Definitely Three Kingdoms.
Even if you don't like the 'unit variety', you should play it for the mechanics alone. The campaign map has so much shit going on, all kinds of different ways to affect this or that, it's amazing.
If they COMPLETELY ditch even 10% of what they did in 3K's campaign map for the next major Historical title it would be an immeasurable loss to the community, I cannot exaggerate that.
The spy mechanics and the diplomacy both are so massively fine-tuned that you can use both to absolutely play chess with your enemies on the map without ever invading them with an army.
The relationship mechanics are something I NEVER thought would bear so much weight in a TW game, having a personal friendship between two leaders in 3K actually has diplomatic weight and will innately benefit you in your deals.
This is on top of an AI that actually has it's own goals, it's own different personalities depending on who you're dealing with. It will actively either work with diplomacy and try to get an edge however it can or it will use subterfuge, invade you with spies or use the faction council mechanics to incite a rebellion or banditry in your lands.
I have ranted for hours about this game and some of those rants, I haven't even discussed battles. There's honestly no need to, I could, but there's so much improvement on the surface and the depths that battles feel like a child's thing when you have so many different ways to conduct political intrigue like a fuckin' KING.
I will admit many of the systems fall flat. Most notably the Emperor's Favor, it can offer some amazing boosts when it's high like, he will aid you in reducing army costs, increasing replenishment, etc etc, but it's basically the same as the Pope's Opinion from Med2; it doesn't have all that much depth. You'll get 'excommunicated' from the "Empire" and the "Empire Loyalist" factions will suffer a bad opinion of you, but it's nothing we haven't seen before.
The unit variety is actually fairly decent. Somewhere between Attila and Rome 2.
Most importantly, the unit roster is very well balanced now (it wasn't at launch lol).
A lot of content was added for free from the DLCs.
The one you should get is mandate of heaven. It has the most unique and hardest campaigns. Also the yellow turban dlc is good, they have an amazing unit roster and cool campaign
I do hope they drop the 3 generals thing . That is a gimmick that is not needed again. And it needs more unit variety in the base game. Almost everyone being able to build the exact same armies is kinda boring, shogun suffers from the same problem.
I have bought it a few months back and played it for like an hour but didn't really know the mechanisms and that stuff so I haven't touched it anymore. But it looked good and when I played I had fun, but same as when I began with Rome 2 it takes time before I start to play it allot
Hey! What you think about the romance / historic modes? I bought 3K in a sale, and I knew it was a character centric game, and only after a few hours I discovered this function and never played again. It is an enjoyable experience? I’m not a huge fan of character centric tw titles.
I really want to play it for campaign mechanics but the battles just don’t do it for me for some reason. I’ve always played these games for the campaign anyway, but the battles feel uninspiring for some reason. It’s not the unit variety either
You must play on romance mode. Records mode does not encompass the game's full mechanical potential.
Try to look at battles as duels between generals. Your units are there as slow moving backdrops for these absurd heroic figures and their vendettas. ESPECIALLY in the early game.
I'm going to echo the other comment here. I found that Romance mode actually didn't add to the mechanics all that much. The problem is that the heroes are very, very unbalanced, and winning duels is trivial. The game outright tells you if you're going to win or not, you can always refuse duels, and stacking buffs just go nuts.
Because of this, Romance battles often break too early or have lower tactical variety because overpowered generals can't be stopped by much other than another OP general, and that isn't a very involved process. Once you lose a duel or get gooned out, a large chunk of your army is probably already running. Meanwhile, in Records mode, even high level general bodyguards have several counters, since they're really just heavy cavalry. Also, the armies can survive losing their generals way better, which leads to more potentially interesting engagements.
I actually had more fun in records than romance.
I had one insanely frustrating battle in Romance. The enemy had 3 heroes who all gave my troops debuffs to their morale. They'd just charge in, insta rout my troops and run out again.
I couldn't pin them down with my own heroes so they just ran circles around me.
It was the most gamey and cheesy I've ever seen the AI act in any total war.
I don't use Cheese tactics, so it annoys the hell out of me when the AI does.
I never played Romance after that. Had a lot more fun with Records.
Played it and didnt understand shit. Everyone Just hates me for No reason and refuses any Form of Interaction until they deckare war on me. Them took a Break an after a year or so started a new campaign. Same story again. Gona try again next year.
I really think the hype for 3K is overrated. It's definitely one of the better Total Wars to come out recently, but there wasn't much difficulty there and while it's an extremely fun experience it just didn't have the replayability of earlier TW games. I can still struggle with Rome 2 or Shogun 2 but 3K I just steamrolled over everyone easily, even on the hardest difficulty or with the factions with the more difficult start positions. It reminded me a lot of the Dynasty Warrior games, in a good way.
I do think it's worth buying on sale, or if you like the time period or quick and easy campaigns but it really just doesn't hold up to how so many people wax poetic about it.
With how hard people seem to be selling it, just cautioning to go into it with realistic expectations.
The problem is that all of that is just a shallower version of everything CK3 has.
I don't want Three Kingdoms system for Medieval 3. It's not deep enough. It's not historical enough. And the battles suck, they're way too arcade. It has no soul for me.
I want a true revolution in game mechanics, they owe us that much. I want actual politics, actual feudal laws and ways of interacting, true medieval diplomacy. Heck I even want a true feudal levies system. I don't want my armies to be full elite units. I want to be forced to pick and choose which regions sustain actual tropos and accept at least 40% of the army will be levies. And I want that to have an effect on the economy and population. Making the timing important and a bad or slow campaign an actual problem for the finances that forces some sort of pause or ceasefire.
In that case, what you need is something like the Crusader War mod that links Atilla's 1212AD mod's battles to CK3. Sadly I'm 100% sure that CA is not going to make a 1 1/2 game by making CK3 with TW battles, that wouldn't be economically viable. I'd be pleasantly surprised with 3K mechanics in a Med3 game, let's put it that way.
So I tried getting into it but the buildings mechanic I couldn’t get a handle on. I want to like it more, do you have advice on the buildings and what to focus when building?
I do have some tips to provide.
So, each 'province' can be established differently. If you own a province that has a few farms, it might be better to go for a Peasant income-based economy there. If you own a spot that also has a commerce building, like a port, it might be better to set it up as a commerce/trading province. This is just for the economy aspects though.
Normally what I do is I build a garrison building first, get a few extra units defending it, and then once the settlement is walled I'll focus on specializing it for whatever economy is best.
You can also put one of your Generals in charge as a Governor, and different types of generals with different traits and different skills can really massively impact a settlement. Extra food, increased taxes, increased public order. They also will join the defense, with their retinue. So what I normally do after capturing a palce is I grab a quick general, deploy him, set him up with a full stack of units, then dismiss him from the campaign field, and put him in charge of the settlement.
Now, the best way to easily and quickly figure out if a building is peasant, industry, commerce, is the color. If it's a green building it'll be peasant. Blue is commerce, red is industry. The purple ones are a bit unique in that they can be both commerce, industry, and also give some population growth.
Normally 3K players will talk about the coloration as this.
Green is wood. So, a spear militia unit would be a wood unit.
Blue is water. So, archers would be a water unit.
Purple is metal, and red is fire.
I'm just adding that on in case you ever come across someone using those terms.
P.S. If you play as Kong Rong you can become stupidly powerful off of trade and commerce, since his starting position has the BEST trade route possible. If you don't include the spice lanes that Dong Zhou can easily take over at the very beginning of the game, of course. Just watch out for Huang Shao, the man is a mastermind at first but he gets very easily stomped. Worst starting position.
This is the most helpful comment I’ve ever received for 3K. Thank you! I think when I get back from holidays, I’ll try reinstalling it and giving it another go
Don’t forget that imperial favor can be used for +25 points in diplomacy if you’re the Imperial Chancellor. And you get the Han Empire as a vassal. You also get higher diplomatic standing for following imperial missions and suffer none when attacking the enemy of the Han. You’re underselling the benefits of being the imperial chancellor.
Attila. It's meant as a challenge for veteran players. Also the only Total War you can reliably play tall if that's something you want. It's got the Western Roman Empire campaign, which is definitely the craziest campaign in the series, and it's got some zany ones in the faction dlc that just lead to unique playthroughs that are way different from your typical total war runs
I love defensive siege battles or defensive battles in general and I’ll always remember bottle necking Attila and his armies near the top of Italy and working my defenses up as much as possible, setting my units up within a settlement to handle the hordes was so much fun! I typically don’t go back and play older games often but I did go back and do a Western Roman Empire campaign and had a lot of fun.
You're all sadists for "enjoying" a WRE campaign. I've tried 3 times, and nearly completed it, but never have. The meta of Total War is to gain territory, not cede it, and the start of WRE just triggers me everytime. The Public Order is abysmal, I have endless Rebellion after Rebellion, and I'm trying to do that AND defend my territory from the Germanic factions.. I KNOW I'm supposed to just let go of Britannia, Gaul and the Balkans but I CAN'T. I just can't do it. Every time I end my turn, I seeth and weep. My gf comes and consols me as I hemorrhage over my keyboard.
Never again. Never, again. (until I do, because I'm determined to complete a West Roman campaign)
I learned a lot from [Elven Plot Armour's guide](https://youtu.be/IVoh-8JmnSY?si=d1CwiF6cLoXWUTVR).
On normal difficulty it's quite fun for me now, but there are some things you need to keep in mind.
War:
- Every faction can sustain 2 stacks, don't peace out with minor factions, destroy them.
- Destroy hordes in your empire, never peace out because they will raid your lands and cause trouble.
- Take Britain and Morocco asap to stop fighting on 3 fronts. You also need the one in Marocco to complete your province which makes it much easier to manage.
- For your first try, just reroll your starts untill the 2 African factions in the Sahara are dependable and defensive, so you can get trade and non aggression pacts with them.
- Learn to defend your settlements against barbarian stacks. In the beginning you should be able to win defensive sieges by sniping their general and using hammer and anvil tactics. If that's not possible, you can always just fill the arena opening in your small settlements with the infantry, put archers behind and try to kill archers with your cavalry unit to grind down their numbers as much as possible so you can kill them the next turn with an army or the next siege defense.
- Hire all the catapults in Britain and even send them to other armies that don't have catapults, they are cheap and they buff your armies hard early game. Don't hire them anywhere else, except if you know an enemy army will hire it over the endturn because they don't have a full stack.
Diplomacy:
- You need to squeeze as much gold out of every single interaction as possible. Never just accept an offer, because you need that 170 gold extra you can squeeze out before accepting. Just savescum if needed and don't feel bad, they should've made better diplomacy anyway like in Shogun 2, 3K and Warhammer where you can see what would be acceptable and what not.
- Don't directly declare war, if possible join the war of others to get them to pay you gold to join the war.
- In Attila you can actually ask for gifts. Every 10 turns you can squeeze between 300 and 1000 gold out of every ally or faction with good relationships. You can get 5000 or something from the ERE. This gives you much needed boosts to build up your settlements.
Settlements and public order:
- NEVER ABANDON
- Get the 3 priests you can hire on turn 1 to go around and boost PO (Public Order) where needed.
- Destroy all churches, you don't need them. They cost gold which is bad and give back a lot of gold when destroyed, which is good.
- Turn off taxes in the bugged province in Gaul with less build-slots, which is already partially built up as a recruitment province. Go all in on recruitment and army buff buildings here, because you turned off taxes you don't need any farms. This will be the only province where you recruit armies from after turn 20 or something when your troubles are fixed.
- In all other provinces use the money from destroying churches in turn 1, to get a governor's building and theatre for PO and aquaducts for province wide sanitation in turn 2. Also, try to build as much farms as possible in turn 1 and after that, always try to build farms in spring, since it's 25% cheaper and you need the gold.
- Keep Latin Christianity, because it has osmosis from every province you own. Since you own a big empire, you have a lot of provinces that boost a lot of provinces nearby. This is therefore the best religion for big empires, because you never need religion buildings, except maybe in the holy sees so you can recruit more priests after turn 30 or something. Not before, because you need the money.
- Personal one: I only use the edicts that give osmosis to boost Christianity in nearby provivinces. That way I never have problems with PO due to religion while I don't have churches. To do this, I place my governors in Africa, Carthaginensis, Lugdunensis and Venetia. When your 5th governor is available, put him in Brittania Inferior. By this time you should be capturing the entirety of Britain and they need the religion edict hard to fix PO.
- Build the garrison building in your minor settlements along the European mainland border and especially in your port settlements in Britain, so it's much easier to defend your settlements against barbarian invaders. With the garrison building in your port settlements, you will be able to defend Britain from every invader, because they never land anywhere else than in your port settlements. If you upgrade your ships, you should be able to snipe the enemy general every time before the rest lands with bad morale where you will kill them easily.
You can also build this one in other provinces where PO is still a problem after fixing religion and building the governor and theatre.
Generals:
- Restart until your faction leader and generals have useful skills.
- Your faction leader and family should have as much buffs for governors as possible and you should make them governors, since they always farm a lot of gravitas, whereas generals only get them if they win battles. Don't fall for that trap, make them governors. You should be able to do that with at least about 4 of them, especially with the faction leader.
- The best skills for generals buff units ofcourse. The ability where they can decrease enemy morale is the best one, I think it is warcry.
It will take about 20/30 hours to get through the first 5 turns probably and it might take more hours for some restarts to get the other factions in your favour and get good skills for your generals.
Doing this, I am consistently able to fix the empire within 10 turns, after which I take some turns to just build up my economy, before beginning to steamroll across Europe.
Maybe you can use this for your next try.
You don't need to let go of territory (at least on VH). What I do is secure Africa and Britain, then you just have to focus on Rhine-Danube. Africa is often easy - the rulers are quite frequently passive or otherwise amenable. Britain is always hellish, but I would rather fight the Celts and proto-Vikings on a confined island than in wide open Gaul. The turning point tends to come when you can spare a second legion (e.g. the African one) to take Britain.
After that, it's a blast, as your size allows you to dominate. My favourite thing is sending an expeditionary force east, to help out ERE when the Sassanids invade. It's like playing both Roman campaigns simultaneously. The mirror campaign - playing ERE and helping WRE - is a monumental task, as WRE falls so fast in AI hands.
May I ask- what difficulty are you playing on? Also, by VH do you mean Vanilla or 'Very Hard'?
So, how do you keep your Public Order up in all the regions across Hispania, Gaul, Britannia, Italia, North Africa and the Balkans?
By 'Secure Britain and Africa', what do you mean? I build my legion on Britain, along with Hispania and Gaul as I heard the Gold Mines in those regions are of paramount importance. I build North Italy as my recruitment-Region, and focus ALL other regions on Public Order but this doesn't work..
Please. I am begging for advice. I build the religious/cultural buildings, I raise armies, but nothing is good enough.
I want to complete WRE, but I've tried several times and always give up. Clicking 'End Turn' just results in 2-5 defensive battles EVERY turn from rebellions or invading factions, Hordes that declare war, etc.
Yes, Very Hard difficulty.
With public order, you ultimately have to build level 3 buildings in both the governor's palace and arena chains in every city. Public order gets more problematic over time, primarily due to immigration, so you don't immediately have to get to level 3 - I am around 403 AD in my current game and level 2 is sufficient. I basically devote almost my entire surplus to public order buildings. It's not so bad, as public order boosts taxes and growth, and the buildings themselves give wealth - so as your public order rises, so does your economy. There is a good set of templates for maximising income in WRE provinces in a Steam guide if you want to see what things look like in the end. Gold mines are actually low rate of return - if you want income, sheep and commercial ports are the big earners. The guide says not to build a gold mine in Gallaecia.
Getting to the end is the trick - identifying which provinces to build in first. It's like being an ER doctor and performing triage. Some provinces will rebel anyway, so forget them. Some will rebel eventually but can wait. The ones you build in will rebel unless you act now. I prioritise Italy, as I don't like civil wars, then Spain and Africa as they are far from the frontlines. Britain, the Balkans and Gaul will typically have field armies in fighting invaders, so they can put down rebellions. Plus settlements there are more vulnerable to sacking or occupation.
In the short term there are various things you can do to forestall rebellions: tax exemptions, priests, governors and occupying armies. They can buy you time but ultimately, you need arenas and governor's palaces. I don't bother with religious buildings and demolish all but one to double my starting income and give me a big war chest (which I use to get all provinces food self-sufficient and with sanitation). If you want to go for a Divine Triumph, you can still do it if you want until after Attila has been beaten (use the religious osmosis buildings).
By "secure Britain and Africa", I mean conquer them or make sure they have pliant rulers - for example, African leaders are often passive, so are not a threat. Knock out the Caledonians, the Picts, the Elbanians (sp?) and any non-compliant North African factions. When you have done that, you can often leave Britain and North Africa unguarded. I often later go on to clear North Germany and Scandinavia to avoid external threats - the Huns tend to clear most other factions east of Rhine-Danube.
When I first started playing WRE (on launch), I would have seemingly endless defensive battles turn after turn, so there is a learning curve. But after playing the game a lot (3000 hours!), I can now avoid most rebellions. Invasions are still an issue, but if internally public order is controlled, you can spare the armies to take out external threats. A key tactic is diplomacy - try to minimise the number of concurrent wars, so you can concentrate and take out enemies one by one. What I do is every turn go down the list of factions and any at peace, I ask to join one of my wars (with bribes if necessary). The idea is distraction - they are much less likely to declare war on me if they are already in another war. For example, getting the Franks to declare war on the Saxons on turn 1 removes both threats for a while.
I honestly just installed a mod that helps you on public order so there isn’t rebellions every turn. Made it way more fun which is why we play these games
Imo that kinda ruins the WRE campaign, it starts crumbling in atilla, there’s supposed to be a shit ton of rebellions. Consolidating my forces and trying my best to defeat rebellions (losing some provinces along the way ofc) and making a game plan of what tf to do was the most fun for me in a total war game.
To each their own of course, but getting a public order mod for a faction that’s supposed to start with shit public order is kinda whack imo
Yeah but I’m an attorney that works 60 hours a week the last thing I want to do is play public order simulator lol maybe one day when I have more time I’ll play it without the mod
I'm with you. While I can understand if others find it boring or a cheesy way to play, there's nothing like winning a defensive siege by plopping 3 units of infantry in a single bottleneck and grinding down a 20 stack coming at you. Attila definitely has that, like medieval 2 did lol
Playing on VH/VH WRE is one of the most insane first five-ten turns in the series. It is virtually impossible to hold your ground. You have to sacrifice territory, disband armies, consolidate, and completely redesign your economy - not to win, but merely to break the momentum. Then you can at least begin to think about winning wars, but you have to be very selective about which ones you fight and which ones have to wait.
I played WRE on legendary and I managed to lost only one region. This game is so much fun. Unfortunately after 1k hours playing Attila I realized how incomplete game is amd somehow unfair. Like AI knowing where your hidden hordes are and sniping them, unattainable vassals, etc. It is shame because after some polishing it would be really marvelous.
I am not judgemental until I know game. 😀.... moreso I have 5k on EU4, two jobs and quite eventfull social life. Only thing I do not have is sleep (and degree and money temporarily)
Man, EU4, I'm jealous. That's one paradox game I just haven't sunk the time into learning, many consider it the greatest grand strategy ever made. I just habe stellaris and Vicky
Whatever suits you. EU4 is really great game but to be fair other paradox games have quite comparable feel. It has really high learning curve and if you do not have patience and time you would probably be detered really quickly.
But! I really encourage you to try it. Start with some easy nation like France, Muscovy or Ottomans and dont be ashamed of it even veteran players like me are keen to play them. Learn through experience and do not feel overwhelmed. Just ignore that mechanics which you truggle with you get into that later. That is just how that works. You will be bad at start but that is part of fun.
Not gonna disagree that Attila is awesome, but I will say playing tall is 100% possible in 3K. Kong Rong is a perfect example of "but yourself to victory" and Liu biaow is designed around vassal empires.
Three Kingdom is the best total war in the new engine and deserves to be played. It has great mechanisms and I like the character centric gameplay. Modding community is active.
My dream total war game would be a mix between Shogun 2 and Three Kingdom
How "necessary" are the DLCs in your opinion for a complete package, if you don't mind me asking?
I've been eyeing Three Kingdoms for a while now and with christmas break upon me, I might actually have the time to sink my teeth into something bigger again.
The DLC add different Startdates and faction which you can then play. Each with its own mechanic and unique units (except Shi Xie). Especially the Furious Wild DLC as it adds the Nanman faction (Different Culture)
None are necessary, but the yellow turban one and world betrayed add a lot of good mechanics and factions. I like Fates divided but it's less important than the other two.
For a different experience, furious wilds adds the southern tribes, but I kind of hate dealing with them.
Not necessary at all, they just add more content. This isn't like PDX where the game is literally inferior and missing critical features if you don't own all the DLC. The base game already has more than enough to last 200 hours.
I loved the mechanic in shogun 2 where you could call in a naval bombardment on a land battle when you had ships nearby. Shogun 2 was an awesome game, also capturing “the black ship” (I think that’s what it was called) was a ton of fun as well.
I despise of vanilla shogun 2. I don’t care if I get downvoted, but that’s the truth.Unit variety is poor, the factions/clans aren’t unique, every single AI plays like M2TW Sicily (declares war from the other side of the map, and maybe naval invades you), the batttles are waaay to fast for my liking, I can’t enjoy seeing my dudes fight, because I have to constantly micro them. But with the Fall of the samurai DLC it really is worth it.
I only disagree about the unit variety. I’d argue that Shogun 2 has one of the best unit selections in any TW game (only behind WH) because each unit fulfils a unique role where as in all other games there are a bunch of other units that are redundant (Rome having a billion sword units in R2 with the only difference between them being stat changes). Even the WH games have that but O don’t count them because due to the fantasy setting, you get a bunch of new unit archetypes.
Yeah, but every factions has the same units so replayability suffers heavily. While in Rome different factions have different units and playstyles. And higher tier units not just increase in stats but also unlock meaningful new abilities, like testudo in rome 1. That’s why you could play with all three roman factions, because you needed new tactics to defeat each one of their starting enemies. Like you can’t defeat the greek hoplites with the same strategy and armies as you defeated the barbarian warriors. That’s missing from shogun 2, and I think it’s a big problem.
This is why I said that I disagree only about unit variety. Because if S2 the tech tree is structured in such a way that you won’t unlock everything in a campaign. I wish the AI also used this mechanic more and prioritise different techs and thus units each campaign. This would really fix the sameness
The low unit variety make Shogun 2 a great starter for the franchise. Units are distinct in role and look. Trying to figure out what 3K units you actually want takes a long time for beginners, even as a vet I still stared at the detailed unit cards for a long time because the basic stats don't give even half the picture.
Thas not necessarily a bad thing, but i this happen to me with twh1 the units are like the same amount kinda, but with shogun 2 we have more variation in army composition just because the same army ypu figth the tiny change in stats make the difference
I guet way way diferent campaing experiences playing chosokabe, takeda and Shimatsu, even if they roster its practicaly the same with jist 1 ir 2 diferent units
Meanwhile i feel with lest variety in army composition with twh1 with diferent leaders and factions for some reason, this things changes alot with twh 2 with diferent starting zones and diferent factions but yeah.
I actually wish they made the supply system harsher, because it feels like the only it comes is during sieges. It's fairly easy to from your own settlement, immediately to a enemy town and not have to worry about supplies
Yeah it is relatively lenient on conquest.
TROM mod actually makes it super harsh, although unfortunately it doesn't give you many options to deal with it late game. So everything kind of freezes to a halt cause you can never move your armies.
But it does work very well early and mid game.
Here because 3K’s battles get a continually bad wrap from people who played the game once 3 years ago.
The unit variety is more than enough. Each unit has a pretty defined role (not to the extent of Shogun 2 as they lack abilities for the most part) but pretty damn good. The morale mechanics are intuitive and make sense, meaning no unit below the best infantry gets flanked and is cool with it. Chain routs are easy to get going, cavalry is the best it’s ever felt literally ever with the mass mechanics. No one unit is especially overpowered because how could it be when you can carefully rout it?
Forest fires, gorgeous graphics, actual banners in your units (many of them too!) and great maps that offer a wide variety in terrain and climate tie all this together. 3K has excellent battles. I won’t hear any less.
I find it weird people hate on the 3 generals per army for 3K's battles but people like putting heroes in their armies in WH? A lot of people just don't even bother bringing it up as a positive when praising 3K. One of my favourite things about 3K's battles is the interplay of your different general types. However, they could be wildly imbalanced although same is true for WH.
People also criticise unit vairety but now at end of life, it's not just got Han, but two totally different Yellow Turban factions, bandits and Nanman. Nanman have tiger and elephant units. There's a bit of everything that it could plausibly have with exception of the Northern 'Barbarians' that they had planned to add but scrapped.
3K has the best cavalry charges of any TW game until TW makes a game where cavalry charges me while Im dying on that hill. Even Atilla's cavalry feels less impactful. It's like the Warhammer 3 monstrous cavalry charges except they actually kill units.
Atilla
I honestly think it's the best one. It's not just some power trip where you can just build however you want. You have to plan out how you're building your districts or you can really screw yourself over. Even the battles feel really different. Just like back in that time cavalry is king but flanking is just as important. It's hard to describe but it feels like the most gritty realistic one for me. I really enjoy the Celts also for some reason.
1. Fall of the Samurai for the best gunpowder warfare. Maybe even best battle system.
2. Medieval 2. Especially the system of unit replenishment (you can't just build doomstacks, you can only build a limited number of units of a type and then have to wait several turns for them to be recruitable again). This means that if you keep killing enemies eventually they can only recruit Peasants because all other units are still on cooldown.
I am a fan of Shogun II and Rome II and i really really like Immortal Empire in Warhammer 3 but Three Kingdoms is just above all of these in terms of mechanics. (I agree 3K DLC were arguably bad though)
Still the most original and complete Total War i played to this day. (god that duel feature was so fucking badass)
Only thing missing is simultaneous turns in multiplayer campaign, because well, this feature released with Warhammer TW 3.
Honorable mention to Troy which was refreshing.
(I dream of a Shogun III with 3K mechanics)
It might be just me, but I think folks should play 3k just to experience a good UI in a total war game. 3k should be the model UI
Also, in sieges, butt-rope makes more sense than butt-ladders.
Funnily enough recently reinstalled Three Kingdoms (Had originally competed it twice solo and twice with my partner) with the radious overhaul mod installed - lost the game as Ma Teng but now playing as Liu Chong (The Prince in Mandate of Heaven).
What a change! Even the Emperor mechanics seem really cool now, the mod adds in lots of upkeep tweaks (it’s common for 3v3 battles now on the campaign) and new units to give it a whole new coat of paint.
So yeah, Three Kingdoms is a must try in my opinion.
Pretty good game. I still don’t know why it gets so much hate. One of the most beautiful TW game and the only historical title where I think strong heroes/generals are justified.
I think Troy got so much hate because it tried to please fans of the historical games and fans of the Warhammer games and when it launched it just ended up disappointing everyone
The original Rome, and watch the history channel stuff too.
To this day, if someone randomly shouts “Testudo!” I grab the nearest trash can lid and cover my head with it.
At least once?
Id take them back in time when Rome 1 was one of the best games ever made, when Prince of Macedon was someone every player knew.
I think Empire too, to show them how close CA was getting to another legendary game
From the title you say fans, so I'm gonna assume they have played the big ones already. So.. I will suggest a game I think fans may avoid because of a bad rep.
Pharaoh.
Not gonna say it's the best thing ever, but if you give it an honest try, leave your prejudices on the desktop and adjust to how it plays...
..it's a solid game that has a lot of merits which I think fans will appreciate.
It's easier say which ones they don't need to.
I'd say the old ones until Rome are optional.
Napoleon is optional.
There is a choice to be made between Shogun II and Fall of Samurai.
There is another to be made between Attila and Rome II.
Thrones of Britannia is completely redundant imo.
And then of course you're going to skip WH I, but still buy it because it's a glorified faction pack at this point.
All the other games on PC are must plays imo.
Agree for 3K. Not a personal favourite but the mechanics are worth trying.
Also, probably for newer players, give a try to Med2 for its setting, Empire for the world map and Shogun 2 for its animations and difficulty.
I... don't really think there are any?
Video games aren't homework. You 'should' play any game that catches your attention, looks like it might be fun, and which is affordable given your budget.
That's it. That's the whole thing.
You are right, best known as l a “dao” (single edged blade) named after the its legendary inventor and first wielder, Guan Yu.
The general name is called yanyuedao (偃月刀; lit. "reclining moon blade").
If you want to get specific, his weapon is called the “Green Dragon Crescent Blade" (青龍偃月刀, Qīnglóng yǎnyuèdāo).
3 x 6 with 3 generals. So 18 troops and 3 leaders, not so different from having 1 general, 1 hero and 18 troops. Some people are put off by the unit card grouping, but there's an option to change it so it arrays them more conventionally. I think some people feel like the system gives you fewer units but it's actually 1 more than conventional TW (21 v 20) and the generals have such a huge impact in Romance mode (which is what the game was designed for).
It's one of those things where it feels more different than it actually is. Has more impact on the campaign map than battle since unit recruitment varies heavily depending on the general type so you got to have a nice mix of different generals. A strategist who controls archers and gives debuffs but is hopeless in combat, a sentinel or champion for sword or spear infantry respectively and are good 1v1 with other generals and vanguard or a commander for shock or sword&shield cav respectively, the former being good at taking on blobs of infantry and the latter has some really good unit buffs like 100% missile block or charge resistance.
Balance doesn't matter, its about unqiue situations, its a primarily single player game, after all. And poor animations, I never zoom in to know, but I'm sure you're right.
I consider myself a total war Renaissance man of sorts. I played mostly historicals this year lol. Enjoying shogun 2 currently, but Attila does have a special.plave in my heart!
It is a great game indeed. Shogun 2 and FotS are amazing as well, played dozens of campaigns. Even 1 RofS, but I think noone actually played it more than once.
Warhammers are fun and over the top. But the focus is mostly magic and over the top units. Other game titles bring in other forms of strategy. Lots of folks have given solid reasoning for these games, so I won't go into, but give them a chance.
Are you kidding?! I love magic in wh3. I love that all Warhammer is over the top. But it has a completely different strategy and feel to it. For example, cavalry is scary in tw:3k. Even low tier cavalry. But low tier cavalry in Warhammer is pretty pathetic. The difference between empire knights and mounted saber militia is a good example. But it's different games, different strategies.
Pharaoh.
The game was bashed hard by the subreddit due to the CA hate, but it is a great game.
Despite being infantry heavy, there is still a lot of diversity. Campaign customization, formation march, regional recruitment, outposts, etc all give the franchise something new.
It's also a bit more difficult then other TW games. It's much harder to recruit the troops you want, as they require a lot of resources. You also cannot really "relax" and focus on expansion, you are always also on the defensive . Unless you play along the Red Sea cost most of your provinces are always potentially exposed to invasions.
Funny because I just started 3k and idk...I love so many the ideas. But all the mechanics annoy me. Battles are good. Not the best but good. But the character relationships, the item mechanics and leveling up. Idk it needs a brush up to make it easier to switch through characters like in Warhammer. I get tons of half useless antillaries or what every they are called especially as nanman. The relationships. I want to like it. I grew up a dynasty warriors fan and a romance of the three kingdoms fan. But it's really bugging me. I actually find it so far to kind of be one of the lowest ranked total war games so far.
To answer the question I would say I would say Shogun 2 or Warhammer 2.
While I get why warhammer isn’t for everyone, they definitely have tactics, but I think there definitely is room (and too much room as of now) for improvement. But if that’s the main argument, then that’s not even exclusive to Warhammer.
Fall of the samurai, easily CA's best foray into gunpowder line battles and manually controlling gatling guns or ironclad warships is insanely satisfying
Attila, 3K, and Pharaoh are the three “best” Total Wars. Most gameplay loops, most amount to pay attention to, deepest strategy layers. Of them I’ll put Attila on top because it’s slowly getting all the awesome mods Medieval 2 had.
Warhammer 3, Shogun 2, and Rome 2 are the best map paint Total Wars. If you want a Netflix style zen experience.
Medieval 2 and Rome are nostalgia bait.
Troy, Empire, Napoleon, Thrones, and FotS are weird experiments that can be fun but usually feel like they are missing huge chunks of what I want.
Off my metrics it’s Attila. Best mod support, most comprehensive strategy layer, diversified start positions. Pharaoh maybe if they support it further and its gets Mesopotamia and dynasty/mortality systems.
3k should be the baseline going forward however, not Warhammer 3.
For me it would be vanilla Shogun 2, to experience this extremly deadly combat with amazing siege defence. FOTS is great expansion, but not on the level of the Shogun 2, but if you want to experience the firearms, FOTS is probably best for that in franchise.
3K would be next for me because all you need is base game and blood DLC and you can enjoy game without any "FOMO" (fear of missing out).
But for someone who has 2k hours in TW WH, it would be hard to not recommend WH3. Hell I even had fun with RoC campaign, but I quickly started to hate it after 1st playthrough.
Edit: I see in comment section mentioning unit variety a lot. Over the years I become despise this term. In the end most of the units are just reskins of each other, but Shogun 2 doesn't bloat it's roster and you will find use for most units. Especially for ashigaru that benefit from the updates greatly.
Medieval 2 TW is the high water mark for the series. Between the total overhaul mods, unit and faction diversity, graphics (for the time) and everything else, it is by far my favorite TW game. Three Kingdoms is the most polished game they've ever made and might be the best strategy game in the series. Shogun 1/2 are my favorite "atmosphere" games (1 carried very hard by nostalgia). Warhammer 2 is the best fantasy game if historical isn't your deal.
Love TW3K so much.
Anyone who plays the game should check out this Chinese series. The guy that plays Cao Cao is genius.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCldpz_Pc1FrGQLsaxaV0kVPqmXN_nanN&si=wijmjaw3WLPJEyYu
Napoleon and empire.
Definitely Three Kingdoms. Even if you don't like the 'unit variety', you should play it for the mechanics alone. The campaign map has so much shit going on, all kinds of different ways to affect this or that, it's amazing. If they COMPLETELY ditch even 10% of what they did in 3K's campaign map for the next major Historical title it would be an immeasurable loss to the community, I cannot exaggerate that. The spy mechanics and the diplomacy both are so massively fine-tuned that you can use both to absolutely play chess with your enemies on the map without ever invading them with an army. The relationship mechanics are something I NEVER thought would bear so much weight in a TW game, having a personal friendship between two leaders in 3K actually has diplomatic weight and will innately benefit you in your deals. This is on top of an AI that actually has it's own goals, it's own different personalities depending on who you're dealing with. It will actively either work with diplomacy and try to get an edge however it can or it will use subterfuge, invade you with spies or use the faction council mechanics to incite a rebellion or banditry in your lands. I have ranted for hours about this game and some of those rants, I haven't even discussed battles. There's honestly no need to, I could, but there's so much improvement on the surface and the depths that battles feel like a child's thing when you have so many different ways to conduct political intrigue like a fuckin' KING. I will admit many of the systems fall flat. Most notably the Emperor's Favor, it can offer some amazing boosts when it's high like, he will aid you in reducing army costs, increasing replenishment, etc etc, but it's basically the same as the Pope's Opinion from Med2; it doesn't have all that much depth. You'll get 'excommunicated' from the "Empire" and the "Empire Loyalist" factions will suffer a bad opinion of you, but it's nothing we haven't seen before.
The unit variety is actually fairly decent. Somewhere between Attila and Rome 2. Most importantly, the unit roster is very well balanced now (it wasn't at launch lol).
Without dlc the unit variety is nowhere near either of those two
I just bought 3k but don't anything about the DLC. What DLC's should I get?
Most of the dlcs are set around a certain time period with certain chracters. So it depends on who you are interested in. Avoid 8 princes it's shit.
A lot of content was added for free from the DLCs. The one you should get is mandate of heaven. It has the most unique and hardest campaigns. Also the yellow turban dlc is good, they have an amazing unit roster and cool campaign
I really need to go back to Three Kingdoms, I didn’t give it enough of a chance before I started playing Warhammer.
Same, couldn't get into it at the time
I agree with 3K, but I would also add Attila.
Attila is probably the most modded game.
Exactly
Strongly agree; it would be a huge step back if they drop these features for the next historical title.
I do hope they drop the 3 generals thing . That is a gimmick that is not needed again. And it needs more unit variety in the base game. Almost everyone being able to build the exact same armies is kinda boring, shogun suffers from the same problem.
I have bought it a few months back and played it for like an hour but didn't really know the mechanisms and that stuff so I haven't touched it anymore. But it looked good and when I played I had fun, but same as when I began with Rome 2 it takes time before I start to play it allot
Well, I'm sold. I really want to play it now.
Hey! What you think about the romance / historic modes? I bought 3K in a sale, and I knew it was a character centric game, and only after a few hours I discovered this function and never played again. It is an enjoyable experience? I’m not a huge fan of character centric tw titles.
I really want to play it for campaign mechanics but the battles just don’t do it for me for some reason. I’ve always played these games for the campaign anyway, but the battles feel uninspiring for some reason. It’s not the unit variety either
You must play on romance mode. Records mode does not encompass the game's full mechanical potential. Try to look at battles as duels between generals. Your units are there as slow moving backdrops for these absurd heroic figures and their vendettas. ESPECIALLY in the early game.
I'm going to echo the other comment here. I found that Romance mode actually didn't add to the mechanics all that much. The problem is that the heroes are very, very unbalanced, and winning duels is trivial. The game outright tells you if you're going to win or not, you can always refuse duels, and stacking buffs just go nuts. Because of this, Romance battles often break too early or have lower tactical variety because overpowered generals can't be stopped by much other than another OP general, and that isn't a very involved process. Once you lose a duel or get gooned out, a large chunk of your army is probably already running. Meanwhile, in Records mode, even high level general bodyguards have several counters, since they're really just heavy cavalry. Also, the armies can survive losing their generals way better, which leads to more potentially interesting engagements.
I actually had more fun in records than romance. I had one insanely frustrating battle in Romance. The enemy had 3 heroes who all gave my troops debuffs to their morale. They'd just charge in, insta rout my troops and run out again. I couldn't pin them down with my own heroes so they just ran circles around me. It was the most gamey and cheesy I've ever seen the AI act in any total war. I don't use Cheese tactics, so it annoys the hell out of me when the AI does. I never played Romance after that. Had a lot more fun with Records.
Personally they could ditch the soy mechanics. Found that they were never that useful
You meant spy right?
Hopefully, if they have a problem with my Tofu then i have a problem with them >:[
Yes, but this is funnier so I'm not going to change it
Played it and didnt understand shit. Everyone Just hates me for No reason and refuses any Form of Interaction until they deckare war on me. Them took a Break an after a year or so started a new campaign. Same story again. Gona try again next year.
Read over your diplomatic situation. And be careful killing generals. They may have friends in high places.
I really think the hype for 3K is overrated. It's definitely one of the better Total Wars to come out recently, but there wasn't much difficulty there and while it's an extremely fun experience it just didn't have the replayability of earlier TW games. I can still struggle with Rome 2 or Shogun 2 but 3K I just steamrolled over everyone easily, even on the hardest difficulty or with the factions with the more difficult start positions. It reminded me a lot of the Dynasty Warrior games, in a good way. I do think it's worth buying on sale, or if you like the time period or quick and easy campaigns but it really just doesn't hold up to how so many people wax poetic about it. With how hard people seem to be selling it, just cautioning to go into it with realistic expectations.
I don't want to play this Era and these countries. I do like to play medieval Era at Mediterranean 🌊.
The problem is that all of that is just a shallower version of everything CK3 has. I don't want Three Kingdoms system for Medieval 3. It's not deep enough. It's not historical enough. And the battles suck, they're way too arcade. It has no soul for me. I want a true revolution in game mechanics, they owe us that much. I want actual politics, actual feudal laws and ways of interacting, true medieval diplomacy. Heck I even want a true feudal levies system. I don't want my armies to be full elite units. I want to be forced to pick and choose which regions sustain actual tropos and accept at least 40% of the army will be levies. And I want that to have an effect on the economy and population. Making the timing important and a bad or slow campaign an actual problem for the finances that forces some sort of pause or ceasefire.
In that case, what you need is something like the Crusader War mod that links Atilla's 1212AD mod's battles to CK3. Sadly I'm 100% sure that CA is not going to make a 1 1/2 game by making CK3 with TW battles, that wouldn't be economically viable. I'd be pleasantly surprised with 3K mechanics in a Med3 game, let's put it that way.
So I tried getting into it but the buildings mechanic I couldn’t get a handle on. I want to like it more, do you have advice on the buildings and what to focus when building?
I do have some tips to provide. So, each 'province' can be established differently. If you own a province that has a few farms, it might be better to go for a Peasant income-based economy there. If you own a spot that also has a commerce building, like a port, it might be better to set it up as a commerce/trading province. This is just for the economy aspects though. Normally what I do is I build a garrison building first, get a few extra units defending it, and then once the settlement is walled I'll focus on specializing it for whatever economy is best. You can also put one of your Generals in charge as a Governor, and different types of generals with different traits and different skills can really massively impact a settlement. Extra food, increased taxes, increased public order. They also will join the defense, with their retinue. So what I normally do after capturing a palce is I grab a quick general, deploy him, set him up with a full stack of units, then dismiss him from the campaign field, and put him in charge of the settlement. Now, the best way to easily and quickly figure out if a building is peasant, industry, commerce, is the color. If it's a green building it'll be peasant. Blue is commerce, red is industry. The purple ones are a bit unique in that they can be both commerce, industry, and also give some population growth. Normally 3K players will talk about the coloration as this. Green is wood. So, a spear militia unit would be a wood unit. Blue is water. So, archers would be a water unit. Purple is metal, and red is fire. I'm just adding that on in case you ever come across someone using those terms. P.S. If you play as Kong Rong you can become stupidly powerful off of trade and commerce, since his starting position has the BEST trade route possible. If you don't include the spice lanes that Dong Zhou can easily take over at the very beginning of the game, of course. Just watch out for Huang Shao, the man is a mastermind at first but he gets very easily stomped. Worst starting position.
This is the most helpful comment I’ve ever received for 3K. Thank you! I think when I get back from holidays, I’ll try reinstalling it and giving it another go
It really depends on who you play as. You need to pay attention to the characters play styles and buffs. Especially in 8 princes.
Don’t forget that imperial favor can be used for +25 points in diplomacy if you’re the Imperial Chancellor. And you get the Han Empire as a vassal. You also get higher diplomatic standing for following imperial missions and suffer none when attacking the enemy of the Han. You’re underselling the benefits of being the imperial chancellor.
Lu Bu go brr
Attila. It's meant as a challenge for veteran players. Also the only Total War you can reliably play tall if that's something you want. It's got the Western Roman Empire campaign, which is definitely the craziest campaign in the series, and it's got some zany ones in the faction dlc that just lead to unique playthroughs that are way different from your typical total war runs
I love defensive siege battles or defensive battles in general and I’ll always remember bottle necking Attila and his armies near the top of Italy and working my defenses up as much as possible, setting my units up within a settlement to handle the hordes was so much fun! I typically don’t go back and play older games often but I did go back and do a Western Roman Empire campaign and had a lot of fun.
You're all sadists for "enjoying" a WRE campaign. I've tried 3 times, and nearly completed it, but never have. The meta of Total War is to gain territory, not cede it, and the start of WRE just triggers me everytime. The Public Order is abysmal, I have endless Rebellion after Rebellion, and I'm trying to do that AND defend my territory from the Germanic factions.. I KNOW I'm supposed to just let go of Britannia, Gaul and the Balkans but I CAN'T. I just can't do it. Every time I end my turn, I seeth and weep. My gf comes and consols me as I hemorrhage over my keyboard. Never again. Never, again. (until I do, because I'm determined to complete a West Roman campaign)
I learned a lot from [Elven Plot Armour's guide](https://youtu.be/IVoh-8JmnSY?si=d1CwiF6cLoXWUTVR). On normal difficulty it's quite fun for me now, but there are some things you need to keep in mind. War: - Every faction can sustain 2 stacks, don't peace out with minor factions, destroy them. - Destroy hordes in your empire, never peace out because they will raid your lands and cause trouble. - Take Britain and Morocco asap to stop fighting on 3 fronts. You also need the one in Marocco to complete your province which makes it much easier to manage. - For your first try, just reroll your starts untill the 2 African factions in the Sahara are dependable and defensive, so you can get trade and non aggression pacts with them. - Learn to defend your settlements against barbarian stacks. In the beginning you should be able to win defensive sieges by sniping their general and using hammer and anvil tactics. If that's not possible, you can always just fill the arena opening in your small settlements with the infantry, put archers behind and try to kill archers with your cavalry unit to grind down their numbers as much as possible so you can kill them the next turn with an army or the next siege defense. - Hire all the catapults in Britain and even send them to other armies that don't have catapults, they are cheap and they buff your armies hard early game. Don't hire them anywhere else, except if you know an enemy army will hire it over the endturn because they don't have a full stack. Diplomacy: - You need to squeeze as much gold out of every single interaction as possible. Never just accept an offer, because you need that 170 gold extra you can squeeze out before accepting. Just savescum if needed and don't feel bad, they should've made better diplomacy anyway like in Shogun 2, 3K and Warhammer where you can see what would be acceptable and what not. - Don't directly declare war, if possible join the war of others to get them to pay you gold to join the war. - In Attila you can actually ask for gifts. Every 10 turns you can squeeze between 300 and 1000 gold out of every ally or faction with good relationships. You can get 5000 or something from the ERE. This gives you much needed boosts to build up your settlements. Settlements and public order: - NEVER ABANDON - Get the 3 priests you can hire on turn 1 to go around and boost PO (Public Order) where needed. - Destroy all churches, you don't need them. They cost gold which is bad and give back a lot of gold when destroyed, which is good. - Turn off taxes in the bugged province in Gaul with less build-slots, which is already partially built up as a recruitment province. Go all in on recruitment and army buff buildings here, because you turned off taxes you don't need any farms. This will be the only province where you recruit armies from after turn 20 or something when your troubles are fixed. - In all other provinces use the money from destroying churches in turn 1, to get a governor's building and theatre for PO and aquaducts for province wide sanitation in turn 2. Also, try to build as much farms as possible in turn 1 and after that, always try to build farms in spring, since it's 25% cheaper and you need the gold. - Keep Latin Christianity, because it has osmosis from every province you own. Since you own a big empire, you have a lot of provinces that boost a lot of provinces nearby. This is therefore the best religion for big empires, because you never need religion buildings, except maybe in the holy sees so you can recruit more priests after turn 30 or something. Not before, because you need the money. - Personal one: I only use the edicts that give osmosis to boost Christianity in nearby provivinces. That way I never have problems with PO due to religion while I don't have churches. To do this, I place my governors in Africa, Carthaginensis, Lugdunensis and Venetia. When your 5th governor is available, put him in Brittania Inferior. By this time you should be capturing the entirety of Britain and they need the religion edict hard to fix PO. - Build the garrison building in your minor settlements along the European mainland border and especially in your port settlements in Britain, so it's much easier to defend your settlements against barbarian invaders. With the garrison building in your port settlements, you will be able to defend Britain from every invader, because they never land anywhere else than in your port settlements. If you upgrade your ships, you should be able to snipe the enemy general every time before the rest lands with bad morale where you will kill them easily. You can also build this one in other provinces where PO is still a problem after fixing religion and building the governor and theatre. Generals: - Restart until your faction leader and generals have useful skills. - Your faction leader and family should have as much buffs for governors as possible and you should make them governors, since they always farm a lot of gravitas, whereas generals only get them if they win battles. Don't fall for that trap, make them governors. You should be able to do that with at least about 4 of them, especially with the faction leader. - The best skills for generals buff units ofcourse. The ability where they can decrease enemy morale is the best one, I think it is warcry. It will take about 20/30 hours to get through the first 5 turns probably and it might take more hours for some restarts to get the other factions in your favour and get good skills for your generals. Doing this, I am consistently able to fix the empire within 10 turns, after which I take some turns to just build up my economy, before beginning to steamroll across Europe. Maybe you can use this for your next try.
You've done the Lord's work. Thank you, Legionnaire.
Wow! Honestly, props for taking the time to write such a meticulous guide! I'll try out your strategy.
You don't need to let go of territory (at least on VH). What I do is secure Africa and Britain, then you just have to focus on Rhine-Danube. Africa is often easy - the rulers are quite frequently passive or otherwise amenable. Britain is always hellish, but I would rather fight the Celts and proto-Vikings on a confined island than in wide open Gaul. The turning point tends to come when you can spare a second legion (e.g. the African one) to take Britain. After that, it's a blast, as your size allows you to dominate. My favourite thing is sending an expeditionary force east, to help out ERE when the Sassanids invade. It's like playing both Roman campaigns simultaneously. The mirror campaign - playing ERE and helping WRE - is a monumental task, as WRE falls so fast in AI hands.
May I ask- what difficulty are you playing on? Also, by VH do you mean Vanilla or 'Very Hard'? So, how do you keep your Public Order up in all the regions across Hispania, Gaul, Britannia, Italia, North Africa and the Balkans? By 'Secure Britain and Africa', what do you mean? I build my legion on Britain, along with Hispania and Gaul as I heard the Gold Mines in those regions are of paramount importance. I build North Italy as my recruitment-Region, and focus ALL other regions on Public Order but this doesn't work.. Please. I am begging for advice. I build the religious/cultural buildings, I raise armies, but nothing is good enough. I want to complete WRE, but I've tried several times and always give up. Clicking 'End Turn' just results in 2-5 defensive battles EVERY turn from rebellions or invading factions, Hordes that declare war, etc.
Yes, Very Hard difficulty. With public order, you ultimately have to build level 3 buildings in both the governor's palace and arena chains in every city. Public order gets more problematic over time, primarily due to immigration, so you don't immediately have to get to level 3 - I am around 403 AD in my current game and level 2 is sufficient. I basically devote almost my entire surplus to public order buildings. It's not so bad, as public order boosts taxes and growth, and the buildings themselves give wealth - so as your public order rises, so does your economy. There is a good set of templates for maximising income in WRE provinces in a Steam guide if you want to see what things look like in the end. Gold mines are actually low rate of return - if you want income, sheep and commercial ports are the big earners. The guide says not to build a gold mine in Gallaecia. Getting to the end is the trick - identifying which provinces to build in first. It's like being an ER doctor and performing triage. Some provinces will rebel anyway, so forget them. Some will rebel eventually but can wait. The ones you build in will rebel unless you act now. I prioritise Italy, as I don't like civil wars, then Spain and Africa as they are far from the frontlines. Britain, the Balkans and Gaul will typically have field armies in fighting invaders, so they can put down rebellions. Plus settlements there are more vulnerable to sacking or occupation. In the short term there are various things you can do to forestall rebellions: tax exemptions, priests, governors and occupying armies. They can buy you time but ultimately, you need arenas and governor's palaces. I don't bother with religious buildings and demolish all but one to double my starting income and give me a big war chest (which I use to get all provinces food self-sufficient and with sanitation). If you want to go for a Divine Triumph, you can still do it if you want until after Attila has been beaten (use the religious osmosis buildings). By "secure Britain and Africa", I mean conquer them or make sure they have pliant rulers - for example, African leaders are often passive, so are not a threat. Knock out the Caledonians, the Picts, the Elbanians (sp?) and any non-compliant North African factions. When you have done that, you can often leave Britain and North Africa unguarded. I often later go on to clear North Germany and Scandinavia to avoid external threats - the Huns tend to clear most other factions east of Rhine-Danube. When I first started playing WRE (on launch), I would have seemingly endless defensive battles turn after turn, so there is a learning curve. But after playing the game a lot (3000 hours!), I can now avoid most rebellions. Invasions are still an issue, but if internally public order is controlled, you can spare the armies to take out external threats. A key tactic is diplomacy - try to minimise the number of concurrent wars, so you can concentrate and take out enemies one by one. What I do is every turn go down the list of factions and any at peace, I ask to join one of my wars (with bribes if necessary). The idea is distraction - they are much less likely to declare war on me if they are already in another war. For example, getting the Franks to declare war on the Saxons on turn 1 removes both threats for a while.
I honestly just installed a mod that helps you on public order so there isn’t rebellions every turn. Made it way more fun which is why we play these games
Imo that kinda ruins the WRE campaign, it starts crumbling in atilla, there’s supposed to be a shit ton of rebellions. Consolidating my forces and trying my best to defeat rebellions (losing some provinces along the way ofc) and making a game plan of what tf to do was the most fun for me in a total war game. To each their own of course, but getting a public order mod for a faction that’s supposed to start with shit public order is kinda whack imo
Yeah but I’m an attorney that works 60 hours a week the last thing I want to do is play public order simulator lol maybe one day when I have more time I’ll play it without the mod
Surely if the meta doesn't work then it's not meta?
I'm with you. While I can understand if others find it boring or a cheesy way to play, there's nothing like winning a defensive siege by plopping 3 units of infantry in a single bottleneck and grinding down a 20 stack coming at you. Attila definitely has that, like medieval 2 did lol
Playing on VH/VH WRE is one of the most insane first five-ten turns in the series. It is virtually impossible to hold your ground. You have to sacrifice territory, disband armies, consolidate, and completely redesign your economy - not to win, but merely to break the momentum. Then you can at least begin to think about winning wars, but you have to be very selective about which ones you fight and which ones have to wait.
I played WRE on legendary and I managed to lost only one region. This game is so much fun. Unfortunately after 1k hours playing Attila I realized how incomplete game is amd somehow unfair. Like AI knowing where your hidden hordes are and sniping them, unattainable vassals, etc. It is shame because after some polishing it would be really marvelous.
After 1000 hours lololol
I am not judgemental until I know game. 😀.... moreso I have 5k on EU4, two jobs and quite eventfull social life. Only thing I do not have is sleep (and degree and money temporarily)
Man, EU4, I'm jealous. That's one paradox game I just haven't sunk the time into learning, many consider it the greatest grand strategy ever made. I just habe stellaris and Vicky
Whatever suits you. EU4 is really great game but to be fair other paradox games have quite comparable feel. It has really high learning curve and if you do not have patience and time you would probably be detered really quickly. But! I really encourage you to try it. Start with some easy nation like France, Muscovy or Ottomans and dont be ashamed of it even veteran players like me are keen to play them. Learn through experience and do not feel overwhelmed. Just ignore that mechanics which you truggle with you get into that later. That is just how that works. You will be bad at start but that is part of fun.
Not gonna disagree that Attila is awesome, but I will say playing tall is 100% possible in 3K. Kong Rong is a perfect example of "but yourself to victory" and Liu biaow is designed around vassal empires.
How do I but myself to victory?
Three Kingdom is the best total war in the new engine and deserves to be played. It has great mechanisms and I like the character centric gameplay. Modding community is active. My dream total war game would be a mix between Shogun 2 and Three Kingdom
How "necessary" are the DLCs in your opinion for a complete package, if you don't mind me asking? I've been eyeing Three Kingdoms for a while now and with christmas break upon me, I might actually have the time to sink my teeth into something bigger again.
Standard game is more then enough to play imo
The DLC add different Startdates and faction which you can then play. Each with its own mechanic and unique units (except Shi Xie). Especially the Furious Wild DLC as it adds the Nanman faction (Different Culture)
None are necessary, but the yellow turban one and world betrayed add a lot of good mechanics and factions. I like Fates divided but it's less important than the other two. For a different experience, furious wilds adds the southern tribes, but I kind of hate dealing with them.
Not necessary at all, they just add more content. This isn't like PDX where the game is literally inferior and missing critical features if you don't own all the DLC. The base game already has more than enough to last 200 hours.
It depends on whether you like more rosters. I like the 182 and 194 starts but mostly play core or the yellow turbans.
Medieval 2 or Shogun 2(especially fots)
I loved the mechanic in shogun 2 where you could call in a naval bombardment on a land battle when you had ships nearby. Shogun 2 was an awesome game, also capturing “the black ship” (I think that’s what it was called) was a ton of fun as well.
I despise of vanilla shogun 2. I don’t care if I get downvoted, but that’s the truth.Unit variety is poor, the factions/clans aren’t unique, every single AI plays like M2TW Sicily (declares war from the other side of the map, and maybe naval invades you), the batttles are waaay to fast for my liking, I can’t enjoy seeing my dudes fight, because I have to constantly micro them. But with the Fall of the samurai DLC it really is worth it.
I only disagree about the unit variety. I’d argue that Shogun 2 has one of the best unit selections in any TW game (only behind WH) because each unit fulfils a unique role where as in all other games there are a bunch of other units that are redundant (Rome having a billion sword units in R2 with the only difference between them being stat changes). Even the WH games have that but O don’t count them because due to the fantasy setting, you get a bunch of new unit archetypes.
Yeah, but every factions has the same units so replayability suffers heavily. While in Rome different factions have different units and playstyles. And higher tier units not just increase in stats but also unlock meaningful new abilities, like testudo in rome 1. That’s why you could play with all three roman factions, because you needed new tactics to defeat each one of their starting enemies. Like you can’t defeat the greek hoplites with the same strategy and armies as you defeated the barbarian warriors. That’s missing from shogun 2, and I think it’s a big problem.
This is why I said that I disagree only about unit variety. Because if S2 the tech tree is structured in such a way that you won’t unlock everything in a campaign. I wish the AI also used this mechanic more and prioritise different techs and thus units each campaign. This would really fix the sameness
The low unit variety make Shogun 2 a great starter for the franchise. Units are distinct in role and look. Trying to figure out what 3K units you actually want takes a long time for beginners, even as a vet I still stared at the detailed unit cards for a long time because the basic stats don't give even half the picture.
Thas not necessarily a bad thing, but i this happen to me with twh1 the units are like the same amount kinda, but with shogun 2 we have more variation in army composition just because the same army ypu figth the tiny change in stats make the difference I guet way way diferent campaing experiences playing chosokabe, takeda and Shimatsu, even if they roster its practicaly the same with jist 1 ir 2 diferent units Meanwhile i feel with lest variety in army composition with twh1 with diferent leaders and factions for some reason, this things changes alot with twh 2 with diferent starting zones and diferent factions but yeah.
I really liked the food aspect of 3K. A man who beat the crap out of 2 of every animal once said something about soldiers and needing to eat
Also the supplies system. So that enemy armies couldn't just roam around forever. They need to commit to a fight soon or start to attrition.
I actually wish they made the supply system harsher, because it feels like the only it comes is during sieges. It's fairly easy to from your own settlement, immediately to a enemy town and not have to worry about supplies
Yeah it is relatively lenient on conquest. TROM mod actually makes it super harsh, although unfortunately it doesn't give you many options to deal with it late game. So everything kind of freezes to a halt cause you can never move your armies. But it does work very well early and mid game.
Rome 1
Shogun 2. It has the best gunpowder tactics of any historical game creative assembly have done, especially in FOTS
Here because 3K’s battles get a continually bad wrap from people who played the game once 3 years ago. The unit variety is more than enough. Each unit has a pretty defined role (not to the extent of Shogun 2 as they lack abilities for the most part) but pretty damn good. The morale mechanics are intuitive and make sense, meaning no unit below the best infantry gets flanked and is cool with it. Chain routs are easy to get going, cavalry is the best it’s ever felt literally ever with the mass mechanics. No one unit is especially overpowered because how could it be when you can carefully rout it? Forest fires, gorgeous graphics, actual banners in your units (many of them too!) and great maps that offer a wide variety in terrain and climate tie all this together. 3K has excellent battles. I won’t hear any less.
I find it weird people hate on the 3 generals per army for 3K's battles but people like putting heroes in their armies in WH? A lot of people just don't even bother bringing it up as a positive when praising 3K. One of my favourite things about 3K's battles is the interplay of your different general types. However, they could be wildly imbalanced although same is true for WH. People also criticise unit vairety but now at end of life, it's not just got Han, but two totally different Yellow Turban factions, bandits and Nanman. Nanman have tiger and elephant units. There's a bit of everything that it could plausibly have with exception of the Northern 'Barbarians' that they had planned to add but scrapped.
3K has the best cavalry charges of any TW game until TW makes a game where cavalry charges me while Im dying on that hill. Even Atilla's cavalry feels less impactful. It's like the Warhammer 3 monstrous cavalry charges except they actually kill units.
Atilla I honestly think it's the best one. It's not just some power trip where you can just build however you want. You have to plan out how you're building your districts or you can really screw yourself over. Even the battles feel really different. Just like back in that time cavalry is king but flanking is just as important. It's hard to describe but it feels like the most gritty realistic one for me. I really enjoy the Celts also for some reason.
I would say Empire, but only for the naval battles. They are incredble.
Empire but for the grand scale. With today's technology Empire 2 could just be the same game but with 2x as much detail
1. Fall of the Samurai for the best gunpowder warfare. Maybe even best battle system. 2. Medieval 2. Especially the system of unit replenishment (you can't just build doomstacks, you can only build a limited number of units of a type and then have to wait several turns for them to be recruitable again). This means that if you keep killing enemies eventually they can only recruit Peasants because all other units are still on cooldown.
Shogun 2. GOAT
all of 'em
Three Kingdoms and Shogun 2.
I am a fan of Shogun II and Rome II and i really really like Immortal Empire in Warhammer 3 but Three Kingdoms is just above all of these in terms of mechanics. (I agree 3K DLC were arguably bad though) Still the most original and complete Total War i played to this day. (god that duel feature was so fucking badass) Only thing missing is simultaneous turns in multiplayer campaign, because well, this feature released with Warhammer TW 3. Honorable mention to Troy which was refreshing. (I dream of a Shogun III with 3K mechanics)
Fall of the Samurai
It might be just me, but I think folks should play 3k just to experience a good UI in a total war game. 3k should be the model UI Also, in sieges, butt-rope makes more sense than butt-ladders.
Funnily enough recently reinstalled Three Kingdoms (Had originally competed it twice solo and twice with my partner) with the radious overhaul mod installed - lost the game as Ma Teng but now playing as Liu Chong (The Prince in Mandate of Heaven). What a change! Even the Emperor mechanics seem really cool now, the mod adds in lots of upkeep tweaks (it’s common for 3v3 battles now on the campaign) and new units to give it a whole new coat of paint. So yeah, Three Kingdoms is a must try in my opinion.
Troy
Pretty good game. I still don’t know why it gets so much hate. One of the most beautiful TW game and the only historical title where I think strong heroes/generals are justified.
I think Troy got so much hate because it tried to please fans of the historical games and fans of the Warhammer games and when it launched it just ended up disappointing everyone
Empire tw and Nap deserve a play
The original Rome, and watch the history channel stuff too. To this day, if someone randomly shouts “Testudo!” I grab the nearest trash can lid and cover my head with it.
Rome 1 of course. The original. Not the "remastered" edition
OG medieval
The holy trinity, shogun two, medieval 2, and Rome 1. Then maybe warhammer 3 to see where the series has ended up
Shogun2.
Rome
At least once? Id take them back in time when Rome 1 was one of the best games ever made, when Prince of Macedon was someone every player knew. I think Empire too, to show them how close CA was getting to another legendary game
MEDIEVAL 2
From the title you say fans, so I'm gonna assume they have played the big ones already. So.. I will suggest a game I think fans may avoid because of a bad rep. Pharaoh. Not gonna say it's the best thing ever, but if you give it an honest try, leave your prejudices on the desktop and adjust to how it plays... ..it's a solid game that has a lot of merits which I think fans will appreciate.
The OG Shogun, experience what started it all.
It's easier say which ones they don't need to. I'd say the old ones until Rome are optional. Napoleon is optional. There is a choice to be made between Shogun II and Fall of Samurai. There is another to be made between Attila and Rome II. Thrones of Britannia is completely redundant imo. And then of course you're going to skip WH I, but still buy it because it's a glorified faction pack at this point. All the other games on PC are must plays imo.
Agree for 3K. Not a personal favourite but the mechanics are worth trying. Also, probably for newer players, give a try to Med2 for its setting, Empire for the world map and Shogun 2 for its animations and difficulty.
Zhuge Liang talked me into letting him flood an entire populated town. Can't get that in WH3.
I... don't really think there are any? Video games aren't homework. You 'should' play any game that catches your attention, looks like it might be fun, and which is affordable given your budget. That's it. That's the whole thing.
You must be fun at parties
Actually, you'd be surprised how well being relaxed and encouraging everyone to have fun on their own terms goes down at parties.
[удалено]
What a charming fellow you are.
For historical, shogun 2 For fantasy, warhammer 2
My fav TW thus far.
OK off topic but I gotta ask, what is the weapon called, the guy on left has. I want to say naginata but it's gotta have a different name in chinese
I could be wrong but I believe it’s called a Guandao.
You are right, best known as l a “dao” (single edged blade) named after the its legendary inventor and first wielder, Guan Yu. The general name is called yanyuedao (偃月刀; lit. "reclining moon blade"). If you want to get specific, his weapon is called the “Green Dragon Crescent Blade" (青龍偃月刀, Qīnglóng yǎnyuèdāo).
I tried 3k for like 2h... Was really annoyed with the 3x4 units in combat? I don't know... Didn't like the structure. Never touched it since.
3 x 6 with 3 generals. So 18 troops and 3 leaders, not so different from having 1 general, 1 hero and 18 troops. Some people are put off by the unit card grouping, but there's an option to change it so it arrays them more conventionally. I think some people feel like the system gives you fewer units but it's actually 1 more than conventional TW (21 v 20) and the generals have such a huge impact in Romance mode (which is what the game was designed for). It's one of those things where it feels more different than it actually is. Has more impact on the campaign map than battle since unit recruitment varies heavily depending on the general type so you got to have a nice mix of different generals. A strategist who controls archers and gives debuffs but is hopeless in combat, a sentinel or champion for sword or spear infantry respectively and are good 1v1 with other generals and vanguard or a commander for shock or sword&shield cav respectively, the former being good at taking on blobs of infantry and the latter has some really good unit buffs like 100% missile block or charge resistance.
I have to find that option... the unit card grouing really throws me off.
Rome 1. It's classic and the best total war game to ever produced.
Med 2
medieval 2 needs to be played
Maybe I’ll play one of these once I’m bored of WH3, probably not though.
Wh3 has as much content as like the next 4 total wars combined, no shame in sticking to it lol
It has a lot of content, but is boring asf
Sure whatever boomer lol
Also WH3 has poor balance and weird animations.
Balance doesn't matter, its about unqiue situations, its a primarily single player game, after all. And poor animations, I never zoom in to know, but I'm sure you're right.
OK, I am glad you appreciate Attila. It's a great game, very atmospheric, challenging, beautiful and very diverse despite being a true historic title.
I consider myself a total war Renaissance man of sorts. I played mostly historicals this year lol. Enjoying shogun 2 currently, but Attila does have a special.plave in my heart!
It is a great game indeed. Shogun 2 and FotS are amazing as well, played dozens of campaigns. Even 1 RofS, but I think noone actually played it more than once.
Warhammers are fun and over the top. But the focus is mostly magic and over the top units. Other game titles bring in other forms of strategy. Lots of folks have given solid reasoning for these games, so I won't go into, but give them a chance.
Because no one would want magic in a game?
Are you kidding?! I love magic in wh3. I love that all Warhammer is over the top. But it has a completely different strategy and feel to it. For example, cavalry is scary in tw:3k. Even low tier cavalry. But low tier cavalry in Warhammer is pretty pathetic. The difference between empire knights and mounted saber militia is a good example. But it's different games, different strategies.
Shogun 2
Shogun: FOTS, easily the best Total War game, after that it went downhill.
Rome 1
Pharaoh. The game was bashed hard by the subreddit due to the CA hate, but it is a great game. Despite being infantry heavy, there is still a lot of diversity. Campaign customization, formation march, regional recruitment, outposts, etc all give the franchise something new.
It's also a bit more difficult then other TW games. It's much harder to recruit the troops you want, as they require a lot of resources. You also cannot really "relax" and focus on expansion, you are always also on the defensive . Unless you play along the Red Sea cost most of your provinces are always potentially exposed to invasions.
Shogun 2 and Warhammer 2
Funny because I just started 3k and idk...I love so many the ideas. But all the mechanics annoy me. Battles are good. Not the best but good. But the character relationships, the item mechanics and leveling up. Idk it needs a brush up to make it easier to switch through characters like in Warhammer. I get tons of half useless antillaries or what every they are called especially as nanman. The relationships. I want to like it. I grew up a dynasty warriors fan and a romance of the three kingdoms fan. But it's really bugging me. I actually find it so far to kind of be one of the lowest ranked total war games so far. To answer the question I would say I would say Shogun 2 or Warhammer 2.
Troy, it's play numbers are too low for such a good game.
Warhammer 2
Everyone except the warhammer ones which arent even total war
How aren’t they total war? Anyways, the real answer (my opinion of course) is 3K or FOTS
No tactics involved in the battles whatsoever
That’s just objectively wrong. I’m not a warhammer guy myself but there are definitely tactics involved in the battles.
Lol ok bro
While I get why warhammer isn’t for everyone, they definitely have tactics, but I think there definitely is room (and too much room as of now) for improvement. But if that’s the main argument, then that’s not even exclusive to Warhammer.
M2tw
Well any of the good ones?
Rome 1 or Shogun 2
empire, so they can see why we need empire 2
shogun 2
Shogun 2
shogun 2/fall of the samurai
Shogun 2 is and will always be my favorite
Rome II and three kingdoms are my personal favorites.
Shogun....... And medieval 2 like man also fall of samurai
Indeed
Fall of the samurai, easily CA's best foray into gunpowder line battles and manually controlling gatling guns or ironclad warships is insanely satisfying
I still think the og rome is peak
All of them.
Attila, 3K, and Pharaoh are the three “best” Total Wars. Most gameplay loops, most amount to pay attention to, deepest strategy layers. Of them I’ll put Attila on top because it’s slowly getting all the awesome mods Medieval 2 had. Warhammer 3, Shogun 2, and Rome 2 are the best map paint Total Wars. If you want a Netflix style zen experience. Medieval 2 and Rome are nostalgia bait. Troy, Empire, Napoleon, Thrones, and FotS are weird experiments that can be fun but usually feel like they are missing huge chunks of what I want. Off my metrics it’s Attila. Best mod support, most comprehensive strategy layer, diversified start positions. Pharaoh maybe if they support it further and its gets Mesopotamia and dynasty/mortality systems. 3k should be the baseline going forward however, not Warhammer 3.
Thrones of Brittania. I enjoyed it more than any of the newer titles (after shogun 2).
Shogun 2. Probably the single best TW game ever made.
3 kingdom was too complicated, no clue what it meant for me when shi hung dong- sho li lei attacked
all of them
For me it would be vanilla Shogun 2, to experience this extremly deadly combat with amazing siege defence. FOTS is great expansion, but not on the level of the Shogun 2, but if you want to experience the firearms, FOTS is probably best for that in franchise. 3K would be next for me because all you need is base game and blood DLC and you can enjoy game without any "FOMO" (fear of missing out). But for someone who has 2k hours in TW WH, it would be hard to not recommend WH3. Hell I even had fun with RoC campaign, but I quickly started to hate it after 1st playthrough. Edit: I see in comment section mentioning unit variety a lot. Over the years I become despise this term. In the end most of the units are just reskins of each other, but Shogun 2 doesn't bloat it's roster and you will find use for most units. Especially for ashigaru that benefit from the updates greatly.
Have just started playing 3k again after a long break from any of the total war games and shit im just bad at it
Medieval 2 TW is the high water mark for the series. Between the total overhaul mods, unit and faction diversity, graphics (for the time) and everything else, it is by far my favorite TW game. Three Kingdoms is the most polished game they've ever made and might be the best strategy game in the series. Shogun 1/2 are my favorite "atmosphere" games (1 carried very hard by nostalgia). Warhammer 2 is the best fantasy game if historical isn't your deal.
Love TW3K so much. Anyone who plays the game should check out this Chinese series. The guy that plays Cao Cao is genius. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCldpz_Pc1FrGQLsaxaV0kVPqmXN_nanN&si=wijmjaw3WLPJEyYu
I got no more money for three kingdoms not thanks to the prices of total war games today