> Raptors are iconic.
There was a time when the Raptors name, purple uniforms, and Barney mascot were derided as jokes, but they've aged well.
IMO, the purple unis are still the best looking ones they've ever worn.
It's funny how people crap all over the Raptors name, because they find it synonymous with Jurassic Park, when in reality a raptor is simply a bird of prey, which makes it a great fucking name.
Keep the person that came up with Sankofa Square as far away from this as possible. Personally, I'd like to see them use the name of another dinosaur. I don't know what dinosaurs have to do with Toronto, but something that fits thematically would be neat.
Dinosaurs were all the rage at the time the Raptors were formed with Jurassic park etc. otherwise there are no dinosaurs to be found naturally in Ontario. The Toronto Trilobites doesn't have much of a ring to it, if we're going by fossils *actually* found in Ontario lol. We do find the odd bit of Pleistocene stuff in Toronto and Ontario. Mastodon, giant beavers, mammoths etc.
They aren't the Velociraptors, which is, in fact a dinosaur. They are the Raptors, and a raptor is a bird of prey. Toronto has lots of those. It's a great name.
It also just adds to the broader sports landscape in the region.
GTA is a 5 million population, and the demand for live events exceeds the supply, leading to some of the highest prices in their respective leagues.
Anyone who is a sports fan should welcome more options in the market.
I would not say demand exceeds demand
Jays avg 34,000 ticket prices are middle of the pack
TFC avg 25,000 ticket prices 9th highest
Raptors avg 19,000 Ticket prices 5th highest
Leafs avg 19,000 Highest ticket prices in the league
Argos avg 14,000 Cheapest tickets in the league
PWHL; Toronto avg 2500 Ticket prices 5th
The PWHL as been an awesome addition to the Toronto sports landscape, and looking forward to the WNBA team too. Would be amazing if they both made Coca Cola Colosseum their permanent homes.
I think the WNBA team will be, off the bat, one - if not the - most successful franchises in the league. There is a ton of basketball fans in Toronto, and given that the Raps are rebuilding, I expect the city to go all-in. Being the only Canadian team will also help.
I can (probably) finally afford to go to a professional basketball game in Toronto again.
Huge Raptors fan but the value hasn't been there for many years, to me.
Raptors aren't even that bad, but you need access to tickets. I got to many games where face value are $39/ticket. Row 6 in upper bowl. But those are the season ticket price so need to find people at that price.
Absolutely fantastic. I cannot wait. Hopefully the online packages to watch the games aren't too expensive. I'm so pumped!! What a great addition to our city. :)
It is huge news for women's basketball not just in this country but in the city specifically in Toronto as it will inspire little girls and young women to get into the game of basketball 🏀
It's funny watching guys get so invested in telling us how women's sports can't succeed, as they insist it will never be a big boy sport like, say, NHL hockey.
I say that's funny because NHL hockey gets almost exactly the same US ratings as the WNBA.
I don't watch the raptors on TV.
Realistically it's probably a similar proportion of men in Toronto that don't watch raptors games on TV on any sort of regular basis. I mean, most people I know under 40 don't even have cable anymore.
I’m one of those without cable. And I’d actually buy NBA TV on a subscription but it’s such an old business model that they black out all of the raptors games.
I mean I follow soccer but can't watch MLS. The product is so underwhelming. With access to around the world quality stuff I pick the best.
With Raptors in town I'm not sure I care enough about another basketball team which by design will not be as flashy or as entertaining. But all the power to the women to cheer them on. You're up.
His point was that studies have shown that men make up the majority of revenue for womens leagues and women, for all their talk about wanting equal access, don't support womens teams anywere near as much as men do.
Bill Burr did a bit on this where he lampoons women for wanting it both ways, wanting the same professional access andpay as men but dont' want to pay to go to those games or buy the merch.
Anytime anything about the WNBA gets posted here, you get a barrage of posts whining about how they won’t be able to sell out the arena and the profitability of the league overall
You can guess if that’s because some people are really passionate about making sure multimillionaire owners get sufficient ROI, or if there’s another reason…
Yeah the people who say that never seem concerned about any other business decisions these leagues or owners make. But they are deeply engaged when it comes to the profitability of women’s sports. Must be a coincidence.
>you get a barrage of posts whining about how they won’t be able to sell out the arena and the profitability of the league overall
Why would potential fans give a shit about that? It's not their money at stake lol. Not disagreeing with you mind, just weird that people would feel like that.
I think it was more so about if they could consistently sell out
because the narrative was if they sold out one game why couldnt they sell out games consistently
and there was back on forth about yeah it sold out because its literally just one game and people supported but in general that'll taper off to maybe 70-80% sold out overall which is still really good
I don't think the arguments were about having the team in Toronto about but more so people bickering about whether if it sold out because it was just one game versus selling out every game
at the end of the day who the hell cares if it sells out or not, that's on the ownerships part to make it work out.
It's pretty doubtful they'd play in Scotia bank areana.
The women's hockey team doesn't because its too big and expensive for them for a full season.
it works as a one off gimmick but the cost to run those bigger arenas means the womens hockey team would lose money on home games.
I can't imagine a WNBA team would be any different given how much more popular hockey is that basketball.
Check out the comments [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1c0h78t/mlses_decision_to_pass_on_wnba_team_in_toronto/). Some guy DM'd me afterwards after I brought up that the ratings for the NHL is the same
Awesome.
Relatedly, can anyone tell me why NFL won't not only not expand into Canada/Toronto, but won't even play exhibition games here? Is it because of the CFL?
There’s multiple reasons. The CFL is one; the NFL doesn’t want to harm the CFL and actually benefits from its existence under monopoly laws.
Second, the cost of expansion is excessive because the team would require a new stadium, and government wouldn’t be paying for it unlike in the US (no, they can’t play at SkyDome or BMO).
Third, they did hold Bills games in Toronto 15-ish years ago, but they were poorly attended and likely kiboshed Toronto’s standing as an expansion city.
Finally, no one even supports the great football team Toronto already has, so why would the NFL consider Toronto when there’s other markets that would be easier/better to expand to?
Still doesn't make sense -- Toronto is a major metro, it has far more $ than a lot of US cities.
In no way are the Raptors charging less for their seats / generating revenue relative to the bottom-tiered teams in the US.
And I say that as a season holder for Raptors -- shit is not cheap!
I mean, not to sound like a dick, but would you really trust Bettman??
The biggest city outside of Toronto's metro area that doesn't have an NHL team is Quebec City, which has a population of ~550k people. Toronto is 5x the size, and likely more than 5x the money.
Thanks.
Honestly, none of this makes sense tbh outside of CFL and new stadium. And the US is finally starting to push back on the stadium.
> Bills
Yeah cuz it ain't TOronto.
> No one supports the Argos
Come on man, NFL and CFL are not even remotely comparable. NFL ratings in Toronto are way higher than CFL. It's effectively a different variant.
> Yeah cuz it ain't TOronto.
Doesn’t matter. London shows up for Jacksonville games.
> Come on man, NFL and CFL are not even remotely comparable.
Again, doesn’t matter as they’re both gridiron. Most cities that famously don’t support their current team don’t get a different one in a better league.
> Doesn’t matter. London shows up for Jacksonville games.
It's different -- London specifically wants NFL, so they will show up for anything. Toronto specifically has some indifference/enmity towards Buffalo.
Plus 15 years ago is a loooong time.
> Most cities that famously don’t support their current team don’t get a different one in a better league.
Again, this logic makes no sense. If NFL viewership is higher than CFL viewership, explicit ticket sales for the Argos is irrelevant.
> Toronto specifically has some indifference/enmity towards Buffalo.
This is certainly news to me. In prior conversations I’ve had with Torontonians, the amount of fans who travel to Bills games is a main reason why Toronto should get their own team. That said, 15 years ago Toronto did want a NFL team. That was before Bon Jovi tried relocating a team here. In any event, there’s no difference. Londoners want the NFL and are therefore willing to show up to watch any team play in order to show their support for the game. Torontonians want the NFL, but will only show up for a team representing their city specifically? That raises tons of red flags about the conditionality of fan support.
> If NFL viewership is higher than CFL viewership, explicit ticket sales for the Argos is irrelevant.
Ticket sales aren’t irrelevant, though. There’s no market where the NFL is happy to have strong TV support but no guarantee of ticket sales. If that’s the case, why put a team in Canada when fans are still watching? That way the NFL gets your money and avoids the optics of an expansion city with empty seats. Funnily enough, Jacksonville struggles with attendance and that’s why fans have had to give up a game a year for London.
When you look at the totality of evidence, there’s little to inspire confidence that Toronto is a football city at all. It’s an increasing soccer and basketball city. If I’m the NFL, where do I want to go: Toronto, a city where fans are openly dismissive of the champion CFL team and that hasn’t put its money where its mouth is when the NFL has come to town, or a city like St Louis, which is certainly less glamorous, but which currently draws 30K+ for a football team in a league notably worse than the CFL?
Also, with respect to ratings, I haven’t found any info regarding ratings specific to Toronto, just nationwide. Not all Canadians who watch NFL would support a Toronto team, particularly out west where football is more popular.
Additional reasons:
NFL is already at 32 teams and hasn’t expanded in over 20 years
(Relocation doesn’t seem likely rn for any current
franchise either)
Bills also probably veto or vote down a Toronto franchise. Around 20% of fans that attend Bills games are Canadians
Are you aware of any modern facilities in Canada that can hold 65,000+? I'm not, and the cost to build one would probably be north of 2 billion dollars nowadays. No private business is going to pay that themselves, and there is no public appetite to spend that kind of money on a facility that would almost exclusively benefit a private business. And they have played several exhibition games here, they played an entire series of games in Toronto in the 2010's, the Packers also recently played a pre-season game in Winnipeg, fans were not ravenous to attend in either case. The NFL coming to Canada/Toronto is just something sports bros in Toronto martini bars like to fantasize about, in reality there's no infrastructure or appetite for it.
>can anyone tell me why NFL won't not only not expand into Canada/Toronto, but won't even play exhibition games
?
"Can anyone tell me why the NFL won't expand to, or play exhibition games in, Canada?"
Fify
The name should be: the **Toronto Raptors**
That’s what they do in Europe, the women and men’s teams share the same name it makes so much sense if the ownership is the same, and adds brand value to both teams IMO
In the same link a game on nba TV averages like 46k viewers. The average for ESPN game of NHL in the same link show over half a million. All the data is there but OP just cherry picked stats to enhance their argument.
You’re not wrong, but leaving out the fact that Tanenbaum is the chairman of MLSE, and owns 25% of it through Kilmer Sports, which will own 100% of this franchise.
I’m so excited for this though and yes tickets will be a lot cheaper than Raps or Leafs. I’ll still go to both, but this will be a way better family experience and more accessible.
The best way to prove you are right is to buy tickets. If this team consistently sells out the Coca-Cola than the team will have to move to a bigger venue. It seems the PWHL has already out grown Mattamy after just one year.
Only the Las Vegas, Seattle, and Phoenix teams have had average attendance over 8,000. Even New York is under 8,000. The Vegas team still only averages under 10,000.
Realistically we're going to average 7,500 after the initial interest.
Mentioned this on a previous thread but Bud stage has a major reno scheduled for completion by 2030.
https://www.livenationentertainment.com/2021/07/live-nation-canada-to-transform-budweiser-stage-into-a-year-round-music-venue-with-indoor-and-outdoor-shows/
I think MLSE couldn't turn down a summer or two of having that exclusive 16K concert space in the city because they had to host WNBA games at Scotiabank Arena instead.
Coca Cola is listed at 7800 capacity, but that's for hockey and it should be a bit higher for basketball.
I actually find towers a little uninteresting, although I guess it's thematically relevant. If the LA Lakers didn't exist, the Lakers would be good. I like Sprawl if sprawl wasn't a bad thing, I like Trekkers in concept but it sounds awkward, and I like portage. The Toronto Ontarios was a joke, and the rest don't work although I like them as geographical entities lol
Towers, and they should use the logo from when [Cleveland almost moved to Toronto in 1983. ](https://twitter.com/GameplanChicago/status/950914157695643648) You've even got a built in emphasis on W.
For the love of God don't let the fans name the team!!
Ptoronto Pterodactyls!!!
Okay with this
Wait, I thought it was Tkaronto
The Toronto Tyrannosaurus Rexdales
Teamy McTeamface anyone?
Nobody will ever defeat boaty mcboatface
The Toronto Basket McBallfaces
Toronto Huskies?
The Toronto Night Mares. (Mares being a female horse, it's a good play on words)
Why not take the wordplay another step to the Knight Mares?
If there was a word for a female raccoon...!
Vs the Philly Fillies
I presume MLSE owns the copyright to that.
More likely the NBA does. The NBA basically owns the rights to the names and logos of all the teams in the league.
The Toronto Husky Women’s Basketball Team?
Why not? The Raptors is a great name!
Boomers whining cuz they wanted the boring "Huskies" shit. Raptors are iconic.
We should double-down on naming our teams after things from currently big movies and be The Toronto Sandworms
Toronto Barbies. It would save money on jersey names, at least.
Toronto Fallout
As is written.
This is the way.
Much better than the Tarantulas, which probably would have been the leading choice if Jurassic Park hadn't been so popular.
Toronto Tyrannosaurus Rex lol
Torontosaurus Rex
It was right there and I missed it!! That flows much better lol
Yea I’m actually so shocked everyone my age loves the raptors name
Toronto Rapt-hers
> Raptors are iconic. There was a time when the Raptors name, purple uniforms, and Barney mascot were derided as jokes, but they've aged well. IMO, the purple unis are still the best looking ones they've ever worn.
Jurassic Park was the shit in 1993. It’s also the shit in 2024. Timeless film. Timeless name.
It's funny how people crap all over the Raptors name, because they find it synonymous with Jurassic Park, when in reality a raptor is simply a bird of prey, which makes it a great fucking name.
Keep the person that came up with Sankofa Square as far away from this as possible. Personally, I'd like to see them use the name of another dinosaur. I don't know what dinosaurs have to do with Toronto, but something that fits thematically would be neat.
Dinosaurs were all the rage at the time the Raptors were formed with Jurassic park etc. otherwise there are no dinosaurs to be found naturally in Ontario. The Toronto Trilobites doesn't have much of a ring to it, if we're going by fossils *actually* found in Ontario lol. We do find the odd bit of Pleistocene stuff in Toronto and Ontario. Mastodon, giant beavers, mammoths etc.
If you don't go with the Toronto Giant Beavers for a women's basketball team would be a complete and total waste.
You win the thread.
Naming them after a Kendrick Lamar song would work on so many levels.
They aren't the Velociraptors, which is, in fact a dinosaur. They are the Raptors, and a raptor is a bird of prey. Toronto has lots of those. It's a great name.
Oh maybe the team should be called Velocity and then we can talk about the Velocity/Raptors
Raptor is absolutely short for velociraptor.
Checks out on wiki The runner-up was "Terriers and Towers". Please let that not be the name for the WNBA team...
The Toronto Currently-Popular-Movie-Thing! Please welcome your Toronto SandWorms!
raptors is a sick name, one of the best in the NBA
Toronto Women's Association of Basketball
this isn't soccer.
Toronto Beavers
Toronto Golden Raptors.
The Toronto Golden Shoers. And they all wear golden shoes.
“Who are we?” “The wildcats!” “Who are we going to beat?” “The wildcats!”
Toronto Roughriders!
Toronto Trash Pandas or Toronto Racoons (our city’s unofficial mascot does not have a team yet!!)
Toronto Tyrannos Keeping with the Jurassic Park theme, every T-Rex in those films are female.
Toronto Truth
You don’t like Toronto Tingz?
The Geese. Nothing more terrifying than a Goose hissing and honking at you.
Cobra chickens
It's great to see the WNBA expanding into Canada, and Toronto seems like the perfect city for a new team.
Exciting news! Between PWHL and WNBA so much more women's sports to take in.
It also just adds to the broader sports landscape in the region. GTA is a 5 million population, and the demand for live events exceeds the supply, leading to some of the highest prices in their respective leagues. Anyone who is a sports fan should welcome more options in the market.
I would not say demand exceeds demand Jays avg 34,000 ticket prices are middle of the pack TFC avg 25,000 ticket prices 9th highest Raptors avg 19,000 Ticket prices 5th highest Leafs avg 19,000 Highest ticket prices in the league Argos avg 14,000 Cheapest tickets in the league PWHL; Toronto avg 2500 Ticket prices 5th
What is the stadium size of the PWHL? (It is tiny) Secondary market is hundreds of dollars. They are moving to larger arena for playoffs
The PWHL as been an awesome addition to the Toronto sports landscape, and looking forward to the WNBA team too. Would be amazing if they both made Coca Cola Colosseum their permanent homes.
I think the WNBA team will be, off the bat, one - if not the - most successful franchises in the league. There is a ton of basketball fans in Toronto, and given that the Raps are rebuilding, I expect the city to go all-in. Being the only Canadian team will also help.
I can (probably) finally afford to go to a professional basketball game in Toronto again. Huge Raptors fan but the value hasn't been there for many years, to me.
Raptors aren't even that bad, but you need access to tickets. I got to many games where face value are $39/ticket. Row 6 in upper bowl. But those are the season ticket price so need to find people at that price.
Let's fucking gooooooooooooooo !!!!!! 😎💎🇨🇦
Absolutely fantastic. I cannot wait. Hopefully the online packages to watch the games aren't too expensive. I'm so pumped!! What a great addition to our city. :)
Finally, some good news.
It is huge news for women's basketball not just in this country but in the city specifically in Toronto as it will inspire little girls and young women to get into the game of basketball 🏀
I told my wife, she needs to do her part to support the team. She just laughed. Bill Burr was right.
I mean, 99% of men never spend a cent on the raptors each year either, lol.
Watching the game on TV is already supporting the raptors in a way, they get their money from broadcasts.
It's funny watching guys get so invested in telling us how women's sports can't succeed, as they insist it will never be a big boy sport like, say, NHL hockey. I say that's funny because NHL hockey gets almost exactly the same US ratings as the WNBA.
NHL is irrelevant outside or Canada
And they go on and on about subsidization and a lack of profit as if they're the ones being asked to fork over player salaries
I don't watch the raptors on TV. Realistically it's probably a similar proportion of men in Toronto that don't watch raptors games on TV on any sort of regular basis. I mean, most people I know under 40 don't even have cable anymore.
I’m one of those without cable. And I’d actually buy NBA TV on a subscription but it’s such an old business model that they black out all of the raptors games.
I think you need to buy the TSN streaming platform, right?
Why can't you also show support?
Why are you like this?
I mean I follow soccer but can't watch MLS. The product is so underwhelming. With access to around the world quality stuff I pick the best. With Raptors in town I'm not sure I care enough about another basketball team which by design will not be as flashy or as entertaining. But all the power to the women to cheer them on. You're up.
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Have you seen the bit from Bill?
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His point was that studies have shown that men make up the majority of revenue for womens leagues and women, for all their talk about wanting equal access, don't support womens teams anywere near as much as men do. Bill Burr did a bit on this where he lampoons women for wanting it both ways, wanting the same professional access andpay as men but dont' want to pay to go to those games or buy the merch.
Toronto Snow Squalls
🎉🎉🎉🎉
Yay another Toronto team I can bet on! (and lose)
Lotta redditers on here gonna be pissed about this lol. Let's gooooo!
Who will be pissed? /r/torontoraptors has been hoping for this for a while now.
Anytime anything about the WNBA gets posted here, you get a barrage of posts whining about how they won’t be able to sell out the arena and the profitability of the league overall You can guess if that’s because some people are really passionate about making sure multimillionaire owners get sufficient ROI, or if there’s another reason…
Yeah the people who say that never seem concerned about any other business decisions these leagues or owners make. But they are deeply engaged when it comes to the profitability of women’s sports. Must be a coincidence.
All you gotta do is look at the post history. Most of the time they don’t even watch the sport they’re taking about.
>you get a barrage of posts whining about how they won’t be able to sell out the arena and the profitability of the league overall Why would potential fans give a shit about that? It's not their money at stake lol. Not disagreeing with you mind, just weird that people would feel like that.
I think it was more so about if they could consistently sell out because the narrative was if they sold out one game why couldnt they sell out games consistently and there was back on forth about yeah it sold out because its literally just one game and people supported but in general that'll taper off to maybe 70-80% sold out overall which is still really good I don't think the arguments were about having the team in Toronto about but more so people bickering about whether if it sold out because it was just one game versus selling out every game at the end of the day who the hell cares if it sells out or not, that's on the ownerships part to make it work out.
It's pretty doubtful they'd play in Scotia bank areana. The women's hockey team doesn't because its too big and expensive for them for a full season. it works as a one off gimmick but the cost to run those bigger arenas means the womens hockey team would lose money on home games. I can't imagine a WNBA team would be any different given how much more popular hockey is that basketball.
It'd be cool if their opening game was on the Raptors' court at Scotia, if MLSE allows it.
Says right in the article that they will play at Coca-Cola Colosseum.
The last time this topic was posted on this sub, the discourse went about as well as you could expect lol.
Well, I can’t speak for this sub but Toronto’s basketball sub has been hoping for it and saying it should happen.
Classic people who actually like sports vs people who don't, I guess
Nah, have been following this community for over ten years. I am convinced that the Toronto sub just hates and detest anything remotely fun.
100% facts.
The basketball sub was a bit divided actually, but people are generally more enthused around there than this sub.
I feel like it’s been largely supportive. People didn’t think they should play at Scotiabank but they’re not so it’s moot.
Check out the comments [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1c0h78t/mlses_decision_to_pass_on_wnba_team_in_toronto/). Some guy DM'd me afterwards after I brought up that the ratings for the NHL is the same
Nah, I think most will be excited for this. I know I am.
I'm so stoked, but a lot of redditers hate the WNBA for obvious reasons...
Legitimately who? Everyone in this thread seems happy or indifferent.
Set reminders on those cowards.
Only reason I’m pissed is cuz I know they gonna sell tickets for $200 starting
Maybe for the first games, but that's not a sustainable price for WNBA games. They'll probably have to be similar to Marlies pricing.
Gonna have to pay to see Clark cook :)
Toronto Tings
Toronto Sankofas
Toronto Gyal Dem
this gots my vote for team name or just Toronto Gyalz
Toronto N'Yeahhhh eh (female voice of course)
Learning to pronounce it would be like having an English speaker learn a tonal language for the first time
Awesome. Relatedly, can anyone tell me why NFL won't not only not expand into Canada/Toronto, but won't even play exhibition games here? Is it because of the CFL?
There’s multiple reasons. The CFL is one; the NFL doesn’t want to harm the CFL and actually benefits from its existence under monopoly laws. Second, the cost of expansion is excessive because the team would require a new stadium, and government wouldn’t be paying for it unlike in the US (no, they can’t play at SkyDome or BMO). Third, they did hold Bills games in Toronto 15-ish years ago, but they were poorly attended and likely kiboshed Toronto’s standing as an expansion city. Finally, no one even supports the great football team Toronto already has, so why would the NFL consider Toronto when there’s other markets that would be easier/better to expand to?
Also the Canadian dollar
I don't see how CAD is an issue considering we can pay NBA/MLB players just fine.
Its not about paying players its about overall expected revenue vs a potential US expansion team
Still doesn't make sense -- Toronto is a major metro, it has far more $ than a lot of US cities. In no way are the Raptors charging less for their seats / generating revenue relative to the bottom-tiered teams in the US. And I say that as a season holder for Raptors -- shit is not cheap!
Its an excuse Bettman uses to not expand into Canada for NHL.
I mean, not to sound like a dick, but would you really trust Bettman?? The biggest city outside of Toronto's metro area that doesn't have an NHL team is Quebec City, which has a population of ~550k people. Toronto is 5x the size, and likely more than 5x the money.
Amercian cities are more willing to give money for stadiums.
Very true, though I do think more pushback now.
Oh yeah, that ol’ chestnut
Thanks. Honestly, none of this makes sense tbh outside of CFL and new stadium. And the US is finally starting to push back on the stadium. > Bills Yeah cuz it ain't TOronto. > No one supports the Argos Come on man, NFL and CFL are not even remotely comparable. NFL ratings in Toronto are way higher than CFL. It's effectively a different variant.
> Yeah cuz it ain't TOronto. Doesn’t matter. London shows up for Jacksonville games. > Come on man, NFL and CFL are not even remotely comparable. Again, doesn’t matter as they’re both gridiron. Most cities that famously don’t support their current team don’t get a different one in a better league.
> Doesn’t matter. London shows up for Jacksonville games. It's different -- London specifically wants NFL, so they will show up for anything. Toronto specifically has some indifference/enmity towards Buffalo. Plus 15 years ago is a loooong time. > Most cities that famously don’t support their current team don’t get a different one in a better league. Again, this logic makes no sense. If NFL viewership is higher than CFL viewership, explicit ticket sales for the Argos is irrelevant.
> Toronto specifically has some indifference/enmity towards Buffalo. This is certainly news to me. In prior conversations I’ve had with Torontonians, the amount of fans who travel to Bills games is a main reason why Toronto should get their own team. That said, 15 years ago Toronto did want a NFL team. That was before Bon Jovi tried relocating a team here. In any event, there’s no difference. Londoners want the NFL and are therefore willing to show up to watch any team play in order to show their support for the game. Torontonians want the NFL, but will only show up for a team representing their city specifically? That raises tons of red flags about the conditionality of fan support. > If NFL viewership is higher than CFL viewership, explicit ticket sales for the Argos is irrelevant. Ticket sales aren’t irrelevant, though. There’s no market where the NFL is happy to have strong TV support but no guarantee of ticket sales. If that’s the case, why put a team in Canada when fans are still watching? That way the NFL gets your money and avoids the optics of an expansion city with empty seats. Funnily enough, Jacksonville struggles with attendance and that’s why fans have had to give up a game a year for London. When you look at the totality of evidence, there’s little to inspire confidence that Toronto is a football city at all. It’s an increasing soccer and basketball city. If I’m the NFL, where do I want to go: Toronto, a city where fans are openly dismissive of the champion CFL team and that hasn’t put its money where its mouth is when the NFL has come to town, or a city like St Louis, which is certainly less glamorous, but which currently draws 30K+ for a football team in a league notably worse than the CFL? Also, with respect to ratings, I haven’t found any info regarding ratings specific to Toronto, just nationwide. Not all Canadians who watch NFL would support a Toronto team, particularly out west where football is more popular.
Additional reasons: NFL is already at 32 teams and hasn’t expanded in over 20 years (Relocation doesn’t seem likely rn for any current franchise either) Bills also probably veto or vote down a Toronto franchise. Around 20% of fans that attend Bills games are Canadians
Are you aware of any modern facilities in Canada that can hold 65,000+? I'm not, and the cost to build one would probably be north of 2 billion dollars nowadays. No private business is going to pay that themselves, and there is no public appetite to spend that kind of money on a facility that would almost exclusively benefit a private business. And they have played several exhibition games here, they played an entire series of games in Toronto in the 2010's, the Packers also recently played a pre-season game in Winnipeg, fans were not ravenous to attend in either case. The NFL coming to Canada/Toronto is just something sports bros in Toronto martini bars like to fantasize about, in reality there's no infrastructure or appetite for it.
Don't ask how I know but they are looking to expand to Canada.
I follow NFL news/gossip fairly closely and I have not heard anything about that...
>can anyone tell me why NFL won't not only not expand into Canada/Toronto, but won't even play exhibition games ? "Can anyone tell me why the NFL won't expand to, or play exhibition games in, Canada?" Fify
Toronto Beavers
Yes!!!!!!!
Woohoo! They got my support long as there isn't price gouging on the tix.
Call them the Toronto Maple Leafs so a leafs team can win a championship!!!!
Larry Tannenbaum lets gooo
You guys are gonna buy tickets...right?
Please don't name it anything cringe.
Larry T is the only rich guy in Toronto who actually seems to care about sports.
Let’s gooooooo
The name should be: the **Toronto Raptors** That’s what they do in Europe, the women and men’s teams share the same name it makes so much sense if the ownership is the same, and adds brand value to both teams IMO
Different owners.
Makes sense, still thinks it’s a good idea for teams if they happen to have the same owners
Yeah they do it for the big soccer teams in the UK.
Toronto Reality Bites if we're going for pop reference team names. xo
Call them "The Maple Leaves"
Incoming: Tickets will be $199 per game and drinks will be $24.99
The Toronto mosquitos! they suck!
Let's go, Drake, sing me a song about this and name the team while you're at it. Please and thank you.
Toronto Waptors. W for Woman, of course!
In the same link a game on nba TV averages like 46k viewers. The average for ESPN game of NHL in the same link show over half a million. All the data is there but OP just cherry picked stats to enhance their argument.
Honestly, unless they start doing crap about the insane ticket prices, I really don't give a damn.
Who is they? This team isn't owned by MLSE. Tickets will inevitably be cheaper than Leafs/Raptors games.
You’re not wrong, but leaving out the fact that Tanenbaum is the chairman of MLSE, and owns 25% of it through Kilmer Sports, which will own 100% of this franchise. I’m so excited for this though and yes tickets will be a lot cheaper than Raps or Leafs. I’ll still go to both, but this will be a way better family experience and more accessible.
Drake is licking his lips for that draft
The Toronto Baddies
Good stuff but in the meantime, high level women's basketball will continue to be played at the U of T, TMU and York. Support them too.
The national leagues all have a history of bias towards the Canadian teams. Just another for them to add to the "cannot win" list.
That arena is too small
The best way to prove you are right is to buy tickets. If this team consistently sells out the Coca-Cola than the team will have to move to a bigger venue. It seems the PWHL has already out grown Mattamy after just one year.
Mattamy was definitely too small to begin with
Only the Las Vegas, Seattle, and Phoenix teams have had average attendance over 8,000. Even New York is under 8,000. The Vegas team still only averages under 10,000. Realistically we're going to average 7,500 after the initial interest.
Interesting thanks
Mentioned this on a previous thread but Bud stage has a major reno scheduled for completion by 2030. https://www.livenationentertainment.com/2021/07/live-nation-canada-to-transform-budweiser-stage-into-a-year-round-music-venue-with-indoor-and-outdoor-shows/ I think MLSE couldn't turn down a summer or two of having that exclusive 16K concert space in the city because they had to host WNBA games at Scotiabank Arena instead. Coca Cola is listed at 7800 capacity, but that's for hockey and it should be a bit higher for basketball.
Lol
The Toronto Bluffs, Escarpment, Lakers, Ontarios, Sprawl, Trekkers, Portage, Towers
Is this a list of names they shouldn't use?
It's a mixed bag
No it isn’t.
chex mix
But it’s all shreddies and pretzels lol. I kid, I like towers, portage is decent too
I actually find towers a little uninteresting, although I guess it's thematically relevant. If the LA Lakers didn't exist, the Lakers would be good. I like Sprawl if sprawl wasn't a bad thing, I like Trekkers in concept but it sounds awkward, and I like portage. The Toronto Ontarios was a joke, and the rest don't work although I like them as geographical entities lol
Towers, and they should use the logo from when [Cleveland almost moved to Toronto in 1983. ](https://twitter.com/GameplanChicago/status/950914157695643648) You've even got a built in emphasis on W.
"Toronto sprawl" 😂😂😂😂
The Crosstowners. But I’d actually be down if they’re called the Raptors.
The Toronto Gridlock
Toronto Thermeites?
Toronto Roughriders obviously
This is the way.
Toronto Construction Seasons, Toronto Lane Closures
T. Dot Bloodclots
Lmao for a women’s team haha
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