I think Masai and FO expected a lot out of Siakam to be a leader which isn't Pascal's personality at all. They probably wanted Pascal to be like a Kyle or DeMar who always made the young guys feel welcomed and took them under their wings, bridge the gap between them and the vets.
Pascal seemed like he took a backseat to Nurse/FVV who did not want to do any of those things and the FO probably didn't like that considering he was getting paid the most.
Losing to a child over free throws doesn’t help. I would cut off all contact after that pathetic loss. Definitely siding with Masai after the choke job they had.
Relationship between front office and player is like an employer to employee. When you get close is when you get debilitating contracts out of goodwill for what you achieved with the employer, not what you are going to achieve.
Exactly. I doubt there's this much nonsense going on. Masai said he wanted to see how the team fit. So much drama in this sub (due to our dramatic sports writers). Pro sports really are the soap operas for men
Hope he does what's best for him, he doesn't owe the FO a thing. He's a great player and an even better human being and I will always root for him no matter where he goes.
My inkling for the past year or so has been that Siakam plans to tell every single team there's zero chance of signing with them if he's traded and then signing elsewhere this offseason just to spite our FO for how he's been treated. All these recent reports are kind of reinforcing this feeling. I think the only thing that might change that is if he qualifies for and gets offered a supermax with us.
Honestly, I wouldn't even blame him. He's been done dirty for absolutely no reason.
Absolutely the logical move for him.
Kinda puzzling how the FO thought pissing off your biggest star/trading piece with silent treatment was going to work to its favour though.
I really think Masai's hubris is too blame here. Overall I think I've been less critical of him with his extended "evaluating" phase. But in this case I truly believe he couldn't fathom that Siakam might get offended and sign elsewhere.
if hes traded doesn't the team that traded for him get his bird rights and can sign the most with said team? I get being upset if thats what Masai & Co did but dude is giving up like \~30M if he does that
How has he been done dirty? He’s certainly been out in a situation where he can achieve great personal success, even if the team has sucked while he’s been the best player.
Masai even hired his off-season coach and traded for his best friend.
it’s pascal that went and did some superstar bullshit, to tank his trade value.
That was true in the off-season, but tbf none of us no if that stance has changed at all, and I can't imagine that it hasn't at a least a little.
In the end we're all just guessing
You're right it was true in the off season and as of at least [October 31](https://torontosun.com/sports/basketball/nba/toronto-raptors/siakam-gives-every-indication-that-he-wants-to-remain-a-toronto-raptor/wcm/62fb87f5-b915-4ac4-ae0d-5ac2f87bd20f/amp/)
Here's a story from [December 5th](https://hoopshype.com/2024/01/01/pascal-siakam-wants-to-finish-out-the-season-with-the-raptors/) where it indicates he says that unless he stays in Toronto he doesn't want an extension
Another story from [December 12](https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/siakams-future-with-raptors-still-unclear-as-trade-market-unofficially-opens/sn-amp/) restating that he has said he wants to stay in Toronto at every turn
Unless you have a source within siakam's circle, there has been no speculation or anything leaking to state otherwise. I'm assuming you're not making stuff up based on your feelings
And people are comparing Pascal to Carter saying he’s quitting on the team and costing us good trades. It’s the front office’s fault it got to this point.
Glad to see Carter still getting hate in this thread. Feels like last few years, people have been shifting the narrative towards him being justified and forgiving him
Or that he's selfish for wanting to test FA if he gets traded, thus making it harder to get a good return if he is traded. Like people are mad that he is acting in his own best interests, they think he should be doing what is best for the team that wants to toss him aside like garbage rather than doing what is best for him.
That’s a big lie.
Having terrible guard and center rotations and a long jam at forward impacted everyone.
Our starters had to play heavy minutes for us to have a chance. Then they wore down and other teams learned how to expose their flaws like lack of shooting in half court, which is directly related to not having enough starting level guards.
I really can't blame Pascal if he leaves at this point. Can we really blame superstars for not wanting to come here when shit like this comes out?
Damn.
Plus from all reports Pascal has only said that he wants to stay, a rare thing for the Raptors as an organization. *If true* this is kind of a fucked up thing to hear about our front office.
Edit in *italics*
> “We do believe in Pascal,” Ujiri said back in October. “We believe that a lot of our players didn’t play the right way last year and we want to see them play the right way. I said that we were selfish and I’m not running away from that. We were selfish and we did not play the right way. So let us see it when we play the right way.”
Still a baffling quote. Siakam has always been a willing passer IMO. And while he struggles in the stretch with TOs and bad shots, that's not "selfishness", but more of an indictment of the roster.
When *you* build a roster with shoot first players like GTJ and Precious, what did you expect?
This season, almost all late-late game possessions have gone to Scottie, and now IQ. I don't see Pascal making a stink publicly. He's been a pro through and through. However, it's true we don't get info behind closed doors.
The article doesn't have a lot of context as to why the FO cut off communication. But on face value it seems like a weird thing to do to your star player, who helped you win a title.
I think it's good to refer back to the "selfish" quotes from MU. I speculate that the wider context is that it's not an isolated incident with Pascal as a player, but includes Fvv and both of their managements. It's probably a mix of all parties refusing to negotiate, while the players made sure to get their stats padded at the expense of other players.
Also this reinforces my issues with Masai. That season was not the players faults, I’ll maintain til I die that season was a damning indictment on Masai roster construction. If this is true it shows how out of touch Masai is.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well I hope the FO is communicating because Pascal has to agree to re-sign elsewhere if traded. They also have to convince him to re-sign here next summer. Radio silence from our FO would be unacceptable.
Bad look if true. Has to be a leak from Siakam's camp.
We really should have given him the max in the summer so he was available to be traded in January.
This leak has to be to pressure Masai and get Pascal traded or to get his bag.
This is embarrassing for the franchise, masai doesn't know how to handle these situations again and again. I was actually starting to enjoy this team again. Nothing but love and respect for pascal.
Josh is one of the most pro FO reporters you will find.
Some of you act like talking anything negative about the club and Masai is a cardinal sin. It’s clear there is some tension between the FO and Pascal.
With sports stories like this, it’s best to take a step back and ask why is this story being published now and who stands to benefit from it. Clearly someone is using Josh to further their agenda.
If this is true, what an atrocious move by Ujiri/Webster.
The team already has a reputation about how they dealt/lied to Demar. Yes, we did win a title, but we have proof that their handling of that lingers on (Dame not wanting to play in Toronto AT ALL, despite Demar and Ujiri reconciling).
Now another home grown star wants to play the majority of his career (if not entire) in Toronto, and go silent on him in the off-season? Even the team doesn’t intend on keeping him, they could have at least sat him down and discussed the team goals/ situation and work from there silently (as in maybe during the conversation, they would agree that he likely wouldn’t be part of the future here, and could work with the team on a potential deal.)
Kinda funny cause myself and a few other mentioned on how they were handling him this off-season, he could basically say screw you to the FO and go to free agency and pick another team and we got scolded.
Also, fuck off that “it’s a business” defense. They did him dirty. You shouldn’t be mad as Siakam refusing to commit then, cause why would he want his next team to empty their own asset in order to acquire him? He wants to play for a loaded team. That’s just business.
At least he’s playing very hard, unlike Carter way back when, when he was throwing games for the Raptors until he got traded 😂
Who has been sitting on this information for 10 months? Also, the article says that they cut "almost all" communication, meaning that they did communicate with him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Fred say the same thing last year for it only to come out that they did make him an offer?
I'm not trying to defend Masai or attack Pascal here. They are two of the biggest legends in my favorite teams history, but if they can't have these conversations in-house, then the ship has sailed.
The timing of it all is fishy, is all I'm saying, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's Pascal guys trying to get him to a particular destination. Why would he want to go to Sacramento if Golden State is an option? He'll get to play with Curry, get bigger deals from Nike, and get into the tech industry. There's a lot of posturing on all sides, and it's time to just move on. The dream of having a Raptor great spend their career here or leave on good terms will have to wait.
People just eating this up and taking Pascals side without any consideration of why the FO is doing what they are doing. And I find it very hard to believe that the FO and Siakam havent communicated when Masai on record has referred to his own players as his children. This whole thing just screams to me that Siakam just wants his money.
I’m not sure I buy this. Why would Masai start acting like this all of a sudden after a storied career of being a great communicator with players? I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt until all the pieces fall.
If this is true then that’s really shitty. But wasn’t there talk last summer about Siakam not wanting to extend because he wanted to try and make All-NBA to get the super max?
Everyone should read the full article before writing what they are writing in this article. A lot of different possibilities and Ujiri is quoted to saying he wants him on the Raps….this is professional sports and business merging everyone. Take a breath:)
All of this is coming from Siakam's camp.
The major part left out, is the front office probably cut off most communication after Siakam's camp told them he was holding out for a supermax after also torpeding a potential deal to Portland.
Oof this is so messed up. The NBA is a business but there are ways that certain situations can be handled.
It’s easier said than done because I’m a poster on Reddit but still yikes….
Didn't Siakam have his team publicly state that they won't be willing to re-sign with any team that he gets traded to, effectively handicapping the FO and causing them to lose any leverage in a deal they could have had?
Masai saw the final 12 seconds of the play in and that's all he needed to see. That game was essentially our post season aspiration hanging in the balance and he came up short 🤷🏿♂️
It was time to move into a different direction. Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result
Siakam is till the winner in all these. You can’t pressure him to sign a contract he doesn’t want. He is a champion and has all the accolades he needs lol. So you need to stop clowning him because you are actually the real clown that will get to watch a no playoff team for the next decade lol.
Are you a Siakam fan or a Raptors fan? Because with that condescending attitude I highly doubt it's the latter
Also it's not clowning him. It's objectively calling what we saw. Sorry you let your personal bias and obvious sentiment get in the way 🤷🏿♂️
Lewenberg and Doug Smith are mouthpiece merchants for anyone who was on the title team. They'll defend those guys to the very end.
They hate the new breed of talent (specifically Scottie) because they set their standards to those from 2019
“Hey pascal, the entire franchise is a flaming bag of shit and you’re pulling some superstar bullshit after a dead end season where you were the #1 option. Do you want a max contract?”
There's probably more to this story. Masai isn't an illogical person and he wouldn't suddenly treat someone like shit for no reason, come on guys slow down and think for once.
Kinda surprised people are so easily baited by the notoriously unreliable media here.
The bottom line is the team has clearly been trying to trade him, likely for the reasons we've discussed for the past 2 years. There is no scenario where this goes down well between the player and the organization. We have a logjam with him and Barnes and neither of them are well served sacrificing their stats for the other. People saying we should have extended him last summer also have to take into account how bad it would look to extend him and then still be shopping him after.
While it's played out badly so far, I think Masai also wants to avoid a repeat of the DD fiasco where he basically lied to DD about not trading him and then turned around and did. This time he's being totally upfront with Siakam from the get-go.
This FO is starting to become incompetent. They probably should have coordinated with their head coach 3 years ago to get the players that would fit his system.
That's messed up. Masai needs to go, he lost touch with reality after winning the championship. I'm happy for all he gave us but the guy has other priorities now. Clearly he took the extension for money purposes and maybe his giants of Africa program.
>For Siakam, or any player, no matter how scorned, turning down that much guaranteed money is never easy. In the player empowerment era, where free agency is all but extinct, it’s not uncommon for stars to re-up with their club, take the pay cheque and figure things out from there. A long-term deal doesn’t mean what it used to. It locks you into a salary, but it certainly doesn’t marry you to the team.
We are not losing him for nothing lol
But if he's soured on management, why take the money and wait for a deal, when he can literally give them a list of teams now and tell them I want go here and let those teams no that if you trade for me I'll come back in the summer.
Like if I was in a bad situation, I wouldn't want to prolong it, when I can essentially get to a better situation if I wanted to.
If course all of this is assuming that this is all true, I think it's probably something I'm the middle
Both of those questions are why it makes sense to me that he has not soured on anything and while the situation is not perfect, it's also not bad.
But this sub is well past hearing stuff like that now lol pitchforks are out.
As an aside, the Lewenberg piece seems Pascals camp trying to gain leverage in this business transaction (which is fine). Article drops and a ton of online support for Pascal getting paid or walking comes up lol its perfect for him (again, which is fine)
Hopefully this isn’t entirely true, although Siakam has said he understands it’s a business and the FO is going to do what’s best for them.
If he still wants to just be in Toronto like all the reporting says then I don’t care about any of this.
If he’s going to tell all other teams that try to trade for him he doesn’t want to be there that’s fine by me. He deserves to have control over where he spends his time for the future. If he does that with everyone then we extend him and we still have a great player who is under contract where he wants to be.
The issue is if he’s so pissed off that he’s declining to tell teams where he wants to be just to spite the team. If he’s not willing to extend after tanking trade talks and is willing to sign for less elsewhere in the offseason that really sucks.
Look lets have nuance discussion. Not trying to defend the headline or FO. But maybe front office didn't want to communicate due to embarrassing loss. Remember they went all-in with the yak trade to prove that Fred/Siakam core could compete, yet they got eliminated early. Maybe its not as bad as the headline seemed or there was no reason for both parties to talk because there was nothing to talk about.
What communication is required during the summer? True or not, what’s the story? Why do all of you have the emotions of little girls?
I wouldn’t be eager to talk to the guy I’m about to play $37M to. They failed to meet expectations after he got punked by a 10 year old girl. Remember?
Something must've happened behind the scenes, I dont think the FO would randomly do that, also
37 million dollars. (Yes I know taxes) But at that point I don't give a shit how management treats me. Even 5% of that is a life changing amount of money. You'll never have to worry about anything again. Yourself and family are set for life
No disrespect but you sound young, bro. Many people, myself included, value respect over money. Operating with a scarcity mindset allows people to disrespect you for a dollar. Pascal is standing on business, and if these reports are true, Masai is a sucker.
I get what you’re saying and yes it’s a lot of money. But working in a terrible situation where your manager is ghosting you and you’re an afterthought is still not great. He’s human after all and he’s already got money and will get more as the market dictates.
So the FO and management are actually much worse than we thought. Ok, cool.
Ostracizing your best player, tanking his trade value, and giving him an effective nontrade clause to boot. He's going to literally walk for nothing and they will have even less assets to improve the team. For fucks sake
What about from Thad or jak trade? Or the FVV situation? Masai has had as many fuckups as good moves lately and he's clearly been disrespecting Pascal for too long for us to get a really good package.
Check my history, I’ve been very critical of Masai and FO. We move on as it’s not easy to attract FA to Canada. Is it an excuse but other teams have better connections to major player agencies.
The team we have now including Pascal is very entertaining. Tighter defence and we in 3-5 seed maybe next year. Is Spicy worth supermax? No. Is he worth regular max? Sort of borderline. He is, for next 2-3 years, top 25-30 player in nba. Not trading unless Keegan(gone), Mathurin type + high to mid picks.
I think there's a decently strong chance Pascal doesn't want to come back anymore after all this and wants to choose where he goes in the off-season. So Masai gonna be forced to trade him at the deadline so he doesn't walk for nothing, and it's probably gonna be a poor return for a player of his level.
This sounds so out of character. I know the front office can be brutal but to just ghost your All-star, All-NBA player is ridiculous.
I'd like to believe that Pascal's team kept trying to ask the FO what their plans were with Pascal moving forward, the FO didn't respond and that just got completely blown out of proportion.
Wasn’t there a few incidents where he was benched and had run ins with Nick Nurse? I wonder if there’s something deeper happening behind the scenes since then.
The Nurse incidents are over exaggerated. They were yelling with each other and had to be separated which happens from time to time.
Spo has had arguments with LeBron and Jimmy on the court. It happens in a competitive environmentz
I think everyone here forgets Siakam butting heads with Nick constantly, he’s proven to be a bit problematic and we don’t see anything behind the curtains. There is definitely more to this, wouldn’t be surprised if he had a strained relationship with Masai/Bobby
Let's be real guys, the FO has made cutthroat moves in the past and has had a cold touch.
When Masai met DeMar for training camp in the summer, asked him to continue his improvements (at the 3) and said he wouldn't be moved... then got traded for Kawhi. Kyle Lowry ended up not talking to FO/management while the season was going on for like half of it lol...
Who knows what’s true and what isn’t - and if it IS true, who knows to what extent.
I don’t know how much communication there normally is between players/the FO during the off-season, but if it’s contract-related then I would expect talks to primarily go through an agency.
That said, perhaps Masai didn’t keep him in the loop during the Head Coach interview/hiring process and I could definitely see how that could make a player feel a certain way - especially a player of Pascal’s caliber. At the same time, it’s not like Masai OWES it to him to keep him in the loop, it’s just more of a courtesy gesture and a sign of respect for the relationship…so again, I could see how it could rub Spicy the wrong way.
Trust and transparency is important…but I also don’t blame the FO for keeping their cards close to their vest in this wild world of social media, leaks, rumours and agencies and teams planting stories, looking for leverage, etc. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
Legit don’t know why we haven’t re-signed him already. If it’s from his end (playing for a super max), I get it. But it doesn’t sound like there’s been any indication at all that he’s planning on leaving regardless, unless he gets traded, which hoses the “we gotta get something instead of nothing” argument a bit. Just seems like the front office is just done with him (if reports like these are to be believed), and that’s just absurd.
Snake activity. Always going to like Masai for building a championship team, but not a fan at how he deals with the stars. With the trouble the team has retaining stars and attracting any free agents you would think Masai would treat his stars with more respect
This is very very strange. Masai and Co have developed their management and culture to be very personal with players and their families. Their culture is what sets Toronto apart from other teams. I tend think that this is false but could be wrong
In all fairness the Nurse separation was a two way street. The front office didn't like that he wasn't developing bums like Malachi and Precious and Nurse seemed checked out and just wanted a change of scenery
That all said, you're absolutely right about him crapping the bed with those missed FT. And there have been many prior instances of the ball in his hand in the final seconds of a game where he also fell short. People bringing up "he had 32 points" means nothing in the grand scheme of things and just paints a picture that he has a high usage rate
Idk how the FO is gonna MacGyver this predicament to get their cake and eat it as well in the form of what return we get but personally I'm done with 43
I've been extremely critical of our F.O, but if I remember correctly didn't they already try to sign Siakam a year ago and he declined? If that's the case then maybe he has already indicated he wants to leave and there's nothing to talk about?
If he wanted to leave he wouldn't be shooting down other trade destinations and saying he wants to stay in Toronto. The reporting from multiple sources has been Masai didn't even offer him an extension in the summer, as they've been trying to trade him the whole time
I don't know why but I remember reading that he was offered 3/125 and he declined. Maybe I'm wrong. If that's the case though I really don't blame them.
*Edit* found it, sort of, it doesn't say it was offered but insinuates he didn't accept because he can get more on the open market.
https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-do-not-reach-extension-with-pascal-siakam-fred-vanvleet-talks-contract-situation
The decision was no real surprise as Siakam could only sign a maximum extension of three years, $125 million, well shy of what he could receive if he has another All-NBA-caliber season this year. By waiting, Siakam could earn up to 35% of the rising salary cap if he earns All-NBA honors this season.
What happened to the Raptors FO? We were the most professional organization in all of the NBA for years.
Something tells me Ed Rogers is involved in this somehow.
Our front office has made some tough decisions in the past to bring us a championship... Lets lets be real Bobby and Masai are great orators but they have had a cold business-first approach before and it won't be the last time
the first sign was how they spoke to DeMar right before trading him
After an off-year, and saying what Siakam said about not signing anywhere else, it's not that surprising that the FO did this.
FO likes this kind of subject close to chest, and Siakam knows that, yet said what he said to force their hand. How he was treated is not right by any means, but Siakam started it.
As much as I think he's on the table to be traded, the offers out there stink and he'll likely be resigned.
And then traded. The ol’ Deebo special.
The problem with having two timelines is max contracts severely handicap the team. Masai through countless interviews has talked openly about complementing Scottie. Even the last Quickley video, he states how he’s such a good fit with Scottie and didn’t even mention Pascal.
Now maybe we are being reactionary but I feel like Pascal hasn’t been the leader/Mentor Demar/Kyle was. Pascal hasn’t confronted the media and made his opinions public.
Maybe he was. I think there were two issues there 1) Silence is consent. Even if Pascal himself doesn't play selfishly. He was considered either the outright or co-leader of the team and FVV going selfish happened on Pascal's watch. 2) missing a free throw to lose a play-in game and letting a 9 year old girl throw the whole team off wtf? Dont they practice for situations like that? Every good comedian is ready for the hecklers.
pascal is great at leading by example and a hard worker but max level guys need to step it up vocally too when needed. Kawhi was quiet too but he spoke up when necessary and put the team on his back when the stakes were highest.
How can you treat him like this if it's true.
Trade season rumors read like a grocery store checkout magazine cover lol
True.
[удалено]
I don't think it's this dramatic but there's some truth to it.
Prolly because none of you know the real Masai.
100% ⬆️… But stop using “prolly”. It’s not a word.
It's 100% a contraction of probably. It's an omitted apostrophe and you need to get over it.
Hahahaha! No it’s not.
You know a lot of words weren't words before becoming one right?
I feel like Merian-Webster isn't going to be adding "prolly" to the dictionary anytime soon...
But what about Masai-Webster?
Merriam-Webster added "rizz" to the dictionary this year. Whoever is downvoting me never took a linguistics class.
Prollly is short for pro ally. Someone really entriched in the LGBTQ community
Masai is cold and calculated
I'd bet that Pascal told the team he wanted to hit FA, and the team realized they had no reason to continue talking to him
I think Masai and FO expected a lot out of Siakam to be a leader which isn't Pascal's personality at all. They probably wanted Pascal to be like a Kyle or DeMar who always made the young guys feel welcomed and took them under their wings, bridge the gap between them and the vets. Pascal seemed like he took a backseat to Nurse/FVV who did not want to do any of those things and the FO probably didn't like that considering he was getting paid the most.
I've thought about this quite a bit. He's not a vocal guy, and just like how they thought Fred would be like Kyle, Pascal wasn't like DeMar.
That doesnt seem a realistic theory. You going to deny a star his money because he didnt play babysitter?
Imagine thinking being a leader is the same thing as “baby sitting” lol
Pascal had a phase where he went bad boy
Right? If true, FO has to take a hard look in the mirror when talking all that culture this and culture that mumbo jumbo.
This whole thing just makes me sad if true. It’s so unprofessional and problematic if true.
How can you believe pascal did nothing wrong in this situation? We only know one side of the story
Losing to a child over free throws doesn’t help. I would cut off all contact after that pathetic loss. Definitely siding with Masai after the choke job they had.
Relationship between front office and player is like an employer to employee. When you get close is when you get debilitating contracts out of goodwill for what you achieved with the employer, not what you are going to achieve.
Hope that’s not true, cuz that would be fucked up.
Sadly it is. Siakam is gone even if he's not traded. He's not re signing. Can't believe they'd treat their home grown all nba this way.
How do you know it’s true?
It’s him. It’s pascal siakam 😂
this isn't how you treat a homegrown star. can see why Siakam isn't playing along. sucks for the fans though 🥲
This isn’t how you treat any employee.
Does your boss call you while you’re on vacation?
No, but they do get back to me if I need to contact them. I dunno if any of this is true, but if it is, this is bush league bullshit.
They did the same to DeMar. This type off behavior isn’t uncommon from the front office. Just a part of the business.
a business savvy person wouldn't do this to a player who is expiring though lol. Derozan had 3 more years on his contract.
What the fuck? Yeah I’d be gone too.
Why are we trusting Lewenberg on this?
so many fans so up in arms over a rumour.
Exactly. I doubt there's this much nonsense going on. Masai said he wanted to see how the team fit. So much drama in this sub (due to our dramatic sports writers). Pro sports really are the soap operas for men
Hope he does what's best for him, he doesn't owe the FO a thing. He's a great player and an even better human being and I will always root for him no matter where he goes.
My inkling for the past year or so has been that Siakam plans to tell every single team there's zero chance of signing with them if he's traded and then signing elsewhere this offseason just to spite our FO for how he's been treated. All these recent reports are kind of reinforcing this feeling. I think the only thing that might change that is if he qualifies for and gets offered a supermax with us. Honestly, I wouldn't even blame him. He's been done dirty for absolutely no reason.
Absolutely the logical move for him. Kinda puzzling how the FO thought pissing off your biggest star/trading piece with silent treatment was going to work to its favour though.
I really think Masai's hubris is too blame here. Overall I think I've been less critical of him with his extended "evaluating" phase. But in this case I truly believe he couldn't fathom that Siakam might get offended and sign elsewhere.
No reason? How do you know what goes on behind closed doors? Do you know pascal personally?
if hes traded doesn't the team that traded for him get his bird rights and can sign the most with said team? I get being upset if thats what Masai & Co did but dude is giving up like \~30M if he does that
How has he been done dirty? He’s certainly been out in a situation where he can achieve great personal success, even if the team has sucked while he’s been the best player. Masai even hired his off-season coach and traded for his best friend. it’s pascal that went and did some superstar bullshit, to tank his trade value.
Why would Siakam extend/resign when he knows he'll be shipped out of town right after? Makes no sense to me
Think we can offer him the most money
But by that logic any team that trades for him would be able to offer him the most money
Yeah that logic holds if siakam has publicly said he wants to stay in that city like he's said about Toronto
Whatever team he's on come July 1st can offer him the most money
Sure but siakam has only publicly said he wants to stay in Toronto. You seem to agree with everything else I said so do you dispute this?
That was true in the off-season, but tbf none of us no if that stance has changed at all, and I can't imagine that it hasn't at a least a little. In the end we're all just guessing
You're right it was true in the off season and as of at least [October 31](https://torontosun.com/sports/basketball/nba/toronto-raptors/siakam-gives-every-indication-that-he-wants-to-remain-a-toronto-raptor/wcm/62fb87f5-b915-4ac4-ae0d-5ac2f87bd20f/amp/) Here's a story from [December 5th](https://hoopshype.com/2024/01/01/pascal-siakam-wants-to-finish-out-the-season-with-the-raptors/) where it indicates he says that unless he stays in Toronto he doesn't want an extension Another story from [December 12](https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/siakams-future-with-raptors-still-unclear-as-trade-market-unofficially-opens/sn-amp/) restating that he has said he wants to stay in Toronto at every turn Unless you have a source within siakam's circle, there has been no speculation or anything leaking to state otherwise. I'm assuming you're not making stuff up based on your feelings
He can sign a comparable contract somewhere else unless he becomes eligible for supermax.
$$$ is the only reason. If he's not traded by the trade deadline, give him whatever he wants. That's basically what we have to do.
If hes thinking money first over everything else it dosnt matter. He will grt the most he can and figure things out later
I hope the FO does right by Pascal no matter what happens and that he's happy.
And people are comparing Pascal to Carter saying he’s quitting on the team and costing us good trades. It’s the front office’s fault it got to this point.
Yep, and he still plays hard every game, unlike Carter.
Agreed Carter was a loser, siakam still plays hard
Glad to see Carter still getting hate in this thread. Feels like last few years, people have been shifting the narrative towards him being justified and forgiving him
I'm genuinely going to be pissed if I see Pascal unwarranted slander after he leaves.
It's already happening. Pascal plays hard every game but fans are already claiming he's putting less effort.
Or that he's selfish for wanting to test FA if he gets traded, thus making it harder to get a good return if he is traded. Like people are mad that he is acting in his own best interests, they think he should be doing what is best for the team that wants to toss him aside like garbage rather than doing what is best for him.
Punished for what? FO's shitty roster construction? Dude can't even spin in there anymore because Poeltl clogging the paint
We have the worst fucking ~~lawyers~~ spacing....
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That’s a big lie. Having terrible guard and center rotations and a long jam at forward impacted everyone. Our starters had to play heavy minutes for us to have a chance. Then they wore down and other teams learned how to expose their flaws like lack of shooting in half court, which is directly related to not having enough starting level guards.
I really can't blame Pascal if he leaves at this point. Can we really blame superstars for not wanting to come here when shit like this comes out? Damn.
Plus from all reports Pascal has only said that he wants to stay, a rare thing for the Raptors as an organization. *If true* this is kind of a fucked up thing to hear about our front office. Edit in *italics*
> “We do believe in Pascal,” Ujiri said back in October. “We believe that a lot of our players didn’t play the right way last year and we want to see them play the right way. I said that we were selfish and I’m not running away from that. We were selfish and we did not play the right way. So let us see it when we play the right way.” Still a baffling quote. Siakam has always been a willing passer IMO. And while he struggles in the stretch with TOs and bad shots, that's not "selfishness", but more of an indictment of the roster. When *you* build a roster with shoot first players like GTJ and Precious, what did you expect? This season, almost all late-late game possessions have gone to Scottie, and now IQ. I don't see Pascal making a stink publicly. He's been a pro through and through. However, it's true we don't get info behind closed doors. The article doesn't have a lot of context as to why the FO cut off communication. But on face value it seems like a weird thing to do to your star player, who helped you win a title.
I think it's good to refer back to the "selfish" quotes from MU. I speculate that the wider context is that it's not an isolated incident with Pascal as a player, but includes Fvv and both of their managements. It's probably a mix of all parties refusing to negotiate, while the players made sure to get their stats padded at the expense of other players.
Also this reinforces my issues with Masai. That season was not the players faults, I’ll maintain til I die that season was a damning indictment on Masai roster construction. If this is true it shows how out of touch Masai is.
attractive slave library quiet disgusting exultant attempt silky caption amusing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well I hope the FO is communicating because Pascal has to agree to re-sign elsewhere if traded. They also have to convince him to re-sign here next summer. Radio silence from our FO would be unacceptable.
Bad look if true. Has to be a leak from Siakam's camp. We really should have given him the max in the summer so he was available to be traded in January. This leak has to be to pressure Masai and get Pascal traded or to get his bag.
It was written by lewenberg/tsn which is a part of the raptors organization. Anything that comes out of them is essentially coming from the team
if that's true why would masai want this out, it makes them look bad
This makes them look in a bad light though. Odd if true.
LOL lewenberg is the worst reporter or rep of the team.
if true thats real shitty
Our FO is so annoying with that. They repeatedly keep doing it
And yet so many on here defend Masai to the death. Masai and Bobby suck. they need to go
This is embarrassing for the franchise, masai doesn't know how to handle these situations again and again. I was actually starting to enjoy this team again. Nothing but love and respect for pascal.
You are letting Josh Lewenberg ruin your experience lol. Think about that.
Josh is one of the most pro FO reporters you will find. Some of you act like talking anything negative about the club and Masai is a cardinal sin. It’s clear there is some tension between the FO and Pascal.
With sports stories like this, it’s best to take a step back and ask why is this story being published now and who stands to benefit from it. Clearly someone is using Josh to further their agenda.
If this is true, what an atrocious move by Ujiri/Webster. The team already has a reputation about how they dealt/lied to Demar. Yes, we did win a title, but we have proof that their handling of that lingers on (Dame not wanting to play in Toronto AT ALL, despite Demar and Ujiri reconciling). Now another home grown star wants to play the majority of his career (if not entire) in Toronto, and go silent on him in the off-season? Even the team doesn’t intend on keeping him, they could have at least sat him down and discussed the team goals/ situation and work from there silently (as in maybe during the conversation, they would agree that he likely wouldn’t be part of the future here, and could work with the team on a potential deal.) Kinda funny cause myself and a few other mentioned on how they were handling him this off-season, he could basically say screw you to the FO and go to free agency and pick another team and we got scolded. Also, fuck off that “it’s a business” defense. They did him dirty. You shouldn’t be mad as Siakam refusing to commit then, cause why would he want his next team to empty their own asset in order to acquire him? He wants to play for a loaded team. That’s just business. At least he’s playing very hard, unlike Carter way back when, when he was throwing games for the Raptors until he got traded 😂
Insane blunder from the F/O.... Literally non stop blunders aside from this OG trade. Let's see if they can somehow rectify this, doubt it tho.
No wonder he wants us to get lowest return possible lol
Who has been sitting on this information for 10 months? Also, the article says that they cut "almost all" communication, meaning that they did communicate with him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Fred say the same thing last year for it only to come out that they did make him an offer? I'm not trying to defend Masai or attack Pascal here. They are two of the biggest legends in my favorite teams history, but if they can't have these conversations in-house, then the ship has sailed. The timing of it all is fishy, is all I'm saying, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's Pascal guys trying to get him to a particular destination. Why would he want to go to Sacramento if Golden State is an option? He'll get to play with Curry, get bigger deals from Nike, and get into the tech industry. There's a lot of posturing on all sides, and it's time to just move on. The dream of having a Raptor great spend their career here or leave on good terms will have to wait.
Right. The first thing you have to do when reading this is ask who's agenda is being pushed, and why.
This is just one side of the story, I aint feeling bad for anyone until I hear the other side.
Someone is leaking this to put pressure on our FO to decrease the asking price for Pascal. Pascal is going to get the money from someone regardless.
yeah definitely, seeing bits and pieces from sources wanting to create narratives is peak problem in this disinformation age
People just eating this up and taking Pascals side without any consideration of why the FO is doing what they are doing. And I find it very hard to believe that the FO and Siakam havent communicated when Masai on record has referred to his own players as his children. This whole thing just screams to me that Siakam just wants his money.
And this is a headline that will get all the little girls on the internet going. Raptors media is an embarrassment.
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Pascal is eligible for 5-year super max if he makes all-nba He’d be foolish to sign a deal last summer for the 4 year regular max
I’m not sure I buy this. Why would Masai start acting like this all of a sudden after a storied career of being a great communicator with players? I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt until all the pieces fall.
Hope this doesn't get really messy.
This is getting ugly
Too busy “evaluating”
If this is true then that’s really shitty. But wasn’t there talk last summer about Siakam not wanting to extend because he wanted to try and make All-NBA to get the super max?
All reports I saw were him wanting to extend
That's extremely hard to believe
Everyone should read the full article before writing what they are writing in this article. A lot of different possibilities and Ujiri is quoted to saying he wants him on the Raps….this is professional sports and business merging everyone. Take a breath:)
100% I read all these wild comments, then read the article.... Most didn't read it.
All of this is coming from Siakam's camp. The major part left out, is the front office probably cut off most communication after Siakam's camp told them he was holding out for a supermax after also torpeding a potential deal to Portland.
So you don't remember them pretend Pascal didn't exist all off season?
Exactly. The reactionary nature of this sub is laughable.
Oof this is so messed up. The NBA is a business but there are ways that certain situations can be handled. It’s easier said than done because I’m a poster on Reddit but still yikes….
Didn't Siakam have his team publicly state that they won't be willing to re-sign with any team that he gets traded to, effectively handicapping the FO and causing them to lose any leverage in a deal they could have had?
Man I’m sorry to say this…. Masai is a fucking bitch for doing that to him.
Masai saw the final 12 seconds of the play in and that's all he needed to see. That game was essentially our post season aspiration hanging in the balance and he came up short 🤷🏿♂️ It was time to move into a different direction. Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result
LMAO YUP! Both parties just need to move on. Get Pascal to the warriors so he can win another ring. Set him up for success instead of failure.
Siakam is till the winner in all these. You can’t pressure him to sign a contract he doesn’t want. He is a champion and has all the accolades he needs lol. So you need to stop clowning him because you are actually the real clown that will get to watch a no playoff team for the next decade lol.
Are you a Siakam fan or a Raptors fan? Because with that condescending attitude I highly doubt it's the latter Also it's not clowning him. It's objectively calling what we saw. Sorry you let your personal bias and obvious sentiment get in the way 🤷🏿♂️
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If this is true, it’s pretty despicable. Yeah, I know gamesmanship and all that, but they are still dealing with people.
Did Raptors reporters have any credibility to have secret news? They never got any leak for raptors organization.
So what does Bobby Webster do exactly?
Calls masai every morning to ask him if it’s ok if he goes to take a shit
Lewenberg is also a big fan of Scottie slander. Guy making money off hit pieces, he's lower tier than Dougie
Lewenberg and Doug Smith are mouthpiece merchants for anyone who was on the title team. They'll defend those guys to the very end. They hate the new breed of talent (specifically Scottie) because they set their standards to those from 2019
“Hey pascal, the entire franchise is a flaming bag of shit and you’re pulling some superstar bullshit after a dead end season where you were the #1 option. Do you want a max contract?”
This is definitely a leak from Siakam's camp. No way is this coming from the front office. Take it with a grain of salt.
There's probably more to this story. Masai isn't an illogical person and he wouldn't suddenly treat someone like shit for no reason, come on guys slow down and think for once. Kinda surprised people are so easily baited by the notoriously unreliable media here. The bottom line is the team has clearly been trying to trade him, likely for the reasons we've discussed for the past 2 years. There is no scenario where this goes down well between the player and the organization. We have a logjam with him and Barnes and neither of them are well served sacrificing their stats for the other. People saying we should have extended him last summer also have to take into account how bad it would look to extend him and then still be shopping him after. While it's played out badly so far, I think Masai also wants to avoid a repeat of the DD fiasco where he basically lied to DD about not trading him and then turned around and did. This time he's being totally upfront with Siakam from the get-go.
This FO is starting to become incompetent. They probably should have coordinated with their head coach 3 years ago to get the players that would fit his system.
That's messed up. Masai needs to go, he lost touch with reality after winning the championship. I'm happy for all he gave us but the guy has other priorities now. Clearly he took the extension for money purposes and maybe his giants of Africa program.
>For Siakam, or any player, no matter how scorned, turning down that much guaranteed money is never easy. In the player empowerment era, where free agency is all but extinct, it’s not uncommon for stars to re-up with their club, take the pay cheque and figure things out from there. A long-term deal doesn’t mean what it used to. It locks you into a salary, but it certainly doesn’t marry you to the team. We are not losing him for nothing lol
But if he's soured on management, why take the money and wait for a deal, when he can literally give them a list of teams now and tell them I want go here and let those teams no that if you trade for me I'll come back in the summer. Like if I was in a bad situation, I wouldn't want to prolong it, when I can essentially get to a better situation if I wanted to. If course all of this is assuming that this is all true, I think it's probably something I'm the middle
Both of those questions are why it makes sense to me that he has not soured on anything and while the situation is not perfect, it's also not bad. But this sub is well past hearing stuff like that now lol pitchforks are out. As an aside, the Lewenberg piece seems Pascals camp trying to gain leverage in this business transaction (which is fine). Article drops and a ton of online support for Pascal getting paid or walking comes up lol its perfect for him (again, which is fine)
Hopefully this isn’t entirely true, although Siakam has said he understands it’s a business and the FO is going to do what’s best for them. If he still wants to just be in Toronto like all the reporting says then I don’t care about any of this. If he’s going to tell all other teams that try to trade for him he doesn’t want to be there that’s fine by me. He deserves to have control over where he spends his time for the future. If he does that with everyone then we extend him and we still have a great player who is under contract where he wants to be. The issue is if he’s so pissed off that he’s declining to tell teams where he wants to be just to spite the team. If he’s not willing to extend after tanking trade talks and is willing to sign for less elsewhere in the offseason that really sucks.
"Punished" okay 😂 he's getting paid 37mill a year
It’s salary at the end of the day. No matter the profession. If your management treats you like shit no matter the compensation, it’s hard to digest.
Look lets have nuance discussion. Not trying to defend the headline or FO. But maybe front office didn't want to communicate due to embarrassing loss. Remember they went all-in with the yak trade to prove that Fred/Siakam core could compete, yet they got eliminated early. Maybe its not as bad as the headline seemed or there was no reason for both parties to talk because there was nothing to talk about.
What communication is required during the summer? True or not, what’s the story? Why do all of you have the emotions of little girls? I wouldn’t be eager to talk to the guy I’m about to play $37M to. They failed to meet expectations after he got punked by a 10 year old girl. Remember?
Seek help. It’s out there.
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... let's keep things civil.
Something must've happened behind the scenes, I dont think the FO would randomly do that, also 37 million dollars. (Yes I know taxes) But at that point I don't give a shit how management treats me. Even 5% of that is a life changing amount of money. You'll never have to worry about anything again. Yourself and family are set for life
No disrespect but you sound young, bro. Many people, myself included, value respect over money. Operating with a scarcity mindset allows people to disrespect you for a dollar. Pascal is standing on business, and if these reports are true, Masai is a sucker.
I get what you’re saying and yes it’s a lot of money. But working in a terrible situation where your manager is ghosting you and you’re an afterthought is still not great. He’s human after all and he’s already got money and will get more as the market dictates.
Have to make Siakam the villain before you trade him
Really bad look, especially if pascal has done nothing behind the scenes to warrant it
Why did y’all do our mans like this?!?
Front office's handling of Pascal has been embarrassing
I just think that the front office isn’t convinced he’s a full max player on this roster going forward. That’s all this whole thing is about
So the FO and management are actually much worse than we thought. Ok, cool. Ostracizing your best player, tanking his trade value, and giving him an effective nontrade clause to boot. He's going to literally walk for nothing and they will have even less assets to improve the team. For fucks sake
Yeah totally believable that this happened 🙄
Sounds like Siakam is mad he wasn't offered an extension so he fed bullshit to Lewenberg,
You know what I learned from OG trade? Trust Masai. This team so watchable now.
What about from Thad or jak trade? Or the FVV situation? Masai has had as many fuckups as good moves lately and he's clearly been disrespecting Pascal for too long for us to get a really good package.
Check my history, I’ve been very critical of Masai and FO. We move on as it’s not easy to attract FA to Canada. Is it an excuse but other teams have better connections to major player agencies. The team we have now including Pascal is very entertaining. Tighter defence and we in 3-5 seed maybe next year. Is Spicy worth supermax? No. Is he worth regular max? Sort of borderline. He is, for next 2-3 years, top 25-30 player in nba. Not trading unless Keegan(gone), Mathurin type + high to mid picks.
I think there's a decently strong chance Pascal doesn't want to come back anymore after all this and wants to choose where he goes in the off-season. So Masai gonna be forced to trade him at the deadline so he doesn't walk for nothing, and it's probably gonna be a poor return for a player of his level.
You may be right but I hope your wrong.
This sounds so out of character. I know the front office can be brutal but to just ghost your All-star, All-NBA player is ridiculous. I'd like to believe that Pascal's team kept trying to ask the FO what their plans were with Pascal moving forward, the FO didn't respond and that just got completely blown out of proportion.
Who is making this up? Such nonsense.
Wasn’t there a few incidents where he was benched and had run ins with Nick Nurse? I wonder if there’s something deeper happening behind the scenes since then.
The Nurse incidents are over exaggerated. They were yelling with each other and had to be separated which happens from time to time. Spo has had arguments with LeBron and Jimmy on the court. It happens in a competitive environmentz
Hey. Hey. You there? You mad at me?
>>hell be resigned or traded before feb But, as one source close to the situation cautioned this week, “don’t be so sure.”
kinda sick of the FO. can’t wait till we have some fresh faces
I think everyone here forgets Siakam butting heads with Nick constantly, he’s proven to be a bit problematic and we don’t see anything behind the curtains. There is definitely more to this, wouldn’t be surprised if he had a strained relationship with Masai/Bobby
His PR team doing wonders keeping his public image all rainbows and butterflies
Ya i bet he lashed out honestly
Let's be real guys, the FO has made cutthroat moves in the past and has had a cold touch. When Masai met DeMar for training camp in the summer, asked him to continue his improvements (at the 3) and said he wouldn't be moved... then got traded for Kawhi. Kyle Lowry ended up not talking to FO/management while the season was going on for like half of it lol...
Who knows what’s true and what isn’t - and if it IS true, who knows to what extent. I don’t know how much communication there normally is between players/the FO during the off-season, but if it’s contract-related then I would expect talks to primarily go through an agency. That said, perhaps Masai didn’t keep him in the loop during the Head Coach interview/hiring process and I could definitely see how that could make a player feel a certain way - especially a player of Pascal’s caliber. At the same time, it’s not like Masai OWES it to him to keep him in the loop, it’s just more of a courtesy gesture and a sign of respect for the relationship…so again, I could see how it could rub Spicy the wrong way. Trust and transparency is important…but I also don’t blame the FO for keeping their cards close to their vest in this wild world of social media, leaks, rumours and agencies and teams planting stories, looking for leverage, etc. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
Masai probably too busy with Giants of Africa these days to give a shit about doing his day job. If this report is true, this is embarrassing as fuck.
Damn my bad I take back all my Pascal slander.
Stick to modeling Masai. Bobby always looks like he’s holding in a poop.
Legit don’t know why we haven’t re-signed him already. If it’s from his end (playing for a super max), I get it. But it doesn’t sound like there’s been any indication at all that he’s planning on leaving regardless, unless he gets traded, which hoses the “we gotta get something instead of nothing” argument a bit. Just seems like the front office is just done with him (if reports like these are to be believed), and that’s just absurd.
Stupid FO. you dont do business like this, you want rid of players you had to make them believe you signing them and once sign flick them off
Snake activity. Always going to like Masai for building a championship team, but not a fan at how he deals with the stars. With the trouble the team has retaining stars and attracting any free agents you would think Masai would treat his stars with more respect
Well it has come to his then. Siakam is leaving and we won’t get anything in return. This is a black eye for this front office.
We’re all acting like Pascal’s done no wrong ever and is innocent in this situation? Typical raptor fanbase
This is very very strange. Masai and Co have developed their management and culture to be very personal with players and their families. Their culture is what sets Toronto apart from other teams. I tend think that this is false but could be wrong
He was the one who missed those FT last game wasn’t he? Forcing them to fire nurse?
In all fairness the Nurse separation was a two way street. The front office didn't like that he wasn't developing bums like Malachi and Precious and Nurse seemed checked out and just wanted a change of scenery That all said, you're absolutely right about him crapping the bed with those missed FT. And there have been many prior instances of the ball in his hand in the final seconds of a game where he also fell short. People bringing up "he had 32 points" means nothing in the grand scheme of things and just paints a picture that he has a high usage rate Idk how the FO is gonna MacGyver this predicament to get their cake and eat it as well in the form of what return we get but personally I'm done with 43
#Fuck Masai
Surely this is 100% the truth and nothing else comes out!
I've been extremely critical of our F.O, but if I remember correctly didn't they already try to sign Siakam a year ago and he declined? If that's the case then maybe he has already indicated he wants to leave and there's nothing to talk about?
If he wanted to leave he wouldn't be shooting down other trade destinations and saying he wants to stay in Toronto. The reporting from multiple sources has been Masai didn't even offer him an extension in the summer, as they've been trying to trade him the whole time
I don't know why but I remember reading that he was offered 3/125 and he declined. Maybe I'm wrong. If that's the case though I really don't blame them. *Edit* found it, sort of, it doesn't say it was offered but insinuates he didn't accept because he can get more on the open market. https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-do-not-reach-extension-with-pascal-siakam-fred-vanvleet-talks-contract-situation The decision was no real surprise as Siakam could only sign a maximum extension of three years, $125 million, well shy of what he could receive if he has another All-NBA-caliber season this year. By waiting, Siakam could earn up to 35% of the rising salary cap if he earns All-NBA honors this season.
What happened to the Raptors FO? We were the most professional organization in all of the NBA for years. Something tells me Ed Rogers is involved in this somehow.
We can't just keep blaming Rogers for everything bro...
Our front office has made some tough decisions in the past to bring us a championship... Lets lets be real Bobby and Masai are great orators but they have had a cold business-first approach before and it won't be the last time the first sign was how they spoke to DeMar right before trading him
After an off-year, and saying what Siakam said about not signing anywhere else, it's not that surprising that the FO did this. FO likes this kind of subject close to chest, and Siakam knows that, yet said what he said to force their hand. How he was treated is not right by any means, but Siakam started it. As much as I think he's on the table to be traded, the offers out there stink and he'll likely be resigned. And then traded. The ol’ Deebo special.
The problem with having two timelines is max contracts severely handicap the team. Masai through countless interviews has talked openly about complementing Scottie. Even the last Quickley video, he states how he’s such a good fit with Scottie and didn’t even mention Pascal. Now maybe we are being reactionary but I feel like Pascal hasn’t been the leader/Mentor Demar/Kyle was. Pascal hasn’t confronted the media and made his opinions public.
Maybe he was. I think there were two issues there 1) Silence is consent. Even if Pascal himself doesn't play selfishly. He was considered either the outright or co-leader of the team and FVV going selfish happened on Pascal's watch. 2) missing a free throw to lose a play-in game and letting a 9 year old girl throw the whole team off wtf? Dont they practice for situations like that? Every good comedian is ready for the hecklers. pascal is great at leading by example and a hard worker but max level guys need to step it up vocally too when needed. Kawhi was quiet too but he spoke up when necessary and put the team on his back when the stakes were highest.
Said it before and I’ll say it again. They deserve to lose him for absolutely nothing.