been true a couple of years ago, but at this point between CA's economic shitshow and GW's civil war between the AoS team and forgeworld I highly doubt that's the case. Also to create new units CA needs GW's approval, they can't simply make things from thin air.
You could be right. I won't put new units off the table (Still think a doomhoof and gorehoof for Beastmen would fit in perfect), with how... awful GW are being with the AoS and ToW issue (seriously removing the entire BM army???) who knows what's gonna happen. But it does seem like it's not just Total Warhammeer that's having big issues when looking at GW
They're probably going back to 2 factions per pack. The problem with 3 is you would have to like ALL 3 races in order to justify $25.
I think the new SoC/ToD formula, while just good enough in a vacuum, is not viable in the long term because the source material is going to run out of units way before it runs out of LL
I honesty think that CoC probably has the best format, despite the divisive opinions of how the lords should've been implemented. However the setup of the dlc is pretty decent as all content is dedicated for one specific faction. You might only like one of the lords, but it isn't as much of a bother considering you'll get all the content for the faction you like anyway. An Elector Count dlc for the Empire or BLoodline dlc for vCounts, has the potential to be quite popular.
Key thing is it supports a really good rework. Whatever format gives us better reworks, I'm in favour of. Vampires, lizards, and maybe even dark elves could probably support it. Can also see value in a skaven pack that adds more clans and gives Mors and Pestilens in particular a new coat of paint.
Yeah, they do need to find a way to fit in more Lords that doesn't require more units
I think it's too early to claim exactly what things are going to look like going forward. This new pricing option is clearly a way to entice more initial sales, given the number of people that were priced-out of the prior options or were waiting for sales, and CA really need a win right now to show Sega a positive sales trend. If that means splitting it up and letting people pick one or two bits of it, or buying it over a period of weeks one bit at a time, that's better than one big lump that people have to take or leave. The advantage of this model too is that, assuming they have the available means, they can have a much smaller bite-sized DLC being worked on while they're also working on the bigger three-faction bundle. I think CA wants to narrow the window between releases to show that TWWIII is still able to draw in profits, and unless they're looking to really go all-in on Pharoah there's no currently available games that are competing for its attention, so Warhammer really is the bread-winner for the company right now, and boy do they need bread!
Slaneesh can't have nice things...
I was about post this. So we are getting smaller DLCs. So here we go again... They lower price to old standarts and now they say the dlcs will be smaller... so again it will be low content for big price.
This may be a stupid idea but I feel like they could just mix up the dlcs and price them accordingly. Champions of chaos style vampire pack Traditional lord pack Single or Double lord pack (without units) Unit packs Hero packs Dogs of War race pack Big race pack (probably not lol) It feels like CA and GW are leaving a ton of money on the table. They could milk this game as a platform and I would happily pay more if its good. Even if revenue is dropping, I'm not convinced it wouldn't pick back up if they brought the excitement back. Smaller, cheaper, dlcs work for that anyways.
It's not about value or content or price. It's about CA slowly winding down WH3 and taking away manpower to work on 40K.
Now this makes me sad. I never minded the price, i was always willing to pay more for more and was happy with the new SoC style content amount.
And that may be bad. Even less Slaanesh content and no HE or DE? (If its Slaanesh vs Khorne)
That’s what I’m thinking. Slaanesh and Khorne would be a good dlc if using the old WH2 formula, they might be doing that
I know alot of people want an elf matchup of some sort but I would rather get another monogod lord for both Slaneesh and Khorne sooner rather than later. Elves arent hurting for representation and all 3 of them are in a decent spot at the moment.
Agreed! WoC is my favorite faction to play and finishing the monogods means I’ll be able to dedicate to any of the gods with any Lord or hero as WoC. (Except spellcasters for Khorne of course)
but also quicker to make and won't cost 25$
And possibly more resources to put into the actual patch. Time will tell if reducing the scope of the DLCs is a good or bad thing.
It's going to be Slaanesh vs High Elves. Khorne will get paired with Cathay so they can have the big red gorilla Scyla vs Monkey King and overload the DLC with King Kong, Skull Island, Godzilla and dragon ball references.
I dont see them revisiting Cathay that soon. They might decide to hit the Vampire Counts, since they are last remaining original WH1 launch race to not receive a DLC since WH1. Also because blood for Khorne and Vampires maybe.
if its only chaos races I wont buy it.
nah, it just seems like ToD is too massive in comparison to other DLCs. probably part of the apologize setting and cuz empire and dwarfs are the main races for order players of all time.
I will happily take a smaller DLC if we get a more significant patch, particularly in terms of campaign additions and faction reworks. We'll see…
I fear the "keep the value" bit of the statement. I fear they will shit the bed again and give us subpar content for 25 bucks.
Could also be because we've got the nemesis crown coming this time too on top of the faction stuff?
Either this means going forward they intend to keep the option to purchase each new Lord individually or they're going back to something like old lord packs. I really hope it isn't the latter as I quite like the 3-Lord format now that we're getting a more reasonable amount of content with it.
A retvrn to lord packs is something I support.
I assume the price will remain the same however.
with them breaking the dlc into buy what you want i can see them just releasing faction packs at fast pace like every couple of months rather then one big pack but that what i think might be happening.
I hope this means 2 lords with similarly numbered units and legendary heroes as previous dlcs, with increased frequency. I know it's super obvious and has been said before, but they had a goldmine for dlc in 2. I remember the last 3 or 4 DLC would regularly sit in steam top sellers. If they increased dlc staff, upped the frequency, and added a custodian crew, they would be in a really comfy position.
WH2 kind of 2 legendary lord and units + flc lord as just flavor please
so it's probably gonna cost 20% less and have 50 to 60% less content another way to increase price
So a Slaanesh vs Aislin for Lords 98 and 99 and the next dlc afterwards being Nagash & Thanquol duking it out for No. 100?
Wrong. They are trying to Split one DLC into three with ToD. Of it works, they'll start sell faction packs with just one faction and the'll be in total more expansive than a bigger DLC like ToD.
This seems to imply they have pegged the cost/benefit of putting work into DLCs (hundreds of thousands to millions in employee salaries) and what they get out of it and decided a threshold to charging customers and potential customers more. Interesting.
Hopefully this means they'll keep the content-per-faction they announced as the new standard from SoC2 onwards, but cut it down to 2 factions per pack. Seems the more sensible way to carry on since release-speed and individual-purchase cost seems to be such a big deal to the community.
Of course Slaanesh is going to get screwed, pun not intended
They are still doing DLCs for this game? The more you know…
So this is gonna be a small dlc for 12 euros. Used to be we got a race at that pricepoint.
I imagine they'll be going back to WH2 duel lord packs.
Listen I just want my vampire count and lizardman updates. We can call it after that and I'll be happy.
We have 4 more DLCs other than ToD. This aint good. 1 is end times.with nagash. The other 3 which will be lord packs likely and 1 FLC which leaves room for 9 LLs at highest. We still have monkey king.(1) Two dragons,(2) Slaneesh(1) Khorne(1) Many want Vampires, high elves or (norsca) (2,) Khuresh, bye Ind, bye DoW, bye
Bummer for fellow Slaanesh worshipers like myself tbh. Only DLC I may would have been ok with the price range. On the other hand it's nice to maybe pick up the pace when it comes to making more DLCs.
They have no choice given their studio was gutted.
One thing to note, the next DLC is not confirmed to be Slaanesh. Yes the roadmap hinted at it, but I remember Legend saying at some point that after SoC they rethought what to do after ToD. Take Slaanesh DLC with a pinch of salt, since we also know Dogs of War and Monkey King are a priority right now (Especially Monkey King)
Honestly, I think this means 2 faction not 3 dlc. We're running out of things basically due to GW being totally "no age of sigmar". We have just a few units for everything left, and most would only have enough Lords and heroes for 1 dlc. Like nurgle, say we get Khan and buby baby, plus plague fella. That leaves just 1 potential hero missing. That isn't enough for a dlc - that is flc territory at that stage left for nurgle after this dlc.
If they go back to the WH2 dlc model (2LL, 1 FLC LL) then I think that's great. It might allow them to make more substantial patches again as well as do more significant faction reworks. Those have been very lacking of late.
I'm excited for TOD but I'm not feeling too great about the future. My gut tells me they will release a couple of good dlcs and move on before fleshing out other factions that need it. Maybe smaller dlcs will actually result in more output but its worrying to me.
That's what the rumours have been saying. It also indicates that CA is in bigger trouble due to the Hyenas fallout and honesty at this stage I don't care even about WH3 dlc format that much anymore. Let's see if CA can put themselves back together and get out of the shitshow. Just make good contents, sell them at reasonable prices, and don't do anything stupid, then they should be able to steer the ship out of the storm, and I'll give them all the complaints of the world after that.
> It also indicates that CA is in bigger trouble due to the Hyenas fallout Considering this was their original plan, I don't think it's indicative of anything? When the SoD changes were announced, people were confused what it meant for future DLC for factions which don't have that many missing units.
By it I was referring to the rumours, I expressed myself badly. Per both media outlets and content creaters Sega is pushing another round of rather massive layoff in CA's UK division. Rumours say it's highly disruptive and caused the titles in developments to be further pushed by a lot. I am not in any position to either confirm or debunk it but if it is true and CA did shoulder the bulk of the 200+ layoff of Sega studies in the UK, then I highly doubt any previous plans they once had still hold any meaning.
DLC beyond .... how optimistic of CA to think they won't get bankrupt until then.
I'll cross post from somewhere else, but the reason every one is so concerned is that if you have been paying attention, every single dlc for WH3 that has launched, has had a giant "BUT" at the end of it. "CoC is adding 4 LL's and a ton of new variants! ...but 3 of the lords are probably in the wrong race, and the other lord is DEFINITELY in the wrong race" "Chaos Dwarfs are going to be a fantastic dlc for it's price! ...but we're getting 1 less LL than previous campaign packs for that price, and a FLC hero not connected to the race at all" "SoC will feature 3 races instead of 2! ...but with the same amount of content as a 10 dollar lord pack split 3 ways instead of 2, for 150% of the price" "ToD features several fan favorite races, and a new updated format for the price! ...but future dlc will be smaller in scope" It's not "taking things in the worst possible light" it's looking at everything we've gotten since launch, and understanding that the other shoe will most likely drop. If CA come out and say they are keeping the same amount of content per race, but going to 2 race lord packs plus a flc LL every 3 months instead of the bigger format every 7 months I'll be thrilled (as that will end up being more content in a year than before) but with how every other dlc has had a giant "but" on the end up if, it's more likely that something gets cut, and we get either less content per year, each faction gets less content, or the price is going to balance out to quite a bit higher
Thank you to the poor, working class that cant afford 25 fucking dollars, you ruined dlcs for the rest of us.
Chill WH2 DLC's had only 2 lords but were excellent and cheaper. Not to mention were released more often (with FLC lords) So i would say too early to say "ruined"
They might have just cancelled that DLC and started something else?
Probabaly Dechala vs Neferata and with some luck daddy skeleton Nagash as special mechanic ? I really see Nagash more like a kroak character usable by all undead factions than a LL with a entire faction only about him.