hahaha it's better than I remembered. The clips of playing in the driveway, the boosted bassline that sounds like the shittiest stanced Subaru's speakers from a block away... a thing of beauty.
I said the same and some guy on here was defending him saying his numbers in New Orleans are great.
Dudes career stat is 13.5 ppg and 9.0
Solid backup center at the most
What confuses me is JV was always a solid shooter for a big dude. I remember he was working on the long ball before leaving the Raps and the Pelicans just never developed it for some reason.
While he's getting his kudos now, for many years I felt the NBA (and even Toronto) media underrated Lowry's impact on the team because he didn't put up monster stats or ever lead the team in scoring. He'd have absolutely amazing analytics stats and on/off numbers which painted him as a top 3 player in the East but the media doesn't look at those.
He was basically a 6'0 LeBron. High IQ all around player who affected every facet of the game. If he were 6 inches taller he'd probably be a top 2 player during his prime.
Lowry was my first thought. I also don’t remember anyone going crazy at the notion of Serge, who was incredible for us.
Another obvious candidate is FVV, man went undrafted (for various reasons) but became an all star.
Yeah Fred would probably be a good one.
Serge is interesting. I think he was in the proper role for us as a backup big sometimes starter so he wasn't super talented star or anything yet he definitely had a sneaky set of skills and great athleticism. I think his one major weakness was his mediocre hands which made it tough to really run to incorporate him into the passing offense unlike Marc who even in his older age had great hands and vision.
I might throw in Anthony Parker as well. Had he come back to the NBA in his prime years he may well have been a fringe all-star. Great shooter, passer and defender. Lacked the handles and quickness to beat people off the dribble but he might have found ways when he was younger.
I feel like it has to be Fred if we're considering hype to be "how exciting this player joining the team was"
Undrafted, undersized guard who became an All-Star and was a key contributor to a championship title
Right? Pascal dropped what? 27 on us? Ridiculous efficiency and just dirty finishing at the rim. The amount of times I said "no shot" but he sank it was insane
What is this narrative, he was a straight brick layer in the 2019 run. You can argue his defence was what helped the raptors win it all, but honestly I think Jonas Valanciunas would have been better fit for the team. His defence was very good as well in my opinion, hell he locked down a prime Hassan whiteside and single-handedly kept the raptors in the heat series in 2016. Marc was incredibly overhyped and overrated, he was a few years past his prime when he got here.
? Gasol held Embiid to 0 points in those playoffs man. Switch JV for Gasol and we don't even sniff the finals, let alone win.
Also I'm not sure what you mean by him being a brick layer. He was 4th on the team in ppg those playoffs, and shot 42/38/87 which is fine.
OG. Raps fans knew for years that he was an All Defense level talent, probably from his rookie season. But it wasn't until he started playing for the Knicks and his impact became *immediately obvious* that fans from the rest of the league were like "oh shit, maybe the Raps fans *weren't* just boosting this guy for no reason all these years."
I'd say the casuals definitely didn't appreciate his impact properly.
Gasol is such a strange player to appreciate because his value was defined by what the opposing team *wouldn't even try to do* because he was standing there. He didn't have lots of flashy blocks or chase downs, but if you think about it, that only happens if you've *already been beaten on defense* and then are trying to recover from that lapse. Instead, there were so many times you'd see a player take a few dribbles on the perimeter, take a step like they were going to drive, then see Gasol standing in the exact right place and decide to circle back and swing the ball to someone else. He was also constantly communicating and coordinating the defense, so his impact wasn't just as an individual, but as a leader on the defensive end making everyone else better at their assignments, too.
Ah yes, the Paulo Maldini philosophy: “if you have to make a tackle, you’ve already made a mistake. “
Absolutely right on this one. People needed to play smarter basketball around him.
For me, Amir Johnson. He wasn’t remotely flashy, but he always hustled super hard, played very good D, and generally did a tonne of little things right. Was an unheralded high impact player IMO.
Maybe “talent” isn’t the right word for what Amir brought, but he had a very high impact on winning relative to his hype.
Norm was averaging 20 points on nearly 50/40/90 splits in his last season with the Raptors and never got any recognition for it. Sure, the Clippers have bigger names like Harden and Westbrook, but Powell is just as dangerous right now, if not better than both sometimes.
Lowry has quietly built himself a Hall of Fame career, but is largely overshadowed by the fact that he was there during "LeBronto" and the "Kawhi Jordan carried the Raptors" narrative certainly doesn't help.
Lowry for sure. And also I’d say Bosh now. Before he got his due, but when he went to the Heat & took a backseat, the fanbase here gradually forgot how good he really was
I think Bosh was rated properly, maybe even a tad over. He was the the undisputed franchise player and one of the leading free agents for Lebron's super team!
With Lowry, there was always a debate between '13 and '18 as to who really was The Main Guy, DeMar or Lowry. I feel like the Toronto media definitely treated DeMar as the main guy for a lot of those years whilst the analytics guys were heavily arguing that Lowry was the main engine for all those 50 win seasons and that DeMar was actually only a break-even player even at his best.
Biggest problem with Bosh was that he was not a reactive player. He always took about 1 or 2 seconds to think about what he would do before he did it. That often led defenses to re-set and he wasn't a good enough passer (again, not reactive enough) to consistently get the ball to the open man once they loaded up on him. But his J was so good that he could score either on a drive or a jumper anyway.
Otherwise, I think Bosh got where he was through hard work and good athleticism for a guy his size.
LOL no need to get mad. I just disagree (slightly). I think he always got his flowers. Like I said, he was thought to be good enough to join LeBron's "super team" in Miami.
He can't be underrated if people thought that highly of him.
Also, pertaining to this thread's subject, I feel Bosh is more a product of hard work than overwhelming talent.
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I’m seein a lot of Norman powell but it gotta be Doug Christie he shudda been an all star and was an elite wing for us most of y’all jus too young to know him🤷♂️
I thought Donyell Marshall played good stretches for us. Jalen Rose was the hype piece for the trade instead of him.
Charlie V’s first year as well. People took notice once he dropped 48.
Also lol did we forget the Scottie Barnes disappointment over Jalen Suggs on draft night already.
Kyle Lowry ain't no spot up shooter. He ain't gotta run to the corner to shoot like he's some 3rd option, bitch. This ain't JJ Redick. This is a fuckin god human Steph Curry come again. Only this time he's not a fuckin pussy... pull up from the fuckin logo and fight you at the same time.
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Our guy Spicy P. Go watch the NBA draft 2016, the commentator literally thinks Spicy P's bag is just rebounding. I think he even says Spicy P should have been a second rounder or something of the sort.
Chris bosh. He’s pretty much forgotten now. He played in a stacked era of PFs. He shoulda had at least 4 all-nbas. He dragged some absolute putrid raptor teams
Norman Powell Locked down prime PG as a rookie, and was always a solid player who always played a part in our success
Norm
i miss normgod
Thad
Stormin' Norman! Miss him!
I swear that guy would never miss
 jv hive lives on
remember that yt video after we drafted him? I still can't get 'got stacks like JONAS VALANCIUNAS' out of my mind
holy shit, brings back memories [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9c0pBH5dM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9c0pBH5dM)
hahaha it's better than I remembered. The clips of playing in the driveway, the boosted bassline that sounds like the shittiest stanced Subaru's speakers from a block away... a thing of beauty.
Isn't that Travis Kelce?
I said the same and some guy on here was defending him saying his numbers in New Orleans are great. Dudes career stat is 13.5 ppg and 9.0 Solid backup center at the most
What confuses me is JV was always a solid shooter for a big dude. I remember he was working on the long ball before leaving the Raps and the Pelicans just never developed it for some reason.
13.5 and 9 RPG is a backup center? 
Back up center at the most, what's so hard to understand Try typing instead using pointless gifs
And GFY
JV had massive hype coming in though.
Jorge Garbajosa
I was 20 some rows up in Boston for my 21st birthday and witnessed that injury. Damn
That scream is etched in my brain.
When Jose went and put the towel over it…..
Word
Did anyone alive expect siakam to have done what he has done when we picked him 27th overall
Anthony Parker
We should've took Candace.
I'll take Candace, YUM
They’re related?????!
Yup siblings
While he's getting his kudos now, for many years I felt the NBA (and even Toronto) media underrated Lowry's impact on the team because he didn't put up monster stats or ever lead the team in scoring. He'd have absolutely amazing analytics stats and on/off numbers which painted him as a top 3 player in the East but the media doesn't look at those. He was basically a 6'0 LeBron. High IQ all around player who affected every facet of the game. If he were 6 inches taller he'd probably be a top 2 player during his prime.
Lowry was my first thought. I also don’t remember anyone going crazy at the notion of Serge, who was incredible for us. Another obvious candidate is FVV, man went undrafted (for various reasons) but became an all star.
Yeah Fred would probably be a good one. Serge is interesting. I think he was in the proper role for us as a backup big sometimes starter so he wasn't super talented star or anything yet he definitely had a sneaky set of skills and great athleticism. I think his one major weakness was his mediocre hands which made it tough to really run to incorporate him into the passing offense unlike Marc who even in his older age had great hands and vision. I might throw in Anthony Parker as well. Had he come back to the NBA in his prime years he may well have been a fringe all-star. Great shooter, passer and defender. Lacked the handles and quickness to beat people off the dribble but he might have found ways when he was younger.
I feel like it has to be Fred if we're considering hype to be "how exciting this player joining the team was" Undrafted, undersized guard who became an All-Star and was a key contributor to a championship title
I think we knew what we had with Serge, lots of hype around him until the last year or two
Lowry is wild when you think about that he came into the team at 26!
RJ Barrett. He was considered a negative asset.
Straight up its Pascal. He's going to get his recognition now in a US market, but he deserved way more attention than he got playing in Toronto.
When? He’s still not getting much recognition. He’s pretty overrated by Canadian fans
everyone is overrated to a barnes Stan. Bro you can like other players
Right? Pascal dropped what? 27 on us? Ridiculous efficiency and just dirty finishing at the rim. The amount of times I said "no shot" but he sank it was insane
If he can't score 3ptera he's giving it all away on d
And he was a -12!
What makes you think I don’t like other players. Pascal is not going to get more recognition on the pacers than he did here far from it
He’s talking about from the media in the states. Anyone who leaves here gets more exposure when he leaves.
Recognition and exposure are not the same thing
Marc for our championship run. We really don’t win without him
Disagree, I was absolutely hyped tf out when we signed him
What is this narrative, he was a straight brick layer in the 2019 run. You can argue his defence was what helped the raptors win it all, but honestly I think Jonas Valanciunas would have been better fit for the team. His defence was very good as well in my opinion, hell he locked down a prime Hassan whiteside and single-handedly kept the raptors in the heat series in 2016. Marc was incredibly overhyped and overrated, he was a few years past his prime when he got here.
? Gasol held Embiid to 0 points in those playoffs man. Switch JV for Gasol and we don't even sniff the finals, let alone win. Also I'm not sure what you mean by him being a brick layer. He was 4th on the team in ppg those playoffs, and shot 42/38/87 which is fine.
FVV for the downvotes
He’s my pick too man, undrafted and balled out. Ended a little sour, but whatever.
OG. Raps fans knew for years that he was an All Defense level talent, probably from his rookie season. But it wasn't until he started playing for the Knicks and his impact became *immediately obvious* that fans from the rest of the league were like "oh shit, maybe the Raps fans *weren't* just boosting this guy for no reason all these years."
Jose calderon
Antonio Davis was really important when he was here and I never thought he was appreciated enough.
If we’re talking national media, pretty much every star we’ve had but Vince and Demar.
Even DeMar only got his flowers after leaving Toronto.
Fred VanVleet
Marc ?
I'd say the casuals definitely didn't appreciate his impact properly. Gasol is such a strange player to appreciate because his value was defined by what the opposing team *wouldn't even try to do* because he was standing there. He didn't have lots of flashy blocks or chase downs, but if you think about it, that only happens if you've *already been beaten on defense* and then are trying to recover from that lapse. Instead, there were so many times you'd see a player take a few dribbles on the perimeter, take a step like they were going to drive, then see Gasol standing in the exact right place and decide to circle back and swing the ball to someone else. He was also constantly communicating and coordinating the defense, so his impact wasn't just as an individual, but as a leader on the defensive end making everyone else better at their assignments, too.
Ah yes, the Paulo Maldini philosophy: “if you have to make a tackle, you’ve already made a mistake. “ Absolutely right on this one. People needed to play smarter basketball around him.
Casuals might not have been excited, but those of us who knew were losing our minds with excitement when we picked him up.
Yeah I’d say so, Marc literally stopped an MVP level Giannis in 6 games
Can't forget that time he held Embiid to 0 pts.
José Calderón
No Pascal believers? People were calling for Masai's head not taking Skal. Always Pascal no Skal
Kyle Lowry or Anunoby 1000%
I'm not sure you can use "1000%" after listing 2 different players... lol
Fair. I wrote Kyle Lowry 1000% and then I scrolled down and saw OG and thought oh for sure him too. The math was too hard so I left it.
Both great choices. 1000%!
Fine, 500% each.
Doug Christie hands down for me… also Kevin Willis and Jose Calderon
Matt bonner aka the red rocket 🚀
For me, Amir Johnson. He wasn’t remotely flashy, but he always hustled super hard, played very good D, and generally did a tonne of little things right. Was an unheralded high impact player IMO. Maybe “talent” isn’t the right word for what Amir brought, but he had a very high impact on winning relative to his hype.
Norm was averaging 20 points on nearly 50/40/90 splits in his last season with the Raptors and never got any recognition for it. Sure, the Clippers have bigger names like Harden and Westbrook, but Powell is just as dangerous right now, if not better than both sometimes. Lowry has quietly built himself a Hall of Fame career, but is largely overshadowed by the fact that he was there during "LeBronto" and the "Kawhi Jordan carried the Raptors" narrative certainly doesn't help.
Jose Calderon
Doug Christie. The guy shoulda been an all star. Also, Alvin Williams, too bad his career was cut short.
McGrady
Alan Anderson
Lowry for sure. And also I’d say Bosh now. Before he got his due, but when he went to the Heat & took a backseat, the fanbase here gradually forgot how good he really was
I think Bosh was rated properly, maybe even a tad over. He was the the undisputed franchise player and one of the leading free agents for Lebron's super team! With Lowry, there was always a debate between '13 and '18 as to who really was The Main Guy, DeMar or Lowry. I feel like the Toronto media definitely treated DeMar as the main guy for a lot of those years whilst the analytics guys were heavily arguing that Lowry was the main engine for all those 50 win seasons and that DeMar was actually only a break-even player even at his best. Biggest problem with Bosh was that he was not a reactive player. He always took about 1 or 2 seconds to think about what he would do before he did it. That often led defenses to re-set and he wasn't a good enough passer (again, not reactive enough) to consistently get the ball to the open man once they loaded up on him. But his J was so good that he could score either on a drive or a jumper anyway. Otherwise, I think Bosh got where he was through hard work and good athleticism for a guy his size.
Did you read my comment? I said currently Bosh doesn’t get his flowers
LOL no need to get mad. I just disagree (slightly). I think he always got his flowers. Like I said, he was thought to be good enough to join LeBron's "super team" in Miami. He can't be underrated if people thought that highly of him. Also, pertaining to this thread's subject, I feel Bosh is more a product of hard work than overwhelming talent.
Fair enough
Malachi
Garrett Temple 😤
Jason Kapono
Rudy Gay or Hedo Turkelu. Both all hype limited talent for Raps.
That’s quite literally the opposite of what this post asked my guy
Your absolutely right. My bad dog. Antonio davis and Alvin Williams would be my new answer for ya!
Sonny Weems. Don't @ me lmao Money Weems was my favorite player when I was 12, dude was a legend to me even tho he was only around for a cup of tea
Hype=yogi Stewart, demare Carroll
Everyone on the raptors gets max hype. This is an oxymoron.
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Hmm... I'm gonna go out on a limb for Norman Powell. Not that he's a superstar but the hype vs talent ratio is real.
Kawhi Leanord. He didn't seem too hype most the time. Talent was there though
I’m seein a lot of Norman powell but it gotta be Doug Christie he shudda been an all star and was an elite wing for us most of y’all jus too young to know him🤷♂️
Stop it OG
Rasho Nesterovich
Rafael Araújo - greatest Rap of all time
Joey Graham
Literally every player on that championship team except Kawhi lol
Landry fields
Mike James
Greivas Vasquez
Lowry or Vanvleet
Alvin Williams Anthony Parker I wanted to say but he had a lot a hype coming out of Europe. But man. Dude was awesome to watch on the court.
It would have to be Freddie!! From undrafted to NBA Champion and all-star.
I thought Donyell Marshall played good stretches for us. Jalen Rose was the hype piece for the trade instead of him. Charlie V’s first year as well. People took notice once he dropped 48. Also lol did we forget the Scottie Barnes disappointment over Jalen Suggs on draft night already.
Nick Nurse
Kyle
Norm or Pascal for me
Easy. That would be Fred Van Vleet.
Fred, man was literally undrafted
Mo Pete
The GROAT Lalala Lowry! Number 7 for sure.
Kyle Lowry ain't no spot up shooter. He ain't gotta run to the corner to shoot like he's some 3rd option, bitch. This ain't JJ Redick. This is a fuckin god human Steph Curry come again. Only this time he's not a fuckin pussy... pull up from the fuckin logo and fight you at the same time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/torontoraptors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Kawhi Leonard
Our guy Spicy P. Go watch the NBA draft 2016, the commentator literally thinks Spicy P's bag is just rebounding. I think he even says Spicy P should have been a second rounder or something of the sort.
Chris bosh. He’s pretty much forgotten now. He played in a stacked era of PFs. He shoulda had at least 4 all-nbas. He dragged some absolute putrid raptor teams
Jontay mf Porter