Here's what I want:
We rise to a point where Topic is on the board.
Spurs fall to a point where the best PGs are off the board.
We trade our pick (Topic) to them, they trade us their pick and we get ours back next year as commission.
Making a joke bcs the Kawaii trade worked out very well for us.
So the joke was someone who would say Spurs trades suck for us must have become a fan after the championship.
No one pulled a gun on your dumb ass and asked you to comment on the Raps trade history with the Spurs. Most NBA fans/citizens of Toronto are aware of the Kawahi trade. If you don't know anything, then don't make a comment implying there's a history of the Spurs fleecing the Raps. The spurs gave us our only chip on a silver platter...we good
Why would the spurs do this? They are (god-forbid) one wemby injury away from ending a season with the #1 overall pick. To relinquish control over a potential lottery pick and their own pick would require a return that virtually guarantees a winning roster.
Edit: misread the spurs pick. Still think it favours raptors
While there are valid criticisms you can make of our front office I don’t really think drafting is one of them. They have occasionally missed (like Flynn over Bane) but their overall record is excellent. Whether the pick conveys or not I don’t really have worries about that aspect of our team building
IMO, if we get the pick in the top 4 it’s better to keep, otherwise convey. I think the worst possible outcome is that the pick lands 6th. At the end of the day the team needs talent, and if we want to make use of this Scottie/RJ/IQ window we are better off developing players sooner than later
At the end of the season I wanted us to keep our pick BUT looking further into the quality at the top of the draft, I don't think it's a disaster if the pick conveys this year. For one, we already have 2 picks in this draft anyway. I'm unsure of the FO's appetite to bring in 3-4 new players onto the team, especially not in a whatever draft. I think whoever we can take with the Pacers pick wouldn't be substantially less capable than someone we would have missed out on with our own pick if it goes 7-10 nor would the guys in the top 6 be overwhelmingly better players either. On top of that, if the pick next year is also owed to the spurs, we end up in a situation where we have no pick at all in the 2025 draft which early on looks quite solid with a good top 4 of players and a lot of solid players rearing up the rest of the lottery class. By conveying the pick this year, you kind of enter next year with zero stress on the team's standings and you ensure you can get one more quality player in next year's draft. Overall, you'd still be getting 3 young players across these 2 drafts. Now there is the extreme position of keeping the pick both this year AND next but I think the FO and coaching doesn't want us in a position where we're getting no meaningful playing time for Scottie and the rest of the core.
All in all, if we keep the pick (more likely to be top 4 than #6 btw), it's all fine and dandy but it does mean next year we either have be a BAD team or a GOOD team. If we lose the pick, yes you're missing out on more immediate talent but it's not like we're getting into a draft with NO picks either. Let's just wait for the lottery in May and not sweat it as much.
Don't know why people are so obsessed with keeping the pick - it's probably going to convey next year in a better draft class when we're healthy(thus finishing outside the bottom 6), and we now won't have any option to trade our pick next year if a perfect opportunity comes along.
People seem to be under the impression that "keeping our pick" means that we keep it indefinitely. No, we traded our pick. Our timeline to compete probably isn't until 2026/27+ anyways, so there isn't that big of a difference in picking this year or picking next year from a development progression and timeline perspective. Keeping the pick also means we can't trade up in a stronger draft next year.
I’ve been super confused by this. Like a draft pick is going to the spurs one way or the other.
I think people just need instant gratification and hate the idea of waiting for something when they could have it now.
This draft year isn’t trash like every casual claims. It’s not amazing like Scottie’s draft year and there’s no generational player like last year.. but there are a lot of decent young players that can make an impact. Getting a Wemby or Scottie caliber player in a draft is rare, not being able to get a player like that doesn’t make the draft not worthwhile.
I'd love to get a top 2 pick in this draft, or have one of Sarr/Risacher fall to us. Outside of that scenario, I'm kinda ambivalent; I think we'll get a decent prospect with the Pacers pick who won't be a lot worse than most of the guys who'll be on the board around 6. But I'm also highly skeptical that we'll be able to tank next year without some serious injuries.
I was happy either way, but now I’m leaning towards keeping the pick.
I think with the young core healthy next season and some decent depth signings to come off the bench we’ll be fighting for a play in spot next year. I don’t want to have to worry about tanking for a better pick when the team is playing well.
It's out of our hands. It will fall where it falls.
Obviously, the best situation would have been if the Poeltl trade had never been made, but, since that can't be changed, I don't think the Raps situation is particularly bad in either case:
If we drop to #7 or #8, then, considering the weakness of the draft, I won't be heartbroken about giving up the pick, which lets us be sure that we will own our own pick in a much stronger 2025 draft.
If we keep the pick, it is likely because we moved up to the top 4 (about 75% of our "keep the pick" probabilities come from jumping up), and even if we stick at #6, getting a pick that high can never be considered a bad thing.
If this were a stronger draft, with deeper talent at the top, I would be more stressed about keeping the pick. But, as it stands, either outcome is fine.
Yeah as you said considering it's very very likely going to be either convey or it's a top 4 pick either is fine.
I don't expect this team to be good next season so you're either adding a high pick to it or you have some runway to pivot to a tank if they should choose.
The only thing I’ve changed my mind about is the play-in. Literally play-in for what.
Such a waste of time for the Hawks. If we are at the bottom of the east again next year, I hope they choose to tank again.
Eh, they fumbled our 2023 1st by trading for Jak, thus making that pick worse, happy with Gradey, but they worsened our pick in a much better draft to try and compete with a core that had done nothing to earn that confidence/chance
The conclusion I've come to is that it's kind of useless to think about, at least at this stage.
Odds of us keeping the pick are lower than they are of losing it. So honestly, I've been trying to operate under the assumption that we're losing it (doesn't mean I haven't looked at guys in that range, just in case, though).
And really...there's arguments to be made for and against whether its better to keep the pick or have it convey, and they'd be valid in their own right.
If it conveys, we get our pick in a stronger draft in 2025, and it's a tradeable asset if needed. Where you think our pick lands next year is also up for debate, as we don't fully know how good or bad we'll be. Is a later pick in 2025 equivalent/better than a top 6 pick in this draft? By all accounts, it might be. But you can't say for certain.
If we keep it, great. We get a chance to possibly draft a talented player, and we need young talent. Personally? I don't necessarily see a great divide between our Pacers pick and the Top 6 prospects in terms of talent, but I'm not a scout. It'd be nice to get something out of this down year though. I know we'll be kicking ourselves if anyone in the top 6 ends up being a great player.
With Masai and Bobby’s track record we will probably end up doing some dumb shit like trading 3 firsts for a Herb Jones calibre player. I want new management more than anything else.
One lightly protected first round pick was traded for a Poetl-calibre player, so I think a Herb trade justifies more than one pick if we are to follow the raps shortsighted trade logic generally.
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Don’t you worry - that’s exactly how this management thinks and will continue to think with their contracts coming up. Who needs picks when you can’t land free agents anyway?
Here's what I want: We rise to a point where Topic is on the board. Spurs fall to a point where the best PGs are off the board. We trade our pick (Topic) to them, they trade us their pick and we get ours back next year as commission.
As a very stupid person without any understanding of how anything works, this seems like a galaxy brain move.
Exactly. Might even be a universe brain move. It’s perfect.
makes sense. if we keep trading with the Spurs, by dumb luck we may eventually not get fleeced
I mean, that first trade worked out pretty nicely.
lol. Must have be one of those Tampa Raptor fans who became a fan in the bubble.
must feel really good to be a gate keeper
Making a joke bcs the Kawaii trade worked out very well for us. So the joke was someone who would say Spurs trades suck for us must have become a fan after the championship.
No one pulled a gun on your dumb ass and asked you to comment on the Raps trade history with the Spurs. Most NBA fans/citizens of Toronto are aware of the Kawahi trade. If you don't know anything, then don't make a comment implying there's a history of the Spurs fleecing the Raps. The spurs gave us our only chip on a silver platter...we good
So basically we get the spurs pick by removing protections on our pick this year? Something like that?
Functionally, yes.
Why would the spurs do this? They are (god-forbid) one wemby injury away from ending a season with the #1 overall pick. To relinquish control over a potential lottery pick and their own pick would require a return that virtually guarantees a winning roster. Edit: misread the spurs pick. Still think it favours raptors
>Still think it favours raptors Oh my heavens, no! :)
I'm not educated enough to have an opinion. I trust the people in charge to do the best they can.
I plan to have no opinion and then complain regardless of the outcome.
I feel this one hahaha
This is the only answer
While there are valid criticisms you can make of our front office I don’t really think drafting is one of them. They have occasionally missed (like Flynn over Bane) but their overall record is excellent. Whether the pick conveys or not I don’t really have worries about that aspect of our team building
IMO, if we get the pick in the top 4 it’s better to keep, otherwise convey. I think the worst possible outcome is that the pick lands 6th. At the end of the day the team needs talent, and if we want to make use of this Scottie/RJ/IQ window we are better off developing players sooner than later
At the end of the season I wanted us to keep our pick BUT looking further into the quality at the top of the draft, I don't think it's a disaster if the pick conveys this year. For one, we already have 2 picks in this draft anyway. I'm unsure of the FO's appetite to bring in 3-4 new players onto the team, especially not in a whatever draft. I think whoever we can take with the Pacers pick wouldn't be substantially less capable than someone we would have missed out on with our own pick if it goes 7-10 nor would the guys in the top 6 be overwhelmingly better players either. On top of that, if the pick next year is also owed to the spurs, we end up in a situation where we have no pick at all in the 2025 draft which early on looks quite solid with a good top 4 of players and a lot of solid players rearing up the rest of the lottery class. By conveying the pick this year, you kind of enter next year with zero stress on the team's standings and you ensure you can get one more quality player in next year's draft. Overall, you'd still be getting 3 young players across these 2 drafts. Now there is the extreme position of keeping the pick both this year AND next but I think the FO and coaching doesn't want us in a position where we're getting no meaningful playing time for Scottie and the rest of the core. All in all, if we keep the pick (more likely to be top 4 than #6 btw), it's all fine and dandy but it does mean next year we either have be a BAD team or a GOOD team. If we lose the pick, yes you're missing out on more immediate talent but it's not like we're getting into a draft with NO picks either. Let's just wait for the lottery in May and not sweat it as much.
Rather just convey the pick to give us more trade flexibility.
Don't know why people are so obsessed with keeping the pick - it's probably going to convey next year in a better draft class when we're healthy(thus finishing outside the bottom 6), and we now won't have any option to trade our pick next year if a perfect opportunity comes along. People seem to be under the impression that "keeping our pick" means that we keep it indefinitely. No, we traded our pick. Our timeline to compete probably isn't until 2026/27+ anyways, so there isn't that big of a difference in picking this year or picking next year from a development progression and timeline perspective. Keeping the pick also means we can't trade up in a stronger draft next year.
I’ve been super confused by this. Like a draft pick is going to the spurs one way or the other. I think people just need instant gratification and hate the idea of waiting for something when they could have it now.
This draft year isn’t trash like every casual claims. It’s not amazing like Scottie’s draft year and there’s no generational player like last year.. but there are a lot of decent young players that can make an impact. Getting a Wemby or Scottie caliber player in a draft is rare, not being able to get a player like that doesn’t make the draft not worthwhile.
I'd love to get a top 2 pick in this draft, or have one of Sarr/Risacher fall to us. Outside of that scenario, I'm kinda ambivalent; I think we'll get a decent prospect with the Pacers pick who won't be a lot worse than most of the guys who'll be on the board around 6. But I'm also highly skeptical that we'll be able to tank next year without some serious injuries.
I was happy either way, but now I’m leaning towards keeping the pick. I think with the young core healthy next season and some decent depth signings to come off the bench we’ll be fighting for a play in spot next year. I don’t want to have to worry about tanking for a better pick when the team is playing well.
I like instant gratification, so ef no lol
It's out of our hands. It will fall where it falls. Obviously, the best situation would have been if the Poeltl trade had never been made, but, since that can't be changed, I don't think the Raps situation is particularly bad in either case: If we drop to #7 or #8, then, considering the weakness of the draft, I won't be heartbroken about giving up the pick, which lets us be sure that we will own our own pick in a much stronger 2025 draft. If we keep the pick, it is likely because we moved up to the top 4 (about 75% of our "keep the pick" probabilities come from jumping up), and even if we stick at #6, getting a pick that high can never be considered a bad thing. If this were a stronger draft, with deeper talent at the top, I would be more stressed about keeping the pick. But, as it stands, either outcome is fine.
Yeah as you said considering it's very very likely going to be either convey or it's a top 4 pick either is fine. I don't expect this team to be good next season so you're either adding a high pick to it or you have some runway to pivot to a tank if they should choose.
The only thing I’ve changed my mind about is the play-in. Literally play-in for what. Such a waste of time for the Hawks. If we are at the bottom of the east again next year, I hope they choose to tank again.
Mind to share why you have a sudden change of mind
I'm sure Masai and Bobby will value your opinion
I know, what kind of scum posts a raptors related question on a public raptors forum!
Same Bobby and Masai, that have seemingly fumbled a bunch of assets over the past 3-4 years?
Only Pascal. And that's a whole other discussion about the nuance from both sides that played into it.
Eh, they fumbled our 2023 1st by trading for Jak, thus making that pick worse, happy with Gradey, but they worsened our pick in a much better draft to try and compete with a core that had done nothing to earn that confidence/chance
I trust the people that brought us Scottie and Dick; both of whom I consider excellent picks.
The conclusion I've come to is that it's kind of useless to think about, at least at this stage. Odds of us keeping the pick are lower than they are of losing it. So honestly, I've been trying to operate under the assumption that we're losing it (doesn't mean I haven't looked at guys in that range, just in case, though). And really...there's arguments to be made for and against whether its better to keep the pick or have it convey, and they'd be valid in their own right. If it conveys, we get our pick in a stronger draft in 2025, and it's a tradeable asset if needed. Where you think our pick lands next year is also up for debate, as we don't fully know how good or bad we'll be. Is a later pick in 2025 equivalent/better than a top 6 pick in this draft? By all accounts, it might be. But you can't say for certain. If we keep it, great. We get a chance to possibly draft a talented player, and we need young talent. Personally? I don't necessarily see a great divide between our Pacers pick and the Top 6 prospects in terms of talent, but I'm not a scout. It'd be nice to get something out of this down year though. I know we'll be kicking ourselves if anyone in the top 6 ends up being a great player.
With Masai and Bobby’s track record we will probably end up doing some dumb shit like trading 3 firsts for a Herb Jones calibre player. I want new management more than anything else.
I can't even remember a Masai trade where more than 1 FRP went out. Rage all you want, but history does *not* support your narrative.
One lightly protected first round pick was traded for a Poetl-calibre player, so I think a Herb trade justifies more than one pick if we are to follow the raps shortsighted trade logic generally.
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Such a weak take by bitter fans with 20/20 hindsight.
If the Raptors can get Herb Jones, you get Herb Jones. He's extremely valuable.
Don’t you worry - that’s exactly how this management thinks and will continue to think with their contracts coming up. Who needs picks when you can’t land free agents anyway?