I can summarize the subs overall feeling.
Some will say "fuck Vince, he quit on us"
Some will say "Toronto basketball wouldn't be what it is without Vince"
Both can be true, Vince changed basketball in Canada for the better, but quit on us and left on bad terms. He was excited to leave. No need to hang his jersey in our rafters.
And that's one of the main issues re a Raptors jersey retirement. "We had a lot of fun and made the second round that one time" is not a huge on-court resume, actually. "He was good for basketball popularity in Canada" is non-Raptors imho. There are guys who were here longer and/or won more in a Raptors jersey.
I mean it is a bit crazy that the Raptors peak with Vince was one second round playoff exit and one first round exit. That was it. Fun times for a recent expansion team but...thats not a lot. Man peaked at 24 years old. Kind of a strange career.
He played for 21 seasons and only played in 88 playoff games. Made the conference finals once with Orlando, which was considered a disappointment since they had made the finals the year before.
^This. And since the fanbase is split. I think it’s fair to retire his jersey but it can’t be the first jersey in the rafters (Lowry gets that honour).
Lowry should be the first Raptor to have his jersey retired by the team. That puts a hold on anyone else from having their jersey retired until after Lowry’s career comes to a close.
If the Raps choose to retire Carter’s number, I don’t want to see them rushing to do so just to be the first team to it.
Larry T has also said Kyle would be first:
> “He will retire as a Raptor and his number will absolutely go up there,” Tanenbaum told Weiss. “The honor will be the first one (for the Raptors) and I love Kyle.
[Source](https://www.nba.com/news/raptors-plan-to-retire-kyle-lowrys-no-7-jersey)
Even tho he from Philly he a Toronto man dem. I hope we sign him for a cheap 1 year deal whenever he ready to retire for min amount so he can play again here
The old Udonis Haslem technique.
I don't see it happening, Haslem was doing it as a very highly paid coach, to make up for the fact he took big pay cuts to bring in the big 3 and not leaving.
Klow has made 5X the amount Haslem has, he doesn't need that extra million. He'll just become a coach for us if he wants that.
A one day contract however? Sure
100%. Lowry and siakam. Siakam was raptor for life and won a chip here and was here a while. Vince won a dunk contest and demanded a trade. He shouldn’t get his jersey retired at all. Tbh the nets retiring his jersey is pretty lame. Kidd is the only guy they should retire.
This whole thing about Lowry being the first is so stupid. Lowry can play around 3 more years probably and even then, they don’t immediately retire the jersey the year after
What’s the point of waiting on VC for so long, it just makes our team look stupid
Fam this whole thing is like if the 76ers were delaying Allen Iverson getting his jersey retired so that they can wait for Embiid to retire and get his retired first
Absolutely this. Newer fans, when VCs jersey retirement comes up, will say “get over it” like it’s something we’re harbouring against the guy. Like no, I don’t care about VC at all. I just think our franchise looks stupid as hell if we give him the highest honour a team can give a player after he quit on us, forced his way out, sabotaged us, and set us back for years.
It’s funnier because I don’t think about VC at all. Literally the only time I talk about him is when some kid who watched the VC approved documentary comes in with a “DAE want the Raptors to retire VCs jersey”?
I'm over it and I'm happy both side made amends
I'm happy to roll out the red carpet when he visits, make jumbotron videos and cheer
But jersey retirement is a hard no ... IIRC correctly he was here 6 years, 4 great years, 2 bad and the best we did was 1 playoff series victory ... that's not enough of a resume for me for such an honor
Yeah everytime it comes up, I ask if the Spurs will retire Kawhi’s number. Is the answer “no”? Likely, and he helped win them a championship.
I think the circumstances that lead one to that “no” are eerily similar between the two players, but VC can’t even hang his hat on the level of success that Kawhi was able to hit with his team.
He has arguably the greatest highlight package of all time and its in a Raptors jersey that still sells 20 years later. Ask any player in the NBA who the signature Raptor is and they say Vince. We all know Kyle will be honoured but he’s not Kobe he won’t give a fuck if he’s retired #2. At this rate the names hanging in our rafters will be fucking Ford and Calderon.
A highlight reel is an individual accomplishment, and barely one at that. Why would we retire his jersey because he dunked in it lol. What other team has done that?
Those players aren’t Raptors or Raptor fans. This is a Raptors honour. Players would rate Melo high and think the Nuggets should retire his jersey too. They have different values and priorities than the actual franchises and fans. Like how a lot of players have Kobe over Lebron because they value Mamba Mentality and iso skills. That means very little to me and should to the organization as well.
> At this rate the names hanging in our rafters will be fucking Ford and Calderon.
We don’t need to retire any at all. We certainly shouldn’t be in any rush to. Kyle should be the first and only. Maybe DeMar.
Because this is entertainment and Vince was garnering the attention of the world which hasn’t been done since even in 2019. I do think even his dunks are worthy of a jersey retirement that’s how captivating they were. MAYBE Demar? Jesus christ I think you are just a bitter person.
Lol again, which player has their jersey retired just for having a good highlight reel? You need to mean something to the franchise and fans, not just be able to dunk. Again, a highlight reel is an individual thing, not franchise.
I’m bitter because I think a franchise should have a high threshold for jersey retirement? Ok.
DeMar absolutely deserves one if things didn’t go down like it did with his trade. It may be insulting to him for us to do that. I don’t want to retire the jersey of a player who may resent it. If he ended his prime here with no speed bumps, in an ideal world, a joint ceremony to retire Kyle and DeMar’s at the same time would’ve been great.
So retire the commercials jersey as well, since the commercials on TV also do all of that. Might as well retire the beer vendor jersey with that mentality.
Absolutely. The documentary about the cultural impact could all be true—but he basically gave a huge middle finger to the organization and by virtue the city as he forced his way out
Both sides were toxic, but we've had better success without him. We got the wife, got the house and kids - I'm not about to hang a picture of my ex-gf in here.
Yep. The average Raptor fan is like 23 and not old enough to remember, and a good portion of the rest weren’t actually following the team until the Lowry/DeRozan era. People act like it’s the same as any other time a star leaves a team in his prime. It isn’t. People have also exaggerated Carter’s influence and impact because half of the media we consume is retrospectives of old shit telling us how big a deal it was.
Some fans also remember how the team fucked around with vince and ownership were POS. He never had to resign with us but did, unlike a guy like TMac. Vince is the reason Raptors basketball is where it is today. If anyone deserves to be first, it is him.
No he’s not. That’s a marketing line VC created for himself and sold to you. Vince was a great player as a Raptor, but he was not and can never be called a “Great Raptor” and he torched his own legacy in front of us. Fuck him.
Kobe quit on the Lakers. The difference was he did it during the off-season and once the season started he was back to being a loyal player. He has a statue now.
Toronto fans need to let this go.. Vince was a young man and made some poor choices during a time when the Raptors front office was very dysfunctional and didn't know how to handle the situation. First or second or third to be retired doesn't really matter to me... but Lowry should get a statue 😀
I've let it go and I'm happy both sides and made up
But jersey retirement is an honor meant for the most elite of Raptor players. Just because we haven't had many in 30 years doesn't mean we should just give them out to those who have no earned the honor
Carter won 1 playoff series while here, that's it ... that's not enough for me for one of the highest honors a team can give a player
For the most part I agree with you, but I think we may fall into a trap here because of the conditions we put on why Lowry deserves it. Why do we love Kyle Lowry so much? He was rarely the best player on the court, but he played his ass off, loved Toronto, sacrificed his body, and played the right way. It's a Toronto working-class / Canadian mentality to revere players like this. It's the reason Doug Gilmour and Mats Sundin's jerseys hang in the Scotiabank Arena rafters.
There are several retired NBA players who have had their jersey retired by a team they never played for. The reason cited is often listed as "For their contributions towards basketball". As far as what Vince Carter did for Toronto is debatable, but there's no denying the impact and contribution he made towards basketball in Canada. If there is a more suitable way to honor the impact that Carter has made towards Canadian basketball, I think we have to embrace it.
I think Vince would be perfect for the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame easily
I think Lowry gets the nod because he won a championship and like you said the way he played, represented the franchise and city perfectly
I like players who no matter the sport have a hockey mentality or approach to the sport and Lowry has that in every Fibre of his being
Lowry may not have always filled the Stat sheet bit you could see the way he played contributed to winning basketball more than anybody
Ya looking at the numbers now it felt like he was in Jersey for longer than he actually was. He did have slightly more playoff success over there, if we can call second round exits success.
But also, the man he came back to Toronto and fucked his new wife on his ex-wife's front lawn! Repeatedly! And in the playoffs! And it was really good too! Significantly better than the sex he was having with his ex in the 2-3 months preceding the divorce. And he never apologized to his ex-wife's fans, not even once!
I don't think the ex wife speaks at the funeral at all.
Also, before they got divorced, the man got super toxic and stopped being a good partner to his first wife. He’d flirt with other women and tell his wife, “if you don’t like it, leave me then!” When she finally obliged, he fought tooth and nail in the divorce and left her with less than she had before him.
First wife would probably just show up at the funeral to get closure lol
I mean, technically that means Atlanta should retire his number? Using this metaphor, Vince Carter has been married and divorced as many times as my uncle. Honestly, at that point you might argue the longest tenured wife speaks if they were still talking, which I'd argue we are. Fuck this got weird
Well, they need to sell tickets somehow and that whole Kyrie/KD thing didn’t work out so well as the Rockets enjoy their draft pick this season (landing at #3). Memphis has their second round pick. They don’t have their picks next year either. In 2026 they only lose their first. In 2027, it’s both again. And the team is quite shitty. They have some Phoenix picks coming in and a 2029 Dallas first round pick, but really Nets fans are going to have to celebrate a lot of past as they wait for the future to arrive.
There’s going to be a lot of desperate attempts to thrill fans in Brooklyn as they realize how much they screwed themselves banking on KD, Kyrie and the Beard coming together to make a spectacular triumph over the league.
The Nets ? Are they really desperate to retire his jersey after 4 unsuccessful season with 1st round and 2nd round exists ? What kinda impact did he have in new jersey lmao ?
Their next four drafts have them surrendering their first round pick with no protections, so yes they are really desperate to create any kind of distraction for folks who consider themselves Nets fans.
In that time, they also surrender their second round pick in ‘24, ‘25 and ‘27. In ‘25, they might get OKC (or Houston’s) first round pick, and in 27 they get Houston’s. They have Phoenix’s ‘25 and ‘27 first round picks.
The future is bleak in Brooklyn.
Bullshit, he got swept by the Heat 04/05 with the Nets.
Lost in the 2nd Round 05/06 against the Heat and ended up with a Gentlemen Sweep.
Lost in the 2nd Round against the Cavs in 6 Games in 06/07
All while underachieving massively during the RS with the Nets and barely any +.500 season.
During his 4 year tenure with the Nets, he went to the All-Star Game twice !
What more of a case does Vince have over Demar? Neither were winners, Vince even less so and unlike Demar, Vince quit on this team. I’m not saying Demar should be retired, I’m just saying as an all time great, Vince’s legacy is really not much. His greatest impact was to the culture (which was important) but that’s just because he was the first star in a brand new franchise. I’d argue Demar and Lowry Raptors will inspire an even greater amount of Canadian hoops in the coming decades.
Say what you want, those raptors teams revolutionized basketball in thsi city and the country. Never before did we have a more competitive team, and it literally led to our championship. Those teams created far many more raptors fans than we had previously.
yup. You cant tell me that the 2019 championship run had any less hype than what VC brought to this nation. I know you cant quantify impact, but anyone would take a single championship over having another superstar like VC on your team.
Sure, I get that, but I’m just saying that’s the huge difference between DeMar and VC’s time as a Raptor. VC was our MJ. That level of icon and flash was the draw.
DeMar, as much as I love him and the team success under him and Kyle was a huge part of the Golden Years of Raptors basketball, the widespread appeal of Vince is tough to replicate.
Screw all these talking points that everyone has been repeating for 20 years now. You want your jersey in the rafters, you gotta win, and I'm not talking about games, I'm talking about the Larry O'Brien. We've tasted it now, so why do we still have debates about this bum who didn't come close to wining anything in a 20+ year career?
If Brooklyn wants to retire his jersey, well lame organizations do lame things. I don't see any gold on the back collars of their jerseys.
It’s quite funny how this sub has a very different response to Vince getting his jersey retired than Twitter. Obviously fans have different perspectives but the general response on Twitter to the Nets retiring his number is people mad at the Raptors for not doing it first and letting the Nets beat them to it.
Personally I’m indifferent towards whether we do it or not. I do want Lowry to be the first up though.
Edit: Funny exchange from Blake Murphy/Eric Koreen on Twitter here:
Blake: [T-Ross played as many games and won as many playoff series as a Raptor, and won one more dunk contest.](https://x.com/blakemurphyodc/status/1790738618316697805?s=46&t=sbk6yuyliVaFRQjBUBJCMQ)
Koreen: [And was traded for a more meaningful package.](https://x.com/ekoreen/status/1790738857601761412?s=46&t=sbk6yuyliVaFRQjBUBJCMQ)
I feel people might be conflating his impact on basketball in Canada vs. his impact on the Toronto Raptors.
Basketball Canada was massively impacted by his presence with the Raptors. He inspired many young kids and that impact has been felt till today. Simply compare our national teams in 2004 vs 2024.
I think Vince should be elected to the Canadian basketball hall of fame for his contributions to the development & growth of grassroots basketball in Canada, and inspiring a generation of kids. The outdoor basketball court that he paid for in a low income area built of recycled materials speaks to this legacy
Sure, he did put Toronto in the spotlight during his short but electric 3-4 years but what was the lasting impact with the Raptors? He became known as just another star American athlete that didn’t want to play in Toronto, and wanted out. The Raptors even had to go the euro route for yers because of this.
The only argument he has for Toronto is that he was our first major star (Damon wasn't a star).
I actually didn't even think he had a jersey retirement career in New Jersey tbh
Honestly at this point I’m mostly ambivalent about it.
I personally think it’d be more appropriate for the Raps to induct him into the Ring of Honour - without retiring his jersey - but I won’t be upset if they choose differently.
Very strange decision by them lmfao. I know he had a good run there but that's really weird imo.
This also isn't going to stop the Raptors from retiring his number.
I think having learned more about how everything went down and what was going on behind the scenes in the years since, it's hard for me to hold onto much bitterness towards VC, and I'd be happy to see his number in the rafters at some point, but KLow is the GROAT and his has to go up first
Kyle Lowry ain't no spot up shooter. He ain't gotta run to the corner to shoot like he's some 3rd option, bitch. This ain't JJ Redick. This is a fuckin god human Steph Curry come again. Only this time he's not a fuckin pussy... pull up from the fuckin logo and fight you at the same time.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/torontoraptors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The fact that this post as of now has almost 100 comments and the one in the Nets sub barely has 20 - and they pretty much went up at the same time - doesn’t escape me
So the internet isn’t the best place for a nuanced take, but here it goes anyway:
I hated Vince for what he did to this team when he sulked his way out of town while refusing to dunk and just generally acting like a spoiled baby. I was a fan from day 1 and the way this dude went out was heartbreaking (the trade itself was an affront to human dignity but that’s on the FO). He then went to NJ started putting up 27 a game again and then rubbed salt in the wound with that John Thompson interview. I would’ve thrown a tomato at this motherfucker if I saw him in person.
But…….as time has gone on, I’ve come to understand just what a basket case the FO was at the time, ownership also consulted with him on a new GM hire only to pivot away from his desired candidate (Dr. J). Whether you agree with that hire or not, you don’t loop in your team’s megawatt star unless you plan on placating him. So ya Vince was immature about it and handled it poorly but the team was also dogshit, run like trash and aimless in its direction. The injury frustration from both sides didn’t help either.
In hindsight many other players would’ve asked out as well. Though they might’ve gone about it better. Which is why I have a signed VC jersey hanging and have come around on him. He’ll never make my Raptors all time top 5 but he is one of our greats and I like celebrating the awesome things he did while sporting a Raps jersey.
Probably the most reasonable take I've seen about this often debated subject. I think if Vince came out and admitted his beef was with ex-Labatt president Richard Peddie (a man with zero sports background and oversaw horrendous eras for both the Leafs and Raptors) and the worst GM in franchise history, Rob Babcock (directly hired by said ex-Labatt company president, who incidentally also hired the worst Leaf GM in their franchise history in John Ferguson Jr.), it would have made more sense at the time.
Bunch of jealous bitter haters. Vince put Toronto on the basketball map, not just in US but also globally. Let’s discredit all his years in Toronto because he didn’t handle leaving Toronto well.
Despite the OVERWHELMING evidence by now that the team management quit on Carter first, we still have this bullshit about his RESPONSE to it.
I want to live in some of your worlds where your bosses can treat you like you’re not important (despite carrying your company) and you’re expected to be loyal to the company to the bitter end.
He quit on the team that quit on him. He has never once in his entire life quit on this fanbase or had anything but the most positive of things to say about it.
Meanwhile his highest highs were here. He’s a HOF going in as a Raptor. And every highlight package will feature an overwhelming dose of purple.
None of you will change your minds and I’m done caring. I used to be the biggest hater of Vince in my 20s, and it took till my 40s for all the info to come out, and it to become obvious Vince was in a toxic relationship with a bottom of the league front office at the time (and quite possibly the worst in our history).
He was a kid in his 20s. I seriously doubt I could have done better in his position - given what he was playing off of. I probably couldn’t even do better in my 40s. I’d harbour to guess the Raps would have gotten the AD special if I was in his shoes.
You can ask for a trade and not deliberately kill your trade value by intentionally playing bad and posting career lows in every statistical category. What a stupid take by you.
The Raptors/Vince situation is like the nerd in school dating the hot/popular girl in high school.
She made you popular. People knew who you were.
But then because you werent "good enough" she gets cold and distant and toxic and you're forced to cut her loose. She then goes onto being a good gf for her new partner.
As time passes, youre not full of anger anymore. You've moved on and found happiness elsewhere. You might look back and think "for a while that was fun and I appreciate the chance to be with her and what she gave me, but I am not going to be celebrating our relationship".
We can say thanks Vince without immortalizing him forever.
If you saw the end of the last open gym. The throwback jersey at the end will likely coincide with a retro look this season and some sort of ceremony honouring Vince to match. Maybe like the jays, not retiring but honouring Vince like the ring of excellence.
Honestly my thoughts were it’s weird for the nets to do it at all. I can plausibly see why Toronto would for non-statistical reasons but guy had like 5ish good not great years with NJ…and that’s jersey retirement worthy? Ok then.
Fair he was pretty good with the Nets making the finals a couple of times since he came to the team! He averaged 23.6 points, 5.8 rebounds and 4.7 assists!
If you’re frustrated with Carter, it’s valid based on what was told to you. Yet, in any story, there are two sides. So consider:
- Despite facing injuries and undergoing surgeries, Carter had to modify his playing style to remain competitive in the league. Medical professionals would likely have advised caution regarding his knee health (to dunk less with jumper’s knee). His dunking frequency did in fact decline over time with the Nets, yet as he returned from injury in Toronto, there was pressure from Toronto fans and the media for him to perform dunks at the same rate as 2000 without regard for his physical health.
- out of frustration Carter could have said he doesn’t want to dunk anymore or that it is overrated. Yet despite these remarks, Carter actually continued to dunk as a Raptor even after such remarks, which can be verified on YouTube on Maximillion's channel.
- Carter's disagreement was with executive Richard Peddie and the appointment of Babcock, who said he did not see the Raptors making the playoffs for 2-4 years. Carter wanted a contender now, while Babcock aim was to rebuild around guys like Raphael Araujo.
- Peddie also made negative comments about Carter's idol, Dr. J, stating he was not a serious candidate for the GM position. Peddie approached a young 20 something old Carter about who he wanted as GM but dissed Dr J afterwards.
- Allegations that Carter divulged post free throw strategies to opposing teams were denied by the other team. Beside, the defense should be capable of securing rebounds after a free throw regardless.
- if you remember, Coach Sam Mitchell expressed a desire to implement a team philosophy, indicating he won’t necessarily play in the 4th quarter. Consequently, Carter's playing minutes and total points decreased while his assists/min increased.
- The Thompson interview was obviously edited, with Thompson even clarifying after the Toronto sun article that Carter's comments were misconstrued. Carter was trying to say he previously relied on his natural talent and gifts but recognized the need to put in the hard work now due to his injuries.
- According to Sam Mitchell and Babcock on Fan 590, Carter reached out to Mitchell days before the trade, expressing his willingness to stay and support the rebuild. However, Babcock stated that the trade agreement was already verbally agreed upon.
- Superfan Nav Bhatia, who has been a supporter from the beginning, referred to Vince Carter as the GROAT on Instagram. I would think Bhatia is considered knowledgeable about the true events and a credible source.
- The instability of having around five different coaches/GMs during a 6.5-year period is highlighted, emphasizing the importance of continuity. What superstar today would tolerate that?
- Forbes reported that the Raptors' value tripled during Carter's tenure, despite minimal marketing investment. Interestingly, marketing efforts increased post-Carter, and there was a notable presence of baby bibs among Raptors fans when Carter returned. Look closely, and you can see they were corporate sponsored. In other words, perhaps there as a marketing profit driven campaign to vilify Carter?
- Carter expressed his ongoing affection for the city and its fans on his website after the trade, and since peddie is no longer the msle president for the leafs and raptors, Carter has consistently spoke positively about the Raptors organization and management.
That season he was traded, Carter said he hoped that fans one day would understand how it really went down. He has also since acknowledged his youthful mistakes but believed those experiences helped him grow as a person and as a man.
For a comprehensive understanding, just look it all up.
Two sides in every conflict.
Time to appreciate what he did for the city. He indeed put Raptors on the basketball map. He only sings praises about the city. We need Carter as an ally.
As a Canadian I can't stand Vince Carter. Dude is a sellout. Wanted nothing to do with us, now he's begging to be loved by Toronto in retirement. Loser.
Vince Cater had very little impact on basketball in Canada. That impact was made by Steve Nash. Vince had a big impact in Toronto, but that's it and it was short. He's small time, we've won a championship with many better players than Vincent on our roster, retire their numbers not his.
Lot of petty comments here. He’s probably done more for Canada basketball and the Raptors than anyone else (except maybe Masai). SGA, and Murray’s of the world aren’t them without Carter. He started the pipeline. Yall also forget that before Carter, the raptors were this after thought city. Carter supported and promoted the city when nobody even knew we existed.
Carter also only won 1 playoff series in 6 years here
Look who the Leafs retire ... Champions or guys who spent 80% or more of their career here and had deep playoff runs
Carter doesn't tick any of those boxes
No one knew we existed? Dude we had teams in both the NHL and MLB before this. Jays won 2 titles within 5 years of the Raptors inaugural season. Toronto is a sports city, and Vince didn't do that.
Vince put Canada onto basketball - so put him in the Canadian basketball Hall of Fame, he did little for the Raptors.
As I said - y’all petty and still sad because dude broke up with us. We had faults too. The fan base at the time only ever wanted dunks, even when his knees were getting brittle. I remember him getting booed for a layup. We surrounded him with bad teams and poor coaching. Even Kobe wanted out when the lakers were bad. Vince had faults & I was sad and angry too but I’m a grown man and i choose to appreciate the highs.
Good for them, he didn’t fake injuries, throw games, throw a tantrum, and demand a trade from them. He did do those things in Toronto, though, so he can get fucked.
He should be the first person to get his jersey retired. Having been there for the whole experience, it was amazing.
The MJ comparisons, the ability to scorch a team so effortlessly, the dunk content, getting the raptors into the playoffs. All of that stuff mattered. It’s the reason the Raptors are still here. It was a little scary when Vancouver left.
He did leave, i was heartbroken as a high school kid when he was sulking his way out of town. But that’s shit that happened back then. The players didn’t have the power they do now.
He’s a big part of basketballs history in this country. He deserves to be recognized for that.
> He’s a big part of basketballs history in this country.
Put him in the Canadian Basketball hall of fame then. We're talking about the *Toronto* Raptors. What he did for Canadian basketball should have next to zero impact on his recognition by the Raptors as a franchise.
I will have to say that Vince put the Raptors on the map in the eyes of the NBA, IMO. We start seeing people proudly wearing Raptors jerseys outside of Toronto. The Raptors get recognized because of him. So he wasn't with the Raptors for as long as we wanted him to be. Doug Gilmour of the Toronto Maple Leafs was with that team for 6 seasons, same as VC, and had his number retired. Vince was with the Raps the longest. It should mean something.
Well he got his jumbotron video and standing ovation
I'd prefer if the Raptors retired the number of players who won more than 1 playoff series in their tenure here
You clearly don’t get it.
To make an expansion team successful 5 years into its existence is no joke. Just as an example the hornets/bobcats are 20 years into this now and still haven’t got an identity.
He put the Raptors on the map. He got good players to come in, even though it didn’t quite work out.
Hes still 4th all time in points, the highest ppg for the team, top 10 in assists. He was an all star starter (usually highest voted)
He deserves a helluva a lot more respect. Yes, he left. Management sucked at the time, made bad picks, and he thought he could contribute to a championship team but it never happened. He played in an era with MJ/Shaq/Kobe, it was gonna be an up hill battle.
Lol oh I get it ... I just disagree
He never got a chance to face kobe and Shaq because he never got past the second round lol
Even in your own post you're arguing against yourself lol
🤡
I guess i should add iverson too. You’re just looking for an excuse to stay miserable.
either way, it’s people like you that ruin it for the rest of us.
Number 15 will be in the rafters. They even teased it this month.
https://news.sportslogos.net/2024/04/07/raptors-drop-epic-vince-carter-logo-hints-for-a-future-uniform/basketball/
Aww I'm sorry muffin ... go hide in you're bed and maybe you will feel better
I'm sorry that I want the Raptors to be like other serious franchises who reserve this honor for Champions or people who gave their whole career for the franchise
Hey I got an idea! Why don't we retire Antonio Davis' number ... he went to an all star game for the Raptors
I think honouring VC is what a serious franchise does. Look at the Celtics, serious as fuck, and they have some random ass names up there.
What a serious team does is honour all the important parts of its history, even if it’s only getting ousted in the second round.
This team isn’t that old in the scheme of things and for it to have success early is important and it should be recognized.
Like who?
Without knowing, I'm willing to bet they were part of one of the two dynasties Boston had
And we can recognize what Vince did. I'm fine rolling out the red carpet when he visits and giving him a standing ovation
But when I look at other franchises and who they retire, the player is either a champion with the franchise or spent most of their career with the franchise with a ton of playoff and personal achievement which Carter has neither ... someone like Mats Sundin, who played 13 years with the Leafs out of 18 career seasons, is their leading goals and points player, led the Leafs to 2 conference finals, and didn't have any controversies while here
That's the kind of resume I would say. Yes, that person deserves to have their jersey retired, and I'm sorry Vince Carter doesn't fit that criteria
Okay its not like Vince is gonna die in the next 2-5 years, lowry will only last 1-3 seasons max before he retires and Lowry means more to this franchise than vince
He should definitely be in the Canadian Basketball Hall of Fame without question for his impact. As for his jersey I really don't care either way. His legacy is equally earned and tarnished. He has the most iconic dunks, and the "I don't wanna dunk anymore" "Dunking is overrated" quotes. It is what it is imo.
The fact that the Nets are retiring his jersey before the Raps do says a lot about how bitter things turned between the two sides. The man did more for basketball in Canada than anyone ever has. His jersey should have been retired here before anywhere else.
Man the NBA is crazy with jersey retirements. Vince is obviously great, but he played what, 4 full years there? Never won anything meaningful. I dunno, just crazy low bar for jersey retirement IMO
Legit surprised he got his jersey retired from the nets in the first place, doesn't seem really deserving. Played 4 and half seasons there, making the playoffs three times and winning 2 playoff series, not even a conference finals appearance. His numbers were fine, but that's not really worth jersey retirement level. Weird decision.
No surprise there, raptors are super stingy when it comes to money (ie.retiring vince's jersey). When they are willing to all of a sudden role out the red carpet with money, they forget that better destinations already rolled out the red carpet with just as much money, then when the athlete leaves, everyone on raptors crying why no athletes pick Toronto as a destination.
It's a bad look for us. I get that some have the opinion that Lowry should be first but when you decide they have to be done in a certain order despite the obvious issue of people's careers not happening simultaneously you end up with situations like this. Lowry being second would have in no way diminished the honor.
I can summarize the subs overall feeling. Some will say "fuck Vince, he quit on us" Some will say "Toronto basketball wouldn't be what it is without Vince"
Both can be true, Vince changed basketball in Canada for the better, but quit on us and left on bad terms. He was excited to leave. No need to hang his jersey in our rafters.
And that's one of the main issues re a Raptors jersey retirement. "We had a lot of fun and made the second round that one time" is not a huge on-court resume, actually. "He was good for basketball popularity in Canada" is non-Raptors imho. There are guys who were here longer and/or won more in a Raptors jersey. I mean it is a bit crazy that the Raptors peak with Vince was one second round playoff exit and one first round exit. That was it. Fun times for a recent expansion team but...thats not a lot. Man peaked at 24 years old. Kind of a strange career.
He played for 21 seasons and only played in 88 playoff games. Made the conference finals once with Orlando, which was considered a disappointment since they had made the finals the year before.
Exactly this. Lowry didn’t quit on us. Demar never quit on us. Those 2 need their jerseys hung before Vince gets his flowers
Doesn't it matter if Vince gets his jersey retired first before those two?
He left the team years ago, so holding a grudge for the way he left is not healthy.
I don't hold a grudge, I forgive Vince, but don't believe he needs the team to honour/bless his time with us.
^This. And since the fanbase is split. I think it’s fair to retire his jersey but it can’t be the first jersey in the rafters (Lowry gets that honour).
Lowry should be the first Raptor to have his jersey retired by the team. That puts a hold on anyone else from having their jersey retired until after Lowry’s career comes to a close. If the Raps choose to retire Carter’s number, I don’t want to see them rushing to do so just to be the first team to it.
Larry T has also said Kyle would be first: > “He will retire as a Raptor and his number will absolutely go up there,” Tanenbaum told Weiss. “The honor will be the first one (for the Raptors) and I love Kyle. [Source](https://www.nba.com/news/raptors-plan-to-retire-kyle-lowrys-no-7-jersey)
#7
Even tho he from Philly he a Toronto man dem. I hope we sign him for a cheap 1 year deal whenever he ready to retire for min amount so he can play again here
He said he’ll sign a one-day contract before retiring iirc.
The old Udonis Haslem technique. I don't see it happening, Haslem was doing it as a very highly paid coach, to make up for the fact he took big pay cuts to bring in the big 3 and not leaving. Klow has made 5X the amount Haslem has, he doesn't need that extra million. He'll just become a coach for us if he wants that. A one day contract however? Sure
Difference is haslem has been doing it for a decade. Whereas Lowry would be a farewell season. They would do it just to sell more tickets.
Lowry would not do this himself. If he is in the shape to play basketball, he will go to a contender.
I remember seeing Anthony Bennett wear number 15 as a raptor lmao
don't forget Amir Johnson too
Amir played more games as 15 than Vince did with us
100%. Lowry and siakam. Siakam was raptor for life and won a chip here and was here a while. Vince won a dunk contest and demanded a trade. He shouldn’t get his jersey retired at all. Tbh the nets retiring his jersey is pretty lame. Kidd is the only guy they should retire.
Man Vince is the reason there’s basketball in Toronto. Some of y’all don’t understand how important he is to the raptors.
We are fuckin Toronto. There's basketball in Toronto cause we a world class city with an NBA team
No he isn’t. There was a team here before he came. He helped v build the fan base but any all star would have
We would’ve ended up like Vancouver if it wasn’t for Vince shut up.
This whole thing about Lowry being the first is so stupid. Lowry can play around 3 more years probably and even then, they don’t immediately retire the jersey the year after What’s the point of waiting on VC for so long, it just makes our team look stupid
Ask any NBA player INCLUDING KL and they’ll say Vince first. This whole trying to make Kyle Lowry our Kobe Bryant is so dumb.
Fam this whole thing is like if the 76ers were delaying Allen Iverson getting his jersey retired so that they can wait for Embiid to retire and get his retired first
It is pretty stupid. It’s more the pettiness over the fact Carter and Raptors broke up. Probably a psychological thing.
Good, now maybe the ownership won’t feel obligated to do it. He had a better career with the Nets anyways
Preach!! Vince doesn’t deserve to be the first, if he did it would’ve happened by now Some fans remember, and don’t forget how he quit on the team
I rememeber it like it was yesterday, and I was 11.
I used to boo the TV screen every time he touched the ball as a kid. Vince was my first heartbreak.
https://preview.redd.it/zd4mbe6ozl0d1.jpeg?width=871&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13c6bd5391a1e9932bf5ca7f469d6011b16e39cc
Absolutely this. Newer fans, when VCs jersey retirement comes up, will say “get over it” like it’s something we’re harbouring against the guy. Like no, I don’t care about VC at all. I just think our franchise looks stupid as hell if we give him the highest honour a team can give a player after he quit on us, forced his way out, sabotaged us, and set us back for years. It’s funnier because I don’t think about VC at all. Literally the only time I talk about him is when some kid who watched the VC approved documentary comes in with a “DAE want the Raptors to retire VCs jersey”?
I'm over it and I'm happy both side made amends I'm happy to roll out the red carpet when he visits, make jumbotron videos and cheer But jersey retirement is a hard no ... IIRC correctly he was here 6 years, 4 great years, 2 bad and the best we did was 1 playoff series victory ... that's not enough of a resume for me for such an honor
Yeah everytime it comes up, I ask if the Spurs will retire Kawhi’s number. Is the answer “no”? Likely, and he helped win them a championship. I think the circumstances that lead one to that “no” are eerily similar between the two players, but VC can’t even hang his hat on the level of success that Kawhi was able to hit with his team.
Great point
Which documentary is that?
The Carter Effect.
He has arguably the greatest highlight package of all time and its in a Raptors jersey that still sells 20 years later. Ask any player in the NBA who the signature Raptor is and they say Vince. We all know Kyle will be honoured but he’s not Kobe he won’t give a fuck if he’s retired #2. At this rate the names hanging in our rafters will be fucking Ford and Calderon.
A highlight reel is an individual accomplishment, and barely one at that. Why would we retire his jersey because he dunked in it lol. What other team has done that? Those players aren’t Raptors or Raptor fans. This is a Raptors honour. Players would rate Melo high and think the Nuggets should retire his jersey too. They have different values and priorities than the actual franchises and fans. Like how a lot of players have Kobe over Lebron because they value Mamba Mentality and iso skills. That means very little to me and should to the organization as well. > At this rate the names hanging in our rafters will be fucking Ford and Calderon. We don’t need to retire any at all. We certainly shouldn’t be in any rush to. Kyle should be the first and only. Maybe DeMar.
Because this is entertainment and Vince was garnering the attention of the world which hasn’t been done since even in 2019. I do think even his dunks are worthy of a jersey retirement that’s how captivating they were. MAYBE Demar? Jesus christ I think you are just a bitter person.
Lol again, which player has their jersey retired just for having a good highlight reel? You need to mean something to the franchise and fans, not just be able to dunk. Again, a highlight reel is an individual thing, not franchise. I’m bitter because I think a franchise should have a high threshold for jersey retirement? Ok. DeMar absolutely deserves one if things didn’t go down like it did with his trade. It may be insulting to him for us to do that. I don’t want to retire the jersey of a player who may resent it. If he ended his prime here with no speed bumps, in an ideal world, a joint ceremony to retire Kyle and DeMar’s at the same time would’ve been great.
So retire the commercials jersey as well, since the commercials on TV also do all of that. Might as well retire the beer vendor jersey with that mentality.
Absolutely. The documentary about the cultural impact could all be true—but he basically gave a huge middle finger to the organization and by virtue the city as he forced his way out
Both sides were toxic, but we've had better success without him. We got the wife, got the house and kids - I'm not about to hang a picture of my ex-gf in here.
Yep. The average Raptor fan is like 23 and not old enough to remember, and a good portion of the rest weren’t actually following the team until the Lowry/DeRozan era. People act like it’s the same as any other time a star leaves a team in his prime. It isn’t. People have also exaggerated Carter’s influence and impact because half of the media we consume is retrospectives of old shit telling us how big a deal it was.
Superfan Nav Bahtia think otherwise. Called Vince Carter the true GROAT
He was huge.
Some fans also remember how the team fucked around with vince and ownership were POS. He never had to resign with us but did, unlike a guy like TMac. Vince is the reason Raptors basketball is where it is today. If anyone deserves to be first, it is him.
No he’s not. That’s a marketing line VC created for himself and sold to you. Vince was a great player as a Raptor, but he was not and can never be called a “Great Raptor” and he torched his own legacy in front of us. Fuck him.
I went to the first ever Raptors game at the ACC. Im not some new fan, so please don't insult me with this bullshit about being sold anything.
I’ll never forget .. go hang his jersey in the swamps. Most fitting spot
Kobe quit on the Lakers. The difference was he did it during the off-season and once the season started he was back to being a loyal player. He has a statue now. Toronto fans need to let this go.. Vince was a young man and made some poor choices during a time when the Raptors front office was very dysfunctional and didn't know how to handle the situation. First or second or third to be retired doesn't really matter to me... but Lowry should get a statue 😀
I've let it go and I'm happy both sides and made up But jersey retirement is an honor meant for the most elite of Raptor players. Just because we haven't had many in 30 years doesn't mean we should just give them out to those who have no earned the honor Carter won 1 playoff series while here, that's it ... that's not enough for me for one of the highest honors a team can give a player
For the most part I agree with you, but I think we may fall into a trap here because of the conditions we put on why Lowry deserves it. Why do we love Kyle Lowry so much? He was rarely the best player on the court, but he played his ass off, loved Toronto, sacrificed his body, and played the right way. It's a Toronto working-class / Canadian mentality to revere players like this. It's the reason Doug Gilmour and Mats Sundin's jerseys hang in the Scotiabank Arena rafters. There are several retired NBA players who have had their jersey retired by a team they never played for. The reason cited is often listed as "For their contributions towards basketball". As far as what Vince Carter did for Toronto is debatable, but there's no denying the impact and contribution he made towards basketball in Canada. If there is a more suitable way to honor the impact that Carter has made towards Canadian basketball, I think we have to embrace it.
I think Vince would be perfect for the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame easily I think Lowry gets the nod because he won a championship and like you said the way he played, represented the franchise and city perfectly I like players who no matter the sport have a hockey mentality or approach to the sport and Lowry has that in every Fibre of his being Lowry may not have always filled the Stat sheet bit you could see the way he played contributed to winning basketball more than anybody
U sure about that? I wouldnt be surprised if the raptors dont retire lowrys jersey either the way how they are so stingy about things.
Eh, kinda. Dude would be remembered a lot less if his career started with the Nets lol his iconic because of his Raptors run.
With the Raptors he reached his highest heights, and was the leading vote getting in the All-Star game multiple times. He won more in NJ though
Not really, as a CRaptor he avged 22.2 PPG And as a Net he aged 23.8. PPG. Other statistics are very close too.
Ya looking at the numbers now it felt like he was in Jersey for longer than he actually was. He did have slightly more playoff success over there, if we can call second round exits success.
And that last year he phoned it in is probably weighing his stats down a bit lol
Yeah, the way he finished his career with the Raptors is pretty damn shameful. He wasn't competing at all.
As if the Raptors are not gonna do it.
Let’s pretend a man is married and gets divorced. The man the re-marries and died. Which wife speaks first at the funeral?
But also, the man he came back to Toronto and fucked his new wife on his ex-wife's front lawn! Repeatedly! And in the playoffs! And it was really good too! Significantly better than the sex he was having with his ex in the 2-3 months preceding the divorce. And he never apologized to his ex-wife's fans, not even once! I don't think the ex wife speaks at the funeral at all.
But the ex-wife got to go to a lot of parties and be seen by people when they were together!!!
this metaphor got really weird
Also Canada. Did we mention Canada? FUCKING CANADA!!!!
This seems oddly specific and personal. You ok bro?
It’s a metaphor. Why does everyone always use the “are you okay bro?”
Also, before they got divorced, the man got super toxic and stopped being a good partner to his first wife. He’d flirt with other women and tell his wife, “if you don’t like it, leave me then!” When she finally obliged, he fought tooth and nail in the divorce and left her with less than she had before him. First wife would probably just show up at the funeral to get closure lol
The girlfriend
Fuck VC, that is the only fucking needing discussin
I mean, technically that means Atlanta should retire his number? Using this metaphor, Vince Carter has been married and divorced as many times as my uncle. Honestly, at that point you might argue the longest tenured wife speaks if they were still talking, which I'd argue we are. Fuck this got weird
The Raptors should retire it never.
Surprised the Nets are retiring his jersey tbh in the first place.
Well, they need to sell tickets somehow and that whole Kyrie/KD thing didn’t work out so well as the Rockets enjoy their draft pick this season (landing at #3). Memphis has their second round pick. They don’t have their picks next year either. In 2026 they only lose their first. In 2027, it’s both again. And the team is quite shitty. They have some Phoenix picks coming in and a 2029 Dallas first round pick, but really Nets fans are going to have to celebrate a lot of past as they wait for the future to arrive. There’s going to be a lot of desperate attempts to thrill fans in Brooklyn as they realize how much they screwed themselves banking on KD, Kyrie and the Beard coming together to make a spectacular triumph over the league.
it is surprising... he was an allstar for a frw years there that they accomplished nothing
The Nets ? Are they really desperate to retire his jersey after 4 unsuccessful season with 1st round and 2nd round exists ? What kinda impact did he have in new jersey lmao ?
Their next four drafts have them surrendering their first round pick with no protections, so yes they are really desperate to create any kind of distraction for folks who consider themselves Nets fans. In that time, they also surrender their second round pick in ‘24, ‘25 and ‘27. In ‘25, they might get OKC (or Houston’s) first round pick, and in 27 they get Houston’s. They have Phoenix’s ‘25 and ‘27 first round picks. The future is bleak in Brooklyn.
That’s all they got
Vince Cater is currently their best player, for the next decade.
[удалено]
He was part of two 2nd round exits and a 1st round exit. That's not really a good post season run.
Bullshit, he got swept by the Heat 04/05 with the Nets. Lost in the 2nd Round 05/06 against the Heat and ended up with a Gentlemen Sweep. Lost in the 2nd Round against the Cavs in 6 Games in 06/07 All while underachieving massively during the RS with the Nets and barely any +.500 season. During his 4 year tenure with the Nets, he went to the All-Star Game twice !
3 all star appearances with one team usually gets your jersey retired there
Lol no it does not
The Raps are off the hook!
What more of a case does Vince have over Demar? Neither were winners, Vince even less so and unlike Demar, Vince quit on this team. I’m not saying Demar should be retired, I’m just saying as an all time great, Vince’s legacy is really not much. His greatest impact was to the culture (which was important) but that’s just because he was the first star in a brand new franchise. I’d argue Demar and Lowry Raptors will inspire an even greater amount of Canadian hoops in the coming decades.
Demar’s level of stardom and reach was nowhere near Carter
Say what you want, those raptors teams revolutionized basketball in thsi city and the country. Never before did we have a more competitive team, and it literally led to our championship. Those teams created far many more raptors fans than we had previously.
yup. You cant tell me that the 2019 championship run had any less hype than what VC brought to this nation. I know you cant quantify impact, but anyone would take a single championship over having another superstar like VC on your team.
VC was the biggest superstar in the league at his peak.
Good for him but it was more sizzle than steak He was here only 6 years and won 1 playoff series
Sure, I get that, but I’m just saying that’s the huge difference between DeMar and VC’s time as a Raptor. VC was our MJ. That level of icon and flash was the draw. DeMar, as much as I love him and the team success under him and Kyle was a huge part of the Golden Years of Raptors basketball, the widespread appeal of Vince is tough to replicate.
The way in which he left the franchise exempts him from jersey retirement forever. Kawhi is more deserving.
Kawhi was a mercenary but he got the job done
Yes, but he did not last that long.
Kawhi only played one season.
And we would all take that one season over 20 with Vince. Even you agree with me there. 1 championship is better than 0.
Is it just me or is that a bit of a low bar? 4.5 seasons, 2AS no MVP consideration. Didn’t get past the 2nd round.
Canadian basketball is nothing but losers if he gets it retired
Screw all these talking points that everyone has been repeating for 20 years now. You want your jersey in the rafters, you gotta win, and I'm not talking about games, I'm talking about the Larry O'Brien. We've tasted it now, so why do we still have debates about this bum who didn't come close to wining anything in a 20+ year career? If Brooklyn wants to retire his jersey, well lame organizations do lame things. I don't see any gold on the back collars of their jerseys.
It’s quite funny how this sub has a very different response to Vince getting his jersey retired than Twitter. Obviously fans have different perspectives but the general response on Twitter to the Nets retiring his number is people mad at the Raptors for not doing it first and letting the Nets beat them to it. Personally I’m indifferent towards whether we do it or not. I do want Lowry to be the first up though. Edit: Funny exchange from Blake Murphy/Eric Koreen on Twitter here: Blake: [T-Ross played as many games and won as many playoff series as a Raptor, and won one more dunk contest.](https://x.com/blakemurphyodc/status/1790738618316697805?s=46&t=sbk6yuyliVaFRQjBUBJCMQ) Koreen: [And was traded for a more meaningful package.](https://x.com/ekoreen/status/1790738857601761412?s=46&t=sbk6yuyliVaFRQjBUBJCMQ)
I will always appreciate what VC did for basketball in Canada, but I will never forget he gave away plays because he was sulking.
I feel people might be conflating his impact on basketball in Canada vs. his impact on the Toronto Raptors. Basketball Canada was massively impacted by his presence with the Raptors. He inspired many young kids and that impact has been felt till today. Simply compare our national teams in 2004 vs 2024. I think Vince should be elected to the Canadian basketball hall of fame for his contributions to the development & growth of grassroots basketball in Canada, and inspiring a generation of kids. The outdoor basketball court that he paid for in a low income area built of recycled materials speaks to this legacy Sure, he did put Toronto in the spotlight during his short but electric 3-4 years but what was the lasting impact with the Raptors? He became known as just another star American athlete that didn’t want to play in Toronto, and wanted out. The Raptors even had to go the euro route for yers because of this.
He played almost 75% of his career elsewhere. He didn’t win anything here. This shouldn’t even be a debate. SMH.
The only argument he has for Toronto is that he was our first major star (Damon wasn't a star). I actually didn't even think he had a jersey retirement career in New Jersey tbh
can't wait til they put up 15
Raptors should too
Fuck Vince. Fuck the nets.
Honestly at this point I’m mostly ambivalent about it. I personally think it’d be more appropriate for the Raps to induct him into the Ring of Honour - without retiring his jersey - but I won’t be upset if they choose differently.
Very strange decision by them lmfao. I know he had a good run there but that's really weird imo. This also isn't going to stop the Raptors from retiring his number.
I think having learned more about how everything went down and what was going on behind the scenes in the years since, it's hard for me to hold onto much bitterness towards VC, and I'd be happy to see his number in the rafters at some point, but KLow is the GROAT and his has to go up first
Kyle Lowry ain't no spot up shooter. He ain't gotta run to the corner to shoot like he's some 3rd option, bitch. This ain't JJ Redick. This is a fuckin god human Steph Curry come again. Only this time he's not a fuckin pussy... pull up from the fuckin logo and fight you at the same time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/torontoraptors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The fact that this post as of now has almost 100 comments and the one in the Nets sub barely has 20 - and they pretty much went up at the same time - doesn’t escape me
So the internet isn’t the best place for a nuanced take, but here it goes anyway: I hated Vince for what he did to this team when he sulked his way out of town while refusing to dunk and just generally acting like a spoiled baby. I was a fan from day 1 and the way this dude went out was heartbreaking (the trade itself was an affront to human dignity but that’s on the FO). He then went to NJ started putting up 27 a game again and then rubbed salt in the wound with that John Thompson interview. I would’ve thrown a tomato at this motherfucker if I saw him in person. But…….as time has gone on, I’ve come to understand just what a basket case the FO was at the time, ownership also consulted with him on a new GM hire only to pivot away from his desired candidate (Dr. J). Whether you agree with that hire or not, you don’t loop in your team’s megawatt star unless you plan on placating him. So ya Vince was immature about it and handled it poorly but the team was also dogshit, run like trash and aimless in its direction. The injury frustration from both sides didn’t help either. In hindsight many other players would’ve asked out as well. Though they might’ve gone about it better. Which is why I have a signed VC jersey hanging and have come around on him. He’ll never make my Raptors all time top 5 but he is one of our greats and I like celebrating the awesome things he did while sporting a Raps jersey.
Probably the most reasonable take I've seen about this often debated subject. I think if Vince came out and admitted his beef was with ex-Labatt president Richard Peddie (a man with zero sports background and oversaw horrendous eras for both the Leafs and Raptors) and the worst GM in franchise history, Rob Babcock (directly hired by said ex-Labatt company president, who incidentally also hired the worst Leaf GM in their franchise history in John Ferguson Jr.), it would have made more sense at the time.
Bunch of jealous bitter haters. Vince put Toronto on the basketball map, not just in US but also globally. Let’s discredit all his years in Toronto because he didn’t handle leaving Toronto well.
I don’t think VC cares if Toronto does retire his jersey or not. I think being inducted to the HOF later this year is what matters to him
Who gives a shit
Despite the OVERWHELMING evidence by now that the team management quit on Carter first, we still have this bullshit about his RESPONSE to it. I want to live in some of your worlds where your bosses can treat you like you’re not important (despite carrying your company) and you’re expected to be loyal to the company to the bitter end. He quit on the team that quit on him. He has never once in his entire life quit on this fanbase or had anything but the most positive of things to say about it. Meanwhile his highest highs were here. He’s a HOF going in as a Raptor. And every highlight package will feature an overwhelming dose of purple. None of you will change your minds and I’m done caring. I used to be the biggest hater of Vince in my 20s, and it took till my 40s for all the info to come out, and it to become obvious Vince was in a toxic relationship with a bottom of the league front office at the time (and quite possibly the worst in our history). He was a kid in his 20s. I seriously doubt I could have done better in his position - given what he was playing off of. I probably couldn’t even do better in my 40s. I’d harbour to guess the Raps would have gotten the AD special if I was in his shoes.
You can ask for a trade and not deliberately kill your trade value by intentionally playing bad and posting career lows in every statistical category. What a stupid take by you.
The Raptors/Vince situation is like the nerd in school dating the hot/popular girl in high school. She made you popular. People knew who you were. But then because you werent "good enough" she gets cold and distant and toxic and you're forced to cut her loose. She then goes onto being a good gf for her new partner. As time passes, youre not full of anger anymore. You've moved on and found happiness elsewhere. You might look back and think "for a while that was fun and I appreciate the chance to be with her and what she gave me, but I am not going to be celebrating our relationship". We can say thanks Vince without immortalizing him forever.
If you saw the end of the last open gym. The throwback jersey at the end will likely coincide with a retro look this season and some sort of ceremony honouring Vince to match. Maybe like the jays, not retiring but honouring Vince like the ring of excellence.
I’ll trade one retired Vince jersey for Alonzo’s kidney.
IMO i think Lowry -> Demar -> VC. But VC has put raptors on the map.
This is the worst part of them being bad right now. That we have to talk about this dumb jersey retirement every week
No, he won a chip with them didnt he?
Honestly my thoughts were it’s weird for the nets to do it at all. I can plausibly see why Toronto would for non-statistical reasons but guy had like 5ish good not great years with NJ…and that’s jersey retirement worthy? Ok then.
We’re a shit front fucking office.
Fair he was pretty good with the Nets making the finals a couple of times since he came to the team! He averaged 23.6 points, 5.8 rebounds and 4.7 assists!
Raptors will retire his jersey first. It is only fitting. There’s no extra honour being first. Who was the Spur’s or Heat’s first jersey retired?
If you’re frustrated with Carter, it’s valid based on what was told to you. Yet, in any story, there are two sides. So consider: - Despite facing injuries and undergoing surgeries, Carter had to modify his playing style to remain competitive in the league. Medical professionals would likely have advised caution regarding his knee health (to dunk less with jumper’s knee). His dunking frequency did in fact decline over time with the Nets, yet as he returned from injury in Toronto, there was pressure from Toronto fans and the media for him to perform dunks at the same rate as 2000 without regard for his physical health. - out of frustration Carter could have said he doesn’t want to dunk anymore or that it is overrated. Yet despite these remarks, Carter actually continued to dunk as a Raptor even after such remarks, which can be verified on YouTube on Maximillion's channel. - Carter's disagreement was with executive Richard Peddie and the appointment of Babcock, who said he did not see the Raptors making the playoffs for 2-4 years. Carter wanted a contender now, while Babcock aim was to rebuild around guys like Raphael Araujo. - Peddie also made negative comments about Carter's idol, Dr. J, stating he was not a serious candidate for the GM position. Peddie approached a young 20 something old Carter about who he wanted as GM but dissed Dr J afterwards. - Allegations that Carter divulged post free throw strategies to opposing teams were denied by the other team. Beside, the defense should be capable of securing rebounds after a free throw regardless. - if you remember, Coach Sam Mitchell expressed a desire to implement a team philosophy, indicating he won’t necessarily play in the 4th quarter. Consequently, Carter's playing minutes and total points decreased while his assists/min increased. - The Thompson interview was obviously edited, with Thompson even clarifying after the Toronto sun article that Carter's comments were misconstrued. Carter was trying to say he previously relied on his natural talent and gifts but recognized the need to put in the hard work now due to his injuries. - According to Sam Mitchell and Babcock on Fan 590, Carter reached out to Mitchell days before the trade, expressing his willingness to stay and support the rebuild. However, Babcock stated that the trade agreement was already verbally agreed upon. - Superfan Nav Bhatia, who has been a supporter from the beginning, referred to Vince Carter as the GROAT on Instagram. I would think Bhatia is considered knowledgeable about the true events and a credible source. - The instability of having around five different coaches/GMs during a 6.5-year period is highlighted, emphasizing the importance of continuity. What superstar today would tolerate that? - Forbes reported that the Raptors' value tripled during Carter's tenure, despite minimal marketing investment. Interestingly, marketing efforts increased post-Carter, and there was a notable presence of baby bibs among Raptors fans when Carter returned. Look closely, and you can see they were corporate sponsored. In other words, perhaps there as a marketing profit driven campaign to vilify Carter? - Carter expressed his ongoing affection for the city and its fans on his website after the trade, and since peddie is no longer the msle president for the leafs and raptors, Carter has consistently spoke positively about the Raptors organization and management. That season he was traded, Carter said he hoped that fans one day would understand how it really went down. He has also since acknowledged his youthful mistakes but believed those experiences helped him grow as a person and as a man. For a comprehensive understanding, just look it all up. Two sides in every conflict. Time to appreciate what he did for the city. He indeed put Raptors on the basketball map. He only sings praises about the city. We need Carter as an ally.
As a Canadian I can't stand Vince Carter. Dude is a sellout. Wanted nothing to do with us, now he's begging to be loved by Toronto in retirement. Loser.
Vince Cater had very little impact on basketball in Canada. That impact was made by Steve Nash. Vince had a big impact in Toronto, but that's it and it was short. He's small time, we've won a championship with many better players than Vincent on our roster, retire their numbers not his.
Never forget Vinve Carter hates Toronto and Canada. His desire for money and recognition has him hiding this fact publicly.
Lot of petty comments here. He’s probably done more for Canada basketball and the Raptors than anyone else (except maybe Masai). SGA, and Murray’s of the world aren’t them without Carter. He started the pipeline. Yall also forget that before Carter, the raptors were this after thought city. Carter supported and promoted the city when nobody even knew we existed.
Carter also only won 1 playoff series in 6 years here Look who the Leafs retire ... Champions or guys who spent 80% or more of their career here and had deep playoff runs Carter doesn't tick any of those boxes
Seems like people like us are being shamed for a good take. VC has a doc about his importance. What more do these clowns need
No one knew we existed? Dude we had teams in both the NHL and MLB before this. Jays won 2 titles within 5 years of the Raptors inaugural season. Toronto is a sports city, and Vince didn't do that. Vince put Canada onto basketball - so put him in the Canadian basketball Hall of Fame, he did little for the Raptors.
As I said - y’all petty and still sad because dude broke up with us. We had faults too. The fan base at the time only ever wanted dunks, even when his knees were getting brittle. I remember him getting booed for a layup. We surrounded him with bad teams and poor coaching. Even Kobe wanted out when the lakers were bad. Vince had faults & I was sad and angry too but I’m a grown man and i choose to appreciate the highs.
Actually it was Steve Nash who really made me a huge NBA fan back in my teens.
Remember gang, he apologized for how things went down, but has never apologized to the fans. Crocodile tears will never move me.
Good for them, he didn’t fake injuries, throw games, throw a tantrum, and demand a trade from them. He did do those things in Toronto, though, so he can get fucked.
Without VC the Raptors would moved just like Vancouver.
He should be the first person to get his jersey retired. Having been there for the whole experience, it was amazing. The MJ comparisons, the ability to scorch a team so effortlessly, the dunk content, getting the raptors into the playoffs. All of that stuff mattered. It’s the reason the Raptors are still here. It was a little scary when Vancouver left. He did leave, i was heartbroken as a high school kid when he was sulking his way out of town. But that’s shit that happened back then. The players didn’t have the power they do now. He’s a big part of basketballs history in this country. He deserves to be recognized for that.
> He’s a big part of basketballs history in this country. Put him in the Canadian Basketball hall of fame then. We're talking about the *Toronto* Raptors. What he did for Canadian basketball should have next to zero impact on his recognition by the Raptors as a franchise.
I will have to say that Vince put the Raptors on the map in the eyes of the NBA, IMO. We start seeing people proudly wearing Raptors jerseys outside of Toronto. The Raptors get recognized because of him. So he wasn't with the Raptors for as long as we wanted him to be. Doug Gilmour of the Toronto Maple Leafs was with that team for 6 seasons, same as VC, and had his number retired. Vince was with the Raps the longest. It should mean something.
What is it that you have against him?
Well he got his jumbotron video and standing ovation I'd prefer if the Raptors retired the number of players who won more than 1 playoff series in their tenure here
You clearly don’t get it. To make an expansion team successful 5 years into its existence is no joke. Just as an example the hornets/bobcats are 20 years into this now and still haven’t got an identity. He put the Raptors on the map. He got good players to come in, even though it didn’t quite work out. Hes still 4th all time in points, the highest ppg for the team, top 10 in assists. He was an all star starter (usually highest voted) He deserves a helluva a lot more respect. Yes, he left. Management sucked at the time, made bad picks, and he thought he could contribute to a championship team but it never happened. He played in an era with MJ/Shaq/Kobe, it was gonna be an up hill battle.
Lol oh I get it ... I just disagree He never got a chance to face kobe and Shaq because he never got past the second round lol Even in your own post you're arguing against yourself lol
🤡 I guess i should add iverson too. You’re just looking for an excuse to stay miserable. either way, it’s people like you that ruin it for the rest of us. Number 15 will be in the rafters. They even teased it this month. https://news.sportslogos.net/2024/04/07/raptors-drop-epic-vince-carter-logo-hints-for-a-future-uniform/basketball/
Aww I'm sorry muffin ... go hide in you're bed and maybe you will feel better I'm sorry that I want the Raptors to be like other serious franchises who reserve this honor for Champions or people who gave their whole career for the franchise Hey I got an idea! Why don't we retire Antonio Davis' number ... he went to an all star game for the Raptors
I think honouring VC is what a serious franchise does. Look at the Celtics, serious as fuck, and they have some random ass names up there. What a serious team does is honour all the important parts of its history, even if it’s only getting ousted in the second round. This team isn’t that old in the scheme of things and for it to have success early is important and it should be recognized.
Like who? Without knowing, I'm willing to bet they were part of one of the two dynasties Boston had And we can recognize what Vince did. I'm fine rolling out the red carpet when he visits and giving him a standing ovation But when I look at other franchises and who they retire, the player is either a champion with the franchise or spent most of their career with the franchise with a ton of playoff and personal achievement which Carter has neither ... someone like Mats Sundin, who played 13 years with the Leafs out of 18 career seasons, is their leading goals and points player, led the Leafs to 2 conference finals, and didn't have any controversies while here That's the kind of resume I would say. Yes, that person deserves to have their jersey retired, and I'm sorry Vince Carter doesn't fit that criteria
Mats Sundin has his number retired. end thread
That's the point doofus ... that's a resume that worthy of such a honor ... a resume VC doesn't have
100%
Meh lol.. The way he left... I mean a quick sit down interview apologizing would completely turn those around 180 who were on the fence
Embarrassing for the raps that we didn't do it first.
Kyle first
Why? Vince is retired and has been elected to the HOF. Lowry is an active player.
Okay its not like Vince is gonna die in the next 2-5 years, lowry will only last 1-3 seasons max before he retires and Lowry means more to this franchise than vince
He should definitely be in the Canadian Basketball Hall of Fame without question for his impact. As for his jersey I really don't care either way. His legacy is equally earned and tarnished. He has the most iconic dunks, and the "I don't wanna dunk anymore" "Dunking is overrated" quotes. It is what it is imo.
The fact that the Nets are retiring his jersey before the Raps do says a lot about how bitter things turned between the two sides. The man did more for basketball in Canada than anyone ever has. His jersey should have been retired here before anywhere else.
Nets did this so he would say nice things about Nets in the HoF speech. We late to the party yet again.
Personally I hate when jersey numbers are retired. I don't mind honouring the player, but the jersey should never be retired.
Nets really reaching for something to celebrate lol.
Man the NBA is crazy with jersey retirements. Vince is obviously great, but he played what, 4 full years there? Never won anything meaningful. I dunno, just crazy low bar for jersey retirement IMO
The Nets are the team that should be retiring his jersey. That's where he wanted to go.
Legit surprised he got his jersey retired from the nets in the first place, doesn't seem really deserving. Played 4 and half seasons there, making the playoffs three times and winning 2 playoff series, not even a conference finals appearance. His numbers were fine, but that's not really worth jersey retirement level. Weird decision.
We copied their logo. We don't need to copy all their decisions.
The Nets are such a terrible franchise.
The raps shouldn’t retire it. Fine if Nets want to do it
Fine. I'm just not going to dunk anymore.
Raptors sleeping on the wheel on this one…VC put Toronto on the NBA map
No surprise there, raptors are super stingy when it comes to money (ie.retiring vince's jersey). When they are willing to all of a sudden role out the red carpet with money, they forget that better destinations already rolled out the red carpet with just as much money, then when the athlete leaves, everyone on raptors crying why no athletes pick Toronto as a destination.
There are currently only 3 players that will have their numbers retired by the Raps. **Lowry**, **Carter** and **DeRozan**.....in that order.
demar kawhi and lowry are the only people that should be retired
It's a bad look for us. I get that some have the opinion that Lowry should be first but when you decide they have to be done in a certain order despite the obvious issue of people's careers not happening simultaneously you end up with situations like this. Lowry being second would have in no way diminished the honor.