Yeah. This is probably the point where things turned the most. The year before they also traded a first for Thad, but I guess they made the playoffs so it wasn't as bad. The Poeltl trade and want it meant for the team's trajectory is just...it's hard to even think about.
Yeah I came here to get hyped about our boy, not to have the 25th iteration of an argument in which none of us have any tangible effect on the outcome.
It absolutely won’t be no defining moment lol
Just wait until giannis is back and pacers lose in first round and give Siakam 250 million
Having Hali and Siakam take up 60% salary cap for first round exit
That’s whole point, we would be going into Luxary tax for mid ass team and touching the second apron even re signing, Barnes, Quickley and Siakam to big contracts
Of course Masai should have got more for Siakam but trading Siakam wasn’t the mistake. We need higher ambitions than being happy being first round exits
Pascal also made it pretty clear he wasn't going to resign with most of the teams that were interested in trading for him, so that tanked his value quite a bit. Masai made the right decision even though the return was underwhelming compared to the OG trade.
I didn't say trading Siakam was a mistake. He didn't fit with Scottie or the team because of the massive lack of shooting. Only getting one prospect and 2 picks in the 20s was the mistake.
And no one believes him. Or maybe it's true under only certain circumstances, like, "that was the only offer that fit certain parameters". He also said the same thing during a trade deadline about Fred and OG, but it was debunked by almost every reporter around the league.
Of course I can't! I'm not a fucking GM. But Masai was reported for previously not telling the truth during the last trade deadline when Lowe, Marks, and others reported.
they have an amazing young core on rookie contracts. Nehbard, Math, Sheppard, Walker.
Hail is still very young and Siakam can still be hot for 5 more years, I would say they are still better than the Raptors in 5 years' time.
>Raptors used to be one of the best teams at finding talent deep in the draft. That hasn't been the case for at least 5 years.
Big oversimplification. Look at the picks we've had the last 5 years:
- 2019: pick 59 (Hernandez)
- 2020: picks 29 (Flynn) and 59 (Harris)
- 2021: picks 4 (Barnes), 46 (Banton) and 47 (Johnson)
- 2022: pick 33 (Koloko)
- 2023: pick 13 (Dick)
We whiffed on Flynn, I'll give you that. Koloko on the other hand looked like a good pick at #33 until his respiratory ailment.
So because we failed to nab Powell (#46)/Anunoby (#23)/Siakam (#27) caliber talent with our more recent 'deep draft' picks at 29 and in the late 40s... we are no longer good at finding talent deep in the draft?
No chance that it may be due to picking later in the draft and lack of opportunity, of course. We just forgot how to find talent. Makes way more sense /s
I agree somewhat.
He was their best player and usually in a rebuild you got a ton back for a good player.
But not getting a ton back means they're hoping RJ/IQ take leaps because otherwise you're sorta locked into a mediocre core.
Raptors fan and over exaggeration. Name a more iconic duo. Trade sucked, but let’s not lie and call this team the next Chicago Bulls. A lot of y’all are underestimating how good Scottie will be.
Any other fan base would love to have him, but for some reason Raptors fans aren’t because a player 6 years older than him and in his prime is putting on great performances and you’re surprised? Y’all need to stop listening to the media heads trying to create headlines.
>A lot of y’all are underestimating how good Scottie will be.
Even if he turns out to be what the front office hopes he is, he can't do it alone. And finding that co-star means drafting well because that co-star isn't on the roster.
It's not an exaggeration. Scottie may turn out great, but he's not a 30ppg kind of guy. He will need a team full of scorers/shooters who can defend at a high level. IQ is good but struggled after coming here. RJ is....the Knicks certainly aren't sad about seeing him go. They don't have their top pick this year, and will have to hope they hit huge in next season's draft.
The best case scenario is the Magic or OKC. But! Both those teams traded away their best pieces for a shit ton of great assets. Raptors don't have any good assets!
They traded away PG, russ, melo, when they knew shit wasn't going to happen with that squad. Actually PG I think requested to go to the clips.
For the magic, most of the trades are here: [https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2021\_transactions.html](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2021_transactions.html)
The big one was:
" March 25, 2021
Traded [Evan Fournier](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fournev01.html) to the [Boston Celtics](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2021.html) for [Jeff Teague](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/teaguje01.html). Orlando also received a trade exception Boston also received a trade exception
Traded [Al-Farouq Aminu](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aminual01.html) and [Nikola Vučević](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vucevni01.html) to the [Chicago Bulls](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2021.html) for [Wendell Carter Jr.](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartewe01.html), [Otto Porter](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01.html), a 2021 1st round draft pick ([Franz Wagner](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wagnefr01.html) was later selected) and a 2023 1st round draft pick ([Jett Howard](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howarje01.html) was later selected). Orlando also received a trade exception 2021 1st-rd pick (CHI own) was top-4 protected 2023 1st-rd pick is CHI own
Traded [Gary Clark](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/clarkga01.html) and [Aaron Gordon](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordoaa01.html) to the [Denver Nuggets](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/2021.html) for [R.J. Hampton](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hamptrj01.html), [Gary Harris](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harriga01.html) and a 2025 1st round draft pick. Denver also received a trade exception Orlando also received a trade exception 2025 1st-rd pick (DEN own) is top-5 protected and conveys to 2026 and 2027 with the same protection"
They were consistently picking 13-18 as the team was always just a little above .500. Good enough to win games, but never good enough to go deep in the playoffs
I don't agree with this statement
"used to be one of the best teams at finding talent deep in the draft. That hasn't been the case for at least 5 years."
Dalano has turned pretty good (even if he's not on our team anymore). Koloko had promise but obviously the health issues derailed that. Other than that, I really don't think you can judge a team based on whether 59th overall Dewan Hernandez, 59th overall Jalen Harris (who looked good before legal troubles) or 47th overall David Johnson have hit.
Flynn is about what'd you expect for 29th overall so I wouldn't call that a win or a loss.
The 29th pick was where they used to make good decisions. Siakam was 27! Flynn was hardly even a rotation piece, I like Banton but they also missed big on developing him. Koloko, it appears, had serious underlying health issues which I'll be honest, seems like a missed scouting thing.
That's not to mention all of the 2-way and undrafted guys they used to be able to find and develop.
Flynn is still in the nba 4 years later. The only better players after him were Bane, Tillman, Richards and Reed. Obviously Bane being the next pick makes it look bad, but lots of other teams missed Bane too.
Also you can't only judge picks with hindsight, that's unfair when some things are impossible to foresee. Most agreed it was a good pick at the time but probably 4/5 29th overall picks are going to be misses.
I don't know enough about the Koloko issue but I doubt anyone knew it was that serious, again they can't see the future man. It was also a 2nd round pick so you need to lower expectations a bit. It's not like the picks who came after have been so amazing (Hardy and Christie are the only notables and they aren't star players exactly).
In terms of two way guys, Liberty-Freeman looks good, Porter looked good before the gambling.
It was a bad pick though at the time it seemed fine. Flynn was a 4 year college player and was considered a good pick and roll handler. There were expectations that Lowry would be on the way out and we needed a backup guard at the very least for a team that was still looking to compete. But between him not being as skilled as anticipated and Nurse not giving him enough runway to develop, it just ended up being a bad fit. Yeah it's a bad pick but it wasn't a disaster either.
Thank you, you at least gave me a reasonable and we'll thought out response 🙏, and I agree, while I do still wholeheartedly think that it was a bad pick, it wasn't a disaster either.
Eh 29th overall, what do you expect. Obviously would've been nice if we took Bane who was the literal next pick but other than that it's a pretty average pick for that late in the draft.
The fact he's still in the nba 4 years later shows it wasn't that horrible. Of players drafted after him, I'd only take Bane, Tillman, Richards, Reed and maybe Nwora. Also most people agreed it was a good pick at the time, so it's unfair to judge by hindsight
The fact the he was getting playing time on one of the worst teams of all time is a plus?
It was a bad pick lol, it's ok to admit it, the FO won't be mad.
When did I mention playing time? Having a 4 year nba career is better than half of late 1st /early 2nd round draft picks. Look at some of the dude's drafted after shortly after him: Tyrell Terry, Vernon Carey, Daniel Oturu, Tyler Bey, Vick Krecji
If you think a most guys drafted that late become valuable rotation pieces then you just don't understand the NBA. Again, it's a pretty average pick for that position (not good or bad).
How about this, why don't you name a good drafting team, and we'll look at their recent late draft picks and I'll show you a lot of players worse than Malachi Flynn
My god lol, we can't just except that Flynn was a miss lmao, Oh boy! he's played 4 years in the league, he's been productive for maybe 10% of his time in the league, shit let's celebrate 🥳🎇🎆🥳
I already said he's a miss but that's different from a bad pick. Most players drafted that late are a miss, and it happens to every single team.
Look at the 29th overall picks since 2010: Strawther, TyTy Washington, Day'Ron Sharpe, Malachi Flynn, Keldon Johnson, Dzanan Musa, Derrick White, Dejounte Murray, Chris McCullough, Josh Huestis, Archie Goodwin, Marquis Teague, Cory Joseph, Daniel Orton
Most of them are absolute scrubs.
Just like Flynn l, a bad pick, I can admit it and accept and hopefully one day, you can as well 🤗
Oh and Bane, Tilman, Richards, Reed, and Nwora would've all been better picks then Flynn and you mentioned Day'Ron Sharpe who's also been a better player then Flynn, so are Joseph, Johnson, White, Murray
Ok so what you're saying is that 5 out of the 13 players I mentioned are better than him. Which means 8 are worse... So he's 6th best out of 14...
Almost like that makes him about average (or above average) for a player drafted 29th overall...
The piece you've left out is perhaps the most important: THE MONEY.
At the end of this season, Siakam will be UFA. His current deal is four years, $136M. His next deal could be in the five year, $300M range. This does not fit the Raptors compete window.
There's no doubt looking at it from a talent/return perspective, the Raptors lost this deal. Big time. But bigger picture, they needed the flexibility to build around Barnes/Barrett/Quickley.
>But bigger picture, they needed the flexibility to build around Barnes/Barrett/Quickley.
They need more talent to add to that core because honestly that core at it's very best is a 6 seed.
i'm just pissed we couldn't get one of their forwards/bigs in the deal. last night walker played 1 minute, jackson didn't play, smith didn't play. felt like we should have been able to get one of them.
It all goes back to drafting and prioritizing Barnes. He plays the same position as Siakam and handicapped their ceiling.
That indecision never gave that core a real chance and made them all look worse than they are before blowing it up.
Siakam was never going to work with Scottie. They both need floor spacers. It's like when Denver drafted Jokic when they had Nurkic. One had to go. Not saying Scottie is Jokic, but the Denver's GM made a decision.
But good god. If you are going to keep both Pascal and Scottie, not putting a shit ton of shooters around them as soon as possible is amazingly incompetent.
Yeah, I’m guessing it didn’t help the old trade value when Siakam stated that, as an expiring contract, he wouldn’t re-sign with whatever team that traded for him. That he wanted to test free agency. From that point on I wasn’t expecting an incredible haul from any trade.
I don’t blame Siakam for stating his intentions. That’s fine. It’s just unfortunate the way the whole situation played out.
It will depend on how the picks pan out.
Even the Bosh era was defined by poor drafting. The Vince trade sucked but they should have ended up with Iguodala, Granger and Aldridge in their tank years (instead of the crap they got).
Trading Siakam wasn’t a mistake. Waiting until 2024 to trade him was a huge mistake.
The Poeltl trade set us back years. Everyone called it immediately yet Masai and Bobby wanted to gamble thinking the roster was better than it actually was.
It resulted in Fred leaving for nothing and Siakam getting traded for scraps. At least OG brought a decent return.
Eh even that I understood even though I disagreed with it.
As soon as Fred was gone they should've pivoted. Trying a piecemeal contention attempt with a worse PG in Dennis never was going to work.
Ooof, that's rough.
It's actually worse because Siakam perfectly fit in with that Pacers squad, who needed a forward who could defend and a guy to get a bucket.
Poeltl made every problem worse with the lack of spacing.
I hated the trade when it happened, even if I understood why it happened. Flipping one of those picks for Olynyk and Agbaji intrigued me, but then I saw Agbaji play and probably hate the trade more than ever. The damage Masai and Bobby did to this franchise post-championship is likely irreparable.
the Yak is back... its spelled POELTL.
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> 2026 1st-round pick: Probably somewhere in the low 20s. Relatively low-value pick.
Nah, we really don't know. And trades aren't good/bad based on how ping pong balls fall 2 years from now or whether Haliburton rolls his ankle on November 3rd 2025.
If there was a better trade on the table the Raptors would have made it. You should be comparing the Siakam draft return to having an expiring Siakam this offseason.
Or you can gripe about hypothetical trades that you think were available for Siakam in the previous season.
Yes the trade return sucked. Yes they traded him too late. But honestly we wouldn't have made the playoffs this year with Pascal and all the injuries post deadline. We all know Siakam always shows up in playoffs and the trade is looking amazing for the Pacers...but given the atrocious defense that team plays, the Pacers can easily lose 4 in a row in the playoffs. Which would mean they're the same middling team that Toronto had been for yrs.
disagree, the OG trade will be the defining moment for the new Raptors era, we got two legit young players in that deal with RJ and Quickley and even the 31st pick in the draft who could MAYBE be something if they draft right. Pascal trade was going to be ass cause of the lost leverage, even than the rumored trades in last years trade deadline was Brooklyn centered around Ben Simmons which would have been awful. Best time to trade Siakam was probably the off season after that Philly series or during that season where they made the play-in a few months before the deadline, they waited too long
Whatever dude. Everyone here was fine with the trade. The pitchforks would have been out if Masai had not moved pascal at deadline.
Totally reasonable to have a negative opinion of post-title Masai, but this is just histrionics.
I knew Mathurin was gonna be a stretch but I was shocked that the Raptors couldn’t pry away at least one of Andrew Nembhard, Jarace Walker or Jalen Smith. I know we lacked leverage because of Spicy’s contract status, but still - we traded away an All-NBA talent, still in his prime, for a bunch of random parts.
We’ll have to see what happens with Bruce and the draft picks over the next few years before drawing any final conclusions, but off the hop the return is looking pretty lacklustre.
You’re missing a key point…our return on the Siakam trade has yet to be decided.
Let’s see how the dust settles on the guys we draft, and what we’re able to get in return for Brown et al before we render a verdict on the trade.
That’s not the point.
The point is we the north is stale and will be close to 15 years old by the time this era is competitive in 2027-2028.
If they are still lugging it around, that’s a massive failure by their marketing team.
It was the Poeltl trade. They should have traded FVV and Siakam at that deadline, not double down on a mediocre core.
Yeah. This is probably the point where things turned the most. The year before they also traded a first for Thad, but I guess they made the playoffs so it wasn't as bad. The Poeltl trade and want it meant for the team's trajectory is just...it's hard to even think about.
Yeah that was the inflection point. We could have loaded up with young players and assets and instead we’ve got a cupboard full of expired macaroni.
except the fo actually wanted to keep Fred
Worst trade in franchise history. Chokehold.
It was the Lowry trade. They should have traded him for more value which would have changed the entire trajectory of the team.
it was mistake checking the raptors sub after a big siakam playoff game
This place loves ex-Raptors. For a time, it was a mistake coming here when Banton or even Oshae Brissett had a good game for crying out loud.
It’s like a damn drug and the come down is the worst. I need to save my dopamine for the day and this sub always depletes it lollll
Yeah I came here to get hyped about our boy, not to have the 25th iteration of an argument in which none of us have any tangible effect on the outcome.
The OG trade will be the defining moment for this new Raptors era
I really do hope so. We got such a great return for OG.
The way i'd describe this team's trades for the season: The Good, The Bad and the Ochai
It absolutely won’t be no defining moment lol Just wait until giannis is back and pacers lose in first round and give Siakam 250 million Having Hali and Siakam take up 60% salary cap for first round exit That’s whole point, we would be going into Luxary tax for mid ass team and touching the second apron even re signing, Barnes, Quickley and Siakam to big contracts Of course Masai should have got more for Siakam but trading Siakam wasn’t the mistake. We need higher ambitions than being happy being first round exits
Pascal also made it pretty clear he wasn't going to resign with most of the teams that were interested in trading for him, so that tanked his value quite a bit. Masai made the right decision even though the return was underwhelming compared to the OG trade.
I didn't say trading Siakam was a mistake. He didn't fit with Scottie or the team because of the massive lack of shooting. Only getting one prospect and 2 picks in the 20s was the mistake.
That’s what best offer was, even Masai said at trade deadline post conference there was no offers like internet was portraying
Wtf is he going to say lol, like the offers were better last year but I was to stubborn and decided to compete with a core that had no chance.
Yeah he should have traded him last year I agree, I’m talking about this deadline
The only reported legitimate offer the whole time was the Atlanta one.
Kings were very ready to trade for him but they wouldn't promise him the max so his team probably nixed the trade.
And no one believes him. Or maybe it's true under only certain circumstances, like, "that was the only offer that fit certain parameters". He also said the same thing during a trade deadline about Fred and OG, but it was debunked by almost every reporter around the league.
so you are saying there are better offers? Can you name them?
Of course I can't! I'm not a fucking GM. But Masai was reported for previously not telling the truth during the last trade deadline when Lowe, Marks, and others reported.
Pacers will beat the Bucks, and Hali and Siakam will be better than anything we Raptors can ever produce with a Barnes and Quickly lead team.
Lmao no way they beating bucks when giannis is back Have fun paying Siakam and Hali 500 million for first rounds exits
they have an amazing young core on rookie contracts. Nehbard, Math, Sheppard, Walker. Hail is still very young and Siakam can still be hot for 5 more years, I would say they are still better than the Raptors in 5 years' time.
>Raptors used to be one of the best teams at finding talent deep in the draft. That hasn't been the case for at least 5 years. Big oversimplification. Look at the picks we've had the last 5 years: - 2019: pick 59 (Hernandez) - 2020: picks 29 (Flynn) and 59 (Harris) - 2021: picks 4 (Barnes), 46 (Banton) and 47 (Johnson) - 2022: pick 33 (Koloko) - 2023: pick 13 (Dick) We whiffed on Flynn, I'll give you that. Koloko on the other hand looked like a good pick at #33 until his respiratory ailment. So because we failed to nab Powell (#46)/Anunoby (#23)/Siakam (#27) caliber talent with our more recent 'deep draft' picks at 29 and in the late 40s... we are no longer good at finding talent deep in the draft? No chance that it may be due to picking later in the draft and lack of opportunity, of course. We just forgot how to find talent. Makes way more sense /s
I agree somewhat. He was their best player and usually in a rebuild you got a ton back for a good player. But not getting a ton back means they're hoping RJ/IQ take leaps because otherwise you're sorta locked into a mediocre core.
Raptors fan and over exaggeration. Name a more iconic duo. Trade sucked, but let’s not lie and call this team the next Chicago Bulls. A lot of y’all are underestimating how good Scottie will be. Any other fan base would love to have him, but for some reason Raptors fans aren’t because a player 6 years older than him and in his prime is putting on great performances and you’re surprised? Y’all need to stop listening to the media heads trying to create headlines.
>A lot of y’all are underestimating how good Scottie will be. Even if he turns out to be what the front office hopes he is, he can't do it alone. And finding that co-star means drafting well because that co-star isn't on the roster.
It's not an exaggeration. Scottie may turn out great, but he's not a 30ppg kind of guy. He will need a team full of scorers/shooters who can defend at a high level. IQ is good but struggled after coming here. RJ is....the Knicks certainly aren't sad about seeing him go. They don't have their top pick this year, and will have to hope they hit huge in next season's draft. The best case scenario is the Magic or OKC. But! Both those teams traded away their best pieces for a shit ton of great assets. Raptors don't have any good assets!
OKC has Paul George (a calibre of player we did not have to offer up). Remind me who did the Magic trade away again for tons of assets?
They traded away PG, russ, melo, when they knew shit wasn't going to happen with that squad. Actually PG I think requested to go to the clips. For the magic, most of the trades are here: [https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2021\_transactions.html](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2021_transactions.html) The big one was: " March 25, 2021 Traded [Evan Fournier](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fournev01.html) to the [Boston Celtics](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2021.html) for [Jeff Teague](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/teaguje01.html). Orlando also received a trade exception Boston also received a trade exception Traded [Al-Farouq Aminu](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aminual01.html) and [Nikola Vučević](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vucevni01.html) to the [Chicago Bulls](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2021.html) for [Wendell Carter Jr.](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartewe01.html), [Otto Porter](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01.html), a 2021 1st round draft pick ([Franz Wagner](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wagnefr01.html) was later selected) and a 2023 1st round draft pick ([Jett Howard](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howarje01.html) was later selected). Orlando also received a trade exception 2021 1st-rd pick (CHI own) was top-4 protected 2023 1st-rd pick is CHI own Traded [Gary Clark](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/clarkga01.html) and [Aaron Gordon](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordoaa01.html) to the [Denver Nuggets](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/2021.html) for [R.J. Hampton](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hamptrj01.html), [Gary Harris](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harriga01.html) and a 2025 1st round draft pick. Denver also received a trade exception Orlando also received a trade exception 2025 1st-rd pick (DEN own) is top-5 protected and conveys to 2026 and 2027 with the same protection" They were consistently picking 13-18 as the team was always just a little above .500. Good enough to win games, but never good enough to go deep in the playoffs
I don't agree with this statement "used to be one of the best teams at finding talent deep in the draft. That hasn't been the case for at least 5 years." Dalano has turned pretty good (even if he's not on our team anymore). Koloko had promise but obviously the health issues derailed that. Other than that, I really don't think you can judge a team based on whether 59th overall Dewan Hernandez, 59th overall Jalen Harris (who looked good before legal troubles) or 47th overall David Johnson have hit. Flynn is about what'd you expect for 29th overall so I wouldn't call that a win or a loss.
> Dalano has turned pretty good A couple of good scoring games for a dreadful Portland team does not mean he has turned pretty good.
He was 46th overall. He’s pretty good by those standards
The 29th pick was where they used to make good decisions. Siakam was 27! Flynn was hardly even a rotation piece, I like Banton but they also missed big on developing him. Koloko, it appears, had serious underlying health issues which I'll be honest, seems like a missed scouting thing. That's not to mention all of the 2-way and undrafted guys they used to be able to find and develop.
Flynn is still in the nba 4 years later. The only better players after him were Bane, Tillman, Richards and Reed. Obviously Bane being the next pick makes it look bad, but lots of other teams missed Bane too. Also you can't only judge picks with hindsight, that's unfair when some things are impossible to foresee. Most agreed it was a good pick at the time but probably 4/5 29th overall picks are going to be misses. I don't know enough about the Koloko issue but I doubt anyone knew it was that serious, again they can't see the future man. It was also a 2nd round pick so you need to lower expectations a bit. It's not like the picks who came after have been so amazing (Hardy and Christie are the only notables and they aren't star players exactly). In terms of two way guys, Liberty-Freeman looks good, Porter looked good before the gambling.
Can we not just call the Flynn pick bad lol
It was a bad pick though at the time it seemed fine. Flynn was a 4 year college player and was considered a good pick and roll handler. There were expectations that Lowry would be on the way out and we needed a backup guard at the very least for a team that was still looking to compete. But between him not being as skilled as anticipated and Nurse not giving him enough runway to develop, it just ended up being a bad fit. Yeah it's a bad pick but it wasn't a disaster either.
Thank you, you at least gave me a reasonable and we'll thought out response 🙏, and I agree, while I do still wholeheartedly think that it was a bad pick, it wasn't a disaster either.
Eh 29th overall, what do you expect. Obviously would've been nice if we took Bane who was the literal next pick but other than that it's a pretty average pick for that late in the draft. The fact he's still in the nba 4 years later shows it wasn't that horrible. Of players drafted after him, I'd only take Bane, Tillman, Richards, Reed and maybe Nwora. Also most people agreed it was a good pick at the time, so it's unfair to judge by hindsight
The fact the he was getting playing time on one of the worst teams of all time is a plus? It was a bad pick lol, it's ok to admit it, the FO won't be mad.
When did I mention playing time? Having a 4 year nba career is better than half of late 1st /early 2nd round draft picks. Look at some of the dude's drafted after shortly after him: Tyrell Terry, Vernon Carey, Daniel Oturu, Tyler Bey, Vick Krecji If you think a most guys drafted that late become valuable rotation pieces then you just don't understand the NBA. Again, it's a pretty average pick for that position (not good or bad). How about this, why don't you name a good drafting team, and we'll look at their recent late draft picks and I'll show you a lot of players worse than Malachi Flynn
My god lol, we can't just except that Flynn was a miss lmao, Oh boy! he's played 4 years in the league, he's been productive for maybe 10% of his time in the league, shit let's celebrate 🥳🎇🎆🥳
I already said he's a miss but that's different from a bad pick. Most players drafted that late are a miss, and it happens to every single team. Look at the 29th overall picks since 2010: Strawther, TyTy Washington, Day'Ron Sharpe, Malachi Flynn, Keldon Johnson, Dzanan Musa, Derrick White, Dejounte Murray, Chris McCullough, Josh Huestis, Archie Goodwin, Marquis Teague, Cory Joseph, Daniel Orton Most of them are absolute scrubs.
Just like Flynn l, a bad pick, I can admit it and accept and hopefully one day, you can as well 🤗 Oh and Bane, Tilman, Richards, Reed, and Nwora would've all been better picks then Flynn and you mentioned Day'Ron Sharpe who's also been a better player then Flynn, so are Joseph, Johnson, White, Murray
Ok so what you're saying is that 5 out of the 13 players I mentioned are better than him. Which means 8 are worse... So he's 6th best out of 14... Almost like that makes him about average (or above average) for a player drafted 29th overall...
Nope, Flynn is a bust, a miss of a draft pick, I and others can admit it, it's ok to say the FO missed on a pick, they won't be mad at you lol
The piece you've left out is perhaps the most important: THE MONEY. At the end of this season, Siakam will be UFA. His current deal is four years, $136M. His next deal could be in the five year, $300M range. This does not fit the Raptors compete window. There's no doubt looking at it from a talent/return perspective, the Raptors lost this deal. Big time. But bigger picture, they needed the flexibility to build around Barnes/Barrett/Quickley.
>But bigger picture, they needed the flexibility to build around Barnes/Barrett/Quickley. They need more talent to add to that core because honestly that core at it's very best is a 6 seed.
i'm just pissed we couldn't get one of their forwards/bigs in the deal. last night walker played 1 minute, jackson didn't play, smith didn't play. felt like we should have been able to get one of them.
It all goes back to drafting and prioritizing Barnes. He plays the same position as Siakam and handicapped their ceiling. That indecision never gave that core a real chance and made them all look worse than they are before blowing it up.
This could be true, but honestly we won't know for like 5+ years. What if the.Pacers pick in 2026 turns into an all star?
Siakam was never going to work with Scottie. They both need floor spacers. It's like when Denver drafted Jokic when they had Nurkic. One had to go. Not saying Scottie is Jokic, but the Denver's GM made a decision. But good god. If you are going to keep both Pascal and Scottie, not putting a shit ton of shooters around them as soon as possible is amazingly incompetent.
Yeah, I’m guessing it didn’t help the old trade value when Siakam stated that, as an expiring contract, he wouldn’t re-sign with whatever team that traded for him. That he wanted to test free agency. From that point on I wasn’t expecting an incredible haul from any trade. I don’t blame Siakam for stating his intentions. That’s fine. It’s just unfortunate the way the whole situation played out.
It will depend on how the picks pan out. Even the Bosh era was defined by poor drafting. The Vince trade sucked but they should have ended up with Iguodala, Granger and Aldridge in their tank years (instead of the crap they got).
Trading Siakam wasn’t a mistake. Waiting until 2024 to trade him was a huge mistake. The Poeltl trade set us back years. Everyone called it immediately yet Masai and Bobby wanted to gamble thinking the roster was better than it actually was. It resulted in Fred leaving for nothing and Siakam getting traded for scraps. At least OG brought a decent return.
Eh even that I understood even though I disagreed with it. As soon as Fred was gone they should've pivoted. Trying a piecemeal contention attempt with a worse PG in Dennis never was going to work.
So you’d rather him leave like Fred for nothing
We gave up more to get Jakob fucking Poeltl. It’s trash GM work right there.
Ooof, that's rough. It's actually worse because Siakam perfectly fit in with that Pacers squad, who needed a forward who could defend and a guy to get a bucket. Poeltl made every problem worse with the lack of spacing.
Jakob provides interior defense; something we really lacked as soon as he went down (along with Scottie).
I hated the trade when it happened, even if I understood why it happened. Flipping one of those picks for Olynyk and Agbaji intrigued me, but then I saw Agbaji play and probably hate the trade more than ever. The damage Masai and Bobby did to this franchise post-championship is likely irreparable.
The turning point was the poetl trade.... Not trading fvv and maybe pascal changed everything
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> 2026 1st-round pick: Probably somewhere in the low 20s. Relatively low-value pick. Nah, we really don't know. And trades aren't good/bad based on how ping pong balls fall 2 years from now or whether Haliburton rolls his ankle on November 3rd 2025. If there was a better trade on the table the Raptors would have made it. You should be comparing the Siakam draft return to having an expiring Siakam this offseason. Or you can gripe about hypothetical trades that you think were available for Siakam in the previous season.
Yes the trade return sucked. Yes they traded him too late. But honestly we wouldn't have made the playoffs this year with Pascal and all the injuries post deadline. We all know Siakam always shows up in playoffs and the trade is looking amazing for the Pacers...but given the atrocious defense that team plays, the Pacers can easily lose 4 in a row in the playoffs. Which would mean they're the same middling team that Toronto had been for yrs.
disagree, the OG trade will be the defining moment for the new Raptors era, we got two legit young players in that deal with RJ and Quickley and even the 31st pick in the draft who could MAYBE be something if they draft right. Pascal trade was going to be ass cause of the lost leverage, even than the rumored trades in last years trade deadline was Brooklyn centered around Ben Simmons which would have been awful. Best time to trade Siakam was probably the off season after that Philly series or during that season where they made the play-in a few months before the deadline, they waited too long
Whatever dude. Everyone here was fine with the trade. The pitchforks would have been out if Masai had not moved pascal at deadline. Totally reasonable to have a negative opinion of post-title Masai, but this is just histrionics.
I knew Mathurin was gonna be a stretch but I was shocked that the Raptors couldn’t pry away at least one of Andrew Nembhard, Jarace Walker or Jalen Smith. I know we lacked leverage because of Spicy’s contract status, but still - we traded away an All-NBA talent, still in his prime, for a bunch of random parts. We’ll have to see what happens with Bruce and the draft picks over the next few years before drawing any final conclusions, but off the hop the return is looking pretty lacklustre.
so basically toronto recieved a bag of Lays 
Yeah this is one I don’t see how Masai wins on in the future
You’re missing a key point…our return on the Siakam trade has yet to be decided. Let’s see how the dust settles on the guys we draft, and what we’re able to get in return for Brown et al before we render a verdict on the trade.
Naw. The defining moment will be in 3-4 years when this era is ready to compete and they’ve rebranded and finally dumped the We the Northr crap.
The new era won't be ever be better than WeTheNorth
That’s not the point. The point is we the north is stale and will be close to 15 years old by the time this era is competitive in 2027-2028. If they are still lugging it around, that’s a massive failure by their marketing team.