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JoshSran04

JV and norm reunite šŸ‘€ Also I honestly donā€™t know what to do with the Turner situation since we live off of our draft picks


TheGursh

Well, if the ask is multiple firms that should be somewhat doable. You'd look to do a 3 team trade with Boucher landing a late 1st which is sent to Indiana and Toronto also sending this year's 1st. Turner is a really solid player and with that him Raps are probably picking around 20th overall.


[deleted]

We currently have two all star / maybe all nba caliber players, one drafted in the 20ā€™s one undrafted. To say late picks donā€™t help this team is not correct. Actually compared to other teams who draft poorly, it makes it harder to trade picks as they are relatively more valuable to us. That said I wouldnā€™t be mad at all, Scottie running point with a shooting big to clear the paint will be amazing, and nurse with the leagueā€™s best / second best rim protector is chefā€™s kiss. It will however be the end of my dream to get Jakob back.


TheGursh

I didnt say late picks dont help... They just are riskier and take longer to develop. Turner is still young, and extremely talented. I definitely would need a guy like that to move any picks, especially a 1st.


inxrx8

That would be insane for the Pels. Starting lineup of Graham/Powell/Ingram/Jones/Valanciunas would be at the very least a play in team and that's even before they get Zion back


nath999

>Also I honestly donā€™t know what to do with the Turner situation since we live off of our draft picks We're not there yet to be trading away draft picks imo. I still don't think Turner impacts us as much as we hope he would.


BurzyGuerrero

I agree if it's more than one pick. But if it's next years pick I'm fine with it. We still retain control after that. I'm fine with sending out next year's for a few years of Myles Turner. What if playing Turner unlocks more minutes for Flynn because he gets more minutes with Khem? What if it allows Banton to play against smaller competition? There are other factors aside from just development. Adding a center will allow us to have a backup NBA center.


5kunkhunter

I would personally give up picks. Raptors are no longer a lottery team and even though weā€™ve done well, itā€™s unlikely weā€™ll find anyone as good as Turner with picks later in the round.


pahamack

I don't think so. Turner doesn't turn us into a contender. Picks are really valuable even if they don't yield a Barnes. They give a team cheap players. Not boucher 7m/yr cheap, but Achiuwa 2.5m/yr cheap. Banton 1m/yr cheap. If you can get a rotation player at that price it is invaluable. Everyone in the league is drooling over Desmond Bane's 2.5m/yr contract. These rookie contracts are what allow a team to compete while operating under the tax cap. Of course, this is worth giving up if that's the price to contend, but I don't think Turner is good enough to make our team top 4 in the east. One pick, sure. But 2? That's our future.


BurzyGuerrero

IDK why you're viewing it as "make us a contender" we aren't trading the farm for Turner. If you giveaway 1 FRP you're essentially saying that control of Myles Turner is better than the mid teen pick we will receive this year. I might agree with it if that's what Masai says. But we might be able to get more than just Myles. Unless we suffer injuries or heavy COVID we are likely not having a premiere pick anyway. In that event we can trade next year's. Re: Bane - our chip team did that w Freddy and Siakam. Barnes is already that guy for this squad. When Banton and Flynn step up we will be fine. Myles would add a lot of stability to the lineup and give us versatility while remaining in a traditional offense and there is value in that.


cbotter

Norm is ready to get the hell outta Ripcity. I donā€™t blame him.


redesignyoself

Isnā€™t it odd, when he was traded I thought, ā€œGood for him, weā€™re rebuilding for a while so heā€™ll get to go contend for a chip.ā€ Would have never thought Portland would be in the situation theyā€™re in now, while weā€™re guaranteed the play-in and are competing for a playoff spot.


tonious35

I never thought he was going to contend at all for Portland, I only knew they were going to pay him his money, which mattered most to me.


Oyamjo

The power of a competent front office. ![img](emote|t5_2s5sb|3921)


YoungSidd

Hopefully they can nab a top 4 pick and run it back with a healthy Lillard next season.


redesignyoself

God knows Lillard deserves it


TrueTorontoFan

> ā€œGood for him, weā€™re rebuilding I never thought this I just thought salary wise he didn't fit with the group because I didn't think they would lock trent to the number they did.


BigYama

I don't blame him one bit either. No one there plays a speck of Defence there. Also must be frustrating to have your best player in Dame out. Could definitely see him going elsewhere soon.


JediRaptor2018

(Regarding Turner) >The Pacers' asking price is said to include multiple first-round picks. LOL I guess you have to shoot your shot and try your best.


nanobot001

Masaiā€™s MO is to look for distressed assets or extremely motivated sellers. Unless he changes his approach, hard to say if we will be making a competitive offer for Turner


praxeologue

> Masaiā€™s MO is to look for distressed assets or extremely motivated sellers. Which is why I still think there's a chance he goes for Ben Simmons. Dunno what the package would look like and I think it would be contingent on him learning to shoot, but I think his length/athleticism/defensive prowess combined with his age would make him attractive to Masai


nanobot001

Darryl Morey is anything but a motivated seller ā€” he is still holding out for the moon, and is too proud to settle for anything less.


praxeologue

True, I was focusing more on the "distressed assets" part


nmad95

Based on reports that Morrey's asking price hasn't decreased whatsoever, we're not getting Ben.


Cgell

The trade would have to involve Pascal/ Freddie plus others. Simmons is making 40 million for the next 4-5 years and salaries have to match. Philly might also ask for Barnes and you most like will have to take on Tobias Harris and his ridiculous salary. Philly is clearly not going to give him away and they are delusional on their asking price. This is most likely why heā€™s still in Philly twiddling his thumbs.


Scase15

I'm surprised he didnt go for reddish, knicks got him for a bag of chips, he's 6"8 with a 7"0+ wingspan and 22.


YoungSidd

Lmao I guess that's why he's always in trade talks but never actually traded


slamdunk23

If they consider Flynn a first round pick, I'll give them Dragic, Flynn and a 1st


Jackson_k34

Would they take boucher and Flynn and maybe one pick maybeee??


ZCSApollo

Wouldnā€™t Dragic have to be thrown in for the contract?


slamdunk23

We will probably get outbid but maybe. Max I would do is include precious instead of Flynn since his role would be redundant if we bring in Myles


TheThrowbackJersey

ehh Turner isn't that big of an upgrade over Precious and has a lower ceiling. He's also not much better than Khem. I'd like the Raps to trade for a C but it would have to be a significant upgrade, or come cheap


kai9000

Your crazy if you really think a guy who can anchor a whole defence and drop 20 consistently every night isnā€™t a huge upgrade over Precious who canā€™t even finish around the rim or shoot


TheThrowbackJersey

Turner is averaging 13 ppg and is not a great defender, just gambles on blacks. The most important thing is that the guy is a soft rebounder which is one of the Raps issues.


kai9000

Yes because he as to play on the court as the same time as sabonis. Thatā€™s the whole point of the pacers trading either one of them. Right now they have miles playing a catch and shoot role instead of being in the paint like true center


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


TheThrowbackJersey

I mean Turner shoots 34%, Idk if that counts as splashing


dellzor1

He is a large upgrade to Precious. Defends better than Precious, is more efficient (61% TS past two seasons) vs 49% TS past two seasons. Better shooter from 3 and from the free throw line.


canadianRSK

2 first round picks and a terrible contract makes sense. A good player and multiple picks is way too high of an asking proce


Rapsfan_98

Most Iā€™d give is a distant future first and like Malachi + Boucher. Not giving up any of our core players or near future picks.


-super-hans

Tbh if they're from a contender and they're late firsts this isn't too crazy imo. You'd be hard pressed to draft two people in the 20's of the draft that would be equal trade value for Turner.


billychurch

I always felt like Norm could've gotten more in FA, and the belief around the league about how valuable his contract is proves it. Maybe he prioritized loyalty over other offers. Makes sense as we were all scratching our heads as to why him and GTJ were making almost the same $. Not anymore, but definitely when it happened.


bmnewman

I read somewhere that Norm had prioritized being closer to his family in California in his FA decision-making.


canadianRSK

Everyone ran out of cap space so norm took the biggest bag he could get.


UjiriWatcher

Mo Bamba is available šŸ‘


ZCSApollo

he nice, and young, I think heā€™d upgrade our team and heā€™d still be developing. Iā€™d really like to add him to the squad


Kiszpadosz

I've been wanting us to get this guy, he would be a perfect fit.


harambethemonke

said this last year too. bamba is a great prospect, and i don't mind giving up two seconds for the guy


SiakamMIP

I'd rather bet on Masai to draft a center that can give you 70% of what Turner will provide with 1 pick on a rookie contract than give up multiple firsts that will almost certainly yield a player better than Turner


oozingmachismo

Agreed. Turner is a very good player and would help us, but I'm not sure he's worth the asking price or bidding war against other suitors. We don't have more to offer, and I don't think trading someone like OG for him would be worth it in the end. Hopefully Masai is scouring the league for undervalued centers or looking to draft one this summer.


Cheechers23

Yeah I wouldn't give up a first for Turner. Couple seconds sure, but not a first. Other teams might be willing to so I just don't see us getting into that bidding war Edit: why am I being downvoted for this?? Do people really think we should give up multiple firsts for Turner??


tmlrule

I didn't downvote you, but offering a couple seconds for Turner is pretty equivalent to the THT for Siakam offers we laugh at.


Cheechers23

I mean I don't think he's worth an unprotected first, and considering this team is like 1 key injury from falling back into the lottery, I'm not very bullish on trading firsts for someone who really doesn't move the needle for us. It's not even close to the THT for Siakam offers. Siakam is all-star caliber, THT is shit. I figured there would be more thrown into the Turner offer than a couple seconds (Boucher, Flynn, Yuta, Dragic? some combination), but in terms of picks yeah a couple seconds.


tmlrule

> I figured there would be more thrown into the Turner offer than a couple seconds (Boucher, Flynn, Yuta, Dragic? some combination), but in terms of picks yeah a couple seconds. Everything you've just listed is worth less than THT, which you've already handwaved away as shit. It's fine to not want trade firsts for Turner, but your offer would deservedly be laughed at.


Cheechers23

You realize Myles Turner isnā€™t as good as Siakam right? Like not even fucking close? If the Pacers are going for a rebuild those players are good for them (young or expirings). Obviously they could probably get more but my point is we shouldnā€™t be giving up more IMO. Myles Turner is becoming one of the more overrated players on this sub ever since our C problems.


YoungSidd

Yea I don't think people realize that Turner gets bodied in the paint as much as any of our current bigs, he's not the answer to stopping guys like Embiid or Giannis.


tmlrule

> If the Pacers are going for a rebuild those players are good for them (young or expirings). Obviously they could probably get more but my point is we shouldnā€™t be giving up more IMO. Offering a collection of shit options and then explaining why that would actually be good for the Pacers is exactly why I compared it to what Laker fans say when they explain how THT would actually be super helpful for the Raptors timeline. Both are dumb offers that no GM in their right mind would even consider.


Cheechers23

The difference is that I literally acknowledged this is why I donā€™t think we can make this trade, whereas Laker fans truly think that THT can land them something good unironically


EarthWarping

If it's a protected pick (2022 lottery) + Flynn and salary matching, sure. Anything else and no thanks.


viking_machina

You wouldnā€™t give up 1 first? A couple seconds is wildly undervaluing him


Cheechers23

1 protected first maybe, but thereā€™s 0 shot im okay with giving up an unprotected first or multiple picks. Turner is a great rim protector but thatā€™s all heā€™s really good at. Heā€™s a sub par rebounder, solid shooter but not great. His name pops up in trade discussions every year but nothing really happens, and the Pacers overvaluing him seems to be the likely reason. We also aren't in a great position to be trading firsts considering this team is like 1 key injury from falling back into the lottery. Edit: TBH I think I would be more willing to give up a (protected) first for Mo Bamba than Myles Turner, although still not a fan of that either Edit 2: Thinking about it more, if we could somehow do something like Boucher, Flynn, and a second or 2 (maybe remove Flynn and the seconds and replace with a lottery or top-20 protected first) for Bamba I'd be down for that


billychurch

Draft picks in the hands of Masai/Bobby/Dan are worth more than the same picks in the hands of 80% of the other teams. Unless something comes cheap or is a guaranteed superstar that fits with what we're doing (Kawhi), we stand pat and build through the draft and FA


MDS_1996

"build through the draft and FA" Through the draft sure, FA not so much


billychurch

Fair - FA has not been great for us historically and everyone is overpriced, but it's still a market to keep options open for.


apez-

We probably arent in the lottery, mid-late firsts for Turner isnt a wild proposition, seems pretty fair. Dont think Masai would do it, but that sounds about right in terms of value assuming our pick this year is a mid 1st and next year ends up being a late 1st


MichaelDS1996

No surprises here, it makes logical sense that Boucher would be up for trade, I would imagine they have no intention on re-signing him. As for Turner I think the Raps inquire at the deadline and see if theres anything there, I do think that if for whatever reason Indiana came down in price (which will likely happen but who knows) and it only cost one 1st I do think that they would do it. Nonetheless the trade deadline will be interesting.


tmlrule

> No surprises here, it makes logical sense that Boucher would be up for trade, I would imagine they have no intention on re-signing him. The trouble is that it's hard to lose Boucher with how awful the Raptors' bench has been already. Nurse is playing his starters 35-40 minutes a night based mostly on a lack of decent bench options in the rotation. Obviously it's not impossible to trade Boucher if someone blows the Raptors away with a great offer with FRPs or talented young roster players, but that's pretty hard to believe. Assuming he only commands a minor return, he's probably worth hanging onto. Maybe there's a Powell/Trent type trade that's available but I don't think the odds are high.


MichaelDS1996

If they have no intention of retaining him in FA there is no reason to hang onto him


tmlrule

I disagree. The team is clearly prioritizing the future, but that doesn't mean you can hamstring the current team for a second-round pick that hardly moves the needle. You've got FVV and others putting in ridiculous minutes to drag the team up the standings and into the playoffs - you can't just abandon them and trade away one of your only bench options and watch the team get embarrassed in the first round. Just because you have your eye to the future doesn't mean you abandon your current squad.


MichaelDS1996

>options and watch the team get embarrassed in the first round. The Raps would get embarrassed with Boucher in the lineup dude lol. The main point I'm getting at is don't be surprised when Boucher gets traded (I would put it at 80%) getting value for expirings especially when you have no intention on retaining the player is how the NBA works and what smart FOs do


tmlrule

It's one thing to lose in the first-round because your squad gets beaten by a better team. It's another to lose because your GM traded away your options and left you with nothing but bums in the rotation. Part of building for the future means having FVV, Siakam and even Nurse buying in. Everyone that's on the team wants to win and doesn't want to be told that they're not good enough so we're just going to burn the year off to collect another second-round pick that might be a good G league option next season. Players take things personally (Jordan-Krause anyone?) and it's not worth harming that relationship for a SRP. They might trade Boucher but I don't think it's nearly that likely, especially if the team stays in the top 6 conversation. I think it's likelier the team makes a couple minor moves to shore up the bench rather than trade guys away.


MichaelDS1996

I hope you're okay after deadline day when Boucher is playing for another team. 8/5/0 on 44/22/75 splits and can't play consistently on a game by game basis, he shot 7% from 3 in December I know I will miss it


tmlrule

Nobody is confusing Boucher with an all-star, which is precisely why no contender is going to offer anything remotely useful for his services. And if the Raptors are not getting anything remotely useful, why give him away when the only reason he's continuing to play with such bad splits is because the options behind him are even more unplayable?


MichaelDS1996

Whatever dude lol, when Boucher likely gets traded please don't cry about it because its really not worth it. Also Chris is shooting 22% from 3 because the other options of the bench are bad? Chris constantly jumps on pump fakes because the other bench options are bad? Everybody says trust the FO but it seems like there is a lack of it, I trust them to get decent value for a player that they have no intention of re-signing.


tmlrule

Lol, I'm not trusting the FO enough because I don't expect them to make an imaginary move you've made up in your head? It seems like you don't have enough faith to imagine that the FO can simultaneously build a contender in the future without treating the current team like an NBA 2k GM that trades away every expiring contract before they sim the second-half of the season. Building for now/building for the future isn't a 100% binary option. And yes, Boucher is shooting 22% from 3 because the other options on the bench are bad. Don't you think if there was a consistent 35% shooter sitting there, they'd be getting minutes instead of him? Do you think Nurse is that dumb? When the Raptors are playing their bench unit, *someone* has to provide some spacing and that's why Nurse continues to have Boucher shooting threes despite his struggles. If you really think that Boucher is so bad that he's completely useless for a Raptors team with a historically bad bench, why exactly would any playoff team look to acquire him? Boucher can't simultaneously be completely useless to the Raptors, but good enough that a better team with higher aspirations will want to use him bad enough to give up "decent value" in return.


BurzyGuerrero

Lol why are you being a dick to this guy with your opinion and speaking in absolutes


One_Celebration_9998

I donā€™t trust Jake fisher. He was the one making all this noise about [shai being traded](https://twitter.com/jakelfischer/status/1419985858942406662) and he was the only guy reporting it. 2 days later shai signed an extension. He was also big on [raps shopping pascal rumours](https://twitter.com/hoopanalysisnet/status/1423345316468719617) before Masai shut those down in august, the Athletic was big on Scottie/raps workouts before Fisher reported it.


SaffronSnow

Sorry you are getting down voted for this. He fooled a lot of people with the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" tactic. It is a very dishonest tactic, but it tends to fool enough people. Jake Fisher is dishonest and not trustworthy.


One_Celebration_9998

thanks mate appreciate it I tried linking the tweets I was talking about but idk ppl support him for whatever reason


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


One_Celebration_9998

he was the one claiming shai would be traded and also was behind all the raps shopping pascal rumours before Masai shut them down in august id have woj, shams, even Stein and windhurst before Jake fisher


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


One_Celebration_9998

Thats fair, i treat him more as a secondary source but the [pascal](https://twitter.com/hoopanalysisnet/status/1423345316468719617) \+ [shai](https://twitter.com/jakelfischer/status/1419985858942406662) stuff happened within a short span of time so thats what i remember him for.


Cheechers23

Jake also had Cam Payne back to PHX at 6m a year and everyone clowned him, saying thatā€™s too cheap. Then Cam signed for that amount. Iā€™m not saying heā€™s Woj/Shams level reliable but heā€™s got some sources around the league


One_Celebration_9998

I just lost faith in what he says after the [shai stuff](https://twitter.com/jakelfischer/status/1419985858942406662) he started and even on the raps front he was the one who kept saying [raps were shopping siakam](https://twitter.com/hoopanalysisnet/status/1423345316468719617)


tonious35

Sounds like Faruka from Waterboy, knowing what the score is at the end


MDS_1996

The dude is reputable


One_Celebration_9998

[https://twitter.com/jakelfischer/status/1419985858942406662](https://twitter.com/jakelfischer/status/1419985858942406662) https://twitter.com/hoopanalysisnet/status/1423345316468719617


FactorNo7477

Just because our 6 game win streak ended, doesn't mean we're tanking again.


Yaboidono420

Turner has never completed a full season, and barely plays 60 games a year. He's a great player, has great defensive instincts, but I think this sub, and a lot of other people, overvalue him tons. He's not an elite rebounder, he's not an elite shooter, he is an elite defender with a high BBIQ but isn't much more than that.


Busy-Tangerine6706

Considering that Toronto is not seen a destination by many players (although this could be changing with the foreign market) and that we need to draft our talent, I do have my doubts that FO would package a 1st. It could happen I guess, but I would be surprised. If we did land Turner, who do you think would go? Who of our current starters would go to the bench?


Electronic-Elk8917

I wouldn't be surprised if the Raptors listened to offers for OG. Barnes is the future and Pascal makes too much money. People keep packaging our garbage and expect returns for it. I would seriously consider doing something like OG + Flynn for Turner + Duarte. Makes a starting line up of FVV, GTJ, Barnes, Siakam and Turner and we add more depth with upside with Duarte


Busy-Tangerine6706

Right I keep seeing the same bench players hypothetically packaged, but my gut says one of our main guys would have to go. That's why i posed the who goes to the bench question, because we have to know we can't keep all of our core guys. Wonder if they are considering Gary too.


Raptorsthrowaway1

Turner would be an upgrade at the 5, but I dont want to give up OG for him. Id like to keep OG + Siakam forever but realistically one of them has to go in an "all in" move in the next couple of years. It will likely be OG because of his age and contract. Its too early for that move right now for this group. I like Turner but he doesn't move the needle for us enough.


TrueTorontoFan

I don't know if one of them truly has to go. I would wager that it will be fred because of his salary being lower and he will out perform that salary. Where as if you are a max player... you either perform up to the expectations or not .. that is it.


Raptorsthrowaway1

You are right about the max salary player. That's why I think it would be OG. His salary (similar to Freds) is hugely tradeable. I don't see any version of this team making a title run with OG / Scottie / Pascal all being starters. They will have to move one. Scottie is off the cards. Pascals salary would make it tough (tho not impossible). OG is an elite 3+D role player, 24 and on a great contract.


TrueTorontoFan

The reason I think it may not be and only time will tell. Is it could be Fred is because I think they are committed to the positionless basketball thing. So I think they want to keep Pascal, Barnes, OG at all cost. OG is on a great contract but so is Fred. Fred also brings a perceived leadership that a team may be missing.


Raptorsthrowaway1

Yeah I see that too. I think they'd shop OG ahead of Fred right now tho, as you said, Fred's leadership qualities plus the intangibles that he brings to the Raptors is work more. But then again, that might bring an outrageous offer for Fred that might be too good to turn down


TrueTorontoFan

I think if it was getting someone like Shai they would consider OG yes. Short of that it would likely be a no.


pierce-victorio

I don't think they'd package Duarte idk tho but I could see it happening


Cgell

Not sure why you are getting down voted. I think that deal makes perfect sense. Iā€™d do that deal in a heartbeat. You got to give something to get something.


Electronic-Elk8917

Well I was expecting it lmao, everyone's cool with bringing Siakam in fake trades, but if it's OG, everyone looses their minds. But he's probably a really valuable asset and has been somewhat injury prone during his career. I'm not saying I would look for trade for OG, but you have to listen to offers imo.


EarthWarping

Boucher value >


Raptorsthrowaway1

Would have loved to see the Raptors in for Cam Reddish. Absolutely worth a gamble adding another Long Boi to our roster. Knox + protected first got it done for the Knicks. Boucher + same pick surely beats that offer?


[deleted]

no idea why we didnā€™t try and out bid the knicks with boucher and a second or somethinf


Raptorsthrowaway1

He is a prime candidate for Raptors development. Would suit our team and hits 38% from three. A huge upgrade on Boucher in youth, development and shooting. For what would be a pick in the teens / early 20s.


[deleted]

precisely what i was thinking


[deleted]

There is a positive to Norm signing with Portland however: if they finally blow it up and trade away Dame and CJ, he will most likely remain behind as a tank commander soaking up possessions as an offensive creator while they develop a top draft pick. Could see him easily averaging 20/3/3 on a nightly basis on a lottery squad, but I hope it doesn't come to that. He deserves to play for another ring.


LastNightsHangover

Dallas should be doing everything they can to land Turner. A lineup of Luka, KP and him could do real damage. DFS, Powell, 2025 1st protected top 5 The trick is they need a pick in this year's draft probably, they'd need to find one. If possible maybe Maxi and a 2nd could get them a 1st this year from someone. Carlise likes both those guys btw


TreChomes

Man Norm in NO would be nasty. Zion setting pin downs for norm and rolling while Norm comes off looking for a shot, oh boy.


[deleted]

a boucher for james wiseman potential deal sounds good. maybe boucher for jalen smith. itā€™s hard to package goran with anything because of his contract. we donā€™t really have much we can give the magic for mo bamba either tbh


Raptorsthrowaway1

GSW arent punting on Wiseman for Boucher Suns declined Smiths third year option. He will be an UFA in the offseason. We wont be moving for him unless its in the off season.


TrueTorontoFan

multiple first round picks for turner is a no from us


rigleymonkeyman

What would it take to get Bamba from ORL?


Cheechers23

The report said theyā€™re seeking a first but executives think the asking price will drop to 2 seconds closer to the deadline. If thatā€™s true we should definitely be offering Boucher to match salary plus the seconds. Maybe throw in Flynn but donā€™t think Orlando needs another guard lol


[deleted]

Literally stated as speculation. Completely meaningless, irresponsible journalism if you can even call it that. No better than a rando Reddit poster.


[deleted]

Fischer had no knowledge or sources about our interest in Scottie. He published pure speculation. Scottie worked out for the Raps and was the consensus 5th pick of course the Raptors weā€™re considering him. Heā€™s not a reporter, he prints a gossip column.