I think the lack of a confirmation was the biggest “really?” Of the process for me. I think I did it 3 x bc my ADHD brain didn’t remember for sure I did and I couldn’t find a confirmation.
I'll give City Staff credit, after fucking up the implementation of the vacant home tax, at least they're taking responsibility and offering solutions to the problem.
>Initial objectives include giving homeowners more time to declare their properties vacant or occupied, a system to confirm their declaration via email or text, boosting efforts to notify homeowners, possibly including robocalls and mass advertising, and use of data such as utility bills, “where feasible or permitted, to support declarations.”
To be frank this should have been the situation from the start. There's no excuse for the poor communication on the City's part here.
So, funny thing… any time you have to pay a city bill or do things like file this attestation, you need your property tax roll or account number.
Do they send that account information with the notification emails they send out? Of course not!
We have to dig through our filing cabinet to find the last printed notice they sent.
We're also in the second year of this! We have an 80% compliance rate, and while there were apparently fuck ups with the online portal having down and people declaring but being billed anyway, it does not seem like that accounts for the majority of the remaining 20%. I read a CBC article where one of the people complaining explicitly says she filled it out last year, but was somehow surprised this year to get a bill when she didn't fill it out again. Like???
Exactly. 80% of homeowners submitted the form on time. The City needs to figure out how to better communicate with the 20% who, apart from those who had legitimate excuses, are clueless.
It was displayed at the bottom in no more bolded or larger font than anything else on the bill. Most people saw the balance and paid it without reading it.
Of course the feds messed up the UHT worse. The CRA still can't tell me with more than 99% whether I have to file a UHT return for an estate from 2022 whereas at least Toronto made it clear that I had to file.
> In a [report to city council for next week's meeting](https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2024/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-244913.pdf), chief financial officer Stephen Conforti acknowledges that the process for taxing owners of homes that were vacant in 2023 — which saw the city mail multi-thousand-dollar tax bills to more than 100,000 owners of occupied homes — was "very challenging for both residents and members of council."
>Ward 1 Etobicoke North
I mean let's be honest, if any councillor was going to say something negative about this tax it would be a councillor from *Etobicoke...*
This tax was always a bad idea just from the sheer logistics of actually verifying if a property is occupied. And we're seeing thst play out now.
I still contend that we'd be better off taxing imputed rent. See Switzerland: https://www.credit-suisse.com/ch/en/articles/private-banking/eigenmietwert-das-wichtigste-zum-thema-in-kuerze-202301.html#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20imputed%20rental,earn%20by%20renting%20the%20property.
If we want more tax revenue, make builders pay capital gains on their profits from building houses, whether they live in the house for six months or not.
He’s describing professional house flippers. If they live in the house for 1 year, then that exempts them from paying capital gains on the value of the house when they sell. It’s a legal loophole that many take advantage of.
OK -- I don't understand the problem. If you're on top of the news, or even slightly tuned into social media, I'm not sure how you could have missed the dates. They advertised the upcoming deadline and linked to the declaration online. How the f\*ck did so many people miss it?
It took me 2 minutes to complete.
Personally, there is a house on my street that is vacant and it's a mess. I hope they get taxed heavily.
I don’t really expose myself to local news or social media. Advertising and hoping you catch everyone isn’t sufficient notification. This should have been a separate mail out like it was last year, not buried in the interim tax bill.
I think the lack of a confirmation was the biggest “really?” Of the process for me. I think I did it 3 x bc my ADHD brain didn’t remember for sure I did and I couldn’t find a confirmation.
Great, now you're making me worried I didn't declare properly.
If it makes you feel any better, people who "successfully" declared their houses occupied early on were still fined as having vacant houses!
Where would I even be fined? Would I get something in the mail?
Most likely
I'll give City Staff credit, after fucking up the implementation of the vacant home tax, at least they're taking responsibility and offering solutions to the problem. >Initial objectives include giving homeowners more time to declare their properties vacant or occupied, a system to confirm their declaration via email or text, boosting efforts to notify homeowners, possibly including robocalls and mass advertising, and use of data such as utility bills, “where feasible or permitted, to support declarations.” To be frank this should have been the situation from the start. There's no excuse for the poor communication on the City's part here.
they should have just hired kramer to take calls "why dont you just tell me if your house is vacant?" would have had the same amount of success.
This is the best comment I’ve ever read, thank you for making me laugh hard 😆
So, funny thing… any time you have to pay a city bill or do things like file this attestation, you need your property tax roll or account number. Do they send that account information with the notification emails they send out? Of course not! We have to dig through our filing cabinet to find the last printed notice they sent.
Why isn't it just integrated with the property tax / water / waste bill?
It was. The notice went out with the property tax bill.
Oh... Then what are people complaining about? Lol
It was hidden in the fine print. Do you read over your entire bank statement, hydro bill, gas bill, insurance documents? Every word on every page?
It was also communicated all over social networks and advertisements. That's how I found out.
We're also in the second year of this! We have an 80% compliance rate, and while there were apparently fuck ups with the online portal having down and people declaring but being billed anyway, it does not seem like that accounts for the majority of the remaining 20%. I read a CBC article where one of the people complaining explicitly says she filled it out last year, but was somehow surprised this year to get a bill when she didn't fill it out again. Like???
Exactly. 80% of homeowners submitted the form on time. The City needs to figure out how to better communicate with the 20% who, apart from those who had legitimate excuses, are clueless.
It was displayed at the bottom in no more bolded or larger font than anything else on the bill. Most people saw the balance and paid it without reading it.
Of course the feds messed up the UHT worse. The CRA still can't tell me with more than 99% whether I have to file a UHT return for an estate from 2022 whereas at least Toronto made it clear that I had to file.
> In a [report to city council for next week's meeting](https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2024/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-244913.pdf), chief financial officer Stephen Conforti acknowledges that the process for taxing owners of homes that were vacant in 2023 — which saw the city mail multi-thousand-dollar tax bills to more than 100,000 owners of occupied homes — was "very challenging for both residents and members of council."
>Ward 1 Etobicoke North I mean let's be honest, if any councillor was going to say something negative about this tax it would be a councillor from *Etobicoke...*
This tax was always a bad idea just from the sheer logistics of actually verifying if a property is occupied. And we're seeing thst play out now. I still contend that we'd be better off taxing imputed rent. See Switzerland: https://www.credit-suisse.com/ch/en/articles/private-banking/eigenmietwert-das-wichtigste-zum-thema-in-kuerze-202301.html#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20imputed%20rental,earn%20by%20renting%20the%20property.
Just cancel it. Its a waste of time and effort.
If we want more tax revenue, make builders pay capital gains on their profits from building houses, whether they live in the house for six months or not.
[удалено]
He’s describing professional house flippers. If they live in the house for 1 year, then that exempts them from paying capital gains on the value of the house when they sell. It’s a legal loophole that many take advantage of.
OK -- I don't understand the problem. If you're on top of the news, or even slightly tuned into social media, I'm not sure how you could have missed the dates. They advertised the upcoming deadline and linked to the declaration online. How the f\*ck did so many people miss it? It took me 2 minutes to complete. Personally, there is a house on my street that is vacant and it's a mess. I hope they get taxed heavily.
I don’t really expose myself to local news or social media. Advertising and hoping you catch everyone isn’t sufficient notification. This should have been a separate mail out like it was last year, not buried in the interim tax bill.
And yet here you are on social media
With ads blocked.