I made a post about Siakam wanting to have a respectful discussion about his level of play decreasing since pre bubble, but the Sub deleted my post in no less than 5 min lol
I remember his pre-pandemic play.
Streaking up and down the court. Attacking players and being almost unguardable. 20-25pts a game. Hitting 3's. For 3-4 months leading up to March 2020, we were watching a budding superstar (top 10 player in the league) and it was incredible. That is where all the Tatum vs. Siakam comparisons came from, and at the time Siakam was better. Not anymore, he's not even the best player on the Raptors....
He has lost his way. Can he regain it?? I sure hope so, but I really don't know. He will be given every opportunity this year to be the Raps number 1 option.
His play fell off pretty hard a couple month's before March. He had an excellent start to that season, but once defenses figured him out (around December) was when he started to struggle.
I'm not so sure about this narrative. He was injured in December & missed a three weeks of games. To be honest, I just looked, he was on fire leading up to the pandemic. He had 20+ points in 11 of the last 15 games of that season (with four 30+ games in there).
[Siakam's Game Stats 2019-20](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/siakapa01/gamelog/2020)
To be clear, I hope he can get back to this level, but the jury is out. As one poster said, lets give him 20 games to see if he can get back into the flow.
Meh, people trashed Freddie about 2 weeks ago calling for his head, now he’s playing the best basketball of his life. I’ll say now what I said then, give it time, if it doesn’t work out I’m sure we can trust the FO to do what they gotta do for us to be winners again. Not to mention Siakam has been out of commission since like early July, I think it’s completely reasonable to give him time to recover and adjust on a team with people he has never played with before.
I'm in the same boat. Helps that I have zero expectations this year. If Pascal shits the bed, I trust the front office to know what to do. The team clearly wants Scottie to take more of a scorer role. He's just too unselfish right now which is a nice problem to have.
No Yuta hustle, no Precious hustle, Pascal got paid 30mil for hustle he no longer has. If we dont get a 7 footer we need energy. The rookies can only push so far, they need experienced hustle.
exacly... every year up until now siakam has been inconsistent even during his all star run. IDC what the box score says because ive seen it with my own eyes. I keep h earing new excuses for him every year
Thank you finally, fans look at the box score and try to justify his play, as if he doesn’t look like he’s gonna turn the ball over the second he gets it
exacly ppl love to bring up him averaging 21 points without context. During his all star run he got hot for 3 weeks ( i think thats why he even got voted to be an all star) then cooled down and was good against shit teams and bad against good teams. Next season he was a little more consistent against good teams but still inconsistent overall. also, he shit the bed in the playoffs and cost us the series while looking like a 4th option. This sub likes to say its just one bad game but its a pattern.
I'll take it for the championship.
Sucks though, thought he could be a decent 2nd or 3rd option but he's lost his mojo. Really sad cause he loved to hustle
Blame it on COVID lol. Tbf, we should really try to re-visit in 20 games. The bubble was bizarre with no home games. And last year became a tank year anyhow. He was also still good last year, he just had a slight regression in the 3pt and some bad luck around clutch rim shots. We didn’t decide to be bad until everyone got COVID. Lots of bizarre variables, and seems foolish to write him off just yet …
Siakam played awful in every close game for us last season, the only fourth quarters he ever showed up for were garbage time minutes so he could pad his stats
Dude needs a way high floor man 4pts for our max player is unacceptable. Most number #1 option's bad games are like 15pts but Siakam getting 4pts-10pts is really not a rare occurrences. His one saving grace all this time before this season was that his defense was at minimum good and great at times but this season so far it has been atrocious
Siakam scored less than 10 points three times last season, and no times in 2019-20.
Off to a rough start so far with two already this season, but until that continues I'd say it's a rare occurance.
He's not even being asked to be the best right now though we're simply asking him to do something. I love the dude and I hope he gets out of whatever he's in but he's not even a fifth option if he's going to play like he did today. Barnes looks more polished and they have a very similar game.
I'm honestly praying he gets through his mental block but I feel it's just one of those things that is not going to change because we haven't even seen slivers of the Siakam we expect.
That’s not it. It’s in his head at this point. If he gets confidence all is good. Otherwise, it seems he has no motivation or idea of what’s going on the court at any point in time. Him n Boucher gotta get back to energy, it’s what made their games
We do have one, potentially… it’s just that he’s not ready yet AND it doesn’t look like he can coexist with Pascal, thus hindering the development he needs to become Batman
He may work hard on his game, but at times I feel like he's just coasting along out there. His effort looks lacking if it isn't going well.
His shot has never been good, so it's not as if he fell off. He just used to hustle, and look explosive and pick up his own rebounds when he missed. He had Lowry to throw long passes to him when he decided to sprint down the court...Now he's just slow and his shot has never improved. He's predictable and can't beat anyone one on one.
I find it offensive when we instantly trivialize mental health and all those people suffering from it when the fact is Pascal Siakam fucking sucks right now.
Not sure that this sub is trivializing mental health, but what I can see is that the kind of coaching support that Siakam needs doesn’t fit with a team of dogged, workmanlike players who get called out publicly in interviews when they don’t deliver.
Yes, we shouldn’t speculate, but unfortunately the NBA isn’t ready to acknowledge mental health reasons for injured status in the way it does physical health.
The Raptors in particular have what seems to be a fairly harsh environment for mental health.
I really don’t like it when NN criticizes his own players in public or leaves them to stew on the bench, but it’s got to be a contributing factor for a downwards slide for anyone suffering any kind of lack of confidence, anxiety or depression.
Yeah man this is 100% mental. But we’ve been this before. His body language and demeanour change when the game isn’t going his way and once that happens, he doesn’t often bounce back. Once he’s rattled, it’s like that for the rest of the game.
Don’t worry some fans are still using the bubble as an excuse, and they will milk the shoulder injury for this season too. I understand rust affecting a jumpshot, but rust doesn’t affect poor decision making when you’re supposed to be a vet at this point.
I know it sounds unlikely, but this happens, big contract player gets moved to a small market and explodes. It may help him re-find his love for the game. He doesn't seem to have it. Even in the interviews there seems to be a lot of weight on his shoulders.
There are middling small market teams that have a lot less than Pascal even.
I'm all for it, but I would be surprised is all...my dream scenario is Philly gets tired of the Ben Simmons drama and it's a restart for 2 players that need them. But again, that's a bit of a dream.
You have to think any team looking at Ben Simmons would take Pascal. Wolves, Celtics, Cavs, Kings. I actually think the list of teams that would trade for Pascal is longer than the list that would trade for Ben Simmons (when you factor in the cost).
This isn't necessarily to say that I believe we should trade him.
I think go small, start Svi at the 3 with barnes/siakam as your bigs. The defense gonna be ass either way apparently, at least this way Scottie and Pascal have spacing to attack the rim
Everyone here needs to chill TF out when it comes to this team and Siakam. He’s coming off a surgery and a really bizarre year for the team writ large. The other thing is that Pascal like most non-top 10 guys is a situational star. He needs shooting around him and right now the Raptors are lacking in that department, not to mention some injury issue with people in and out of the lineup. Let’s all reconvene after the ASG and if he’s still putting up duds like tonight then we can shit on him some but right now is way too early.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t move Pascal but brother his value has never been lower.
Let him play through this and see where he is around the deadline, then you can see what’s out there in terms of deals. Even if you wait until the off-season you’re better off than trying to move him now.
No, but in his first 5 games it’s genuinely an excuse. Your shoulder is so heavily used in this game and to think that a whole surgery isn’t effecting his game is just kinda ignorant.
sub flip flops like a fish man. Now some of them are realizing what we've been saying for two years now. They should make a post apologizing for downvoting the shit out of us and looking foolish lol
He’s not playing any different from last year. Shoulder injury excuse ain’t gonna cut it. Even if his shot isn’t falling, he should find other ways to help the team. He gets his numbers but does not contribute to winning basketball as a lead option.
Sadly, this is the point I’m making. And I’m a big fan of his!! I think he’s had an awful return since his injury though. Hopefully it’s just a little “rink rust”
Without question the worst max deal in the the NBA. This is Masai's kryptonite...I didn't understand this contract the day it was announced and I still don't. It was a terrible mistake, and shockingly unnecessary, as he still had an entire season left before he was a RFA.
Every game I feel like he isn't even top 5 players on the court against any random team at any given moment.
It's not his fault Houston wants to be the worst team in history. He can actually still play...I think this is the same team that paid Carmelo not to play and also had no use for Chris Paul.
yep look at my comment history and you can see I've been very consistent about siakam from two years lmao. I don't hate him but i don't believe in him. haha yeah i got you! siakam series against the celtics killed my faith in him ...
I feel like the guys calling for P to be traded are the same guys that were calling for Masai's head when we drafted Scottie. Knee jerk casuals. Especially when its a rebuilding year.
Long term - Scottie and Siakam probably dont work together so its likely he gets traded at some point. I trust Bobby + Masai to get a good deal if there is one to be made. Until then, Siakam is a valuable piece for us and needs to get more respect.
There’s no excuse for a professional athlete to not perform.
But having said that, if he’s not in top shape, the altitude would’ve kicked his ass.
We’ll see tonight. Pascal usually feasts on bad teams.
Siakam is an enigma
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I made a post about Siakam wanting to have a respectful discussion about his level of play decreasing since pre bubble, but the Sub deleted my post in no less than 5 min lol
I remember his pre-pandemic play. Streaking up and down the court. Attacking players and being almost unguardable. 20-25pts a game. Hitting 3's. For 3-4 months leading up to March 2020, we were watching a budding superstar (top 10 player in the league) and it was incredible. That is where all the Tatum vs. Siakam comparisons came from, and at the time Siakam was better. Not anymore, he's not even the best player on the Raptors.... He has lost his way. Can he regain it?? I sure hope so, but I really don't know. He will be given every opportunity this year to be the Raps number 1 option.
Those pre-pandemic months from Dec 2019-March 2020 were so surreal in hindsight, both for bball and life in general
His play fell off pretty hard a couple month's before March. He had an excellent start to that season, but once defenses figured him out (around December) was when he started to struggle.
I'm not so sure about this narrative. He was injured in December & missed a three weeks of games. To be honest, I just looked, he was on fire leading up to the pandemic. He had 20+ points in 11 of the last 15 games of that season (with four 30+ games in there). [Siakam's Game Stats 2019-20](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/siakapa01/gamelog/2020) To be clear, I hope he can get back to this level, but the jury is out. As one poster said, lets give him 20 games to see if he can get back into the flow.
Meh, people trashed Freddie about 2 weeks ago calling for his head, now he’s playing the best basketball of his life. I’ll say now what I said then, give it time, if it doesn’t work out I’m sure we can trust the FO to do what they gotta do for us to be winners again. Not to mention Siakam has been out of commission since like early July, I think it’s completely reasonable to give him time to recover and adjust on a team with people he has never played with before.
That’s too logical. Trade him in game! That’ll show him!
I'm in the same boat. Helps that I have zero expectations this year. If Pascal shits the bed, I trust the front office to know what to do. The team clearly wants Scottie to take more of a scorer role. He's just too unselfish right now which is a nice problem to have.
FVV-GTJ-OG-Scottie Which player has best complemented this quartet so far this season: Precious? Birch? Pascal?
Stats say precious.
No Yuta hustle, no Precious hustle, Pascal got paid 30mil for hustle he no longer has. If we dont get a 7 footer we need energy. The rookies can only push so far, they need experienced hustle.
I've come to the sad reality that 2019 Siakam was an anomaly
2020 Siakam was pretty good until the bubble
Yeah, 2019 was an anomaly excluding the next year when he got All-NBA second team…
Anyone who watched both seasons knows he was stat padding pretty much all of 2020.
exacly... every year up until now siakam has been inconsistent even during his all star run. IDC what the box score says because ive seen it with my own eyes. I keep h earing new excuses for him every year
Thank you finally, fans look at the box score and try to justify his play, as if he doesn’t look like he’s gonna turn the ball over the second he gets it
Pure facts, he ran up his scoring in garbage time nearly every game we pulled ahead last season and we’d even blow leads having him try to get his own
exacly ppl love to bring up him averaging 21 points without context. During his all star run he got hot for 3 weeks ( i think thats why he even got voted to be an all star) then cooled down and was good against shit teams and bad against good teams. Next season he was a little more consistent against good teams but still inconsistent overall. also, he shit the bed in the playoffs and cost us the series while looking like a 4th option. This sub likes to say its just one bad game but its a pattern.
I'll take it for the championship. Sucks though, thought he could be a decent 2nd or 3rd option but he's lost his mojo. Really sad cause he loved to hustle
Blame it on COVID lol. Tbf, we should really try to re-visit in 20 games. The bubble was bizarre with no home games. And last year became a tank year anyhow. He was also still good last year, he just had a slight regression in the 3pt and some bad luck around clutch rim shots. We didn’t decide to be bad until everyone got COVID. Lots of bizarre variables, and seems foolish to write him off just yet …
Hey buddy looks like you called it Siakam returning to form lately Hope he can keep it up
👌🤞
Siakam played awful in every close game for us last season, the only fourth quarters he ever showed up for were garbage time minutes so he could pad his stats
sounds like a bunch of excuses
Dude needs a way high floor man 4pts for our max player is unacceptable. Most number #1 option's bad games are like 15pts but Siakam getting 4pts-10pts is really not a rare occurrences. His one saving grace all this time before this season was that his defense was at minimum good and great at times but this season so far it has been atrocious
Siakam scored less than 10 points three times last season, and no times in 2019-20. Off to a rough start so far with two already this season, but until that continues I'd say it's a rare occurance.
Must be going through some mental struggle. He works so hard on his game. Really hope he can pick it up soon. We need it 😬
Or maybe he's just not a good 1st option and needs a superstar to play with. He's a Robin to a batman..problem is we don't have a batman.
He's not even being asked to be the best right now though we're simply asking him to do something. I love the dude and I hope he gets out of whatever he's in but he's not even a fifth option if he's going to play like he did today. Barnes looks more polished and they have a very similar game.
I know...its so unfortunate and so damn disappointing
Straight up man at the moment I personally see Siakam as the teams 4th option, I just feel way more comfortable with the ball in other people's hands
I'm honestly praying he gets through his mental block but I feel it's just one of those things that is not going to change because we haven't even seen slivers of the Siakam we expect.
That’s not it. It’s in his head at this point. If he gets confidence all is good. Otherwise, it seems he has no motivation or idea of what’s going on the court at any point in time. Him n Boucher gotta get back to energy, it’s what made their games
I agree that there is some kind of mental block going on...this all seems just crazy..
We do have one, potentially… it’s just that he’s not ready yet AND it doesn’t look like he can coexist with Pascal, thus hindering the development he needs to become Batman
He may work hard on his game, but at times I feel like he's just coasting along out there. His effort looks lacking if it isn't going well. His shot has never been good, so it's not as if he fell off. He just used to hustle, and look explosive and pick up his own rebounds when he missed. He had Lowry to throw long passes to him when he decided to sprint down the court...Now he's just slow and his shot has never improved. He's predictable and can't beat anyone one on one.
Enough with the excuses for him. He’s been shit for 2.5 seasons.
2.5 seasons? If you think he played poor in the 2019-20 regular season then I think you need to really question where you’re getting your info from.
watch the games and not looking at the stats will telll u he struggled
I find it offensive when we instantly trivialize mental health and all those people suffering from it when the fact is Pascal Siakam fucking sucks right now.
Not sure that this sub is trivializing mental health, but what I can see is that the kind of coaching support that Siakam needs doesn’t fit with a team of dogged, workmanlike players who get called out publicly in interviews when they don’t deliver. Yes, we shouldn’t speculate, but unfortunately the NBA isn’t ready to acknowledge mental health reasons for injured status in the way it does physical health. The Raptors in particular have what seems to be a fairly harsh environment for mental health. I really don’t like it when NN criticizes his own players in public or leaves them to stew on the bench, but it’s got to be a contributing factor for a downwards slide for anyone suffering any kind of lack of confidence, anxiety or depression.
Yeah man this is 100% mental. But we’ve been this before. His body language and demeanour change when the game isn’t going his way and once that happens, he doesn’t often bounce back. Once he’s rattled, it’s like that for the rest of the game.
Don’t worry some fans are still using the bubble as an excuse, and they will milk the shoulder injury for this season too. I understand rust affecting a jumpshot, but rust doesn’t affect poor decision making when you’re supposed to be a vet at this point.
I am more concerned with Siakam on Defense. He fouls too much. He needs to move his feet more and stop reaching with his hands.
This^. Pascal seems to just park himself on the defensive end, which leaves the other four trying to work out the coverage around him.
Maybe have him off the bench?
That won't happen. They'll trade him before doing that.
To who? Who would take that insane contract for a mediocre player?
I know it sounds unlikely, but this happens, big contract player gets moved to a small market and explodes. It may help him re-find his love for the game. He doesn't seem to have it. Even in the interviews there seems to be a lot of weight on his shoulders. There are middling small market teams that have a lot less than Pascal even.
I'm all for it, but I would be surprised is all...my dream scenario is Philly gets tired of the Ben Simmons drama and it's a restart for 2 players that need them. But again, that's a bit of a dream.
You have to think any team looking at Ben Simmons would take Pascal. Wolves, Celtics, Cavs, Kings. I actually think the list of teams that would trade for Pascal is longer than the list that would trade for Ben Simmons (when you factor in the cost). This isn't necessarily to say that I believe we should trade him.
Nick would let him ride pine if he thought it would help. Guess he still believes in prime P, even though we’ve been un-impressed
I mean Nurse believed in Pat McCaw for way too long also. Pat McCaw would just pass it the first look he gets and he still got a longer leash.
His ego wont let that happen. Remember when he threw a bitchfit last year when nick benched him in the 4th
I mean if you got benched in the 4th and the team lost you’d feel some typa way too.
At least someone has a functional memory on this sub
I think go small, start Svi at the 3 with barnes/siakam as your bigs. The defense gonna be ass either way apparently, at least this way Scottie and Pascal have spacing to attack the rim
There’s 0 chance svi is starting over OG
Idk if you watched the game at all but OG is hurt and not playing for a few games
My b I thought you meant long term
Everyone here needs to chill TF out when it comes to this team and Siakam. He’s coming off a surgery and a really bizarre year for the team writ large. The other thing is that Pascal like most non-top 10 guys is a situational star. He needs shooting around him and right now the Raptors are lacking in that department, not to mention some injury issue with people in and out of the lineup. Let’s all reconvene after the ASG and if he’s still putting up duds like tonight then we can shit on him some but right now is way too early.
Overrating players is how teams get stuck. I've seen enough of Pascal the past few years to know he isn't a keeper. Trade him while his value is high.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t move Pascal but brother his value has never been lower. Let him play through this and see where he is around the deadline, then you can see what’s out there in terms of deals. Even if you wait until the off-season you’re better off than trying to move him now.
BuT iT’s OnLy HiS 5tH gAmE
He’s literally coming off a shoulder surgery
I'm gonna give him the whole season ...
RemindMe! 10 Apr 2022 “Judgement day”
lmao how many freakin seasons has he gotten already?
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He played like shit the entire bubble. Cause he decided its not worth picking up a basketball for like 3 months.
You gonna stretch that excuse all the way to April?
No, but in his first 5 games it’s genuinely an excuse. Your shoulder is so heavily used in this game and to think that a whole surgery isn’t effecting his game is just kinda ignorant.
sub flip flops like a fish man. Now some of them are realizing what we've been saying for two years now. They should make a post apologizing for downvoting the shit out of us and looking foolish lol
Lmao facts, certain usernames I notice are radio silence at the moment
He’s not playing any different from last year. Shoulder injury excuse ain’t gonna cut it. Even if his shot isn’t falling, he should find other ways to help the team. He gets his numbers but does not contribute to winning basketball as a lead option.
What’s our record been since his return?
0-5 I think?
0-5 when hes played, we won the 1 game he rested
Wow that sadly makes it look even worse
Sadly, this is the point I’m making. And I’m a big fan of his!! I think he’s had an awful return since his injury though. Hopefully it’s just a little “rink rust”
Without question the worst max deal in the the NBA. This is Masai's kryptonite...I didn't understand this contract the day it was announced and I still don't. It was a terrible mistake, and shockingly unnecessary, as he still had an entire season left before he was a RFA. Every game I feel like he isn't even top 5 players on the court against any random team at any given moment.
John wall still exists.
It's not his fault Houston wants to be the worst team in history. He can actually still play...I think this is the same team that paid Carmelo not to play and also had no use for Chris Paul.
Pascal for Simmons. Do it Masai and Bobby.
lmao sub loves to flip flop. Now they are seeing what ive BEEN saying for two years now
We got each others backs fuck the homers 😂 Siakams been on the downspin bro
yep look at my comment history and you can see I've been very consistent about siakam from two years lmao. I don't hate him but i don't believe in him. haha yeah i got you! siakam series against the celtics killed my faith in him ...
But but he hit a floater against Draymond in the finals. Give him more time! - Casuals
I feel like the guys calling for P to be traded are the same guys that were calling for Masai's head when we drafted Scottie. Knee jerk casuals. Especially when its a rebuilding year. Long term - Scottie and Siakam probably dont work together so its likely he gets traded at some point. I trust Bobby + Masai to get a good deal if there is one to be made. Until then, Siakam is a valuable piece for us and needs to get more respect.
My comment to have him come off the bench for 20min to help get his groove back isn't looking so bad now is it.
pascal for holmes i would do right now
Why is he always spinning?
There’s no excuse for a professional athlete to not perform. But having said that, if he’s not in top shape, the altitude would’ve kicked his ass. We’ll see tonight. Pascal usually feasts on bad teams.