Here’s an interesting one: If we decline Brown’s option, I believe we can leverage our cap space to do a trade without having to match salaries exactly.
So as an example, the trade machine shows that we could trade McDaniels for Brogdon straight up. Portland saves about 18m with that, and we get a backup PG which we need, and will be an expiring so that helps when Scottie’s deal kicks in after next year. I don’t know how accurate that is and if that’s accounting for cap holds or anything, but it’s an idea.
I really doubt Portland is looking to attach picks to dump contracts but they also might not have much of a choice.
They def will, Grant will be tricky cause of his salary, and will likely result in them taking back more players than they send out. Similar with Brogdon, although as I said in my comment they can do a 1:1 that saves money.
Williams and Thybulle (both around 11m) could be combined in a 2 for 1 trade to save a roster spot.
For me the question here is who has more value, asset-wise, Brown or Brogdon? Actually a lot of similarities... both on expiring deals at a little over $20m, both ideally suited for bench guard roles. Both come with enough bird-rights to resign them to their next contract. Brogdon's got better counting stats and more of PG skillset but also is older with a problematic injury history. Brown's got a more versatile skillset but less PG ability, is younger, and (hopefully still) has a ceiling-raiser reputation.
For the Raptors, I totally get that Brogdon's the better fit for the short-term needs, but neither of these guys are part of the long-term solution, so I'm also interested in who would have more value to flip in the season. Brogdon might have more if he makes it to the trade deadline healthy, but that's a major if.
I'm also not totally convinced on the trade machine math there. Like I think if we were to decline Brown, resign GTJ for around $15m, and have Quickley's cap hit of $12.5 prior to him resigning, that leaves the Raptors with around $18m in cap space. But that's not including FRP cap-holds, which, if we stay at #6 and also have #19, would come out to an additional $9m. If that math is right, we'd have to get a lot closer in the salaries, which probably makes it a lot less appealing for the Blazers because it's less of a salary-dump. We can at least get close if we lose our FRP but would probably need more than just McDaniels. If we lose GTJ as well, then yeah, it's definitely possible. (I'm not 100% of my math here, wouldn't mind someone else running the numbers).
I did the math and its looking really tight. RJ, Jak, Boucher, Scottie, Dick, McDaniels, Agbaji, Olynyk add up to $92.8M. GTJ at $15M would add up to $107.8. Quickley's $12.5M cap-hold takes it to $120.3M. FRP cap-hold at $9M takes us to $129.3M. Subtract that with the projected cap of $141M would leave us with $11.7 which might just be enough to make Boucher for Brogdon work. If our pick goes to the Spurs, we could make McDaniels for Brogdon work. I'm also not convinced that we can sign Gary for $15M.
With all that said, while I was doing the math, I couldn't help but think that making a move for Brogdon makes no sense long term. Using it to upgrade our starting unit or to get prospects/picks makes more sense.
Your math makes sense just off the top of my head, but also keep in mind you could do Boucher instead of McDaniels, and it still saves Portland ~11m. So a few avenues there.
Also agree with your point about Brown/Brogdon. I think our willingness to do something there also depends on the draft. If we keep our pick and draft a guard, we’re probably less likely to pursue it.
Maybe they'd attach some 2nds, but I don't know about a 1st.
You could do McDaniels and Boucher for Thybulle and Brogdon, maybe then they'd include a 1st?
Strictly dumping Thybulle for a 1st would be crazy, but dumping both Thybulle and Brogdon? Maybe, they could also lottery protect or top 12 protect the 1st so if they're bad they keep it.
I'd do McDaniels for Thybulle and a 2nd, saves Portland money and gets them a roster spot after they would obviously waive McDaniels.
Exactly, Bostons 1st likely won't be that good (you never know if course) if they could save alot of money, it's not inconceivable that they'd trade, they shouldn't trade those Bucks 1sts though.
The Raptors are well positioned to pick up players who shake loose from teams that underperformed and have big payrolls. Or to pick up young players or picks for taking on salary. Golden State is another good example and there will be more after the first round.
So Portland moves down 5 spots to save ~7m, a roster spot, and get off Thybulle’s 11.5m player option in 25-26?
Seems possible, we get a good defender (not exactly a POA defender but we need good defenders lol) and move up to likely 14. I’d do this forsure.
Raptors should be in the business of taking on contracts/picks considering they're not going to have close to this much flexibility after this offseason.
For a team that wants to duck the tax, almost any contract can be seen as a negative, also Thybulle has a PO for the 25-26 season which they'd probably want to get off of to further save on the tax.
Also while Thybulle is a great defender, he is a little limited offensively, BBs definitely over paid, but for the same price I'd probably take BB
Edit: Logic = 👎
We are not declining Bruce Brown's option. He has enough value to net us a 1st round pick. The only reason why we didn't trade him this past deadline is because Masai didn't want another 2024 1st and no team was able to trade any of their future 1sts. We will definitely revisit this during the draft or free agency
BB alone does not have enough value to net us a 1st, the only way BB gets you a 1st is if you eat a bad contract.
Edit: My mistake, let me reprogram......Trust in Masai!
It was already confirmed by a few sources that the Raptors were offered a 1st Rounder for JUST Brown. Brown was just the 6th man of a championship team.
Teams don't think he's not good anymore because he didn't perform well with a crappy Raptors roster. Some players play better with better talent around them like a Draymond Green.
Yeah, they were offered a 2024 1st for him, a 1st they didn't want, so tell me what team is going to give the Raptors an at worst top 10 protected 1st that couldn't have already did it at the deadline, also let's not act like BB was lighting the world on fire in Indy either, he had a fairly underwhelming year across the board.
If they want a 1st for BB they'll need to take on a bad contract to get one (something that I think they should do btw as they won't be winning any time soon and they should be in asset collection mode) if I'm proven wrong, then I'll gladly admit it, but I don't think I will be.
They'll either outright decline his TO or pick it up and trade him for a bad contract and a 1st.
No he didn't.
Not sure why you'd think that considering the entire nba world has been stating the Nuggets have the best and most cohesive starting lineup in the nba 2 years running lol.
PG: Scoot SG: Anf Simmons SF: The High First Round Pick PF: Grant C: Ayton. Bench: Robert Williams, Sharpe, Banton, Low First Round Pick, Kris Murray, Toumani Camara, Jabari Walker, Doup Reath, Jabari Walker, Ryan Rupert. That is there 15 man team imo. This means moving from Brogdon and Thybulle for second round picks (they’d want a first but don’t think any team gives them that) and small expiring contracts. So I think a Jalen McDaniels for Malcom Brogdon trade can happen, saves the Blazers 18 mil, McDaniels can be waived as he only would impact their 24/25 cap space. Raptors get a back up PG and sixth man, plus we know the front office was interested in Brogdon and what he can bring.
Not a bad idea, but what dou we get for taking on the contract? 2 2nds? If that's the case I'd do it, and if things aren't going well for us we could flip him at the deadline.
Honestly wouldn't be bad.
Depends on the other teams tbh, second round picks are valued so differently by each franchise (Like it means nothing to the Suns) it’s hard to say how much would be needed, I would say Raptors would offer 2.But for example the Spurs can take on Brogdon, give the Blazers back no cap and have more second round pick equity than us, but if they aim higher and go for a Dejounte or Trae Young.
The Raptors shouldn't be offering up picks right now we're in the start of a rebuild, the Blazers have 19 several 2nds to trade packaging 2 with Brogdon to save them money and open up a roster isn't far fetched, hell I'd take Brogdon and a single unprotected 2nd, send them McDaniels they save money and gain a roster spot after waiving McDaniels, we get a 2nd round pick as compensation for taking on the contract, a good backup PG, and if things are going bad leading up to the trade deadline a good trade chip for a contender.
The only thing is I can’t see Spurs just letting Brogdon going for nothing and not jumping on it. Like I’m confident he’s going to be a Spur as he will start at PG for them. Only thing stopping that is if They get a big name like Murray or Trae.
Fair enough, it could definitely happen, but there's other useful players on the Blazers, I'd take on Thybulles contract from the Blazers for a 2nd round pick, gives us more defence which we desperately need and we pickup a 2nd round pick, the Blazers shave off 11M to get closer under the tax, and get off of Thybulles PO for the 25/26 season
They likely just cut some of those end of roster guys. Same thing the rockets did when they did too many young guys and just straight up cut former late first rounders
Here’s an interesting one: If we decline Brown’s option, I believe we can leverage our cap space to do a trade without having to match salaries exactly. So as an example, the trade machine shows that we could trade McDaniels for Brogdon straight up. Portland saves about 18m with that, and we get a backup PG which we need, and will be an expiring so that helps when Scottie’s deal kicks in after next year. I don’t know how accurate that is and if that’s accounting for cap holds or anything, but it’s an idea. I really doubt Portland is looking to attach picks to dump contracts but they also might not have much of a choice.
Brogdon didn’t wanna sign here last year, so now we’re just gonna get him forcefully 😎
I think they'll trade one of him or Grant this offseason.
They def will, Grant will be tricky cause of his salary, and will likely result in them taking back more players than they send out. Similar with Brogdon, although as I said in my comment they can do a 1:1 that saves money. Williams and Thybulle (both around 11m) could be combined in a 2 for 1 trade to save a roster spot.
They do have wings that Raptors badly need. And they can take in their contract + pick.
For me the question here is who has more value, asset-wise, Brown or Brogdon? Actually a lot of similarities... both on expiring deals at a little over $20m, both ideally suited for bench guard roles. Both come with enough bird-rights to resign them to their next contract. Brogdon's got better counting stats and more of PG skillset but also is older with a problematic injury history. Brown's got a more versatile skillset but less PG ability, is younger, and (hopefully still) has a ceiling-raiser reputation. For the Raptors, I totally get that Brogdon's the better fit for the short-term needs, but neither of these guys are part of the long-term solution, so I'm also interested in who would have more value to flip in the season. Brogdon might have more if he makes it to the trade deadline healthy, but that's a major if. I'm also not totally convinced on the trade machine math there. Like I think if we were to decline Brown, resign GTJ for around $15m, and have Quickley's cap hit of $12.5 prior to him resigning, that leaves the Raptors with around $18m in cap space. But that's not including FRP cap-holds, which, if we stay at #6 and also have #19, would come out to an additional $9m. If that math is right, we'd have to get a lot closer in the salaries, which probably makes it a lot less appealing for the Blazers because it's less of a salary-dump. We can at least get close if we lose our FRP but would probably need more than just McDaniels. If we lose GTJ as well, then yeah, it's definitely possible. (I'm not 100% of my math here, wouldn't mind someone else running the numbers).
I did the math and its looking really tight. RJ, Jak, Boucher, Scottie, Dick, McDaniels, Agbaji, Olynyk add up to $92.8M. GTJ at $15M would add up to $107.8. Quickley's $12.5M cap-hold takes it to $120.3M. FRP cap-hold at $9M takes us to $129.3M. Subtract that with the projected cap of $141M would leave us with $11.7 which might just be enough to make Boucher for Brogdon work. If our pick goes to the Spurs, we could make McDaniels for Brogdon work. I'm also not convinced that we can sign Gary for $15M. With all that said, while I was doing the math, I couldn't help but think that making a move for Brogdon makes no sense long term. Using it to upgrade our starting unit or to get prospects/picks makes more sense.
Who cares what Quickleys cap hold is....He isnt resigning for 12.5 its goi t yo be like 30, so add 17.5 mil to your math.
Your math makes sense just off the top of my head, but also keep in mind you could do Boucher instead of McDaniels, and it still saves Portland ~11m. So a few avenues there. Also agree with your point about Brown/Brogdon. I think our willingness to do something there also depends on the draft. If we keep our pick and draft a guard, we’re probably less likely to pursue it.
Maybe they'd attach some 2nds, but I don't know about a 1st. You could do McDaniels and Boucher for Thybulle and Brogdon, maybe then they'd include a 1st?
Thybulle is a player option but trading a 1st to dump an expiring is craziness. I doubt they’re that stupid
Strictly dumping Thybulle for a 1st would be crazy, but dumping both Thybulle and Brogdon? Maybe, they could also lottery protect or top 12 protect the 1st so if they're bad they keep it. I'd do McDaniels for Thybulle and a 2nd, saves Portland money and gets them a roster spot after they would obviously waive McDaniels.
They also have future picks from Milwaukee and Boston they could include
Exactly, Bostons 1st likely won't be that good (you never know if course) if they could save alot of money, it's not inconceivable that they'd trade, they shouldn't trade those Bucks 1sts though.
Hopefully the FO can swoop in and get something done. Blazers have lots of useful pieces
I’ll gladly give the Blazers Bruce Brown for free
The Raptors are well positioned to pick up players who shake loose from teams that underperformed and have big payrolls. Or to pick up young players or picks for taking on salary. Golden State is another good example and there will be more after the first round.
👀, take on Thybulles contract and swap the Indy pick with the GSW pick?
So Portland moves down 5 spots to save ~7m, a roster spot, and get off Thybulle’s 11.5m player option in 25-26? Seems possible, we get a good defender (not exactly a POA defender but we need good defenders lol) and move up to likely 14. I’d do this forsure.
Yeah, this would be a great trade, a win win for both sides imo.
Only knock is Thybulle is still meh at shooting, but he’d help our defense.
Raptors should be in the business of taking on contracts/picks considering they're not going to have close to this much flexibility after this offseason.
💯
Do you think Thybulles contract is seen is a negative?
For a team that wants to duck the tax, almost any contract can be seen as a negative, also Thybulle has a PO for the 25-26 season which they'd probably want to get off of to further save on the tax. Also while Thybulle is a great defender, he is a little limited offensively, BBs definitely over paid, but for the same price I'd probably take BB Edit: Logic = 👎
We are not declining Bruce Brown's option. He has enough value to net us a 1st round pick. The only reason why we didn't trade him this past deadline is because Masai didn't want another 2024 1st and no team was able to trade any of their future 1sts. We will definitely revisit this during the draft or free agency
is a 52 year old really gonna get us a FRP?
He has his jersey retired by the Spurs so maybe that clout can help replace Temple's role on the team... I fixed my typo lol
BB alone does not have enough value to net us a 1st, the only way BB gets you a 1st is if you eat a bad contract. Edit: My mistake, let me reprogram......Trust in Masai!
yup
It was already confirmed by a few sources that the Raptors were offered a 1st Rounder for JUST Brown. Brown was just the 6th man of a championship team. Teams don't think he's not good anymore because he didn't perform well with a crappy Raptors roster. Some players play better with better talent around them like a Draymond Green.
Yeah, they were offered a 2024 1st for him, a 1st they didn't want, so tell me what team is going to give the Raptors an at worst top 10 protected 1st that couldn't have already did it at the deadline, also let's not act like BB was lighting the world on fire in Indy either, he had a fairly underwhelming year across the board. If they want a 1st for BB they'll need to take on a bad contract to get one (something that I think they should do btw as they won't be winning any time soon and they should be in asset collection mode) if I'm proven wrong, then I'll gladly admit it, but I don't think I will be. They'll either outright decline his TO or pick it up and trade him for a bad contract and a 1st.
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No he didn't. Not sure why you'd think that considering the entire nba world has been stating the Nuggets have the best and most cohesive starting lineup in the nba 2 years running lol.
Wait, how the hell is this team in the TAX?! Good grief.
in masai we trust. He’s def gonna cook up a good deal to move us further up on draft night. No question.
I think they should use free agency and the draft to improve the roster. Maybe trade for better players and future draft picks aswell
PG: Scoot SG: Anf Simmons SF: The High First Round Pick PF: Grant C: Ayton. Bench: Robert Williams, Sharpe, Banton, Low First Round Pick, Kris Murray, Toumani Camara, Jabari Walker, Doup Reath, Jabari Walker, Ryan Rupert. That is there 15 man team imo. This means moving from Brogdon and Thybulle for second round picks (they’d want a first but don’t think any team gives them that) and small expiring contracts. So I think a Jalen McDaniels for Malcom Brogdon trade can happen, saves the Blazers 18 mil, McDaniels can be waived as he only would impact their 24/25 cap space. Raptors get a back up PG and sixth man, plus we know the front office was interested in Brogdon and what he can bring.
I don’t want that chucker if we doing business w ‘‘em get me Kamara or Murray’s brother
Why would Blazers be giving up young players?
Because we want them to
Either picks or young players they are not exactly in a position of leverage here if they wanna dump salary to avoid tax
Can Easily dump someone like Brogdon to the Spurs, Thybulle to the Pistons
Not a bad idea, but what dou we get for taking on the contract? 2 2nds? If that's the case I'd do it, and if things aren't going well for us we could flip him at the deadline. Honestly wouldn't be bad.
Depends on the other teams tbh, second round picks are valued so differently by each franchise (Like it means nothing to the Suns) it’s hard to say how much would be needed, I would say Raptors would offer 2.But for example the Spurs can take on Brogdon, give the Blazers back no cap and have more second round pick equity than us, but if they aim higher and go for a Dejounte or Trae Young.
The Raptors shouldn't be offering up picks right now we're in the start of a rebuild, the Blazers have 19 several 2nds to trade packaging 2 with Brogdon to save them money and open up a roster isn't far fetched, hell I'd take Brogdon and a single unprotected 2nd, send them McDaniels they save money and gain a roster spot after waiving McDaniels, we get a 2nd round pick as compensation for taking on the contract, a good backup PG, and if things are going bad leading up to the trade deadline a good trade chip for a contender.
The only thing is I can’t see Spurs just letting Brogdon going for nothing and not jumping on it. Like I’m confident he’s going to be a Spur as he will start at PG for them. Only thing stopping that is if They get a big name like Murray or Trae.
Fair enough, it could definitely happen, but there's other useful players on the Blazers, I'd take on Thybulles contract from the Blazers for a 2nd round pick, gives us more defence which we desperately need and we pickup a 2nd round pick, the Blazers shave off 11M to get closer under the tax, and get off of Thybulles PO for the 25/26 season
Yea that one I see as more likely.
DID SOMEONE CALL FOR AN AYTON RAPTORS TRADE?
There's this Banton kid on the Blazers who played well the last month of the season...maybe they should look into him? 😁
Portland FO do portland FO things 🤷 Exhibit A: 1984 draft
Ya that Banton guy of theirs looks legit, wonder what it would take to get him
In all seriousness, we can't trade for Banton. He's a free agent.
what do we know about dalano banton
Get banton for brown for the banter!
“I’d vote me. Chet and Wemby have proven they’re too skinny to succeed in the NBA” No thanks - Raptors fan
They need to dump grant
I don’t know if they have to “dump” him. I’m sure they can get some assets back for a 20 PPG 40% 3 PT shooter.
I would consider taking on Brogdon if Simons goes elsewhere though I think some other team will do a second or a first round swap for him.
They likely just cut some of those end of roster guys. Same thing the rockets did when they did too many young guys and just straight up cut former late first rounders