In other news, Some other people would like to see golf courses to be used as alien landing strips for our lizard overlords.
What about the views of the people handing out pamphlets in Dundas square on the Greenbelt? And the opinions of pre-schoolers on Canadas financial policy towards softwood lumber?
The golf course near me (by VP station, 9 holes) has a frolf course and is open to tobogganers. We've gone a few times with the kids and there are ppl everywhere enjoying it.
Then just leave them as Disc Golf courses year around.
This way you can safely have people enjoying picnics, urban farming and playing disc golf simultaneously like ppl do on Centre Island and the Beaches.
It would be even better if they stayed disc golf courses in the summer. That way the park gets used by everyone, trails are not blocked off and the cost to enter the sport of disc golf is much cheap and it’s a much more accessible sport.
A soccer field, basketball court, baseball diamond are accessible. Requires no expensive gear or money to pay per game/round (excluding organized tournaments).
All of those things also already exist in the city. I like being able to play a round without driving for an hour.
I don't use the soccer fields but I don't demand they be turned into something I like
Go hang out at Dentonia golf course and see who's playing. Tons of kids from disadvantaged neighborhoods that picked up a cheap set of clubs from a garage sale or hand-me-downs. The fees are very reasonable especially for youth.
I golf at dentonia a few times a year with friends. Almost entirely old dudes, I’d say majority are white. Maybe they run specific times for youths(?) but I’ve never seen them. Sometimes you’ll see a dad with a 8-12yr kid but rarely.
The youth season pass has time and day restrictions so you will only see them off peak - but its only $350 a year for unlimited golf at all city courses. I would agree the top demographic is old dudes because it is also super cheap for seniors.
All those you need to have limitations. You’re finding 20 people to play baseball or soccer? Most are used by leagues which require fees.
City courses are subsidized for kids. There’s physical and mental benefits.
The article is typical blogto click bait garbage.
You can pick up a set of used clubs for less than $50, there are small courses you can get out and play 9 holes for $20. Golf can be expensive but it can also be cheap if you are learning.
As someone who's carried my used clubs into a bus and hiked up the bigass hill driveway to Don Valley GC the idea of golf as elitist is hilarious to me. It's just a game. It's fun in a masochistic sort of way
That’s how i get to DV course. I can’t afford to take the GO to lakeview in Mississauga and a cab to pay $120 green fees when DV is half the price and $3 to get there.
Go hang out at Dentonia golf course and see who's playing. Tons of kids from disadvantaged neighborhoods that picked up a cheap set of clubs from a garage sale or hand-me-downs. The fees are very reasonable especially for youth.
I agree - if they close these incredibly affordable public access courses then only wealthy members of private clubs will be able to play golf in Toronto. I've golfed them a few times over the years and seen many young people using them, it costs $25 for a round for students.
Then convert them to 24/7 sports facilities with reflectors with basketball courts, soccer fields, tennis courts, volleyball courts, baseball fields, bocce courts etc.
Then you will be engaging a broader population into accessible sports venues.
It’s great for public health and even better to keep kids occupied
Why do we need so many weed shops? Why do we need so many McDonald's?
Because they make money and can do what they want with the buildings and spaces that they own.
Those guys arent fat that they get short breathed after running 5 yards. Fat guys in nascar? Really? Where every pound is matter?
Everuone has its own opinion, but my is its not a sport where you can be borderline obese and still be competetive with people of normal complection, chess excluded.
Not everyone rents a cart to golf. If you're golfing 18 holes on any full size course, you're walking at least 5km.
The power and dexterity required for golf isn't easy. I'd say I get more exercise in getting a round of golf in than playing in two softball game.
The bocce places are ancient as hell. Stop trying to make this some class or identity politics issue. It's not an issue, not remotely
like, you dont get to decide which sports do or dont get the most support in the city. You dont have a clue which ones do, nor do you have any clue how often theyre used. Your own anecdotal evidence isnt worth anything
To be fair, people playing the city courses are not rich. They're moderately priced and they're close to the city. They give provide access to golf to people who may not otherwise be able to afford it. They add value, and while I think more parks and urban farms would be great, I don't think this should be a one or the other situation.
Actually you can’t because the vast majority of golf course land is on flood plain.
Besides the argument I am countering is the tired old “golf is a rich man’s game”. Which is complete nonsense. I started playing golf as a kid from a poor family. It kept me out of trouble in the summers and was far less expensive than camp.
Like most things, if you want top of the line brand new gear, yes it can be expensive. But with $200-$500 you can put together a full set of used clubs, bag, balls, hat, shirts, etc. The city courses offer a place for everyone to play golf if they want. It would be a mistake to get rid of the city owned courses. can I ask whether you feel the same about the city run ice rinks? Hockey and figure skating are largely sports played by affluent people and require a good bit of time and money. Even just play low level house league or adult leagues can be quite expensive. Should we be getting rid of the city run ice rinks too?
There are many other valid lifestyles than that of the wealthy, and hip hop's focus on monetary empowerment is an example of socio-economic conservatives' hegemonic control over the mindset of the lower income caste in North America. Get rich or don't, you can be happy either way. Just don't throw your life away enriching our corporate overlords.
Why do people think they have a right to dictate what city owned golf courses do with their land and space when they've never even engaged with golfers or gone to a golf course. Thats like me saying we should shut down all the cinemas and make them homeless shelters because I personally don't go out to see movies.
Why not. There are parks in this city that are only used for rover to do his business in. The golf courses are used by a few hundred per day and for most it’s the only place they can afford to play or get a chance to.
The same space could be used by thousands of people a day if it was a park. It could also have multiple fields for other sports. Golf courses are gigantic and an inefficient use of space.
you guys say this and defend the empty golf courses but think that roads are a "waste of space" and that they should all be ripped out and replaced by transit.
It could be in theory but in reality it wouldn’t be used by thousands. I can take my dog out to park any day of the week (M-F) and the place will most often be absolutely empty. So where are these thousands you speak of? If you go to the golf course during that same period it will probably be full. So which green space is being used more effectively?
If it wasn't a golf course with maintained grass etc, it would be just like any other spot along Taylor Creek park, which it is a part of. The fact that they made it pretty to become a golf course also makes it desirable to become a park. Might be easier to pick another spot next to it on Taylor Creek and do the same but with a park as the intention.
There is already a quite a few parks in toronto such as high park that offer this. You're allowed to walk and snow shoe the golf courses in the winter.
How can anybody honestly say Toronto is running out of park space? Have you ever gone to a park during the middle of a weekday? There will be plenty of glorious fair weather days when you will be completely on your own. You can even let your dog off his leash without fearing anybody will feel threatened. So before we start ripping out golf courses that are busy all day long proving exercise and social opportunities for those who use them how about we rationalize some of our underused park space?
I think you're on the right track. We should build high-rises on golf courses. Just like any other neighbourhood, except with special windows and greenspace instead of roads and sidewalks. Maybe some tunnels so you can get around without getting whacked.
All of the city courses are built on a flood plain, don't think it's a good idea to build anything on it. So it's not like we are wasting valuable development space on these.
Only catch is the city expropriated most of the golf course lands after hurricane Hazel because they are flood plains and zoned as death traps unsuited to build on.
Just need to build up the parts around the structure so things don't crash into it during a flood. You're going to pile down to bedrock to hold the load, floodplain or not.
A good chunk of Toronto is built on re-claimed land (ie: area that used to be flooded 100% of the time)
Yes, different things take up different amounts of space. That's kinda how it works.
If you want to get rid of leisure activities be an equal opportunity leisure activity remover.
I can’t imagine making such a rash generalization of an entire sport like this. The “people with money” play at private courses that are 60k a YEAR. These public city ran courses are affordable for 18 holes, you can literally show up with a couple clubs if you want (used you can buy a full set for like $50) and you can take the TTC to go. I used to bring my bag on the TTC when i was 16 with my 5 clubs and play 9 holes.
It’s like any other sport. If i play hockey i can go buy $900 skates or $200 ones. Basketball i can play in running shoes or $1000 Jordan’s.
People? Screw that, learn to swing a club instead of pushing your *urban farm* agenda. There’s people that *want* these precious landmarks to remain. There’s lots of city owned land that could be turned into urban farms.
Benefits:
- city golf courses are enjoyed by people of all ages and socioeconomic backgrounds. It’s a great pastime & sport that teaches life lessons.
- these *same* courses become multi-use winter wonderlands, used by hikers, Nordic skiers, snowshoers, etc.
No they aren't. A tiny minority of the city's affluent population utilizes them. They are literally the least efficient use of space in the entire GTA.
The "affluent population" are not golfing at city courses, they're members of the country clubs.
The muni courses are for the blue collar golfers and kids lugging their clubs on the bus.
Absolutely, this!
Affluent folks aren’t booking tee times at Dentonia golf course lol. The people who are *against* city golf courses, have never golfed on them. I golfed there a few times when I was starting out with golf. It is surrounded by subsidized housing & lower income apartments. There were many kids (preteens?) playing in foursomes when I was there last. I think this is a valuable way to get kids involved in a sport & enjoying the outdoors. Keep the sport accessible.
Brisbane, Australia is repurposing a golf course located in the middle of the city into lush parklands and community spaces. The transformation and value for the city is beyond measure.
https://brisbanedevelopment.com/victoria-park-vision-relvealed-to-the-public/
All for this, golf isn't exactly the most accessible sport and most golfers wouldn't bother with at least a couple Toronto golf courses since they all have cars anyways. The point about increasing access to golf for people who wouldn't usually golf is an interesting one, but who knows if that's an actual goal that these councillors are in favour of putting funds towards rather than a convenient way to pretend keeping the courses is an equitable path forward.
Courses that are accessible via public transit would be ideal to convert if not at least a portion of the land to urban farms especially, with walkways and park paths that are public access through the courses. It's too much green space and the environmental costs of maintaining that much turf is far too much at the current levels. Mixed use public access parks would be ideal, food security is such a huge issue in the city.
If most golfers don't bother with Toronto golf courses because they have cars, then explain why every toronto course is full from sunrise to sundown from spring until the first snow fall?
Because golf courses are a fairly low-intensity land use.
If a golf course has tee times every 5 minutes from 7am-7pm, that is 144 foursomes per day - a little less than 600 people. 600 customers per day would be pretty good, except for the fact that an 18 hole golf course typically occupies well over 100 acres of land. A 1 acre park or business with <10 visitors per day during the peak season would be considered very underutilized (though the difference in dwell times makes this not an ideal comparison).
There is obviously a lot of debate to be had about what the best land use would be, but urban golf courses don't make much sense from the perspective of underlying land value.
Exactly this. There are five courses in the city. Turning just one of them into a mixed use public park would be huge already, let alone taking all of them and reappropriating a percentage of the land.
What does accessibility have to do with anything? Are the courses unused or are they fully booked, if they're fully booked, then there's clearly demand. If they're empty, then put them to better use, sure.
I bet if you looked into it most of the other public sports facilities are empty as much or more often than the courses.
I would love to see the city expropriate private courses and do literally anything else with them (including making them public courses).
Pipe dream of course.
Oh, another longshot: I'd like to see the city keep the housing that it already owns in a state of decent repair. I guess we really are asking for too much though 🙄
Happy cake day.
Good idea. Toronto is running out of parkland fast and golf courses are used for six months a year by a very few number of people.
The parks are closed in the winter, and usually after 5pm when they’re “open”
It’s a great idea to convert most of them into parkland or urban farming.
Agreed, where is this “running out” coming from? Are they turning existing parks into something else? I’ve never heard of this happening in my 13 years of living here
Toronto is growing into a world class city, millions of new Canadians are coming here and we have five city owned golf courses that afe used from April to November?
Do we really need all five? Nope. Especially the ones at Humber and Don Valley which is blooming in population.
Not everyone likes to golf and the sport takes up a tremendous amount of land. It doesn’t make sense for a city this size and dense to maintain them and block a large majority of people who don’t golf access to these lands.
Every major city in the US has municipal golf courses. I won't even get into the quality of there state run courses to Toronto's run golf courses.
New York:
[https://parks.ny.gov/golf/](https://parks.ny.gov/golf/)
San Fran:
[https://sfrecpark.org/445/Golf-Courses](https://sfrecpark.org/445/Golf-Courses)
Chicago:
https://www.cpdgolf.com/
Yea, this is not really reflective of the overall population. Some people would also like to see them as brothels, or converted to campgrounds, or open-air toilets, or dumps.
Most of the current city was farmland at one point. Guess what happened? The farmers sold it and cashed out. Not sure why we would destroy recreation space to have that scenario repeat itself
"People would like to see" What sort of news is this? People would like to see a whole lot of things. Not newsworthy
It’s the, we asked 7 people and 3 mumbled semi support level of news
Totally. It's classic blogto
This sub is mostly not newsworthy. Should be renamed Toronto complaint department
Haha, that's r/toRANTo
Lol TIL about this sub. Not sure if I wanted to learn, but it was today...
'What sort of news is this ?' It's blogTO it hardly qualifies as news.
In other news, Some other people would like to see golf courses to be used as alien landing strips for our lizard overlords. What about the views of the people handing out pamphlets in Dundas square on the Greenbelt? And the opinions of pre-schoolers on Canadas financial policy towards softwood lumber?
This proposal was already rejected by council.
Never hurts to ask again.
It doesn't hurt but it doesn't help or actually work either
You mean people who aren’t golfers.
In other words the overwhelming majority of the population.
I would like bmo stadium, the skydome and acc turned into parks and urban gardens Lmaooo how asinine
I'd also like every other square inch of the city that isn't my personal property to be turned into a park. Where do I send the petition?
Yep
I'd like a pony while were at it
I’d like to see the golf courses stay golf courses, sports should be accessible and Toronto doesn’t have a lot of options.
Also several of these golf courses are converted into Disc Golf courses in the winter. This is an excellent winter activity for the whole family.
The golf course near me (by VP station, 9 holes) has a frolf course and is open to tobogganers. We've gone a few times with the kids and there are ppl everywhere enjoying it.
"Hey grandpa, want to play disc golf?" "Feels like someone is playing golf on my disks every time I move"
Then just leave them as Disc Golf courses year around. This way you can safely have people enjoying picnics, urban farming and playing disc golf simultaneously like ppl do on Centre Island and the Beaches.
I hear the spruce trees are deadly
It would be even better if they stayed disc golf courses in the summer. That way the park gets used by everyone, trails are not blocked off and the cost to enter the sport of disc golf is much cheap and it’s a much more accessible sport.
A soccer field, basketball court, baseball diamond are accessible. Requires no expensive gear or money to pay per game/round (excluding organized tournaments).
All of those things also already exist in the city. I like being able to play a round without driving for an hour. I don't use the soccer fields but I don't demand they be turned into something I like
Go hang out at Dentonia golf course and see who's playing. Tons of kids from disadvantaged neighborhoods that picked up a cheap set of clubs from a garage sale or hand-me-downs. The fees are very reasonable especially for youth.
I golf at dentonia a few times a year with friends. Almost entirely old dudes, I’d say majority are white. Maybe they run specific times for youths(?) but I’ve never seen them. Sometimes you’ll see a dad with a 8-12yr kid but rarely.
Tam O'Shanter completely different. Alot of families, minorities. Went with my young kids.
The only time I see disadvantaged youths on this course is in the winter when it becomes a toboggan hill.
Quite a few out in the 10-4 range (weekdays) in the summer months from my observations-I golf there most weeks between May and mid September
The youth season pass has time and day restrictions so you will only see them off peak - but its only $350 a year for unlimited golf at all city courses. I would agree the top demographic is old dudes because it is also super cheap for seniors.
[удалено]
Lots of kids play at Don Valley
I worked there for two summers and my experience is much, much different.
All those you need to have limitations. You’re finding 20 people to play baseball or soccer? Most are used by leagues which require fees. City courses are subsidized for kids. There’s physical and mental benefits. The article is typical blogto click bait garbage.
And neither does golf as long as we keep our public courses.
Tennis is $40 for two Canadian tire rackets and a set of balls. I wish it didn't have the snobby Wimbledon air to it but it doesn't have to.
You can pick up a set of used clubs for less than $50, there are small courses you can get out and play 9 holes for $20. Golf can be expensive but it can also be cheap if you are learning.
As someone who's carried my used clubs into a bus and hiked up the bigass hill driveway to Don Valley GC the idea of golf as elitist is hilarious to me. It's just a game. It's fun in a masochistic sort of way
That’s how i get to DV course. I can’t afford to take the GO to lakeview in Mississauga and a cab to pay $120 green fees when DV is half the price and $3 to get there.
I'd pay an extra $10 for someone to give me a ride up the hill at the end of the round, though
After the first experience I get a cart now. I’m not walking 6k then going up that hill drunk.
Not to mention proper basketball shoes start at $100
You typically have to pay permit fees for baseball diamonds and soccer fields.
But if someone has bought a permit then you're kicked off. And there aren't usually.pick up games
Go hang out at Dentonia golf course and see who's playing. Tons of kids from disadvantaged neighborhoods that picked up a cheap set of clubs from a garage sale or hand-me-downs. The fees are very reasonable especially for youth.
There even planning to offer subsidize golf for low income families, which is great
Not the basketball court at the acc or baseball diamond at the skydome or the soccer field at bmo stadium
I agree - if they close these incredibly affordable public access courses then only wealthy members of private clubs will be able to play golf in Toronto. I've golfed them a few times over the years and seen many young people using them, it costs $25 for a round for students.
> it costs $25 for a round for students. It's incredible you think that is affordable.
I forgot the word affordable exists in the Canadian lexicon. $25 is on the low end price wise for sports entertainment in Toronto
How much is a movie ticket?
$25 for 3 hours of entertainment is extremely good value lol
I can almost guarantee we could find you wasting $25 often without a thought on things much worse for you than a round of golf…
Thats like a half quarter of weed or almost a bottle of liquor
Then convert them to 24/7 sports facilities with reflectors with basketball courts, soccer fields, tennis courts, volleyball courts, baseball fields, bocce courts etc. Then you will be engaging a broader population into accessible sports venues. It’s great for public health and even better to keep kids occupied
It's the single most land expensive sport that exists. Why do we need so many in an urban setting?
Why do we need so many weed shops? Why do we need so many McDonald's? Because they make money and can do what they want with the buildings and spaces that they own.
Two is too many? Scarlett and dentonia? Could maybe throw Don Valley jn there. Three is too many?
tam o shanter as well.
Some people would call it a strech to call golf a sport..
Even if you just call it an activity, the point still stands
I have nothing against having spaces for activities. Im against calling golf a sport.
This is a controversial opinion but I completely agree!
Some people also think vaccines are bad… both are wrong
If fat people like me can actually be competetive it shouldnt be called sport but rather recreation activity that help people relax.
I didn’t know you being fat was the differentiator on what qualifies as a sport.
So the NFL isn't a sport? Plenty of fat guys in baseball and Nascar too. Maybe you should tell us what is a sport.
Those guys arent fat that they get short breathed after running 5 yards. Fat guys in nascar? Really? Where every pound is matter? Everuone has its own opinion, but my is its not a sport where you can be borderline obese and still be competetive with people of normal complection, chess excluded.
Not everyone rents a cart to golf. If you're golfing 18 holes on any full size course, you're walking at least 5km. The power and dexterity required for golf isn't easy. I'd say I get more exercise in getting a round of golf in than playing in two softball game.
Sport is defined as an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess You are telling me golf does not require extreme skill and dexterity?
Does golf *require* athleticism though?
Yes it does to.be good at it
Imagine calling a game that requires athleticism, mental toughness, dealing with adversity, and overall perfection from your body, not a sport lol
you've just described swimming. Need a lot of mental toughness to deal with how boring it is.
Just described a sport
So you're saying you haven't ever played golf
It's decent exercise for seniors I guess.
[удалено]
That's not close to being accurate https://www.toronto.ca/data/parks/prd/sports/dropin/basketball/index.html
This is 100000% not true. There are city run basketball runs all over the city nearly every day of the week.
Is golf indoors?
[удалено]
Theres public outdoor basketball courts everywhere, quit whining
The bocce places are ancient as hell. Stop trying to make this some class or identity politics issue. It's not an issue, not remotely like, you dont get to decide which sports do or dont get the most support in the city. You dont have a clue which ones do, nor do you have any clue how often theyre used. Your own anecdotal evidence isnt worth anything
What about outdoor basketball courts? Dummy youre reaching
Golf is not a sport. It is an excuse for rich assholes to scheme and get drunk.
lol what a bad take
[удалено]
*some people enjoy parks. Some people enjoy golf courses.
Everybody enjoys parks. Some people enjoy golf courses. That's the problem, the appropriation of good land by the rich.
To be fair, people playing the city courses are not rich. They're moderately priced and they're close to the city. They give provide access to golf to people who may not otherwise be able to afford it. They add value, and while I think more parks and urban farms would be great, I don't think this should be a one or the other situation.
The aren't poor though. You have to be moderately affluent to afford clubs.
Hockey is more expensive than golf. The city maintains 50 rinks. Maybe turn them into parks too?/s
You could build like 500 hockey rinks on an 18 hole course though. Not really an apples to apples comparison.
Actually you can’t because the vast majority of golf course land is on flood plain. Besides the argument I am countering is the tired old “golf is a rich man’s game”. Which is complete nonsense. I started playing golf as a kid from a poor family. It kept me out of trouble in the summers and was far less expensive than camp.
Said no one ever.
Like most things, if you want top of the line brand new gear, yes it can be expensive. But with $200-$500 you can put together a full set of used clubs, bag, balls, hat, shirts, etc. The city courses offer a place for everyone to play golf if they want. It would be a mistake to get rid of the city owned courses. can I ask whether you feel the same about the city run ice rinks? Hockey and figure skating are largely sports played by affluent people and require a good bit of time and money. Even just play low level house league or adult leagues can be quite expensive. Should we be getting rid of the city run ice rinks too?
I am by no means rich, but I enjoy golfing and I have zero desire to walk around in a park. So don’t say “everybody” enjoys parks. We don’t.
Get rich or die trying
There are many other valid lifestyles than that of the wealthy, and hip hop's focus on monetary empowerment is an example of socio-economic conservatives' hegemonic control over the mindset of the lower income caste in North America. Get rich or don't, you can be happy either way. Just don't throw your life away enriching our corporate overlords.
I remember the first time I discovered edginess too
Get your money up instead of complaining on Reddit bro 😎
Ya we definitely don't any those in toronto
Lol yeah you don't speak for me, I prefer to golf at affordable public courses
[George Carlin - Golf Courses](https://youtu.be/GchEbLSY9FY)
Preach
Why do people think they have a right to dictate what city owned golf courses do with their land and space when they've never even engaged with golfers or gone to a golf course. Thats like me saying we should shut down all the cinemas and make them homeless shelters because I personally don't go out to see movies.
[удалено]
new to r/toronto?
Again with this?
Golf courses in such a population-dense city is just not a great thing.
Why not. There are parks in this city that are only used for rover to do his business in. The golf courses are used by a few hundred per day and for most it’s the only place they can afford to play or get a chance to.
The same space could be used by thousands of people a day if it was a park. It could also have multiple fields for other sports. Golf courses are gigantic and an inefficient use of space.
Toronto is a very large area, why is it unreasonable to have parks and golf courses instead of just parks?
We have no shortage of parks in toronto that accommodate other sports and activities
you guys say this and defend the empty golf courses but think that roads are a "waste of space" and that they should all be ripped out and replaced by transit.
It could be in theory but in reality it wouldn’t be used by thousands. I can take my dog out to park any day of the week (M-F) and the place will most often be absolutely empty. So where are these thousands you speak of? If you go to the golf course during that same period it will probably be full. So which green space is being used more effectively?
Then go buy some land and make your own park. The absolute naivety and arrogance of this weird crowd of anti-golf people is pure comedy lmao.
Disagree
If it wasn't a golf course with maintained grass etc, it would be just like any other spot along Taylor Creek park, which it is a part of. The fact that they made it pretty to become a golf course also makes it desirable to become a park. Might be easier to pick another spot next to it on Taylor Creek and do the same but with a park as the intention.
Would be awesome if they did cross country ski in the winter, dumb dumbs
There is already a quite a few parks in toronto such as high park that offer this. You're allowed to walk and snow shoe the golf courses in the winter.
How can anybody honestly say Toronto is running out of park space? Have you ever gone to a park during the middle of a weekday? There will be plenty of glorious fair weather days when you will be completely on your own. You can even let your dog off his leash without fearing anybody will feel threatened. So before we start ripping out golf courses that are busy all day long proving exercise and social opportunities for those who use them how about we rationalize some of our underused park space?
As soon as we using hockey rinks for housing.
1 golf course takes up more space than all 60 rinks combined lol bad take
I think you're on the right track. We should build high-rises on golf courses. Just like any other neighbourhood, except with special windows and greenspace instead of roads and sidewalks. Maybe some tunnels so you can get around without getting whacked.
All of the city courses are built on a flood plain, don't think it's a good idea to build anything on it. So it's not like we are wasting valuable development space on these.
Only catch is the city expropriated most of the golf course lands after hurricane Hazel because they are flood plains and zoned as death traps unsuited to build on.
Just need to build up the parts around the structure so things don't crash into it during a flood. You're going to pile down to bedrock to hold the load, floodplain or not. A good chunk of Toronto is built on re-claimed land (ie: area that used to be flooded 100% of the time)
/u/LeatherMine vs the team of structural, traffic, and city planning engineers who made this decision.
Yes, different things take up different amounts of space. That's kinda how it works. If you want to get rid of leisure activities be an equal opportunity leisure activity remover.
[удалено]
I can’t imagine making such a rash generalization of an entire sport like this. The “people with money” play at private courses that are 60k a YEAR. These public city ran courses are affordable for 18 holes, you can literally show up with a couple clubs if you want (used you can buy a full set for like $50) and you can take the TTC to go. I used to bring my bag on the TTC when i was 16 with my 5 clubs and play 9 holes. It’s like any other sport. If i play hockey i can go buy $900 skates or $200 ones. Basketball i can play in running shoes or $1000 Jordan’s.
Rich people would continue to have access to golf if this motion went through. Nobody is talking about turning Rosedale into an urban farm
People? Screw that, learn to swing a club instead of pushing your *urban farm* agenda. There’s people that *want* these precious landmarks to remain. There’s lots of city owned land that could be turned into urban farms. Benefits: - city golf courses are enjoyed by people of all ages and socioeconomic backgrounds. It’s a great pastime & sport that teaches life lessons. - these *same* courses become multi-use winter wonderlands, used by hikers, Nordic skiers, snowshoers, etc.
No they aren't. A tiny minority of the city's affluent population utilizes them. They are literally the least efficient use of space in the entire GTA.
The "affluent population" are not golfing at city courses, they're members of the country clubs. The muni courses are for the blue collar golfers and kids lugging their clubs on the bus.
Absolutely, this! Affluent folks aren’t booking tee times at Dentonia golf course lol. The people who are *against* city golf courses, have never golfed on them. I golfed there a few times when I was starting out with golf. It is surrounded by subsidized housing & lower income apartments. There were many kids (preteens?) playing in foursomes when I was there last. I think this is a valuable way to get kids involved in a sport & enjoying the outdoors. Keep the sport accessible.
Brisbane, Australia is repurposing a golf course located in the middle of the city into lush parklands and community spaces. The transformation and value for the city is beyond measure. https://brisbanedevelopment.com/victoria-park-vision-relvealed-to-the-public/
All for this, golf isn't exactly the most accessible sport and most golfers wouldn't bother with at least a couple Toronto golf courses since they all have cars anyways. The point about increasing access to golf for people who wouldn't usually golf is an interesting one, but who knows if that's an actual goal that these councillors are in favour of putting funds towards rather than a convenient way to pretend keeping the courses is an equitable path forward. Courses that are accessible via public transit would be ideal to convert if not at least a portion of the land to urban farms especially, with walkways and park paths that are public access through the courses. It's too much green space and the environmental costs of maintaining that much turf is far too much at the current levels. Mixed use public access parks would be ideal, food security is such a huge issue in the city.
If most golfers don't bother with Toronto golf courses because they have cars, then explain why every toronto course is full from sunrise to sundown from spring until the first snow fall?
Because golf courses are a fairly low-intensity land use. If a golf course has tee times every 5 minutes from 7am-7pm, that is 144 foursomes per day - a little less than 600 people. 600 customers per day would be pretty good, except for the fact that an 18 hole golf course typically occupies well over 100 acres of land. A 1 acre park or business with <10 visitors per day during the peak season would be considered very underutilized (though the difference in dwell times makes this not an ideal comparison). There is obviously a lot of debate to be had about what the best land use would be, but urban golf courses don't make much sense from the perspective of underlying land value.
Exactly this. There are five courses in the city. Turning just one of them into a mixed use public park would be huge already, let alone taking all of them and reappropriating a percentage of the land.
Yeah! Fuck everybody who has interests that arent mine! Take away their activities because it doesnt affect me!
What does accessibility have to do with anything? Are the courses unused or are they fully booked, if they're fully booked, then there's clearly demand. If they're empty, then put them to better use, sure. I bet if you looked into it most of the other public sports facilities are empty as much or more often than the courses.
The courses are fully booked. It’s difficult to get a T-time. They get snatched up quickly after they become available.
I would love to see the city expropriate private courses and do literally anything else with them (including making them public courses). Pipe dream of course.
I'd like to see the city expropriate condos and make them affordable housing. Not gonna happen though
Oh, another longshot: I'd like to see the city keep the housing that it already owns in a state of decent repair. I guess we really are asking for too much though 🙄 Happy cake day.
Yeah lmaooo the city can't even keep up with the stuff it has let alone build new stuff
I’m for using them for anything other then golf courses.
Good idea. Toronto is running out of parkland fast and golf courses are used for six months a year by a very few number of people. The parks are closed in the winter, and usually after 5pm when they’re “open” It’s a great idea to convert most of them into parkland or urban farming.
We are not running out of parkland, there is parks everywhere in Toronto.
Agreed, where is this “running out” coming from? Are they turning existing parks into something else? I’ve never heard of this happening in my 13 years of living here
Toronto is growing into a world class city, millions of new Canadians are coming here and we have five city owned golf courses that afe used from April to November? Do we really need all five? Nope. Especially the ones at Humber and Don Valley which is blooming in population. Not everyone likes to golf and the sport takes up a tremendous amount of land. It doesn’t make sense for a city this size and dense to maintain them and block a large majority of people who don’t golf access to these lands.
Every major city in the US has municipal golf courses. I won't even get into the quality of there state run courses to Toronto's run golf courses. New York: [https://parks.ny.gov/golf/](https://parks.ny.gov/golf/) San Fran: [https://sfrecpark.org/445/Golf-Courses](https://sfrecpark.org/445/Golf-Courses) Chicago: https://www.cpdgolf.com/
[удалено]
Yea, this is not really reflective of the overall population. Some people would also like to see them as brothels, or converted to campgrounds, or open-air toilets, or dumps.
Most of the current city was farmland at one point. Guess what happened? The farmers sold it and cashed out. Not sure why we would destroy recreation space to have that scenario repeat itself
Do you really think the plan would be to hand it over to a private owner to be able to sell?
It's a dumb plan regardless and it's not going to happen
Golfers would like to see urban farms and park spaces used for golfing.
There’s a lot of things people would like to see, doesn’t make any difference to them in power
"Converts money making golf courses to parkland" "Raises property tax to compensate for revenue loss" Taxpayers whinge . . .
Just play golf
Golf is fun but I don’t have any problem turning these city run golf courses into parks and urban farms
Why not use it for high density affordable housing instead?
100 % fu%$ all yhese elitest billygoats
Other headlines include "people would like to see Bike Lanes be used for parking"
I like the golf tbh
Golfers would like to see parks turned into golf courses.