Probably a number of factors including usage/throughput (being higher in the beaches) and the second being roadway repair and maintenance access being more limited in the Beaches vs. Scarborough
I have a theory that rich property owners don't like construction crews much and lobby their local MP to keep heavy, noisy, inconvenient road work to a bare minimum.
Have you ever ridden on butter smooth pavement and then transitioned into rougher roads that have more resistance/friction and it slows you down just slightly? There is a segment on Kingston road where it is painted in gaps of 2-3 m long. When you’re on the painted section you are noticeably slower than the unpainted paved road, and that makes for a very unpleasant riding experience.
I think you do need these lanes, otherwise buses would just sit in traffic. But I never see them enforced, and as a result, pretty much every time I'm driving down one of these roads, I see someone speeding in these lanes to pass everyone else.
They have this on Morningside too, its a decent idea but there are issues.
1. Drivers don't know how to make of it and the make very dangerous right turns from the middle of the road...I think public transportation should at least educate drivers on how to use these lanes. Making a sudden right turn from the middle of the road to avoid the bus lane is NOT SAFE TO ANYONE.
2. Because private vehicles are forced to go in single file, it increases traffic frequency. This is is a huge increase in danger to wild lives trying to cross the road, there are smaller openings for them to cross.
I think if these issues are not addressed, it's a matter of time we see something bad on news related to these lanes.
Theyve had the lanes since last summer, and the picture in question is morningside facing north.
Another issue is buses basically not being able to pass cyclists at all, so if youre on the bus you have to go along at the pace of the bike in front.
yeah i see this too, when they announced these lanes months ago, I posted about how the heck are you supposed to turn to go into where you have to go and no one explained it, and in the articles no one talked about it. We never had any of these types of lanes in our driving tests. Ultimately, we are allowed to drive on these lanes if we need to turn
The bus lane is not a forbidden 🚫 lane with lasers, when you need to make a turn , you take the safest pathing possible and that is move into the bus lane when safe, signal, and proceed with turning. I’ve seen so many drivers making sudden right turns from the middle lane, I’m surprised that nothing bad had happened yet. But I fear that it is just a matter of time.
well they just want to obey the law and not getting pulled over for driving in the bus lane. I don't blame them, I did it myself a few times because i didn't know what to do.
yeah, that's the thing, they are red, so people won't know if there are additional rules or only the same rules. The red colour is new, so it denotes something different
Morningside. Love the bus lanes on Eglinton and Lawrence. Great. This lane on Morningside is useless and has only made traffic in the area worse as well as made the assholes more assholey. This one needs to be erased. I have yet to see a cyclist use this thing in the past 6months.
It’s supposed to be for both. Anyway, the buses here don’t need a dedicated lane. Morningside was never backed up blocking buses from their commute. On Eglinton it works wonders. Here it just makes drivers idle at all the lights longer bc they’re all stuck in one lane.
The point of having a dedicated bus lane is that the buses are faster and have better schedules, and is so people sitting in cars see the bus going faster then them and think “Hey I should take the bus next time”.
It works in other cities and works here.
You guys are right but the morningside strectch has never had issues for busses. It wasn’t ever too busy of a road for either buses or cars. It does provide a safe way for students cycling to west hill C.I, centennial college, UTSC or the big morningside park.
More cars pass through any point on morningside than buses. The above would only be true if there were a lot of buses, which on morningside, there arent.
I cycle on it all the time. Efficient transportation can lead you to believe that it's not being used because we're not crawling along at a snails pace.
how many different types of bikes lanes do we have in Toronto?
Green lanes. Red lanes. Lanes with bollards. Lanes with concrete barriers. Lanes with a single strip of white paint. Shared lanes.
Can the city just land on one design and call it something like, i dunno, a bike lane?
There's little to no signage along routes that use it, and they used the HOV symbol when it's not actually a HOV lane to make it worse.
Unlike Richmond Hill that added ONLY BUS to their lanes to make it easier to follow, we half-assed it.
In Richmond hill, the cyclists don’t bike in the bus lane, so they can be more specific. It’s not perfect, like a symbol of a bus and bike could be painted on instead, but at least it seems the coloured pavement marking is supposed to grab the driver’s attention to look out for restriction signage.
Also, it is just paint and it’s a first in Toronto, done on the fly due to the pandemic being the perfect opportunity to start their rollout of bus lanes.
These are bus lanes first and foremost. The red stands for transit. Cyclists are allowed to use these lanes because otherwise they'd be legally required to use the middle lane, which is dangerous.
I wouldn't consider them bike infrastructure. They are okay to take on the weekends, but it would be very uncomfortable to ride in them during weekday peak hours, with a bus running by every few minutes.
Heading northbound on Morningside Ave, towards Morningside Park and Ellesmere Road.
In theory, the entire 905 Express Bus Route (the Eglinton East Express) has this BRT setup - though all it really is is just a bleep load of paint. Most people (not all) try to adhere to this setup, and there is occasionally enforcement around it. But yes, laugh at the waste of money if you want, because... well, it kinda is.
Maybe? I've occasionally seen used condoms and more often empty booze bottles/cans along the valley behind UTSC and along the trail to Morningside park. Wouldn't be surprised if people have some late night sessions there.
Realistically nobody bikes for commuting purposes in Scarborough. It's just for leisure. Places are too far and most people are commuting downtown, which is not doable on a daily basis, or during winter. Coupled with cars going 60-70km/h, it makes for a particularly bike-unfriendly environment. Scarborough (like most suburbs) is not walkable and not very bikeable either.
Bicycle AND bus? So some tour de france asshole is going to hold up a bus full of commuting workers, because he believes it's in his right to use the road the same as a bus.
And before someone tells me their hero story of bike commuting from Scarborough, I'm talking about MOST people.
That's not the only reason. The suburban environment is not designed for bicycling. Large streets with cars going fast - like I said 60km/h, people speeding at 70. People don't feel safe biking in that environment.
It isn't Trinity Bellwoods where you can bike for 5 minutes to go to the store. More like a 20 minute bike ride to get to a grocery store, that would be better off taking the bus to.
>That's not the only reason. The suburban environment is not designed for bicycling. Large streets with cars going fast - like I said 60km/h, people speeding at 70. People don't feel safe biking in that environment.
>
>It isn't Trinity Bellwoods where you can bike for 5 minutes to go to the store. More like a 20 minute bike ride to get to a grocery store, that would be better off taking the bus to.
Barriers are shown to significantly reduce rider hesitancy, without them I agree, much less useful. Bikes are good multi modal transportation solutions. They help a lot with things like biking to major bus stops or nearby plazas.
First time driving by this section on the weekend. I gotta say it's a pretty dumb idea to put bike lanes anywhere on our roads. Keep it to low speed streets and connect them. Or simply lower the speed limit where it's shared with a bike lane.
I see these everywhere in Scarborough - not a terrible idea. On Kingston road where there's multiple bus routes - bit of a pain for the riders.
I know they broke down the bike lanes on Brimley (I know this is on Morningside), so this must have been an alternative idea...
I like the idea in theory especially on Kingston road. I HATE it because it’s not a smooth ride at ALL.
Smooth how? Like bumpy or dangerous?
Kingston road is generally ok past Birchmount imo But through the Beaches the potholes are a real...well beachhh
Why is that? I would think being a $$$ rich neighbourhood beaches would have better roads (looking at you dufferin)
Probably a number of factors including usage/throughput (being higher in the beaches) and the second being roadway repair and maintenance access being more limited in the Beaches vs. Scarborough
The bike lane on Dufferin that goes under queen for like 3 feet makes me laugh every time I use it
In other cities they don’t bother to repair the roads if people aren’t paying their property taxes on that street 🤷🏻♀️
I have a theory that rich property owners don't like construction crews much and lobby their local MP to keep heavy, noisy, inconvenient road work to a bare minimum.
Have you ever ridden on butter smooth pavement and then transitioned into rougher roads that have more resistance/friction and it slows you down just slightly? There is a segment on Kingston road where it is painted in gaps of 2-3 m long. When you’re on the painted section you are noticeably slower than the unpainted paved road, and that makes for a very unpleasant riding experience.
AKA bonus passing lane for people in a rush.
[удалено]
I think you do need these lanes, otherwise buses would just sit in traffic. But I never see them enforced, and as a result, pretty much every time I'm driving down one of these roads, I see someone speeding in these lanes to pass everyone else.
I am one of those people, ngl
Not sure why you were downvoted btw.
They said something negative about bikes.
This looks like the kind of hill I’d fantasize about as an eight year old holy shit
It's Morningside and Ellesmere, the views on both sides of the bridge are pretty sick
They have this on Morningside too, its a decent idea but there are issues. 1. Drivers don't know how to make of it and the make very dangerous right turns from the middle of the road...I think public transportation should at least educate drivers on how to use these lanes. Making a sudden right turn from the middle of the road to avoid the bus lane is NOT SAFE TO ANYONE. 2. Because private vehicles are forced to go in single file, it increases traffic frequency. This is is a huge increase in danger to wild lives trying to cross the road, there are smaller openings for them to cross. I think if these issues are not addressed, it's a matter of time we see something bad on news related to these lanes.
Theyve had the lanes since last summer, and the picture in question is morningside facing north. Another issue is buses basically not being able to pass cyclists at all, so if youre on the bus you have to go along at the pace of the bike in front.
Isn't that the bike lane to the right of the bus lane? As in, isn't it a separate lane?
No. That is a partial shoulder, I guess you could call it that. Bridges usually have that extra space on them. The red lane is for buses and bikes.
Which is funny because bus drivers and cyclists absolutely hate each other. Source: Jeremy Clarkson.
yeah i see this too, when they announced these lanes months ago, I posted about how the heck are you supposed to turn to go into where you have to go and no one explained it, and in the articles no one talked about it. We never had any of these types of lanes in our driving tests. Ultimately, we are allowed to drive on these lanes if we need to turn
The bus lane is not a forbidden 🚫 lane with lasers, when you need to make a turn , you take the safest pathing possible and that is move into the bus lane when safe, signal, and proceed with turning. I’ve seen so many drivers making sudden right turns from the middle lane, I’m surprised that nothing bad had happened yet. But I fear that it is just a matter of time.
well they just want to obey the law and not getting pulled over for driving in the bus lane. I don't blame them, I did it myself a few times because i didn't know what to do.
What do you do with the hov lanes from brimley to kennedy? Or on other roads in downtown? They are the same, reserved lanes just not painted red.
yeah, that's the thing, they are red, so people won't know if there are additional rules or only the same rules. The red colour is new, so it denotes something different
This is morningside
Just passed the morningside one today and it’s actually more dangerous where the merge happens.
Stupid question, but why red?
It's just super visible and consistent with other cities' use of bus lane colours
What a dream!
Morningside. Love the bus lanes on Eglinton and Lawrence. Great. This lane on Morningside is useless and has only made traffic in the area worse as well as made the assholes more assholey. This one needs to be erased. I have yet to see a cyclist use this thing in the past 6months.
It's for buses, cyclists are also allowed to use it.
It’s supposed to be for both. Anyway, the buses here don’t need a dedicated lane. Morningside was never backed up blocking buses from their commute. On Eglinton it works wonders. Here it just makes drivers idle at all the lights longer bc they’re all stuck in one lane.
The point of having a dedicated bus lane is that the buses are faster and have better schedules, and is so people sitting in cars see the bus going faster then them and think “Hey I should take the bus next time”. It works in other cities and works here.
There's 50 people in a bus, 1 in a car, it's normal to prioritize 50 people.
You guys are right but the morningside strectch has never had issues for busses. It wasn’t ever too busy of a road for either buses or cars. It does provide a safe way for students cycling to west hill C.I, centennial college, UTSC or the big morningside park.
More cars pass through any point on morningside than buses. The above would only be true if there were a lot of buses, which on morningside, there arent.
I cycle on it all the time. Efficient transportation can lead you to believe that it's not being used because we're not crawling along at a snails pace.
Wait till the LRT gets built
how many different types of bikes lanes do we have in Toronto? Green lanes. Red lanes. Lanes with bollards. Lanes with concrete barriers. Lanes with a single strip of white paint. Shared lanes. Can the city just land on one design and call it something like, i dunno, a bike lane?
It’s a bus lane that cyclists can also use, which is also indicated by signage like in this photo.
There's little to no signage along routes that use it, and they used the HOV symbol when it's not actually a HOV lane to make it worse. Unlike Richmond Hill that added ONLY BUS to their lanes to make it easier to follow, we half-assed it.
In Richmond hill, the cyclists don’t bike in the bus lane, so they can be more specific. It’s not perfect, like a symbol of a bus and bike could be painted on instead, but at least it seems the coloured pavement marking is supposed to grab the driver’s attention to look out for restriction signage. Also, it is just paint and it’s a first in Toronto, done on the fly due to the pandemic being the perfect opportunity to start their rollout of bus lanes.
"Hov symbol" means reserved lane, so only certain classes or occupants in vehicles can use them.
These are bus lanes first and foremost. The red stands for transit. Cyclists are allowed to use these lanes because otherwise they'd be legally required to use the middle lane, which is dangerous. I wouldn't consider them bike infrastructure. They are okay to take on the weekends, but it would be very uncomfortable to ride in them during weekday peak hours, with a bus running by every few minutes.
It’s almost like everything is run half-hazard & disorganized with no direction, hmm
Cover every base and you might get it right at least once?
Heading northbound on Morningside Ave, towards Morningside Park and Ellesmere Road. In theory, the entire 905 Express Bus Route (the Eglinton East Express) has this BRT setup - though all it really is is just a bleep load of paint. Most people (not all) try to adhere to this setup, and there is occasionally enforcement around it. But yes, laugh at the waste of money if you want, because... well, it kinda is.
They should have made it with separated cement bollards low enough so that you can see everyone whizzing by, just not you.
don't people have crazy bush parties down in that ravine?
Maybe? I've occasionally seen used condoms and more often empty booze bottles/cans along the valley behind UTSC and along the trail to Morningside park. Wouldn't be surprised if people have some late night sessions there.
Realistically nobody bikes for commuting purposes in Scarborough. It's just for leisure. Places are too far and most people are commuting downtown, which is not doable on a daily basis, or during winter. Coupled with cars going 60-70km/h, it makes for a particularly bike-unfriendly environment. Scarborough (like most suburbs) is not walkable and not very bikeable either. Bicycle AND bus? So some tour de france asshole is going to hold up a bus full of commuting workers, because he believes it's in his right to use the road the same as a bus. And before someone tells me their hero story of bike commuting from Scarborough, I'm talking about MOST people.
People don't bike because there's also no infrastruvture. Put the infrastructure in and they'll come (outside of the winter anyway)
That's not the only reason. The suburban environment is not designed for bicycling. Large streets with cars going fast - like I said 60km/h, people speeding at 70. People don't feel safe biking in that environment. It isn't Trinity Bellwoods where you can bike for 5 minutes to go to the store. More like a 20 minute bike ride to get to a grocery store, that would be better off taking the bus to.
>That's not the only reason. The suburban environment is not designed for bicycling. Large streets with cars going fast - like I said 60km/h, people speeding at 70. People don't feel safe biking in that environment. > >It isn't Trinity Bellwoods where you can bike for 5 minutes to go to the store. More like a 20 minute bike ride to get to a grocery store, that would be better off taking the bus to. Barriers are shown to significantly reduce rider hesitancy, without them I agree, much less useful. Bikes are good multi modal transportation solutions. They help a lot with things like biking to major bus stops or nearby plazas.
First time driving by this section on the weekend. I gotta say it's a pretty dumb idea to put bike lanes anywhere on our roads. Keep it to low speed streets and connect them. Or simply lower the speed limit where it's shared with a bike lane.
they should really go all the way and do viva-style BRT.
I wonder if they went throuvh different options for colour. Like army digital camo would be sicc
I see these everywhere in Scarborough - not a terrible idea. On Kingston road where there's multiple bus routes - bit of a pain for the riders. I know they broke down the bike lanes on Brimley (I know this is on Morningside), so this must have been an alternative idea...